Normally Podcast: The White House Correspondents' Dinner: A Reflection

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show: Normally Podcast – "The White House Correspondents' Dinner: A Reflection"

Introduction

In the April 29, 2025, episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show titled "Normally Podcast: The White House Correspondents' Dinner: A Reflection," hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into the pressing issues surrounding the justice system, immigration, media accountability, and the dynamics of political discourse in America. The episode offers a comprehensive analysis of recent events, blending insightful commentary with sharp critiques of prevailing societal and political trends.

1. Personal Anecdotes and Initial Discussions [02:42 – 04:09]

The episode opens with Mary Kathryn Ham sharing her recent trip to Charleston, highlighting the rich Southern cuisine she experienced. She mentions dining at Husk, a renowned restaurant, and discusses the affordability of education in South Carolina, specifically referencing the College of Charleston. This personal narrative sets the stage for broader discussions on societal issues.

Notable Quote:

"Charleston is definitely one of my favorite food cities. What did you have?" – Carol Markowitz [03:30]

2. The Controversial Judge Hannah Dugan Case [04:22 – 09:09]

The hosts transition to discussing a high-profile case involving Judge Hannah Dugan of Milwaukee County. Dugan is accused of obstructing justice by facilitating the escape of Eduardo Flores Ruiz, an illegal immigrant with a criminal background, from her courtroom. The incident has sparked widespread confusion and debate over its implications for the justice system.

Notable Quotes:

"Judge Hannah Dugan... she's accused of obstructing justice and concealing Eduardo Flores Ruiz from arrest following a pre-trial hearing last week." – Carol Markowitz [04:22]

"He was a criminal. He was a full-on criminal who she did not want to see get deported despite the fact that she's the judge ruling on this criminal case." – Carol Markowitz [05:11]

Mary Kathryn Ham emphasizes the impact on the victims, questioning the justice system's integrity when a judge appears to side with an accused individual over the victims’ experiences.

3. Media and Political Biases [09:09 – 18:39]

The conversation shifts to the role of media and perceived biases within the press. The hosts critique the White House Correspondents' Dinner, contrasting its receptions under Republican and Democratic administrations. They highlight the differences in tone and participation, especially noting President Trump's absence and the subdued atmosphere during Democratic presidencies.

Notable Quotes:

"David Brooks... they didn't do that." – Carol Markowitz [07:40]

"We are back on normally the show with normal-ish takes for when the news gets weird." – Mary Kathryn Ham [02:42]

Mary Kathryn Ham references David Brooks' commentary, which delves into the moral complexities of Judge Dugan's actions, balancing legality and heroism. The hosts express frustration with media narratives that, in their view, often lack accountability and fail to acknowledge their own errors.

4. Deportation of U.S. Citizen Children [14:37 – 16:26]

A particularly poignant segment addresses the deportation of U.S. citizen children alongside their parents. The hosts discuss a case where a four-year-old child with stage four cancer was deported to Honduras without adequate medical attention. They debate the necessity of compassionate considerations within immigration enforcement.

Notable Quotes:

"On Friday there were three American citizen children born here who were deported along with their mothers from Louisiana down to Honduras... one of them is a four-year-old child with stage four cancer..." – Mary Kathryn Ham [14:37]

"ICE officers do have discretion... They send a message you can enter your country legally, which is a crime. That's okay, you can have due process." – Tom Homan [15:12]

5. Critique of Media Accountability [18:04 – 29:42]

The discussion turns critical of media accountability, particularly focusing on the White House Correspondents' Dinner and the awarding of journalism honors. Alex Thompson's acceptance speech for an award is analyzed, where he acknowledges media shortcomings and the erosion of public trust.

Notable Quotes:

"Our mission is vital in a world where people are struggling to figure out what's true and people with power are not telling the truth." – Alex Thompson [24:55]

"We bear some responsibility for faith in the media being at such lows." – Alex Thompson [25:40]

The hosts commend Alex Thompson for his honesty but express skepticism about the overall media's commitment to truth and accountability, citing examples like April Ryan and Zeke Miller.

