Normally Podcast: Trump’s Health, Comedy on Trial, and the Future of America

Summary

Episode Summary: Trump’s Health, Comedy on Trial, and the Future of America

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (Guest Hosts: Mary Katherine & Carol Markowitz)
Date: September 4, 2025
[Content summary begins at 03:09]

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Overview

In this compelling episode, hosts Mary Katherine and Carol Markowitz tackle a range of current events and controversies with their signature blend of wit, skepticism, and concern for "normalcy." Key topics include conspiracies around Trump’s health, the deployment of the National Guard in American cities, the shocking arrest of British comedian Graham Linehan, and debates over America’s shrinking population. Their discussions blend anecdote, media critique, and political analysis in an engaging and approachable style.

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Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump Health Rumors & Online Conspiracies

[03:15–06:06]

• Main Theme: Wild rumors swirled online about Donald Trump’s health following a short public absence, with speculation ranging from death to dramatic resignation.
• Hosts’ Take: Both charity and frustration for the level of conspiracy from all political sides. Carol underscores that conspiracy theorizing is not unique to the right:
  • “The left has their own conspiracy theory insanity… It does make me worried about the country as a whole.” (Carol, 03:36)
• Trump’s Social Tactics: Discussion of Trump as "troll in chief,” suggesting he may enjoy trolling the media and public with his actions.
  • “Once he knows this is what people do when he takes two days off, he's gonna start taking two days off so people just spin out online." (Mary Katherine, 03:58)
• Media and Political Overreaction: Hosts play and react to Tim Walz’s (Kamala’s rumored VP pick) cryptic comments about “news” coming soon about Trump, critiquing the ghoulish speculation.

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2. Trump, the National Guard & Urban Crime

[06:06–12:34]

• National Guard Announcements: Trump proposes deploying the National Guard to cities like Chicago and possibly Baltimore to address violence; discussion weighs federal authority vs. city/state jurisdiction.
  • “The biggest utility of Trump saying he’s going to do these things…is shaming cities into doing the jobs they should’ve been doing.” (Mary Katherine, 07:31)
• Local Resistance & Political Blame: Democratic governors and mayors criticized for resisting federal involvement and for minimizing city crime rates.
  • "You can't just say 'big cities just have crime and that's the way it is'… Trump is saying we can help solve this." (Carol, 09:44)
• Comparisons and Double Standards: National Guard presence in liberal cities (NYC subway, post-Jan 6th in D.C.) hasn’t attracted the same accusations of ‘fascism’ as Trump’s proposals.
• Public Appetite for Safety: Discussion centers on the public willingness to accept increased enforcement for reduced crime, crediting visible policing with improvements in places like D.C.’s Union Station.

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3. Quick Take: Trump’s Military Flexes

[12:34–14:47]

• Strike Announcement: Trump’s “truth” post about a targeted strike on narco-terrorists (linked to Venezuela’s Maduro) draws attention.
• Hosts’ Analysis: While Trump avoids long wars, he likes to show strength with “occasional bellicosity”—making a point of visible military action.
  • “Americans are very comfortable with an occasional flex… if [terrorists] are gone, we feel good about that.” (Mary Katherine, 14:30)

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4. Comedy & Free Speech: The Arrest of Graham Linehan

[18:32–27:27]

