Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck - Oct 26 2025

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Sunday Hang (October 26, 2025)

Overview

In this Sunday Hang episode, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton offer an engaging blend of personal anecdotes, listener questions, and sharp commentary on current events, culture, and politics. The main focus centers on the consequences of speaking out about controversial topics, specifically the debate around transgender athletes in sports, with a detailed side story on Malcolm Gladwell’s public change of stance. The hosts’ hallmark humor, directness, and camaraderie run through the entire episode.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Couch Nostalgia and Bachelor Life

(03:00–07:46)

• Old Blue and Old Gray: Buck opens with a humorous ode to “Old Blue,” his blue leather couch purchased in 2001 for $400, recently sold for $100 at his wife’s garage sale. Clay shares his own sentimental story about “Old Gray,” an overstuffed couch he had to give away when married.

  • “Old Gray was like a brother to me, man. Old Gray was there for me for years.” – Clay Travis (04:27)

• Both hosts riff on the bachelor apartment tropes: minimalist decor, giant couches, flat-screen TVs, and pizza boxes.

  • “Most guys don’t have the larger construct of the bed. The first thing I bought that I was super proud to buy was a flat screen television.” – Buck Sexton (06:26)

• They joke about the realities of moving, garage sales, and the ‘hidden economy’ from IRS eyes.

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2. Dog Stories & Parenting Parallels

(08:02–11:10)

• Ginger Spice's Training: Buck seeks advice on training his Australian Labradoodle, Ginger Spice, not to jump on people, especially with a baby learning to walk.

• Comedic Grooming Fiasco: He tells the story of bathing Ginger after she rolled in a large pile of animal feces, with Clay joking about Buck choosing a bathing suit instead of showering nude to bathe the dog.

  • “I don’t want dog poop… down there, buddy. So yes, I had to cover up a little bit.” – Clay Travis (09:49)

• Clay draws a parallel between messy dog moments and parenting young children, recounting stories about showering with a sick toddler for practical cleanup.

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3. Viral News Story: The Chick-fil-A Kid

(11:10–14:36)

• Clay and Buck share a heartwarming viral video of a five-year-old boy in Jacksonville who, still in pajamas, walked to Chick-fil-A for breakfast before his parents woke up.
  • Highlights both the innocence of childhood and parental vigilance, relating to personal childhood memories of independence.
  • They discuss fast food favorites, with Buck lauding Chick-fil-A and Clay declaring a preference for Shake Shack (albeit while critiquing its “left-wing politics”).

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4. Cancel Culture, Corporate Pressure and Transgender Sports

(18:37–32:44)

Clay’s FanDuel Experience and Sporting Principles

(18:57–22:32)

• Clay recounts lucrative affiliate deals with FanDuel via Outkick, his media company. After expressing opposition to men competing in women’s sports, FanDuel ended the partnership, costing Outkick $7 million annually.

  • “Me merely saying men should not be able to compete in women’s athletics cost the company I founded…around $7 million a year.” – Clay Travis (21:44)
  • Buck: “You weren’t penalized, Clay, for an opinion. You were penalized for a fact.” (22:32)

• They emphasize the chilling effect corporate sponsors wield over media figures who voice fact-based but controversial opinions.

Malcolm Gladwell’s Change of Heart

(22:44–32:44)

• The hosts play a clip of Malcolm Gladwell (24:34–25:16) admitting he felt “ashamed” for not speaking out against transgender women in female sports, revealing he was “cowed” into silence out of fear for career repercussions:

  • “I share your position 100%. And I was…in a dishonest way. I was objective in a dishonest way.” – Malcolm Gladwell (25:01)

• Buck and Clay credit Gladwell’s honesty but stress it’s only now socially “safe” to dissent. They lay out the pattern of suppression, economic coercion, and the necessity of resisting enforced conformity.

  • “If they can get you to say something that’s crazy, they can get you to say anything.” – Clay Travis (30:26)
  • “America would be far better if we all acknowledge when we get things wrong.” – Buck Sexton (31:10)

• The broader cultural significance is unpacked: enforced narrative conformity degrades individual autonomy and mimics totalitarian tactics.

