Normally Podcast: The Democrats Look To Take Out Chuck Schumer

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Normally Podcast: The Democrats Look To Take Out Chuck Schumer"

Episode Title: Normally Podcast: The Democrats Look To Take Out Chuck Schumer
Release Date: March 18, 2025
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Host/Authors: Mary Kathryn Ham and Carol Markowitz
Description:
Mary Kathryn Ham and Carol Markowitz delve into the pressing political maneuvers within the Democratic Party, focusing on strategies aimed at sidelining Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. The hosts analyze the implications of these tactics on party unity, governance, and future political landscapes. Additionally, the episode touches upon media accountability, judicial activism, and the lingering effects of the COVID-19 pandemic on public trust and policy-making.

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1. The Imminent Government Shutdown and Schumer's Dilemma

Mary Kathryn Ham opens the discussion by addressing the recurring battles over government funding, specifically the use of continuing resolutions (CRs) to avert shutdowns. She reflects on the cyclical nature of these negotiations, noting, “Every time we do a fight over a government shutdown... I think to myself, let's get back together and do this in a couple of months” (04:03).

Carol Markowitz agrees, highlighting the political tightrope Schumer finds himself on. She explains, “Schumer sort of promises some resistance. He can't really deliver” (06:09), emphasizing the conflicting pressures from both the party base and the need for effective governance.

The core issue revolves around Schumer's struggle to balance opposing factional demands within the Democratic Party. Mary Kathryn points out, “They have a left-leaning base that wants to block Trump at all levels and at all times” (06:58), illustrating the internal discord that hampers unified action.

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2. Van Jones on Democratic Frustration with Schumer

The episode features insights from Van Jones, who provides an external perspective on the heightened anger within the Democratic ranks towards Schumer. He states, “I've never seen this level of volcanic anger at a Democrat ever, ever, ever” (10:22). Jones attributes this frustration to a desire for leadership that actively counters Republican strategies, much like Mitch McConnell did for Republicans. He criticizes Schumer for “radically misread the room” (10:18), suggesting that his maneuvers fail to satisfy the party's base aspirations for a more confrontational stance against opposition.

Mary Kathryn Ham concurs, reflecting on historical parallels within the GOP: “Where my most relevant memory on this is Bill's 2013 or so when Ted Cruz and some others were like, we can kill Obamacare magically by shutting down the government” (06:58). This comparison underscores the recurring themes of internal party conflicts affecting broader political outcomes.

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3. Trump Administration's Use of the Alien Enemies Act

The discussion shifts to the controversial use of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 by the Trump administration to deport Venezuelan gang members. Carol Markowitz presents the issue: “The Trump administration has flown 250+ alleged migrant gang members to El Salvador where they will be held in a notorious mega prison” (18:11).

She critiques the administration’s defiance of judicial rulings, noting, “They are not following court orders” (20:31). Mary Kathryn adds, “The president for sure does not need another reason” (19:46), expressing skepticism about the administration’s justification for these deportations.

The hosts discuss the broader implications of such actions, including public confusion and eroding trust in judicial processes. They question the effectiveness and legality of invoking outdated laws in modern governance, highlighting a disconnect between executive actions and judicial oversight.

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4. Media Accountability and COVID-19 Reporting

A significant portion of the episode critiques media reporting during the COVID-19 pandemic, specifically targeting Apoorva Mandavi, a reporter for the New York Times. Mary Kathryn Ham asserts, “Apoorva... was terrible at her job” (31:07), citing numerous factual inaccuracies in her reporting, such as misstating the number of children affected by multi-system inflammatory syndrome.

She further criticizes the Times for downplaying the lab leak theory, arguing, “They decided that the less racist version was that Chinese people were just like eating bats at a wet market” (36:37). This, she contends, perpetuated racist stereotypes and obscured potential truths about the pandemic’s origins.

Carol Markowitz echoes these sentiments, questioning the role of activist judges and media in shaping public perception: “It's very troubling that courts are able to stop basically anything that they don't like” (22:31). The hosts argue that biased reporting has significantly damaged public trust in both media and governmental institutions.

