Normally Podcast: Trade Deals, 2025 Politics & FAFO Parenting

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Normally Podcast: Trade Deals, 2025 Politics & FAFO Parenting
Release Date: July 29, 2025
Host/Authors: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton
Platform: iHeartPodcasts

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1. Introduction

In this episode of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show," hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into pressing topics such as recent trade deals, the political landscape leading up to 2025, and evolving parenting styles. Balancing insightful analysis with their characteristic humor, the duo offers listeners a comprehensive overview of current events and societal shifts.

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2. Trade Deals and Tariffs

Discussion Highlights:

• US-European Union Trade Deal: President Donald Trump announced a new trade agreement with the European Union, introducing a 15% tariff on most European goods entering the US. However, certain products like cars, aircraft components, chemicals, and pharmaceuticals remain tariff-exempt.

• European Commission's Response: Ursula von der Leyen emphasized that the new tariffs would not compound existing ones, aiming to stabilize trade relations ahead of the August tariff deadline.

• Impact of Tariffs: While both hosts express reservations about the reliance on tariffs, they acknowledge the progress made in reaching agreements. Buck mentions, “I don’t love the way this is happening because I think it’s unwieldy to put 165 trade deals on one’s plate” ([05:35]).

• Broader Tariff Implications: Trump hinted at a potential global tariff of 15-20%, which could disrupt businesses' ability to forecast costs, a fundamental aspect of capitalism. Clay adds, “The ability for businesses to anticipate the cost of doing business is one of the core and most important underpinnings of capitalism that we both love” ([06:05]).

• Economic Outcomes: Despite concerns, Buck notes that the economic repercussions have been less severe than anticipated, with indicators like gas prices and egg costs showing promising trends. “Cheaper eggs, better for both of us,” Buck remarks, highlighting the importance of affordable protein for families ([09:30]).

Notable Quotes:

• Buck Sexton: “Donald Trump really likes tariffs and he really likes deal making. So like he's happy and he promised this, so here we are” ([05:42]).
• Clay Travis: “Sometimes less bad than you thought it was possibly going to be is just kind of the thing” ([08:07]).

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3. 2025 Politics and Election Analysis

Discussion Highlights:

• Trump’s Foreign Policy Approval: Despite global turmoil, Republican trust in foreign policy remains robust. Harry Enten’s analysis on CNN reveals that Republicans hold a six-point lead over Democrats in July polls, with figures like the Wall Street Journal reporting an eight-point advantage ([18:47]).

• Media Perception and Trust: The hosts criticize mainstream media for undermining Trump’s achievements, which in turn erodes public trust. “Their pathological inability to give him credit for anything ever just continues to erode people's confidence in mainstream media” ([21:41]).

• Implications for Midterm Elections: The episode discusses the potential challenges Republicans may face in the upcoming midterms, particularly in swing districts. Jasmine Crockett, a Texas congresswoman with a strong Democratic base (D+30), is highlighted as a figure who may not resonate in more competitive districts. “If Jasmine Crockett ends up being a very noticeable national spokesperson for the Democratic Party, that could spell trouble for them” ([24:32]).

• Democratic Campaign Challenges: The hosts point out operational weaknesses within the Democratic Party, such as a lack of experienced campaign operatives due to inactivity during the Obama years and the COVID-19 pandemic. This has potentially hindered their ability to compete effectively in future elections.

• State-Specific Races: Specific races, such as the Virginia governor’s race and North Carolina’s Senate race, are analyzed for their broader implications on national politics. Republican candidate Winsome Earl Sears faces challenges against Democrat Abigail Spanberger, while Roy Cooper’s Senate bid in North Carolina is anticipated to be highly competitive ([30:12]).

Notable Quotes:

• Clay Travis: “The ability for businesses to anticipate the cost of doing business is one of the core and most important underpinnings of capitalism that we both love” ([06:05]).
• Buck Sexton: “Despite everything that's going on in the world right now, Republicans are more trusted on Democrats when it comes to foreign policy and the world at large” ([18:47]).
• Buck Sexton: “We have a kind of congressional delegate who is not going to reach swing districts and is likely to repel them in very serious ways” ([24:34]).