  • “That is a manufactured delusion, my friend.” – Clay Travis (22:32)
  • “20% of the country is certifiably insane.” – Buck Sexton (29:28)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Clay on Sentimental Couches:
  “Old Gray was like a brother to me, man. Old Gray was there for me for years.” (04:27)

• Buck on Bachelor Living:
  “You walk in…there’s basically a big comfortable couch, a huge flat screen television…maybe a bed…not even with a stand.” (05:06)

• On FanDuel’s Corporate Stance:
  “Me merely saying men should not be able to compete in women’s athletics cost the company…around $7 million a year.” – Clay Travis (21:44)

• On the Power of Truth vs. Conformity:
  “If they can get you to say something that’s that crazy, they can get you to say anything.” – Clay Travis (30:27) “When we claim that we never get anything wrong, it actually delegitimizes the things that we get right.” – Buck Sexton (31:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 03:00–07:46| Couch nostalgia, garage sales, bachelor life humor | | 08:02–11:10| Dog bathing mishap and parenting stories | | 11:10–14:36| The five-year-old Chick-fil-A story; fast food chat | | 18:57–22:32| Clay’s loss of FanDuel partnership over trans sports | | 22:44–25:16| Malcolm Gladwell’s public admission of prior silence | | 25:42–32:44| Cultural commentary on cancel culture & truth |

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Tone and Style

The episode features Clay and Buck’s signature blend of humor, sharp cultural critique, and candid personal reflection. Their rapport, willingness to poke fun at themselves, and unfiltered take on controversial topics make the discussion both highly relatable and thought-provoking.

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Useful For:
Anyone unfamiliar with the full episode will gain not only a clear understanding of the topics covered and the hosts’ perspectives but also the context behind viral stories, the pressure on public figures regarding controversial views, and an honest look at how culture wars play out in both personal and professional spheres.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Sports Announcer]

The NFL International games continue on NFL Network and here our stars come out in the morning. Week 10 Bijon Robinson and the Falcons take on Daniel Jones and the Colts in Berlin.

[Clay Travis]

Fireworks in the fourth quarter.

[Sports Announcer]

Then in week 11, Jaden Daniels and the Commanders touchdown once again. Face Tua and the Dolphins in Madrid. Snooze off. Game on. It's Sunday Morning Football continues November 9th at 9:30 in Eastern only on NFL Network.

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

And Nothing in between. Fuel your [e-mail]. bold, reverent, and occasionally random.

[Clay Travis]

The Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck podcast starts.

[Buck Sexton]

I bought a blue leather couch. All blue.

[Clay Travis]

Wow.

[Buck Sexton]

Amazing couch. Wow. Blue leather, 2001. When I started law school, I went out to rooms to go, I think, and I bought a 400. I remember 400 couch. I was like, this is the most amazing thing. Old Blue. Blue leather couch. I have had it now for 24 years.

[Clay Travis]

Did you really call your couch Old Blue? Because Carrie may. I had a couch that I called Old Gray. It was big and comfy and overstuffed. And Carrie, when we got married, it was like taking Old Yeller out back. I had to, like, put a bullet in Old Gray and take my couch and give it away to, like, you know, one of the giveaway places. Very sad.

[Buck Sexton]

I walked up into my office and Old Blue was gone. There was no discussion about the couch being removed. I don't even know who took it out. I sat down. Literally where I sit.

[Clay Travis]

You don't even get to say goodbye to Old Blue.

[Buck Sexton]

I didn't get safe. Well, oh, Blue was on the front. Oh, Blue was on the front porch. Laura had another garage sale buck over the. Over the weekend. I. My wife, I think if she could be a professional garage sale person, this is like the. The dream of all dreams for her. I. Old Blue was on the front porch. Somebody, I don't know who, bought it. I had that couch for 24 years. $400. 24 years. Great return. And Laura sold it for 100 bucks. She sold Old Blue for a hundred bucks.

[Clay Travis]

Old Gray was like a brother to me, man. Old Gray was there for me for years. You know, it was. That couch was way too big for the apartment. The tiny apartment I had in New York. It was like I had to move everything just to make room for the couch. And you could pretty much touch both, like, walls front and back from it. But, man, that couch, it was. It was always there for me. Rough day at work. Old Gray was there. Old Blue, I bet. Same thing as mine was like a fabric, though. Yours was leather. That's some real man cave stuff.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like. Remember the movie Boiler Room back in the day where those guys were wealthy traders and they underrated.

