Normally Podcast: Runaway Dems, Redistricting Games, and AI Gone Rogue

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: Normally Podcast: Runaway Dems, Redistricting Games, and AI Gone Rogue Release Date: August 7, 2025

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1. Introduction: Democrats Fleeing Texas to Prevent Redistricting

The episode kicks off with hosts Mary Kathryn Hill and Carol Markowitz addressing the controversial move of Texas Democrats leaving the state. Funded by prominent Democratic figures like Beto O'Rourke, these lawmakers relocated to Illinois to obstruct the Texas legislature's efforts to redraw electoral maps favorable to Republicans based on the 2020 census data.

Mary Kathryn Hill [00:29]: "Texas Democrats specifically have done this several times in the 2000s... they believe there's a fourth one in there somewhere."

Hill criticizes this tactic as "loser stuff," questioning whether these moves have genuinely improved Democrats' electoral prospects in Texas.

2. Gerrymandering: A Nationwide Issue

The conversation transitions to the broader topic of gerrymandering, emphasizing that both Democrats and Republicans engage in the practice to secure advantageous electoral outcomes. Hill remarks on the extent of Democratic gerrymandering in states like California, suggesting that the party has "tatted so much" that further manipulation is unnecessary.

Mary Kathryn Hill [02:56]: "They've tatted all the tatting is done. Like you've tatted all the tatting is done."

Carol Markowitz adds that while Republicans are now engaging in similar map-drawing strategies, the Democrats have historically perfected this approach, often leaving bipartisan groups to create maps that still favor one side.

3. The 2020 Census: Undercounting and Overcounting

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the 2020 U.S. Census, highlighting discrepancies in population counts across states. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, several red states experienced significant undercounts, while some blue states saw overcounts.

Mary Kathryn Hill [07:33]: "For the 2020 census, all states were not counted equally well for population numbers used to allocate political representation and federal funding over the next decade."

Hill points out that these inaccuracies can influence political power dynamics, with undercounts in red states potentially benefiting Republicans in the redistricting process. She also notes a conflicting report from the appointment forecast in 2023, which listed Illinois as an overcounted state.

4. Ghislaine Maxwell’s Prison Transfer and Its Implications

Shifting focus, the hosts discuss the recent transfer of Ghislaine Maxwell to a minimum-security prison, colloquially known as "Club Fed." They debate the appropriateness of her placement, considering her nonviolent offenses related to her association with Jeffrey Epstein.

Carol Markowitz [15:14]: "It's not about the deal for me. I just don't think somebody who's nonviolent should be in."

Hill expresses concern that such leniency might undermine the gravity of Maxwell's crimes and highlights the potential for political maneuvering within the Epstein case.

5. Epstein Case: Political and Social Repercussions

Hill and Markowitz delve into the ongoing political intrigue surrounding the Epstein case. They express skepticism about the Trump administration's handling of the situation, fearing that political motivations might overshadow genuine efforts to uncover the truth.

Mary Kathryn Hill [15:14]: "What I'm worried about is that the Trump administration... might go lenient too much on the one person who was convicted of hurting a bunch of people."

The hosts also note bipartisan efforts, such as the House Oversight Committee's subpoenas targeting figures like the Clintons, which they view as politically motivated attempts to discredit opponents rather than seeking justice.

6. Critique of Jim Acosta’s AI Segment on Gun Control

One of the most contentious topics covered is Jim Acosta’s use of an AI-created persona of a Parkland shooting victim to discuss gun control policies. Hill and Markowitz vehemently criticize this approach, arguing that it disrespects the memory of the victim and manipulates public emotion.

Carol Markowitz [22:59]: "It's not your son. There's not a teenager in the world who talks like that."

Hill further warns about the dangers of using AI to resurrect lost loved ones for political purposes, citing examples like Alex Ohanian’s AI video of his deceased mother. They argue that such practices can hinder genuine grief processing and manipulate public discourse.

Mary Kathryn Hill [24:20]: "I think we're going down a pretty dangerous road here, and it certainly shouldn't be used for public policy fights."

7. Final Thoughts: The Intersection of Politics and Technology

In concluding the episode, Hill and Markowitz reflect on the broader implications of their discussions. They emphasize the need for integrity in political strategies and caution against the misuse of technology in shaping public opinion and policy debates.

Mary Kathryn Hill [28:30]: "Just make your own argument. Yeah, like that would be a normal thing."