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5. Teachers Unions and the Impact on School Reopenings

The hosts delve into the role of teachers unions during the pandemic, focusing on leaders like Randi Weingarten and Becky Pringle. Mary Kathryn Ham criticizes Weingarten for “holding reopenings ransom” (40:16), alleging that union demands for safety measures prolonged school closures, adversely affecting students' education.

She further targets Pringle of the National Education Association, stating, “Following cautious public health guidance was the right approach... those infectious disease experts... are the ones who were lying to you” (39:29). This critique highlights the perceived obstruction caused by union leadership in the swift reopening of schools.

Carol Markowitz adds, “They have a very friendly, media compliant media host” (42:02), suggesting that union leaders are adept at media manipulation to shield themselves from accountability, thereby exacerbating the challenges faced during the pandemic.

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6. The Legacy of COVID-19 on Policy and Public Trust

Concluding the episode, Mary Kathryn and Carol reflect on the enduring effects of the COVID-19 pandemic on American politics and society. They discuss the ongoing distrust in health agencies and the media, attributing it to perceived misinformation and biased reporting during the crisis.

Mary Kathryn emphasizes, “American citizens don't get that [fraudulent protections]” (20:34), underscoring the disparity in support between citizens and non-citizens posed by the pandemic response. Carol concurs, noting, “He's not the person [Mitch McConnell] being the tactical voice... he is the reason there's no Merrick Garland on the Supreme Court” (12:15), linking strategic political maneuvers to broader governance outcomes.

The hosts advocate for accountability and unity within the Democratic Party, urging leaders to balance tactical wisdom with emotional appeal to rebuild trust and effectiveness.

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Notable Quotes

• Mary Kathryn Ham: “Every time we do a fight over a government shutdown... I think to myself, let's get back together and do this in a couple of months” (04:03).

• Van Jones: “I've never seen this level of volcanic anger at a Democrat ever, ever, ever” (10:22).

• Mary Kathryn Ham: “The president for sure does not need another reason” (19:46).

• Carol Markowitz: “How angry are Democrats at leader Schumer? They are right. They are right” (08:25).

• Mary Kathryn Ham: “We were lied to by her [Apoorva Mandavi]” (31:07).

• Carol Markowitz: “It's very troubling that courts are able to stop basically anything that they don't like” (22:31).

• Mary Kathryn Ham: “The left has revealed about itself over the past five years is that, indeed, they believe everyone has the right to be here, is entitled to be here” (20:31).

• Mary Kathryn Ham: “It is insane. She shouldn't have to go to Rhode Island” (25:43).

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Conclusion

In this episode of the Normally Podcast, Mary Kathryn Ham and Carol Markowitz provide a critical examination of the Democratic Party's internal strategies, particularly focusing on Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. They explore the ramifications of these political maneuvers on governance and party cohesion, while also delving into broader issues of media accountability and the long-term impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on public trust and policy-making. The hosts advocate for a balanced approach to leadership that harmonizes tactical effectiveness with emotional resonance to restore unity and effectiveness within the party.

Transcript

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Hey guys. We are back on normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kathryn Kim.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I am Carol Markowitz. Hi, Mary Kathryn. How was your weekend?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It was pretty good. Had a nice dinner out, Enjoyed some chill time yesterday. Not really much going on as far as plans. Watched Robin Hood with my kids yesterday. The Disney one.

[Carol Markowitz]

Do they like it?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

That's a fantastic. That's one of my favorites.

[Carol Markowitz]

I haven't seen it. I have to see that one. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

My gosh, it's so great.

[Carol Markowitz]

All right, I'm add it to my list. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well they basically, it was like 1973, it was a strange time. And they basically took English medieval figures, folk heroes and made them into rednecks. And that's why I like it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, I like that. Okay, I'm going to enjoy that.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Clearly some good country music. It's fantastic. It's a weird thing. It's a weird movie.

