Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck - Feb 1 2026

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck - Feb 1, 2026
Date Aired: February 1, 2026

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Overview

In this lively “Sunday Hang” episode, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle a range of topics—from playful debates over iconic American food and drink, to a robust, insightful discussion about credit card interest rates, financial literacy, and housing affordability. With their characteristic blend of humor and sharp commentary, the hosts unpack both regional quirks and serious policy issues, peppered with listener calls and personal anecdotes.

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Main Topics & Key Discussion Points

1. Food Fights: Regional Delicacies and Disasters

00:47 – 06:41, 07:03 – 08:38

• Philly Cheesesteaks Controversy

  • Buck doubles down on his dislike for Philly cheesesteak, especially ones made with Cheese Whiz.
    • “Anything that has Cheese Whiz added to it is just not gourmet. It’s too peasant for my taste buds.” — Buck [01:45]
  • Clay defends Philly cheesesteak and sides with upset listener Daniel from Pennsylvania:
    • “I think you’re… you’re out to lunch. No pun intended on this one.” — Clay [01:32]

• Cincinnati Chili Dilemma

  • Clay lambasts Cincinnati chili:
    • “The whole Cincinnati chili thing, like the spaghetti chili stuff, it’s awful. It is.” — Clay [02:54]
    • “They should be embarrassed in Cincinnati for that to be the food that they are famous for.” — Clay [03:18]

• New York-Style Pizza Debate

  • Listener Reggie from NC calls NY pizza “overrated,” prompting Clay to retort that pizza is “pretty much good everywhere.”
    • “If you’re coming after pizza, it’s like, what do you got going on in your life?” — Clay [04:38]

• Chicago Malört & Polish Sausage

  • Producer Mike shares his disdain for Chicago’s infamous Malört:
    • “Malört. It's like licking a tire after chewing aspirin. It’s like cough syrup and betrayal had a baby.” — Producer Mike [05:15]
  • Buck and Clay riff on Malört and Polish sausage, poking fun at old radio segments and Chicago’s food culture.
    • Buck admits he'd never even heard of Malört before [05:40]

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2. Credit Card Interest Rates: Trump’s Proposal and Financial Literacy

09:39 – 37:42

Trump’s Proposal to Cap Interest Rates

• Clay introduces Trump’s social media post to cap credit card interest rates at 10% (currently rates can hover around 20%-36%+ depending on state and card).
  • “I don’t know that the president has the authority to be able to do this legally…” — Clay [11:32]
  • Buck: “If you miss one payment, they jack it, they skyrocket it up.” [12:45]
• Discussion shifts to whether government should even intervene in rates, and if such caps would actually alleviate people’s pain points or just move the risk elsewhere (i.e., tighter credit, squeezed banks).

Personal Experiences with Credit and Banks

• Both reveal financial rough spots in their earlier careers and the lessons learned.
  • Buck: “I was in my 30s and had a net worth in the hundreds of dollars at one point…” [13:14], but “never carried a credit card balance” [13:20]
  • Buck shares a story of $5 fee on a closed card snowballing into $300 collections call, tanking his credit. “Credit card companies act like scumbags sometimes, is my point.” [19:03]
  • Clay: Banks also routinely hit consumers with unfair fees, not just credit cards. [15:24]
• Both stress the importance of paying off balances monthly and avoiding debt:
  • “Do not carry a balance... The whole point is the discipline.” — Buck [19:57]

Listener Insights

• Hank from Annapolis warns about the “gotcha” in a one-year interest cap: “…then people will rack up huge balances and then the credit cards go back up to 20 and 21%. Then what?” [24:08]
• Sheila from Memphis shares how she explained compound interest and minimum payments to her 10-year-old grandson, to applause from both hosts.
  • “I'm glad grandma sat down because this is one of the things, Buck, that I think should be standard in every school.” — Clay [25:40]

Financial Literacy Gaps

• Both lament poor financial education in schools, noting that ignorance about compound interest, amortization tables, and credit traps leads many to financial hardship.
  • “You should learn about this in the like the ninth grade... Otherwise you're paying for that jet ski for the next 50 years.” — Buck [26:02]

