Normally Podcast: Taylor Swift & Travis Kelce Engaged?! Plus Biden, Trump, and the Abbey Gate Debate

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Taylor Swift & Travis Kelce Engaged?! Plus Biden, Trump, and the Abbey Gate Debate
Date: August 28, 2025
Hosts: Mary Katharine Ham & Carol Markowitz
Duration: Key content covered between [02:19] and [36:47]

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Overview

In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham and Carol Markowitz guide listeners through a mix of heartfelt political discussion and lighter cultural updates. The episode moves seamlessly from a somber reflection on the anniversary of the Abbey Gate bombing in Afghanistan and the treatment of military families by Presidents Biden and Trump, to a sharp critique of current government economic moves, and finally ends on a pop culture high note with analysis and celebration of the Taylor Swift–Travis Kelce engagement.

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Main Themes and Segments

1. The Abbey Gate Anniversary & Honoring Military Families

[04:07]–[14:18]

Key Discussion Points:

• Anniversary of Abbey Gate Bombing: The hosts reflect on the bombing that killed 13 U.S. service members during the 2021 Afghanistan withdrawal.
• Trump’s Commemoration vs. Biden’s Silence:
  • Trump hosted the families of the "Abbey Gate 13" in the Oval Office and signed a proclamation honoring them.
  • The hosts highlight Biden’s failure to publicly honor the fallen or acknowledge the families, contrasting Trump’s direct engagement.
• J.D. Vance’s Statement in the Oval Office:
  • Vance’s words frame the occasion as a much-needed rectification of a wrong and emphasize remembrance and pride.

Notable Quotes:

• J.D. Vance on empathy and rectification:
  “We’re so honored to have you here… this is a rectification of a wrong. The president of the United States lost your loved ones through incompetence but never acknowledged it… we correct that wrong today." — J.D. Vance [05:17]
• Mary Katharine on Trump bringing families in:
  “He doesn’t have to bring them into the Oval Office. He doesn’t have to commemorate the loss of their loved ones… this is one that he does very well.” — Mary Katharine Ham [06:05]
• On Biden’s empathy, or lack thereof:
  “I felt like I was taking crazy pills during the Biden administration because I was like, this guy is the opposite of empathetic.” — Mary Katharine Ham [08:57]

Memorable Moment:

• Reading the names of the fallen ([12:25]): Jesse Kelly gives an emotionally charged recitation, followed by a reminder of Karim Nakoui's father, arrested during Biden’s last SOTU for protesting the neglect of the Abbey Gate 13.

Additional Insights:

• The segment criticizes media handling and political reactions, including failed acknowledgments, shifting blame, and a lack of accurate reporting and accountability from the Biden administration.
• Kamala Harris and Dana Bash are called out for politicizing or mishandling the families’ recognition.

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2. Good Trump / Bad Trump: Policy Critiques

[14:18]–[26:02]

Key Discussion Points:

• Government Investment in Intel:
  • The Biden and Trump administrations’ approach to subsidizing Intel is critiqued.
  • Trump administration’s move to acquire a government stake in Intel is likened to socialism/communism, with skepticism about whether this is truly “capitalism” as officials claim.
  • The hosts note the inconsistency of conservatives defending this when they'd criticize it if Biden did it.
• Flag Burning Executive Order:
  • Trump’s recent executive order banning flag burning is dissected.
  • The order is viewed as a political stunt, likely written to avoid violating the 1989 SCOTUS decision (Texas v. Johnson), but still criticized as “unwise use of executive power.”
• General Approach to Executive Orders:
  • Trump’s tendency to take the “shortest line” to action (“Ick, executive order!”) is criticized as counter to principled conservatism.

Notable Quotes:

• Carol Markowitz on government owning Intel:
  “That literally is socialism. That literally is communism.” [20:08]
• Mary Katharine on defense of inconsistency:
  “The thing to do would be to do a rescission package on those subsidies, instead of clawing back the subsidies with a US government stake…” [21:09]
• On flag burning:
  “I don’t like the idea that you use executive orders just to rile people up politically. I don’t think it’s a wise use of executive power.” — Mary Katharine Ham [24:13]

Memorable Moment:

• Consistent Criticism: The hosts emphasize their willingness to call out “bad Trump” moves despite being right-leaning, underlining the principle of consistency regardless of party.
  “You have to love everything Trump does, or you have to hate everything Trump does. And we try to walk the line on this show.” — Carol Markowitz [20:00]