[Carol Markowitz]

Speaking of medieval times, I went to the Renaissance fair in South Florida this weekend because I really love my 12 year old son who is, you know, into this sort of thing. It was 90 degrees. It was like on dirt. So like as you're eating their wares or whatever, it's like dirt is flying up everywhere. It felt very medieval, I gotta tell you.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I was gonna say that's very much like the, the true experience that you're having. Aside from the 90 degrees, felt like.

[Carol Markowitz]

I was suffering the way they might have been suffering. So yeah, I wanted to give a shout out to my friend Josh Hammer. He has a book out today called Israel and Civilization, the Fate of the Jewish Nation and the Destiny of the West. It is doing super well on Amazon right now. It's number three on the entire site. I haven't read it yet but I know it's going to be a banger because Josh is really smart and has it going on.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, I will look for that. I did not pre order it and I need to get on it.

[Carol Markowitz]

I have pre ordered. I should be getting it today. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

All Righty. Well, got some news coming out of the Capitol, guys. You know what I think to myself, Carol? Every time we do a fight over a government shutdown and a continuing resolution, which is these stopgap measures that they pass when they can't figure out how to do the rest of the budgeting, I think to myself, let's get back together and do this in a couple of months, which is what we do every single time. So you'll remember in fall or during the lame duck Biden time, right before Christmas, they passed another continuing resolution that got us to now. So the government was not shut down over Christmas. It wasn't shut down in January or February. We get to now, and once again, they have to have this conversation.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

They're having this conversation about a continuing resolution that basically continues right in there in the name. Yeah, it just continues what was going on during the Biden years. There are some things that are in there that make it. Don't make it totally clean, as they call it, but it's basically that the House, by some miracle, passes it. Way to go, Speaker Mike Johnson. I don't. I don't know how he managed that with his tiny margin, but they passed it, and Democrats didn't know what to do after that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I think they thought Johnson would fall on his face. So this continuing resolution to prevent a government shutdown, which I can have many problems with the funding of the government as it stands, but they were preventing a shutdown. Bypassing this, it goes to the Senate, at which point Schumer sort of promises some resistance. He can't really deliver. He's like, we should stand up against this. We can't vote for a thing Trump wants. Not clearly, that we already voted for and are on record supporting. And also, our whole argument to the American people is that government is sacrosanct and important in their everyday lives and we should not be on the side. Yes, that's their argument. So then they're on this weird tight wire.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Tightrope. Where they're like, well, we can't vote for anything Trump wants, but also we don't want the government to shut down because the government is our greatest love and passion. So Schumer ends up announcing after sort of fainting that he might block it. He announces, nah, I'm gonna vote for it. And that thing passed the Senate and, oh, boy.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, they're mad. The squad is mad. You know, it's interesting because I very rarely say that I think Schumer did the right thing. I'm not against shutting down the government and figuring out what our spending should be. I get that it's portrayed as like antics or not being serious or not being the adult or whatever, but had that happened, Schumer would have gotten the blowback of it. He is absolutely right to protect his own hide. Basically the fact that the resistance or whatever they're called these days, the squad people want him to stand in the way of Trump getting any wins whatsoever. They don't seem to realize that it will harm them and I don't know if it will harm them specifically. AOC is gonna get reelected no matter what and people like in the Senate as well. But Schumer is feeling definitely some heat and is concerned that it's going to.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Affect him well and for them. So I'm with you that sometimes if there's a. I know that the government shutdown is not smart politically for anyone. Basically, I know that you and I are like, I mean, if the OMB has to be declaring who's essential and non essential, I'd like to see that. I'd love to hear who's non essential that I'm paying to be at work. So that was what the Democrats were up against because they're like, well, if Russ Vought over at omb, a Trump administration official and who they, who they say is like the father of Project 2025, right. That dude is put in charge of deciding who's essential and non essential during a government shutdown. Like I don't think that will go well for our cause, which is federal bureaucrats, which.