[Clay Travis]

I think that's an underrated movie. It's a good film.

[Buck Sexton]

They had awesome places. You. Probably some of you women who have dated, you know, guys in their 20s or probably early 30s have been in this situation where you walk in. In the apartment or the House or the condo or whatever is kind of nice, but there's nothing on the walls. There is basically a big comfortable couch, a huge flat screen television, right? And that. And then like maybe a bed on like not even with a stand, but like a big king size bed that.

[Clay Travis]

Kind of maybe some Chinese takeout or pizza boxes in a corner. Not even necessarily stacked just in a corner.

[Buck Sexton]

When Laura started dating me, Buck, she came to the place where I was living, where Old Blue and I were bachelor padding it. And she said, where are your pots and pans? I've been in this place for like a year. So where do you keep your pots and pans? I was like, I don't think I have pots. I don't think I have pots and pans. Not only did I not have them, I had never thought to myself, you know, what I'm really missing here is pots and pans. When she asked, it was. I never even had the thought that I should have pots and pans.

[Clay Travis]

How old were you when you bought your first? Well, so you've been married, so this is different. But I didn't, I didn't buy a headboard for a bed until I think I was like 40 years old. I just had a bed with pillows on it that I slept on. I never had a headboard.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean most guys don't have me. You just have like a big mattress and like something to put the mattress on, some sort of box springs. But even the larger construct of the bed, most guys don't have that. The first thing I bought that I was super proud to buy was a flat screen television. Old Blue was close, but a flat screen television. I really thought I had made it.

[Clay Travis]

This Old Blue and Old Gray would have been good friends. I didn't know this was a, this was a thing, you know. Gerard, Ali's husband, It's kind of a mallusion. Very handsome man. He had a black leather couch that she made him. We're just, we're just finding out they got married and black leather couch got sent, sent to the, the, the glue factory, so to speak.

[Buck Sexton]

I, I hope that couch has a good life from here because I feel like 24 years we made a good, made a good team. And then I just walked into my office. The point is everything is, is getting taken out. Cause we're moving into a new house and I just walk in and things are disappearing. Go get all the [e-mail] before. Who knows where those books end up. You can use code book and just Pour one out for old Blue, if you would. As we finish off the hour. Old Blue and I had disappointed that I missed.

[Clay Travis]

I missed out on the Clay. Clay Travis tag sale. I mean, I feel like I could have gotten some great stuff, some good deals.

[Buck Sexton]

I. Yeah, I think Laura made a dollar 68. I mean, there's no telling, you know, I'm going to be able to buy one half of a state.

[Clay Travis]

Not that the IRS knows about my friend. You know what I'm saying? All cash, baby.

[Buck Sexton]

I got it. I got to be careful. Yeah. 68 $1 bills. So, Lookout World, we had a weekend.

[Clay Travis]

Here Sunday with Clay and Buck. I was just putting this out. Maybe something. Something that some of the dog experts in the audience can tell. Can tell me about, because we're doing some more training with Ginger Spice. We have a. We have a baby. A baby's gonna be walking and just there's new, new things to take into account here. So, like, we can't have her jumping on people. I'm, I'm, of course, very bad about this, Clay. I come home and I'm one of these people who. I love the dog getting all excited and jumping on me, and I'll carry her and she'll wrestle me and we have so much fun. But with a toddler, that's not good because she'll want to do that with a toddler, and she'll knock the toddler down and he can hit his head and that kind of stuff through doing some new training. So I was taking Ginger out for her walk today, and I am always. I'm amazed at just how intuitive this little animal is and how she picks up on my moods and my tone and emotions, everything else. And I was walking today and I was like, she's being such a great little companion. She's a little Australian labradoodle, weighs about 25 pounds. A lot of. You've seen photos of her. I've brought her in, and then out of nowhere, she dove into the biggest pile of poop. I think I have, like, I don't know if it was like a horse or something and just got it all. And I sit there, I'm like, why this animal is so smart? She would never. She would never do that. I don't understand why this happens, Clay. I don't know. Then I'm reminded it is, in fact, an animal that I'm dealing with. It is, in fact, a cave.

[Buck Sexton]

I think the most, the funniest part of this story is you put on a bathing suit and then got in the shower with your dog to clean the poop off of her for like.