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4. FAFO Parenting vs. Gentle Parenting

Discussion Highlights:

• FAFO Parenting Defined: "FAFO" stands for "F Around and Find Out," a parenting style that prioritizes consequences over gentle approaches. This method emphasizes that if children break rules, parents will not always step in to mitigate repercussions.

• Contrasting Styles: The hosts share personal anecdotes illustrating the effectiveness of FAFO parenting compared to gentle methods. Buck recounts enforcing strict consequences when his child forgot lunch, such as providing "emergency beef jerky" to incentivize responsibility ([40:27]).

• Practical Applications: Clay emphasizes the need to adjust incentive structures to prevent children from learning that negative behaviors are the key to gaining attention. “You have to switch the incentive structure or else they will read all day that screaming is what gets them what they want” ([42:28]).

• Challenges with Multiple Children: Managing differing emotional needs becomes more complex with multiple children, leading parents to adopt more structured and consequence-driven approaches to maintain order and fairness.

• Cultural Shift: The move towards FAFO parenting reflects a broader cultural shift away from the softer, more empathetic methods that have previously shaped generations like Gen Z. The hosts argue that FAFO offers more tangible life lessons and accountability for children.

Notable Quotes:

• Buck Sexton: “FAFO is based on the idea that parents can ask and warn, but if a child breaks the rules, mom and dad aren't standing in the way of repercussions” ([36:12]).
• Clay Travis: “You have to switch the incentive structure or else they will read all day that screaming is what gets them what they want” ([42:28]).
• Buck Sexton: “I’m like Bruce Willis in Die Hard. Like, welcome to the party, pal. This is what we've been doing over here” ([37:54]).

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5. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with personal stories from the hosts, reinforcing the theme of accountability and structured parenting. They reflect on the challenges of balancing economic insights with family responsibilities, emphasizing the importance of adaptability both in politics and personal life. The discussion underscores the interconnectedness of economic policies, political strategies, and societal norms, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on navigating complex contemporary issues.

Final Thoughts:

• The interplay between economic decisions and political trust remains a critical factor influencing upcoming elections.
• Parenting strategies like FAFO may become increasingly relevant as families seek effective methods to foster responsibility and resilience in children.
• The hosts encourage listeners to stay informed and adaptable, both in their personal lives and in their understanding of broader societal changes.

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Notable Excerpts:

• Trade Agreement Insight: “The ability for businesses to anticipate the cost of doing business is one of the core and most important underpinnings of capitalism that we both love” ([06:05]).
• Political Trust Analysis: “Despite everything that's going on in the world right now, Republicans are more trusted on Democrats when it comes to foreign policy and the world at large” ([18:47]).
• Parenting Philosophy: “FAFO is based on the idea that parents can ask and warn, but if a child breaks the rules, mom and dad aren't standing in the way of repercussions” ([36:12]).

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show" episode titled "Normally Podcast: Trade Deals, 2025 Politics & FAFO Parenting." For a deeper understanding and more detailed conversations, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Host 1]

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[Host 1]

Hey guys.

[Host 5]

We are back on normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. Carol is enjoying her vacation and her all of her various trips. And we have with us Kelly Maher from the beautiful state of Colorado joining us once again to make sense of some of the news. How's it going, Kelly?

[Host 1]

Making sense. Ish of some of the news. Ish.

[Host 5]

We do our best. This is what we try to provide. That's what we do. I have just come from a seven hour odyssey of dropping kids at camp and then driving back with other kids from said camp. So I dropped two bigs at camp. Two Littles came with me. Two littles are now in bed so that I can do my work. So we did it.

[Host 1]

You did it.

[Host 5]

It sounds exhausting. And I guess my older kids are enjoying themselves. I don't know. I won't hear from them. They're. They said to me or one of them said to me as I left, bye mom. Love you. Have fun doing our chores while we're gone. And I was like, this is what I paid good money for. This is what I paid.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I like a little bit of sass. I think that's good.