They advocate for authentic conversations and genuine policy discussions over manipulative tactics that leverage emotional manipulation through AI or strategic absenteeism from legislative duties.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mary Kathryn Hill [00:29]: "Texas Democrats specifically have done this several times in the 2000s... they believe there's a fourth one in there somewhere."
• Mary Kathryn Hill [02:56]: "They've tatted all the tatting is done. Like you've tatted all the tatting is done."
• Carol Markowitz [15:14]: "It's not about the deal for me. I just don't think somebody who's nonviolent should be in."
• Carol Markowitz [22:59]: "It's not your son. There's not a teenager in the world who talks like that."
• Mary Kathryn Hill [28:30]: "Just make your own argument. Yeah, like that would be a normal thing."

Conclusion

This episode of "Normally" by The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show offers a critical examination of current political maneuvers related to redistricting, the handling of high-profile legal cases, and the ethical use of AI in public discourse. Through incisive dialogue and pointed critiques, Mary Kathryn Hill and Carol Markowitz provide listeners with a thorough analysis of how these issues intersect with broader themes of political strategy and technological advancement.

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Note: This summary excludes non-content segments such as advertisements, intros, and outros, focusing solely on the substantive discussions between the hosts.

Transcript

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

This is an iHeart podcast. Hey, guys. We are back on normally, the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kathryn Hill.

[Carol Markowitz]

I'm Carol Markowitz. Hi, Mary Kathryn. How are you doing this week?

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

I'm good. Well, neither one of us is on vacation right now, but you know who is. You know who is who? Texas Democrats.

[Carol Markowitz]

I don't know what I thought you were gonna say.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

We're gonna. We're getting right into it. Yeah. No.

[Carol Markowitz]

No chit chat here at all.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

No. No.

[Carol Markowitz]

No plan.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Because it's not fun. Cause we're not on vacation. We're just. We're all business.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. So the Democrats, are they still in Chicago? Let's start with that.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

I believe they are still in Illinois, where they were flown on a private jet funded by Beto and other large sources of Democratic money. Beto o', Rourke, failed presidential and Senate candidate from Texas. They left the state because they want to deprive the Texas legislature of a quorum. Because the Texas legislature is trying to redistrict in such a way that would benefit Republicans based on 2020 census information, they are attempting to redraw the maps in Texas. They have the power to do this. Democrats fled because they don't want them to do it. It is somewhat unorthodox to do it at this point in the cycle, and that's what Democrats are complaining about. But, yeah, they're in Illinois, and there have been calls to arrest them from folks inside Texas. Of course, Illinois would have to extradite them or help, and I don't think that's happening. I'm not sure what their legal rights are in this situation. I'm not sure you can actually make an arrest.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

But they're definitely just not doing their jobs.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I saw that Gavin Newsom was really upset about the redistricting, and he was like, well, then we're gonna gerrymander also. And unfortunately, him. Democrats have already gerrymandered all the states where they have control to the fullest extent. So this is really just Republicans catching up with drawing zigzaggy lines on maps.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah, it's rich to hear this from Democrats. And different states do it different ways. Some states have a bipartisan group that decides what the maps look like. Often those bipartisan groups also create very partisan results. If you look at California, you will see that places where Democrats are totally in control. Even the New York Times has had to admit that they have gerrymandered so hard that they can't do anymore. Like, they keep saying it's tit for tat. And I'm like, y' all done tatted so much. You can't tat no more. Like you've tatted all the tatting is done.

[Carol Markowitz]

Take all that's left.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Exactly. Now you're just mad at the tit anyway, so.

[Carol Markowitz]

Mary Catherine.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

So, yeah, their tactic is to leave the state to not allow this. And I just hate this tactic.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

I think it's just loser stuff.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Texas Democrats specifically have done this several times in the 2000s. I looked it up last night. 2003 over redistricting, 2021 over voting rules, 2025 over redistricting. I believe there's a fourth one in there somewhere. Here's my question for Democrats. Has this improved your electoral prospects in the state of Texas during this time?

[Carol Markowitz]

It's crazy.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

What's really nuts is that they are being heralded as heroes right now. If you go to the CNN page or the MSNBC main page, they are the only game in town right now. They are the Democratic hope. They're the ones who are doing what all the other Democrats should be doing and fighting those terrible Republicans. But they're going to lose and that'll be the end of that story. So why would you want other people to emulate loser behavior?