6. Reflections on Political Polarization and Civility [29:42 – 36:44]

Clay and Buck delve into the increasing political polarization affecting personal relationships and societal norms. They discuss instances where political affiliations influence social interactions, such as exclusion from community activities based on political stance. The hosts argue that this divisiveness is predominantly driven by the political left.

Notable Quotes:

"This is a sickness. This is a deep sickness. And it is mostly on the left." – Carol Markowitz [36:20]

"Don't do this kind of thing. Live your life. People are going to have different politics." – Mary Kathryn Ham [36:44]

7. Saquon Barkley and Political Neutrality in Personal Choices [34:02 – 35:21]

The episode touches on athlete Saquon Barkley's interactions with political figures, highlighting his neutral stance despite criticism for golfing with President Trump. The hosts praise Barkley's ability to maintain personal relationships beyond political affiliations.

Notable Quotes:

"I generally like Saquon Barkley a lot, team affiliation notwithstanding, he just seems like a nice person." – Mary Kathryn Ham [34:21]

"He just seems rather sane. There were your bestie guy Benson shared a story..." – Carol Markowitz [35:21]

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts [35:50 – 37:21]

In their closing remarks, Travis and Sexton emphasize the importance of maintaining civility and personal relationships despite political differences. They encourage listeners to "act normally" and not let political affiliations dictate personal interactions.

Notable Quotes:

"Live your life. Thanks for joining us on Normally." – Carol Markowitz [36:59]

"When things get weird, act normally." – Mary Kathryn Ham [37:03]

Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Travis and Sexton underscore the fragility of the American justice system and the media's role in shaping public perception. They highlight the dangers of political polarization and advocate for personal responsibility in maintaining societal cohesion. The hosts call for greater accountability within the media and the judiciary, urging listeners to seek truth beyond partisan narratives and to preserve civility in an increasingly divided nation.

Notable Quotes Summary

• "Judge Hannah Dugan... she's accused of obstructing justice..." – Carol Markowitz [04:22]
• "He was a criminal... she did not want to see get deported..." – Carol Markowitz [05:11]
• "Our mission is vital in a world where people are struggling to figure out what's true..." – Alex Thompson [24:55]
• "This is a sickness. This is a deep sickness. And it is mostly on the left." – Carol Markowitz [36:20]
• "When things get weird, act normally." – Mary Kathryn Ham [37:03]

Conclusion

This episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show offers a critical examination of current events, blending personal anecdotes with incisive commentary on systemic issues. By addressing topics such as judicial misconduct, media responsibility, and political polarization, Travis and Sexton provide listeners with a thought-provoking analysis aimed at fostering informed and balanced perspectives in turbulent times.

Transcript

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Hey guys, we are back on normally the show with normal ish takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kathryn Ham.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz. Hi, Mary Kathryn. How was your week?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It was pretty good. I was in Charleston, so I ate like 17 meals in two days.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, yeah. Charleston is definitely one of my favorite food cities. What did you have?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Mostly Southern food. Because I don't get as much great Southern food in D.C. although I went by a creperie that someone suggested because there is the French Quarter in Charleston. But I had dinner at Husk because I got a 5pm reservation for one. And I was like, yes, I will take it. And by the way, welcome to South Carolina. Price is so reasonable. So reasonable.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

I keep thinking I have to look up, like, what colleges are there because I kind of want to direct my kids to go that in that direction.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. College of Charleston I don't think is like any big bargain, like, you probably pay for it, but it is a lovely place.

[Carol Markowitz]

Okay.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I have some friends who want to.

[Carol Markowitz]

Look at that because I worry about my kids ending up in some like, you know, Michigan or something.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Oh, my gosh. Hillsdale's gonna curse your name now, Carol.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love Hillsdale. I love Hillsdale. I was actually, when I was. When I said that, I was picturing Ann Arbor and.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Fair enough. Okay.