• Incident: Irish comedian Graham Linehan, creator of “Father Ted,” was arrested at Heathrow over tweets deemed offensive by UK authorities.
• Hosts express shock:
  • “It's insane that he was arrested at Heathrow Airport... because of some tweets.” (Carol, 18:41)
• Free Speech Concerns: The UK and EU are critiqued for their “police state” trajectory:
  • “If you have to say it after a comedian has been arrested at your airport, it's a problem.” (Carol, 19:52)
  • Quoting Charles Cooke: “Britain has a parliament that can meet to help you kill yourself, but not to protect your speech…” (Read by Mary Katherine, 20:28)
• Policing Priorities Skewed: The panel contrasts aggressive enforcement on speech offenses with leniency toward more serious crimes, drawing parallels to situations in American and Canadian cities.
  • “It feels like [authorities] are…favoring non-citizens or people engaged in violent crime, while the law-abiding get nitpicked to death.” (Mary Katherine, 21:49)
• Notorious Examples: Reference to a young woman jailed for posting rap lyrics; hosts decry the normalization of such over-policing.
  • [Konstantin Kisin Clip at 23:24]: “In Russia last year, 400 people were arrested for things they said on social media. In Britain? 3,300.”
• Selective Use of Law Enforcement: Discussion of how some on the left are comfortable deploying law enforcement on “wrong-speak” or COVID rulebreakers, but claim basic policing is fascist.
  • “Those same people…would happily use [law enforcement] to go after wrong speak in the United States…” (Mary Katherine, 26:00)
• Media Critique: “60 Minutes” is called out for its favorable coverage of German speech policing.

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5. America's Shrinking Population & Birth Rate Worries

[31:41–35:57]

• Population Shrinking?: Citing a Derek Thompson tweet that the U.S. population “could shrink for the first time ever in 2025,” the hosts examine causes, uncertainties, and political narratives.
  • “Anything that has ‘could shrink, could happen’… you’re already trying to scare us about it.” (Carol, 32:04)
• Immigration & Demographics: “Immigrants” as a solution to labor shortages is critiqued for conflating legal immigrants with surges in illegal border crossings.
  • “All of this is designed to make people afraid of fighting illegal immigration. If we’re going to have labor shortages…we could always have legal immigration.” (Carol, 33:36)
• Natalism & Urban Decline: They highlight how left-leaning cities accelerated decline by mishandling COVID and other governance issues, leading to population loss and demographic time bombs.
  • “I watched cities commit suicide.” (Mary Katherine, 35:27)
• Link to Politics: Fewer births among liberals contrasted with higher birth rates in conservative families—what does this mean for the political landscape long-term?

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On conspiracies about Trump:
  • “I’m glad the right doesn’t have a monopoly on crazy people believing crazy things…” (Carol, 03:36)
• On National Guard deployment:
  • “The biggest utility… is shaming cities into doing the jobs they should have been doing” (Mary Katherine, 07:31)
• On Governor Pritzker’s minimization of city crime:
  • “You can’t say… ‘Big cities have crime and that’s the way it is’—and expect that to be okay.” (Carol, 09:44)
• On policing priorities:
  • “It feels like [authorities] are… favoring non-citizens… while actual citizens… are getting nitpicked to death.” (Mary Katherine, 21:49)
• On UK speech laws:
  • “If you have to say it after some comedian has been arrested at your airport, it’s a problem.” (Carol, 19:52)
• On lockdown-era liberal cities:
  • “I watched cities commit suicide.” (Mary Katherine, 35:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump health rumors & online conspiracy: 03:15–06:06
• National Guard & urban crime: 06:06–12:34
• Trump's military strike post: 12:34–14:47
• The Graham Linehan arrest & free speech: 18:32–27:27
• Population decline, immigration, natalism: 31:41–35:57

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Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Mary Katherine and Carol offer sharp, often humorous commentary while expressing deep unease at political extremism, “normalization” of city crime, government overreach on speech, and careless policy affecting demographic futures. Whether you’re interested in law enforcement debates, global free speech issues, or the weirdness of modern “news,” this episode delivers with lively exchanges, pointed media critique, and a focus on acting “normally” in an increasingly abnormal political landscape.

Transcript

[Mary Katherine]

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[Mary Katherine]

Okay. Rock, paper scissors for it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Rock, paper, scissors, shoot.

[Mary Katherine]

No.

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[Mary Katherine]

Hey guys, we are back on normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kasner.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I am Carol Markowitz. Big news, Mary Katherine. Donald Trump is not dead and he didn't resign. That was the other insane thing that people were speculating that he was going to hold a press conference and resign because they had never even heard of Donald Trump before. To imagine that he would do something like that.

[Mary Katherine]

Yeah, I just, guys, the left has.