[Host 5]

It's good. This is what I get for making them independent and helpful. Yeah, I have to pay the price when they're gone. Okay, shall we talk about what's going on in the news? Okay. We've got yet another trade deal. President Donald Trump announced Sunday that the US Reached a trade deal with the European Union following pivotal discussions with European Commission President Ursula von der Leeven. How is that her name? Days before the August tariff deadline, Trump said the deal imposes a 15% tariff on most European goods to the US including cars, some products, including aircrafts and their components, some chemicals and pharmaceuticals will not be subject to tariffs. Von der Leyen said in a briefing after the agreement was announced. She also said that the new 15% tariff rate would not be added to any tariffs already in effect. This is you know, this is on the heels of the Japan deal. So substance of the deals aside, it does appear that he's making the deals. Right. And my, my position on the, on the tariffs is that I don't love it. You know, I'm not a huge fan of the way this is happening because I think it's UNW to put 165 trade deals on one's plate when one is doing many other things. However, Donald Trump really likes tariffs and he really likes deal making. So like he's happy and he promised this, so here we are. But progress better than not making deals. So I'm okay with that part.

[Host 1]

I mean, you and I tend to both be fairly free markety type of people.

[Host 5]

Right.

[Host 1]

And therefore are tariff skeptical generally as a policy. However, he also, Trump also mentioned that he's thinking it's likely there's going to be a 15 to 20% worldwide tariff just kind of across the board. And if that's the baseline that everybody just basically charges everybody else it all. I'm not saying that it all comes out in the wash, but it then does become just. And the ability for businesses to anticipate the cost of doing business. Right. And being able to anticipate the cost of doing business is one of the core and most important underpinnings of capitalism that we both love.

[Host 5]

Yeah, pretty, pretty important stuff. Some have noted that the White House's fact sheet differs from the story that the European Union is telling. So we'll see how that comes out in the wash. I mean such is the like danger of doing a lot of deals quite quickly. Normally these things take a lot of time and many people to be involved in them. And I would, I don't think that's a perfect system. I think it probably took too long to make free trade deals in the past. And as always with Donald Trump, the pendulum just woo swings. But I would say that I was worried about what the first six months of his presidency would look like economically because of the announcement of Liberation Day and what that would mean for international trade. That does not mean there haven't been costs for small businesses, for people who really have had hurdles thrown up in their way, people who have had to change business plans on a dime, even in large corporations because of these ever changing plans. But as a larger picture, the effect has not been what I thought it might be on the economy in any sort of in a large negative way.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 5]

Yeah, I know I'm damning with faint praise, but like I'm a skeptic so that's where I am.

[Host 1]

Right, right. Sometimes less bad than you thought it was possibly going to be is just kind of. It's the thing that we've talked about over and over again because like, maybe it's all just kind of fine. Right. It's not always the best, but it's not this doom and gloom that we keep being sold as coming down the pipe.

[Host 5]

Well, and that a lot of us, perhaps even all the countries who are dealing with Trump are doing the same thing we're doing, which is like, maybe it'll all come out in the wash. Like that's sort of, sort of where everyone is in the way that they're dealing with this. So he's got that going for him. I do think, you know, gas prices look promising for him. Inflation has ticked down. Even though of course cost of living still feels very tough on people. Egg prices way down. Because that was a, a specific problem that was called, caused by a specific thing that is to some extent been relieved and here we are.

[Host 1]

So, and as, as moms of collectively six children amongst the two of us, the access to cheap protein is very important to people and eggs is a huge way to do that.

[Host 5]

My five year old, the eggs were killing me, man.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I know you and I both do pretty high protein and we both consume a lot of eggs, as do all of our children. And I mean my five year old eats between six and eight eggs every day.

[Host 5]

She has very.

[Host 1]

I have very strong children and I have gigantic children. And when they are teenagers, I will be.

