← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Normally Podcast: We're Talking the Epstein Investigation!
00:29:43
Loading summary
Transcript136 lines
- [00:00]
Mary Katherine Ham
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Lenovo Ad
Want to feel more creative but don't have the right laptop? Lenovo.com can help look through our legendary lineup of AI powered PCs and devices and find the one that fits your passion. Our PCs, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors as well as cutting edge AI tools, allow students to focus, learn and create with ease. That's the power of lenovo with Intel Inside plus, college students and teachers can get 5% off their order. Shop now on Lenovo. The future's waiting and it needs you.
- [00:38]
Greenlight Ad
This message is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today@green greenlight.com iheart that's greenlight.com iheart I already.
- [01:09]
Shipt Ad
Love same day delivery with Shipt, but it's so much better since I signed up for target's circle 360. Why? Cause I no longer pay price markups from the majority of stores through Shipt. Only a handful of alcohol retailers and items don't count. That means no markups on groceries, pet food, even home goods and makeup. So to recap, I have more time to catch up on life while someone shops for me and I spend less. It's a win win. Order now@shipt.com 360 terms apply.
- [01:39]
Prolon Ad
So do you want to look and feel your best this summer? Well, don't just think skin deep, think cell deep with Prolon. Prolon is a plant based nutrition program featuring soups, snacks and beverages that nourish the body while keeping it in a fasting state which triggers cellular rejuvenation and renewal, target fat loss, support lean muscle and reset your metabolism so you look and feel your best all summer long. Prolon is science backed nutrition that can help change your relationship with food in just five days. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe now@prolonlife.com iheart that's prolonlife.com iheart People choose Morton Buildings to.
- [02:22]
Morton Buildings Ad
Build a variety of buildings for their property any time of year because they know Morton buildings are built stronger, last longer, look better. If you need a garage, a stall barn or a storage building for an RV boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between. Morton can create a building for you that's attractive, easy to maintain and dependable enough to stand the test of time. Just visit MortonBuildings.com today to find out more. They use quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your structure is enjoyed by generations to come. Morton buildings is 100% employee owned with thousands of satisfied customers. That means they're the industry leader you can trust. To get started on your next building project, visit MortonBuildings.com don't delay. Construction schedules are filling up fast. So now's the time to start planning your building project with Morton. That's MortonBuildings.com.
- [03:21]
Mary Katherine Ham
Hello my guys. We are back on normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Katherine Ham.
- [03:28]
Carol Marshall
And I'm Carol Marshall. We are going to get into the news getting weird. We've put this topic off and I want people to understand we didn't not discuss Epstein because we're on the Epstein list and we want to hide our involvement or any of the conspiracy theories around it. We have not discussed Epstein because the news changes very quickly. And even as we are going to record right now for tomorrow's release, Donald Trump just 5 minutes ago posted something on Truth that we're going to get into also. And you know, it's not that easy to talk about a topic that is rapidly changing when you record a show when we're not live, even when you are live because so much changes so quickly. So we wanted to wait on Epstein and we feel like we can wait no more.
- [04:19]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yep, here we go.
- [04:21]
Carol Marshall
Let's do it.
- [04:23]
Mary Katherine Ham
Here are my basic thoughts on Epstein from the beginning. From the beginning is that at the very least this was investigated from the beginning, incompetently and probably corruptly because there were so many important people involved. He got a sweetheart deal and his first charges.
- [04:44]
Carol Marshall
Yep.
- [04:45]
Mary Katherine Ham
And throughout the thing stinks to high heaven.
- [04:49]
Carol Marshall
Right.
- [04:50]
Mary Katherine Ham
I don't know what the truth is, but I know that it is bad. And we know there are all these very real victims, many of which signed NDAs and we may never know anything about. Many of which don't want anything known about them. And they are in the files such that the files are which makes it hard to release some of that without major redactions which then lends itself to various other theories. I don't think it's wrong to think something's afoot. I just don't know what. The thing is other than I think this was slow rolled or incompetent from the beginning. And I think the Trump administration, and by the way, that was both sides with the slow rolling and the incompetence. I think the Trump administration stepped in it by promising people things that they couldn't give.
