Normally Podcast: The Signal Group Text Drama

Summary

Summary of "Normally Podcast: The Signal Group Text Drama" – The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Release Date: March 27, 2025
Length: Approximately 40 minutes
Hosts: Mary Kathryn Ham and Jenny Garth

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1. Introduction

In this episode of "Normally," hosted by Mary Kathryn Ham and Jenny Garth, the discussion primarily revolves around a major news story published by The Atlantic concerning a clandestine Signal group chat among high-ranking officials in the Trump administration. The hosts delve into the implications of this revelation, scrutinize the credibility of the involved parties, and explore broader societal issues such as declining marriage rates and increasing loneliness.

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2. The Signal Group Text Drama

Overview of the Story

Mary Kathryn Ham introduces the central topic by referencing The Atlantic’s exposé on Jeffrey Goldberg, the magazine's editor-in-chief. Goldberg revealed that on March 11th, he was inadvertently added to a Signal group chat comprising prominent figures from the Trump administration and national security sectors, including Vice President J.D. Vance, NSA's Mike Waltz, Senator Marco Rubio, Secretary of State Tulsi Gabbard, and Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Jameson Greer, among others.

Discovery and Verification

Goldberg became aware of the chat and began monitoring it, suspecting its authenticity. His skepticism was confirmed when the discussions aligned with the timing of recent military operations against the Houthis in Yemen. This alignment led him to publish the story, asserting its validity based on the accurate predictions of the strikes ("03:55" Mary Kathryn Ham).

Administration's Response

Following the publication, President Trump denied knowledge of the group chat, proclaiming ignorance about its existence ("06:06" Jenny Garth). This denial triggered a swift response from deputies, who were summoned to a pre-scheduled House hearing on intelligence issues the following day ("06:06" Ham). The hosts critique the administration’s handling of the situation, emphasizing the lack of accountability and transparency.

Credibility of Jeffrey Goldberg

Jenny Garth expresses skepticism about Goldberg’s credibility, referencing his previous unsubstantiated claims, such as the "suckers and losers" story about Trump’s comments on troops ("03:09" Ham). However, she acknowledges that this particular revelation is verifiable, distinguishing it from his past work ("11:18" Ham).

Security Implications

The use of Signal, an encrypted messaging service, by high-level officials raises significant security concerns. Jenny Garth questions the appropriateness of using such platforms for sensitive communications, emphasizing the risks associated with accidental inclusions in group chats ("07:35" Ham). Mary Kathryn Ham adds that the practice of using Signal predates the current administration, suggesting it is not an unprecedented issue ("07:59" Ham).

Notable Quotes:

• Mary Kathryn Ham (07:42): "One of the first things that happened when I was confirmed as CIA director was that Signal was loaded onto my computer at the CIA as it is for most CIA officers."

• Jenny Garth (08:20): "I don't have a problem with them communicating on Signal, although I don't know the ins and outs of Signal deleting the conversations."

• Mary Kathryn Ham (10:03): "I am taking responsibility for this. But it does sound like it was a staffer. I'm just saying it wasn't actually Mike Waltz, who formed the group."

Internal Administration Dynamics

The conversation reveals internal tensions within the administration, particularly between isolationist figures like J.D. Vance and others who advocate for maintaining open trade lanes and international cooperation. The hosts highlight Vance’s critical comments regarding President Trump's messaging to Europe and his stance on trade ("16:02" Garth).

Handling of the Situation

Both hosts express disappointment in the administration’s lack of effective crisis management. They criticize the focus on public perception and messaging over addressing the core security lapse, arguing that leadership should prioritize national security over optics ("21:25" Garth).

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3. Societal Issues: Declining Marriage Rates and Loneliness

Declining Marriage Rates Among Women

Jenny Garth discusses a Wall Street Journal piece highlighting the increasing number of women aged 18 to 40 who are single and neither married nor cohabitating—a rise from 41% in 2000 to 51% in 2023 ("27:05"). She underscores this trend as a significant societal problem, linking it to broader issues of economic stability and personal happiness.

Personal Anecdotes and Observations

Mary Kathryn Ham shares personal experiences as a single mother, emphasizing the challenges of parenting without a partner. She advocates for prioritizing family creation not only for societal stability but also for individual well-being ("28:44").

Declining Friendships and Increasing Loneliness

Jenny elaborates on the "connection crisis," noting a surge in individuals reporting zero friends. She connects this phenomenon to the decline in marriage and stable relationships, suggesting that the lack of social bonds contributes to widespread loneliness ("29:58").

Notable Quotes:

• Jenny Garth (27:48): "The share of women age 18 to 40 who are single that is neither married nor cohabitating was 51% in 2023. That number is just getting higher and higher and it's obviously a giant problem."

• Mary Kathryn Ham (28:44): "Creating these families should be a priority not just for the future of the civilization, which is like imperative, but also for people's happiness."

