Normally Podcast: Trump Reappeared. Now Let’s Talk CDC Turmoil & Declining Birth Rates

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

"Normally Podcast: Trump Reappeared. Now Let’s Talk CDC Turmoil & Declining Birth Rates"

Date: September 2, 2025
Hosts: Mary Katharine Ham & Carol Markowitz

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Overview

In this episode of "Normally", Mary Katharine Ham and Carol Markowitz take a thoughtful yet humorous look at several major news stories: a social media-fueled rumor about Donald Trump’s wellbeing, the ongoing upheaval at the CDC, and the left’s recent reckoning with falling birth rates among progressives. The hosts dissect media narratives, question cultural trends, and highlight how current events tie into long-term societal changes.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Brief Absence Sparks Social Media Frenzy

[03:45–11:45]

Recap of the Incident

• Over Labor Day weekend, online speculation erupted over Donald Trump’s whereabouts after a tweet from journalist Laura Rosen noted his lack of public appearances.
• Rosen’s update, Initially routine, escalated rapidly online, prompting some to question if Trump had died or suffered a health crisis.

Hosts’ Analysis

• Both hosts mock the overreaction, noting the double standard compared to President Biden’s frequent absences.
• Mary Katharine Ham: “Biden was missing for days at a time and no one cared for months at a time.” (05:25)
• Carol Markowitz: “Trump is gone for a few days…people absolutely lost their minds.” (05:28)

Critique of Political Hostility

• The hosts criticize those publicly wishing death upon political figures, calling it “classless” and corrosive.
• Carol: “It’s not going to be over policy disagreements. It’s going to be over—you’re a really bad person who is rooting for the death of a father and grandfather. … I could never do that. … Terrorists are all I could come up with.” (09:43–10:19)
• Mary Katharine: “Don’t do assassination fetishism. Don’t do wishing politicians are dead. It’s bad news.” (11:45)

On Political Strategy

• Host point out that Trump’s sudden demise would only empower his younger and capable successor, J.D. Vance, and rob the left of their main “villain.”
• “You’ve lost your chief villain, who is the person who keeps your base very excited, motivated, better or worse.” (09:35)

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2. CDC Shakeup: Media Panic vs. Real Impact

[15:24–26:26]

Context of the CDC Changes

• CDC Director Suzanne Monarz, appointed just a month ago, is ousted following disputes with RFK Jr. (the head of HHS).
• Several resignations follow, igniting media proclamations of a public health crisis.

Hosts’ Take

• Ham and Markowitz assert the CDC’s failings during COVID, suggesting the organization’s dysfunction was so severe it arguably did more harm than good.
• Carol: “We could have done better without having a CDC during the worst time, the only time that we've ever needed the CDC.” (16:55)
• Mary Katharine: “If you had removed them from the formula entirely…” (16:59)

Criticism of Public Health Messaging

• They highlight the contrast in public health guidance for different groups, playing a clip of Dimitri Dasilakis (monkeypox response) advocating a harm-reduction approach for group sex but backing draconian restrictions for schools and churches during COVID.
• Mary Katharine: “During a monkeypox outbreak… we value group sex as a place of joy. But during COVID we’re going to shut schools… and tell you there is no joy in a backyard barbecue.” (20:38–21:06)

On Political Activism in Public Health

• Critique officials like Dasilakis for using progressive language (“pregnant people”) and focusing on political messaging over medical accuracy.
• Carol: “Somebody who thinks that there can be pregnant non-women is not somebody we want in positions of medical authority in this country.” (22:08)

Call for Real Reform

• Push for genuine reform: hire public health officials who were independent, courageous, and right during the pandemic.
• Praise for experts like Marty Makary, Jay Bhattacharya, and Vinay Prasad.
• Mary Katharine: “There is an opportunity to staff with people who were smart during the pandemic, who spoke up and were brave about it.” (23:05)

Critique of Media Coverage

• The hosts call out media figures like Apoorva Mendevili (NYT) for alarmist reporting and a checkered record on COVID accuracy.
• Mary Katharine: “Apoorva Mendevili… is a famous liar and dupe.” (17:38)

Highlighting Past Quiet Resignations

• They recall that vaccine specialists who quietly left the FDA during the COVID vaccine mandate push weren't met with media outcry.
• “Somehow that wasn’t a big story.” (25:06)

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3. The Birth Rate Debate: Did the Right “Trick” the Left?

