Normally Podcast: Susie Wiles, JD Vance, and Media Meltdowns

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: "Normally Podcast: Susie Wiles, JD Vance, and Media Meltdowns"

Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Mary Kathryn Hamlin & Kal Penn
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show / iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this lively and sharply observant episode, Mary Kathryn Hamlin and Kal Penn dissect the biggest political media moment of the week: a revealing Vanity Fair profile on White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles. The conversation delves into the fallout from Wiles's candid remarks about major political figures—including Donald Trump, Vice President JD Vance, and others—analyzing both the substance of her comments and the media’s framing. The hosts also discuss the media’s treatment of conservative figures, the new revelations about the Mar-a-Lago raid, and end with reflections on the “6-7” sports meme as a bright spot of current culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Susie Wiles's Vanity Fair Interviews and Fallout

• Context:
  Susie Wiles, Trump’s White House Chief of Staff credited with wrangling his “large personality” and helping secure his 2024 election win, gave a series of eleven interviews to Vanity Fair’s reporter.
• Main Issue:
  The Vanity Fair piece captured Wiles’s off-the-cuff—and sometimes cutting—remarks about top officials, igniting a political and media firestorm.

Notable Takeaways:

• Wiles described Trump as having “the personality of an alcoholic” (even though he doesn’t drink), J.D. Vance as a “conspiracy theorist,” Elon Musk as “an avowed ketamine user,” and hit at others in Trump’s circle.
• Wiles claims her comments were taken out of context or cherrypicked for sensationalism.

“She said things that were...taken out of context...She referred to Trump as having a personality of an alcoholic, which is, you know, additionally crazy because he doesn’t drink.”
— Mary Kathryn Hamlin (05:00)

• The hosts speculate on why someone as seasoned as Wiles would be so candid. Was she planning an exit? Sending a signal to Trump? Or just too comfortable with the reporter?

Theories and Reaction:

• Media Trap:
  Susie Wiles—highly experienced—may have let her guard down with a “chummy” journalist, forgetting the inevitable negative framing of right-of-center figures.
• Possible Internal Messaging:
  Kal Penn hypothesizes that Wiles might be sending signals to Trump via the press if internal channels are being ignored.
• Rubio’s Portrayal:
  Marco Rubio, also mentioned, is praised as the “adult in every room,” in contrast to Vance.

Wiles's Response:

“The article published early this morning is a disingenuously framed hit piece on me and the finest president, White House staff and cabinet in history…”
— Mary Kathryn Hamlin reading Wiles’s statement (09:03)

• Wiles labels the piece an unfair attack, emphasizing omitted context and highlighting the Trump administration’s “unmatched leadership and vision.”

Media and Photo Treatment:

• Vanity Fair’s photo shoot is called out for making the subjects look bad, a tactic hosts say is reserved for conservatives.

“They don’t do this to Democrats. They just don’t.”
— Mary Kathryn Hamlin (09:52)

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2. JD Vance’s Handling of the “Conspiracy Theorist” Label

[12:58–14:19]

JD Vance directly addresses Wiles calling him a “conspiracy theorist”:

“Conspiracy theorist. Sometimes I am a conspiracy theorist, but I only believe in the conspiracy theories that are true… A conspiracy theory is just something that was true six months before the media admitted it.”
— JD Vance (12:58–14:19)

Hosts’ Analysis:

• Both hosts praise Vance’s self-deprecating, agile retort—turning a negative into a joke and flipping the narrative.
• Mary Kathryn notes Vance's close association with Tucker Carlson will lead to ongoing scrutiny about conspiracies; he’ll need to field such questions adeptly.

3. The Alcoholic Personality Comment—Framing and Context

[17:43–18:27]

Kal Penn provides the fuller context of Wiles's “alcoholic’s personality” remark:

“She attributes her ability to work for Mr. Trump to growing up with an alcoholic father. The sportscaster Pat Summerall. High functioning alcoholics… their personalities are exaggerated when they drink, she said. And so I’m a little bit of an expert in big personalities. While Mr. Trump does not drink, she said he has an alcoholic’s personality…”
— Kal Penn (17:43)

Host Reaction:

• Both acknowledge there was broader context, but caution that Wiles can’t simply walk back her comments after extensive interviews.