Solutions and Cultural Shifts

The hosts advocate for a return to traditional matchmaking methods, such as setups by friends, affinity groups, and community gatherings. They express a preference for organic relationship formations over digital dating platforms, emphasizing the importance of face-to-face interactions in building meaningful connections ("30:40" Garth).

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4. Sports and Social Media Harassment

Impact of Social Media on Athlete Harassment

Mary Kathryn Ham and Jenny Garth address the issue of athletes being harassed on social media following poor performances. They discuss an NCAA ad campaign aimed at curbing this behavior, highlighting incidents where athletes like St. John Lew faced severe online abuse leading to actions like deactivating social media accounts ("35:38").

Cultural Implications

The hosts critique the toxic culture fueled by sports betting and social media, where supporters take out their frustrations on athletes. They lament the loss of civility and the rise of malicious online behavior, advocating for greater accountability and empathy ("36:30" Ham).

Notable Quotes:

• Jenny Garth (36:51): "It's time we draw the line and put an end to the abuse brought to you by the NCAA."

• Mary Kathryn Ham (37:37): "What happens with social media is like, look, people have been complaining about the quarterback for years. Now you can just go to the source."

Strategies to Combat Harassment

The hosts suggest implementing stricter controls on online interactions and promoting positive reinforcement instead of negative criticism. They encourage listeners to foster supportive environments both online and offline to protect athletes from undue harassment ("38:13" Garth).

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5. Conclusion

Mary Kathryn Ham and Jenny Garth wrap up the episode by reiterating the importance of addressing both the immediate national security concerns highlighted by the Signal group chat drama and the long-term societal challenges of declining relationships and increasing loneliness. They emphasize the need for responsible communication, accountability in leadership, and the cultivation of meaningful personal connections to foster a healthier, more secure society.

Final Notable Quotes:

• Jenny Garth (40:25): "Thanks for joining us on Normally. When things get weird, act normally."

• Mary Kathryn Ham (40:51): "Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with [e-mail]"

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Key Takeaways

• National Security Risks: The inadvertent inclusion of high-ranking officials in an encrypted Signal group chat poses significant security threats, highlighting the need for stringent communication protocols.

• Leadership Accountability: The administration’s response to the Signal chat leak underscores issues of transparency and accountability, essential for maintaining public trust.

• Societal Well-being: The rising rates of singlehood among women and the decline in friendships reflect deeper societal issues that impact economic stability and personal happiness.

• Online Behavior: The intersection of sports, social media, and harassment reveals a cultural shift that necessitates proactive measures to protect individuals from online abuse.

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This comprehensive summary captures the multifaceted discussions of the "Normally" podcast episode, providing insights into both immediate political concerns and enduring societal challenges.

Transcript

[Jenny Garth]

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Hey, guys, we are back on. Normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kathryn Ham.

[Jenny Garth]

And I am Carol Markowitz. Show us your Dolly Parton shirt, Mary Kathryn.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Oh, it's right here.

[Jenny Garth]

I like it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, it's under a blazer. So it's fancy.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah, a good look. That's exactly what Dolly would have liked, right?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

This is business casual, I think is what they call it.

[Jenny Garth]

I said would have like. She's not with us. She is with us. I'm just saying if she had seen it, she would have liked it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Should I ever have the privilege of running into her, which my daughters always say that the only time I would faint is if I ran into Dolly Parton.

[Jenny Garth]

Which is probably true, right? Yeah, I mean, she's it. She's like one of the few that I'd be really excited to meet.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I mean, that's a genuine star sighting. She shows up at Dollywood sometimes. So she'll just be around at the park or at the hotels. So someday, I think someday, you know.

[Jenny Garth]

Double family trip to Dollywood. Let's do it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

There we go. Let's do it. That's on the agenda. But also on the agenda today. A very large news story in the Atlantic this week broke the story about how editor in chief of the Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg, who you will remember probably as the guy who wrote the suckers and losers story about what Trump allegedly said about troops. I have never bought that story because it had no named sources. We can get to the credibility of him in the near future. But that guy wrote a story revealing that on March 11th he was added to a signal group chat. Signal is an encrypted message service, a group chat with all the heavy hitters of the Trump administration, national security world, including Vice President J.D. vance, NSA Mike Waltz, Marco Rubio, Secretary of State Tulsi Gabbard, DNI, the list goes on. I believe Ratcliffe was on there, too, had a CIA. And to various extents, these people in this group chat started chatting, and he started paying attention, wondering, why am I on this group chat? And he pays attention enough that he thinks, I'm not sure this is a hoax, this may be real. So they do some investigating about this, and it turns out that the way he verifies that it is real is that there are details about the most recent military operations against the Houthis in Yemen. And he decides, hey, well, I guess if this timing that I'm getting in this group chat is correct, then I can run with this scoop and I'm not being tricked. And it turns out that indeed, the attacks happened as the chat said they would. Oh, Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense, is there as well. And so he writes this story. And I think, okay, so he writes this story. We'll get into how he handled that as we go forward. The timeline from there goes that Trump is asked about it, says he hasn't heard about this, doesn't know about it. On the first day, the various deputies are called into a already scheduled House hearing on intel issues.