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah, it's. And it's, I think, again, I don't think it sends the right message to your voters when you just leave town. And if Republicans doing it, it would be covered very differently. The issue is that Republicans don't actually use this tactic very often. I was able to find one example in Oregon of Republicans peacing out on the legislature. And I do not endorse it there. In fact, they passed a law that said if you do this and you have more than 10 unexcused absences from your job as a legislator, you can't run again. And I think that's probably something many states should consider. They did this in Wisconsin in 2011 when they were fighting the Democrats did when they were fighting Scott Walker. They've done it in Indiana. They've done it all over the place. And it's, it is praised to the hilt because Democrats opting out of the democratic process is the best way to save democracy, you see.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, it's, it's a, it's a very popular tactic on the Democratic side because they love a good show and I think that this provides them with that show. They love the spectacle of this kind of thing. And, yeah, this is why it's so beloved. So Governor Pritzker who? Governor of Illinois, which is a super gerrymandered state. We've talked about one of the most.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Gerrymandered states there is. Yes.

[Carol Markowitz]

He went on Stephen Colbert's show and Colbert actually called him on it. And we have that clip. Let's roll it.

[C]

Districts in Illinois. Take a look at this. Look at, look at 17 here. It does that. Then it comes up here and it sneaks around there and goes all the way up here and then goes right over there like that. And look at, look at, look at this one kind of goes whoop up there. It's like the stinger on a scorpion down here. Is this common for all states to do?

[D]

We handed it over to a kindergarten class and let them decide.

[C]

Okay. That's the non partisan group that does this, Abs.

[D]

That's our independent commission, you know, that is. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, look, so because all states to a certain extent do this. Why is what Texas doing particular egregious in this case?

[D]

Well, here, every 10 years we do a census in this country and right after the census we redraw districts in every state. But what the Republicans are trying to do in the Texas Republicans, frankly, at the behest of Donald Trump, are doing it middle decade. That is extraordinarily rare.

[C]

That's an important point because he, I think he literally called them or wrote them and said, hey, I need five seats.

[Carol Markowitz]

Let's be real here. What happened is in the last five years, Texas has had an influx of people. And so that's why they are. And those people came from blue states because of the COVID lockdowns and because of all the insanity in these blue states. So Texas has had this real, you know, giant kind of group of people come in. Look, you want to wait the 10 years, that's a fine argument to make. But Illinois making those like ridiculous districts, it's not because they got to wait 10 years and nobody complains about it. Nobody complains about it because it's a blue state.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah. By the way, Illinois is like 40 went 43% for Donald Trump. Their delegation in the Congress don't look like no 43% Republican, which is what they're claiming would be fair when it comes to them. Also, I'm so glad he brought up the census because this is NPR reporting. Okay.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

For the 2020 census, all states were not counted equally well for population numbers used to allocate political representation and federal funding over the next decade. According to who? Oh, the U.S. census Bureau, which surveyed itself and found out in its survey that There were significant net undercount rates in six states. What were those states? Arkansas, Florida. Oh, Illinois gets a little here. Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas. So almost all red states on the undercount. And then significant net overcount in eight states. Those states are Delaware blue, Hawaii blue, Massachusetts real blue, Minnesota blue, New York blue, Ohio red, Rhode island blue, and Utah red. So two red states to the rest of those.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I had. I have a similar story also from the appointment forecast from 2023, but I have Illinois as an overcount. I don't know why that would.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Oh, interesting.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

But at any rate, the rest of.

[Carol Markowitz]

These states line up with your state. So I don't know.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

So the issue is, on a moral level, if you're worried about this being deeply unfair because it doesn't reflect the population, that's not true.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

It does reflect the population. What didn't reflect the population was the unfairly conducted census. And I think that some of this is the temper tantrum of a party that knows the 2030 census is going to look very bad for them.

[Carol Markowitz]

So true that that is exactly what's happening here. They know what's coming and they're trying to head it off. But look, we all have eyes and we all read all the stories and, you know, there is. There are states that are growing and there are states that are not. And that's just the reality of the situation.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah. Fun fact, by the way. I grew up in one of arguably the most famous gerrymandered district in U.S. history.

[Carol Markowitz]

Really?