[Clay Travis]

Half an hour before the show today. That is what I was doing. I was in there now, scrubbing away.

[Buck Sexton]

Question. Why not fully nude from you? Not to take people into the total nude universe here, but what was the thought process? You didn't want the dog to see you naked? Like, you were modest?

[Clay Travis]

No.

[Buck Sexton]

There was so much bathing suit.

[Clay Travis]

There was so much external refuse on the dog.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, that. I was afraid of your exposure.

[Clay Travis]

I don't want to get not. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I know it's a guy thing, but you don't want dog poop. It's one thing to get on my wrists or my hands. I don't want any dog poop down there, buddy. So, yes, I had to cover up a little bit. I had to cover up a little bit. I'm sorry.

[Buck Sexton]

That's what I was thinking. I was thinking about till then. I was like, is he modest? Is he like, I don't want to be the, you know, nude with the dog?

[Clay Travis]

No, it was.

[Buck Sexton]

I remember it was.

[Clay Travis]

I felt weird because it was so dirty. So I wanted to have a little protection down below because, you know, guys, we all know you got to protect that area. You got to protect. First and foremost.

[Buck Sexton]

I. When. When my youngest got sick once of many times. Right. If you're a parent, and I mean, just threw up all over himself. And my wife was also. My wife was also sick because unfortunately, Buck, as you will learn, when one.

[Clay Travis]

The kid gets sick, everyone gets sick.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, it just runs through the whole family. Every kid gets it. You know, it just does stomach bug, whatever else. And he threw up all over himself. And I was like, I. I mean, I can either, like, try to wash him. And I just got in the shower with him and. And you know, because kids are too young to get in the shower when they're super young, but if you're holding them there. And I was just like, I'm gonna get it. So I was thinking about that when you were talking about the dog. It's just, I'm gonna get it all off at once.

[Clay Travis]

And.

[Buck Sexton]

And so you're just in there and you're just like, anyway, I'm glad that you and the dog have survived, and I'm glad that you managed to keep yourself from getting too, too covered in poop. Really fun show. Encourage all of you subscribe to the podcast. You just heard Dr. Sapphire. We put together a great podcast network. Maybe you Want a variety of different perspectives on health, on family. Whatever you are interested in, there is someone in our podcast network that can expand your audio universe and make it even more enjoyable than it otherwise would be. Sundays with Clay and Buck the full video is [e-mail] but in Jacksonville, Florida, Florida, a five year old boy woke up before his parents did on a, I think it was a weekend and decided that he was going to go get himself breakfast at Chick Fil? A. Walked, still dressed in his bed clothes, down to Chick Fil? A where the police were called, showed up, found the kid, said, hey, where do you live? Where's mom and dad? The whole thing is on the body cam that has been released from the Jacksonville Police Department. They show up at mom and dad's house, they ring the doorbell. Mom and dad have no idea the 5 year old has left the house. And it is quite the funny positive story. It goes to Buck's point about in general, they much more seriously, but they had a shooting in Florida and they tried to say, oh, this was unjustified. Every time it feels like the actual body cam comes out. By and large you see that the police are justified in actually a pretty good job. And this one, much less seriously is a fun story.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, it's up on clanbuck.com you can check out the video there. Clay also shared it. It's gotten millions of views there. I, I just, I, it's, it's funny to me because I feel like I remember one time trying to go to, trying to walk to school when I was way too young to do so. When I was a kid. I think I got one block and turned around. You know, this is a thing that sometimes happens but that this kid actually, this video, if he actually showed up in the Chick Fil A.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes.

[Clay Travis]

Five years old, he's just a little guy showed up in the Chick Fil A. He's very excited to get his chicken sandwich, I suppose. Or does Chick Fil? A do a specific breakfast? I don't know enough about Chick Fil? A, do they?

[Buck Sexton]

Oh yes, they got your great chicken. I mean again, they should really sponsor the show. But they've got a great chicken biscuit. They've got a very specific. They got the hash browns. Circle hash browns. Not like the big ones like McDonald's. Chick fil a is flawless all day long. But yes, they have a specific breakfast offer.

[Clay Travis]

Are they, is that, is it all in your favorite, your favorite fast food chain, Chick?

