← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
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- [00:00]
Clay Travis
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Buck Sexton
You know what's great about your investment account with the big guys? It's actually a time machine.
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Clay Travis
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Buck Sexton
Paid for by Public Investing, Inc.
- [00:31]
Clay Travis
Member FINRA and SIP.
- [00:32]
Buck Sexton
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Clay Travis
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Buck Sexton
Us when you invest 700 billion annually.
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Clay Travis
In American companies and the 13 million workers and families they support, you're investing in the success of Main Street. That's money powering growth in manufacturing, tech, energy and innovation. And it starts with private equity backing American ambition. Learn how private equity keeps American businesses growing@investmentcouncil.org paid for by the American Investment Council. Trump country is booming. We're building, hiring and winning in America because energy tax credits create jobs and put America first. Jobs and factories will come roaring back into our country. More production at home will mean stronger.
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Buck Sexton
Competition and lower prices for consumers.
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Clay Travis
And America's comeback depends on American energy. President Trump keeps Keep what works. Don't Repeal energy tax credits. Learn more at Built For America US.
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Buck Sexton
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- [02:36]
Clay Travis
Hang is brought to you by Chalk.
- [02:38]
Buck Sexton
Natural supplements for guys gals and nothing in between. Fuel your day at chalk.com bold, reverent and occasionally random. The Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck podcast starts now. It's gone mega viral there and I feel bad for the short dudes out there that are gonna have to hear this, but you all know it to be true. We always talk about like the privilege pyramid or you know, they always want to say, oh, white privilege. You and I, Buck, I think are in agreement that the number one privilege in America today is pretty girl privilege. Right? If you are a good looking woman, you are automatically elevated above everybody else no matter what your your gender is, no matter what your wealth is that I the number one privilege in America today. I would say that the thing that men are most judged for is actually more significant and more anti privilege than anything that women are judged for. And that is what the data has shown on the dating apps. Women will not date short men. And I'll give you an example of this from my own life. My wife Laura, we have been married for 21 years, almost 21 years. And I asked her once, she's five two, let me repeat that. She is five two. I said, would you have dated me if I were 5 8? She said, no, probably not. She's 5 2, Buck. She could wear heels. And if I were 5 8, I would still be clearly quite significantly taller than her. Unless they're the craziest heels ever. She is, I'm seven, I'm six foot. All right, so I, I've been good spot there. But then you convey confessed that your own wife, who you just had a baby with confessed to you. What about height situations?
- [04:37]
Clay Travis
I was the, I was the bottom of the acceptable. I am also 6ft, by the way. Clay and I are the same height. I mean depends on how swooped my hair or his hair is in any given day. But we're within certainly like a half inch of each other and we stand up back to back. We're both about 6ft tall. OK. My wife has told me, she's like, yeah, you were basically like you. It was like I was, you know, when they do the tall enough for the ride at the amusement park. I was tall. I was just barely tall enough to date.
- [05:02]
Buck Sexton
So she almost eliminated you for not being. How tall is your wife?
- [05:07]
Clay Travis
Oh, she's five three. I mean you've heard, in other words.
- [05:11]
Buck Sexton
Yes, my wife's 52 years, about 5 3. I understand for women out there, if you're like 5 9, I understand why you might want to date a guy taller. This is not our speaker.
- [05:21]
Clay Travis
We need to set some, we need to set some parameters now, everybody. And there's a bigger conversation here, too, which is that marriage formation is down. A lot of guys are, and a lot of women are taking themselves out of the sort of marriage formation pool. There are a lot of people who are, you know, not pairing up, who say they want to. I'm not talking about if you, if you choose, you don't want to do it. If you want to become a monk. Okay, wait, there's always exceptions. So please don't call and be like, I have been living in a monastery for 13 years and I, I love this life. It's like, I get it. Ok? But for most people, we're going to exclude a few things because this is my friend Jedediah. Bila was the one who shared out the data on this one. And Jedediah, she likes to, you know, you know, she was on the View, she was on Fox for many years. She, she, you know, likes to sort of give it, give it tough to both sides, I would say. And in terms of the dating and the social stuff, you know, to the guys, to the girls. And she just pointed this out, that there's, there's, the data has a real, there's a real problem with this data now. And I want to argue that this is a new thing. I think it is a new thing. Relatively new thing. Here's women who are saying, I won't date a guy shorter than me that I get so much so that I would say I, I think maybe once or twice I was on a date with a woman who was basically my height. Didn't like it. Yeah, didn't like it. I, I'm just a preference thing. Everybody, you could say that's. I just, I'm not, you know what I mean?
- [06:43]
Buck Sexton
I wouldn't date a woman who's six two. You know, like, I doesn't mean she's not attractive, but I wouldn't want to date a woman who's taller than me.
- [06:49]
Clay Travis
Yeah, like, you know, I don't want to feel like she could beat me in a game of one on one. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just, it's not really what I'm looking for. So. But, but we're not talking about that. The data shows that 85% of women online, let me repeat this, 85% of women have a problem with and don't want to date a man who is five eight or shorter. And five, eight is a very interesting metric because that is average Height, basically, right.
- [07:27]
Buck Sexton
It's 5 8, 59 is like the average guy's height in America. Yes.
- [07:29]
Clay Travis
I mean, okay, yeah, maybe it's five nine, but like, that is average male height.