[Carol Markowitz]

Their own conspiracy theory insanity like this. But then it makes me feel worse overall, you know, like, it's like I'm glad the right doesn't have a monopoly on crazy people believing crazy things and just asking questions, just asking really stupid questions. But then it does make me worried about the country as a whole.

[Mary Katherine]

Well, and we also have a troll in chief, which means once he knows that this is what people do, when he takes two days off, he's gonna start taking two days off so that people will just absolutely spin out online and then he can come back and be like, tricked ya, I'm alive.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. The other thing about that troll in chief is that he has an incredible ability to unmask the other side. I think that he makes them do and say crazy things. Let's hear from Tim Walls, who was Kamala Harris's VP pick because he was such a normal guy, Mary Katherine. He was such a normal guy. He would appeal to other normal guys. And then he said this.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You get up in the morning and you doom scroll through things and although I will say this, the last few days you woke up thinking there might be news. Just saying, just saying there will be news sometime. Just so you know, there will be news.

[Carol Markowitz]

Really? There will be news. Donald Trump will die someday. Is that what you're sharing with us, Tim Walls?

[Mary Katherine]

Also, just like in addition to being creepy and trashy, it's so online because unfortunately we to some extent we have to live our lives on, on the Internets, on the social medias but for normal people over Labor Day weekend, they were not experiencing the crash out of the left fantasizing that Trump was dead. But Tim Walsh, of course, was, because despite being a very normal football coach, this is the life that he. This is the circle he's in. And he knew that everyone he was talking to at that event would be conversant in the idea that this was the big fantasy over the weekend. And I just doesn't. Doesn't speak well. Doesn't speak well.

[Carol Markowitz]

You guys are weird. You guys are weird. Stop being weird.

[Mary Katherine]

Okay. In addition to coming back, you know, from his weekend hiatus, Trump came back strong.

[Carol Markowitz]

I thought you were going to say Weekend at Bernie's, but okay.

[Mary Katherine]

He came back strong with announcements that, you know, when we had sort of anticipated this, that National Guard will be deployed in Chicago, I think Baltimore is on a possibility list. The announcements have kept it mostly to immigration enforcement, which is a federal issue. But it's clear that Trump wants to solve other problems as well. The problems of general violence and violent crime in these cities that the cities themselves have not solved. And he's just like, we're going to go do it. We're gonna go do it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. And for some reason, the governors of those states are like, no, don't. Don't help us with our crime problem. We don't like you. And that's supposed to be a normal thing for them to be doing. Instead of saying, you know, this isn't the President's problem, we're gonna get on this. We are going to do A, B, and C to help fight crime in these cities. Instead of that, they're pretending there is no crime, which I'm just not sure is the right strategy here.

[Mary Katherine]

Yeah. And I'm. I'm sympathetic to governors or mayors who are like, whoa, this isn't within your power. There are certain things you can do here. But I think the. The biggest utility of Trump saying he's going to do these things, or if you just end up with the National Guard standing in front of a few federal buildings.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure.

[Mary Katherine]

The, the. The thing it's best at is shaming cities into doing the jobs they should have been doing, because it points out, okay, there is a real problem here. And perhaps, Perhaps there's a solution that includes the presence of law enforcement and sometimes National Guard. Right. And so it shows that there is a solution, which then makes the J.B. pritzkers Governor of Illinois or Wes Moore Governor of Maryland, go. Now everybody sees that there could be a way to solve this problem.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes. Nobody wants that perhaps we should get.

[Mary Katherine]

On solving this problem. So I think the utility is there. I get their concerns, and I have concerns, too. But the thing is, you can't tell regular people that zero murders is not pretty good. Like, that's a pretty good outcome in D.C. over a week and a half when you have three or four murders a week normally. So a lot of folks just go like, I don't know, it sounds nice to have these guys around for a little while and keep things under control.

[Carol Markowitz]

And as we pointed out in a previous episode, there are National Guard troops in the New York City subway for similar reasons. And nobody seems to have a problem with that. That's not fascism. This is fascism.

