Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck - May 18 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck - May 18, 2025 Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck episode released on May 18, 2025, hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into pressing issues surrounding American historical storytelling in modern media and the profound impact of corporate missteps on brand integrity. The episode seamlessly transitions from discussing the representation of American history to analyzing the downfall of a major American brand, Bud Light.

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1. The Decline of Authentic American Historical Storytelling

Exploration of Missed Opportunities in Media Clay and Buck express concern over the current state of historical storytelling in media, emphasizing the scarcity of authentic American narratives. They cite the absence of compelling series about iconic American explorers like Lewis and Clark, which could rival the success of contemporary works by creators like Taylor Sheridan.

Notable Quote:

"We just don't see the rich American history stories being told the way they deserve to be."
— Joe Getty [02:10]

Challenges with Modern Sensitivities The hosts discuss the delicate balance between portraying historical figures accurately while navigating modern perspectives on colonialism and diversity. They argue that the fear of misrepresentation often stifles the creation of authentic historical content.

Notable Quote:

"Western civilization is the reason why we are not all living to a large extent still in caves."
— Buck Sexton [03:35]

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2. The Importance of Exploration and Historical Narratives

Economic Drivers Behind Exploration Clay and Buck highlight the significant role that the pursuit of spices and other valuable commodities played in the age of exploration. They underscore how these economic incentives led to monumental discoveries and the expansion of Western civilization.

Notable Quote:

"The entire exploring world was developed in the pursuit of spices and these magical spice islands."
— Buck Sexton [04:05]

Cultural Impact of Explorers Joe Getty adds depth by discussing the cultural and economic transformations brought about by explorers like Magellan and Columbus, emphasizing their lasting impact on global history.

Notable Quote:

"Spices were so valuable that they drove the world's greatest explorations."
— Joe Getty [04:25]

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3. Critique of Current Media Trends

Lack of Diversity in Historical Representation The hosts critique the current trend in media to enforce diversity, arguing that it sometimes leads to historical inaccuracies. They question the necessity of altering historical narratives to fit contemporary diversity standards, suggesting it can dilute the authenticity of the stories.

Notable Quote:

"Most of the World War II soldiers were white guys, and there's too much white guys in that narrative."
— Buck Sexton [08:21]

Failures in Modern Adaptations Clay cites recent examples of poorly received historical adaptations, such as the rendition of "Snow White," to illustrate the decline in quality and authenticity within the industry.

Notable Quote:

"It's inexcusable how these legendary stories are being mishandled."
— Joe Getty [07:50]

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4. The Bud Light Controversy: A Case Study in Brand Failure

Introduction to the Issue Buck introduces Anson Freirex, former president of Anheuser Busch and author of Last Call for Bud Light, to discuss the catastrophic decline of Bud Light following controversial endorsements and marketing missteps.

Notable Quote:

"Bud Light sales are still down 40% two years after the initial controversy."
— Buck Sexton [16:43]

Analysis of Corporate Missteps Clay and Anson delve into the reasons behind Bud Light's downfall, focusing on the brand's shift away from its traditional identity. They criticize Anheuser Busch for moving its headquarters to New York City, hiring executives unfamiliar with the U.S. consumer base, and adopting progressive policies that alienated its core customers.

Notable Quote:

"We screwed up and haven't taken accountability, which is why customers haven't returned."
— Clay Travis [17:10]

Impact of Social Media and Consumer Behavior The discussion highlights how social media amplified the boycott against Bud Light, with visible declines in sales and widespread negative feedback. The commoditized nature of Bud Light, being easily replaceable by competitors like Miller Lite and Coors Light, exacerbated the brand's vulnerability.

Notable Quote:

"Consumers couldn't tell the difference between Bud Light and its competitors, making the boycott devastating."
— Clay Travis [23:40]

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5. Broader Implications for Corporate America

Understanding the Consumer Base Buck emphasizes a broader trend where brands fail to understand and cater to their actual consumers. This disconnect leads to strategic missteps that can alienate loyal customer bases, as seen with Bud Light.

Notable Quote:

"Brands are alienating their core consumers by not knowing who they really are."
— Buck Sexton [19:50]

Legal and Ethical Considerations The conversation touches on the potential legal ramifications of corporate policies that may contravene the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Clay discusses how companies like Target have faced lawsuits for discriminatory policies, urging a return to merit-based practices.