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

North Carolina's 12th district, which was found unconstitutional at the Supreme Court for the way in which it was drawn. It was, to be fair to those who drew it, it was part of the Voting Rights act requirement that the state have several majority minority districts. So my state was majority, or my district was a majority minority district drawn through black communities, all through North Carolina. But it went all the way from Charlotte to Durham along the I85 corridor, prompting one of the legislature legislators in North Carolina to say legendarily that if you drove a car down 85 with both of the doors open on each side, you would kill almost everyone in the district. And so that was found to violate the equal protection clause because it was too racially gerrymandered. The court actually said political gerrymandering is totally fine. That's a thing that happens in politics all the time. But be careful about how racially you are drawing these lines. So if you will, I put it on my Twitter account, the picture of this district as it was when I grew up and it is wild.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Are you surprised that Colbert even minorly made fun of Pritzker and his state for being so gerrymandered? Or was it actually just a cleanup on aisle five, letting his Democrat friend.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

I think it was letting him have a shot at that. At that question. But he doesn't have a good answer for it. And as I say, their independent commissions end up creating exactly what Democrats want them to. This is what happens in California as well, which would have to change its Constitution, by the way, to do what Gavin Newsom claims he's going to do.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

The state is already quite gerrymandered. There are quite quite a few fewer Republicans than would actually represent the voting public. This is part of politics. We can argue about it, but you shouldn't leave your post to argue about it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

That's what I think.

[Carol Markowitz]

You know, just to tag on to the Colbert question as we're going to air, there's a story that Howard Stern is not being resigned at Sirius. I do not find that surprising at all. I haven't heard about Howard Stern in years. I mean, since he was, like, washing, like, I don't even know his Amazon packages in 2023. So he's, you know, he kind of lost it during COVID and I haven't seen any of his clips go viral in years and years.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

So I think, yeah, it's the death knell when you become boring and predictable. And both Colbert and Howard Stern, who paint themselves as great rebels and truth tellers, became boring and predictable. So boring and predictable that it is a great shock to us that he asked one mildly interesting question of J.B. pritzker.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

So I don't know. Good luck to Dems. I don't think the ratchet can go much more. In fact, the Massachusetts governor was like, well, I suppose we'll have to gerrymander some more. And it's like, girl, you have zero Republicans in winning congressional seats. Zero.

[Carol Markowitz]

How much more can you gerrymander?

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

What are you going to gerrymander up with the tit? There's no chatting to be had. Oh, my gosh, I do love it when they're like, we're going to fight fire with fire. It's like, like, you haven't been doing that.

[Carol Markowitz]

You were the one who brought all the fire. So enjoy the heat.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yep.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're going to take a short break and come right back with our favorite topic, the Epstein case.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

You.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Well, we are back with more on normally Jelaine Maxwell, I think I'm saying her name right. She has been moved to a minimum security prison. And if you think this has toned down any of the conspiracy theories around Epstein, let me tell you, it has not. The New York Post writes, notorious sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell has quietly been moved to a cushy prison camp known as Club Fed as she tries to hash out a deal to divulge her sordid secrets about late pedophile ex Jeffrey Epstein. I am going to say something controversial here and this is really the issue where I am most squishy. I think that nonviolent offenders should be in kind of cushier prisons, right? And Club Fed is not cushy. It is better than medium or maximum security, obviously. But the whole point there is if you break any rules, you get sent to medium security right away. So everybody's on their best behavior. If you have people who are not violent and can live like that in a prison setting, they should be in that kind of setting.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

I have various thoughts on the Epstein thing. One of the things that I do worry about a little bit is that because this is not going away. And it's not going away because people in the base of the Trump coalition are genuinely interested in this and they think that this is the decoder ring for all corruption in elite circles, I don't think that it is, but they do. And I think there's reason to be suspicious of the information for sure. And because Democrats are seeing that this storyline is hurting Trump. The two have come together even on House Oversight Committee where Jamie Comer is saying, well, I'm going to subpoena a bunch of people who have this information, including the Clintons, including ags, who have been part of these deals of both parties. And Democrats and Republicans came together to agree to issue those subpoenas. So this is like an interesting political confluence. And what I'm worried about is that the Trump administration, by virtue of wanting to look like they're doing something and getting to the bottom of this, they go lenient too much on the one person who was convicted of hurting a bunch of people. Like, she's the one. Do I think there probably should have been more? Yes, but she's the one. And I don't want to be making some super sweet deal with her because politically you need to tell these other people more things about Epstein.