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4. Media Narratives—Right vs. Left

• The hosts reiterate a point: conservative figures should expect hostile media framing, both in words and imagery.
• Vanity Fair’s treatment is used to highlight broader media bias, referencing unfavorable photo selections and mocking tone.

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5. The Mar-a-Lago Raid and Media Hypocrisy

[21:50–28:19]

• New Evidence from Fox News Digital:
  FBI emails indicate internal resistance to the DOJ’s push to raid Mar-a-Lago—members questioned probable cause and suggested negotiation with Trump's lawyers.
• Host Reflection:
  Both hosts believe the aggressive legal action against Trump galvanized his supporters and contributed to his re-election momentum.

“I pinpoint that as the time where Trump was going to win reelection. I think this is what led to it… Suddenly everything that he said about how unfair he was treated and how law enforcement was used against him… came into focus.”
— Mary Kathryn Hamlin (23:58)

“It is all with the end—almost confessed on paper in writing—that the point is to be done with Donald Trump…”
— Kal Penn (25:12)

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6. A Lighter Note: The “6-7” Meme and Cultural Connection

[31:16–34:15]

• The show closes with a cheerful discussion of the “6-7” meme, which went viral at kids’ basketball games. Mary Kathryn recently wrote a defense of it in the Wall Street Journal. Both hosts praise it as an example of positive, modern monoculture—a simple, fun, communal act.

“It’s a meme about nothing. As I say in my piece.”
— Mary Kathryn Hamlin (33:19)

“We don’t have a monoculture anymore… Is six seven our monoculture? It might be…”
— Kal Penn (33:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 05:00 | “She referred to Trump as having a personality of an alcoholic, which is, you know, additionally crazy because he doesn’t drink.” | Mary Kathryn Hamlin | | 09:03 | “The article published early this morning is a disingenuously framed hit piece on me and the finest president...” | Mary Kathryn Hamlin (reading Wiles's statement) | | 09:52 | “They don’t do this to Democrats. They just don’t.” | Mary Kathryn Hamlin | | 12:58 | “Conspiracy theorist. Sometimes I am a conspiracy theorist, but I only believe in the conspiracy theories that are true... A conspiracy theory is just something that was true six months before the media admitted it.” | JD Vance | | 14:19 | “A stellar response, extremely clever, very on his toes.” | Mary Kathryn Hamlin | | 17:43 | “She attributes her ability to work for Mr. Trump to growing up with an alcoholic father... While Mr. Trump does not drink, she said he has, quote, an alcoholic’s personality...” | Kal Penn | | 23:58 | “I pinpoint that as the time where Trump was going to win reelection. I think this is what led to it... everything that he said about how unfair he was treated... came into focus for me and I think it did for a lot of people.” | Mary Kathryn Hamlin | | 33:19 | “It's a meme about nothing. As I say in my piece.” | Mary Kathryn Hamlin | | 33:57 | “We don’t have a monoculture anymore… Is six seven our monoculture? It might be…” | Kal Penn |

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:16] Show begins – Hosts check in, discuss daily life and the value of offline connections
• [04:19] Susie Wiles’s Vanity Fair interview—explosive quotes and reactions
• [12:58] JD Vance responds to “conspiracy theorist” label
• [17:43] Full context: “alcoholic’s personality” comment
• [21:50] Mar-a-Lago raid, new FBI revelations, and reflection
• [31:16] "6-7" meme, monoculture and youth culture positivity
• [34:15] Episode outro and sign-off

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Summary & Tone

The episode balances sharp political analysis and media criticism with irreverence and insight. The hosts mix humor, warmth, and pointed opinion, making the episode as enjoyable as it is informative. Whether analyzing media framing, internal political drama, or the meaning of memes, Mary Kathryn and Kal keep the conversation smart, relatable, and honest—perfect for listeners who want clarity, context, and a little fun in the chaos of current events.

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Transcript

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[Kal Penn]

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[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

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[Kal Penn]

Hey guys, we are back on normally the show with normal it takes for when the news gets weird.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

I am Mary Kathryn Hamlin and I'm Carol Markowitz. How are you Mary Kathryn I'm all.