- [05:34]
Carol Marshall
Right? Yeah, that's basically where I am. Look, our second topic of the day today, which we'll get into, will be Trump's SCOTUS wins. And I just wanna say I've had a up and down relationship with the president, you know, one sided relationship. He doesn't, you know, he doesn't, he's not having any relationship with me. But you know, my feelings and thoughts on him have been up and down depending on things that he does and not, you know, not out of nowhere. But I am like peak Trump love right now. I think that he is crushing it. I think that since the Iran attack, maybe even before that, all of his moves have been in my mind stellar. The SCOTUS wins are incredible. I think he really is on a high. I've been joking that maybe it's time for me to get a MAGA hat. Like we are in a good place. Donald Trump. And I having said all that, I blame him for this. I don't blame Pam Bondi, I don't blame Kash Patel or Dan Bongino. This buck stops with Donald Trump. And when I say blame, I don't think he's covering up his own involvement at all.
- [06:35]
Mary Katherine Ham
I've never bought that theory.
- [06:37]
Carol Marshall
I can give you guys a slight piece of insidery information. A friend of a friend, somebody I really trust, worked on the Epstein investigation, hates Donald Trump, says he has nothing to do with it. I mean like, says he literally has nothing to do with it.
- [06:52]
Mary Katherine Ham
Well, this is part of the danger of all of this information is that he had connections to many very famous and powerful people, many of which were normal or innocent or transactional in normal ways, that did not touch the illegal activity. And so you can't just assume everyone involved was doing this kind of thing. I also think if this information had existed in any form or any hint at it, the Biden administration would have leaked this information 100%.
- [07:19]
Carol Marshall
Anybody who thinks the Biden administration sat on Donald Trump being involved with Jeffrey Epstein is fooling themselves. Absolutely not. Also, the side note to this is I think that money lets people kind of disregard asking additional questions. You know, when somebody has a private plane, I think that makes people be like, oh well, he's a legitimate person and he made all this money and I can go on his plane. And so a lot of people were on his plane a lot. I know some C list celebrities that were on his plane who are not, I would just say, not involved in any way. And nobody has ever mentioned them before, by the way.
- [07:56]
Mary Katherine Ham
Just to bolster that part of it, if you ever watch any of these Netflix, like scam artist documentaries, all of them charter planes and pretend that they have private planes because that's the signal that you are, you know, like you're an okay person to associate with.
- [08:09]
Carol Marshall
Right. I hope that I raise my kids to be like, I don't care if you have a private plane. Like, I'm not going somewhere with someone I don't know. On a side side note, a conservative influencer, Lauren Southern, yesterday published a whole thing about how she was sexually assaulted, allegedly by Andrew Tate. And one of the things is like, well, he had so much money and he was able to like call me a car and we went to these fancy restaurants and I was very poor and blah, blah, blah. And she blames herself, which she shouldn't. But that's what happens is that people get taken in by wealth or the illusion of wealth. And kids don't do this. It doesn't matter how rich someone is. Like verify, you know, verify who they are. You know, really don't trust everyone just because they have money.
- [08:55]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah. So I think to your point about them, about Trump bringing this on himself, you know, there were a lot of, there were promises made and then people within the administration were explicit about those promises. Like, I got the list on my desk. I don't actually think there's a list because generally people don't write down explicitly all the illegal things that they are doing in a list form. Except for the Ivy League with hiring, which I always admit that they did it by race, but that's another issue for another day.
- [09:18]
Carol Marshall
Yeah.
- [09:19]
Mary Katherine Ham
I don't know if there's an explicit list. I do know there's more information.
- [09:23]
Carol Marshall
Right.
- [09:23]
Mary Katherine Ham
I think the easy, clean answer for the Trump administration was Ghislaine Maxwell has this case in appeals. We can't do anything until that is resolved. Maxwell was Epstein's right hand woman who did a lot of the cultivating of these relationships with these underaged women.
- [09:42]
Carol Marshall
That's right.
- [09:43]
Mary Katherine Ham
A lot of the work of getting people matched up or whatever disgusting things they were into, she did a lot of that work. And a lot of people rightly say, why is this woman convicted? And we see no other people who actually did, you know, were the other side of this transaction getting punished. And I think that's a fair critique. I think the administration should have just said until this appeals case is done, we can't do anything on.
- [10:06]
Carol Marshall
That's what they should have said. We're going to read something from Sunny. Right. We mentioned that account recently on here, but Sunny points out that the brief of the United States government before the Supreme Court of the United States submitted and signed by Trump's Solicitor General, D. John Sauer, from quote from about 1994 to 2004. Petitioner and this is talking about Maxwell coordinated, facilitated and contributed to the multimillionaire financiers Jeffrey Epstein sexual abuse of numerous young women and underage girls. Petitioner and Epstein paid victims large amount of cash to provide Epstein with sexualized massages. So, yes. Were there other people involved? I'm sure that there were, but she's actually convicted of getting girls for herself and for Epstein. Um, look, I, you know, I. Another quote from Sunny from the brief is, moreover, and in order to maintain and increase his supply of victims, Maxwell and Epstein also paid certain victims to recruit additional girls to be similarly abused by Epstein. In this way, Maxwell and Epstein created a network of underage victims for Epstein to sexually exploit. Sonny points out the conviction and sentencing was not at all based upon notions that she was trafficking them for a list of clients. That saying that does not mean that we don't think there were additional people involved. It just means this is what the court case was. And I'm sure there were more people involved. We know there are more people involved. You know, victims who have spoken out, said that there were more people involved. That does not mean that that's what they convicted her on or that they.