[Jenny Garth]

They must have been so mad about that so bad.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

The next day they are all grilled about it, and now they've been talking on TV and such, and we will deal with who's taking responsibility, who's not, how this is playing out. But that's the timeline of this, by the way. The strikes went extremely well. Nothing was disrupted, partly because of the way Goldberg reported this story. So you're right.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah. So also, I should note that that story broke shortly after we recorded Tuesday's episode, because I knew immediately people would be like, on Tuesday, like, how could you guys not mention the signal story? Yeah, you just don't want to talk about it. Although I was quiet a little bit on, on the X platform because I like a lot of these stories. I wanted to see where it went. I wanted to see how it played out. And Pete Doocy already made the joke that I immediately thought was, you know, immediately about it was, well, they did promise to be the most transparent White House ever. Yeah, yeah. So there are several issues at hand. So starting with should the administration officials be communic communicating via signal at all? And there's a lot of talk about whether signal is secure. I can tell you definitively that it's secure when you don't add someone who shouldn't be in the group. Chat that makes it more secure. But whether they're allowed to do that or not is a question. I believe we have a clip to that effect.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yes. John Ratcliffe, head of the CIA talked about this in front of the House yesterday.

[Jenny Garth]

So that we're clear.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

One of the first things that happened.

[Jenny Garth]

When I was confirmed as CIA director Signal was loaded onto my computer at the CIA as it is for most CIA officers. One of the things that I was briefed on very early, Senator, was by the CIA records management folks about the.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Use of Signal as a permissible work use.

[Jenny Garth]

It is that is a practice that preceded the current administration to the Biden administration.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

So that is an important mitigating factor. That one thing I do not like about any Trump news cycle is that everyone acts as if everything is unprecedented.

[Jenny Garth]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

When in fact you find out shortly after that it's not. That does not mean I think the use of SIGNAL is wise just because the Biden administration did it. And that should be part of the discussion. And also it doesn't mitigate the fact that a giant mistake was made here.

[Jenny Garth]

I think that, yeah, that is where a lot of these stories should start, even on the right. I think that the people who are saying or trying to say this is not a big deal. It is absolutely a big deal. I don't have a problem with them communicating on Signal, although I don't know the ins and outs of Signal deletes the conversations. I don't think that they're allowed to do that. I don't know, you know, the rules around that. But the actual communicating with each other on Signal is not my problem with it. It's that I would not say anything in a group chat where I did not know every single phone number in that group chat. And let me tell you, I would check. So that is a huge issue to me.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, and some allege, okay, there's dirty tricks at hand here. Somehow he got into the chat, but Mike Waltz added him to the chat so he had the number. He is a very important guy, a very smart. A guy I like, by the way.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah, that's the other. We'll get to this in a bit. But yeah, liking people is, is a side issue, you know, So I think.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

He'S a smart guy who's been in intel and military circles for a long time. He should have known better than to do this. He should have known better than creating the group and not triple checking it.

[Jenny Garth]

Sounds like it was a staffer.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

But nevertheless, although he did say when Laura Ingraham asked him on tv, you know, was it a staffer? And he said. He said, I'm not blaming this on a staffer. I am taking responsibility for this.

[Jenny Garth]

But it does sound like it was a staffer. I'm just saying it wasn't actually Mike Waltz, who formed the group.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Regardless, like, somehow someone had this contact, the wrong one got in there. Big mistake. And something that any more adversarial person or country would have made much more hay with, could have done much more damage with, and that the head of the CIA and all these other important people should be on the lookout for. Yes, there are tons of people who want to take you guys, and Jeffrey Goldberg was actually the least of your worries on this occasion.

[Jenny Garth]

Turns out he handled it actually quite maturely. So, you know, yeah, they. They don't have much room here to say, I get that they're attacking the press, and that's going to be the defensive posture of the Trump administration. I don't blame them for a lot of that. But in this particular case, I don't see that Jeffrey Goldberg misplayed this other than is he allowed to release this information. That's also going to be another story as it. Well, it's happening as we're recording this episode. The convers has become whether these were war plans. And he released the chat so people can see whether or not they are war plans.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And the thing is, I agree with Hegseth on the point that Goldberg has dealt in all sorts of hoaxes before. As I said, I have never bought the suckers and losers story because it's never been substantiated by anyone named. And I thought he was really playing fast and loose with that one. But here's the thing. This one is verifiable. And an NSA spokesperson said as much before they started attacking Goldberg as their defense of this. And so what you've done, actually, is in this case, he gets this golden goose scoop that he was handed on a silver platter.