Broader Context: Housing, Affordability, Minimum Wage

• Clay links Trump’s interest rate proposal and earlier talk about limiting institutional homebuyers to the larger problem: “the 2026 election is going to be decided on affordability.” [16:05]
• Buck draws parallels to minimum wage debate: policies are political signals and always about where you set the arbitrary line.
  • “Very simply put, if you’re drawing a line, you get to decide, you get to argue for where the line should be drawn.” — Buck [30:19]
• Both note how credit card companies make vast sums off transaction fees and how cash is vanishing among young people, giving card issuers increasing power and leverage. [32:33-34:10]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “The more you get angry at a Clay take, the deeper he goes on the take.” — Buck [00:47]
• “Cheesesteaks are God’s gift to man. I’m with [Daniel].” — Clay [01:32]
• “Cincinnati chili… it’s awful. They should be embarrassed. Pete Rose is rolling over in his grave.” — Clay [03:18]
• “Malört. It’s like licking a tire after chewing aspirin. It’s like cough syrup and betrayal had a baby.” — Producer Mike [05:15]
• “The credit card companies have engaged in predatory behavior. They have had to be told, ‘Stop acting like a loan shark mobster.’” — Buck [14:15]
• “They don’t teach [financial literacy] because they want you to be debt slaves. This is true. It’s not conspiracy.” — Buck [25:52]
• "Once they get you signed up, they know that you're going to be worth a decent amount to them going forward.” — Clay, on banks/airlines luring new cardholders [15:24]
• "The power of credit card companies is only going to grow in the decades ahead because young people, like my kids, never have cash.” — Clay [34:10]
• “In order to talk about [finance] intelligently, you have to have some measure of schooling on it. …We do a really poor job of explaining to kids how to balance checkbooks, how to understand mortgages…” — Clay [36:28]

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Memorable Humor & Tangents

• Clay and Buck’s banter about Buck’s new “Miami fade” haircut and Clay’s “Santa Claus beard” adds levity to the episode. Clay jokes, “You would definitely be the cool teacher with…” the new haircut [09:08].
• Playful ribbing about Polish sausage, Malört, and the infamous “broccoli hair” trend among high schoolers.
• The show’s food fight theme bookended by the serious, technical, and deeply personal discussion on credit and finances — a classic Clay & Buck blend.

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:47] – Clay’s “deep take” habit & regional food call-ins
• [01:32] – Philly cheesesteak debate
• [02:54] – Cincinnati chili showdown
• [03:53] – New York pizza controversy
• [05:15] – Malört as “worst liquor in America”
• [09:39] – Transition to Trump’s credit card interest rate proposal
• [11:17] – Detailed discussion on legal/policy background of rates
• [13:14–16:40] – Personal finance war stories and predatory credit practices
• [24:08] – Listener Hank on the risks of temporary interest caps
• [25:39] – Grandma Sheila explains compound interest to her grandson (financial ed)
• [34:10] – Cashless future and growing power of credit card companies

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Conclusion

This “Sunday Hang” delivers on the show’s promise of blending hot-button news and policy with relatable, often hilarious everyday observations. From hard stances on regional foods to candid debate on credit and savings, listeners are treated to both comic relief and actionable insights—especially around personal finance and the political theater of economic proposals. The episode is a testament to Clay and Buck’s ability to engage on multiple levels, balancing criticism, advocacy, and a healthy dose of fun.

Transcript

[Buck Sexton]

This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.

[Producer Mike]

Friday. Kick off the Winter Olympics in style with the opening ceremony from Italy, featuring a special performance by Mariah Carey. Celebrate the greatest athletes from around the globe as they come together to go for gold.

[Buck Sexton]

Lipsy for sensational.

[Producer Mike]

The opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics.

[Buck Sexton]

Ilia Malady redefining the sport Friday at.

[Producer Mike]

8 Eastern, 7pm Central on NBC.

[Buck Sexton]

And Peacock Sunday Hang is brought to you by Chalk Natural supplements for guys.

[Clay Travis]

Gals and nothing in between. Fuel your [e-mail] Bold, reverent, and occasionally random.

[Buck Sexton]

The Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck podcast starts now. I knew this was gonna happen. It's time for me to get a little heat. You know, Clay steers right into it. You know, he's like. And as I was, as always tell you, the more you get angry at a Clay take, the deeper he goes on the take. So just remember that, okay? This is like telling someone, please don't play with those fireworks. They make a really big boom. Like he's. Now he's going to run off into the woods with the fireworks. 100%. Here we have Daniel. This is EE on the talkbacks Daniel from Pennsylvania who listens on Newsradio Five Eighty and play EE okay, guys, I was loving your show until you went after the Philly cheesesteak man. Either you need to see a doctor.

[Clay Travis]

Or you need to have your taste buds checked or something because the Philly cheesesteak is God's gift to man. I'm with him. I think you're. You're just. You're out to lunch. No pun intended on this one.

[Buck Sexton]

Clay. Clay supports you on the cheese. I'm sorry. Anything that require that has cheese whiz added to it is just not gourmet. It is. It's just. It's too peasant for my taste buds. I. I cannot get excited about cheese wheel. So now. So there are fancy cheesesteaks out there. If you're going to slice up some delicious seasoned sirloin, melt some. Some cheese on it. And Clay, I'm going to admit something. Carrie, my wife, we made it. We went to a mozzarella making class last night to learn how to make mozzarella. And I will also admit that I didn't. You're supposed to make it and bring it home. I couldn't get. I just ate it.

[Clay Travis]

Were there other people in the mozzarella making class or is it just.

[Buck Sexton]

They're like 20p. It was like a cooking class, but for making mozzarella. So it was. We had a little date Night. So we made. I made a mouse.