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3. Culture Segment: Taylor Swift & Travis Kelce Engagement

[26:02]–[36:47]

Key Discussion Points:

• Cultural Importance of Swift–Kelce Engagement:
  • Analysis of public excitement, positive coverage, and the ‘vibe shift’ toward celebrating loving, public relationships.
  • Comparison to past celebrity relationships, public affection, and what that signals for culture.
  • Ben Shapiro’s hope that it will “promote marriage.”
• Role Model Dynamics:
  • The hosts highlight the healthy dynamic: Kelce isn’t threatened by Swift’s success, and both “celebrate each other for being successful doing their own thing.”
• Kids’ Hot Takes:
  • Mary Katharine’s daughters share their “nepo baby” anxieties over the future Swift-Kelce children in a charming audio clip.

Notable Quotes:

• Annika Rothstein’s viral take:
  “I’ve never listened to Taylor Swift, but in the last 18 hours I’ve watched 100 videos of her boyfriend loving her out loud… rarely been so happy for a complete stranger.” [32:41, quoted by Carol Markowitz]
• Mary Katharine on Kelsey/Swift success:
  “I think that’s partly why this has succeeded is that it is a departure from her old form of boyfriend who was an artist in her same field usually, which means they’re sort of not on purpose but naturally competing with each other for spotlight…” [33:58]
• Mary Katharine’s daughter:
  “I hope they don’t have a baby… because it would be the most nepo baby ever.” [35:36]

Memorable Moments:

• Clip of Mary Katharine’s daughters reacting ([35:08–35:49]): Their surprise and skepticism about “nepo babies” adds levity and authenticity.

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4. Rapid Hits: Mini Culture Wars & Brand Blunders

[30:44]–[32:21]

Key Discussion Points:

• Cracker Barrel Logo Backlash:
  • The brand’s short-lived redesign is lambasted as “out of touch” and possibly “stupid,” but not truly “woke.”
  • Discussion around conservative frustration at losing cultural icons.

Notable Quote:

• John Podhoretz (paraphrased by Mary Katharine):
  “If we can’t have the NFL, if we can’t have Cracker Barrel, what can we have? Cracker Barrel is right of center. Leave it alone.” [32:19]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Abbey Gate Discussion & Trump/Biden comparison: [04:07–14:18]
• Policy Critiques—Intel, Flag Burning: [18:24–26:02]
• Cracker Barrel Logo Controversy: [30:44–32:21]
• Taylor Swift & Travis Kelce Engagement: [32:21–36:47]
• Clip: Kids react to Swift/Kelce News: [35:08–35:49]

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Notable Quotes Highlight Reel

• “[Trump] does keep remembering [the military families]. Yes, is it a shot at Biden? Of course it is, but he doesn’t have to…"
  — Carol Markowitz [06:00]

• “That literally is socialism. That literally is communism.”
  — Carol Markowitz [20:08]

• “I don’t like the idea that you use executive orders just to rile people up politically.”
  — Mary Katharine Ham [24:13]

• “If we can’t have the NFL, if we can’t have Cracker Barrel, what can we have?”
  — John Podhoretz (as quoted) [32:19]

• “Her caption was, ‘your English teacher is gonna marry your gym teacher...’ Travis Kelce really does have a gym teacher vibe.”
  — Mary Katharine Ham [33:42]

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Tone Summary

• The episode’s tone balances somber respect (Abbey Gate segment) with sharp, often humorous critique (policy discussions), and then turns warm, even giddy, as it explores pop culture (Taylor Swift segment).
• Both hosts maintain a conversational, accessible, and at times irreverent style, especially when disagreeing with their own “side.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (hosted by Mary Katharine Ham and Carol Markowitz in this taping) is an engaging blend of hard-hitting political critique and lighter cultural commentary. The hosts are unafraid to challenge leaders on both sides, call out media and government failings, and celebrate moments of public affection and happiness, offering not just the headlines but a clear, honest take on why these moments matter.