[Kal Penn]

Right, you know, we're down to the wire here. We're getting really through.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

We really, really are. Can I tell you about. This is such a random little exchange I saw yesterday, but it made me feel better about the world. I was picking up food from a really popular restaurant near us, so it was like popping, buzzing. The bar is packed and as I'm waiting for my order, the bartender comes over to these two and I. I hate to describe it this way, but it's necessary, really. Nondescript, late 40s, early 50s women, and says, hey, those two men at the end of the bar want to send you drinks. And they were like, great, let's white wine. Their. Their normalcy about it, how like it was completely an unexpected thing that happens to them. It made me feel better about the world.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Still like having interactions at a random bar on a Tuesday night, you know, And. And I love it. It makes me remember that stuff exists outside of our.

[Kal Penn]

Yes, it is important to engage in that. I. I also went to a very. I went to a lovely Christmas themed dinner party last night hosted by a friend who I generally like, we've talked about. I'm not. I'm a nervous host. And she's very much not. She's just a natural host. It's like she's great at it. Everything looks amazing, everything tastes amazing. And I just marvel at it, particularly in mid December, that you could put that together. And I casually show up like, hey, thank you, I brought something, but you know what I'm saying.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah.

[Kal Penn]

So good. Good on those folks. I love it for allowing us to have real life interactions. May we be like them in the new year. P.S.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Everybody who's expecting a Hanukkah card from me, that'll be around early January.

[Kal Penn]

We'll look out for it. Mine got in the mail. My spur of the moment cards got in the mail.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

So we do our best here, Mary Kathryn. We do our best. We do.

[Kal Penn]

We do.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

So the only story in the world right now seems to be Susie Wiles gave a very expansive interview. Actually many, many interviews.

[Kal Penn]

Many interviews. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

To Vanity Fair. And they burned her bad.

[Kal Penn]

No. So Susie Wiles is the famously. The chief of staff of the White House. She famously wrangled Donald Trump and his large personality into winning the 2024 election. She is often credited with being a person that.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

She's a badass.

[Kal Penn]

Goes to. She's a badass. She is a serious and smart and tough person. And I'm very surprised.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

I am by this Shocked. It's like you're looking for the 3D chess here because you're like, what is going on? She said things that were. Yes, of course, taken out of context. She referred to Trump as having a personality of an alcoholic, which is, you know, additionally crazy because he doesn't drink. But you know, what's interesting is that the interview comes off as she is. She's definitely not negative on these people. Like, she calls Vance a conspiracy theorist. But it's all like, in passing, almost like she did get taken in by the interviewer and they became chummy and she let her guard down.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

But everybody has a hard time imagining that for whiles.

[Kal Penn]

So here's the condensed version, which, again, a lot of these snippets do have more context that make them less negative. But this is the New York Times summarizing. Mr. Trump, quote, has an alcoholics personality. Vice President J.D. vance, quote, has been a conspiracy theorist for a decade. And his conversion from Trump critic to ally was based, not on principle, but was, quote, sort of political.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

That one was tough. Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

Elon Musk is, quote, an avowed ketamine user and an odd, odd duck. I don't think he would.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah, everyone's like that one tracks.

[Kal Penn]

Yep. Russell Vogt, the budget director, is a right wing absolute zone. Amen. Yes. And Attorney General Pam Bondi, quote, completely whiffed in handling the Epstein files. You'll notice who's not mentioned in there.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Who'S not mentioned Marco Rubio.

[Kal Penn]

Who.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

She mentioned him briefly. She said that. Yeah, she said that his conversion to Trump was ideological as opposed to Vance's, who was political.

[Kal Penn]

Yes.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

So he shiv Vance a little bit.

[Kal Penn]

And he also. All of his quotes are basically normie throughout. He does not act a fool once during all of these interviews. Yeah, I have. There's a couple possible theories for what went down here. She sat for 11 interviews with a guy who writes for Vanity Fair, is also a historian of sorts. About.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

This is his beat.