[Host 5]

You're going to be broke. I'm going to have to give you a GoFundMe. So Hugh Hewitt once asked me how many eggs my family eats per week. And I was like, I couldn't even tell you because my husband orders so many of them from Costco that there's just an ever supplied stack of them in there in like large industrial, straight from the farm cartons that are like expanded. And so I couldn't tell you, I can't keep count. Point being, cheaper eggs, better for both of us. And we are not just political junkies, but mom voters who people should be interested in reaching.

[Host 1]

It's true. Yeah. We don't buy the cartons, we buy the boxes. Right.

[Host 5]

It's a pallet. It's a pallet of eggs.

[Host 1]

It's true. One thing I talked to you about earlier today, Mary Katherine, was an interesting article that came across my Twitter and my text today was about the housing market.

[Host 5]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And that's, that's actually a Different economic indicator that I'm paying attention to right now, but that some of these very large home home builders are hitting new and high levels of having to incentivize people getting into new homes. And you know me, I'm an economic nerd. Right. And so I was reading some of these indices, some of these indicators that are coming out, and we're seeing new inventory on the market at levels that we haven't seen since 2009. And the last six times that we have seen levels this high of new homes that people aren't moving on. Yeah. That are just sitting on the shelf, if you will, but they're sitting on their lots of land without families moving into them. Five out of the last six times that we have hit these levels, it has then been followed with a recession.

[Host 5]

Okay, So a good canary in the coal mine, perhaps, for people to be paying attention to. And this is something that I think is important, particularly for political people who work on political campaigns, people who are into politics, who have partisan designs on who they would like to win. You do want to be looking out for things to be worried about. Right. You don't just go like everything's peachy keen. You do need to watch out for what the things are. That could be the arguments you need to be making a year from now. And one of those arguments may be on a broader sort of optimism about people investing in new properties, an issue with interest rates. I think our family is a great example of a family that if interest rates were lower, we would probably look at upgrading to a larger house because we are stacked like an aircraft carrier in here, but we are just like, let the kids all be in one room, it's fine. Let them destroy the nursery together. And that's good and healthy to some extent.

[Host 1]

Good for character building, it is, but.

[Host 5]

For the economy, I'm sure, like, we're the kind of family that people would. We'd be the perfect case that would be like, oh, yeah, we'll, we'll upgrade at this point. But we have chosen not to do that at these rate levels. So I think that's something that will be part of the landscape when it comes to 2026. Okay, we're going to talk about a little bit more about Trump's fortunes, what that means for 2026. Some other warning signs when we are back on normal.

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[Host 5]

All right, we are back on normally and I want to play. It's become a little bit of a tradition on Normale Ly to play Harry Entin, who is the data guy over at cnn. And he's always, I like Harry Enton. I think he's smart. And one thing I like about him is that he understands what's newsworthy. And what's newsworthy are results that the audience is not expecting but are nonetheless based in data. Okay. That can be jarring for the audience and it can also be jarring for the people hosting the show at cnn where he's constantly giving them Trump numbers that make them go, surely that can't be right, Harry. And he's like, it is. And stop calling me Shirley. He's like, every time. He's like, well, so. And you and I talk about this all the time. Trump is a cat falling off a counter. Like somehow things come together. He has a sort of savant nature of finding the right place to be. And in this case, this is foreign policy. And I think he's earned this one. But it is funny to watch Harry explain it to cnn. So let's do a minute of that clip of Harry talking to CNN viewers.

[Harry Enten]

Yeah, this one was a surprising one to me given everything that's going on in Russia, what happened in Iran, what happened in Gaza. But the bottom line is Democrats in the American voters minds cannot hack it. What are we talking about? Party trust tomorrow on foreign policy well, the GOP holds an average six point lead in the month of July. Look at this. Fox News came out last week, plus 3 points for Republicans on foreign policy over the Democrats. You think that number is not high enough for you? How about the Wall Street Journal GOP plus 8 points when they match congressional Democrats up against congressional Republicans. The bottom line is this, despite everything that's going on in the world right now, Republicans are more trusted on Democrats when it comes to foreign policy and the world at large.