- [07:33]
Buck Sexton
Yes.
- [07:34]
Clay Travis
85% of women online say that they will not date a guy who is average or less than average height. And that excludes all other factors. I'm just going to say it. There's also a thing where men online, it's a. In terms of their rating of attractiveness of women. It's a bell curve. They think, you know, they think 20% of women, they're really not, you know, 20%. 20%. Pretty good. I mean, and it goes all the way up to. Oh my gosh, 20%. Amazing. Like my dream woman, right? Women, it's like 70. Again, this is the data. Don't argue with me, OK? I'll give you the citations. This is, this is millions and millions of swipes and data on Bumble on, OkCupid, on all the. Don't, don't. So don't call in and say, well, I'm shorter, I'm taller. No, no. There's a. This is about what's happening in the aggregate millions and millions of times across the country. Clay, I just got so excited, I.
- [08:31]
Buck Sexton
Forgot where I was. But this is in Dick, my argument. I'm going to take it even further than you. So if you're angry about anything, you should reach out to Buck because he's responsible for all these opinions. I actually think women.
- [08:46]
Clay Travis
Oh, I'm sorry, real quick. Just, I don't want to. Women, basically, women think that like 10 to 15% of men are good looking and all other men are ugly. That's what the data actually shows, which is insane. Again, men, it's a bell curve. Men live in the reality here of like, you know, and also they're far more willing to go on a date. Women. Now I understand biologically, you don't have to explain this. Jordan Peterson could show up and tell me, like, I get it. They have to be choosier. And there's a different thing and there's a different imperative with that. Fine. But 80% of guys are not ugly. You know what I mean?
- [09:18]
Buck Sexton
This is crazy. So I think women are more. This. Nobody will tell you this. I think I'm right on this. I think women are more selective of men in terms of what they must have than men are of women, in other words. Let me explain this.
- [09:34]
Clay Travis
Clip that one and share that one out, team. I like it.
- [09:37]
Buck Sexton
Here's my theory on this, guys. Will fall in love with particular body parts. On women, this is 100% true. Every guy has got a guy.
- [09:48]
Clay Travis
Also, their personalities claim.
- [09:50]
Buck Sexton
Okay, I'm talking about the first time they see them. Every guy has a friend who is obsessed with long legs. Every guy has a friend who likes butts. Every guy has a friend and he cannot lie. Yes. Every guy has a friend who, like, likes boobs. Other guys are like, I don't even care about anything else. All I want is a really, really pretty face. And you'll hear, be like, that girl weighs 300 pounds. Be like, yeah, but she's got a really pretty face. Like, there are guys. Whatever attribute you have as a woman, there are guys out there that are into it. There are people, Buck, who love feet. I don't even understand this. Like, have you seen her ankles? No. No. It's not 18, 40ft.
- [10:32]
Clay Travis
It's not really for dating. That's a little bit of a different category.
- [10:34]
Buck Sexton
But sure, I think there's feet. Guys, back in the day, by the way, this is funny. Do you know what was considered scandalous in the. Oh, I used to give tours of the United States Capitol when I was in college. It was considered scandalous. This is amazing because the people who would sit in the gallery at the Senate and at the House. Do you know how women would get men's attention who were like, the congressmen and the senators. How would they be alluring?
- [11:04]
Clay Travis
Show a little ankle. Is this like Saudi Arabia?
- [11:06]
Buck Sexton
They would show their ankles and the men below would look up and they would be like, that is the best looking. I'm kidding about this. Like Sam Houston back in the day. He's on the. He's on the floor there. Davy Crockett. They would. They would be talking off. Off the. Off the floor. They'd be like, did you see the set of ankles on Tilda in the front row of the. Of the House of Representatives? I'm telling you, this is men. There are men who are into everything. I don't think there is an equivalent for women, like the height thing. If you are. I'm sorry, if you are short and bald, you better have an incredible job. You better be. You better be killing it. Because a lot of women out there are like, yeah, I don't like his hair. He doesn't have any hair. I mean, this was the George Costanza thing back in the day. There is no equivalent for women of the short bald man. And this ties in on your point about. The whole dating app world has created an artificial worldview, Buck. I'VE been talking about this. I can't get over it. There are tons of successful women out there who are choosing because they can't find a man. They are going to sperm donors and they're flipping through just picking a non actual human. Right. That they're going to interact with to have a baby with. The person is a human, but they're never going to interact with him based solely on the data on the page. Like, hey, he got a 1500 on the SAT and he went to Yale and he's six two and he's got blue eyes and hair. He, that's my guy. And you never meet him because you're trying to create a version of a man that you can't meet in real life.
- [12:45]
Clay Travis
But also the height thing, is it diminishing returns to like do seven footers clean up?
- [12:51]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, I think it's a diminishing return. I think most women would say that the ideal height window is like six foot to six four. After six four you become too tall and awkward and gangly for them. They want like six foot to six four. This is me analyzing women. And then you get too tall. But to your point, I saw you tweet this and I do think it's the important, most important aspect here is it's the only thing. I guess baldness is the other. Height and baldness are the only thing you can judge someone for that they virtually have no control over. If a guy's like, hey, I was going to date her but she's fat, people would be like, oh, can you get a load of him? Like if a guy on a dating app wrote no fat chicks, girls would be like, can. Can you can control your weight on some level? I was reading this morning the buck. They now have the. What's the peptides or whatever, the Gl, the. The glue tides, whatever that thing is. Glp.