[Mary Katherine]

Let's also note National Guard in the nation's capital after January 6th for like six to eight months.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Katherine]

They were there.

[Carol Markowitz]

That wasn't fascism in very large numbers.

[Mary Katherine]

Right. So this is not an unprecedented thing. And the fact is there are real problems in these cities. And let me let you hear J.B. pritzker, the governor of Illinois, who should be on top of solving these problems, tell you what he thinks about them. You're going to hear people, especially this past weekend, 54 shot, seven dead.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Katherine]

They're gonna say, the city's not safe. Would you ask your friends to ride the L after midnight or after, you know, 9 o' clock at night even to come down to the city from o'? Hare?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Look, big cities have crime. There's no doubt about it. But let's just pay attention to what President Trump is doing targeting Chicago. He's overlooking red states that have much higher crime rates.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. I mean, you can't say that. Oh, just big cities just have crime and that's the way it is and expect that to be okay. Donald Trump is actually saying, we can help solve this. We can help with this. You can't be the governor of Illinois and say, no, thank you. This is just the way it is.

[Mary Katherine]

Yeah. What it does is say, and Brandon Johnson is the same way, who's the mayor of Chicago? Brandon Johnson. Oh, gosh. That guy has like a 6% approval rating. And this is why his quote was something like similar, which is like, there's always crime in big cities. It's because of gun laws in other places. And those guns somehow magically get to Chicago and magically start working to kill other people here more than they do in other places.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Indiana is always like, why are you guys looking at us? We don't have your crime rate.

[Mary Katherine]

No. And what it does is it absolves him of all responsibility and tells you he will never be solving the problem, which then makes regular people much more open to. To someone who will solve the problem.

[Carol Markowitz]

Absolutely. Inez Stepman. She lives in New York now, but she used to live in D.C. and she tweeted the other day from a visit to D.C. there is not a single solitary bum in or around Union Station. I have never seen this in my life. Extraordinary what can be accomplished with supposedly intractable problems if you just ditch the idiocy. I mean, that is huge. I see Union Station as always, you know, filled with homeless people surrounding it just the way it always was. It's the way it's been for the last decade, and it doesn't have to be that way. And I like to see that.

[Mary Katherine]

Well, and I also, one last point on this. I am open to the idea that, like, there are trade offs for having a lot of enforcement around and a lot of military presence and that there might be liberty costs here. Like, I'm open to that idea. What I'm not open to is the idea that presence causes more crime, which is somehow the, the argument they start making. Like, no, I don't think it causes more crime. I, I in fact think it lessens crime, as it has at Union Station, which I came in and out of the other day without event. And it was quite pleasant. And it was like it was 20 years ago. Not to sound like an old timer, but my friend Matt Con Netti, who writes for Commentary and other folks, noted that when I got to D.C. and when he got to D.C. in that like sort of post 911 era of the George W. Bush years, we were probably benefiting from increased presence in the streets of Washington, D.C. where we were concerned about a present terrorist threat. And as a result, it was some of the best times in the city. And now it kind of felt like that again. So presence matters, right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, absolutely. Another Donald Trump thing that he did once he confirmed that he was still alive. Pete Hegseth tweeted out a Donald Trump truth Earlier this morning, on my orders, US Military forces conducted a kinetic strike against positively identified Trendaragua narco terrorists in the southcom area of responsibility. TDA is a designated born terrorist organization operating under the control of Nicolas Maduro, responsible for mass murder, drug trafficking, sex trafficking, and acts of violence and terror across the United States and the Western Hemisphere. And then they posted the video of this little, little boat going boom. It was really something.

[Mary Katherine]

Well, and this is what the Trump administration gets. The Trump administration is interesting. It was interesting the first Time as well. Because there is this. He doesn't want to be in wars. Right. He makes that very clear. However I call it, however, however I call it occasional bellicosity. Like he likes to flex a little bit, whether it's Soleimani or this. He likes you to see the tape. He likes you to know that enemies have been taken out and quickly. The. An obvious example is the bombing in Iran, which was masterful. And it sends the message that, like, these are things we can do.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Don't mess with us.