[Host 5]

How has this changed or how does this compare to during the campaign?

[Harry Enten]

Yeah, again, this to me was a surprising number since Donald Trump said he come in and broker all these peace deals and while he's brokered some, he hasn't obviously brokered one between Ukraine and Russia and obviously the situation in Gaza. But take a look here. Trust more in foreign policy. You go back to 2024, Trump had a six point advantage over Kamala Harris. Again, look at the average right now. It hasn't moved. Despite everything that's going on in the world. You see Republicans plus six points here.

[Host 5]

So I think there's a flaw in his reasoning, which is despite everything that's going on in the world, and I would say perhaps because of everything that's going on in the world, such as bombing the crap out of Iran's nuclear facilities, which most people are like, look at us. That seems good, sensible, successful. I'm impressed.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 5]

His point is well taken that obviously there was not a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia within 24 hours, which I believe is what Trump said he could pull off. I'm not sure everyone actually expected that to happen. I think Trump has been, look, some of his rhetoric on Ukraine is like a little squishy sometimes. But I also understand his larger point, which is that you have to justify this spending to the American people. And he's also again, cat falling off the counter, come up with this fantastic situation where the European Union is paying for arms from us to go to Ukraine because in spite of the fact or because of it that he said in his first term, NATO's got to do its part. NATO countries have to pay their fair share. And then all of them were like, oh, maybe we should. And then they did and then they paid for weapons to Ukraine. So he's like, he's pulled off a lot of stuff.

[Host 1]

Yes. And their pathological inability to give him credit for anything ever just continues to erode people's confidence in mainstream media. Like because they see the things happening and then they're told that it's not happening. And then they're like, I don't believe you anymore.

[Host 5]

Right. I think he also, there was a poll result out the other day and I cannot remember which poll, but it was, you know, Republicans had a 10 point lead on party that I trust to have a strong vision for the country. Right. And I think some of this, some of the foreign policy plus up or credit he's getting is not just from foreign policy, but the idea that he is a leader because he is inescapably leading. Right. Like you cannot help but understand his vision and hear his vision on all of these issues and see him take action on all these issues. And we had a comatose president for four years. So I think people are like, I feel like even if he's like, I don't totally agree with him all the time, he's doing the thing where you be a president.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And you know, harkening back to some of the things that we were talking about in the first segment, those of us that occupy a political space in what people in the swamp consider to be flyover kind country. Right. Like the big square states, the Rust Belt thing, the places where races are actually won and lost. The ramifications for this for midterms are just going to be super fascinating because we have a bunch of especially Democrats who are already trying to prepare themselves for the primary. And the way that they're primary, they're preparing themselves for the primary that we're seeing here and in other big square states is who can like run to the left as far as possible by talking about how much they hate Trump and they're going to have a really hard time running back to the middle.

[Host 5]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

As soon as, if these numbers continue to hold.

[Host 5]

Right. And so it's also like you've tried this playbook so many times.

[Host 1]

Yes, yes.

[Host 5]

So many times. Can we talk? Actually, this is like a little bit of a tangent, but I want to note that the Atlantic did a big profile piece on Jasmine Crockett. Now, speaking of running to the left, folks like you and I would be happy to see the Democrats make Jasmine Crockett their spiritual leader, which they seem to be sort of choosing to do. Jasmine Crockett is a Texas congresswoman, I believe, from the Houston area. I looked up her district. Her district is D + 30. Okay. D + 30. To give those who are not political junkies an idea of what that means. That's just like the proportion of Democrat voters versus Republican voters.

[Host 1]

Safest of safe.