[Clay Travis]

Was it all dates? Was like, what is it? All male, female? Were there any non male?

[Buck Sexton]

It was married. It was married couples from the neighborhood. Pretty much, yeah. Not really. No surprise there. You know, everyone was talking about like when they had to get back to their babysitter, including us, so. But we made some mozzarella, let me tell you. Fresh mozzarella.

[Clay Travis]

Romantic. It's very romantic. So that is fun. And you're wrong on the cheesesteak, but I'm going to take on some, some opprobrium here. I'm going to take on some, some negativity maybe from Cincinnati. You asked the question, which I thought was a good one. Is there any regional delicacy that you have tried that you are just like, this is not very good. The whole Cincinnati chili thing, like the spaghetti chili stuff, it's awful. It is. I tried it. And I understand that in Cincinnati there is a full on revolt that may well be happening right now through throughout radio. It's awful. They should be embarrassed in Cincinnati for that to be the food that they are famous for. It is atrocious. I've never heard anybody who comes to Nashville, for instance, where I live and says, you know what's really bad? Fried chicken. You know, hot fried chicken. It's awful. No one would ever say it because it would be a lie. But this Cincinnati chili stuff, Buck, it's awful. I tried. I just.

[Buck Sexton]

I'd never even heard of it. I'm looking at a photo of it right now. Looks like dog food. Not gonna lie. Can't, can't get excited about this.

[Clay Travis]

And look, I'm pro spaghetti. I'm pro chili. I am not pro. The combination of the two, it's awful. It's really a bad combo. I don't know where it started. I don't know who's responsible for it. But you can do better. Cincinnati, you have done better in the past. Pete Rose is rolling over in his grave right now over this.

[Buck Sexton]

FF Reggie Quick from North Carolina hit this one. New York style pizza, totally overrated. I've tried it. I don't get it. Nothing amazing about it. The whole, gotta have a slice. No, it's. I've had better. Way better.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, he's wrong. It's good. First of all, I don't if you're coming after pizza, it's like, what do you got going on in your life? Pizza is pretty much good everywhere. I've never had bad pizza.

[Buck Sexton]

Sunday, hang with Clay and Buck. We've got some talkbacks racked and stacked. We want to get to them, including from our own producer. Well, he's a. He's a different producer. Well, producer Michael. We got producer Mike. We got producer Michael. We will hear from him. Producer Michael in. He's a Chicago native. This is why that. That's relevant here. This is kk. He wanted to weigh in Clay and Buck.

[Clay Travis]

It's producer Mike here in Chicago, and we have the worst liquor in America. It's called Malort. It's like licking a tire after chewing aspirin. It's like cough syrup in Betrayal. Had a baby. It is awful. And the worst part is when you come to Chicago, if you go to a bar, first thing anybody's going to want to do is go two shots of Malort. Watch everybody around the bar. They'll be watching out of the corner of their eye because they know. Oh, they know. Happy New Year, guys. Have a good one.

[Buck Sexton]

Happy New Year, man. Clay, I have. Have you ever even heard of Malort?

[Clay Travis]

Never have heard of it in my life. And I feel like, you know what? I hear you.

[Buck Sexton]

You know what I hear goes great with Malort. Polish sausage. What?

[Clay Travis]

You're.

[Buck Sexton]

Chicago's the Polish sausage capital of America.

[Clay Travis]

Just. I'll just toss this out there. I bet there's been a lot of Polish sausage and Malort combos over the years. I bet one leads to the other quite frequently.

[Buck Sexton]

For those who have forgotten.

[Clay Travis]

For those who have forgotten. I wasn't on air when Buck said that his roommate introduced him to Polish sausage.

[Buck Sexton]

I had a Chicago. I actually had two Chicago roommates, and one of them introduced me to polish.

[Clay Travis]

His college roommate introduced him to Polish sausage. And the clip, I got it sent to me, I think I was out. I was out shopping.

[Buck Sexton]

I think that week we were probably talking about, you know, something really important to save the Republic. And our inbox was dominated by Polish sausage jokes. So there's that.

[Producer Mike]

Or.

[Clay Travis]

Or.

[Buck Sexton]

Or advice on how to cook the perfect Polish sausage, depending on. On how you take it. We got. You want to take some of these calls here?

[Clay Travis]

Well, yeah, we've got a couple of talkbacks, by the way, that also echo I believe what producer Mike just said there. And I'm trying to pull them up right now. Aaa Somebody else is. Is that what he just said?

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. Aa Listen, you guys dropped the ball yesterday. The absolute worst liquor that exists on the planet is Jepson's Malort.

[Clay Travis]

Give it a whirl. Again, this exact same thing. We got a bunch of people who were calling in and saying that you and I were talking about off air Jaeger is awful. Bacardi 1:51, I think is up there.

[Buck Sexton]

With even saying take the enamel off your teeth. Man, that stuff is rough.

[Clay Travis]

That is. That is a tough one, too. To. To. To. To be breaking out. We gotta. Let's see.