[Buck Sexton]

Not even a, not even a close second. The number of times I'm driving on a Sunday and I think, man, I'd like to get Chick Fil a and then realize, oh, it's Sunday. They're not, they're. They're closed. Especially after a college football Saturday. Maybe a few drinks the night before. I Chick Fil a is by far my favorite. Do you have a favorite fast food?

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. I mean I can't have gluten obviously, so that makes Chick Fil a a little more complicated. Although I love their grilled nuggets and their waffle fries are phenomenal. So I do eat Chick Fil a. I'm a big F. I know it's going to make me sound like Kami Mamdani Clay, but I'm a Shake Shack guy. Love Shake Shack. Just a little left wing, little left wing politics at the top there, unfortunately.

[Buck Sexton]

Gotta go Chick Fil A.

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[Sports Announcer]

The NFL International games continue on NFL Network and here our stars come out in the morning.

[Buck Sexton]

Let's go.

[Sports Announcer]

Week 10 Bajan Robinson and the Falcons touchdown Atlanta take on Daniel Jones and the Colts in Berlin.

[Clay Travis]

Fireworks in the fourth quarter.

[Sports Announcer]

Then in week 11, Jaden Daniels and the Commanders touchdown once again. Face Tua and the Dolphins in Madrid snooze off. Game on it's Sunday morning football continues November 9th at 9:30 Eastern only on NFL Network.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

A Sunday sizzle with Clay and Buck Malcolm Gladwell, probably I think the most famous nonfiction celebrity author in America. Would you buy into that designation in terms of book sells? I don't know that anybody would have sold more copies than him.

[Clay Travis]

It's him and Michael Lewis probably for our last 20 years or so. Those would be the two that I think are I met him in France, by the way, for the iHeart event. So I actually met Mr. Gladwell for the first. We shook hands. I mean, he wouldn't, you know, he had no idea who I was. I was like, hey man, what's up?

[Buck Sexton]

So, yeah, so I'm gonna play a cut for, for him. I imagine a lot of you have read his books. Tipping Point is probably the most famous, but he's got a ton of different books and I think he has a very popular podcast. So I would bet a huge percentage of you are familiar with who Malcolm Gladwell is. So let me take you behind the scenes a little bit here. I sold my company Outkick to Fox in 2021. On Super Bowl Sunday, 2021, we made $2 million in affiliate revenue for from FanDuel. That is that super bowl day. The company that I ran, we and founded, we were one of the top affiliates in the entire country. So if you were watching Tom Brady, Tampa Bay Buccaneers go up against Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs, our company and to a large extent me, made more money than anybody playing in that game. On sports gambling affiliate referral deals. We were for FanDuel, which is the biggest sports affiliate company, sports gambling company in the country. We were either their best or second best affiliate partner in the country. Pat McAfee, who now is at ESPN, was also wildly profitable for them. We were there to best at helping to promote and I love sports gambling. Obviously we've got a great relationship with prize picks, which ties in here with, with that we made six, seven million dollars a year on that deal. That was important for us as a part of the company. Sold the company. Fanduel said they wouldn't work with me anymore, Buck, because I was too outspoken on the trans sports issue. This is a sports gambling company. They said Clay is too controversial because he is saying men should not be competing in women's sports. And FanDuel. FanDuel is worried about the controversy that he brings for being so outspoken on that issue. As a result, fanduel refused to work with me and as a result, refused to work without kick. So me merely saying men should not be able to compete in women's athletics cost the company that I founded and owned around $7 million a year. I don't know how much money you guys make, but $7 million a year for a media company is a big, huge part of what allows the company to be profitable to employ tons of people. But as a matter of principle, I said I'm not going to stop talking about this. Even though FanDuel is saying, well, you're too controversial for saying this.

[Clay Travis]

This.

[Buck Sexton]

So the reason why I give you that backstory is it was. Even though it's 100% the right thing to say, it took chutzpah. It took sometimes turning away from millions of dollars to say what I personally believe to be true and allow the company to be at the forefront of arguing this as.

[Clay Travis]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Not what you. Not what you personally believe to be true. What is undeniably, unequivocally, obviously, and as clear as anything could be true, which I think is an important. You weren't penalized, Clay, for an opinion. You were penalized for a fact, which is a whole lot. That is Soviet Union level stuff. That is everyone who's starving say the grain harvest is the biggest grain harvest of all time. That is a manufactured delusion, my friend.