- [11:38]
Mary Katherine Ham
Could possibly convict her on it because they don't have the evidence. I would say. I think this is a real. There is a real rift of sorts here. I think the people who care most about it are content creators and influencers and comment. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter to the base. There's a portion of the portion that cares about Epstein that really believes this is the decoder ring to all elite corruption.
- [12:04]
Carol Marshall
Right.
- [12:04]
Mary Katherine Ham
And I think there might be a kernel of truth there about how people are protected and how these systems work. But I think assuming it's the decoder ring to all this thing that you're going to break wide open is a mistake. But that being said, Trump referring to it as the Epstein hoax.
- [12:20]
Carol Marshall
Hoax. It's big. Yeah.
- [12:22]
Mary Katherine Ham
That is going to be an interesting take. I think this tests how much the portion of the portion of the base that listens to Donald Trump will buy from him.
- [12:32]
Carol Marshall
Right.
- [12:32]
Mary Katherine Ham
Like, if they care about this issue, in the past, they would have said, well, this guy's in on it too. Here we have it. The deep state won't let us know the real truth.
- [12:40]
Carol Marshall
Right.
- [12:41]
Mary Katherine Ham
Or the influencers and such might find out that indeed MAGA is what Trump says, and MAGA takes Trump's word for it, that they're being sort of swindled by the left, which is very happy to make this rift the number one story in the nation. So we shall see.
- [12:57]
Carol Marshall
I think that Donald Trump and his base have a real trust between them, for better or for worse, because I don't think trusting politicians is the best idea, but he really does have their sincere trust. So it will be interesting to see what happens when he calls the Jeffrey and Epstein hoax a scam, their new scam, and he says, my past supporters have bought into this bullshit hook, line and sinker is going to expose a rift. And there's this additional element where all of the influencers who despise Israel have decided that this is a Mossad plot. Yes. That would entail our intelligence services not acting on that Mossad plot. And we're going to need any evidence whatsoever other than some guy said, which is literally what this ev evidence is based on right now, to say that this was an international plot in any way or an intelligence plot in any way. Because the next step, if the people aren't blaming Mossad, they are blaming our own intelligence agencies are saying that he was a CIA agent. I'm going to need to see some evidence before you say things like that. And so also back to the issue of trust. I trust Dan Bongino, I know him personally, think that he talked about this issue for years. He wanted to uncover this. He wanted to get into the FBI and uncover this. Wanted to uncover it more. So when he said like two months ago that Jeffrey Epstein actually did kill himself, I believe him. That does not mean that nobody helped. That does not mean that he didn't pay the guards to look the other way. Allegedly. I'm alleging this. That does not mean there was no involvement by anybody else in his suicide. But the medical examiner found that it was a suicide, and Dan Bongino says so, and I believe him.
- [14:42]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah. I mean, the truth is. The truth could be that this is the story and this is what the government could prove and that he did kill himself and that could just be the truth right now. That doesn't settle anything for anyone. I think no matter how much information you give them. And this goes to another trust problem, which is a bigger one than the Trump and his base, which actually does have a fairly decent trust relationship. It's the just institutional distrust.
- [15:09]
Carol Marshall
Oh, yeah.
- [15:09]
Mary Katherine Ham
And I was on Special Report talking about this issue with Guy Benson who said, you know, I'm not usually in the market for a ton of conspiracy theories, but this one has stuck, sunk from day one.
- [15:19]
Carol Marshall
Yeah.
- [15:19]
Mary Katherine Ham
And I. And I said, and not only that, I've been tricked before by assuming that the rational, simple explanation would be the right thing, as as opposed to what Russiagate actually was, as opposed to Covid disinformation.
- [15:35]
Carol Marshall
Right.
- [15:36]
Mary Katherine Ham
And so I understand people's confusion about anger, about it.