[Jenny Garth]

Yes, he was.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And his credibility has gone up skyward as a result. The Trump administration then basically dared him to release the rest of the text because he had withheld some saying, like, this was so detailed that I don't feel comfortable having it out there. They allege, hey, Goldberg could be mischaracterizing this. And then the Atlantic is like, well, if you guys say it's not classified and everything's fine, then here it is. So now we have the more detailed texts, and they're quite detailed.

[Jenny Garth]

Right, Right. So I'm going to read two tweets Saying that these texts are not a big deal. The first one is from Mike Waltz. He posts, no locations, no sources and methods, no war plans. Foreign partners had already been notified that strikes were imminent. Bottom line, President Trump is protecting America and our interests. And then my friend David Reeboy, who works in the foreign policy space, tweets, okay, so the Atlantic released what they call the war plans. They're depending on people not knowing or caring what this is, but to refer to it that way is a stretch. There's nothing specific here other than times at which events will occur. A leak of this kind could alert the enemy, but doesn't tell them anything about what's coming, where, or how to prepare for it. Nothing burger. I have to say, from a normie perspective, this still seems like a something burger.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. And the thing is, it was. The details came right before the strike, so it wasn't as if disrupting the strike would have been very difficult.

[Jenny Garth]

Yes.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

What I'm concerned about is that if you think this is a nothing burger and you're working with imminent war plans on a regular basis, I think. I can't remember who said it, but this is like the one termite you see. And, like, behind the scenes, there may be a bunch more issues here with how people are communicating. So, look, it's clear that no head is gonna roll. Although I think it could be a thing that you could tender a resignation over again. Even though I like the people involved, where you could go, I really messed this up. This is embarrassing to the administration. It could have been dangerous. Thank goodness it wasn't. And then the President can say, no, I trust you. I want to keep you on. There's another level of that, though, where you can say, hey, we need to actually brush up on our digital security protocols. You can even throw a dig in at the Biden administration. Be like, we shouldn't use what we inherited. Clearly, this is not a good way of doing things. So here are the ways that we are going to fix this moving forward, and here are the ways that I'm taking responsibility for it and maybe even taking a little ding on my record in my. In my file that a normie, lower level intel person would get right, because I don't think that they should be held accountable. But higher ups are not, right.

[Jenny Garth]

They should be the grownups in the room and say, this happened. It's clearly a giant, giant mistake. We're going to get to the bottom of how this happened. We learn, we move on. You know, the story would probably be over by now. Had they done that and they didn't. So then there's the next thing about this is how everyone came off in the actual conversation. Pete Hegseth came off as very decisive and strong. This is what we have to do. Let's do it. I like JD Vance quite a bit. I didn't love his comments in this chat when he said that only 3% of American trade runs through the Suez Canal. I looked it up. In 2024, the United States had a total trade value of goods and services estimated at around 5%, 0.4 trillion in total. 3% of that. I'm not going to do the math, guys, but it's still pretty high. And so I don't think we should just let you know, the Houthis attack our ships. Yes. Europe. JD is completely right that Europe, who has 40% of their trade through the Suez, should obviously be doing more. And we've over the last 60 years or so have just let Europe skate on handling all of their problems for them. And yes, I get the frustration with Europe. Absolutely. But I just generally didn't like his posture in those texts.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. This is the thing is when I'm talking about somebody getting punished, I'm arguing against interest because it would be someone I agree with. Exactly. As opposed to J.D. vance, who I don't agree with. I think to me what the conversation illustrated, obviously there are different forces in this administration that are going to be arguing with each other. They seem to be mature about the way they're arguing with each other. Vance to me, is very much podcast Vance in the chat. Right. Podcast Vance is probably just Vance. Right. And he feels very free to say these are the ways that I don't think this is a good idea. I am a little surprised. Not that he's committed to his form of certainly more isolationist theory that I'm a fan of. I'm not surprised he's committed. I am a little surprised that something like trade lanes being open and free would not fall in American interest for him.

[Jenny Garth]

Completely agree with. Because that's it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

We've been hit, we've been targeted. I think Rubio said the other day, 100 plus times during the Biden administration.

[Jenny Garth]

To now, we can't keep taking that.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, yeah. So that, that surprised me.

[Jenny Garth]

I agree. I also was surprised that he took kind of a shot at President Trump. He said that Trump was sending mixed messages to Europe and he didn't, you know, he didn't want to continue that in case with this strike. So I don't know. It's funny that actually that's not a story at all because I know it's like people are trying to get a scalp and they know they're not gonna get Vances, so they just are letting him kind of skate on those comments.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, and to that point, do you think Vance is speaking out of hu hubris in that chat or is he speaking out of utter confidence that Trump just likes him and that, by the way, that's the bottom line in all these guys. Trump likes all of them.