- [13:49]
Clay Travis
Glp.
- [13:50]
Buck Sexton
Did you see Eli Lilly announced today they now have it in pill form. You're not even going to have to inject yourself on that stuff anymore. You can just take a pill which will guarantee that you lose weight and eat less and everything else. But you can work to and change everything by and large except for hair and except for height and it's the things women care about.
- [14:10]
Clay Travis
Here's you've. You've lined this up. I think that height is the most superficial metric that a person can care about. And yet all women have somehow become, you know, all women have some. And I say all women. I know not all of you. Okay? Some of you are Married to great guys who are five three. And that's wonderful. But this has become a thing in our culture and I think this is my theory. It's because of we're all sort of metrics and online obsessed now. It's about social media. It's about posting your, you know, your boyfriend or your husband on Instagram and he towers over you. And like there's this sense of. Because I don't. I understand wanting a partner to be fit. I understand wanting a partner to be smart or to have an attractive face or to, you know, all that stuff. Of course this is dating, this is mating. That's how it goes. But to be like, I mean, there's actually a meme that was going. Or a little videos going around and it was of someone who's. Who is. I was like a woman. And she's saying, you know, he's six four, criminal record, no problem, speaks no English, no problem. Like, and even the difference between I think it was 6:1 and 6:4 was like, you know, 6:1, I'll deal with your annoying. And I'll deal with an annoying mother in law. Like 6:1, I'll put. But 6:4, you know, you may be an ax murderer, but I think we still have a drink. So are we crazy on this one? Let's take some calls from the ladies on this one. Do you agree with us or do you think this is. This is. Are you seeing this? Those of you who have daughters or granddaughters too, is it. Is it bigger among them than it was? I'm like you, Clay. You think about like a lot of the biggest actors. Five, eight, Tom Cruise, like five seven.
- [15:42]
Buck Sexton
You know, but they, but they have women that make them look bigger than they are. So yes, it's true. Like Tom Cruise. Some of these guys are little. I think the best point you made is this is what the data shows. Like the anecdote doesn't really matter. I'm sure there are exceptions to the data, but it's actually quite clear that women are, I think, more judgmental of men's physical appearances than men actually are of women. I saw a funny meme yesterday too, by the way. On the same level. How much have you read Buck over the years about Barbie and unrealistic, you know, like physical expectations for women? You know, Barbie could. Have you ever seen an article about like he man or, or any number of basically Superman superheroes? You ever seen a story about how unrealistic he man's body type and like Superman's body type is and how it is so destructive to young men?
- [16:38]
Clay Travis
Well, no, because he man would have to be on massive doses of.
- [16:43]
Buck Sexton
Right. It's impossible to a large extent. Like Barbie's body is impossible. I've never seen anyone argue, oh, this is unfortunate for men. Like, how in the world can they get out of bed? They have unrealistic expectations. I think we have a one way street on a lot of this. We are deluged with responses after Buck shared the data, which is true, that women are horribly discriminating against short men. And if in fact you wanted to talk about privilege, maybe number one, pretty privilege, maybe number two, height privilege. Because I think it goes across race, gender. For men in particular, can you think of something where you'd be like, hey, what's more valuable than being six foot or taller? For men, I mean, obviously intelligence, I'm talking about just physical attributes. I think you'd probably go height. And for women, I think you probably go pretty. And those are probably the two biggest, best, most valuable assets. Now for men, you could also say there are things you work for. Right. Wealth obviously factors in. Ali has been saying off air that she thinks this is just straight biology because historically women have wanted bigger men because they protect them better than smaller men do. And I think that's probably true on average. Not to say you can't be five, four and, you know, an incredible UFC fighter back in the day in the caveman era, but probably being 64 Goliath styles, probably a little bit more of an advantage. Yeah.
- [18:05]
Clay Travis
Yes, perhaps. It's interesting to see that a lot of women are actually, as we see the listeners weighing in on this one, they're like, look, I'm not, I'm not picky about a man's, A man's, you know, hair, a man's this, that. I don't need a six pack. I don't. But I do have a height requirement. So many women have a height requirement. This is what I mean.
- [18:28]
Buck Sexton
I think that what we were saying is your wife is five three, mine is five two. Both of them have told us they would not have dated us if we were five, eight.
- [18:37]
Clay Travis
Well, no. And that clearly we both just barely were tall enough for the amusement park ride.
- [18:44]
Buck Sexton
I do. There is no male equivalent to this. There is no male equivalent, I don't think, to women's height. Again, because women, men like tall women, short women, big women, small women, like whatever you are, there is a man out there that will be in love with you. Like I said, I still love the idea. We come back, we'll Update you on everything going on and we'll take your calls and we'll have some fun. But I still love the idea of back in the 1800s, the ankle thing on the, on the balcony overlooking. This is how men are. You got a great ankle. We'll find you Sunday, hang with Clay and Buck. Allie, you are married to Gerard and he is fabulous. And Buck and I are both very big fans of his. How tall is Gerard? Gerard is six four. Six four. And how tall are you, Allie? I am five three. All right, you are five three. We have said prior. My wife is five two. Buck's wife is five three. That both of them have told us that if we were 5 8, we would not have been their dating partner and not their married partner. I will say this too, by the way, Buck, my mom is 5 4, my dad is 6 3. I bet if my dad had been 5 8, I bet I wouldn't exist. Just tossing that out there. I haven't ever asked my mom if she would have dated him if he was 5 8. She may be listening. She can let me know. But Ali, if Gerard had been 5 8, would you have ever started dating him as a 5 foot 3 woman? Oh wow. You two. I was also attracted to other things about Gerard. Uh huh. If he was 5 8, would you have dated him? Yes. 5 6. Oh my goodness, yes.