[Carol Markowitz]

Them in Ann Arbor and me coming to visit. If they go to Hillsdale, I could live with. I could live with the weather. We can make it happen.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I understand. I, too, am too soft for Ann Arbor and the temperature and have questions about the ideology.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Oh, my goodness. All righty.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's been a few days of lots and lots of news. I think the biggest story is a judge that helped an illegal immigrant escape from her courtroom. And I think a lot of people are confused about the details of the story. So we're going to break it down. But Judge Hannah Dugan, who has been on the Milwaukee county bench for nearly a decade, she's accused of obstructing justice and concealing Eduardo Flores Ruiz from arrest following a pre trial hearing last week. So I think what a lot of people don't realize, and I. And I've heard people comment about this on. On the Internet, he was not in her courtroom for that pre trial hearing. He was there because he beat up somebody and really hurt them.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. Accused of punching someone 30 times in the face over a dispute.

[Carol Markowitz]

Over a dispute about loud music. So, you know, not that it's better or worse one way or the other, but I think a lot of people think that she was doing the pretrial hearing for his deportation and maybe took Pity on him because he was such a good guy. No, he was a criminal. He was a full on criminal who she did not want to see get deported despite the fact that she's the judge ruling on this criminal case.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. Can I also just like interject here with, like, when you have any experience with the justice system and you realize his victims, alleged victims, I guess he was not yet convicted. Or maybe he was. Anyway, they're there to be witnesses. They're there to help this process.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I'm sure they've been waiting for justice for quite some time. They block out their entire day, probably take off work, go to confront someone who's quite scary, who's allegedly already beaten them. Right. And then he's just whisked away by the judge in their case to escape federal law enforcement. How does that feel if you're a victim?

[Carol Markowitz]

Not good, I imagine. Not good. And it really throws into question our whole system. Right. Her attorney. So she gets arrested and her attorney, during the proceeding says Judge Dugan wholeheartedly regrets and protests her arrest. It was not made in the interest of public safety. I don't know what any of those words mean. Like, those are a bunch of random words put into a sentence that make no sense. She regrets and protests her arrest. And the arrest was not made in the interest of public safety. Still committed a crime potentially. So that's why the arrest was made, whether or not it was for public safety. The ICE comes into her courtroom during that incident with a warrant for Flores Ruiz's arrest. They're not just nabbing him off the street. They have a warrant to arrest him. He had been deported from the US once before in 2013. Again, somebody who broke the law, broke it again, committed crimes while in America. And this judge is like, let me usher you out the back door. Which is what she does. She takes him to through a door meant only for juries. And this is where we are in America today.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, and of course, the, the left is like, you can't do stuff like this in America. And our friend Stephen Miller, Red Steez on X says, everyone, take off your no one is above the law hats and put on your arresting members of the opposition party as Banana Republic Stu Windbreakers, because they do just switch whenever they feel like it. Right. Because as long as you're executing a warrant on Trump or fabricating charges for Trump.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

That's all above board. As long as you're protecting Hunter Biden or this guy, that's all above board. It's all completely situational. Calvin Ball. And I'm sick of it. And the idea that people who have entered our country illegally, at the very least, just keep your nose clean while you're here.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Like this idea that people have to have six chances be deported once, come back, do some more crimes and beatings.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And then this woman's going to be like lionized.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

For protecting you over the American citizens that you have allegedly beaten. I just, it's driving me insane.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's bananas. And you know, America voted for Donald Trump to deal with this issue. And so I have to imagine, for example, the conservatives on the New York Times editorial page, opinion page, they must be really happy about this. Right, Mary Katherine?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Oh, yeah. Can we hear a little bit from David Brooks about this? And we'll break down this clip after he has his say. But here he is talking about this judge.

[David Brooks]

Well, obviously they're trying to send a note of intimidation not only to her, but to all judges and maybe to all Americans. But I don't yet know the specific details of this case, whether she escorted the guy out the jury door or whether she's let him. So that's all murky. I don't want to comment on this specific case, but especially on the issue of immigration, there are a lot of people who are appalled by what the administration is doing. And there will be times for civil disobedience. And to me, if she, let's say she did escort this guy out the door, if federal enforcement agencies come to your courtroom and you help a guy escape, that is two things. One, it strikes me as maybe something illegal, but it also strikes me as something heroic. And in times of trouble, then people are sometimes called to do civil disobedience. And in my view, when people do civil disobedience, they have to pay the price. That's part of the heroism of it, frankly. And so you can both think that she shouldn't have legally done this and that morally protecting somebody against, maybe not even in this case, but in other cases, frankly, a predatory enforcement agency.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, for real, like, what are we talking about here? He's a criminal.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Also, just I don't know the details of this case, but let's talk about.