- [15:40]
Carol Marshall
Yeah, they were lied to. They don't trust anymore. And I get it. And so that's why Donald Trump, I think, is saying, yes, you don't trust anymore, but you trust me. And I'm telling you, this is not a thing. Whether or not people will accept that is. You know, it really is the tell here. It's the question of, is this where MAGA splits and there are influencers who are going to kind of do well raking in the cash from the people who turn on Trump, and they build the audience off of that. There's so much of that. Also, I wanted to mention there was a story on Monday that Donald Trump was personally calling influencers to say, lay off Pamela Bondi. This is from cnn. It's a little bit of long quote, but I'm going to read it privately. Trump has also doubled down on his support for Bondi. The president called some of the Attorney General's most vocal critics over the weekend in an effort to stem the bleeding over the Epstein files. Three sources familiar with the matter told cnn. Trump's calls included one with the conservative activist Charlie Kirk on Saturday to express his support for Bondi. The call came as prominent MAGA supporters reportedly criticized the attorney General at Kirk's Turning Point USA Student Action Summit, a Florida event aimed at mobilizing young conservatives. Members of the president's inner circle have also reached out to some of Bondi's critics to essentially ask them to ramp it down, noting that Trump at this moment was not getting rid of his attorney general. Sources cautioned that while Trump was currently still supporting Bondi, things could always change. To be clear, no one has called us, so we could say whatever we want.
- [17:06]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah.
- [17:07]
Carol Marshall
But I don't think it's fair to lay this on Pam Bondi. And again, in the world of teams, I'm kind of team Dan Bungino here, but I don't think this is Pam Bondi. I think this comes from Donald Trump. So if you're mad at Pam Bondi, you're actually mad at Donald Trump.
- [17:24]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah, I think. Look, and then the question is also, even if people are mad about it, are they happier about other things that are happening in the administration? Right. This is maybe not their top priority. What is the political salience of this issue? And that's one of the things where people who have disagreed with him about other things, like support for Israel, like whatever sort of deal we're making on Ukrainian arms, that kind of thing. Are they mad about that?
- [17:48]
Carol Marshall
Yes.
- [17:48]
Mary Katherine Ham
And that therefore, the good parts of Trump for them are not overriding this. Whereas for other people, the good parts of Trump will easily override this and they'll move on, Right?
- [17:57]
Carol Marshall
Yep, absolutely. I mean, Tucker Carlson made a comment at that TP USA comp that he said, basically, who cares about boys playing in girls sports? Like, that's just an appetizer. And I want the main dish. I'm sorry, to me, that is a main dish. To me, that is one of the main dishes. Why I'm buying a MAGA hat.
- [18:15]
Mary Katherine Ham
Also, Tucker Carlson, famous culture warrior, is disappointed that we're winning a culture war in the state. And the battleground for which right now is the state in which he lives, where they took a female representative and took away her right to vote and her right to speak on the House away from her, an elected representative.
- [18:37]
Carol Marshall
But who cares?
- [18:37]
Mary Katherine Ham
Because. Because she spoke out on this issue that he formerly very much cared about.
- [18:41]
Carol Marshall
Yeah. But now it's just nothing.
- [18:43]
Mary Katherine Ham
It's just small potatoes.
- [18:45]
Carol Marshall
And I think you're right that it is these other issues. I think Tucker has majorly turned on Israel and this, it disappoints him that Donald Trump hasn't and that he's a big Israel supporter. I'm sure there are Ukraine issues involved there as well, but Trump is crushing it, absolutely crushing it. And anybody who is on the right who says otherwise has ulterior motives or ulterior kind of person priorities more than anything else.
- [19:11]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah. And that's Trump's argument explicitly in his truth post where he says, like, I'm killing it and you guys are all talking about this other thing. I do think him calling it a hoax is going to be an interesting test of where people land. And I would just say, for the future, on these big issues, be careful what you make hay out of before you're elected and then how you handle said promises after you're elected, particularly in something that gets this much social media heat, right? When we're back on normally, we will talk a little bit about a lot of those successes.
- [19:47]
Washable Sofas Ad
Let's be real Life happens, kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep up@washablesofas.com Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out so you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Neat flexibility. Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free, mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [20:45]
Cindy Crawford
Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningfulbeauty.com.
- [21:20]
Lenovo Ad
Are you shopping for a new laptop while still trying to keep up with technology and AI? Talk about feeling burnt out. But no more. Lenovo.com makes it easier than ever to find the perfect PC. In fact, we'll break it down for you. Shop our lineup of AI PCs powered by Intel Core Ultra processors Because why deal with downloading new software when you can buy a smarter PC that already comes with all of the AI features and tools? Step 2 Find the one that fits your passion. Whether you're a creative genius, a research scientist, a hardcore gamer, or a future CEO, no dream is too big. That's the power of Lenovo. With intel inside, you can keep up with your ideas as well as any challenges you may face. Add to cart and purchase. Oh, if you're a college student or a teacher, make an education account through us and get 5% off your whole order. Shop now at lenovo.com A Better Future is waiting and it needs you.