[29:48–35:34]

Introduction to the Conversation

• Financial Times’ John Burn-Murdoch’s Twitter thread draws attention for noting that the decline in US birth rates is driven mainly by progressives having fewer children.
• He warns the left that shunning family and children could “usher in a more conservative world.”

Hosts’ Response

• Both hosts laugh at the idea that conservatives somehow “tricked” the left into not having kids.
• Carol: “This is insanely not news. … The fact that the left is just realizing this is another tell that they don't listen to us at all.” (31:19)
• Mary Katharine: “We didn’t bring this on you, guys.” (31:21)

Historic and Cultural Trends

• Reference to the “Roe Effect”—the idea that higher abortion rates on the left would shrink their future base, while larger conservative families shift demographics.
• Discuss the left’s skepticism and even disapproval of large families, contrasted with the right’s encouragement of childbearing.

Demography as Destiny?

• Not every child grows up to share their parents’ politics, but statistically, large families with religious practice skew right of center.
• Mary Katharine: “Many kids who are growing up in a three-plus kid household, are raised in faith… are likely to become more right of center.” (32:47)

Broader Societal Impact

• Declining birth rates change a country’s sense of optimism and its future.
• They connect progressive climate anxiety and “doom” narratives to lower birth rates among the left.
• Carol: “It is a difference in the way the country sees itself, the way they look at their future…” (33:56)

Migration and Political Change

• Note the likely consequence of migration to red states and changing congressional representation to amplify conservative influence.
• Mary Katharine: “The 2030 census… migration to red states is gonna change the electoral college…” (35:34)

Final Word on Accountability

• “From our perspective over here, you did it to yourselves. And once again, we didn't trick you.” (35:34)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You’ve lost your chief villain, who is the person who keeps your base very excited, motivated, better or worse.” – Mary Katharine Ham (09:35)
• “We could have done better without having a CDC during the worst time.” – Carol Markowitz (16:55)
• “During a monkeypox outbreak… value group sex as a place of joy. But during COVID… shut schools and churches and tell you there is no joy in a backyard barbecue…” – Mary Katharine Ham (20:38–21:06)
• “Pregnant people is not somebody we want in positions of medical authority…” – Carol Markowitz (22:08)
• “So who really cares? Have the babies, friends, have the babies.” – Carol Markowitz (34:44)
• “We didn't trick you.” – Carol Markowitz (35:34)

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Timestamps of Key Segments (MM:SS)

• 03:45 Trump’s disappearance and social media panic
• 07:09 Media double standards regarding presidential absences
• 09:43 Ethics of wishing death on political opponents
• 15:24 The CDC shakeup explained
• 16:13–16:59 Was the CDC a hindrance during COVID?
• 19:58 Clip: Dimitri Dasilakis’ monkeypox advice
• 20:38–21:06 Comparing public health messaging: COVID vs. monkeypox
• 23:05–24:21 Opportunity for true CDC reform
• 25:06 Media ignores resignations over vaccine mandate controversy
• 29:48–31:19 The birth rate debate and the “Roe Effect”
• 32:47–34:44 How family, faith, and optimism tie to demographics
• 35:34 Migration and political consequences
• 35:34 “We didn't trick you” and episode close

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Tone & Style

The episode is characterized by witty banter, exasperation at media excess, and a no-nonsense conservative perspective. Both hosts strike a balance between sarcasm and seriousness, making even potentially dry topics like birth rates and CDC bureaucracy engaging and relatable.

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Transcript

[Mary Katharine Ham]

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[Mary Katharine Ham]

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[Mary Katharine Ham]

Hey guys, we are back on Normal, the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird.