[Carol Markowitz]

But I'm talking about it anyway. Yeah, that's actually a classic.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, let's not his most recent call or an April column he wrote, by the way, is what's happening is not normal. America needs an uprising that is not normal. Sure, try that again. This is insane to me and it's such a moral cop out. Just to be like, everything that we want to do as resistance is morally justified. Because I say so when. I mean, when we were resisting by sending children to school without masks, it was like, how dare you?

[Carol Markowitz]

How dare you mock everyone to die. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And then look. Yes, civil disobedience is sometimes called for. The idea that civil disobedience on behalf of this person whose needs are being put above the justice required for his alleged victims is. That's amoral. That's amoral. And then there's. There's the other judge out in New Mexico who was allegedly harboring a trend illegal immigrant. And it's. Yeah, I think that if you are credibly accused of these crimes that you should be arrested.

[Carol Markowitz]

Absolutely. And deported. It's so not. Sorry, not the judge is deported, but we should be deporting.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You know, don't give Trump any ideas.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This is an easy call. And the fact that the Democrats have decided to make this their last stand is just wild to me.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

One, one more point, just tangent on illegal immigration. Someone really hit the lotto in the bad way because did you see that the persons accused of taking the purse of Kristi Noem, head of Department of Homeland Security, were found to be here illegally? Like, oh, you crapped out, man. That was the wrong.

[Carol Markowitz]

That was the wrong bag.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Exact. Wrong purse to pick up, my friend.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, it's sad. You know, I was thinking about this, but it's a lot of this is. It's a problem for the Trump administration, truly, how quickly they solve the border, because.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah, I know.

[Carol Markowitz]

I think David Brooks is probably hitting something correct here, which is people are going to have their little heartstrings pulled about how these deportations are happening. These people entered illegally and they're being kicked out, and how dare we, really. But when the border crisis was going on, people understood why that was necessary. Now that it's not, it's like you have this huge win, but people have short memories and you have the David Brooks's of the world feeling sorry for these violent illegal immigrants.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

No, I do think they sort of took that issue away from themselves by proving so quickly how they could fix it. That, of course, also proves that Biden was full of it for four years, letting it happen. This is why I think a lot of voters, and I myself will give them some leeway on enforcement now. When they make a mistake, they should correct that mistake. But there will be some issues because Biden has given them a 10 million person problem. I saw a piece on. It was A San Francisco paper. So you know, figures that was like unfathomable that some Irish green card holder who had a decades old convict conviction came back into the country and was held and questioned about this. You have a conviction.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You're a green card holder. You went out of the country and re entered thereby subjecting yourself to normal screening that would happen in this case. I don't find that unfathomable.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. It's very.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I find that fathomable. Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

But they are going to try to pull at our heartstrings. Here is a clip of Tom Homan being subjected to exactly that.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

On Friday there were three American citizen children born here who were deported along with their mothers from Louisiana down to Honduras. And according to advocates, one of them is a four year old child with stage four cancer, a rare form of metastatic cancer who was sent back to Honduras without getting to talk to a doctor and without medication. I understand this child's mother entered this country illegally, but isn't there some basis for compassionate consideration here that should have allowed for more consultation or treatment?

[Tom Homan]

Well, it's certainly discretion. I'm not aware of the specific case, but no US citizen child was deported. Deported means you got to be ordered deported by the immigration judge. We don't report US citizens.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

The mother was deported along with the children.

[Tom Homan]

The children aren't deported. The mother chose to take the children with her. When you enter the country illegally and you know you're here illegally and you choose to have your assistant child, that's on you. That's not on this administration. If you choose to put your family in that position, that's on them. But having a US citizen child after you enter this country legally is not a get out of jail free card. It doesn't make you immune from our laws. If that's the message we send to the entire world, women are going to keep putting themselves at risk to come to this country. We send a message you can enter your country legally, which is a crime. That's okay, you can have due process. Great taxpayer expense, get ordered and moved. That's okay, don't leave. But have a US citizen child and you're immune from removal. That's not the way it works.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

So you don't think there should be compassionate consideration for a four year old child undergoing treatment for cancer?