- [22:22]
Shipt Ad
I already love same day delivery with Shipt, but it's so much better since I signed up for target's circle 360. Why? Because I no longer pay price markups from the majority of stores through Shipt. Only a handful of alcohol retailers and items don't count. That means no markups on groceries, pet food, even home goods and makeup. So to recap, I have more time to catch up on life while someone shops for me and I spend less. It's a win win. Order now@shipt.com 360 terms apply.
- [22:52]
Greenlight Ad
This message is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start risk free Greenlight trial today@greenlight.com iheart that's greenlight.com iheart.
- [23:25]
Carol Marshall
We are back on normally and we are going to talk Trump wins because they've been numerous and really far reaching. Let's just talk about the last month in SCOTUS victories in June. At the end of June, he won on immigration, resumed deportations to third third party countries. Another one in June, birthright citizenship and nationwide injunctions. Case court ruled 6 to 3 that lower courts cannot issue nationwide injunctions significantly empowering Trump's executive authority. July 8 the Mass Federal worker layoffs. The Supreme Court lifted a nationwide injunction blocking Trump's February executive order permitting large scale terminations across federal agencies, including State and Veteran affairs, without needing congressional approval. Just yesterday, as we're recording this, Education Department downsizing SCOTUS lifted a lower court block, enabling the Trump administration to lay off nearly 1,400 staff at the Department of Education. These are massive, massive victories. And I get why Trump is a little annoyed that his incredible success is being overshadowed by Jeffrey Epstein.
- [24:37]
Mary Katherine Ham
Well, and then he's also got this, the big beautiful bill through before July 4th, which I did not predict. It is a massive victory to have extended the tax rates, which were going to expire at the end of the year, is the thing that he wanted. Now it comes with a lot of other stuff that I'm not a huge fan of, but the part where he got the tax rates extended. Yep. Six months before the actual deadline. Huge. It's been a long time since I've seen that in government.
- [25:03]
Carol Marshall
Yeah.
- [25:04]
Mary Katherine Ham
And now he has, yes, indeed, the power. The boss has the power to restructure his own agencies and fire employees that work within them. Groundbreaking. I can't believe we have to go to the Supreme Court for this. But this is what, you know, lawfare looks like.
- [25:18]
Carol Marshall
This is where we got to.
- [25:19]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah, yeah. But it's good news that, you know, you can indeed restructure the Department of Education. You can indeed let go a small percentage of the giant number of bureaucrats who work within it. Not working on students educations at all, by the way. That's not what they do. That's not their job. So these are really big deals.
- [25:39]
Carol Marshall
Yeah. Let's not forget yesterday, just yesterday, Pence cast the tie breaking vote to move forward a $9.4 billion rescissions package which would defund PBS and NPR, among many, many other DOGE priorities. Three Republicans voted against it, which made no sense to me. But okay. And that is huge. That's huge. Elon Musk, come back. They're doing what you asked for.
- [26:03]
Mary Katherine Ham
Can I note, also, and this is a bit of a 180 for me, who was, I was very concerned about Trump's NATO rhetoric back in the day. Right. 2015, 16. He's saying, I don't know about Article 5, I don't know about defending all these people because he is more of a restrainer, foreign policy guy. And it made me nervous. And then this week, the Secretary General of NATO is in town, Mark Ruta, who, by the way, kind of a looker, really tall, drink of water, that guy. He ran into him at Special Report this week.
- [26:35]
Carol Marshall
I thought you'd be like, I ran into him at Whole Foods this week.
- [26:37]
Mary Katherine Ham
No, no, no. So he was in town, they do the Oval Office presentation and he has, as I just went back in time and read some of the coverage from 2018, when Trump was first engaging with NATO. And it's all so hysterical about what's going to happen in NATO and how he's going to weaken NATO and how he's going to ruin this huge alliance. Right.
- [26:57]
Carol Marshall
Yeah.
- [26:57]
Mary Katherine Ham
And that asking these countries to pledge 2% is unthinkable was the word used. Right. And Europe's going to hate us. Okay. At the time, five of the countries in NATO were contributing 2% of their GDP to defense. Not only have they hit the 2% mark in the world since Donald Trump started suggesting this, but now all but one have pledged to get to 5%.
- [27:19]
Carol Marshall
So it didn't destroy our relationship with them.