- [20:22]
Clay Travis
Like you're dialing it up here.
- [20:23]
Buck Sexton
I think she's lying. I think she's lying to us. I think because when I brought this up as we went to break at the end of the last hour, she. 5:4. Oh, Clay.
- [20:34]
Clay Travis
Oh, I can answer. There's no way. There's no way.
- [20:36]
Buck Sexton
I don't believe she would. I think ali was under 6ft.
- [20:39]
Clay Travis
Ali. I'll give, I'll give you this. I don't, I understand like male female dynamic. I understand if women. Although some women don't mind if a guy. There are women who don't mind if a guy is shorter than her. Especially if they're like if you're 6 foot tall woman now in heels.
- [20:52]
Buck Sexton
Right.
- [20:53]
Clay Travis
You're 6 3ish. Right? Probably 6 3.
- [20:56]
Buck Sexton
Would you rather be a super tall woman or a short man? Oh, I think you had to choose super tall woman. You'd rather be a six foot five woman than like a five four man.
- [21:06]
Clay Travis
I mean I'm identifying now as a six foot. A six makes you a hero. Six five woman would be. I mean that's like a. You're like bigger than a WNBA center at that. I think that aren't the WNBA centers.
- [21:16]
Buck Sexton
Like you're a giant woman if you're like six two or bigger. Like right. I mean that's very, very ride for a woman. It's like being a seven foot man.
- [21:26]
Clay Travis
So you know, I think it's, I think it's you know, women anyway. Some women will date shorter than them. I don't, I understand a woman saying I don't want to date a guy shorter than me again. What the data shows is that women like an amusement park ride have in their minds at least and it shows that they act on this when it comes to online dating. A height cut off.
- [21:48]
Buck Sexton
And every nature show, every nature show you watch shows the species and how they attract each other and the male birds will puff up and lizards will make their gills go larger, whatever, you know what I'm saying?
- [22:02]
Clay Travis
But to me that's, that's, that's like muscles. That's you know, that's maybe if you like someone's eyes, you know there's all these physical attributes but for it seems to me that height for women for male physical. Ali question. I mean this is not fair because Gerard has a six pack and a six four. So this is going to, you know, now we're really, if, if Gerard. I don't know if we'll take Gerard out of this. If you, if you have to pick for a guy height 64 or Gerard level physique. What, what are we going for here?
- [22:32]
Buck Sexton
Oh my goodness.
- [22:33]
Clay Travis
All right.
- [22:33]
Buck Sexton
If we're just going purely off physical. Yeah, I, I suppose the fit, the.
- [22:39]
Clay Travis
Fitness because I'm ok. So she would go with the fitness. That makes more sense to me. I think Ali is in a distinct minority there because I think most women, they just, they, there's this height thing, dude. I have, I've clay I'm six feet tall. I have come across women who have basically been like, you know, almost like they're doing me a favor. Like you bait like you just. This is obviously before I met Carrie, but I was single for many, many years in New York. They're like I kind of, you know, grandfathered you in. Like if I had known you weren't quite like six two, you know, I would is wild. And they're very open about this too. Like they don't. Because, because it's so objective that they don't feel bad saying it's not like they're like I wish you were better looking. Like that's just mean. But like you're a little on the short side. For me they'll just Say it to your face.
- [23:21]
Buck Sexton
But you know what really sealed the deal for me is humor. Personality and humor, like, funny is underrated. Like, I like a.
- [23:29]
Clay Travis
You're like an emotionally stable, spiritually wholesome, very kind person. You know, you're all right. You know, we did. Ali's an outlier for like. Like, depth. And as a human being, I. There are a lot of people who are superficial out there.
- [23:41]
Buck Sexton
I think that's top three for most women. I think height is one, money is two, And I think more women will admit to the height thing than the money thing. There's not a lot of rich guys with ugly women. I'm just saying it is not happened very often that you see a super rich guy with an unattractive woman. But here.
- [24:03]
Clay Travis
Here's again. I understand humor why you want a rich guy. I understand. I'm not saying that. That it's not superficial or that, you know, we. We don't wish that there was romance beyond that, but being able to provide. Unless a guy is playing in the NBA or is like a tight end in the NFL, him being 6, 6 means nothing. I. This is what I don't understand. But women love this.
- [24:27]
Buck Sexton
I think it's total. I think. I think Ali's right. I think it's total biology. I think historically, the bigger gorilla was able to protect the female gorilla from smaller gorillas. And so I think biologically, women are attracted to bigger men because they have the ability to protect Clay biologically. Look at usc.
- [24:51]
Clay Travis
But see, this is where I get. Look at you at, like, most UFC fighters are. Almost all of them are 5, 8 to 61 or 6 2. There's very few that are tall.