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Transcript

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

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And now I've been trying out the Sonos Ace headphones and like all Sonos products, they perform as good as they look. Sleek design, crystal clear sound and a super comfortable fit. Check out the full [e-mail] hey guys, we are back on normally the show with normalish Takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kathryn Ham.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I am Carol Markowitz. How are you, Mary Kathryn?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I'm doing pretty good. I have a funny story from our weird job, sort of milieu.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

At my kids school, they're having a fundraising gala for the like an anniversary of the school's founding. And the woman who is running it is very organized, very together. And I run into her at church and school and I inevitably run into her when I'm a hot mess. Like I'm just disorganized, I'm late. I have maybe three children, maybe four children. We don't know. And it's always like, you can tell. She's always sort of scratching her head about me, like, what's this lady's deal? She messaged me yesterday and said, I've been asking around about who should emcee the gala and the only name I got was yours.

[Carol Markowitz]

And she's like, and I don't understand. And she said, tell me more about yourself.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

She said, I didn't know you had public speaking skills. And I was like, yeah, it's. I'm not joking. When it's maybe the only thing I do well. She has to be mystified. Like this woman, she's like, I was quite sure she had a learning disability, but she seems to have a real people job. So there you go. Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

That's.

[Carol Markowitz]

I like it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It's.

[Carol Markowitz]

You show that. That organized lady that you can do stuff too.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I can do one thing and I will very well though. Yeah. So I'm gonna be doing that, I guess.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love it. I hope we could see clips maybe.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yes. Well, I'll see what I can do. Well, that light story to lead us into a pretty serious story, which is that this week is the anniversary of the Abbey Gate bombing in Afghanistan, which happened upon the hasty withdrawal of all troops from Afghanistan under the Biden administration in 2021. And it was the anniversary of that bombing, and therefore the anniversary of the loss of 13 service members in that bombing, along with a lot of other civilians who were also at that gate for that bombing. Trump, as he is wont to do with this group of folks, honored the families of the Abygate 13 in the Oval Office on the anniversary with all of them surrounding the Resolute desk. And he said a few words about it. He signed a proclamation honoring them finally. And we'll get into that, but let's play a little clip of him asking JD Vance, the Vice President, to say a few words while in this room with all the families who, by the way, have the spotlight, not J.D. vance. The families behind Trump have the spotlight. He throws it to JD this is what Vance had to say. I think It's a great.

[Carol Markowitz]

J.D. do you want to say a couple of words, please?

[Jesse Kelly]

Oh, sir, I just echo what you said. We're so honored to have all of you here. I know that days like today can't make the hurt go away, but hopefully, four years on, we can start to remember with fondness and with a little bit of joy the people that were taken from us. We're so proud of you. We're so proud of your loved ones for giving their life for our country. And I think, importantly, today, this is a rectification of a wrong. The fact that the president of the United States lost your loved ones through incompetence, but never acknowledged it, and your government never actually put pen to paper to say, we're grateful for your sacrifice. We correct that wrong today, and we're going to keep on fighting to understand, as Pete said, what happened, so it never happens to another family again. But God love you all. God bless you. We're so thrilled to have you here in the People's Oval Office.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thanks.

[Cindy Crawford]

Thank you for having us.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And I don't think. I don't think they ever heard from Biden or anybody. Did they?

[Carol Markowitz]

You never speak. This is Trump at his best. He is actually very empathetic to these people. I think that he. The fact that he does keep remembering them. Yes. Is it a shot at Biden? Of course it is, but he doesn't have to. He doesn't have to bring them into the Oval Office. He doesn't have to commemorate the loss of their loved ones. He doesn't actually have to do any of this. And it's actually so surprising that the Biden administration whiffed this PR from the PR perspective so badly. And it's amazing that Trump, you know, he. He's very good at putting on any production. And I think that this is a one that he does very well, showing how much he cares about these military families.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. And they deserve it. And another. Another point on this. Trump did what Biden didn't do, because a lot of people do say he only does this because it's a shot at Biden. But Trump did the thing, remember, at his State of the Union, when he brought in the widow of a slain Navy seal, Karen Owens. Her husband was operator Senior Chief William Ryan Owens. He died in an operation that Trump was Commander in chief for. That is something that could have been a liability for him. And he brought her there to honor her husband's sacrifice and.

[Carol Markowitz]

Very good point. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Do you know what the response of the media was? That he was using her as a political prop.