[Tom Homan]

I didn't say that, I said.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, that was the question.

[Tom Homan]

ICE officers do have discretion. Yeah, ICE officers do have discretion. I'm not familiar with the specific case. I don't know what facts are on this case. I just made aware of this when you mentioned this morning. I was not aware of that case.

[Carol Markowitz]

I think Tom Homan is amazing. I think he's doing a fantastic job and he's very good at his job. But Margaret Brennan deserves the J.D. vance treatment. In all of her interviews, she is a full on activist pretending to be even remotely a journalist. This is just absurd tactics and he said all the right things. I just think that his level of respect is way too high and she deserves to have to be told. I really don't care, Margaret, all the time.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, a couple of thoughts about this, this type of story in particular about children. Yes, it is perfectly positioned to make, to pull people's heartstrings. With good reason. Right. These are young children. As he noted, the moms are opting to take the children with them. Again, understandably, I would do the same if I were in a country illegally and then asked to leave. But it's a great story for the activist press because on one hand, if the child goes with the mother, the child is, quote, deported.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

If the child does not go with the mother, family separation.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Win, win.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Either way, the press gets the story they want, which is mean, mean Trump administration. And that's just not realistic. And I think many Americans have looked at the situation around them and gone that, that way of doing business that he describes as a hypothetical is not realistic. By the way, again, can I go back to the rights of American citizens?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

American citizens accused of crimes and going through the criminal justice system are routinely separated from their children.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

That is not something that gets you a get out of jail free card. If you live in this country and are a citizen, why should other people get a different standard?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. All of this is a really strange situation for Democrats to find themselves in. I think that they're going to be on the losing side of this. I hope they're on the losing side of this. I hope Americans remember the crisis that got us here in the first place and who was responsible for that crisis.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, if I know Margaret Brennan, she's going to take up the cause of the guys who stole Kristi Noem's bag next. Like this is just a civil rights issue, like you. This is a human rights issue to be able to take Kristi Noem's bag.

[Carol Markowitz]

We'll be right back on normally.

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Speaking of Margaret Brennan. Yeah, I was not at the White House Correspondents Dinner.

[Carol Markowitz]

Why not?

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

You know, as much as I would have loved sitting between Margaret Brennan and Sunny Hostin for the dinnertime lobotomy, I was not there. I was out of town in Charleston. This is an annual whole list of parties that journalists throw themselves in Washington dc. I've been before. It can be plenty of fun to show up at a party or two. I do not begrudge people a party or two every once in a while, but it is this like ridiculous display of self importance by journalists and it depends on who's in office, right? If a Democrat's in office, the President comes to the event and he's like, tells a few jokes and everybody hearty har. A bunch of celebrities from Hollywood come, the glitterati shows up, everybody takes pictures together. It's a really glorious occasion when there's a Republican in office, particularly Trump. This started in the Trump era. Trump doesn't show up to the dinner. And they really tamp down the festivities because during this time, somber, somber, somber. Important journalism is happening. Unlike the Democratic years when it's just like we're just hanging with the President. That's all we're doing. So this year, somber. And an ABC tweet really characterized it when they were like, there was no president, there was no comedian, just the First Amendment.

[Carol Markowitz]

Stop it.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Can I tell you also, and again, the straight face. Can I tell you also that in that tweet, the thumbnail is of the head of the White House Correspondents association, who's now an MSNBC host. Eugene Daniels is the thumbnail, who's the president of the White House Correspondents association right now. And it's like this very serious tweet and then a thumbnail of him in a white satin tux with a cravat. And it's like, okay, like, I don't begrudge you your finery, but I would, I would have picked something different to juxtapose in that tweet. At any rate, everyone got together and celebrated themselves. They give out a few scholarships. That was ostensibly the whole reason for the dinner years ago. Just, yeah, the way these folks congratulate themselves. Alex Thompson was given an award. Alex Thompson is the Axios reporter who, credit where it was due, did do some reporting on Biden's decline when others would not. Now, this reporting started in like 2024. It was not 2021 reporting. You and I didn't get awards for our tweets and commentary starting in 2021. Nonetheless, I will say it is a slight improvement for the White House Correspondents association to give an award for someone who did do the right thing, although somewhat belatedly right in the past. What they would have done is given an award for whoever was best at gaslighting. So they didn't do that. They didn't do that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Okay, slight improvement, I guess.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