- [27:22]
Mary Katherine Ham
No. And actually, I would argue it's quite clear that NATO is stronger now with all of the nations contributing more than it would have been had it stayed as it was in 2018. And like, like, that is a turnaround that he will not get enough credit for. But it's pretty amazing. And Secretary General Mark Ruta is smart enough to say, he helped us make this happen. Russia helps too, by being a giant, a hole. But he helped us make this happen. And it's good for alliances, it's good for the Western world. And that is a pretty impressive turnaround since 2018.
- [27:59]
Carol Marshall
Did you envision normally that we would be like, oh my God, Donald Trump's doing all this amazing stuff and conservatives, other conservatives like his MAGA people are not giving him any credit for it. Like, I, I didn't see this coming.
- [28:14]
Mary Katherine Ham
He just, people ignore these giant things.
- [28:17]
Carol Marshall
Yeah.
- [28:17]
Mary Katherine Ham
And I'm like, do y' all remember the first term?
- [28:21]
Carol Marshall
Right?
- [28:21]
Mary Katherine Ham
You remember?
- [28:22]
Carol Marshall
Yeah. Donald Trump, absolutely crushing it. We love to see it. Let's take a short break and we'll come back and tell you how not to destroy your relationship with your family over politics. Be right back on.
- [28:34]
Washable Sofas Ad
Normally tired of spills and stains on your sofa, WashablesOfAs.com has your back. Featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable style slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your annabe sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back Upgrade now@washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [29:36]
Cindy Crawford
Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty, beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.
- [30:11]
Lenovo Ad
Are you shopping for a new laptop while still trying to keep up with technology and AI? Talk about feeling burnt out. But no more. Lenovo.com makes it easier than ever to find the perfect PC. In fact, we'll break it down for you. Shop our lineup of AI PCs powered by Intel Core Ultra processors. Because why deal with downloading new software when you can buy a smarter PC that already comes with all of the AI features and tools? Step 2 Find the one that fits your passion. Whether you're a creative genius, a research scientist, a hardcore gamer, or a future CEO, no dream is too big. That's the power of Lenovo. With intel inside, you can keep up with your ideas as well as any challenges you may face. Add to cart and purchase. Oh, if you're a college student or a teacher, make an education account through us and get 5% off your whole order. Shop now at Lenovo. A better future is waiting and it needs you.
- [31:13]
Shipt Ad
My favorite thing about Shipt since I signed up for target circle360 no price markups when I order same day delivery from tons of local stores. Only a handful of alcohol retailers and items don't count. I won't lie, I've had too much fun being like Markups on groceries not in my fridge. Markups on pet food not for my dog. Markups on tools, electronics, home goods, meds. Not in my house. Anyway. It's awesome. Order now@shipt.com 360 terms apply.
- [31:43]
Prolon Ad
This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Navy Federal can help you find and finance the right vehicle with ease. And this summer you're in the driver's seat with savings. You can get a $250 bonus when you buy your next car through Navy Federal's car buying service. Powered by TrueCar and finance with Navy Federal. With this tool, you can find the vehicle that's right for you as you search through inventory and compare models. And you could get an amazing rate when you finance with Navy Federal. Navy Federal strives to support all active duty veterans and their families to achieve their personal and financial goals, and this partnership with TrueCar is one of the many tools Navy Federal uses to help its members make your plan with Navy Federal and TrueCar today. Navy Federal Credit Union to qualify for the $250 bonus, car purchase and financing must be completed by September 2, 2025. Terms and conditions apply and are available at navyfederal.org TrueCar Credit and Collateral subject to approval. Navy Federal is insured by ncua.
- [32:58]
Carol Marshall
Welcome back On Normale. We here at Normale do not think that politics should destroy family relationships. It's kind of an easy call. However, for some reason, people don't make the same one as us. Why is that, Mary Kathryn?
- [33:13]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah, well, they're writing about it in the New York Times, which is helpful to us. There's an op ed this week that explicates some of this. It is entitled is it time to stop snubbing your right wing family? Written this week maybe by David Litt, who is an author and was a speechwriter for Obama. And let's just like lay out the characters in this op ed. One is David Litt, who hasn't. This is how he describes himself. I was one of President Obama's speechwriters and had an Ivy League degree. This is Matt Kapler, his brother in law, who he met in 2012. He was a huge Joe Rogan fan and went on to get his electrician's license. Okay, okay. All right. So this is his brother in law. It's his wife's little brother.
- [33:58]
Carol Marshall
Yeah.