[Carol Markowitz]

He can't win at all.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

He can't win. I've always been mad about that. I spoke up about it at the time and said, look, this. This woman is not a prop. She's a widow who wants to get the recognition for her husband that he deserves, just as the Abby Gates families wanted the recognition that their relatives deserve. And it was a long time coming. And I have written about this before, and it is one of the most shameful episodes of the Biden administration that this happened at all. But the way it was treated after actually made it worse. So a couple things. The Abigate 13 were never honored in a State of the Union speech, a joint session speech, until 2025, when Trump honored them by announcing the arrest of the man who masterminded this bombing. I don't know if you remember this, but he had cash Patel out on a on the tarmac accepting the transfer of the custody of this suspect. So that was the first time while Biden was president. The only speech he gave about the Afghanistan withdrawal, he termed it an extraordinary success. Oops. There were also several other service members, by the way, that died right before his State of the Unions that he never mentioned either. And then I was looking through the rest of it, and I couldn't believe re remembering how bad it got because Biden always gets credit for being the consoler in chief.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Except if nothing else, he's always seen as the hugging guy. Right? The guy who's hugging everyone.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

He's the empathizer. And I felt like I was taking crazy pills during the Biden administration because I was like, this guy is the opposite of empathetic. Remember when they did the dignified transfer at dover for the Abigate 13? He got in trouble for checking his watch. Jen Psaki, his former press secretary, later tried to airbrush that out of history in her book and got called on it and had to make a correction to her book because she said he didn't check his watch. He indeed did. They were made to wait hours before being greeted by the president. For years, he wouldn't take their calls or meetings. And you know who did? Donald Trump. Donald Trump took their calls, took their meetings. Joe Biden, also, you'll remember, repeatedly referred to himself as a man who had lost his son in Iraq, which he did not lose his son in Iraq.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's not what happened. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

He was not a Gold star father. His son served honorably but died of cancer outside of combat. That is different. I have a couple other things then. I don't know if you remember this. At the State of the Union in the last year of Biden's presidency, one of the fathers of One of the Abygate 13 showed up at the State of the Union and he admittedly disrupted the State of the Union by yelling Abby Gate and U.S. marine Corps. He was arrested. He was arrested and charged for doing that at the State of the Union. That's how bad it got. And one more for the media. Kamala accused Trump of politicizing the deaths of the Abbey gate 13 when he went to honor them at Arlington at the invitation of the 13 service members families.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And they turned it into a national news story. Dana Bash had Tulsi Gabbard on to answer for this on cnn. And Dana Bash, in mentioning it, said, you know, she had all these questions about protocol and whether this was legal and campaign finance, but what she didn't know is that it was the third anniversary of this bombing and of their death. She said, I think it happened about two years ago. And Gabbard was like, it's the third year anniversary because they don't even know that because it's a political liability for Biden. Biden decided he wasn't going to deal with it. And the press was like, roger that.

[Carol Markowitz]

And it, like you said, it had leaned into it like Trump did with his own military loss. We would be talking about something else entirely right now. And he didn't. And he ducked that political liability. And it was pretty disgraceful.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It's so disgraceful. And it's just, it is a terrible job of the commander in chief to face up to the losses that people who sacrifice for this country make. It's not easy.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

But one must do it. Even if the mission part of the job. Especially if the missions were ordered by you.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And I just, I find the neglect of this story and these families so gross. I am so glad that Trump has been the one to elevate them. Pete Hegseth also mentioned them at the Cabinet meeting yesterday. They were given a primetime spot at the RNC convention, which was one of the most moving parts of the convention. And just God bless all of them. I am so glad that they're finally getting the recognition that they deserve. Real quickly, it is very solemn, but I do want to have Jesse Kelly is going to read the the names.

[Jesse Kelly]