- [24:59]
Buck Sexton
Certainly very arbitrary. But I think this is straight biology. I think it's just like caveman days. If you were bigger, stronger, and faster, you were more likely to be able to kill a animal and provide for the female baby that she had.
- [25:14]
Clay Travis
Average UFC fighter height is 5 10.
- [25:17]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, I just.
- [25:18]
Clay Travis
Yeah, so I just put that in.
- [25:19]
Buck Sexton
Documentaries also point out lions, lions, the male lion, the bigger mane attract the female. With the speaker.
- [25:26]
Clay Travis
Maine. I get a little more. I'm like. I'm like a great. Maine is something that I can get behind there. You know what I'm saying?
- [25:32]
Buck Sexton
I think it's just. I think it's just power. And historically, the more, like, size you had as a man, the more power you tended to have. Like, let's say, do we still have.
- [25:42]
Clay Travis
David in Scottsdale, Arizona?
- [25:44]
Buck Sexton
Is he a short guy calling in, we've ruined his day?
- [25:47]
Clay Travis
No, he's 6 3. Okay, David, what have you got for us? Hi, guys. I'm six three. My girlfriend's five two. One of the first things she said is two things. She almost didn't date me because she felt bad that she was taking a tall person. But the big thing is her tall girlfriends do not like short girls taking the tall guy.
- [26:10]
Buck Sexton
Oh, that's an interesting point. I hadn't even thought about the anger that short girl with tall guy can provoke. Because if you're five nine chick, and your girlfriend who's five three takes the six two guy. I get it. I do think there's some something to your argument. Buck. In an Instagram able age, everybody wants the perfect photo. And I think there's a lot of girls out there.
- [26:31]
Clay Travis
Yeah.
- [26:32]
Buck Sexton
When they wear heels and they're wearing a fancy dress and they're going to a cocktail party or they're going to a, you know, formal event of some sort, they don't want to post a photo standing next to a guy who's shorter than them because they think it doesn't make the photo look as good. I think that is in the Instagram part of it. I think that's even more.
- [26:50]
Clay Travis
That is my. That is my thesis that social media and online dating has created this, like, rush. Rush of interest in the height situation. We got Walker in Augusta, Georgia. Hey, guys. Hey, guys. Love the show. And hearing you guys talk today remind me of a story. So I'm retired law enforcement. I was 22 years on SWAT and I was the team leader. And we had a business guy that basically sponsored our team, gave us that, you know, for extra equipment, stuff like that. And we invited him out to the range. He was shooting with us, and we were standing around the ammo table. We were jamming mags, waiting for the next iteration to come on. And we're all like, six two and taller. All of us are big dudes. And he is 5 6. And he's standing there and he's jamming mags, and he's looking around, looking around. He looks in and said, I tell you what, y' all are some big guys. But if I stand in my wallet, I'm six six.
- [27:42]
Buck Sexton
Like that.
- [27:43]
Clay Travis
And we all said, yes, sir, you're exactly right. And to that fact, he has a hot wife. I am not gonna lie. And I've been.
- [27:50]
Buck Sexton
He's.
- [27:51]
Clay Travis
He is what we call in the culture. He is what we call Walker, a short king. That is what the millennials and Gen Z now. He's a short king.
- [27:58]
Buck Sexton
That's really funny. That's a great line. And by the way, is there something to short guy being driven to be far more successful than tall guy because he knows that he has to be economically successful to get the best looking girl in a way that tall guy doesn't. In other words, is tall guy lazy? Because if you're six two or whatever, you have that height advantage for you. And five, six guy is like, I'm going to do all the work, I'm going to put in all the extra time. Maybe I, that would actually make some sense, right? Are. There's a. Here's a way to test it. Buck, this would be actually fascinating. How much correlation is there between super wealth. I don't mean like, you know, you're making a good living. I mean, like, you're a hedge fund guy. How much correlation is there between hedge fund guy, like you're making tens of millions of dollars a year and average height guy? Are hedge fund guys taller or shorter on average than like finance, bro?
- [28:59]
Clay Travis
I, I want to get. We haven't had a lady on the, on the phone lines yet. We got so much coming in though. It's so funny. What, you know, we're sitting here, we're talking about like saving the republic and, and you know, the, the Constitution and birthright citizenship. We get some calls, we talk about height in dating kaboom. Everybody, everybody's like, wow, I gotta, I gotta tell you, Geralyn in Los Angeles, what's going on? Geralyn, it's funny that you mentioned that, but because I have tried so many times to get on the air with y' all and this is the time I made it through. But I do have opinions about women dating short men. Ali. Producer Ali is absolutely correct. It's evolutionary. Women are attracted to providers and protectors and generally that means bigger, stronger, taller men who can protect us. And men are attracted to breeders, which is where the 36, 24, 36 bust to waist hip ratio comes in. However, I think you're wrong, Buck. I think more women are as evolved as producer Ali than you think. Because I think more women will compromise on things like, oh, Geralyn, Geralyn, I love where your head's going.
- [30:05]
Buck Sexton
Hold on.
- [30:05]
Clay Travis
The data that the data does not surprise what you're saying.
- [30:09]
Buck Sexton
So where do you think people compromise?