[Carol Markowitz]

Epstein, I'm with you on that part. It's not about the deal for me. It just, I don't think somebody who's nonviolent should be in.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

I don't totally disagree with that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Not, not, you know, not Jelane, not just anybody. And I don't think it should be part of the deal to be like, if you are a non violent offender, you get to be among other nonviolent offenders. I think that that should be standard. And man, it makes me feel like a lib to say that.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

But it's okay some times, you know.

[Carol Markowitz]

But basically libs to where I've gotten to where they were like 20 years ago and they've gone to. There shouldn't be prisons. So we're in different.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

That is the actual on camera opinion of Zoran Mandani is like, prisons, what are they for?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

We should not have them.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Who belongs in prison? Come on.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Only thought criminals should go to prison. That's how it works.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's funny that you say that, you know, it has aligned certain people on the right and certain people on the left. Will Chamberlain posted. Trump has been so relentless at solving the nation's problems in the last seven months that right wing commentators are reduced to making up new problems to complain about. I really enjoy that.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

A little bit of a point. I think the part that there's, I think there's two risks here for Republicans, one for Trump, there are people who genuinely will look at this and go, he was supposed to be my outsider.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

He was supposed to crack this wide open and he hasn't done what he needed to do. They made promises that they couldn't keep to some extent and they shouldn't have done that. The other problem is once you start trying to crack it wide open as Jamie Comer and Jamie Comer doesn't play like he gets, he gets new information. Once you start doing that in House oversight, you run the risk of looking like a party that is only looking backwards. And if I have a choice of what to look backwards on, it is the Biden family and the president, not this particular case.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's also kind of a tell that all the people on the right who are super, super into this also didn't like Trump's actions on Iran. Bit of a tell there that it's not really about justice for Epstein victims for them, and it's about finding a way to hurt Trump. I really, I think a lot of this is trying to split the MAGA movement and they can't do it via Trump's opinions on Israel or Iran. So they're trying to do this in this other way. As we go to air their meeting tonight at J.D. vance's house, the report is that senior administration officials plan to meet President Vice President J.D. vance's residence for dinner Wednesday night to discuss how to better handle the Epstein case. And they want to kind of all be on the same page, which they clearly haven't been. So I'm kind of glad that they're doing that. It's kind of weird that it took this long. I think that they should have been maybe on the same page before a lot of the internal fighting that became public. I'm really not a fan of. I don't like that there was a lot of it's either this person or me or whatever reported. And I wish they had been on the same page all along.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Also a rare whiff, I think, for Trump, who generally has a good sense of how these stories will play out. When he said stop talking about this.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

That's not the message on something where people have lost a bunch of public trust in public institutions with good reason. This is something that a lot of your supporters are invested in and that is the last thing that a conspiracy swirling story and its adherents need to hear from the White House on this. So I think that was a miss and they all may be corrected. Also, my controversial opinion is that the vice presidential residence greater than the White House. It is beautiful.

[Carol Markowitz]

It is beautiful.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

So enjoy dinner over there, guys.

[Carol Markowitz]

Invite us to dinner there, Vances.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yes, soon.

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, we're going to take another short break and come back with Jim Acosta. I know you missed him. So we're going to be talking about him because that's what Jim Acosta wants more than anything else. Be right back with more on Normally.

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[Mary Kathryn Hill]

All right, we are back on normally and we reluctantly agreed to talk about Jim Acosta, who now has a streaming show. He doesn't have a CNN gig anymore and to make that streaming show work, one of the things he has done is decided to have a segment on gun control with a victim of the Parkland shooting. This victim is a young man who died in that shooting, but whose parents have created an AI version of him to speak on public policy to people like Jim Acosta who are willing to entertain this. And I would say the reaction to this segment is pretty universally. Well, that's not good.

[Carol Markowitz]

Let's play the segment so people can hear it this insanity for themselves. Joaquin, I would like to know what your solution would be for gun violence.

[F]

Great question. I believe in a mix of stronger gun control laws, mental health support and community engagement. We need to create safe spaces for conversations and connections, making sure everyone feels seen and heard. It's about building a culture of kindness and understanding. What do you think about that?

[Carol Markowitz]

I think that's a great idea.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Just know.

[Carol Markowitz]

No, I mean, no. I get that his parents are grieving, but that is not their son. There's not a teenager in the world who talks like that. Not a single teenager ever. In the history of. Ever. I mean, he'd been. He. I think they said he would be 20.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

25.