Of the thirteen fallen Marine Lance Corporal David L. Espinosa of Rio Bravo, Texas Marine Corps Sergeant Nicole LG 23 of Sacramento, California Marine Corps Staff Sergeant Darren T. Hoover of Salt Lake City Army Staff Sergeant Ryan C. Nous of Corton, Tennessee Marine Corps Corporal Hunter Lopez of Indio, California Marine Corps Lance Corporal Riley J. McCollum of Jackson, Wyoming Marine Corps Lance Corporal Dylan R. Merola of Rancho Cucamonga, California Marine Corps Lance Corporal Karim Nikao of Norco, California Marine Corps Sergeant Johnny Rosario Picardo of Lawrence, Massachusetts Marine Corps Corporal Umberto A. Sanchez of Longsport, Indiana Marine Corps Lance Corporal Jared M. Schmitz of St. Charles, Missouri Navy Hospital Corpsman Maxton W. Soviak of Berlin Heights, Ohio and Marine Corps Corporal Dagan W. Page of Omaha, Nebraska. Rest in peace Warriors.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It was Karim Nakoui's father who was the one who was arrested at Biden's last State of the Union, and luckily charges were dropped because somebody saw reason there. But that's how bad it got during the Biden administration.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, it's sad and I'm sad for these families that they've had to deal with this for so long. I hope that Trump's support gives them some comfort. Trump isn't always perfect, but he is pretty close to perfect on this.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

On this issue.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, we're going to take a short break. Actually, that segment we called it Good Trump and the next segment is called Bad Trump. Stick around on Normally where we will have fewer good things to say about Donald Trump in the next segment. Be right back.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Welcome back to Normally, where our first segment, we celebrated Trump, his accomplishments and the way that he treats military families. We really appreciate it and like that quite a bit. Now we're going to talk about some things we like a little bit less. I think we're going to kick it off with the government for some reason, getting a stake in a private company. Intel will now be partially owned by our federal government.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Why?

[Carol Markowitz]

Why is that happening?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

The simplest answer is that Trump finds the quickest and simplest path to whatever is the thing that he wants to do, slash solve. So a bunch of subsidies went out the door to intel in Biden.

[Carol Markowitz]

He's like, why shouldn't we get a piece of this?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Exactly. We deserve a piece of that action for the 11 billion or whatever it is. The problem is that as a private businessman, that would be the correct move, however. But, but as the head of state.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It is not. And Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, was trying to explain how this was capitalism at yesterday's meeting because a lot of people had said, hmm, seizing the means of production doesn't seem very capitalized.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sort of a big deal. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And Lutnick was like, no, no, no, this isn't socialism. This is capitalism. Because we're getting a better deal for taxpayers.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Then these subsidies, which were just giveaways. Now we have a stake. Okay, I understand that argument. And also if you're the government, it's not capitalism.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. It's like, it's not. It's just really basic. And, you know, I, again, it's easy to understand what they're saying. And a lot of the defense of Trump is like, well, we were getting nothing from, from these companies under all these other administrations. At least Trump is getting us something, which, like you said, is fair. But I just don't want the government to be in the business of owning pieces of private companies. That literally is socialism. That literally is communism. You know, I just think that we're heading down a real bad path. And I'm concerned because I feel like there's this and, you know, you and I have talked about this and I wrote about it during the first Trump administration, but there is this sense like you have to love everything Trump does or you have to hate everything Trump does. And we try to walk the line on this show and talk about the good things that we think and the bad things that we think. The thing is that all the people who are lining up to say that this is okay and this is normal would lose their minds if the Biden administration did this. And if that's the case, you have to kind of stay consistent and you can say you change your mind about the whole, I don't know, socialism thing, but be consistent and admit that you know what you really think here. And I urge other conservatives to do that.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. It's also, ideologically, I don't like it, but I think it's bad economic policy to have the government have a real motivation to make one company profitable over another. Now, you can tell me, and you'd be correct, that the left has done this forever. Like, it's like jawboning on steroids. We're going to give money to these guys and not to these guys picking winners and losers. The thing that we've always said we don't want them to do. The thing to do would be to do a rescission, rescission package on those subsidies instead of clawing back the subsidies with a US Government stake in a private company whose president, by the way, I think Trump said like three weeks ago should be fired because of his ties to the ccp.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Like, wait, now we're buds? Now we're just going to patch that right up?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

They're also talking about wanting stakes in other companies. By the way, if you're an American chip maker, and I believe there is one, if you're other chip makers that do work in the United States, how does this work out for you?

[Carol Markowitz]

Poorly.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Because it works out poorly.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It's going to be the one that the government is going to cut all the brakes for, is going to let them get away with whatever regulation violations they make because they have a stake in it now.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right? Yeah. This can't go on. I don't know how this is going to unfold itself. But this obviously can't happen, by the.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Way, on another tech, can I say, on another tech related violation of the law. TikTok should not exist on American app.