[Jenny Garth]

That's right. Yeah. I also didn't like in the chat how they focused on how things look and how they're gonna message this. And I get that. Look, my background's in pr. I understand that messaging has to be tight. I understand how important it is for the American people to understand the missions. But you do the right thing for the country that you think is the right thing for the country and you be ready to take the shots if you're wrong. The focus on how this is going to look, I didn't love that either.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. The other thing is I think often Vance might be more on the side of the American public than I am when it comes to how much we're going to do intervention in other places. I'm not as hawkish as I used to be, for sure, but I am more hawkish than he is. I think in this case the American people don't really have an issue with occasional bombing runs that very specifically take out very specific targets and don't cost us a lot of blood and treasure.

[Jenny Garth]

Right. We're not doing boots on the ground here. We're trying to reopen a ceiling. So. Yeah. And of course, obviously people are using this to take shots at people that they dislike personally. That's been right away there was some internal strife about Waltz who, you know, again with the isolationists, he maybe is on the opposite side. Although I, I think these terms don't really make sense for this conflict because you can be an isolationist but still want to have trade with places around the world and need to have those trade lanes open. So Waltz was immediately a target of that isolationist. Right. Of course, the left is having a field day. They might even be possibly overshooting all of this. People like Congressman Eric Swalwell saying that Hegseth should resign. Swalwell had a full on relationship with a Chinese spy and remains in Congress. So maybe he does not have room to lecture anyone on accountability.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, and I think people have definitely have a point when they say, oh, nobody was mad about Oh, I don't know. The hooties actually hitting us all of these times.

[Jenny Garth]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And I was like that. Yes. People should have been more mad about that. Or they'll say Mark Milley was giving backchannel to the ccp saying if the President gets out of hand, I'll deal with it. Right. And saying nobody got mad about that. Both fair criticisms about what people were not mad about. I reserve the right to be mad that this giant boneheaded mistake was made about national security.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah. And it's good and normal to criticize your own side. And normal is the name of the game here.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

He also ran on holding people accountable. And like he has a. Trump has a strange relationship with that because he is the you're fired guy. And then he's also very loyal to anyone he likes, doesn't want to fire them. So the last administration you had a bunch of dust ups and a bunch of people who were got rid of for their. That's kind of really redneck. For the reason that he didn't really trust or know any of those people to begin with. This time the people he chose he mostly likes and knows and trusts.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

So I. But I think it's a bad contrast with Biden or it's bad not to contrast with yourself with Biden in this case by going like someone has to be punished for this.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah. And still I hope that they don't. That none of these people get fired. Right. It's this whole this real balance thing where it's only March. They've only been in office three months. I like this team. I want to see what they do. So.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And tell me. But tell me how you're going to clean it up.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah. Tell me how you're going to fix it and never let this happen again. I mean check the numbers in the text, guys. It's kind of an easy one.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Also just to put it out there because all the conspiracy theories have become true in the last five years. Walt is like, I don't know, Goldberg. I don't know why I had his number. We're looking into that right now. I always pick incompetence over malice in these situations.

[Jenny Garth]

Same. Sure.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

However, in the past five years, often the malice has been the thing, not the incompetence. So just, I'm just putting it out there that that's what he said. Now if that there's no basis in that, then that's irresponsible for him to be putting it out there. Goldberg at one point said they had met in passing, but he was surprised that he would be on his contact list.

[Jenny Garth]

Right. I mean I have a lot of contacts of people I don't like. Like it's not, it's not. That's not a crazy thing to do in our world. Like actually you have their number so that you specifically don't text with them.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Like put a just red flag next.

[Jenny Garth]

To it so you know, not to answer their calls. Come on.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. The theory, by the way, the working theory, which I think is correct, is that the person that was meant to be on the chat was Jameson Greer, U.S. trade Representative, who would naturally have been on a chat about trade lanes and the need to go to military operations to protect them.

[Jenny Garth]

Jameson must have been like, why is nobody calling me?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

But one thing I do think is problematic about this, that sort of takes it another step for the administration. Everything disappears in three days anyway. But people understand being on the wrong thread or texting the wrong thread. And yesterday on nationwide country music syndicated morning show, they were doing a segment about when have you texted the wrong person? In the past for sure.

[Jenny Garth]

Look who among us. And you know, there's been stories in the past where people tried to DM somebody and they ended up posting it on X. Like again, who among us? We've all done it. I would say that my two normie world reactions that I've heard are from two different kinds of people. One who are saying, oh my God, absolutely, this has happened to me. I totally get it. And then from the people who are like, I check, you know, when it's a bridesmaids trip, I check every single number to make sure we have the right people on it and I don't want to send it to a stranger.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And you know, yeah, I am, I have done this. And also if I were a high level intel person with imminent war plans, I would be better at it. Yeah, take a class from the bachelorette party girls.