[Host 5]

Like as safe as you can get. You can say Anything in this district and she'll get reelected. Okay, yeah. Just to give you an idea, like the roughly 18 to 25 toss up house seats that will determine the house control in 2026. The average number is like D plus one or even so. Right. Like just like a 29 point delta there. Right, Right. So the point being, this kind of congresswoman, although entertaining, I'll give her, is not going to be reaching people in swing districts and is largely probably going to repel them in very serious ways. And I just want to note my friend Amber Duke read the full profile, which I have not read yet. It's called A Democrat for the Trump Era. Jasmine Crockett is testing out the coarse style of politics that the GOP has embraced. First of all, hilarious that anyone thinks Democrats hadn't been coarse before. Now you tried to put him in literal jail, but. Okay, right, right. Fine, fine. Look what you made me do. Here's some facts from the profile just so you can get an idea of how she's going to be reaching out. Number one, her phone's locked, screen is a headshot of herself. Number two, she thought she deserved to be the top Democrat on oversight because she has the largest social media. Number three, she tried to shut down the profile after the reporter called a number of her colleagues in the House. That can't be good. So anyway, if Jasmine Crockett ends up being a very noticeable national spokesperson for the Democratic Party, that could spell trouble for them that, you know, might not be outweighable by the 2026 wins, which should blow as history with history as a guide against Republicans.

[Host 1]

Yeah, midterms. Midterms should not go well for Republicans. And yet, I mean, and the other thing is when you start to think about and talk about who they have kind of on their bench for president, it's not. They're kind of a headless entity right now.

[Host 5]

Yeah, I mean, this is part of the somewhat undercovered story of the Obama years is that he took out so many state representatives who otherwise might have been promising so many governorships were won by Republicans during those years and sort of thinned out their ranks. I also think an untold part of the story with Democrats is that operationally running campaigns and what's the chick's name who was on Harris's campaign also Stephanie Cutter. Stephanie Cutter spoke about this in a podcast, in a post mortem podcast with the Pod Bros, I think about how a generation of their operatives had not gotten the practice they needed. Guess why? Because Democrats didn't do operations in 2020 and for most of COVID So all the young people who running those campaigns should have learned those skills, did not learn those skills during those elections. Now that's not to say they can't get some of that back, but thinning your ranks either with candidates or with operations folks, not great.

[Host 1]

Well, and classically Democrats, a lot of their like field power, a lot of their organizational power has come from unions. Right. I, as, as an operative myself, I used to run up against union bosses and they will, I mean they are, they are hard workers and they are good organizer.

[Host 5]

Yeah, that's, that's the nature their whole thing. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Trump has thrown such a wrench into what is their organizational base of power just by being him and his numbers with actual union members that it's just, it's kind of fascinating to watch. It's like somebody threw a firecracker into the middle of an ant farm and you're just watching them run around in circles and not.

[Host 5]

Oh goodness. Let me give a few quick notes of caution for people who are inclined to want Republicans to win. And just like looking forward, this year is the Virginia governor's race in November. Now that is always seen as a bit of a tell, as is the New Jersey governor's race. Those happen in this weird off year fashion. Governor Youngkin, Republican in Virginia is very, very, very popular here. Like in the 60s approval rating. He cannot run for another term because Virginia has a dumb rule where they can't run for another term. He's just limited to one. So generally Virginia governors will like jump to Senate or, you know, this is, or become presidential candidates or whatever. So his lieutenant governor, Winsome Earl Sears, who is an African American woman, would be the first African American woman governor of XI1. She's a Marine. She's got a very compelling personal story. She is running as a Republican against Abigail Spanberger. Abigail Spanberger, sorry, this is a little bit of trivia, but you'll know it is from the same district that saw Dave Bratt take out Eric Cantor back in the day. So that's the district she was a representative from there. She's a statewide known figure. She's a perfect example of a Democrat who's pretty far left but can look and sound quite normie mom type figure in Virginia because of all the doge of it all. There's a lot of federal workers in Virginia and I think this one with a less compelling candidate than Youngkin because Youngkin was like the perfect candidate for the perfect moment in a pretty purple state. I think it is tough for Sears to pull this off and their campaign and the Republican Party seem to think so as well. They're doing a shakeup on her campaign this week for staffing because they're lagging in fundraising and polling. So we'll see where that one heads. Democrats could also overread that because Virginia might be weird because it's so full of federal workers.