- [30:11]
Clay Travis
No, you're absolutely right about the data. That's 100 true. I just think that you're. I think if I'm on a dating app, I'm a divorced woman. I'm 40, I live in LA I'm attracted to big, strong, manly men, but there's not that many of them in L. A. By the way, Henry Cavill, if you're listening, I've been waiting for you to knock on my door for several years. Just come. He's. Henry Cavill is a maloogen for sure. I agree. Yes. Yeah. That's your comparison. That's your standard of beauty that you compare to. No, I. You're right that you never see a rich man with an ugly woman, but you will see a beautiful woman with an ugly man very often, especially in church. Because there are a lot of women who are smart enough to realize they need to be dating somebody who's a good communicator, who is not too cocky to be a poor mate, who is reliable and going to be a steady partner to raise the children with than somebody who's simply hot. And I think it's again, evolutionary that men are attracted to beautiful women more than women are attracted to. Okay, I don't, I don't. I'm not going to like the evolutionary thing.
- [31:15]
Buck Sexton
I actually agree with a lot of what she had to say there. I think she's. She's nailed a bunch.
- [31:19]
Clay Travis
No, she's a very. Geraldine, you're very astute, very high cue listener. We have so many of them and we appreciate when you call in. But let me ask you this. Do you agree with the thesis that height has become far more of a focus among women in the dating pool in America?
- [31:34]
Buck Sexton
Oh, this is a good point.
- [31:35]
Clay Travis
Than was, say, 20 or 30 years ago. Because that's really. My thesis is that online dating, Instagram, social media has made this a thing. Whereas you used to not be able to say six foot. Some women say six, two and above. I know that exists. I think that it's always been important. So, no, I rejected. I don't. More important, I think now we just have the data to prove that it's important. All right, well, Geraldine, I'm just going to tell you something. If you're. If you're a single lady in L. A, you set, you set the. If you're on a dating app, not making any assumptions, but if you're on a dating app, you set that, that, that filter to 5, 8 plus, you're going to get short kings. Just, it's going to be great, you know, just, just let those short kings make their pitch to you. And I'm telling you, you know, you'll call in, you'll be like, I got, you know, I found my. I found the love of my life. Anyway, that's. That's my little bit of and here we have a specimen from the early.
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Especially after October 7th.
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- [37:16]
Clay Travis
Of just a thesis. And I have to give credit to my friend Jedediah Bila, who's now relaunched her podcast. You know her from the View and from Fox News. For many years she shared some data. It's not even new data, but it's come up in conversation with with people that I know lately that women are. Let's just say it, okay? When we say women, we're speaking in generalities here, but something like 85% of women won't date a guy. Say they don't Want to date a guy, Maybe it's a better way of putting it. Who's under 6ft tall. And 14% of guys are actually over 6ft tall. So there's a little bit of a math mismatch here. Now, a lot of you weighed in. We'll get to some of that. A lot of talkbacks, a lot of emails, including friends of the show who have their own programs. One of them might be confused from a distance. Clay with Paul Bunyan, because he is so enormous that he. He hits his head on the bottom of the. Pretty much everyone's ceiling on a regular basis.
- [38:16]
Buck Sexton
Let me just say here, cut you off a little bit. Paul Bunyan is like a rugged, masculine, brawny man, gangly, not particularly strong, more like Jolly Green Giant, but without the muscles, is the way that I would describe Jesse Kelly.
- [38:31]
Clay Travis
Wow. Well, I'm just going to put it out there. Jesse taking some shots at the. The shorter brethren among us out there. Here's what he said. Play it. What's up? It's me, Jesse Kelly and Clay and Buck asked me if I would weigh in on the controversy that apparently has popped up over tall guys versus short guys. What women prefer, what they should prefer. So I just. I wanted to first of all clear something up. Okay. Life is all about balance, right? Everything's about striking a balance. The right amount of time at work, the right amount of time at home, the right. Everything's about a balance, right? Well, everything in our life works this way. If you're a dude who's under 6ft tall, you're most likely somebody who peaked in grade school or high school. That's actually when you stop growing as well. And during that time, usually it's the short guys. He gets the leg hair first. He drives a nicer car than everyone.
- [39:32]
Buck Sexton
Else, and for a few years, he.
- [39:34]
Clay Travis
Gets to be the top dog. Then he stops growing at 5 6, like most children do. And then the girl that used to date you now looks over at me, towering above you, and she automatically knows it's not just that I'm taller, it's that I'm a superior being in virtually every way. It's not about your income or your hair or anything else. Height is all that matters. Absolutely all that matters. And the women listening know that is true. You short guys don't get down on yourself at all. Listen, there's someone out there for everybody. There are women who will lower their standards for you, and you should thank God for them. All right, Just so you know, Jesse is like 6 9, so he thinks everybody is short. Yes. And he is leaning into this heitism, Clay in a big way. I did, I did hear a mention of hair though there.
- [40:39]
Buck Sexton
Well, he doesn't have any hair, but he's fortunate because he's so tall. Most people can't tell. Now we have other reactions. Carol Markowitz, who is a mother of three and quite, quite charming, has a.
- [40:54]
Clay Travis
Great show on the Clay and Buck podcast network, which you should all check out and normally with Mary Kathryn Ham. She's one of our wonderful podcast hosts.
- [41:01]
Buck Sexton
I think that Carol Markowitz has one of the best voices out there for a woman's host. Like when you hear her voice, it sounds like something that would be a audio book voice, not for like a professional voice actor. So here is Carol Markowitz reacting to the controversy over women not being willing, willing to date short men.