[Buck Sexton]

And if you wonder why did people not step up against this across all of sports, only outkick and really only me at the, at the forefront of this were willing to make this argument? It's because the big advertising partners out there would grab you by the you know what, and they would squeeze if you tried to step out of line. This is the truth. Nobody else will even tell you this. I'm telling you directly. Okay, Malcolm Gladwell came out. They have a big sports conference, sports analytics conference at mit and they had a bunch of famous. Malcolm Gladwell has a connection to sports. He's a big sports fan. He's done sports related reporting and stories. And he and everybody else on that panel at the, I think it's the Sloan Kettering, MIT Institute or whatever, refused to speak out against men competing in women's sports because the consequences were real. What I just told you, it could cost your company millions of dollars. It could cost you personally millions of dollars. It could impact your employability. They were very targeted in the way that they attacked here. And now he's come out. This just happened yesterday. And Malcolm Gladwell says, hey, I was bullied, I was cowed, I was afraid of the consequences. And now I'm going to tell you the truth. Men shouldn't be able to compete in women's sports.

[SpinQuest Representative]

Listen, if we did a replay of that exact panel at the Sloan conference this coming march, it runs in exactly the opposite direction. And it would be, I suspect, near unanimity in the room that trans athletes have no place in. In the female category. I don't think this is any question. I just think it was a strange, I mean, I felt, I mean, the reason I'm ashamed of my performance of that panel because I share your position a hundred percent. And I was count the idea of saying anything on this issue. I was in a, I believe in retrospect, in a dishonest way. I was, I was objective in a dishonest way.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, I give him credit for coming out and being honest about this. I think this is so incredibly important because there are consequences, unfortunately, when you are willing to speak the truth. I think your qualification is important there. This is not, this is not me arguing what the tax rate in Moldova should be. And we're sitting around and we're like, well, you know, this is, this is.

[Clay Travis]

Dudes are not chicks and chicks are not dudes. And pretending they are is a lie. That is what this is.

[Buck Sexton]

Even in the world of sports, it's beyond that buck. Because you're saying men don't have a competitive advantage or you're sitting around, you're saying, well, we have to do studies. No, men are bigger, stronger and faster than women. We don't see.

[Clay Travis]

Speaker 2. But underlying all of it, underlying all of it, and this has to be remembered, is that trans, for example, and this is usually what we're talking about in the sports context, trans women are women indistinguishable and to be treated by society and the law as women indistinguishable from women in all respects, even though they're not women. That is the actual foundational, mandatory belief of the trans movement, right. Is that they translate, what is the phrase, trans women are women. Yeah, this is, this is what they say, trans women are women and that's why they should be able to play in women's sports. That is a lie.

[Buck Sexton]

I think this is important though, and I see this everywhere. And people who may not be involved in media, a lot of you sit around, you say, well, how did this happen? It was. If you were willing to speak out on this issue, advertisers said, I can't, I won't work with this person anymore. And I'm talking about a friggin sports gambling company. You think that it's a coincidence that, that they're of, of all companies that should be one that recognized, hey, men and women's sports is ridiculous. They actually pushed back and they said, even though you, Clay, and your company have made us tens of millions of dollars, which we had objective reality, you could look at and say, hey, people love this. They wouldn't spend money with us anymore. Anymore. And this is how they control what people say. Because most people Are not willing to give up the money. They just pretend this story didn't exist. It wasn't that everybody was as outspoken as Gladwell is saying there. It was just that a lot of companies just pretended this didn't happen or they would say, as they still say now. I don't know why you care about that. Why do you even care? It doesn't happen that often. It's not that big of a story.

[Clay Travis]

Well, this is always. This is always the progression.

[Buck Sexton]

Right?

[Clay Travis]

It's not happening. Happening. It's not happening that much. Why do you care? Ok, it's happening. It's happening a little bit to. It's good. It's happening. Shut your face. We're in charge now. And this is. This is. This was Covid. This is trans. This is. That is the. The slippery slope of leftism in America today. It has progressivism. It has to progress. The argument always has to go to the next level. And it's all based on lies because of course it is happening. Because they know what's happening and they know it's wrong and they know they want to do more of it. But they use an incrementalist strategy to chip away at things. And for Gladwell to come out now, Clay.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

Because everything has changed now. Now you can say it.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

Now you can actually just say people.