[Mary Katherine]

We are not always interested in doing them. I like that part. I would like a little more information on this target.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, you know, I was expecting actually some pushback. It's been actually muted. Very, very muted pushb. I guess the left was startled that Donald Trump was actually still alive and off guard. Yeah. And the right, who has decided that no military use is ever okay. That part of the right also very, very quiet. I guess no Jews are involved, so who cares?

[Mary Katherine]

Well, I also think just like Americans in general are very comfortable with an occasional flex. They don't want to be boots on the ground. They don't want to do nation building, but they're like, oh, did that go well? And some people that were declared and identified terrorists are gone. We feel okay about that. We feel good about that.

[Carol Markowitz]

We'll be right back on normally with the story of a British comedian being arrested for some tweets. Pathetic. Britain don't like it at all. Be right back.

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[Mary Katherine]

Wasn't that delicious? So good. Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first. Don't be silly. You don't be silly.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Mary Katherine]

Okay. Rock, paper scissors for it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[Mary Katherine]

Shoot.

[Carol Markowitz]

No.

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[Carol Markowitz]

We are back on normally with the story of Graham Linehan. I hope I'm saying that correctly. He is an Irish comedian and co creator of one of the most popular sitcoms in Britain called Father Ted. British people, if you know British people, they just around quoting Father Ted all the time. It is a very specific kind of British humor that I don't always get, but I appreciate it. And it's insane that he was arrested at Heathrow Airport after landing from a trip to America and was told that he was being arrested because of some tweets that he had. I am concerned about the uk I see them as a very close ally. I don't know how else to look at them other than heading down a direction. That is scary to me. And what's really worrisome to me, and this is, you know, happens in America too. There's a lot of like we should. This big problem should not be dealt with because of how it will look to other people. For example, Lord David Blunkett, he was a Labor Member of Parliament for many years. Now he's in the House of Lords. He said, when police and security services get it badly wrong, they play into the hands of enemies, the people who undermine our freedom of democracy and our freedom of speech. But this part is what I'm listening for. So they play into a narrative which the Americans have come out with, which is that we no longer believe in free speech. And of course we are in favor of free speech. If you have to say it after some comedian has been arrested at your airport, it's a problem. It's not the Americans doing it to you.

[Mary Katherine]

I feel like we need to add the cardi b gif. It's like, this is what I'm saying. That's how we know. Because you just arrested somebody for tweets.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Katherine]

Our friend Charles Cook, who writes for National Review, you know, he's been watching this since he immigrated to America. He's now a citizen, but that's the country of his birth, England. And he notes that this is the new British mode. In the year 2025, Britain has a parliament that can meet to help you kill yourself, but not to protect your speech. An exchequer that can pluck the population's feathers from 9,000 different angles, but that has no interest in generating wealth. And a network of police forces that are incapable of solving the most sordid crimes imaginable, but that are sufficiently well staffed to guarantee that if an outspoken Irish comedian steps off a plane from Arizona, he will be met by enough lawmen to fill a small office.

[Carol Markowitz]

Crazy. It's really crazy. Yeah.

[Mary Katherine]

And that to me is the thing that brings this together with worries I have about our country or worries I have about Canada. Where you see things like this is the emphasis on just nailing citizens for very small offenses while favoring non citizens and or people engaged in actual violent crime. For every exception in the book, every kindness you could come up with, every bit of compassion we can muster for those folks while the actual citizens who are trying to be law abiding are getting nitpicked to death.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's terrible.

[Mary Katherine]

That's what it feels like to me in San Francisco. That's what it feels like in Toronto. That's what it feels like in London. And people are at real risk because they're speech policing instead of actually policing in what he was referring to as the groomer, gangs and gang raping of many people in the uk which is sort of given a pass.