[Carol Markowitz]

They're right. They're right. And while I would like to see that happen, they're absolutely right for stopping that from happening.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

But they do have this left leaning base that wants to block Trump at all levels and at all times. And honestly, we've been here before, the Republican Party has been here before. Conservatives have been here before. Where my most relevant memory on this is Bill's 2013 or so when Ted Cruz and some others were like, we can kill Obamacare magically by shutting down the government. And I was like, I don't know how that's gonna work, but you have a base that's saying you have to stand up against this horrible thing. So those are the dynamics at play. But man, it's not going well for Schumer, who did take to X with his little influencer Mike and try to explain to people why it was important that he not vote for the shutdown. Let's hear a little bit from Van Jones, who I think can say safely has his finger on the pulse of the left leaning base. He's reporting on CNN what he's hearing about how people feel about this.

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How angry are Democrats at leader Schumer?

[Van Jones]

I've never seen this level of volcanic anger at a Democrat ever, ever, ever. We could be grumpy, we can be frustrated with each other. There is a volcanic eruption of outrage at leader Schumer because we want Mitch McConnell. I remember when Obama had all the cards. Mitch McConnell drove Obama nuts, twisted his pinky, broke his kneecaps and got stuff done for Republicans when they shouldn't have gotten an inch. They got miles. We have a Senate majority leader who is beloved in this party, but we want somebody who's going to stand up to this bully, stand up to this bully, do something. And if you shut the government down and it gets a little bit crazy, at least some politics is about the rationality. There's an emotional need to stop Donald Trump and Elon Musk from running over this party. And I think Chuck Schumer has radically misread the room.

[Carol Markowitz]

He's right. But I would love to see that emotionality or whatever he calls it a little bit lower. Just bring it down a notch. And I know that, you know, I know that the right was just as guilty of it. Obviously politics is very emotional. Um, but just bring it down just a touch.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, what he's missing, right, he's, he's saying two different things and he's correct about both of them, but they don't work together. Mitch McConnell was not the emotional voice.

[Carol Markowitz]

Such a good Republican Party. That's why people dislike him.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

That's why people don't like him. He was the tactical voice and he was very good at it. And even though he got stuff for people that ultimately they wanted, like he's the reason there's no Merrick Garland on the Supreme Court.

[Carol Markowitz]

I know. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

He is the reason. But there are people in the Republican Party who hate him because he didn't give them that emotional.

[Carol Markowitz]

He does not.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

He didn't give them that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And that's what they wanted. And I would argue to Democrats that much like with Republicans, go for the tactical wisdom. Pelosi is actually probably the best counterpart example here. Although I think she's lost a step.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And don't indulge the emotional part. That's the part that doesn't work.

[Carol Markowitz]

Pelosi actually walked that tightrope quite well being the tactical genius and then the emotional ripping up her know speech and she, she actually did nail that middle ground and they loved her for it. It's, it's a tough place to be. And such a good point about McConnell because he got so many wins and yet he is considered, I mean, he's also obviously lost a step. He voted against Pete Hegseth and some other of Trump's nominees and he's definitely on his way out. But it's, it's interesting how much he got done and doesn't get the credit for because he was unable to emote.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, well, I mean, and I think that in politics that can.

[Carol Markowitz]

You need it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You need it. And also if it takes you too far, your party will end up where the Democrats are right now.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You need both needing the emoting so much. The idea that Democrats and liberals don't emote enough is like, I don't know if I can take any more guys. Do that somewhere else. It will steer you wrong if you're not careful.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And I think for the two of us, for instance, and this is not what Democrats wants. Had they, had they shut down the government, I would have been like, let's go to work figuring this out.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. We would have loved it. And that would have made them realize that they had made a terrible mistake.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

But crisis averted for now. But all of all our government ever does is avert crises at the last second.

[Carol Markowitz]

So, yeah, we'll get back together.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

See you guys again in six.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

This one lasts till September, so we.