But let's hear Alex accept this award. He's, by the way, the co author of the Jake Tapper Alex Thompson book Original Sin. All of these books coming out saying, like, yeah, this guy was totally not going to last four more days, much less four more years after inauguration. But here's his acceptance.

[Alex Thompson]

One serious note to my bones. I believe that reporting and the White House Correspondence association is as necessary as ever. President Biden's decline and its cover up by the people around him is a reminder that every White House, regardless of party, is capable of deception. But being truth tellers also means telling the truth about ourselves. We, myself included, missed a lot of this story, and some people trust us less because of it. We bear some responsibility for faith in the media being at such lows.

[Carol Markowitz]

Some. Some responsibility.

[Alex Thompson]

I say this because acknowledging errors builds trust and being defensive about them further erodes it. We should have done better. I believe our mission is vital in a world where people are struggling to figure out what's true and people with power are not telling the truth. I also believe that this association has been, is, and will continue to be critical to that mission.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. You know, as late as 2023, Alex Thompson tweeted, Biden's weird phrases are sometimes weaponized by the GOP to insinuate the 80 year old President is in mental decline. He is one of the better ones. He really is. I hate to criticize him too much, except that he won this award and we deserve that award.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, I struggle with this because people are having very different reactions to it. I want to say, first of all, if I were in that room, you wouldn't be able to shut me up. Like, after that line, I would have been standing up with a T shirt cannon, screaming with an air horn like it is like the playoffs, just like applauding that line alone. Just because they so rarely hear this and they so rarely have one of their sort of sanctioned leaders say this. So I want to incentivize that behavior, and I think that that's important now. It was so gentle.

[Carol Markowitz]

It was super gentle. Obviously.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It was so gentle. Yeah. Would love it to be more in your face, like, take the Scott Jennings tone with these people. But I understand that this is the audience he's trying to reach. It's also an audience he needs to be friendly with. Right. You know, there's two things going on there. I think the press corps would be a lot better off if more of them were Alex Thompson. But as I pointed out in that clip, if you see April Ryan, who's another prominent member of the White House press corps, you see April Ryan in that clip take a sip of her water and kind of roll her eyes and shake her head at this idea that they're responsible for any of this, the press corps has a lot more April Ryan's than it does Alex Thompson's facts. Like just the total disregard for the idea that they might have screwed up.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. The AP's Zeke Miller also spoke and one of the lines that he said was, we at AP remain committed as ever to accurate, independent, nonpartisan journalism. I mean, nobody believes they have any of that in 2012. Zeke Miller and our friend John Echdel, who always says, there's too many women on this show. So we're going to quote John, he tweeted out Zeke Miller's tweet from 2012 where he tweeted, romney motorcade just passed a hill flying a large Confederate flag in rural southwest Virginia.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Good stuff.

[Carol Markowitz]

This is the kind of coverage that Republicans used to get as such a normal matter. Of course. And of course they still do under Trump. It's just now Donald Trump has two middle fingers to the press corps. But this was a large story. This became a multi day story that the motorcade had passed. Had passed, not had stopped and saluted like you might be thinking.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

No.