[Kal Penn]

This is his beat about White House chiefs of staff. Vanity Fair does spend time with, I think every administration. I would guess that Biden's people didn't let them get nearly this, quote, close to them. There is a downside to access and now you are seeing it. So she did 11 interviews. What's interesting to me is like, so you could wonder, like, is she planning an exit? And she's just sort of. Yeah. Is she putting her. Putting her flag in the ground? But then this is not a retrospective interview.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right.

[Kal Penn]

These were happening as was real time was unfolding as crises were happening. So she's being interviewed while it's happening. I guess you could hypothesize that she's sending public shots because Trump is not listening to her privately in the way that she would wish.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

That's a possibility that doesn't end well.

[Kal Penn]

But okay, sometimes he does listen to media instead of inside the house. But it does feel to me like she just had a reporter friend, like. Right. Like she got close to this guy. He was around a lot. He's like a reality TV camera. He's just there and then you just get a little loose lipped and it.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Happens to people all the time. It just, it's shocking that it happened to her. She just seems like above that somehow. Like the kind of person that wouldn't get taken in by somebody being chummy. I don't know what other way to explain it, but you're right about Rubio and you know, we talk about, you and I were Rubio supporters in 2016. He is just the adult in every room and I love it. It's awesome. Also, as we're recording this, we're not going to get into it on the show, but Trump is delivering an address today and everybody's kind of guessing what he's talking about and a lot of jokes around like he's going to make Rubio president of Venezuela, you know, because Rubio is the reliable guy.

[Kal Penn]

Susie Wiles's statement on X was the article published early this morning is a disingenuously framed hit piece on me and the finest president, White House staff and cabinet in history. Significant context was disregarded and much of what I and others said about the team and the president was left out of the story. I assume after reading it, this was done to paint an overwhelmingly chaotic and negative narrative about the president and our team. The truth is the Trump White House has already accomplished more in 11 months than any other president has accomplished in eight years. And that is due to the unmatched leadership and vision of President Trump, for whom I have been honored to work better part of a decade. None of this will stop our relentless pursuit of making America great again. Here's the thing. Yes, it was done to paint an overwhelmingly chaotic negative narrative about the president and our team. But we all know that as right of center figures going into interviews, do we not?

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

We sure do. We really do. And you know beyond just what the words, when you give an interview to Vanity Fair, you can be sure they're going to use the worst pictures ever taken. I mean, Caroline Leavitt is A very attractive woman. And they did a close up of her face that shows every single pore on it. And it's like, they don't do this to Democrats. They just don't.

[Kal Penn]

It's actually sort of perfect for our meta age that there is a. And this part really is doing someone dirty. Like, they put together this photo shoot, which is the normal photo shoot for a Vanity Fair thing, but they basically parodied their own photo shoots. Because when you do it for a Democrat, it's like, oh, we're all very serious. We're all very powerful. We're sitting on the desk. They basically make a mockery of that self serious photo session because they don't believe that this administration should be treated seriously or get flattering photos.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right. Of course.

[Kal Penn]

Then they write a piece making fun of the people they called in to do their photo shoot.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kal Penn]

There's a whole piece talking about how, oh, they were uncomfortable sitting on the edge of the desk. You're the photographer.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

And now it. Again, once again, it is the job of the principal to know how they might be characterized in these situations. But I just. That part really did bug me. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

We're never going to be treated fairly.

[Kal Penn]

I mean, you called them in for a photo shoot. They're doing the thing you're telling them to do as the artiste here. And then you turn in portraits that are just like, obviously meant to trash everyone.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right.

[Kal Penn]

I wouldn't. I would note that Marco Rubio's were the least.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yes, he looks great.

[Kal Penn]

Problematic. Yeah. He's like. He's like looking out the window to the future. He is. He has done less dirty.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah. He did say in the piece something that he has said before, which is that if Vance is running, he's not going to run in 2028. If Vance is running. Of course, there's a long time between now and then. Lots of things can happen, you know, we'll see.

[Kal Penn]

It is interesting though, because she, she hit on all sorts of vulnerabilities and things that have been in the press. She talked about mistakes made during deportations.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Oh, yeah.

[Kal Penn]

She talked about how she basically, she was very open about, you know, I, I basically said, your retribution tour is 90 days long. And he was like, no, I want it to be longer.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah, I didn't. I did not. That was so bad. I was cringing so hard for all of that.