Notable Quote:

"Allocating shelf space based on race or gender doesn't make sense in a meritocracy."
— Clay Travis [26:15]

Success Stories and Hope for the Future Despite the setbacks, Clay remains optimistic that brands can recover by returning to authenticity and prioritizing customer trust over political agendas. He cites Disney's recent leadership changes and policy rollbacks as positive examples.

Notable Quote:

"Brands need to be authentic and focus on what their customers truly want."
— Clay Travis [28:02]

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6. Conclusion and Optimism for Redemption

The episode concludes with a hopeful outlook for corporate America, stressing the importance of authenticity and customer-centric strategies. Clay and Buck believe that by learning from Bud Light's mistakes, other brands can rebuild trust and re-establish their market presence.

Notable Quote:

"Authenticity is the key to rebuilding trust with consumers."
— Clay Travis [28:28]

Final Thoughts: Clay anticipates a positive shift where brands prioritize genuine connections with their audience, moving away from divisive political stances. This, he argues, will not only benefit businesses but also support democratic values by keeping corporations out of political conflicts.

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Closing Remarks

The Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the current challenges faced by American brands and the media's portrayal of historical narratives. Through insightful discussions and expert opinions, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton shed light on the critical need for authenticity and consumer understanding in today's polarized environment.

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For those interested in an in-depth exploration of Bud Light's decline and strategies for corporate redemption, Anson Freirex's book, Last Call for Bud Light, is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Buck Sexton]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand?

[Jack Armstrong]

We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

[Buck Sexton]

He's Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Joe Getty]

How about something about a comedic tone?

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner.

[Joe Getty]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Getty]

Sunday Hang is brought to you by.

[Buck Sexton]

Chalk Natural supplements for guys, gals, and nothing in between. Fuel your [e-mail] Bold, reverent, and occasionally random.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck podcast starts now.

[Buck Sexton]

I do think, Clay, we're at the.

[Joe Getty]

Point where we need to start having a conversation and, and pulling this together with the contacts that we have. And I would just want to work, you know, work on this. Your. I think your idea about Undaunted courage, I mean, you'd have to get the rights to use the name in that book, but the story, the historical story of, of Lewis and Clark would be an incredible, incredible series. And I just see, I see. I see what Taylor Sheridan is doing and what he's tapping into, and I respect that. You know, he's. He's going.

[Buck Sexton]

He.

[Joe Getty]

He's earned what he's gotten in terms of. He is running with stuff that is more, you know, about entertainment and about America and stuff that I think some of it could be. I think he's a little overwhelmed with making too many things at once, and some of this stuff's been a little slapdash. But overall, he's incredibly. Guy's worth tons of money now because of this. But I think that getting a series done on Lois and Clark expedition would be something to consider. Man, you know, you. There's. There's ways to get this stuff done out there now and, and to raise the money and to bring people in to do it appropriately. And I just think it would be fantastic and people would really appreciate. Look, look at the, the podcast, like the Bible in a year. I mean, look at the things that are. It's always a. A shock. A shock success when you go with traditional great stories, and especially if you go with either traditional Biblical, you know, Judeo, Christian, or you go with traditional Americana. Yeah, the American market tends to like that stuff.

[Buck Sexton]

Also. The stories are incredible, right? I mean, the American history stories that haven't been told. Lewis and Clark is a no brainer. I mean if you read Undaunted Courage, but you gave me. Was it the, the Ernest Shackleton stories, I mean the great explorer stories. How have there not been. And I know it's because they're worried about, oh, colonialism. Let me just say this, clip it, share it, have it echo throughout the entire world. Western civilization is a good thing. And almost every country that was ever colonized is in a better position today than it would have been if colonial, if the colonization had never happened. I don't know why people aren't willing to say this, but Western civilization is the reason why we are not all living to a large extent still in caves. Right. You find the best things that are created in the world and you bring them to as many people as possible. I love reading about the explorers because of the risks that they took, Buck. But some of the stuff that they were risking for still blow my mind. Spices, you know, we don't even think about the value for most of us. I know some of you are probably spicy stars.

[Joe Getty]

Salt was a tremendously valuable salt. Like what we just sort of assume is going to be on every table at every restaurant and we buy by the pound for like a dollar. The word salary comes from the Roman for salt because they would pay the army in pouches of salt sometimes instead of in coin, the most spices.