[Carol Markowitz]

Drove by a hill flying a Confederate flag, which I have to say, I have driven by Confederate flags. And so I think I must be. Justice called.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Shouldn't have said that on tape. No, it is, what Alex says is there are people in power who are not telling the truth and people are trying to figure out what the truth is. True.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Y'all are the people in power not telling the truth most of the time. And that doesn't mean that Trump is always telling the truth. It just means that you need to get your act together.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Trump is a direct reaction to Romney's motorcade drove by a large Confederate flag tweet. He is. You could draw the line. And they should, they should draw that line for themselves so that they really understand that this is on them.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Well, and I, I'm a person who wants to find the truth. And I feel like I read critically and I try to figure out, even when people are on my side, if they're messing up or if, or if they're lying to me. But here's, here's the thing is, like particularly post Covid, I was always suspicious, but particularly post Covid, if you assume on a story that the media is really fired up about, call it the Jussie standard, if you assume that they're lying to you, you're gonna be better off. You're gonna search for more facts. You're gonna find the real story. In the case of these deported children, I was like saw a couple headlines and was like, oh, that sounds really bad. Let me look into it.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

This might be a regrettable situation. That is nonetheless not what they're telling me it is.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh yeah, that's always my first assumption. Now there's absolutely no story that I believe at face value. None.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yeah. And by the way, the Biden story is a perfect example of this. If you looked for the countervailing evidence which was right in front of your eyeballs, you would see that they are messing with you. I loved that. That ABC self important tweet, by the way, started with there was no President. And what they meant was that Trump didn't show up to this dinner. And I retweeted it and was like, this is a four years old headline. There was no president. You're right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, you're right. We're gonna take a short break and come right back with normally.

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

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[Carol Markowitz]

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[Carol Markowitz]

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[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Lavender.

[Carol Markowitz]

Cleans like Clorox and feels like hmm.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Let's end on a feel good note here, okay Saquon Barkley we hate the Eagles. And by we I mean me.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

I can't hate the Eagles because they draft every Georgia Bulldog, so I just have to fine, be on board.

[Carol Markowitz]

Okay, Half of the hosts of this show hate the Eagles.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Fair enough.

[Carol Markowitz]

But I really did appreciate that Saquon Barkley told critics of his who didn't like that he golfed with the President and flew to the White House with Trump that they, you know, they didn't like that. They criticized him and he told them to go pal and stand. And I quite like that.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Yes, here's his quote because of course he was pictured with Trump and he says lol. Some people are really upset because I played golf and flew to the White House with the all caps president.

[David Brooks]

Maybe.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Maybe I just respect the office. Not a hard concept to understand. Just golfed with Obama not too long ago and look forward to finishing my round with Trump. Now you get out my mentions with all this politics and have an amazing day. I generally like Saquon Barkley a lot, team affiliation notwithstanding, he just seems like a nice person. This is the way. Yeah, this is the way.

[Carol Markowitz]

Very much the way.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

And I hope he turned off his comments and moved on with his day and went to play golf.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, I'm sure he did do that because that is the sane thing to do. And he seems rather sane. There were your your bestie guy Benson shared a story about a friend of his. Not a Trump voter. This is the key part of the story. Not a Trump voter. Middle of the road Gu invited to play in a pickleball league in D.C. got kicked out of the league for not being a Republican or a Democrat and just saying he's a moderate and no longer invited to play.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Complicit.

[Carol Markowitz]

Complicit Carol and his friend who brought him to the league was said that he hadn't properly vetted him. And that's, you know, and I also mentioned there was a story in the New York Times this week, a woman writes in that her husband who does not talk to his own parents, already has no relationship with his own parents, wants the wife to cut off the relationship she has with her parents because, well, they voted for the wrong person.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Oh, come on.

[Carol Markowitz]

This is a sickness. This is a deep sickness. And it is mostly on the left. It is absolutely mostly on the left.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

It is something that just polling bears this out. Like there's, there are plenty of surveys that show that right leaning people are more willing to be friends with people of the left, that they cut off relationships less quickly. That they cut off, they cut off relationships less often. This is a, this is a actual data point.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right. Don't do this, friends. Really, you know, when we, when we tell you to act normally at the end of the show, this is what we mean. Don't do this kind of thing. Live your life. People are going to have different politics. Even when they have the same politics, you might still find reason to disagree.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Sometimes you could do worse than living life like sacred. That's perfect.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Live your life. Thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Clorox Santiva smells.

[Mary Kathryn Ham]

Like lavender.

[Carol Markowitz]

Cleans like Clorox.

[Unknown Advertiser]

And feels.

[Carol Markowitz]

Like hmm.

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