[Carol Markowitz]

I am Mary Kassern Ham and Carol Markowitz. How was your Labor Day weekend? Mary Kathryn it's been pretty good.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

I got to get up to New York and host the big weekend show on Fox. And you know what? The Big weekend show is big and it has a lot of topics and.

[Carol Markowitz]

So you know a lot of things now.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Well, either that or my brain is just fried from having known a lot of things and now I've moved on from those. Like cramming for a test. Right? I got to hand it to New York this time. It's like 65 degrees outside and gorgeous.

[Carol Markowitz]

New York does end of summer, early fall very, very well. It gets cold very quickly though. I'm not one of those autumn girls at all, so.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Well, me neither. Are you. I'm a summer girl. I'm a summer gal as well. It's the superior season. I like September because it's mostly summer with just like a touch of fall. I'm here for it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Not in Florida, but yes, I seem to recall that's how it went elsewhere.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yes.

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, the big story over the weekend was somehow is Trump dead? And it started with a tweet and I'm still going to call it tweet, even though it's X. What else are we calling it? From Laura Rosen and she said Trump has no public events scheduled all weekend. Don't believe he was seen today either. And then she followed up, not seen yesterday either. And then she quoted a White House pool reporter saying the pool did not see the president today. Quote, we have a travel photo lit as of 5:17pm Pool did not physically see the president today. This blew so out of proportion it really got me thinking. First of all, Biden was missing for days at a time and no one.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Cared for months at a time.

[Carol Markowitz]

Was he even here? Like, is he actually president? And we still don't really know. Trump is gone for a few days. Not even a few days. It's Labor Day weekend. He's gone for Friday and Thursday and people absolutely lost their minds. At the end of basically this hoopla, Laura updated that Trump on Saturday was with his granddaughter Kai Trump. They were going to go golfing in Virginia. And then she also said that a Daily Caller reporter, Reagan Reese, had been with Trump on the Friday where she had originally reported that nobody had seen him. Ultimately, she said my two cents. When I noted at the top that Trump did not have public events on the long weekend schedule and had not been seen for a few days, I did not know what it meant. If anything, maybe getting some sort of medical tension, maybe something else, maybe nothing. Sometimes one only finds out later what was going on. But for some, someone who likes to always be on tv, et cetera, the absence seemed worth noting. It genuinely never occurred to me that anyone would think he was not alive. And when started to see the volume of responses to that effect, I felt like it was a bystander to whatever was driving that virality. In any case, it is obvious today from photos of him going to his golf club with his grandchildren, he is still functional. Still. Fair to say there is something sort of limited about his visibility in these photos and his grandchildren. More discreet witnesses to his demeanor. Demeanor than his sometimes weekend golfing partners say, like Lindsey Graham. Still wonder if he's had some sort of medical procedure or something. I don't know. This was insane and I don't know what to make of it. People were absolutely losing their minds. What did you see?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

No, I, it escalated very quickly and I, I don't think Rosen is wrong for pointing out oh sure, he's sort of weirdly out of the spotlight for a couple of days. That is true. Now you should probably note in that tweet it is a holiday weekend.

[Carol Markowitz]

Ye.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

He may have some plans but and.

[Carol Markowitz]

It'S okay to take a day or two off when you are president. Now, I think the other guy took months off.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

I know, like the diversion from the norm I think is noteworthy and could possibly be a news story. Right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

But I think she didn't count on her followers and be crazy liberals and blue sky liberals in general being this insane.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

And they have been obsessing for quite some time about his health. Right. And look, I think, as I've said, I think that the White House should be transparent and upfront about the president's health situation. It was notably very not for four years. And if Trump is in bad health, they should be telling people what's going on. Now, the left tweeters and blue skiers have been chasing down pictures of him looking unstable or sick.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. But we see him all the time. It's like you can't chase down those pictures with this administration because we see Trump all the time.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Well, and he had given a three hour cabinet meeting presser like days before. So anyway, they've been chasing this for a long time. There is this idea that he is like gravely ill and that he's gonna keel over at any minute. First of all, he's in his late 70s. Okay. He likely has some health issues that just are part of being in your late 70s.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

But game this out for me, Carol. The people who are really were so excited.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

That President Trump might be dead. First of all, it's classless to do that. It's classless to do it with Obama or Biden or whomever. Second of all, how does that work out for them?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Who becomes president?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

President Vance is quite clearly the successor in the Constitution and maybe they're not. Well, read up on that. So he becomes the president. He is capable. He is young. He. He then has several years of presidential experience going in to 2028. I just.