- [41:24]
Clay Travis
Hey, Clay and Buck. It's Carol Markowitz from the Carol Markowitz show and normally on the Clan Buck Podcast network.
- [41:32]
Buck Sexton
I fully agree with Buck that dating apps have destroyed dating life by making people have these unrealistic expectations.
- [41:42]
Clay Travis
People have really lost all perspective about what makes attraction and what they actually want in a partner.
- [41:50]
Buck Sexton
Online dating makes you feel like you can punch in the perfect dimensions for.
- [41:55]
Clay Travis
Your possible boyfriend or girlfriend and filter by those parameters. So why shouldn't you? But I think that for men, there's always another woman on the next swipe, so why settle for this one? And for women, they rather wait than.
- [42:11]
Buck Sexton
Get someone they don't consider perfect.
- [42:14]
Clay Travis
It's bad. My message every day, all the time.
- [42:19]
Buck Sexton
Get off the apps.
- [42:20]
Clay Travis
Go have the messy in person interactions that will show you who people really are. Let it be awkward, let it be weird, but at least it's real. Go have a real life. Go meet people in real life. You'll be so much better off. I think that's perfect. By the way, I totally agree with her. I rest my case. I think she nailed it. And we, I didn't even hear that till we just played it on the air.
- [42:44]
Buck Sexton
Now I will also submit that Carol loved the interaction, probably not surprisingly based on the comment that she just gave there of the Atlanta Brave sideline reporter and the girl that he was interviewing during the course of that game. That turned into a huge story here this week that Buck was in disbelief could have ever been controversial in any way. And I think it is kind of a refreshing take. Hey, meet somebody in person. Have an actual face to face interaction with them. And this is, I believe we've also got Lisa Booth, also a part of the Clay And Buck Podcast Network, continuing the breakdown, we just heard from Carol Markowitz and from Jesse Kelly. Here is what Lisa had to say.
- [43:30]
Clay Travis
Hey, guys. Lisa with the truth with Lisa Booth.
- [43:34]
Buck Sexton
So here's the truth.
- [43:35]
Clay Travis
Does he matter? That is the question.
- [43:39]
Buck Sexton
Well, the honest answer is, of course it does.
- [43:42]
Clay Travis
I mean, look, every woman wants to.
- [43:44]
Buck Sexton
Feel smaller than her boyfriend or her significant other. We want to feel protected in his arms.
- [43:50]
Clay Travis
So of course it matters.
- [43:52]
Buck Sexton
Of course we would rather have someone who's taller.
- [43:56]
Clay Travis
However, look, I think every woman's dated.
- [43:59]
Buck Sexton
A guy who is maybe around the same height.
- [44:02]
Clay Travis
So, yeah, I mean, look, you would.
- [44:04]
Buck Sexton
Date someone if you really fell in love with someone who is a little bit shorter.
- [44:07]
Clay Travis
It's not the end of the world, but it matters.
- [44:10]
Buck Sexton
I don't think I would go shorter.
- [44:12]
Clay Travis
Though, because, you know, this isn't limbo.
- [44:14]
Buck Sexton
You know, so, you know, so it does matter.
- [44:17]
Clay Travis
But I think a woman would make an exception for a really incredible man. Okay, Clay, I love that we basically. And we did not coordinate this. We just asked those friends of the show and, you know, they had, they had seen on Social and everything this back and forth. What's your take on it? We really have Jesse Kelly, who, let's just be honest, Jesse Kelly is a height supremacist. Ok, yes, he is a height supremacist. It's all about height with him. Everything else is secondary. And he just looks down his nose from way up there in the clouds of being 69 or 610 or whatever. @ all of us little. We're like Lilliputians and he's Gulliver and that's how the world is. Ok. Carroll takes more the, you know, the. We shouldn't be superficial and get off the apps and you're not building. You're not building like a car where you get to pick the heated seats or whatever. You're. You're meeting a person. And I think Lisa is a little bit in between of. Look, it's not everything, but it does matter and women should look into this. So I feel like we've got. I want to open up lines and talk backs and everything so people can tell us who's whose position on this they find most amenable. Do you want to do the talk back from Russell?
- [45:22]
Buck Sexton
Yeah. I also think Carol's position is a really interesting one because I don't only think women hold out and are waiting for the right guy. I actually think sometimes they hold out and then they look back and they're like, you know what? I should have gone with Guy A or guy C or guy F that I dated. And then they're also measuring not only their ideal standard, but also some other guy who went on and got married to somebody else. And they're thinking to themselves, if they stay single, man, did I blow it in that relationship, too. Right.
- [45:59]
Clay Travis
I think that's why, you know, I'm happy that it worked out for me the way I did, because I couldn't love my wife more than I do, and I think she's my soulmate, and we have the cutest baby and everything's perfect. But every lady, when Buck was single, who walked away from the Buckster, Big mistake. Just like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman. Big mistake. Huge.