[Carol Markowitz]

25 today.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

So, you know, even 25 year olds. What do you think about that? It's. It's very stilted. And it's not your son. It's not. And I feel bad for these parents, but this should not have been aired. This is grieving people Trying to process that grief. And Jim Acosta doing this is just absolutely disgusting to me.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah. The loss of this young man is a tragedy. And also, when you're a grieving parent or a grieving person, you do not have carte blanche to just be listened to for that reason forever. Right. I am happy to listen to policy concerns from the parents of this child, but this way that this is happening is grotesque. I think everyone, almost everyone reacted to it that way for a reason. There is no shortage. I don't know if you know, from literature and movies and art, there's a shortage of cautionary tales about reanimating the dead.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

To do things on this earth. And I think AI is getting a lot of people who are grieving and who are vulnerable to take steps they should not be taking.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

And I have more sympathy for those who are not putting them on Jim Acosta's show. But there are plenty of people, I'm sure, who grieve loved ones and who end up turning an AI chatbot into a version of them. And I think it's really dangerous for people's souls, for their lives, for moving on. And it's something you're seeing more and more of. There's Alex Ohanian, who's married to Selena, Selena Williams. And he lost his mom when he was young, and he dropped a picture of his mom and him into one of the AI machines, and it turned it into a video of him sort of nestling with his mom. He didn't have videos of her, and so he found this very moving. I think we're going down a pretty dangerous road here, and it certainly shouldn't be used for public policy fights. Like, you make your own argument to me.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Right. Don't reanimate your dead son. When this technology was first coming out, you know, before AI, when they, like, when you could upload, like, an old picture and kind of animate it. I uploaded a picture of my grandmother. I was very close with her, and, like, I just wanted to see her move. Yeah. And I uploaded this picture, and, you know, she kind of, like, smiled, and I was like, that's not her smile. It's just not. Yes, it is. The picture smiling. It's. It's as close as you can get. But that's not her. I could see in the eyes. It's not how she used to smile. Just not. Not her. I think people need to accept that they can't reanimate their dead relatives and that it's something that they have to just process and Live with. On the political side, I'll say that CNN loves to do this kind of thing. Even though he's not on CNN anymore. They actually famously, after Parkland had the town hall where these teenage victims of the shooting who were in the building that day, got to yell at Dana Lash, who was an NRA spokesperson, and Senator Marco Rubio, who was senator from Florida at the time. And I found that so hideously disgusting as well. They were using these kids to make the arguments for them. Actually, I would say that that whole thing spurred my book with Bethany Mandel, Stolen Youth. We talked about how that town hall, that's what turned other movements made. Made other movements use children because they realized that you can't yell back at children. You similarly can't yell back at AI, you know, of dead people. And I think that that's what they're realizing is that this is great for making the arguments that we want to make, but we don't have to make them. We can use kids. We can use dead kids and make these arguments for us.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah, they're looking for unassailable spokespeople. They're looking as. As the left often does. And it's not to say that the right doesn't do some of this as well, but the left has perfected it, which is to win an argument without having an argument.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

And say you're not allowed to speak. You're not allowed to say anything about Cindy Sheehan. Right. Remember, she was the very vocal anti war, code pink mom of a soldier who tragically lost his life during the war on terror. But you are allowed to talk about policy. You are allowed to disagree with Cindy Sheehan and honor the death of her son. At the same time, you are allowed to disagree with these parents about gun control. And I think the left is fooling itself on this. If Trump, second time around, has not taught them yet that teaching people to. Or convincing people to shut up is not the same as convincing them. I don't know what they're gonna. When they're gonna learn.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

People believe things and you can't just tell them to stop.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right. And you can't say even, you know, even the argument that this animated, you know, image is making. I believe people should be involved in the conversation. I believe in, you know, bringing everybody to the table. It's not really an argument. Like, if you're already putting words into the mouths of a dead AI image, you can maybe do a little bit better than that.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

Yeah, just. Just make your own argument. Yeah, like that would be a normal thing. I do think this is. This is yet another attempt to create a different kind of spokesperson who cannot be argued with.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

And we are invested in actually having the arguments, and that's what we should be invested in.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thanks for joining us on Normally Normale Ly airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us at Normally the Podcast. Thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

[Mary Kathryn Hill]

This is an I heart podcast.