[Carol Markowitz]

Have the summer a little longer. Yeah, we'll be right back on. Normally.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Glow topic 2 Trump is using the Alien Enemies act of 1798 to deport Venezuelan gang members and people are unhappy about this. I don't quite understand it. Here I am reading from the Free Press. It's indirect defiance of a federal judge's ruling. The Trump administration has flown 250+ alleged migrant gang members to El Salvador where they will be held in a notorious mega prison. The deportations come just hours after a U.S. district Court judge temporarily blocked the Trump administration From invoking the 18th century alien enemies act to remove the alleged gang members without a formal hearing. The Trump administration decided the ruling did not apply because the planes were outside U.S. airspace. Well, I don't know where that ends up, but I'm not loving all the judges getting in the way of anything that the Donald Trump administration wants to do. I see it trickling down to the normies in my life who are like, what's up with all these judges? And don't understand how the president it doesn't have the right to deport gang members. That's where we are. The White House obviously said that the judge's order itself was not lawful and was issued after the group was deported. But the argument that people are making is the act is so old it hasn't been used since World War II. I don't understand how that's an argument. So what? So what? The Constitution's old too. It's very old. Yeah. It kind of doesn't make sense to me.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

If you're here illegally, we don't need another reason, right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. The president for sure does not need another reason.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I don't. This, this is the thing is like all and I think the for me, the pandemic anniversary is exacerbating my feelings about this because so many of the arguments the left is making on behalf of people who are not citizens and who have been here illegally and have actively been committing crimes is that we must preserve at all costs civil liberties for them that they Happily discarded during the pandemic. For citizens like that, that makes it hard for me to side with you. Like, I'm not gonna do this, Like, Talmudic reading of every 17. Whatever law.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, yes. I'm reading the Talmud right now. We want no part of this.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I know. I'm sorry. It's an expression. Yeah, but it's a. To come to the conclusion that I don't know that. To preserve everything and anything for anyone who wants to be in our country at any time. Because what the left has revealed about itself over the past five years is that, indeed, they believe everyone has the right to be here, is entitled to be here. As long as you get here, you get all the stuff, and then you get put up in a hotel. American citizens don't get that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. You get checks. I mean, let me tell you, I was a refugee to this country. We did not get checks. We did not get. We did not get free anything. So it's. It's a wild, wild scene when they're trying to, again, push through benefits that Americans don't have. And we saw that, of course, during the pandemic, in actuality, when California schools were closed, but illegal immigrants in California had teachers from those closed schools come and teach the children at those centers. It was like, wait, what?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

That one? That one really was a bit of a breaking point for me.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I was like, they're doing what now?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Yeah. Well, the judge thing also, I have to say. Another judge ordered the Trump administration to reinstate fired federal employees. Another one has blocked DOGE from accessing Social Security Administration systems because they contain sensitive data. As if that data is not already available to thousands of bureaucrats.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

To every schmo in the department. Yes.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. But Elon Musk is going to go buy a new car with our. With our information. It's just. I worry about the politicized courts. It's not up my alley. I don't know enough about it. But I can tell you, from a normie perspective, it seems very troubling that courts are able to stop basically anything that they don't like, even on any level. And, of course. Yeah, go ahead. I feel like I was gonna say the same thing.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I was just gonna say that I was gonna add a detail that the order from the court about the employees that have to be brought back, those are probationary employees. The whole definition of probationary is that you do not have guaranteed employment. You do not have the right to that job. At that point, you are serving a probationary period during which your Employer will decide if you have that job for good. And the idea that federal workers are so protected that even probationary workers cannot be removed is part of the problem for normies.