[Jenny Garth]

That's right, that's right. Yeah. We'll be right back on normally.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

This is Ashley Iconetti from the Ben and Ashley I almost famous podcast.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You could have lost 10 pounds already if you already started one month ago. So are you ready to start today? Find out if weight loss meds are.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Right for you in just 3 minutes at try fh.com try fh.com try fH.com results vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise and program goals.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Database on independent studies sponsored by Future Health.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Future Health is not a health care services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion. Bring spring to your door with Target Circle360 get all you need for Easter hosting spring get togethers and more with unlimited same day Delivery through Target. Circle 360 from Easter Basket goodies to fresh florals, getting everything the same day is easy. Open the Target app and bring the magic of the season to your door with unlimited same day Delivery through Target. Circle360Visit target.com circle or the Target app for more details. Subscription required Same day delivery is subject to terms. Applies to orders over $35 with the best All Inclusive Vacation Deals to Mexico and the Caribbean Booking your getaway with Cheap Caribbean Vacations means you have more freedom to do your Whether you want to enjoy snorkeling, endless margaritas and more, or simply soak up the sun and sand in a tropical paradise, Cheap Caribbean Vacations has your deal for that Plan and book the exact getaway you want at exactly the right price for you by using our exclusive Budget Beach Finder. Or find a featured all inclusive package to Ocean by H10Hotels and do your [e-mail] the new year's here, it's the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive from toothpaste to dish soap, chances are you've got Colt Colgate Palmolive products on your shopping list and in your house. Right now we're talking brands like Colgate Soft Soap, Palmolive, Irish Spring, Fabuloso and Toms of Maine. And right now you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate Palmolive products, here's how it Spend $20 on their products. Get $5 Spend $30 Get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite brands, snap a pic of your receipt and upload it to cprewards.com it's so easy. That's cprewards.com so grab what you need. Or maybe try something new and get rewarded just for doing your usual shopping. And start your year fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive rewards available while supplies last, limit Supply US only 1125 through 331 25. For full terms and conditions, visit cprewards.com.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your Finances.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Our ambition is to make it mean so much more Thrivent where money means more. Connect with [e-mail] There was a Wall.

[Jenny Garth]

Street Journal piece about how women are not getting married. And of course these, these pieces run so often. I cover them a lot on my other show, Carol Markowitz show and actually I had it in my monologue yesterday about this Wall Street Journal piece. But basically the numbers are just collapsing. People are neither partnered nor married. Share of women age 18 to 40 who are single that is neither married nor cohabitating was 51% in 2023. That number was 41% in 2000. So that number is just getting higher and higher and it's obviously a giant problem.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, I mean I think we have a civilizational problem if people don't know how to pair off and create families. The data simply says over and over and over again that two parent families raising children are the best for people's, their stability, for economics, for the economic well being of the household, for future earnings, for happiness. Like all these things, everything again arguing against interest. I was a single mom for several years. I think I did a very good job at it. But I cannot be a mother and a father at the same time. And so creating these families should be a priority not just for the future of the civilization, which is like imperative. People used to get that, but also for people's happiness. We're having a connection crisis and people are unable to figure out how not to be lonely. And that's very concerning to me.

[Jenny Garth]

So I completely agree. And the fact that people can't figure out how not to be lonely is top of my priority list of what? The kind of stuff that I like to talk about and write about. Recently had a column in the New York Post about how friendship is just, you know, those numbers have also plummeted. People just don't have friends anymore. The number of people who say they have zero friends has skyrocketed. So it's not marriage and it's not just, you know, having kids. It's the whole thing. They don't date, they don't get married. I mean, they don't have friends. All of this is an ongoing problem. I think a lot of these articles and a lot of the studies focus on the financial side of it. I just don't think that tells the whole story. I've never met a woman and I'm talking ever who's like, I am so career orientated that I don't want to meet a man. Every career orientated woman I know, wants to meet someone. And what I end up arguing in, you know, in the Carol Markowitz show is that I think that when women don't meet a partner, then yes, they lean more into their career. So it wasn't the career that stopped them in the first place. It's that they didn't find anyone and their career was what they turned to.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. I noticed a couple things in this story. One, the only woman quoted who is pursuing a promising relationship, got into that relationship or says she's in a promising relationship, got into that relationship via a setup from friends. I think, I don't think that the apps don't work for anyone. I have plenty of friends who got married from the apps. However, it is an argument for a return in encouraging the traditional ways of meeting in, you know, affinity groups of friends. Where you going to an actual bar or bowling alley for a party and you meet somebody there. The gym, your friends, a church. These things are real.

[Jenny Garth]

Life is very good. Yeah, I love setting people up. I love setting people up. I, you know, if anybody wants to be set up, you let me know.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, I don't know if I'm any good at it, but I need to make sure I'm there for my friends in this way because I do think I was set up with my husband by a wonderful neighbor who quote, assessed both of us and I think rightly said, I think you can handle him and I think you can handle her.