[Buck Sexton]

Can I just tell you what Malort.

[Clay Travis]

What?

[Buck Sexton]

Malort. On the AI says Malort is a notoriously bitter, wormwood based Swedish snaps. That sounds horrible.

[Clay Travis]

That does sound awful. By the way, Jeff in North Carolina wants to. To give you a cheesesteak recommendation since you have alienated the entire city of Philadelphia by claiming falsely that cheesesteaks are awful. Jeff.

[Producer Mike]

Yeah, he's killing us up here. Hey, eastern Pennsylvania, maybe you have to ask for a cheesesteak with sauce and onions. Probably American cheese. Coopersburg firehouse probably has the best freaking cheesesteak. I'm 55 years old. I've been eating them since I was born. Hands down. If you ever ate that, you would just be. You would be in heaven.

[Buck Sexton]

All right.

[Producer Mike]

With some thick steak fries.

[Buck Sexton]

I. That all sounds delicious. I just. I was directed toward those famous places in Philly to go to when I.

[Clay Travis]

Visited Pats and Geno's. They're great. I disagree with Buck. He's wrong on this one.

[Buck Sexton]

I. I just. You know, I just speak the truth, everybody. It's. Sometimes it's hard out there. Sometimes you got to tell people things they don't want to hear. Sundays with Clay and Buck. Please subscribe on our YouTube channel, YouTube.com clayandbuck and if you do, you can see that I went to my. My Cuban Americans here and I got a new do. And Clay says I look very Miami right now.

[Clay Travis]

Very Miami. And honestly, very youthful. I actually also said my teenage boys would be jealous, I think, of the haircut that you have just gotten. You would be very popular. Very popular in their high school right now. If you rolled in, you would definitely be the cool teacher with. It's not quite broccoli hair as the boys call it these days, but it is definitely.

[Buck Sexton]

It's like a Miami fade that I got. I just went in and just said, make my hair shorter. And this is what happens.

[Clay Travis]

Kid hair. I haven't gotten a haircut in a long time, so I do not have cool kid hair. But yes, you would 100% be very popular teenage.

[Buck Sexton]

But I'm a little. I'm a little sad right now because you have trimmed your Santa Claus beard and the white puffiness. You haven't. Oh, okay.

[Clay Travis]

No, it's just. It's it's coming in. I have not trimmed, shaved my beard since December 19th. This is an exciting.

[Buck Sexton]

I think you keep letting it go like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed style. You see his beard after he was in custody for a few years.

[Clay Travis]

Oh, yeah. Just let her tell him what it's gonna look like.

[Buck Sexton]

Just let it roll.

[Producer Mike]

Friday, kick off the Winter Olympics in style with the opening ceremony from Italy. Featuring a special performance by Mariah Carey. Celebrate the greatest actors from around the globe as they come together to go for gold. The opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics.

[Buck Sexton]

Ilia Malady redefining this Sport.

[Producer Mike]

Friday at 8 Eastern, 7 Central on NBC.

[Buck Sexton]

And Peacock Sunday, drop with Clay and Buck.

[Clay Travis]

President Trump tweeted that he was going to try to cap credit card interest rates at 10%. Right now, I believe the interest rates have crept up often north of 20% is the current credit card rate. So I've got a couple of thoughts on this. To me, basically what we talk about when we talk about credit card interest rates is what is the rate that we will allow to happen? Right. Because we're basically capping them at 25% ish. And saying that's as high as we will allow them to go.

[Buck Sexton]

I think they're capped at 36%.

[Clay Travis]

36%. Is that as high as it's allowed under traditional credit cards?

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, I think I have credit cards that are at like 29. So I mean, it's definitely higher than just like 20. It's, it's upwards of 30%.

[Clay Travis]

It may partly be state determinant, too. I will be honest with everybody out there. I am not an expert on credit card interest rates or what the rates are that are allowed. And I know they're different depending on where you might live or what your overall credit rate is. First of all, I don't know that the president has the authority to be able to do this legally. I know there's bills out there that would potentially cap this. Ted Cruz said, hey, here's my concern. He was just on with us last hour when you asked him this question. To what extent does that curtail the amount of interest that is available in the market? Because I think what the credit card companies would argue is the reason we have to have rates that high is because if we're going to extend credit to people that may not pay us back, we have to have an ability to make sure that we make the best possible profit that we can to alleviate the risk that comes with making credit card credit available to everyone. Now you just said buck your credit card Interest rate you think is 29% on your credit card? I don't even know what my credit card interest rate is.

[Buck Sexton]

I think that's if I miss a payment.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Then they jack it, they skyrocket it up. If you miss one payment, they've changed some of this stuff. I mean, look, I'll just tell you this. I have, I was in my 30s and had a net worth in the hundreds of dollars at one point. Ok. So this is not like, oh, I always pay my, I had basically a paycheck to paycheck existence until like five years ago or maybe six years ago, something like that. So what I'm saying is I never carried a credit card balance that entire time. Never once did you just pay cash.