- [34:00]
Mary Katherine Ham
Around the pandemic, he just decides this guy wasn't willing to get vaccinated and I therefore am not going to hang out with him anymore. I'm not gonna talk to him. I'm not even going to be polite to him. And this is what he admits. My frostiness wasn't personal. It was strategic. Being unfriendly to people who turned down the vaccine felt like the right thing to do. How else could we motivate them to mend their ways? He then cites historical examples of shunning from society and puts himself weirdly on the side of the anti Hester Prynne society. In the Scarlet Letter, he's like, the whole point of Hester Prynne's Scarlet Letter was to show she had violated norms. Is that what we're doing now?
- [34:38]
Carol Marshall
Right, right. I kind of saw her as the hero of that story.
- [34:42]
Mary Katherine Ham
I think he missed the point in literature class. This guy's a jerk and he's writing about it in the New York Times.
- [34:49]
Carol Marshall
Yeah, it really is something that people like him think that they're the good guy. He talks about how, as it was on the rare and always outdoor occ. Malaysians, of course, always outdoor because the dirty, dirty relative wasn't vaccinated. I mean, I'm ad libbing that now. When we saw each other, I spoke in disapproving snippets. Work's been good. I would never talk to that person again. I know this is a segment about be Good to your family, even among politics. But I'm not gonna be good to people who are a holes to me. And that's really on the, you know, on his brother in law, Matt, still accepting him, still going surfing with him, still finding a way to be okay with him. Find that Matt is the person I'd want to be friends with in the story and not David.
- [35:34]
Mary Katherine Ham
Matt the surfer sounds like a lovely person, Right. And also fixing my electricity is a more useful skill than writing a New York Times op ed. And I say that as somebody who writes op ed. The thing is, and this is what lit believes, he has taken this man's political actions and actions outside of the family and turned them into. Well, he's being a jerk to me, right? And this is how he expresses it. He doesn't apply it like he's. This is not a personal interaction they're having. Again, he's only seeing him outside. And by the way, the vaccine didn't protect you from getting it or passing it anyway. I'm not sure if David knows that now.
- [36:15]
Carol Marshall
Yeah, I don't know. Has it been in the New York Times yet? Who knows?
- [36:18]
Mary Katherine Ham
But like, don't, don't use this kind of stuff to justify your bad behavior and then congratulate yourself still for being the good guy.
- [36:25]
Carol Marshall
Right.
- [36:26]
Mary Katherine Ham
By the way, he comes to this great conclusion, which is the one that we always teach a little late to the party here. He says they become surf buddies because honestly, he's selfish and he needs somebody to surf with. And Matt's the only person he knows that he can surf with. And he says that they, look, they made connections over things other than politics.
- [36:45]
Carol Marshall
So we are.
- [36:46]
Mary Katherine Ham
And then he adds this. And I just want to say Matt is a very good person. He says it helped that in the ocean, our places in the pecking order reversed. Matt's a very good surfer. One might call him an elite. And I am not. According to surfing's unwritten rules. He had the right to look down on me, but he never did. His generosity of spirit in the water made me rethink my own behavior on land. Matt, you're a really good dude.
- [37:11]
Carol Marshall
Yeah.
- [37:12]
Mary Katherine Ham
Is Matt looking to be set up? Do we have some friends for Matt?
- [37:15]
Carol Marshall
Right. Do we know if he's single? We don't. Let's play. I have a little comedian clip from Gianmarco Ceressi talking about how he's a progressive, but he finds his conservative friend to be a really good person. Let's roll that.
- [37:29]
J
I have progressive views, but that doesn't mean, I'm a good person. Liberals make that mistake sometimes. I have a more conservative friend, and, you know, he has views that really. He's one of those guys. And we all know those guys who's like, you see this article? No.
- [37:46]
Shipt Ad
No.
- [37:47]
J
A trans woman played volleyball, made a little girl explode. And I can't stand that shit. Because the kind of guys that complain about trans women playing women's sports are the same kind of guys that hold guys like me in high school. You run like a girl, you throw like a girl. And now they're mad because some of us followed through. But I will say in his defense, he is a wonderful human being. Better than I could ever imagine being. I'll tell you a story. Once, me and my conservative friend, we were walking down the street in New York City. In front of us was walking a woman in very high heels. As far as I could tell, she was trans. Now, at some point, this woman, she tripped on her right heel. She fell into the street right as a bus was approaching. And my conservative friend ran into the street, scooped her up just in the nick of time, helped her on her feet, sent her about her way. And then he turned to me and was like, that's why men shouldn't wear heels. Heels. It was a lot of things all at once. And I want to be clear. I didn't think that's a shitty thing to do, but if I had been alone, I would have been like, oh, no, she's dead.