[Kal Penn]

Well, and here, here's the thing is she makes further points which are in the piece about how, yeah, you could see it as retribution, but these people actually did something wrong. And, and what he's trying to do is prevent them from doing wrong things to other people.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right, right.

[Kal Penn]

And some of that is legit. It's just the way that it, she is framing it is very problematic for the person she works for.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah, really odd and surprising. I will say that Vance was asked about it yesterday and he did what I think is a fantastic job of beating it back. Let's hear what he says and then discuss it.

[JD Vance]

Well, first of all, if, if, if Susie, like, I'll trust what you said. I haven't looked at the article. I of course have heard about it, but. Conspiracy theorist. Sometimes I am a conspiracy theorist, but I only believe in the conspiracy theories that are true. And by the way, Susie and I have joked in private and in public about that for a long time. For example, I believe believed in the crazy conspiracy theory back in 2020 that it was stupid to mask 3 year olds at the height of the COVID pandemic, that we should actually let them develop some language skills. You know, I believed in this crazy conspiracy theory that the media and the government were covering up the fact that Joe Biden was clearly unable to do the job.

[Farmer / Conservationist]

Auto.

[JD Vance]

And I believed in the conspiracy theory that Joe Biden was trying to throw his political opponents in jail rather than win an argument against his political opponent.

[Kal Penn]

So.

[JD Vance]

At least on some of these conspiracy theories, it turns out that a conspiracy theory is just something that was true six months before the media admitted it. And that's, that's my understanding, a stellar.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Response, extremely clever, very on his toes.

[Kal Penn]

Also, he 100% knew exactly what was in this article.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah, right. I'll just assume that I haven't read it yet. Yeah, right. So, you know, I think that that was a really fantastic response by him. Having said that, his bestie Tucker Carlson is, you know, pushing a lot of other conspiracy theories and because of their close relationship, because Tucker son works for him, because Vance goes out of his way to really stick up for Tucker, he's going to be asked things for the next four years like who did 9, 11, you know, questions similar to that. So I feel like that's going to be an issue for him, Susie, painting him as a conspiracy theorist. He did a, you know, again, great job beating that back for now. But you know, we're Egyptian planes following Erica Kirk. All these things that Tucker brings up are going to be at Vance's feet and he should start answering those.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah, this is a clever answer and a true answer. Right. That he's right a bunch of conspiracy theories did end up being true. And unfortunately, because so many people lied for so long about so many large things, that's it. The trust deficit is so bad that the Egyptian plain stories and the who did 911 gain ground because no one knows if they can trust official sources and official institutions. Right, Right. So they're like there's a cell phone from the left on many of these things where you create more conspiracy theorists. And it is our job, and a tough one to like draw lines and say this is what's real and this is what's not. So I think it's a clever, it's a way to answer this. I also think it reflects, you know, he says they joke around about this. I'm sure they do. I don't.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

I'm sure they do too. Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

JD Vance is so throughout this profile in Vanity Fair, frequently self deprecating, he knows exactly what the hits on him are and he turns them into jokes, which is the correct way to handle them. Agree. I have no doubt that her labeling of him as that is partly a joke. And there's a, there's a part right at the end where Vance is talking to the photographer and he says the New York Times characterizes it as the underlying tension came through when Mr. Vance posed for the magazine's photographer. I'll give you 100 bucks for every person you make look really shitty compared to me, Mr. Vance joked. And a thousand if it's Marco that's funny. It's just a joke.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

And it's a, it is a joke about a thing that is happening. And he's very good at sort of diffusing in that way. And to treat it so seriously, I think is, is a mistake and is often the mistake that that press makes with Trump and with others in this administration is like sometimes not every single thing that comes out of their mouth should be treated as a very serious statement about the future of the party. You know, he's just goofing in a photo shoot.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

So clearly a joke. And they're like, the tension, like there was no tension. Like, stop it, stop it.

[Kal Penn]

Also, I wanted to note two important things. One, that Wiles said if there were to be land strikes in Venezuela, if he were to authorize some activity on land, then you'd have to. Then it's war, then Congress would have to authorize. So I thought that was an interesting line laid down for the future should.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right. Such a. I'm not sure why she.