[Carol Markowitz]

It is. And look, I believe in our system, I'm sure it'll go through the courts and eventually what I think is the right position will win out. But that's a long process and I don't like that these activist judges are able to kind of hold up the process and cause this ruckus in what's supposed to be kind of easy decision making time. These aren't complicated details. Again, I don't see why deporting Venezuelan gang members should be difficult. And so what I was going to add is there's also this whole, like, the Trump administration is not following court orders. Wait until everybody finds out about what the Biden administration did where they overruled the Supreme Court, which said, you cannot give, you cannot pay off student loans. And they were like, we're going to go ahead and pay off student loans anyway. And nobody had a problem with that. Nobody said, oh, our, our checks and balances are in danger. Nobody thought he was, you know, an autocrat or a king or any of that. They kind of just were like, oh, that's a good thing that he's, he's not listening to the courts.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, no, it was a laudable thing. I mean, it really is. Just when they do it, it's fine. That's the rule. I wanted to add another bit of what seems to be judicial activism happening in Maine, where the Maine State Representative Laurel Libby filed a lawsuit over her censure for a social media post that pointed out a trans athlete in a girl's competition. She's on the right side of that issue, along with 80% of Americans. All of Maine's federal judges recused themselves from the case, which I know there's been a lot of talk about speech threats in the past week. Hers gets much less attention. But she was told not to talk or vote or represent her constituents because she had the wrong position on trans athletes in women's sports. And no one's going to hear her case because mysteriously, they're all recused. But they're not really giving reasons.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Why they're recused. So she has to go to another.

[Carol Markowitz]

State in Rhode Island. Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Fundamental liberty addressed at all acceptable.

[Carol Markowitz]

How, how are, you know, I just, again, I always say this, but like, on the right, there would be a thousand think pieces about how wrong this is. And we have a self check system on the right I, I get that there are people who will, you know, follow Trump into the fire and, and obviously there, there's definitely that element as well. But we have a, a whole universe of people who, who love disagreeing with the common wisdom of the right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You know, true.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's. And look, sometimes that's us. Yeah, right, right. Sometimes that's us, sometimes it's not. But the left just doesn't have it. They are, are completely just don't do it. And anybody on the left who does do it is sort of on the right. They get kicked off the plantation.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And I think you saw in Van Jones's comments the fact that they've never been this angry before. I'm like, what have y'all been doing?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Right. A, you should have been angry much earlier. And B, we're this angry at them all the time. All the time. That's how you got Trump. So, yeah, I think they're, they're adjusting to that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

She ever damn case heard in her state. It's crazy.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's insane. She shouldn't have to go to Rhode Island. Nobody should have to go to Rhode Island. We're going to take a short break and come right back with normally.

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[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, we are still mad about it, bro. And we are going to keep talking about it because it is the five year anniversary of COVID and there's still so much to discuss. The New York Times is now it can be tolding about COVID and I feel very bitter about that. Their Covid reporter is Apoorva Mandavili and she is is terrible at her job. The latest piece is that we were lied to about COVID Yeah, by her. We were lied to by her.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, and there's an op ed this weekend that was written by Zeynep Tufeki, who's like a public health writer and she's, as these people go, she's not the worst one. But wouldn't it be wild to be a New York Times reader or an NPR listener and just learn this weekend that you were lied to about the lab leak theory by everyone on purpose Because Tufeki finally writes, we were badly misled about the event that changes our changed our lives. And people like you and I are like, we. Yeah, who's this we? Because I was saying way back in the day that y'all were lying about this and I was told that I was a racist conspiracy, Right? So now the readers of the New York Times get to learn that now the truth isn't racist anymore. You can admit, as Tufeki does, that in all likelihood this came from a lab. She points out that Francis Collins was involved in lying about it, that Fauci and his top people were involved in lying about it, that they misled reporters, that public health reporters at journals like Lancet and Nature colluded with the government to lie about this possibility because they decided that the lab leak theory was going to be problematic, probably for the CCP as part of it, for their funding, for their careers and for our feelings toward the Chinese people. That's what they decided. And they decided that the less racist version of this was that Chinese people were just like eating bats at a wet market. And that ended up making the coronavirus.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, yeah. None of that makes any sense. Apoorva was. Again, that's. The reporter at the New York Times was best known during the COVID years for her multi paragraph corrections. And the paper had to issue. One of them was an earlier version of this article incorrectly referred to the numbers of children age 5 to 11 with multi system inflammatory syndrome. About 4,000 have been diagnosed, not died with the syndrome.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Oh, my God.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, that was a. That was a good one. Four thousand kids, she said, died from having this multi. You know, mis. Another one was at one point, she wrote, Nearly 900,000 children have been hospitalized during COVID That number turned out to be 63,000. She was terrible at her job. She continues in the role. And it's also important to remember that the COVID years coincided with the cancel culture years. And Bethany Mandela and I wrote a book that explored some of this called Stolen Youth. Check it out. Still available for purchase wherever you buy books. Donald McNeil Jr. Was the science and health reporter at the New York Times who got fired for using the N word in a quote. So he was quoting something and he used the N word. And the New York Times was left with Apoorva, who called the lab theory racist and made tons of errors and wouldn't report on the crisis happening correctly.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, and he was. Yeah, he was canceled over this incident where he was asked proactively about the N word by young people who he was leading on a trip. Like, these were like teenagers who were like, okay, well, it was a discussion about how you handle the word. No grace was given for his intent, of course. So he's kicked out of the New York Times just when they need him. Because he was an experienced science and public health reporter, Apoorva takes over. And I came across one of her old tweets today. Compared to the Sunday piece about how we were misled In May of 2021, Apoorva was still saying, someday we will stop talking about the lab like theory and maybe even admit its racist roots. But alas, that day is not here yet. So the pandemic just fueled these ridiculous witch hunts that tossed people out on their butts who shouldn't have been tossed out and then gave their jobs to people who demonstrably betrayed the public trust over and over and over again. And then we wonder why we don't listen to them.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Why? Why? Americans have lost such a significant amount of trust in our health agencies and our media. Obviously, it's because of stuff like this. She obviously has. Never apologize for calling people racist because they believed what ended up being the truth. I actually, again, like you said, I think that it's far more racist to be like, those crazy Chinese people eat bats and that's how viruses get spread. I don't get how that's not the more racist version.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