[Clay Travis]

Or you had a debit card.

[Buck Sexton]

I just paid it off every month. Every month I paid off my credit card.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, yeah. Not that you didn't use credit cards and you say you didn't have a balance. You mean you paid it off every month. You made sure that it was not.

[Buck Sexton]

I'm saying I never, I never ran up a debt on credit card companies when I had no money and when it would have been a lot of fun to go buy like a new jet ski, I did not do. Now I understand. Some people it's groceries, some people it's, I get all this. But, but what I'm pointing out is you, you really don't want to run up credit card debt and it should be something that people are far more educated on because the rates are super high and it is non dischargeable in bankruptcy, which is the other part of this. So I, I've been on both sides. I also think that some of the credit card stuff that they do, I actually got hit by this once when I was in my 20s. They would change the due dates.

[Clay Travis]

Oh yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Kind of arbitrarily. So I'm just going to be clear. The credit card companies have engaged in predatory behavior. That has happened, that has been a real thing in recent years. They have had to be, they have had to been told stop acting like a loan shark mobster. Okay? Moving the, moving the due date around in the hopes that somebody's auto payment is then late and then they can hit you with the 30% APR. That's a scumbag, honestly fraudulent move, like it's fraud to do this. And the credit card companies had to get hit, had to get slapped with that. So they're not the good guys. I'm, I'm not taking the good guys. But what Ted Cruz says is Also true. If people need access to credit, what are you going to do? Like you get into this moral hazard thing. Like what, what do you do if somebody needs to have an emergency thousand dollars that they can go to on their credit card for whenever something comes up? What are you going to do? You're going to force people to give them the money. You're going to force people, you're going to force credit cards to try to give a lower rate. By the way, it's just going to be, it's like price controls. They're going to squeeze at one end and then you're going to get squeezing at the other end. This is what ends up happening. The money has to come from somewhere.

[Clay Travis]

I would also point out banks will screw you at every opportunity that they can too. So a lot of people talk about, you know, unfair fees that are hitting them on credit cards. Banks hit you on unfair fees all the time too. My number one advice to the extent that you can, you can do it is and, and I think most, a lot of financial advisers out there would say this. You are way less likely to spend money if you use cash. Because in your brain, this is just the way we're all wired cash. You feel it in a way that you do not when it comes to paying with a credit card. And the reason why the credit card industry works is because people live beyond their means and they take advantage of you. You ever fly on an airplane? You ever notice how often they walk around trying to get you to sign up for credit cards on an airplane? It's because the airlines now make as much money just about off their credit cards as they do actually off of the airline itself. It's one of the craziest things out there. If you're ever on a college campus, the reason why they're trying to give you away a sweatshirt to get you to sign up is because they know what the long term value of this this is going to create for them. Because the numbers are the numbers a little bit like a casino. Once they get you signed up, they know that you're going to be worth a decent amount to them going forward. Now I said it. I don't know that Trump has the ability to do it. What I will say is this in conjunction with Trump last week talking about trying to limit the number of homes that people could buy, meaning big companies buying up all the homes. This is Trump pivoting because I think his team has recognized that the 2026 election is going to be decided on affordability and people are Angry over how much prices went up during Joe Biden. And so sometimes you put out policies that are populist in nature that don't necessarily have a chance of happening just to show people that you're listening to them and hearing their complaints.

[Buck Sexton]

That's exactly right. That's what this is, the Trump gambit. This is Trump saying something that's going to do a few things without getting into the details right now, because he's moving the focus and changing the pressure here. So you point out, Clay, people feel like credit card companies. And that's why I said what I said before. But I will tell you guys something. This is actually a personal little personal anecdote. This is true when I was in the CIA, and I think I made $38,000 my first year in the CIA, something like that. And so I had no money. And my parent. I had no money set aside for me or anything like that. Okay? So I just started my job at the CIA. I moved because I couldn't afford the rent increase in the initial apartment, which was the cheapest studio apartment in this massive building. Living in D.C. i moved. And capital one, Clay. I had a zero balance, because I always had a zero balance. Capital One sent via snail mail to my old address, a $5 account closing charge. I had never, you know, was this in the fine print of my contract somewhere? Yeah, whatever. But I shut down the credit card when I moved because I was like, I never used this card. It was an emergency card that my parents set up for me when I was in college that I actually never used. One time it was like, use this if, you know, you break your leg, you're in the er. It was like, that's a break the.

[Clay Travis]

Glass emergency card if you need money.

[Buck Sexton]

And, you know, and I realized it had a 500 limit, which isn't a hell of an emergency, let's be honest. So I shut it down. They sent a $5 charge to shut it down. I found I heard nothing about this. I got a call 18 months later from a collection agency saying I owed them like $300 now, and my credit was wrecked. Over $5. That the notification they sent was completely unsatisfactory. They could have emailed me. They never emailed me. I mean, there were a whole bunch of credit card companies. Act like scumbags sometimes, is my point. That was a total. That was a total scumbag move. This is 20 years ago, and they.