[Kal Penn]

Did that to him, but gonna be something that's gonna come back up and then I have it marked. I'll read out the whole alcoholic's personality part because I do think she was making a larger point. She attributes her ability to work for Mr. Trump to growing up with an alcoholic father. The sportscaster Pat Summerall. High functioning alcoholics. This is her high functioning alcoholics or alcoholics in general, their personalities are exaggerated when they drink, she said. And so I'm a little bit of an expert in big personalities. While Mr. Trump does not drink, the New York Times goes on, she said he has, quote, an alcoholic's personality with a, quote, a view that there's nothing he can't do. So there was a larger, sure, less problematic point she was making.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yes, yes.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah. But you can't deny that you said these things. You can't deny that you sat for the interviews. You can't run from this because it's all very frank.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right. And we all know they're going to take us out of context. Like we know what's going to happen. It's just the way it goes, as.

[Kal Penn]

My husband told me when my 4 year old clocked me the other day. And it's just starting to bruise a little bit. You can't leave yourself unprotected like that. You got to know the environment you're working in, folks. But yeah, and the funny thing is when you say this was designed to frame us as chaotic and problematic, you helped frame it that way.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

You did.

[Kal Penn]

The fact that you talked too much led to this conclusion.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

That's what happened.

[Kal Penn]

So that's, that's an interesting one.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

All right, we're going to take a short break and be right back with more on Normally.

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[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Max, how are USDA staff cuts and budget challenges affecting farmers with conservation?

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

I've saved my soil and I provide food for my community. I wouldn't have been able to do that without the NRCS programs. A lot of farmers are thinking that they're not able to farm next year. Crop prices are below cost of production and so these programs are what keep farmers in the business of farming, protect.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Conservation funding and staff that supports farmers paid for by Invest in Our Land.

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[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Hey, everyone, Ed Helms here.

[Kal Penn]

And hi, I'm Kal Penn and we're the hosts of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little call in Firth.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett. Here, listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Kal Penn]

All right, coming back on normally with talking about some former conspiracy theories. Actually JD Vance in that clip that we played made reference to the idea that perhaps some of those prosecutions of Donald Trump were not on the up and up and maybe were a little bit aggressive and political. And in fact, there is new evidence of that. From Fox News Digital, Brook Singman reports. This is FBI doubted probable cause for Mar A Lago raid but pushed forward amid pressure from Biden DOJ emails reveal.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

And these we're told that never happens.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah, this is the August 22, 2022 raid of Mar A Lago, which my position at the time was, wow, this is a lot. I feel like they could be having these conversations without sending, having a search warrant warrant, doing a raid and you know, the doesn't look great, doesn't feel good, doesn't. And I also thought there was evidence that he did have stuff he shouldn't have and that he should give it back. Right. Well, it turns out that the the FBI agreed with Me at the time saying very little has been developed related to who might be culpable for mishandling the documents. An FBI official serving as an Assistant Special Agent in charge wrote to another FBI official, quote from the interviews. WFO Washington Field Office, which is the regional office, has been drafting a search warrant affidavit related to these potential boxes at Mar A Lago, but has some concerns that the information is single source, has not been corroborated and may be dated. DOJ opines, however, that they meet the probable cause standard even as we continue down the path towards a search warrant. WFO believes that a reasonable conversation with the former president's attorney stating that FBI and DOJ are readying a search warrant and have developed information that there are more documents at Mar A Lago ought not to be discounted. And there's back and forth, back and forth, back and forth with folks at UFO trying to be professional and saying, I don't think this is the way. It doesn't seem like we have the dirt guys. And DOJ is like, nah, run with it.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right. All good here. Yeah. You know, I look back at that time and I pinpoint that as the time where Trump was going to win reelection. I think this is what led to it. I remember my own feelings. Like, it's hard to remember Donald Trump sort of out of the news, but that's where he was. He was in the background. I really didn't think he would run again. I had seen him at Mar A Lago and he seemed really happy and content. And I was like, I don't know. I think this guy's done. And then this happens. And I remember my own. They raided Melania's closet. Like, just suddenly like everything that he said about how unfair he was treated and how law enforcement was used against him. And just all of that came into really focus for me and I think it did for a lot of other people too. I think they, that people saw him as really being unfairly beaten up by the system and by the Democrats. So I, I think that this raid led directly to his reelection.