[Carol Markowitz]

How is this better for them?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

How is this better for you? And you've lost your chief villain.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Who is the person who keeps your base very excited, motivated, better or worse?

[Carol Markowitz]

Mm.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

I don't get it. Why are you excited?

[Carol Markowitz]

It makes no sense. It really makes no sense. And I also will say we talk a lot on here about not losing friends over politics or acquaintances, even over politics. But some of the gross posts I saw on Facebook in the last few days of people I know, I don't know, I'm. I was like, do I do. Is this, Is this where I defriend people? I. It's not going to be over policy disagreements. It's going to be over. You're a really bad person who is rooting for the death of a father and grandfather. I just, I could never do that. I could, I like, I try to imagine like who, whose death I would root for. I don't know. Terrorists.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Literally.

[Carol Markowitz]

Terrorists are all I could come up with. And it's just like, I don't know.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

And the same people who wish for his death are very happy to be angry that terrorists are killed. So.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Funny.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

They got it flipped. They got it flipped.

[Carol Markowitz]

They really do. Don't root for people's deaths. People. I get it. You feel strongly and you hate people. In the public eye, there's still people and it's wrong. It's wrong and it's not going to hurt them. It's going to hurt you. You become a worse person, a coarser person. It's not about going low when, you know, going high when they go low or any of that. It's about you being a human who travels through this life being a good person. And that's really the goal here. Don't root for the death of anyone.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Also, since the beginning of my doing this job, the online left has been quite obvious and enthusiastic about wishing the death of its political adversaries. And the online right has many of many, many problems.

[Carol Markowitz]

Many.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

But it has struck me for 20 years doing this that the left is very enthusiastic about wishing these kinds of things. Very obvious about it sort of gets a pass because they have a lot of allies in the media when they are badly behaved this way. But it's bad form. It's bad form. Just, just don't do it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Don't do it.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Don't do, don't do assassination fetishism. Don't do wishing that politicians are dead. It's bad news. So he, he remains with us. He's playing golf and we will keep you updated on his health as, as things move forward.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I can't wait to hear how his golf game was this weekend. Honestly, I feel like he's going to have a lot to say.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

He's, he generally has a lot to say. So back to it soon, I'm sure. Yes. Up next on Normally. We're to take a quick break and we will be back with a CDC dust up.

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[Mary Katharine Ham]

Alrighty. There is a big change going on at the center for Disease Control. There was, of course, a clap out for those who are leaving in protest. There's a handful of people who are leaving because the CDC director who was just put in place about a month ago, CDC Director Suzanne Monarz was asked to leave. She got in a little back and forth with rfk, who is the head of hhs, because she didn't believe he had the power to fire her, which I think is actually accurate. I think the president has to fire her. At any rate, they went back and forth. A couple of other people resigned in protest because the newly placed CDC director was being let go. And now you have a lot of New York Times stories along the lines of can the CDC survive? How big a deal?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

We have many thoughts about the cdc, but how big a deal do we think this shake up is in real life?