[Carol Markowitz]

Hell, yeah. Right now that is like, absolutely.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

The law said it. The law said it. The SCOTUS said.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, exactly. And look, I don't know. I don't know how the Trump administration is going to be. Have to have this enforced. You know, all remains to be seen. But, yeah, I don't like any of it. And speaking of things we don't like, yesterday Donald Trump signed an executive order banning flag burning. Neither you nor I are fans of the burning of the American flag, but we both think that this is a mistake.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. Here's the thing. The executive order, I think, is written in such a way as to steer clear of the famous mid-80s SCOTUS decision on this, in which Scalia was the conservative crossover who said, hey, I would put everyone in jail who burns American flag if I could, but I'm not in charge. The Constitution's in charge. And this is speech. And this piece of cloth is not given special privilege in this country beyond that, all the other stuff that we prize as speech. So I think it's a stunt. I think it's written to steer clear of that SCOTUS decision. Nonetheless, it will probably go through the courts, because you can't just, like, executive order anything you want to do.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I think it is bait to the left, where he just wants them to be out burning as many American flags as possible.

[Carol Markowitz]

Easy call on that. Yeah. Then they're gonna fall for it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

They will.

[Carol Markowitz]

They're all going to fall for it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And this is Trump again, finding the shortest line between, like, the thing he wants to do and himself. He's like, oh, I'll just. Executive order. I don't like flag burning. Ick. I want these guys to do it and make fools of themselves. Here we go. Right. But that doesn't mean it's advisable. That doesn't mean it's legal. It doesn't mean. I don't like the idea that you use executive orders just to rile people up politically. I don't think it's a wise use of executive power. Right again. Our friends on the right will say the left has been doing this all along. Agreed.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

The thing to do is, is not always to do exactly what the left has done, whether it's Obama's pen and phone or Biden's auto pen. And definitely not the phone, because he can't. He's not capable of talking on the phone. Like, I don't want that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Well, we talked about last episode where it's hard to find the line and it's hard to hear the left say, you know, Trump shouldn't be doing this kind of stuff by executive order. And it's like, you guys did lots of stuff by executive order. You made this happen. So I really don't know again, what they can do to make Trump stop and not behave the way that they've behaved, but they're going to fall for the trap that he has so masterfully said for them.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yes. Although can I say this is like one of my least conservative opinions, probably. No, it is a conservative opinion, but on this one it's not. It's like, I have sympathy for the idea that when someone threatens to take a right from you, even if that right is despicable when expressed, that people want to take a stand and go, like, you can't take this from me. Like, that's, that's what I did in 2020 when they were like, you can't go to church or have a barbecue. I was like, I'm having people over to my house. Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

People.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I might not post about it quite as loudly as I used to.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

But I understand the impulse. And yet it is going to get them in huge political trouble.

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, we'll be right back with our last segment where we'll stop talking about Trump and talk about, hey, Taylor Swift, why not?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

We gotta do it.

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In the shadows in flames primals will fall. And from the blood and ash new gods will rise. Poppy was never meant to awaken and consequences are devastating. Stirring ancient powers from their slumber, transforming Castile and Kirin in ways the fates couldn't foresee. The great conspirator has returned to stop the primal of death. The gods have awakened harboring blood soaked secrets. And every choice can undo everything. The primal of blood in both Perfect for fans of Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros. Available September 23rd. Pre order today.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Alrighty. We have to get to the. Not just the Taylor Swift of it all. That's we're gonna. That's our finale. But the Cracker Barrel. Cracker Barrel, beloved roadside stop for homemade vittles.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I love those vittles especially. Got into a big old controversy this week because they revamped their logo and importantly their dining rooms to be much more minimalist, much more corporate feeling, much more modern than they had been in the past. And there was a backlash and then there was a cultural discussion and it kind of got all out of hand. But they have said after a week of this, basically, never mind, we're going back to the old guy sitting next to the barrel. We like him. But it became a whole to do with people saying this is the wokest agenda. And I was kind of like, no, I think it's just a stupid thing. Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

I think it's just corporate stupidity. Really. Yeah, yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

But is it, but is it corporate stupidity? Partly because they're so incredibly out of touch in C suites with normal people.