[Jenny Garth]

I love it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, that was her big pitch. The other thing I noticed here is that there's one woman in this story in particular who's just letting politics take over your life.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And be everything and therefore prevent you or cause you to catastrophize and prevent you from living life is really unhealthy. And I'm just going to read a little bit of this. Rachel, a 33 year old real estate agent in Savannah, Georgia said she broke up with her boyfriend, with whom she shares a five year old son, over a year ago because she was tired of doing most of the childcare, cooking, scheduling, while also earning almost double of her boyfriend's salary. That's a whole other issue. Right. She has yet to date anyone else in part because she worries about living in a red state with a six week abortion ban. I have a child that I can't leave behind to drive to Virginia if I had a pregnancy scare and I definitely can't afford another child as a single mom. She said this is, I'm going to borrow a phrase from Bethany, single for a reason. Like, does it? That story made me very sad.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah, that is depressing. And it's like, there are ways to not get pregnant. I've heard.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And she's an independent.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Smart lady.

[Jenny Garth]

Right? We're gonna take a short break and come right back with Normally.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

This is Ashley Akadeni from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

If you could lose 10.4 pounds in one month, would you try? Well, with Future Health? You can find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just 3 minutes at try fh.com that is try fh.com try fh.com results may vary.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Based on start weight and adherence to.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Diet, exercise and program goals.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Database on Independent Studies Sponsored by Future Health.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion. Bring spring to your door with target circle360 get all you need for Easter hosting spring get togethers and more with unlimited same day delivery Through Target Circle 360 from Easter Basket goodies to fresh florals, getting everything the same day is easy. Open the Target app and bring the magic of the season to your door with unlimited same day Delivery through Target Circle360. Visit target.com circle or the Target app for more details. Subscription required Same day delivery is subject to terms. Applies to orders over $35 with the best all inclusive vacation deals to Mexico and the Caribbean Booking your getaway with Cheap Caribbean vacations means you have more freedom. Do your deal Whether you want to enjoy snorkeling, endless margaritas and more, or simply soak up the sun and sand in a tropical paradise, Cheap Caribbean Vacations has your deal for that. Plan and book the exact way you want at exactly the right price for you by using our exclusive Budget Beach Finder. Or find a featured all inclusive package to Iberostar Hotel & Resorts in Jamaica and do your [e-mail] the New Year's Here, it's the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive. From toothpaste to dish soap soap, chances are you've got Colgate Palmolive products on your shopping list and in your house. Right now we're talking brands like Colgate Soft Soap, Palmolive, Irish Spring, Fabuloso, and Tom's of Maine. And right now you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate Palmolive products. Here's how it Spend $20 on their products get $5 spend $30 get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite favorite brands, snap a pic of your receipt and upload it to cprewards.com it's so easy. That's cprewards.com so grab what you need or maybe try something new and get rewarded just for doing your usual shopping. And start your year fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive rewards available. While supplies last. Limit supply us only 1125 through 331 25. For full terms and conditions, visit cprewards.com.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Because even though our business is helping.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more Connect with.

[Jenny Garth]

[e-mail] March Madness is going on. And that's apparently a college basketball tournament. I'm joking. I actually it's on in the background of my life all the time.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And by the way, a good place to meet men?

[Jenny Garth]

Yes.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

A bar during March Madness.

[Jenny Garth]

Yes, absolutely. Ladies, get out there. Well, St. John's in New York lost a close game to Arkansas in the second round. And actually I was rooting for St. John's because my other sporty girlfriend, Kirsten Fleming told me to. You and Kirsten are like my main sports girls. So St. John Lew's sadly. And their star player, R.J. lewis Jr. He was big east player of the year, did not have a good game and was benched toward the end. The abuse that he got after the game was so bad that he deactivated his Instagram account. And it seems like the NCAA knew this kind of thing goes on because they ran this ad a few days before the game. Let's roll the clip. There's losing and then there's being the loser.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Game time comes with enough pressure.

[Jenny Garth]

Way too often people are betting on.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Sports, losing and taking it out on the athletes.

[Jenny Garth]

Only a loser would harass college athletes after losing a bet, but it happens almost every day. Root for your team, get crazy when.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

The buzzer sounds, but don't harass anyone.

[Jenny Garth]

Because you lost a bet. It's time we draw the line and put an end to the abuse brought to you by the ncaa. The fact that they need to say.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

That, yeah, I think this is a combo of more frequent and common, ubiquitous, really, sports betting plus social media. Because what happens with social media is like, look, people have been complaining about the quarterback for years. By the way, I know that's football, not basketball. The point guard for years. Yes, but you couldn't always funnel that complaining straight to the guy.

[Jenny Garth]

Right. You couldn't find him.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You had to call a sports radio talk show and, like, maybe he'd hear it in passing. Right, Right. And so now you can just go to the source. And that is not a healthy outcome or impulse.