[Buck Sexton]

Like me spoke out so hard and took the slings and arrows. I will say, Buck, I give him some credit for acknowledging he was wrong. Because what a lot of people are going to do is they're going to wait another couple of years and they're going to come, they're going to say, well, everybody knew this was ridiculous all along and pretend that they never actually argued otherwise.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. I mean, that's particularly gross. Right. But that will happen. I think that that is true.

[Buck Sexton]

Five years from now, there will not be a single man in America who will say, I ever thought it was okay.

[Clay Travis]

Oh, no, no.

[Buck Sexton]

Men pretending to be women were competing.

[Clay Travis]

I disagree with that. There will be people, Clay. There are people that will take this to the very end. And they think that they can get a rebound with this in time. All they have to do, they think that they will find their way back into power, back into the culture. 20% of the country is never going to abandon this, Clay. 20% of the country is certifiably insane. I mean, they think that Kamala Harris was a good candidate and Joe Biden's brain was working. These people are nuts.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I say this. I mean, people who are actual sports fans, right. Because I understand on some level, if you stay, if you don't know anything about sports and you think like, hey, maybe Serena Williams is better than Roger Federer at tennis, maybe they should play and maybe the woman would win, um, I actually give them a pass because they're so clueless on the difference of biology. But any man, I. I mean this honestly, any man who has ever played a high school, college, and certainly a pro sport knows that the idea of men being able to compete in women's sports was, on its face, laughably absurd. And where it matters is if they can get you to argue that or if they can get you to stay silent on that, they can keep advancing the left wing agenda because they've cowed you into silence.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, well. And you've basically become complicit in your own cowardice and your own silencing. And if they can get you to say something that's that crazy, they can get you to say anything. That's the whole point. If they can get you to believe this, they can get you to believe that the sky is purple and the earth is flat and you name it. And that's a very powerful tool of psychological manipulation because it's degrading when the state or when society forces you to mouth a lie, to say the slogans that they demand that you know are false, it degrades you psychologically. And that's the point. They do this in all totalitarian regimes, by the way, and they do it purposefully.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. And let me say this, too. I think the one thing I will say additionally in favor of Gladwell is this. I think America would be far better if we all acknowledge when we get things wrong. I don't think that anybody out there listening expects for you or me to get everything right. I think when we claim that we never get anything wrong, it actually delegitimizes the things that we get right. And I do think Malcolm Gladwell coming out and saying, yes, it's convenient now, yes, the consequences and the stakes and the punishment for being on the quote, unquote, wrong side of the ledger on this issue are much de minimized because we won this battle so far. But I do think being willing to acknowledge we've said it like I said it was going to be a red tsunami in 2022. Didn't get it. I had to wear it. Like I was wrong. Now, we got a lot right about the 2024 election, but I don't think people out there trusted us less because you got something wrong. Because everybody gets things wrong.

[Clay Travis]

Well, that's a prediction, too. Yeah, there's a difference between a prediction which is inherently uncertain and telling a lie. Yes, one. One goes to analysis and nobody's perfect. Another goes to your selling out. And a lot of people, I will.

[Buck Sexton]

Tell you, almost everyone sold out.

[Clay Travis]

I won't name them because I don't. I don't. People can always, even people on the other side, if they ask to speak to me in confidence, I keep, I keep confidence. I know some prominent Democrats in the media, Clay, who would say to me offline, oh, the trans thing is crazy, but the agenda is crazy. But I can't, I can't say it because my side would eat me alive.

[Sports Announcer]

The NFL International games continue on NFL Network, and here our stars come out in the morning. Week 10, Bajan Robinson and the Falcons take on Daniel Jones and the Colts in Berlin.

[Clay Travis]

Fireworks in the fourth quarter.

[Sports Announcer]

Then in week 11, Jaden Daniels and the Commanders face Tua and the Dolphins in Madrid. Snooze off. Game on it's Sunday morning football continues November 9th at 9:30 Eastern only on NFL Network.

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Podcast Announcer]

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[Buck Sexton]

When I told people I was making a podcast about Benghazi, 9 times out of 10 they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked why Benghazi?

[Clay Travis]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Buck Sexton]

From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Podcast Announcer]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Buck Sexton]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.