[Carol Markowitz]

Not a big deal in the media world. The biggest deal that has ever dealt ever. And that really is the divide between what is going on in our press and what is going on in people's lives. I wrote a piece, you know, several years ago now and the cdc, their performance during COVID was atrocious. And the fact is we could have done better without having a CDC during the worst time, the only time that we've ever needed the cdc. And you know, and actually true.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

That's actually true. If you had removed them from the formula entirely.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, yeah. Look, I, you know, we've talked about it on here, but before the pandemic, I wasn't like an anti CDC person. I wasn't anti public health official. I just saw that in a time where we needed them to perform, they absolutely failed. And then why do we need them? So these firings or resignations, forced resignations, don't bother me at all. I think a lot of these people deserve it and they're anti science, largely. We'll get into one of the cases in particular. But yeah, the fact that the media is so angry about it does not make it a real story, does not make it important in people's lives.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yeah. I should note that the sky is falling. Will the CDC survive? Piece is written by Apoorva Mendevili, who is a famous Liar and dupe. And she is the COVID era. She is the New York Times health, public health reporter. She's very, very bad. So awful that that all should be taken with a grain of salt. I will say.

[Carol Markowitz]

I would just say to people listening, look up apoorva corrections on Google and enjoy your time looking at her work.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

If you've got a lot of time. No, I agree with you that, and I think the way you put it about the CDC is helpful because I think you're right that basically without them, we would have done a better job during the pandemic. Which is why when the people who resign go on TV and say, this will harm people, we will not be prepared for the next outbreak, will it? I'm sorry, what? Show me where you were prepared for the last outbreak. Show me where you told the truth about the last outbreak. By the way, I bought the hype. I believed the movie outbreak, that the CDC was full of geniuses.

[Carol Markowitz]

And it.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

It indeed might be in parts, but what I saw of the CDC was a bunch of lies. A bunch of ideologically driven, politicized. Yep, a bunch of politicized terrible advice. And my friend Kelly from Georgia, who is a mom who's good at math, flagging the CDC for messing up basic statistics regularly and saying, hey, I need you guys to fix this. And eventually they would never giving credit to the mom in Georgia who's correcting them. By the way, can we put her in the shakeup somewhere?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, exactly. Her handle on X is Kelly with an E, Y, K, G. A must follow.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yes. So that's what I saw during the pandemic. And then one of the guys who has now left. So this is Dimitri Dasilakis, I believe.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

He was in charge of the monkeypox response after Covid, and this was the first time I ever heard of this guy, is when I saw this clip telling us how we should deal with monkeypox and see if you can find a slight difference between the way that it's treated.

[Dimitri Dasilakis]

Yeah, I work in HIV normally, and I'll tell you that, you know, I always say that I've never made an HIV diagnosis in someone that hasn't somehow related to stigma. I think MPOX is the same. So really stigma tends to be a barrier to testing, a barrier to vaccination. And so, you know, really addressing stigma intentionally and making sure that we get the word out in a way that supports people's joy as opposed to, you know, calling them risky. So I think, you know, one of the things to think about is that, you know, one person's idea of risk is another person's idea of a great festival or Friday night for that matter. So we have to sort of embrace, embrace that with joy and make sure that folks know how to keep themselves safe.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Okay, so let me just. During a monkeypox outbreak, which is a sexually transmitted infection, we are going to do harm reduction and value group sex as a place of joy.

[Carol Markowitz]

Something you just have to have sometimes.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

But during COVID we're going to shut schools for the least at risk population and churches and churches and tell you that there is no joy in a backyard barbecue and we will be having none of that.

[Carol Markowitz]