[Carol Markowitz]

Totally. Yes. That's what it is. Is that wokeness? Maybe. I mean, I've, I've seen a lot of conservatives point out that they have done woke stuff over the years, but I did not associate it with wokeness. I just associate it with fearful and like you said, out of touch C suite professionals. Yeah, but the real.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, there's a, there's a point there. I think John Podhoritz actually made a great point where he said, I think the cultural backlash here is for conservatives. If we can't have the NFL, if we can't have Cracker Barrel, what can we have?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. What do we get?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Cracker Barrel is right of center. Okay. It's for the hometown people. Leave it alone.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. All right, well, let's get to the biggest story of the week, obviously. And now I say that in jest. Although obviously I've got like every single news outlet in the whole world Sent me an alert yesterday including like the New York Times and other big outlets that Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are engaged. People are very excited about it and I think that's a nice thing. Ben Shapiro says that he hopes it promotes marriage. My friend Annika Rothstein, her account on X is at Truth and Fiction she posted. I've never listened to Taylor Swift, but In the last 18 hours I've watched 100 videos of her boyfriend loving her out loud and gushing over what happens to a woman when she feels safe in a relationship. Rarely been so happy for a complete stranger. I love that. That really is the vibe shift with this whole Taylor story. Her previous men hid her from the public and culturally, you know, not, not related to Taylor Swift, but showing affection became seen as cringe and all of that. I hope we go back to the equivalent of the boomboxes outside of windows, which is what Taylor described Travis, you know, basically doing to her and gushing over your girlfriend or wife or boyfriend or husband. Love openly. Let Taylor lead the way on that.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It's sweet. I want them to succeed. I'm excited for them. Her caption was, your English teacher is gonna marry your gym teacher. And like Travis Kelce really does have a gym teacher vibe. That's a really good. She really does.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. And she really does have an English teacher vibe. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I think that's partly why this has succeeded is that it is a departure from her old form of boyfriend who was an artist in her same field usually, which means they're sort of not on purpose but naturally competing with each other for spotlight in some situations. And the thing I like about Kelsey and some of the more red pilled right leaning commentators have been like, she needs to submit to her husband. And that's what this looks like. And the great thing about Kelsey is that he's so clearly not threatened by her success. He's, he's a modern day gladiator. He, he performs feats of manly courage in public when super bowl rings. Taylor can't do that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

She does a different thing. And they both celebrate each other for being successful doing their own thing. And I like it. And I hope they have a bunch of, of healthy, extremely tall babies. And then the weirdos from the left say, you're being a weird natalist. And I'm like, I just wish the couple well. That's all I do.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, that's it. You know, I believe we have a clip of your daughters talking about this. Let's play that.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

This is one of my daughters has a Slightly different take. This is me breaking the news to them after school yesterday. Taylor Swift is engaged to Travis Kelce. What? What? What? What? What? How do you know that? She posted it on Instagram.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, that makes sense.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

She's gonna get married.

[Carol Markowitz]

Finally. Finally.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

We don't have a baby though.

[Carol Markowitz]

What? Why?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Why?

[Carol Markowitz]

That would be adorable. Well, because it would be like the.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Most nipple baby ever. So she says. We laughed over. But she says, I hope they don't have a baby. And I said, why? And she said, because it will be the most nepo baby ever, which let.

[Carol Markowitz]

Them have their nepo babies.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

She's right. And also bring it on.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

We're never going to hear the end of this, by the way. The wedding coverage, the everything.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, yeah, we're totally in for it. And then they're going to have like baby after baby.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Hopefully.

[Carol Markowitz]

Hopefully. And yeah, I think we're in for a decade of Taylor and Trav and their life. But you know, again, if it's makes people realize that love is good and marriage is good and family is good, have at it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. And I love, by the way, the Kelsey family for being like sort of weirdly.

[Carol Markowitz]

They're adorable.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

They're weirdly normal for as famous as they have gotten.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, absolutely. I love their normal. Well, thank you for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us at normallythepod. Thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

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New episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast.

[Audiobook/Game Trailer Narrator]

In the shadows and flames, primals will fall. And from the blood and ash, new gods will rise. Poppy was never meant to awaken. And consequences are devastating. Stirring ancient powers from their slumber, transforming Kazakhstan, stealing Kieran in ways the fates couldn't foresee. The great conspirator has returned to stop the primal of death. The gods have awakened, harboring blood soaked secrets. And every choice can undo everything. The primal of blood in both. Perfect for fans of Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros. Available September 23rd pre order today.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

This is an I Heart podcast.