No, it's pretty bad. I will say I read both through this one and the New York Times coverage of what we've learned about school closures for the next pandemic. I know you won't be surprised to learn that in what we've learned, they didn't go to the people who did it. Right?

[Carol Markowitz]

No, of course not.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And asked them, what should we learn? They didn't go to the rural counties and the counties, the brave. There's a one brave county right near Henrico county in Virginia that did open much earlier than other parts of Virginia in an attempt to get kids back on track. And man, were they abused in the public eye just for attempting this. But you know what? They did the right thing. So I'm reading, I'm reading this piece from the New York Times about what we've learned and notice that of course, it's all the old bad actors talking again. But the thing that really struck me is that they report on the school closure decision being made. And they say the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a report in June 2020 recommending that schools reopen. Republican run states like Texas and Florida forged ahead with plans to offer in person instruction to families who wanted it. Yet thousands of schools in Democratic majority states like California, Oregon, Washington and Maryland stayed closed or partially closed for another full year. Policymakers who had a role in those decisions argued that applying evidence from abroad was difficult. Blah, blah, blah. The politicization of the pandemic also played a role. President Trump repeatedly called on schools to reopen, while many Democratic officials and advocacy groups fought for stricter safety measures and more federal aid to schools. They report on this without saying the politicization came from the American Academy of Pediatrics, who reversed course when Trump agreed.

[Carol Markowitz]

Trump, right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Because they didn't want to be on the same side as Trump and they were willing to sell out science and kids to do it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, like the American Academy of Pediatrics is just. They also ended up arguing that kids didn't need to see faces when, when they were learning to how to speak, something that they had Always believed they, they reversed themselves on so many things.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Or the screens were just hunky dory.

[Carol Markowitz]

Screens are so good. They reverse themselves on so many things that they believed to fit in with the political moment. Another obviously very famous example was that all the medical professionals were saying that, you know, you had to stay inside. You can't be mingling in groups. But then the George Floyd riots happened and they said, oh, you should go protest because this is more important. Well, a lot of people noticed at that point that they didn't think it was more important than seeing their parents who might not have that much time, or getting their kids into schools. It's important to keep talking about it. We're going to keep talking about it because it's a moment that still has. Nobody has taken responsibility. Nobody has been held accountable. The New York Times doing these little drip drips five years later of we were lied to. Like, no, we were not lied to. You. You were doing the lie.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It was, you lied.