[Buck Sexton]

Think about this. The entire to a large extent exploring world was developed and explored in the pursuit of spices and these magical spice islands. I mean, I encourage you if you are interested at all in the world of exploration. That era, that 1400s, 1500, 1600s, Magellan, certainly Columbus discovering the New World, all of that era is unbelievable. I mean and there's very.

[Joe Getty]

People have talked about. And I've thought this too. Cortez would be an amazing TV series. Probably the most unbelievable military conquest against the odds in all history. When you, when you actually look at it and think about what happened here, to take over for 500 men, give or take or a few hundred men to take over an empire with millions, literally millions of people. By the way, it's a salary. It's actually that they would give them some coin to buy the salt which they needed. But salary comes from, you know, it's from the root word salt in the ancient Rome. I just want to make sure I know the, you know, Clay, the pronunciation police are rough, but the word derivation police are even. They don't, they don't play any games in this. Oh man.

[Buck Sexton]

Also dirtier.

[Clay Travis]

You get.

[Buck Sexton]

Also nerdier even than the pronunciation police. The word derivation police are even nerdier. But your point, just using history, where you don't have to pay to a large extent, very much for copyright or ip because the stories are in the public domain. It is incredible to me, the stories that are not being told, that would actually be very ennobling for larger humanity. Just stories.

[Joe Getty]

I was sitting there with my dad last night, trying to figure out he's visiting down here in south. South Florida. And, you know, we're sitting there and we're trying to figure out what we're gonna watch. And we're just going through Netflix and he's, you know, he's like me, but with silver hair. It's funny, the people here that were letting him in, the. At the front desk, they're like, they didn't even call up. Like, yeah, I knew it's your dad. I just look at him. He looks like you, but with gray hair. I'm like, yeah, so. But we're looking. And he's like, trash, trash, trash on Netflix. And he's right. It's just trash that there are all these, like. He's not being a grouch. He's correct. It's just trash shows one after another that are made. And there are so many stories that are on top. I mean, I think the Barbary Pirates, if you did that well, would be awesome. People learn about. About, you know, Stephen Decatur and the Raid and all these amazing things. There's so many great stories, and there are things that people would want to see and that would inspire and that would teach history to do all this cool stuff. So I just have. That's part of it. I think everyone, you know, we're in, I guess, the entertainment business, right? I mean, it's media, it's news, but it's the entertainment business. And when I see people who have the resources at their disposal to inspire and entertain millions and millions of Americans, and they just completely mess the whole thing up. Like what we're seeing with. And it's not just one movie, right. It's over and over again. But Snow White is the most recent example of it. It's inexcusable to me. It's like, who are these people and why are they so bad at this?

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. And I think part of it is to your point, I love when you pointed out that there's a black female Viking in the Vikings story. Some parts of history are not going to be that diverse, because for large parts of history, there were not Great diversity in many countries, right? Like Japan looked like Japan and the United States in the early days of the United States looked like the United States. Certainly, certainly England did, Sweden did. There is a certain look that the countries had. Right. Most people were culturally looked very similar. And I think one of the reasons they won't do the stories is because they are concerned about who the stars of the stories are. And so if you do Valley Forge, for instance, which would be. Can you imagine that story in the early inception of the United States to tell the story of George Washington holding together the revolution. There's a lot of white guys who are stars, the founding of the country, a lot of white guys involved. Just. I think it's unfortunate for Hollywood in their.

[Joe Getty]

Here's, here's another example. What's the best show or movie about the American Revolution? There are a few. I'm not saying they haven't been done, but when you think about the richness of that period and how much people would love. You have the Patriot with Mel Gibson, which I think would be a lot.

[Buck Sexton]

Of people, which would be 20 years ago at this point. I mean, it's a generation ago now.

[Joe Getty]

Well, see, this is what I was, what I was going to say, and you just came to the same conclusion is everything that you're going to name essentially is from decades ago. So, so somehow technology and, and the money going into the entertainment industry is more than it has ever been. And you know, you have places like Amazon and Netflix that can, they can, they can make shows that are $10 million an episode, which is what they were doing with Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones was. It was like a $10 million an episode series. And they can do that. And somehow they're still turning out trash now, trash after trash. And it's just, it's. It doesn't have to be this way. And it's reflective of broader themes that we talk about in the politics and the culture day in and day out. This is, this is, you know, America should be the motherlode of great stories and ideas and entertainment for the whole rest of the world and specifically for America first and foremost. And we've lost some of that. And I think it's starting to turn and maybe going to come back.