[Carol Markowitz]

Absolutely. A Prime Minister's spokesman said this is an operational matter for the police. But the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary have been clear about about what their priorities on crime and policing are. That's tackling antisocial behavior, shoplifting and street crime as well as reducing serious violent crimes such as knife crime and violence against women. The spokesman added. Sir Keir did not agree with a comment by Elon Musk that the arrest showed Britain was now a quote, police state. But again, your concern over what America is saying about you should not be the main topic of conversation here. The fact that Elon Musk is saying it's police state, the fact that Americans are worried about Britain not having free speech. This is not what's causing the problem. The problem is being caused by the policies that you have and it's been going on for a long time. We're going to play a clip from Konstantin Kissen. This is from a few years ago where he exposed this issue originally at least to me and to many other people in the UK. In Russia last year, 400 people were arrested for things that they said on social media. 400 people in Russia. Obviously this country is very different. How many people do you think were arrested in Britain for things they said.

[Mary Katherine]

On social media last year?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Go on, take a guess.

[Mary Katherine]

I have no idea.

[Ryan Seacrest]

3300 really arrested for what they'd said on social media.

[Carol Markowitz]

What sort of things get you?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, one example I give in my.

[Carol Markowitz]

Show is there was a young woman from Liverpool called Chelsea Russell and people can look this up. Her friend was killed In a car crash 19 year old woman. And she posted lyrics of his favorite song on her Instagram and there was a rap song. So the lyrics contained several instances of the N word. She was arrested, prosecuted, found guilty, given 500 hours of community service and a fine, tagged and for a year she was under 8pm to 8am curfew. My goodness.

[Mary Katherine]

In Britain.

[Carol Markowitz]

In Britain in 2018, the police state. Yeah, there's no other way to look at that. And you know, the thing is, so Graham Lineman, the comedian, he posted his story on his substack. He also has a recording of the original. He started recording when the police approached him and what they were saying to him. And there's a moment where they say, you're under arrest. And he cannot believe it. He is just besides himself. I mean it's all, all curse words. So we're not going to play it. But there's a lot of just shock in his voice and the sounds that he's making. It is somebody who is absolutely baffled that his words on the Internet are getting him arrested. And I will say the other thing is, is like people are like, well, what did he say? He did not say anything that warrants anything even remotely close to this kind of response. I'll say that the worst thing that he said was if a man is women's bathroom, you should call the police, you should confront them and you should kick him in the balls if, if you have to. And that is the worst of it. And the rest of it is like he posted a photo of a pro trans march and he said you could smell this picture. I mean that was one of the tweets that they mentioned had gotten him into trouble. This is absolute insanity. And I don't know how British people can go on knowing that they could be arrested for this kind of thing, knowing that their words on the Internet, knowing that they're being compared unfavorably to Russia for freedom of speech.

[Mary Katherine]

Well, and first of all, if saying kick him in the balls was a crime, every single. My siblings and I would have been arrested so many times as children. But no, how do you speak at all if these are the rules? And I think he was made an example so that people know you can't be making jokes like this, you can't be making untoward comments. And again, the difference between what you use law enforcement for, like the people in our country and certainly the people of the left in Britain would tell me that the National Guard and ICE are fascists, right? That we're living in a police state because I saw National Guard when I was leaving Union Station because they had removed homeless camps and were going after people who might do violent crime. Right. I'm actually okay with that use of law enforcement and military. Those same people were happy to use law enforcement to go after people having barbecues in their backyards five years ago and would happily use it to go after wrong speak in the United States, many of them led by Nina Jankowicz, the former head of the disinformation agency within the United States government. And I just can't take their argument seriously when they come at me about the nice peaceful National Guardsmen from Minnesota standing outside Union Station.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, that's fascism. Not arresting comedians for words online.

[Mary Katherine]

This one is, and I do want to note also just a reminder about our media on this 60 Minutes, like a flagship program, interviewed German speech police. There's actually German speech police.

[Carol Markowitz]

We covered it on the show.

[Mary Katherine]

We covered it a 13 minute fawning segment a couple of months ago and this was the opening to it in the United States. Most of what anyone says, sends or streams online, even if it's hate filled or toxic, is protected as free speech under the First Amendment. But Germany is trying to bring some civility to the world wide web by policing it in a way most Americans could never imagine. As we saw, it often begins with a pre dawn wake up call from the police and then they happily tagged along for a bust on a man for speaking.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I don't want to be like Germany, but Thanks for that 60 Minutes.