[Clay Travis]

Will screw you on your credit rating, which is ultimately probably the number one most valuable financial asset that most of Us have. And a lot of times you have like parking ticket on there or you've got a cancellation fee on there that they're tanking you with.

[Buck Sexton]

This was the only missed payment of any kind like this I have ever had of any kind. I've always been very. Look, I'm going to be honest with you. He's a, he's a competitor on radio. I love the Dave Ramsey approach on this. I'm very, you know, pay cash when you can. Do not carry a balance. The whole point is the discipline. It's supposed to be hard, it's supposed to be frustrating that you can't buy the Jet Ski right now, okay, you save, you figure it out. You get there the right way. You don't go buy that, you know, that Firebird or that, I don't know, you know, Ford Mustang that goes vroom, vroom, vroom, super loud and pay like a 20% APR on the money. Like that's, you can't. These are bad decisions, ok? They're bad decisions. So at some point or at some level, you want people to be disincentivized by from doing some of these things. And a high APR does that. But I'm just saying, I also understand this. Why is it non dischargeable? But they would say if it wasn't non dischargeable that would have to then factor into the risk profile and you'd have the same problem of not having the higher rates. This is a complicated issue, but here on Trump, Clay, due to your point, because I think it's brilliant. One, sorry, I just got fired up because I still remember opening, I still remember that call from the collection agency and I was just like, you scumbags, you know.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. I mean everybody has experienced that where it is completely unfair and they're trying to take advantage of you.

[Buck Sexton]

And I'm like, and I'm like, my credit's ruined. The credit card company is getting like a 60x return on $5 for nothing. For literally nothing, for shutting down an account is absurd anyway. And yeah, I think I wouldn't have qualified for a Fannie Mae loan based on this one thing at that time, that's how bad it was because it had gone on for like a year. And once it goes on, once it goes beyond 90 days, you're screwed. My point is Trump understands this and he knows that he's putting heat on the credit card companies and he knows whether he has the right or rather the legal ability or not, Clay, he has the political ability right now, can maybe get some concessions out of them, maybe get them to not do some of the grosser stuff they do, maybe move them in the right direction. So that's the Trump gambit as I see it.

[Clay Travis]

I would also point out we're basically making a policy decision on what we're allowing the credit card companies to set their rates at. We're saying, like you couldn't have a 75% interest rates on a credit card. Right. We wouldn't allow it. So to some extent it is just a policy choice because I'm sure, look, credit card companies would take a 75% interest rate if they could. Right? Yearly APR, they would take it as high as they possibly can. This is to where people say, okay, we're going to balance this. And Trump is saying to his credit, this is a one year thing, which also looks even more political. Right. To be fair. Oh, the one year happens to correspond with the midterm when you'll be on the ballot basically for the last time of your political career. Again, it's political in nature. I think it's acknowledging affordability related issues. I'm not sure how impactful in terms of getting it to actually occur this will be.

[Buck Sexton]

The credit card thing, it's one of these Clay. It's a little bit like the minimum wage conversation. It sounds at first like it's. Oh, it's like technical and financial. No, people really feel this one. People the same way people really feel gas prices when they're high. When you get people fired up about credit card companies especially because like I said, I'm familiar with this. It happened to me. And I know credit card companies have had to be slapped down because they're doing scumbag stuff.

[Clay Travis]

That's just the truth.

[Buck Sexton]

They have. You can go back and look at this. They've had to pay different settlements and things. So they're not like the good guys. But we also kind of need them. Right, Right. So that's the other part of this BB podcast listener Hank in Annapolis. Play BB here. Hank here in Annapolis. Just responding to the credit card issue. It sounds great. 10% interest rate for one year. But then people, a lot of people will rack up huge balances and then the credit cards go back up to 20 and 21%. Then what? So I think you better be careful what you wish for on this one. Not good.

[Clay Travis]

That's actually a really good point because many people have multi year credit card balances, so it comes down to 10%. Maybe you take on more because you're like, it's only 10%. And then that was part of the.

[Buck Sexton]

That was part of the mortgage meltdown with, with mortgages where people had a resetting variable apr, variable interest rate mortgage, which is so like at first your mortgage rate was like 2% and then a few years in it went to 10. Yes, well, guess what? It's really easy to pay the 2%, but the 10 starts to bite, doesn't it? Sheila, Memphis wants to talk about this. Yep, go for it.

[Producer Mike]

Hi guys. I sat down with my 10 year old grandson last summer because he was asking for something and he goes, well, you can just put it on your credit card. And I said, okay. I said, is this something you really want a won't need or is this something you just want? Why would I don't want it? I'm like, okay, let's, let's go through this exercise. And I said, you've got a $300 credit card and you buy something for $300 and your payment comes in and you only owe $35 for your minimum payment. I said, now how much do you owe to the credit card company? And he said, well that's easy, $265. I said, no, because we're going to add interest now on your $265. So now you owe us $310. Well that's not fair. And I'm like, you're getting it, buddy.