[Buck Sexton]

I don't know if there will be things set up. Next year is the 250th anniversary of America declaring independence and should. That should be 2026, 1776 to 2026. That should be a time to your argument, Buck, where there are a lot of pro America American history stories, are they being made right now? I don't know. You know, because the truth of the matter is there's a multi year lag from hey idea to Inception to, to the taping to the, to the evolution to it reaching the audience. I hope that you are going to see some of those things. I'm very skeptical. And to your point, there's never been more money being spent on content and yet if you think about something that was really well done that has to do with American history. I mean, here's a good question. What was the last really good, well made American history story you mentioned? The Patriot. I think some people would say, okay, the patriot, that was 2004, 2005, probably.

[Joe Getty]

The HBO John Adams series was, was good. But it, you know, we're thinking about from that period. Right, that was good. I don't think Paul Giamatti would have been my first choice, but whatever. He's, you know, people are like, oh, but Giamatti, okay, he's a good actor. I think it was solid, but they.

[Buck Sexton]

Just haven't, I mean there hasn't been anything they're afraid to make. Anything having to do with civil war. Right. Like if it has a Confederate flag in it, you can't even touch it.

[Joe Getty]

Well, I think, I think you're touching on, I think you're touching on this again. I think that, or rather you're going to the next part of our conversation right away, which is I think that they would worry about showing people. I think that there are a lot of those who are in the creative side of things and work at Netflix and work at Amazon. You know, those are, that's really the new movie studio. Just to be clear. It's, it's, it's Apple, it's Amazon, it's Netflix because they can write any check they want for whatever content they want. I think they're worried about showing George Washington in too much of a positive light.

[Buck Sexton]

I agree.

[Joe Getty]

Because he was, because he was a slave owner. I think they definitely worry. I mean, Thomas, with the Confederates. With the conf. Yeah, with the Confederates. If they don't show them as essentially, you know, Nazis in blue and gray uniforms, I think they worry about that. I mean, this is getting into the mindset of the people who think about American history and what they've been taught in school. I do think this starts to become part of it. And that's again symptomatic of broader, of a broader decline of love and respect for this country and its history that has become Far too widespread in the culture.

[Buck Sexton]

And I will say the HBO World War II Band of Brothers, that, that whole universe of movies, I don't know that they would make those. Now that, that, that show. Series. Incredible, right? I mean, that was Band of Brothers.

[Joe Getty]

Not. Not diverse enough. Not diverse enough.

[Buck Sexton]

I don't know if they make it now. I don't know if they would make. I don't know if HBO would make a super pro America story like that because to your point, most of The World War II soldiers were white guys. And there's too much. Too much white guys in that, you know, that maybe they would put. Make George Patton Asian, I don't know. In order to try to have a large. But race doesn't matter. So we're just going to have World War II now played by diverse characters. I question. And if that is true, right, if we are correct, what does it say about our society that we have created that is afraid to celebrate our history because of who that would require them to celebrate?

[Joe Getty]

Look at how far we've come from the statue iconoclasm spasm that we suffered under the BLM riots era. Remember that? Oh, yeah. Well, it started. It started with Confederate statues, and then all of a sudden it was like Gandhi and Churchill and people that actually fought Lincoln. Yeah, yeah. So this is a real. A real thing that is. I think we're in a position now to finally do something. And I think people, the mindset of the American people, the ethos of American culture has gone to a point now where this can finally change. And this is why I brought up. I think this is the first time really it feels this way in 15 years.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. I mean, they tried to redefine the founding of America. And you'll probably hear some of this to the 1619 Project instead of 1776. Right. And anybody who has any sort of historical knowledge at all talked about how ludicrous that was. Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand?

[Jack Armstrong]

We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

[Buck Sexton]

He's Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Joe Getty]

How about something about a comedic tone?

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner.

[Joe Getty]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

Listen to Armstrong, you Getty on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Leon Neyfakh]

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency.

[Jack Armstrong]

Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir?

[Buck Sexton]

No.

[Leon Neyfakh]

It became known as the Iran Contra affair.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I'm not taking any more questions. In just a second, I'm going to ask.