[Jenny Garth]

It just.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

So don't do it.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah, People have lost their minds in general. Our friend Kat Timf, she had this great line that, like, I've never been watching TV and said I have to go find this actor or person on TV and tell them that they're ugly. That has never happened to me. I have never had that sensation.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I've never been.

[Jenny Garth]

I need to find this person and tell them they suck.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I'm a real sports fan and also a real softy. So, like, when. Even when the opposing kicker, I need him to miss a kick. I'm saying football because I'm a big football fan. I was a big basketball fan, but now that I have four children, there's too many basketball games to watch.

[Jenny Garth]

Too many. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

So even when I need the kicker to miss, I'm sad for him that he missed. And I go the opposite direction when it comes to sports and famous people is, if I think you were good, that's when I'll reach out and say, hey, I really enjoyed your work. Like, let's just turn it around, guys. Let's turn it around.

[Jenny Garth]

Nice Southern lady, Mary Catherine.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I will say, I think now that the nil stuff is happening, the name, image and likeness, and a lot of these guys are getting paid, like, pro sports stars and people are. A lot more money is at stake here. Yeah, that's where some of the stakes are higher. And so people are going to get madder. That's part of what's coming along with this.

[Jenny Garth]

Right? And I get that. But I still just think, like, as a culture, this is so insane to me. And the whole thing of, like, just because someone's famous or just because someone's rich, you get to, like, say the worst possible things to them. I hate it. I think there should be pressure to stop people from doing it. Look, if somebody comments on my post and I don't, like, you know, really something vicious, like, I will go find. Find them. Like, I will find them. I will tweet their name. Like, I. I think we need to stop this kind of thing.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, I'm sure we've both gotten it before and I will amplify when something's particularly bad to to just say like, this is the kind of stuff we get. And I'm just like very low rung famous. Like it's not, as I tell my.

[Jenny Garth]

Children, same same, even lower.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It's the nerdiest level of famous niche and people still will be like, oh, I'm super mad at her.

[Jenny Garth]

It's like, okay, my middle son calls it mildly famous. You are mildly famous.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

My children only think it's cool that I have a Wikipedia entry for some reason that gets them.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah, I don't have one.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And I love that mine has a really outdated picture. That's how you know I'm not in charge of it.

[Jenny Garth]

So thanks for joining us on Normally Normale Ly airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcast. Get in touch with us at normally the pod gmail.com. thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

This is Ashley Aetti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You could have lost 10 pounds already if you already started one month ago.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

So are you ready to start today? Find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just 3 minutes at tr.com try fh.com try fh.com results vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise and program goals.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Database on Independent Studies sponsored by Future.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Health Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion at David's Bridal Love is in every stitch, from the initial sketch to the final details. Each style is designed with exquisite craftsmanship. Every wedding gown, bridesmaid look, prom dress and special occasion style in between features handcrafted details filled with love. Come see the magic magic in person. Book an appointment and sign up for diamond loyalty to save 15% on your.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

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[Ashley Iaconetti]

And [e-mail] catch the new Hulu original.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Comedy Mid Century Modern from the creators of Will and Grace, executive producer Ryan Murphy and director James Burrows. When three best friends move in together, Palm Springs will never be the same. There's they're fun, they're fabulous, and they're.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Turning life's lemons into spiked lemonade.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Shake up a batch of cocktails, relax.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

By the pool and get ready for some serious shave. Mid Century Modern stars Nathan Lane, Matt.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Bomer, Nathan Leigh Graham and Linda Lavin.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Mid century modern premieres March 28th. Streaming on Hulu with the best All Inclusive Vacation Deals to Mexico and the Caribbean Booking your getaway with Cheap Caribbean Vacations means you have more freedom to do your deal. Whether you want to enjoy snorkeling, endless margaritas and more, or simply soak up the sun and sand in a trop paradise, Cheap Caribbean Vacations has your deal for that plan and book the exact way you want at exactly the right price for you by using our exclusive Budget Beach Finder. Or find a featured all inclusive package to Iberostar Hotel and Resorts in Jamaica and do your [e-mail] the New Year's Here. It's the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive. From toothpaste to dish soap, chances are you've got Colgate Palmolive products on your shopping list and in your house right now. Now we're talking brands like Colgate Soft Soap, Palmolive, Irish Spring, Fabuloso, and Tom's of Maine. And right now you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate Palmolive products. Here's how it Spend $20 on their products. Get $5 Spend $30 Get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite brands, snap a pic of your receipt and upload it to CPR. It's so easy. That's cprewards.com so grab what you need or maybe try something new and get rewarded just for doing your usual shopping. And start your year fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive rewards available. While supplies last, limit Supply US Only 1125 through 33125 for full terms and conditions, visit cprewards.com.