[Host 1]

Virginia is weird. Yeah.

[Host 5]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I say this as a non swamp creature that lives in the big square states. Like yeah, always weird.

[Host 5]

Yeah. So that will play a part in this election that will not be present in like house districts in 2026. Nonetheless, let me also note in North Carolina, the former governor, Democrat Roy Cooper has decided to run for Senate there and that's to replace Thom Tillis. I know things, I've been on the road. Okay guys. Yes, he's gonna run. That was pretty much the Dems dream candidate. So that will eliminate a lot of spending and problems for them. Not doable for Republicans, but it makes it much more competitive. Okay, those are our cautionary notes and inspirational notes. We will be back on normally with one more segment about FAFO Parenting.

[Host 2]

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[Host 2]

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[Host 5]

And we are back. Kelly, I gotta do a parenting story with you. This one is in the Wall Street Journal and I think you know this is like Old news to us, right? Goodbye, gentle parenting. Hello, FAFO parenting. So f around and find out Parenting. It says parents are ditching the softer approach to child rearing that has dominated the culture and taking a harder line. Okay. And it opens with this anecdote. I see things in our future. Carla Dillon tried lots of ways to discipline her rambunctious 13 year old, including making him write the same contrite sentence a hundred times. But when he sprayed her with a water gun at a campground after she asked him not to, she saw only one option. She threw him in the pond, clothes and all. Some of the best lessons in life are the hard ones, she said. The Internet calls it fafo. It's a child rearing style that elevates consequences over the gentle parenting methods that have helped shape Gen Z. FAFO is based on the idea that parents can ask and warn, but if a child breaks the rules, mom and dad aren't standing in the way of repercussions. Won't bring your raincoat. Walk home in the downpour. Didn't feel like having lasagna for dinner? Survive until breakfast. Left your toy on the floor again? Go find it in the trash under the lasagna you didn't eat. Yes, please. Like, I don't know. I don't know what to say other than like, I'm like Bruce Willis and Die Hard. Like, welcome to the party, pal. This is what we've been doing over here.

[Host 1]

This is how we've been parenting since we had kids. It was interesting because out of the two of us, you would have been, I think, likely the better of the two of us, boy mom. And I would have predicted myself to be the girl mom. And yet you led with three girls.

[Host 5]

I got all those girls.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And I have two boys. And I will say, FAFO parenting is the only way to parent two boys. There's no. Unless you just concede property destruction. There's no. You have to stand up to them.

[Host 5]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Or you will get run over.

[Host 5]

I think it was. Do you know the essayist who on Twitter goes by cartoonshateher? She was noting that, like, you know, if you want to talk through each of your child's big feelings, that's fine if you have one child. Once you have more than one kid, the problem becomes that big feelings child is the one who gets attention. The attention is the thing that children want. So either you end up being unfair to your children who don't have big feelings, or you turn all of your children into big feelings children because what.

[Host 1]

They'Re doing because they're incentivized for them.

[Host 5]

You are incentivizing the big feelings that hold up the whole family that keep you from doing things that keep you on your like knees in front of a toddler begging with them to see reason when they are developmentally unable to see reason. Exactly. I put an example of our fafo parenting on X the other day and I was like, I wonder if I'll get called mommy dearest or something. But it's very simple. We and this, this probably sounds like normal stuff to most of our listeners because our listeners are pretty normal. I think gentle parenting can have some upsides. Like, I think there's things that you can do with your kids that do help them connect and calm down instead of just saying stop having this angry feeling. Right. I get that. But with stuff like this, like our kids know that we will not come to bring them their lunches at school if they. And they don't have a cafeteria where they go to school. So they have to take their lunches if they don't remember them. What was happening was that kindly teachers, gentle teachers were giving them like a piece of pizza or like something delicious or we were being called to the school and so we said, okay, we're not going to do that anymore. You have emergency beef jerky in your backpack. That doesn't go bad would be a.