[Leon Neyfakh]

I'm Leon Naifak, co creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast Iran Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today.

[Jack Armstrong]

The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you.

[Joe Getty]

Please do.

[Leon Neyfakh]

To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buck Sexton]

Sunday Sizzle with Clay and Buck. We are joined by Anson Freirex, former president at Anheuser Busch co founder, Strive Asset Management. His new book Last Call for Bud Light the Fall and Future of America's Favorite Beer. And Anson, I appreciate you joining us here. I would submit that the failed Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light deal, the fact that they sent her the Bud Light cans him whatever you want to say right around the March Madness tournament, I believe, two years ago, Bud Light sales, you can update me on them, I believe, are still down 40%. Is this the most destructive ad endorsement product relationship that has ever existed in modern American capitalism? Can you think of a worse one or is this the worst?

[Clay Travis]

I mean, Clay, I think this is the worst one. I mean, maybe you could say that when there was New Coke and New Coke came out in the 1980s and then that plummeted, everybody hated New Coke. The good thing about the Koch executives, they actually learned their lesson. They say, hey, we screwed up, we apologize. And they went back to the old formula. And, you know, Coke's doing fine. But that's one of the big problems here is that this company lost 30% of its sales two years ago. It lost another 10% of its sales last year with Bud Light. It's still declining this year. And one of the reasons is that still no one's taking accountability for this. I mean, the CEO is still there. There's been no apology. And that's why customers really haven't returned here, which is crazy.

[Buck Sexton]

What would you do? Let's pretend that they came to you and they said, okay, Bud Light is your business. You have to in some way make it relevant again for the audience that has abandoned it. Is there anything they could do that would, as you point out, they're continuing to decline down 40%. Is the brand dead no matter what, or is there a way to bring it back to life?

[Clay Travis]

No, I mean, I actually think there's a way to bring this back to life. And I get into this in my, in my book Last Call for Bud Light, which you mentioned about. But I think one of the fundamental problems is, is that this company, Anheuser Busch, it's no longer American owned. It was actually purchased by a European company called InBev about 15 years ago. And then lots of mistakes were made over that time period. The InBev company moved the corporate headquarters from kind of St. Louis to New York City, brought in a lot of foreign executives that really didn't understand the US Consumer. They adopted a lot of device apology policies of ESG and dei. So a lot of those problems happen. I think a lot of those go away if they actually sell Anheuser Busch here in the U.S. back to U.S. citizens. I mean, sell it to Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway, sell it to a consortium of firms like Blackstone and. And Steve Schwarzman's group. Sell it to one of those. I think the first thing they can do, which I think would be good for this European business that hasn't been able to really understand the US and it'd be good for the business here. They could focus more here in the US they could bring in American executives. They could bring back, I don't know, a lot of the commercials that we all love. I think even most importantly is that they could tell their customers that we were sorry, we screwed up. And that was this old regime. We got rid of it, and now we're moving forward with, you know, kind of American regime, American values focused on our customer. We're not going to. We're not going to get involved in any political silliness that we got involved with over the last couple of years. I think that's the first step.

[Buck Sexton]

Why do you think so many brands have ad buyers and marketing people who have no idea who actually consumes their product? Isn't that really kind of the essence of how you make a mistake like this? As you mentioned, you moved from St. Louis to New York City. I knew that Bud Light was in real trouble, and I said this, and it's remained the case. You go around the tailgates now, basically, no guy who throws a tailgate at a football game is buying Bud Light anymore because their buddies are going to make fun of him in the wake of the destruction of the brand. But isn't this emblematic of larger issues, whether it's with Target, whether it's with Disney, whether it's with espn, the NBA. There are just a lot of brands out there that have no idea who their actual consumer is. And as a result, they're completely alienating them.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, Clay, I mean, you're 100% right about that. This is not just an Anheuser Busch problem. Anheuser Busch was the one that was holding the pin when this whole ESG DI bubble pop two years ago. And they were the first time that you saw that millions of consumers ditched a brand that led to billions of dollars of loss of shareholder value. And this for the first time, I think actually was a wake up call to a lot of the broader corporations. I mean, you don't get the big rollback and ESG and DEI that you're seeing right now without the whole Bud Light example where you all sudden this is the least sustainable thing that a company could do was to pander to a group that was nested, wasn't necessarily their customer base, and that they got a brand involved in something that wasn't authentically Bud Light. You know, Bud Light used to be about sports and music and bringing folks together. Never got involved in controversial political issues. They lost sight of that because they had marketing people based in New York and they used marketing based New York firms based in New York City. And then that was like one of the bigger issues that we saw really across corporate America. A lot of these firms that were based in St. Louis or in Arkansas or Texas, all of a sudden they were moving a lot of their headquarters in New York, hiring New York firms, taking in advice from a lot of New York based asset management companies. BlackRock's a good example who is foisting an ESG and DEI agenda on them. And so this led to a lot of problems. And you saw a lot of companies that lost their way over the last couple of years. I'm actually pleased to say that there's companies like Disney that at least making the right steps back in the right direction. They fired their CEO Bob Chapek, they brought back Bob Iger. Bob Iger said, we're getting out of politics. We're not doing it anymore. They've rolled back a lot of their DEI policies in recent weeks. Are they perfect? No. But at least they've acknowledged that there was a problem. I hope we're seeing that more across corporate America. I think Anheuser Bush is just a little bit behind the eight ball on, on getting there.