[Kal Penn]

I mean, it's Operation Crossfire Hurricane all over again, which is a bunch of politicals at the top of DOJ who have partisan ends are like, we don't like this guy.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah, this guy's bad, just don't like him.

[Kal Penn]

We're gonna end this guy and here's how we're gonna do it. And there's a combination of stretching evidence things, putting things in documentation that are not true, being extremely heavy handed and it is all with the end. Almost confessed on paper in writing.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

That the point is to be done with Donald Trump and you're letting your politics lead you to quote, unquote evidence. And again, I think there was real evidence that he, that he has stuff there he shouldn't have. Right. That we all knew that, that maybe arguably should have been other places just as Biden died. Right, right. Have the, you have the conversation. You don't do the raid, which is what FBI was saying throughout. And they just, in all these emails they're saying we're getting draft after draft after draft from doj. We're telling them that this is bad. DOJ is telling us they don't give a damn about the optics. It doesn't matter. I mean it's like exactly as you would imagine. It is how it went down in writing.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

That's right. It's crazy that it's all in there. I don't give a damn about optics is. It's really something. They wanted these optics.

[Kal Penn]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

They wanted to have a raid at his house. They wanted to make it seem like this man had done something that deserved this. There's no evidence at all that he did. Well.

[Kal Penn]

And then the FBI further stipulates, like we want to have in mind officer safety to the optics of the search and the desire to conduct this search in a professional and low key manner. There is a far better chance execution will go more smoothly and we may actually gain some measure of cooperation which could go some way to resolving the mishandling of classified record as investigation that is being conducted. I understand this request may not go well at doj. However, it is the FBI serving and executing the warrant and it will be our personnel who will have to deal with to reaction to that first contact.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

They did not want this.

[Kal Penn]

In, in bureaucratic speak, it's all them just begging doj, please don't, please don't, please can we not do this? Yeah. And you know, probable cause is actually pretty important.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

You really, I've heard about that. I think, I think that's what they say that probably probable cause actually matters.

[Kal Penn]

Well, and, and there are many ways that search warrants can be executed, many ways that these things can be done. There's a whole scale of like depending on cooperation, how they're done and they're arguing rightly, this is the former president, let's cooperate.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

Let's be low key. And Biden, DOJ is like, we will not be low key.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right. Because again, they wanted the headlines and that's what they got. And that's what led. You know, I'd say to Trump, I think you're right.

[Kal Penn]

I do think part of that was, you're right, that that turned in a way and made people go now, like raiding his house. This is, this is above and beyond. It's over the line. They're, they're making up charges in New York that they've never used before.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Right, right. All of that.

[Kal Penn]

And it made people more supportive of him rather than less.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

I definitely became more defensive of Donald Trump after that. And I know, I know I'm not alone in that.

[Kal Penn]

Well, you made good guys.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Good job. Good job. We'll be right back with more on normally and a light topic to let you head off into the holidays in peace.

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[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Max, how are USDA staff cuts and budget challenges affecting farmers?

[Farmer / Conservationist]

My dad and I both have a CSP contract, but staff can't check the fields to approve them for us to get paid. We're going through a very bad economic time. If we don't have the funds to support our conservation practices, we're going to see a major drop off and producers. I don't know guys, this is scary. I got a young family, a young business and have no idea what's going to happen.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

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[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Hey everyone, Ed Helms here and hi.

[Kal Penn]

I'm Kal Penn and we're the hosts of Irsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Pride Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little Colin Firth.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett. Here, listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

We are back on normally where you may have heard the six or seven times.

[Kal Penn]

Six, seven.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

And then you do the little. Do you know the little hand motion that goes with it?