- [39:00]
Carol Marshall
Yeah, I. I enjoyed that because, look, yeah, the comedian would have, you know, gendered her how she wanted to. He, you know, the trans person wanted to be gendered. The conservative friend took action and stayed the person.
- [39:11]
Mary Katherine Ham
So, you know, I think that is symbolic. There is a sort of a material, physical support for you that in these friendships, conservatives will give and they'll stick around and they'll be more forgiving. And by the way, this is not just me making stuff up. Like, every polling, every survey shows that Democrats are more. Will. Democrats and liberals are more willing to break friendships over politics, for sure. And that they have fewer of those friendships to begin with.
- [39:37]
Carol Marshall
With.
- [39:38]
Mary Katherine Ham
And I do think it's just a totally different approach to other humans where you're just taking this one thing and making it everything. And I don't think it makes for happy people or happy relationships.
- [39:50]
Carol Marshall
I agree. I'm gonna. I'm gonna wrap this up with.
- [39:52]
Mary Katherine Ham
How's Matt? Still gonna be friends with him.
- [39:54]
Carol Marshall
I know after this piece. Actually, he wrote two pieces. He wrote one for the Free Press. Also, I mean, this is his beat now. Yeah, this is. I'm gonna wrap it up with David Litt's last paragraph where he wants to let the libs know, don't worry, I still hate a lot of them. I just don't hate my brother in law. Of course he writes, There are of course some people so committed to odiousness that it defines them. If Stephen Miller wants a surf lesson, I'll decline. But are most people like that? In an age when banishment backfires, keeping the door open to unlikely friendship isn't a betrayal of principle, it's an affirmation of them. Dude, you would also find common ground with Stephen Miller. I know. I know how crazy that sounds, but it's true. Stephen Miller is a human who has also human interests and he may also like surfing and you may also be able to connect with him over it. Amazing, amazing stuff. Well, thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcast. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening and when things get weird, act normally.
- [41:00]
Cindy Crawford
Let your imagination take flight with an AI powered PC from Lenovo.
- [41:05]
Washable Sofas Ad
Whether it's creating digital art, designing new.
- [41:07]
Mary Katherine Ham
Software or building a portfolio for a.
- [41:10]
Cindy Crawford
Future career, our PCs are powered by Intel Core Ultra processors to help students unlock smarter learning and unleash their creativity.
- [41:18]
Washable Sofas Ad
That's the power of Lenovo with Intel.
- [41:21]
Cindy Crawford
Inside, all you have to do is choose the one that fits your passion. Head to lenovo.com to shop AI PCs.
- [41:27]
Washable Sofas Ad
And find your perfect companion.
- [41:29]
Cindy Crawford
Plus get 5% off when you create an education account.
- [41:35]
Prolon Ad
So do you want to look and feel your best this summer? Well, don't just think skin deep, think cell deep with Prolon. Prolon is a plant based nutrition program featuring soups, snacks and beverages that nourish the body while keeping it in a fasting state state which triggers cellular rejuvenation and renewal, target fat loss, support lean muscle and reset your metabolism so you look and feel your best all summer long. Prolon is science backed nutrition that can help change your relationship with food in just five days. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe now@prolonlife.com iheart that's prolonlife.com iheartra looking after a senior loved.
- [42:17]
Greenlight Ad
One Balance protection and independence with Greenlight's new Family Shield plan and all in one money and safety app. Monitor your senior loved ones financial accounts for suspicious activity, track their safety with place alerts and protect them with up to $1 million in identity theft coverage. Caregiving shouldn't mean sleepless nights. Enjoy more and worry less@greenlight.com familyshield that's greenlight.com familyshield introducing family freedom from t mobile.
- [42:49]
Morton Buildings Ad
We'll pay off four phones up to.
- [42:50]
Mary Katherine Ham
$3200 and give you four free phones.
- [42:52]
Morton Buildings Ad
All on America's largest 5G network.
- [42:54]
Shipt Ad
Visit t mobile.com familyfreedom.
- [42:59]
J
Up to 800.
- [43:00]
Shipt Ad
Per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phone via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement example Apple iPhone 16128 gigs 82999 eligible trade in example iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel. Contact us My favorite thing about Shipt since I signed up for target circle360 no price markups when I order same day delivery from tons of local stores. Only a handful of alcohol retailers and items don't count. I won't lie, I've had too much fun being like markups on groceries, not in my fridge. Markups on pet food, not for my dog. Markups on tools, electronics, home goods, meds, not in my house. Anyway, it's awesome. Order now@shipt.com 360 terms apply.
- [43:46]
Mary Katherine Ham
This is an iHeart podcast.