[Buck Sexton]

Yep. Well done.

[Clay Travis]

I'm glad grandma sat down because this is one of the things, Buck, that I think should be standard in every school.

[Buck Sexton]

Financial literacy required.

[Clay Travis]

Finance should be required.

[Buck Sexton]

They don't teach it because they want you to be debt slaves. This is true. It's not conspiracy. I'm sorry. Everyone should learn about credit cards. Compound interest. Everyone should learn about mortgages.

[Clay Travis]

Mortgages.

[Buck Sexton]

And you should mortgages. You should learn about this in the like the ninth grade. And yeah, maybe it's complicated for some people, but they should at least learn what they can from it. Everybody should learn about this stuff because otherwise you're paying for that jet ski for the next 50 years. Sunday Hang is brought to you by.

[Clay Travis]

Chalk Natural supplements for guys gals and nothing in between. Fuel your [e-mail] Sunday sizzle with Clay and Buck the credit card debt discussion. Buck, I used to wonder. I didn't they don't teach you anything about mortgages. I, I, we were talking about the lack of financial literacy that comes from schools. And it is incredibly unfortunate that that is the reality that we face here is a crazy, crazy take that. I think a lot of people never actually go Into. Do you know that when you get a mortgage, 30 year or 15 year mortgage, the first several years of your mortgage payments, go look at the amortization table. I don't even think most people even know what an amortization table is. Almost all of your mortgage payments is interest. So if you wonder why is a bank always so happy to have people refi. It can be a very good decision because you can go from a 7% rate down to a 4% rate or whatever. I'm not saying it's not a smart decision, it often is. But they're giving up that rate because you go back to just paying interest to them. Most people never complete a 30 year mortgage. Some 30 year mortgages for the first decade, almost all of it is interest. And then when you look at the amortization table, by the time you get to the end of a 30 year mortgage, you're actually only then starting to pay principal. And I don't think I, I bet a huge majority of this audience pays a mortgage. I bet very few people have ever actually looked at the amortization table to recognize, oh my goodness, it's nearly a decade of a 30 year mortgage where all I'm doing is paying interest. You're not actually getting to the principal at all. Now people say, well, wait a minute, my value, yeah, hopefully your, your overall value of your home is going up. So you're building equity because that home you bought for 300,000, you know, a decade later, hopefully is worth 400,000 or something. So you're getting equity that way, but you're not actually paying it in a way that gets your equity. And I just don't think most people even understand that. Again, financial literacy, probably something along with historical literacy that so many people are getting preyed upon because they don't have the basic knowledge that is necessary.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, also, it reminds me of a very viral tweet from a long time ago. I would give credit for it, but I don't remember. But I think it was a comedian who said, I'm so glad I studied parallelograms in high school. This was in April. Obviously it'll come in so handy during parallelogram season, as in tax season, as in now we're all supposed to become accountants in our own right and know all these things and this incredibly complicated tax code. And remember, you are very the same people that'll tell you, oh, illegals, no one's illegal. You can come into the country and take whatever you want, it doesn't matter, but you better pay your darn taxes. Because if you're part of the productive class, if you're part of the now less than half of American households that even pay into the tax system instead of get benefits from the tax system, then you are a cow to be milked and you are to shut up about it and to just take, take that and deal with it. So I think that people are rightly very their interest is piqued, if you will, over the credit card rate issue because it goes to a lot of what we see right now, which is companies, corporations have things written in a way that are beneficial to them. And I would say this, Clay, ok? People will point out, they'll say, well, but what about credit? You won't get credit to poor, you know, to people that need it unless you have these rates. Well, then why do we have a cap on it at all right now? We do and people are getting credit cards.

[Clay Travis]

That's my point. We're making a policy decision on some level that we're okay at 25%, but we're not okay with 45%.

[Buck Sexton]

That's right.

[Clay Travis]

There is a level that we're willing to accept.

[Buck Sexton]

And this is where you see it's a bit like the minimum wage discussion too, where people will say, well, we shouldn't have any minimum wage, ok, but we do. And so if we do have one, we're going to argue over what it should be. And if we're going to have a cap, you know, we're if you're my very simply put, if you're drawing a line, you get to decide, you get to argue for where the line should be drawn. There are some people who will be. There should be no line. Okay, That's a different argument though, because if there is a line, we're going to argue over where that line is. We're going to debate where that line should be. And I think Trump raises that. And it's a very much like I said, the Trump gambit because maybe it's at again, I think I saw that 30. I did a quick Grok search. 36% is the like statutory cap right now on credit cards. It certainly is around 30 because I've seen 29% penalty APRs on credit cards that I have. Not that I ever hit those penalties because I refuse to carry a credit card balance. But Clay, if we could get it down to 20%, would what would that mean? Would that just mean that that credit card stocks take a bit of a hit and have to, you know, reassess some of their they're still going to give credit card, you know, they're still making money. I understand that at some level there's charge offs and you're gonna say, but it's non dischargeable in bankruptcy. And you have this huge collections industry that's going to continue to function as it does. So remember, they make money off of transaction fees every time. They're not supposed to do this. Some vendors, every time you go and you swipe that card, they're taking a.