[Kal Penn]

I do because my son, who is 3, almost 3, his cousins taught him. So he's been walking around the house doing it. Six, seven.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

So I wrote about six, seven in Wall Street Journal's new opinion newsletter. It's out. If you're listening to this on Thursday, it's out in yesterday's newsletter about let the kids have the 6, 7. Why are adults so annoyed at it? It's really. It almost makes no sense to me how irritated adults seem to be about this whole thing. And I write my defense of it. I say six, seven. Yes, it's annoying. Yes, it's dumb. Yes, it doesn't mean anything. But it's also an offline phenomenon which we say we want. Right? You can't sit alone in your room to a screen being like 6, 7.

[Kal Penn]

It's true. It's a communal activity now.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yes. It's something that brings these kids together. It's not divided by like the jocks do it or the nerds do it. Everybody does it. They have fun together. Something that connects them and that connection is something that we should approve of and foster even if it is a touch annoying.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah, I'm not that annoyed by it. And I feel like now that I'm know about it, surely it will be dead soon, right? That's the thing. Once we're on it, that's it Because I'm an old. But I do like seeing the videos of kids at basketball games waiting for the score to hit 6, 7 and they all explode. And you're right, you don't have to be like a jock to enjoy it. You don't have to be in any group for everyone. It originated with a skrilla song that was over overlaid on some tiktoks and of course that's how all these things are born these days. And then it got overlaid by on a basketball commentator commenting that someone was 6, 7 in a sort of a funny lilt that he said it and then it just evolved in this thing.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

Means it does mean absolutely nothing.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

It's a meme about nothing. As I say in my piece.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Well, did you see that Baylor women's basketball team game where the 6, 7 thing happened? I couldn't help but like, big smile. And I don't care about Alabama State or Baylor or women's basketball or any of it, but I write in the piece the score was 64, 24. Baylor sophomore goes to the free throw line for three shots and like she gets the first one, then she gets the second one and then she gets the third one and the whole place erupts. And it's so fun and, you know, just, you're in on a joke and it's great.

[Kal Penn]

It's also, we don't have a monoculture anymore, Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

I say that. Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

Is six seven our monoculture? It might be, but we got to take what we could get, guys.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Exactly. Right.

[Kal Penn]

We don't have like super bowl.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

The movies. Yeah. Or the shows that everybody watches or the music that people listen to. Yeah. We don't have any of that. And that. This is. This is great. Let the kids have it. Let the kids have it.

[Kal Penn]

Enjoy your six seven, guys.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Well, thank you for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

[Unrivaled Basketball Promo Voice]

Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off just January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Max, how are USDA staff cuts and budget challenges affecting farmers?

[Farmer / Conservationist]

My dad and I both have a CSP contract, but the staff can't check the fields to approve them for us to get paid. We're going through a very bad economic time. If we don't have the funds to support our conservation practices, we're gonna see a major drop off in producers. I don't know guys. This is scary. I got a young family, a young business and and have no idea what's going to happen.

[Podcast Host / Interviewer]

Protect conservation funding and staff that supports farmers paid for by Invest in Our.

[Kal Penn]

Land I use Shipt Same Day Delivery to stay connected with my sister during the holidays. She lives across the country. Shipt has tons of stores to order from. Groceries from Albertsons, crafts from Michaels, even pet supplies from petsmart. The list goes on. So when we have long distance movie nights, I turn to Shipt to get face mask masks, snacks and everything else we need delivered to her and to me same day. Download the app or visit shipt.com that's s h ipt.com stay cozy, stay home and save big online during Lowe's December deal Drops. Because honestly, why go anywhere when the deals come to you?

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[Kal Penn]

Lowe's is Gonna give you two free select tools from DeWalt, Craftsman or Cobalt when you buy a select battery or combo kit. Yep, two tools free. It's basically a holiday miracle. Plus rewards members get free standard shipping all month long. Yet another reason not to leave your couch. Kick back, click around, let the savings roll in. Shop New December deal drops on Lowes.com every week this month. Fresh deals, cozy vibes, zero effort.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

The holidays are back at Starbucks.

[Kal Penn]

So share the season with a Peppermint.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

Mocha, Starbucks Signature Espresso, Velvety mocha and.

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Cool peppermint notes topped with whipped cream.

[Mary Kathryn Hamlin]

And dark chocolate curls together is the best place to be at Starbucks.

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This is an iHeart podcast.

[Kal Penn]

Guaranteed Human.