And seeing your family is just not that important. Yes. Having group sex on a Friday night that you need, but seeing grandma less.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Prevalent, that's not joy we need to honor. So that's the first time I heard of this guy when the monkeypox outbreak happened. And so I shed few tears for his exit. And he also referred to pregnant people in his exit to resignation letter. And then he's gone on. Like I will say, look, Dr. Mark Siegel, who is a Fox News contributor who did the big weekend show with me last night, said this guy has been good at things, working in HIV and working in infectious diseases, and he's okay, fine. That may be the case. He is the worst, absolute worst spokesperson for telling me why he should be at the cdc because he is doing every other political story he can get his hands on, talking about transit. He's talking about stuff that has nothing to do with, with what he's allegedly good at. And that makes me think that he did a lot of that on the job.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly. I, you know, I, look, maybe Mark is right, but I don't care. I don't care. Because somebody who thinks that there can be pregnant non women is not somebody we want in positions of medical authority in this country. And that's really what it keeps coming down to. If we have ideal ideologues on the right that push a political message in health organizations like blatant political messaging, I think the left would understand what the problem is. But because it's their own messaging, they literally can't see what the issue is. So what? Pregnant people? Why can't we say pregnant people? Well, because women are the only ones who can get pregnant. That's why. That's why you can't say pregnant people. And again, don't feel at all sorry for him. I think that this is a, a case of you flew too close to the sun, you wanted to be A political actor. Now you are a political actor. You're on all the shows. Congratulations to you. But you can no longer have the medical job.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Right. I will say this about reshaping the cdc. I think that Trump has a great opportunity to rebuild trust in public health. RFK Jr. Was obviously a very controversial pick. I understood that he needed leeway for that. Do I think he's the best pick? I don't like you and I have talked about how we prefer Marty Makary, how we like Jay Bhattacharya, how we like Vinay Prasad, who was put back in his position. We appreciate that there is an opportunity to staff with people who were smart during the pandemic, who spoke up and were brave about it, who are critical thinkers, who have their background to do it in an orderly way. And my concern is, once again we have a staffing dust up that is like, this woman was just put in place by you guys a month ago. By the way, all the Democrats on the Hill who didn't vote for her are now like, oh my gosh, she's amazing. We must have hero. Yeah, but like, who's in charge? Who's making the decisions? How are you remaking this organization? Let's think about that and do it well, because I believe that you're up against some bad forces. I believe that many of these people should go. I would like you to see it. I would like to see it done in a way that makes me feel confident about where you're headed.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right. Let's follow Mary Catherine's plan.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Oh, one more note. You and I looked this up because we couldn't quite remember what happened. But two FDA officials who specialized in vaccines left during the ongoing discussion of COVID vaccines and the somewhat controversial issuing of mandates to young people, particularly young men who were getting myocarditis. We know that health officials hid real facts about the efficacy of the COVID vaccine. They hid the risks to young men for myocarditis when they knew about it. Two of those folks resigned and somehow that wasn't a big story. It was just like, I guess these people just aren't interested in public health and we'll move on without them.

[Carol Markowitz]

Peak of their kind of importance, they just didn't want to be there anymore for some reason. Nobody knows why.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Nobody knows why. And when it comes to discussing vaccines, which we're going to be doing, and I think RFK has some bad ideas on them because, like much of the research on the autism vaccine front was explicitly faked by a guy and we know that the data was faked by him. So I don't like that being part of the discussion. Do I want to have a discussion?

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure, go ahead. Right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

But again, lefties have to just erase the entire last five years to tell you that the CDC and the FDA and acip, which is the vaccine group that approves everything, they're doing just a peachy keen job. Right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. They just want to get to like, the best health outcomes. There's no political anything going on there.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

No, no, no. Like, as our good friend political math Matthias Shapiro notes on Twitter, the experts at ACIP in particular, that was supposed to be the independent group that reviews vaccines, they allowed themselves to get bullied by a deceitful CDC in the Biden administration. They recommended an untested vaccine booster against their better judgment and allowed the CDC and the Biden administration to box them into the corner. There are consequences for that and sometimes that looks like an overhaul at your agency.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sorry. Not that sorry. We'll be right back with a story on how conservatives, those dastardly conservatives trick the liberals into not having children. How dare we marry Catherine.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

We have amazing powers.

[Carol Markowitz]

Be right back.