[Buck Sexton]

A lot of people said, we're talking to Anson Frerics from Bud Light. Former president there. He's got a book out. Last call for Bud Light. Usually people say, oh, this is not going to last. Two years later, basically, we're still dealing with the continued fallout for Bud Light. Do you think they've been stunned by how toxic their brand has become? Do you think they ever expected it to go on this long? Is that why they didn't apologize? They just kept hoping, oh, this is going to go away. Oh, this is going to go away. And in the process, their brand just vanished?

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, I mean, 100%. That's what I thought. Because there really hadn't been a very successful, I'll call it, consumer boycott previous to this. You know, of course, people were upset when in the NFL, people were kneeling in the NFL, but what are you going to do? There's no other alternative on Sundays in the NFL. Yeah, people were upset at Disney when Disney got involved in parental rights issues in Florida. But, you know, if your kids want to go to Disney World, not a lot of alternatives. Bud Light was uniquely susceptible to this massive boycott, really, for two reasons, is that they have a commoditized brand where everywhere there's Bud Light. There's also Miller Light and Coors Light at the exact same price. And then secondarily, people could actually see the impact of this boycott. Every single week, there's sales data from retailers like Walmart and Kroger and 711 that gets reported. So every week, you were seeing in real time, the Bud Light sales were down 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%. And then with the effect of social media, you had everybody that was posting photos and videos online of, like, the Bud Light line at a baseball game empty and a coors light line 30 deep. And so that has just had this big impact on the business that they didn't realize how susceptible they were because for 95% of the American population, they can't tell the difference between Bud Light, Miller Lite, Coors Light. The only thing that differentiates them is their brand. And Bud Light used to be that fun sports music, backyard barbecuing, kind of like Americana brand that you're talking about. All the guys used to drink at tailgates. It was the most acceptable brand of the biggest beer brand. And then when they lost that identity, a sudden it became this almost like, brand, like Ben and Jerry's. Where are they advocating for certain social issues and more progressive causes by getting involved with Dylan Mulvaney and not even being able to articulate to the customer what the brand stands for? Moving forward. I mean, you, you remember that right after this happened, their CEO had multiple botched attempts of trying to talk about Bud Light, never apologize their loyal customer base. That was called Friday out of touch. Nor talk to more progressive customer base and said, you know, hey, we're going to be more like Ben and Jerry's. And I don't know, when you walk in the middle of a cultural battlefield, they ended up getting shot at from both sides.

[Buck Sexton]

No. And I think that's a really important part here about the commoditized brand nature. Chick Fil? A got ripped to the high heavens. And even people out there that are super left wing or like, you know, I might not agree with Chick Fil A on whatever LGBTQI issue there is, but they got a great chicken sandwich, and so I'm going to keep showing up. I love their waffle fries. I'm. I'm not trying to give a free advertisement for Chick Fil A, but I love the brand, and it's hard for me to think of something they could do that would make me change my decision. But to your point, for a lot of people who go into a grocery store or go into a gas station and are going to grab a 12 or a 24 pack of a beer, there isn't a lot of difference between Miller Lite, Bud Light, Coors Light. I know I'm going to get blown up by guys out there. Like, I could tell a tremendous difference. I disagree. Like Guinness, right? You know when you're drinking a Guinness? You know, when you're drinking a certain type of beer that has a different flavor and taste? I think for most people, light beer is relatively easily replaceable. Let me ask you this question, and I think that's an important part about why the boycott works so well. It was an easy change for people to make. Target. Smart guy. I really like him. James Earthmyer, now the attorney General in the state of Florida. One of the first things he's done is file a lawsuit against Target. Going after them for burning up a great deal of shareholder value, he says, by basically going all in with the tuck bathing suits. Everything else, what you do now I think is important, but in some way, is that the effective method to get businesses back to just saying, hey, can you just serve everybody? Democrat, Republican, Independent, you don't need to go after this woke agenda. Is there a lawsuit mechanism in your mind that could be pursued and should be pursued?