[Clay Travis]

Percentage of the transaction, 2 or 3% typically every single time you swipe a card.

[Buck Sexton]

And that's an amazing business to be in.

[Clay Travis]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

But some places won't take the higher, I think Amex tends to have the higher, the higher swipe fee. And so they'll say we don't. You've come across this right, Clay, we don't, I've been to restaurants. They'll say we don't take American Express here. They're not supposed to do that, by the way. Like there, there's actually. And they're not, well, I should say they're not supposed to charge you more for using a credit card if you have a credit card contract with them. But some places will do that too. They're like, oh, we charge a credit card fee. That's actually a violation of their credit.

[Clay Travis]

Card agreement, by the way. Their power is only growing too because young people never have cash.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes.

[Clay Travis]

I mean, and Apple, for instance. I am almost to the top, to the point sometimes where I would rather just go out with my phone and use Apple. Pay what? You know, look, Apple is really good at figuring out how ways to monetize everything that you do. And so they could get you to pay from your phone 10 years from now. I'm not sure that there's hardly going to be anybody out there paying with cash. And I'm going to be honest with you, I love when I get in an Uber or a Waymo or a Lyft, whatever it is, it. Have you been in a cab where you basically start to get out of the cab because you're so used to being charged automatically on your phone. Everybody out there around our age, certainly younger, probably around our age because we at least used cash at some point in time. I, I, I can't count the number of times when I've actually gotten in a cab. And I just start to get out of a cab now because I'm so used to an automatic charge going to my phone. So the powers of these credit card companies is only going to grow in the Decades ahead. Because young people, like my kids never have cash. They. I give them cash because I'm like, hey, make sure that everybody is taken care of because you need to have cash in an emergency, whatever else. My kids are like, what? Why? Why would I ever need cash? So I think the power of credit card companies is only going to grow.

[Buck Sexton]

So Trump is taking a stand on that one. Also on the institutions being able to buy up single family homes. You know that that's a complicated argument, too. I know it's become very popular on the right generally to talk about how the reason home prices are so high is blackrock, for example. Massive, massive financial institution that has a very large balance sheet with a lot of homes on it. You know, they just. That's one name that they'll throw out there. But you say, well, hold on a second. First of all, if we all agree there are 20 million illegals in this country, they're living somewhere, and you say, oh, well, they're renting. Yeah, that's still housing stock that is off. So start with that. Start with, there are millions and millions of people who are being housed currently who are not supposed to be in the country. There is no way that that does not have an effect on supply and demand. It certainly does. New York City hotel room has never been more expensive than at the end of the Adams administration. And it was because 20 or 30%. It was 20 or 30, I can't remember. But a big portion of hotels were going to house illegals at the taxpayer's expense, correct? Well, if you take 20% of something off the market, guess what it does to what remains. It raises the price, it raises the cost. Supply and demand still a major effect. And on the, on the single family homes situation, you know, on the one hand, you don't want institutions buying up all these homes because you think, okay, well, they just use, you know, the, the funny money balance sheet. They have access to that. It's all just sort of numbers to them on a spreadsheet. They're not actually living in this and they're going to rise the price. On the other hand, though, you want more developers, right? You want there to be buyers ready to go so that there are more and more developers making more and more houses to keep up with population growth. So how much now? And the other side of it is. I don't think they. Someone tell me what the numbers are, guys. I think it depends where in the country. I think there are some states, Clay, where institutions own something like 20% of the single family Home St. Seems high. Other states, it's a lot lower than that, and it's dependent upon the market factors in that state. But this is a complicated discussion, you know, because sometimes things that. It's just like the minimum wage thing. Minimum wage in California is what now $25. Guess what they're doing in all these places. They're automating, they're cutting back hours. All the things that we said would happen happen.

[Clay Travis]

No 100%. And look, I mean, again, these go into complicated aspects. In order to talk about them intelligently, you have to have some measure of schooling on it. And I just think financial literacy, we do a really poor job of explaining to kids how to balance checkbooks, how to understand mortgages, how to understand what credit card interest is, to understand how quickly compound interest works against you if you have those balances running forward. And also in a positive way, how much compounding works in your favor. If you start saving, I mean, every 10 years on average, if you buy S&P 500 index funds, you're going to double your money. Well, if you're a kid and you can start saving Money when you're 18, 20 years old, by the time you're 50, you've trip, you know, double, double doubled just in the last 30 years. And then if you live fortunate enough to be 80 or 90, you start compounding that on such an incredible level. I don't think most kids think about it. It's an optimistic way to think, just to understand the larger context here. And I wish we did a better job of setting this all up.

[Buck Sexton]

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