[Carol Markowitz]

I have found you didn't fall for it. Yeah. And you, and you made it hard for us to tell the truth. You made it as difficult as possible. You covered everything in a way that was completely opposite of the truth. And until somebody's held accountable, until we know for sure this will never happen again, we're going to keep talking about it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, and not only did they report things that weren't the truth, they in many cases colluded with the federal government or approvingly, like clapped as the federal government censored people who disagreed with their reporting or disagreed with their conclusions. I mean, that's a real thing that happened. By the way, would you like to hear what Randi Weingarten has learned?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I was gonna say about Randy. Go ahead.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. She's quoted in the New York Times and honestly, she's smarter than Becky Pringle, who is the other head of the teachers unions, whose quote I will read next. Because she can fudge it a little bit. She's like, yes, I've learned a lot from this, said Randy Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers and a powerful force of Democratic politics who at times worked behind the scenes to negotiate reopenings. No, she worked behind the scenes to hold reopenings ransom. That's what she did. Right. She also stood by locals in places like Philadelphia and Chicago, where union members fought for vaccines, tests, ventilation and other safety measures even after classrooms in other parts of the country had reopened. Ms. Weingarten defended her members rights to work safely and emphasized the importance of ventilation, but said she would strive to be clearer in the future that, quote, kids have to be the priority that includes in person instruction. She said, I thought I was pretty loud. She added, I would be even louder. Oh, my God, ma'am, You are a liar.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right? You were the person blocking the school door. It was you, bitch. Can cut that.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Oh, I don't think we should. I don't think we should. So she, like, fakes it, and that is a lie. Becky Pringle of the National Education association, she goes even further, by the way. The California Department of Public Health wouldn't even respond to questions about school closures. Becky Pringle says that following cautious public health guidance was the right approach and is the one she would follow again. What we needed to do was listen to infectious disease experts. Ms. Pringle said. Those infectious disease experts, by the way, are the ones who were lying to you, as the New York Times just pointed out yesterday.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Oh, my Lord.

[Carol Markowitz]

But you're right. You're right that Randy is much smarter because she's painting herself as somebody who tried to get schools open, and that's a crazy thing to do. But, you know, she has a very friendly, media compliant media host. Can you imagine?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Can you imagine being a Republican and getting away with that answer? Like, I've learned a lot to do the things that are popular now.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, yeah. And it was me who was doing the things that were unpopular then. But we're not gonna talk about that. So, yeah, we're still mad. I'm gonna stay mad, and I have no problem with that because it's the best way forward. It's the way to not forget what they did to us.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Okay, I'm gonna leave you with one more quote to be mad about. This is. Brent Jones, superintendent of Seattle Public Schools, said he was not apologetic about his system's 18 month period of virtual and hybrid learning, one of the longest in the country. I saw it as a forced opportunity to step back. He said. We were called upon, frankly, to expand our mission to include many other things. Nutritional, social, emotional, mental health. There was a cry for support. Schools stepped into that gap. No, they would do this again in a heartbeat. So get ready to fight it when the time comes.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes. I'll add one more thing to that. We could just keep going forever. My governor in New York at the time, Governor Andrew Cuomo, said we needed to reimagine schools. And he said, we have all these buildings. What for? Basically saying we could all have our kids learn online. That man is now trying to be mayor of New York City. This is all again, nothing is in the past. Everything is in the future and we should be ready for it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Okay, hold on. I know I'm adding one more thing.

[Carol Markowitz]

One more, one more. Do it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I forgot to mention this line from the New York Times piece. In some ways, moving to online learning would be easier next time, now that nearly all schools give students their own laptops or tablets. Be ready for it people. It is coming. We've been right for five years. We're right again. They will do this in a heartbeat.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right. And this time we hopefully will know what to do. Well, thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcast. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

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[Carol Markowitz]

Okay, we.

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