[Clay Travis]

I mean, there, there, there is a lawsuit mechanism if you, you know, if you go back, really, the lawsuits that are coming out right now goes back to really the Civil Rights act of 1964 which essentially says that you cannot discriminate based off of race, sex, gender, national origin, et cetera. And a lot of retailers, I mean Target was one of these and in the post George Floyd era that they came out with a lot of essentially racist policies against certain people. They said that you we are going to hire a certain quota of people that look this way. Target was allocating shelf space at their stores based off of race, sex, color. That just doesn't make any sense in the society we're living in. I mean we live in a meritocracy. You should be able to put the products on the shelf that sell. That's the right thing for, for the customer. That's the right thing for your shareholder value as well. I think that's the bigger issue that Target facing is like why are you pushing forward with a certain really social type agenda as opposed to putting what sells? And I think that the bigger issue with Target was, you know, when you walk into a Target store, their most valuable real estate is that first big display area right when you walk in. And when they're putting tuck friendly bathing suits across every single Target across America. Well that's not what the majority of their customer base wants. And that's not good for shareholders, not good for shareholder value. Yes, I think the lawsuits will make sure that they're abiding by sort of the Civil Rights act and making sure that they're not discriminating against people. I think even more importantly, I think that the American consumer has gone to Walmart has gone to other areas and Target stock price has been in the tank over the last year or two since this controversy I think was going to turn around. Is again Target recommitting this fundamental principles of serving their customers, bringing customers back by giving more the products of what they want. I think that's the more effective way to get this thing turned around and consumers again just vote with your wallets. That's the more effective way to get back to serving all customers.

[Buck Sexton]

The book is the Last Call for Bud Light. Anson Freirex, former president Anheuser Busch speaking with us. Last question for you on a positive side. Is every major brand in America now having meetings on a regular basis where they say whatever we do, let's make sure we're not their next Bud Light. Have the American consumer sent a huge and important message to corporate America by not buying Bud Light?

[Clay Travis]

I think they have. And most importantly, I think most brands right now are Having a conversation about just how do you build trust with the consumer? And you do it by being authentic. I mean, you mentioned Chick Fil? A earlier. Like, I know on Sundays, Chick Fil? A is going to be closed. That's like, you know, I can trust that it's going to be closed. And I also know that it's because the family who owns it, I mean, they're like, you know, Seventh Day Adventist. That's their right. They can be closed. They can do what they want to do. They can advocate for policies they want. That's Chick Fil?

[Buck Sexton]

A.

[Clay Travis]

Let Chick Fil? A be Chick Fil? A. That's what makes it unique, interesting, and different. And the same thing with Bud Light. Like, one of the things that was just authentic and true about Bud Light is that it was this funny, bratty, you know, kind of. Kind of inside humor type of brand. Let Bud Light be Bud Light. It didn't need to be Ben and Jerry's by getting involved in every single social issue. And I think that's more the conversation that's being had. That's what my book talks a lot about, is about that authenticity, getting back to trust with brands and building that back in corporate America. And I think that we're starting to see the pendulum swing back. I'm optimistic that it will continue to happen. That'll be good for, I think, American businesses, American shareholder capitalism. I think it'll be better for democracy as well, keeping businesses out of. Out of politics.

[Buck Sexton]

Check it out. Last call for Bud Light. Anson Freirex. Appreciate the time. Have a good weekend.

[Clay Travis]

Thanks, Clay. Have a good one.

[Buck Sexton]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and get on Demand?

[Jack Armstrong]

We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and. And tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

[Buck Sexton]

He's Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Joe Getty]

How about something about a comedic tone?

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner. Yes. Listen to Armstrong. You get it on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.