[Mary Katherine]

Thanks 60 Minutes. This is bad. Y' all don't want to do this. We don't want to do this.

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, we'll be right back on. Normally where we're going to talk the US population may be shrinking, possibly shrinking. Could be shrinking and what that means Be right back on normally.

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[Mary Katherine]

Wasn't that delicious? So good. Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Seriously.

[Mary Katherine]

I insist. I insisted first. Don't be silly. You don't be silly.

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[Mary Katherine]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. No.

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[Mary Katherine]

All right. We are back on normally with more news about the American population with the, with the birth rate, with the natalism. We like to talk about babies here. We do. What's going on today?

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, Derek Thompson, he is the co author of the book I like to call Republicans for Republicanism from 20 years ago for Democrats, which is actually just called abundance, posted this tweet. The US population could shrink for the first time ever in 2025. And he says three things that could happen next. Labor shortages and construction, farming and care. Big demographic issues for New York City, LA and other big US metros. Average age in US instantly rises. Now, here's my major problem with this. For one thing, anything that has could shrink, could happen. You don't even know if it's going to happen, but you're already trying to scare us about it. But the second thing is he posted these images that are like immigrant workers in the construction labor force. 2023. I'm an immigrant. I'm an immigrant. And I don't understand why you're lumping us in with the people that were coming in illegally across the border, which is what this is. He's trying to say. Look, another thing, immigrants account for more than a quarter of all physicians at U.S. hospitals. So you're telling me that a doctor who came here 25 years ago legally is that's the concern to you? You think we're going to lose those people because we're not. That's not who we're losing. Demographic components of change. Yes. A lot of young men came in on their own across our poorest bor over the last decade. And now that's been put to a stop. So yes, our age is going to go up because we've stopped that flow. All of this is designed to make people afraid of fighting illegal immigration. If we really are going to have labor shortages in these fields, we could always have legal immigration. We could always bring in guest workers. We could do a lot of different things that we've been unable to do because we had this deluge at the border.

[Mary Katherine]

Well, it's funny because this is like a warning sign for fewer citizens means bad things. Right? But they don't care. They just mean they just need people. Right. Their argument often is that the only source of vibrancy or population should and can be only illegal immigration. And I just don't believe that to be the truth. And then if you talk about natalism and if you talk about having more babies, then you're a weirdo. But he's conceding that fewer people and an older population can be not great for societies, as we have seen in places like Japan, for instance. And so I don't know, I'm really not sure how to, how to square this circle when it comes to talking about these issues. But you're right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Especially on our last episode, we talked about the writer at the Financial Times who discovered that maybe liberals should be having more kids and the kids who are being born in the US Are largely being born to conservative families and what that means for them politically and all of that. So now that you guys have made that leap, maybe make the next leap of, yeah, we're going to need more kids.

[Mary Katherine]

By the way, the big demographic issues for New York City, L.A. and other big U.S. metros, which he notes, again, these are these, these little time bombs planted during COVID and before because there was some, you know, as cities began to turn way left and liberals began to turn way left and to forget about governing, which is what Derek Thompson is trying to encourage them to care about again.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Katherine]

People started leaving. People started leaving. And then I term it in 2020, I watched cities commit suicide.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Katherine]

I was like, yeah, you're telling commercial real estate to hollow itself out. You're telling your entire tax base that commutes in not to come. You're telling people that they're going to spend a lot of money to live in this city, but it no longer has any of the perks that it had before, like great restaurants and entertainment and zoos and museums. And also they're going to get mugged more often. It's not going to go well for you and it hasn't gone well for them. And this is going to have electoral consequences moving forward.

[Carol Markowitz]

Only someone had seen this coming. Mary Katherine, if only someone had said something.

[Mary Katherine]

I feel like we said a few things.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

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[Mary Katherine]

This is an iHeart podcast.