[Host 1]

Great band name, by the way.

[Host 5]

Emergency jerky.

[Host 1]

Emergency beef jerky. Yeah.

[Host 5]

When you forget your lunch, you don't tell anyone.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 5]

You eat the jerky and then if you don't love the jerky, which we know you don't, it will incentivize you to remember your lunch. And as a result, they don't forget their lunches very often. Yeah, that's how we do it.

[Host 1]

I have a new policy that any Legos that end up in the dryer become mine.

[Host 5]

Oh, nice.

[Host 1]

Yeah. So now we're incentivizing get their Legos out of their pockets because they just have a bucket full of Legos. I did realize that I should not have bought a nice dryer until my kids are out of the house because I just basically have a multi thousand dollar rock tumbler that's my entire dryer at this point. It's the stupidest thing that I've ever spent like decent money on and but like it is I. There are, there are many things I like about gentle parenting and talking through feeling. I try very hard to do all of that. But also we have the time space continuum is real and we just have to be at school on time, and we just have to accomplish things, and we need to be able to go to the grocery store. And it is.

[Host 5]

And I think as. As illustrated by our first segment, you and I do think about economics and talk about economics on the phone a lot, because what else do mom. What else do mom friends do? We're so weird. And so one of the things that I am focusing on as a parent is what is the incentive structure in my house? And so a friend the other day who has. Is just has one kid, and she was talking about how she was whining, and she gave her this and that. She's trying to figure out how to, like, you know, to short circuit that. That wine fest and the. The tantrum or whatever it is. And I said, okay, hear me out. Tell her you can have the thing when you are calm for three minutes.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 5]

And thus you have told the child, calm is what gets the treat. Screaming is not what gets the treatment.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Don't whine, don't cry. Just say, I would like a muna, please. Right. Or whatever it is.

[Host 5]

And that's what my children used to call those little pouches.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I know. That's what I was trying to think of mine. Mine still always go for the applesauce pouches. And, yeah. So don't whine, don't cry. Just say, I would like this.

[Host 5]

But you have to switch the incentive structure or else they will read all day that screaming is what gets them what they want.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 5]

And then you get yourself in trouble. Okay, we're going to close out, but I'm going to close out with this, Kelly, because I have one boy, and I have noticed that the number of head injuries is just, like, exponentially higher than the girls. We have an ottoman in the middle of the room that's basically our coffee table. So it's padded. This is strategic. We have two toddlers. They're going to be jumping all around. So it's just like an upholstered ottoman, giant coffee table. He got a footstool and put it on top of the coffee table and then climbed up on top of it. And I was sitting there the whole time watching him because he's my fourth kid. And I was like, okay, let's see how it goes. Perhaps the consequences will tell him something about this action. And he's standing up there and he's kind of like dancing a jig up on the footstool on top of the padded ottoman, testing his balance. Actually, nothing bad happened to him on this occasion. But what he said to me was, mom, look at me. I injure sizing. I injure sizing. And I was like, you know what? That's incorrect. But it's extremely correct that that's what you're doing.

[Host 1]

It is.

[Host 5]

So I will keep you posted on whether he intercises himself.

[Host 1]

I will mine this week. I think I told you this already was we were My younger son spilled all over all of his clothes and he said, mom, I got it all over my clothes, every single clo.

[Host 5]

And it reminded me.

[Host 1]

It reminded me of how messed up the English language is. I got it on every single clo.

[Host 5]

I was like, I'm never gonna stop laughing at that.

[Host 1]

Did you see his little face too, Mom? It got on almost all over my clothes.

[Host 5]

Every single cloth.

[Host 1]

There you go exercising in your clo.

[Host 5]

My clo. He is often only wearing one clo.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 5]

Oh my God. Now everybody keep all your clo on. Oh thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcast. Get in touch with us at NormallyThePod. Thanks for listening and when things get weird, act normally.

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[Host 1]

This is an I Heart podcast.