- [46:15]
Buck Sexton
Well, I think, Yeah, I think that if you walk away from a relationship and then the guy ends up getting married and he's got a good family and everything else, I think a lot of those women look back, and I do think the one thing that you nailed is, I do think Instagram has changed it, because in years past, you dated a guy, but people had to come meet him. Right? Like you in order to know who your friend was dating, you went to lunch or you went to dinner or you went to a party or a social event with them, and you judged them based on face to face. There wasn't as much of an immediate, oh, what does it look like on Instagram? What does it look like on social media? And I think that many women have fallen victim to what is the social media reaction going to be to my new guy? And if it's not, hey, this is the perfect guy, then they're unhappy. And look, the numbers reflect that. We're true. Lots of women out there are now never getting married.
- [47:11]
Clay Travis
Yes. Well, that's. This is why it's actually. This is not a minor thing. This is a big issue, you know, Elon. And there's a whole other conversation here about Elon's approach to this. But I have tremendous respect for Elon. He's fantastic. Says, we're not having enough babies, which is true. If you look the chart on us. Babies over time is just slowly but surely going down. Marriage formation has also been going down, not catastrophically. And it's actually had a bit of a rebound in some demographics recently. But marriage formation is going down. And Clay, I think that we are the first generation now. We're seeing the first generation now that has had this kind of social media and online presence. I mean, here's a perfect example of this. How many women out there, when they post a photo with their not, let's say not their husband, but, you know, their boyfriend or fiance, if they're the same height or he's a little smaller, would feel weird about it. Yeah, I think. I think the number is very high, which I think is a little silly in my opinion. Caller Jared is a former Navy SEAL and he's five three. What's up, Jared? Yes, I'm so honored to finally get through to you guys, but I haven't ever. I'll be honest, I've never tried to get through you guys, but it was with Rush Limbaugh, and with you, the subject going on, I'm like, oh, Lord, I've got a call in. I got to try it one more time. And I'm so honored to actually be on. Thank you very much. So the Navy program, they want Navy SEALs to be short, the shorter you are and stealthier you'll be and less hidden. So it doesn't matter. They'll take tall men. But as a 5 foot 3 ex Navy, very proud. Okay, so, Jared, you're a badass, and we love you and we appreciate you serving our country. Let me ask you, though, tallest woman you've ever dated. Five, six.
- [49:21]
Buck Sexton
Okay.
- [49:21]
Clay Travis
You know, that's in the strikes. No, but also, you know, you're, you know, Navy guy. You show them the anchor tattoo on your bicep. You're a seal. You know, you're a little bit of a special case. I'm just gonna say this like, you know, I'm sure you did fine with the ladies. Well, you know, the point of the matter is, hey, in my world, the shorter you are, and in this world, the better you are, the more stealth you are. But you know what? Again, I go back to when you.
- [49:51]
Buck Sexton
Get in the real world.
- [49:52]
Clay Travis
Yeah, it's kind of hard to get a woman when you're my size.
- [49:56]
Buck Sexton
Thank you for the call.
- [49:57]
Clay Travis
Appreciate you calling in Jared, and thank you for your service. We got a talk back here from Russell and Salt Lake CC he listens on K. Nrs, where we are consistently number one. Thank you, Salt Lake City. We love you. Play it. Guys, guys, guys, you got it all wrong.
- [50:11]
Buck Sexton
It's not the height.
- [50:12]
Clay Travis
It's the guitar in the guy's hands. I think it's the flute, personally, but.
- [50:17]
Buck Sexton
The flute in everybody's hands. What percentage of musicians in rock bands got into music solely for girls?
- [50:25]
Clay Travis
I mean, I think Dave Navarro of. Of what is he, nine inch nails or. No, not nine inches.
- [50:30]
Buck Sexton
Red red hot chili Pepp.
- [50:32]
Clay Travis
Was he. Yeah, Red hot chili pepper. Sorry. I think he's like 52 or 5 3. Like some of these guys that are on stage, you never see anyone really sort of standing. Some of these big rock. I mean, wasn't Prince was like 4 11. He was tiny.
- [50:46]
Buck Sexton
Yeah. Actually pretty good basketball player to remember the Chappelle skit like that was based in reality. Prince was a high school basketball pretty good player in the Minneapolis area.
- [50:56]
Clay Travis
Josh in California wants to weigh in. Josh, what do you have for us? Hey, I was just calling because while.
- [51:03]
Buck Sexton
Women can hold men to standards of height, why can't we hold them to.
- [51:07]
Clay Travis
The standards of, you know, weight and.
- [51:09]
Buck Sexton
Taking care of themselves?
- [51:11]
Clay Travis
Can they cook a meal?
- [51:12]
Buck Sexton
I mean, you know, it's got to be both ways.
- [51:15]
Clay Travis
When it comes to a successful marriage.
- [51:16]
Buck Sexton
It'S not always if the guy is.
- [51:18]
Clay Travis
Just tall, but if the woman's just.
- [51:20]
Buck Sexton
Kind of, you know, I'm pretty. Josh, Josh, you're preaching to the choir here. A man who says that he doesn't want to date a fat woman is considered to be. And like, even women are just like, oh, when I just said that it's completely unacceptable, yet you can control in some way your weight. Women saying, yeah, I won't date short guys. Totally considered to be acceptable. I think that's probably the biggest disconnect between what men are allowed to say and what women are allowed to say. Women can judge men on things they can't control. Men can't even judge women on things they can control. Welcome to modern life.
- [52:01]
Clay Travis
It's. It's a jungle out there in the dating world, I will tell you that. So to all of our short kings and the ladies who love them, God bless you. You stay strong and stand tall. Made in America means something to us.
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