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[Carol Markowitz]

We are back on normally where A columnist and chief data reporter at the Financial Times, John Byrne Murdoch, had a thread over the last few days where he said that progressives need to start talking about the birth rate problem. He his original tweet said for all the talk of a general fall in births, the drop is overwhelmingly driven by people on the left having fewer kids. By seating the topic of family and children to the right, progressives risk ushering in a more conservative world. Now, first of all, we all saw this coming. This is insanely not news. And the fact that the left is just realizing this is another tell that they don't listen to us at all. So it could not have been us talking them into not having children for Years and years. James Toronto at the Wall Street Journal would highlight something called the Roe Effect where more people on the left were having abortions, therefore more people on the right were having kids and fewer people on the left were having kids. And that this would inevitably usher in a more conservative populace. You don't always follow your parents politics. Listen, I understand that, but. But you do a lot of the time. And there is definitely a correlation between the political opinions of your parents and the political opinions of your kids. So it was coming all along. And the fact that this is now something that the left is discovering is wild.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yeah, we didn't bring this on you guys.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. We tried to make you listen well.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

And that's what Tim Carney, who wrote a great book called Family Unfriendly, that's about gearing society, American society a little bit more back towards families so that we can help them make it easier to have more children. He noted that like I've been talking about natalism for years and policy solutions and inviting the left to have that discussion with me. But the left has really painted itself into a corner because they look at people like me or you who are over replacement level and they say that's irresponsible. They think it's bad. They'll say you can't give enough attention to each child. They'll say that you can't. You're putting a burden on other people by having this many. In fact, no, if you actually want the social programs that you guys want, you have to have my kids someday to be tax fodder for you. So I so just like remember that. But yes, of course not every kid becomes whatever political affiliation was. But many kids who are growing up in a three plus kid household, are raised in a faith, are practicing that faith on a regular basis, are likely to become more right of center than left just given that. And, and that will pay dividends to right leaning candidates in the future. I mean that's just, that's just a fact, guys.

[Carol Markowitz]

Just a fact. His last tweet in the thread originally said the greatest trick the right ever pulled was convincing the left that talking about families and children is conservative coded. He, to his credit, changed that last tweet to I fear many progressives have convinced themselves that talking about families and children is conservative coded because that's actually what happened. We were like, guys, everybody should be having more children. And I have to admit at some point a few years ago I was like, wait, why am I pitching this to progressives? Like fine, don't have Children, what do I care? I don't care. So I did slow down on that. But we did still keep ringing the alarm that, that we were, you know, getting to the place where we were below replacement rates. It does change the fabric of your country when you're not having enough children. I've seen it happen in other countries. Scotland, for example, my beloved Scotland. There, there just, it is a difference in the way that the country sees itself, the way that they look at their future, the way things that are important to them change. Because you're not having kids. So. So who really cares?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yeah, no, it is. Having kids is a gauge for your optimism for the future. And if you're part of a, if you're part of a left leaning group who has a lot of climate anxiety, who is told that it is certain doom, if you bring your children into this world, of course you're going to have fewer of them. And anecdotally I would say it's very clear between. And I have a lot of liberal friends and I have a lot of conservative friends, the conservative women friends in my life, I think over the past. My oldest is 12. There's one girl group who has had like 17 children since the time that she was born or no, not even since she was born, like in the last seven years. And it's very different with my friends on the left who, you know, have one or two. It's just a very different cultural vibe.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Yeah. Have the babies, friends, have the babies.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Well, and one more thing as this, we've talked about it in the past. Yes. This demographic part of it, the fact that Democrats were relying on demographics as destiny. Right. That was the Obama pitch that like now we have a country that is full of, it's diverse and it's full of black and brown people who are never going to vote for Republicans. And then Trump went and made an argument to those people and they started voting for him. So there are several demographic fronts that are not going well for Democrats, including one more, the 2030 census that we've talked about where the migration to red states is gonna change the way that we do the math on the electoral college and the representation in Congress. And that three for. It's not great for the left.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Which you know, from our perspective over here, you did it to yourselves. And you know, once again, we didn't trick you. This is the segment, second segment of I don't feel sorry for you. Thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally air Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening and when things get weird, act normally.

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[Glenn Washington]

I'm Glenn Washington, the host of KQED's Snap Judgment podcast. And on Snap, we don't just tell stories, we live them Every week a different journey, like on a plane with Rihanna, a racetrack in Tijuana, a year inside an Oakland homeless encampment. Real people, real voices with original music and cinematic sound. Snap judgment from KQED New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Mary Katharine Ham]

This is an iHeart podcast.