Team 47 - Trump Calls Out Subsidizing Fraud

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Team 47 – Trump Calls Out Subsidizing Fraud
Date: January 18, 2026
Host: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton (iHeartPodcasts)
Main Guests: Donald Trump (audio clips), Brooke Rollins (Secretary of Agriculture), Ryan Gardusky (Data Analyst/Podcaster)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show delivers a sweeping discussion on health care subsidies and fraud, Trump-era policy shifts, the food pyramid overhaul, inflation in agriculture, and the seismic impact of immigration and census math on American politics. With humor and candid exchanges, the hosts investigate how entrenched government and corporate interests shape rural health care, food policy, and voting power, while shining a light on the underpublicized fraud in federal programs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump on Rural Healthcare and Obamacare Subsidy Fraud

• Trump’s Criticism of Obamacare ([03:33])
  • Rural hospitals devastated by rising health care costs.
  • Only 7% of Medicaid spending reaches rural hospitals; the rest goes to cities and insurance companies.
  • "[Obamacare] was a bill to make insurance companies wealthy. And they did. ... We're going to have that money spent to the people and given to the people, ... circumvent the insurance companies."
• Hosts’ Analysis of Obamacare Enrollment and Subsidies ([04:19]–[06:12])
  • Many enrollees never use benefits; health insurers get paid for non-users.
  • Fraud rampant: Companies profit from unnecessary enrollments.
  • Clay: "A lot of the people in Obamacare never use Obamacare at all, Buck. They don't pay even $5. So the health care companies are getting paid to cover people who either don't need the coverage or don't even know that they have it." ([05:00])
  • It's an elaborate system of subsidies and corporate incentives, not genuine insurance.

2. The Rural Healthcare Funding Shift

• Trump on New Funding for Rural Health ([10:27])
  • $50 billion increased funding for rural healthcare over five years.
  • "We increased funding for rural health care by an unprecedented record setting $50 billion... which will benefit Americans in all 50 states."
  • Clay emphasizes the political and practical importance: “Rural tends to mean red in this country.” ([10:18])

3. The Pervasiveness of Federal Fraud

• Quantifying the Problem ([08:16]–[08:23])
  • Guest Scott Bessen (referenced) and Elon Musk echo: 10% of the U.S. budget—$600–$800 billion—is lost to fraud.
  • Health care and state subsidy programs are the major sources.
  • "We could probably increase GDP by a substantial margin if we just reallocated those resources outside of the fraud category." (Clay, [08:23])

4. Changing the Food Pyramid – “Make America Healthy Again”

• Brooke Rollins (Secretary of Agriculture) on the New Dietary Guidelines ([18:49])
  • Recent overhaul: Pyramid now emphasizes real foods—protein, butter, whole milk, fruits, vegetables.
  • "We have a massive chronic disease crisis ... 40 cents of every American tax dollar goes to treating chronic disease, most of which is tied to poor diet." ([19:49])
• Policy for SNAP Retailers
  • Now required to double healthy food offerings if they accept SNAP, making “real food” more accessible.
  • The shift aims to improve national health, support U.S. farmers, and reduce medical costs.

5. Agriculture Inflation and Cost of Living

• Impact of Biden Administration Policies ([21:19]–[24:19])
  • Rollins details inflation: agriculture labor up 47%, fuel up 32%, interest rates up 73%.
  • Biden-era food stamps (SNAP) up 40%, fueling inflation further.
  • Early Trump 2.0 administration claims some cost indicators are dropping, with more improvement expected.
• Long-term View:
  • Aligning school lunches and nutritional programs with new guidelines incentivizes local food sourcing—"a golden age" for U.S. farmers is predicted.

6. Demographic Shifts and Political Power

• Ryan Gardusky on Census, Immigration, and Electoral College ([36:32]–[47:54])
  • Mass exodus of Americans from blue states, replaced (to varying extents) by immigrants—insufficient to stop seat loss.
  • Projected seat and electoral vote losses for NY, CA, IL, MN, RI; gains for red states like FL, TX, AZ. Impact: Increased difficulty for Democrats to win the presidency post-2028.
  • The inclusion of illegal immigrants in House district apportionment gives blue states extra seats and shifts political power.
  • Gardusky: "The threshold for Maxine Waters ... is much, much lower [to win], because so many are ineligible to vote because they are foreign born residents." ([44:41])
  • If illegal immigrants were not counted in the census, Democrats could lose as many as a dozen House seats.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Clay Travis on Obamacare Fraud:
  "Does that sound like a good system to you? It's waste with fraud." ([05:11])

• Donald Trump on Rural Funding:
  "We increased funding for rural health care by an unprecedented record setting $50 billion over five years, which will benefit Americans in all 50 states." ([10:27])

• Brooke Rollins on the Food Pyramid Shakeup:
  "We flipped the pyramid to your point, and instead of focusing on ... carbohydrates and breads ... we flipped it to eat real food, protein, butter, whole milk, fruits, vegetables. That ... will fundamentally transform our nation." ([19:07])

• On Health and Security:
  "We have a national security issue in this country when three out of four young adults, 75% ... cannot pass our military readiness test." —Rollins ([25:57])

• Ryan Gardusky on Congressional Representation:
  "If you look at a regular district in Ohio, a Republican has to get a quarter of a million votes to win. ... The threshold for ... Democrats in these big blue states is much, much lower..." ([44:41])

• Lighthearted College Football Exchange:
  "Buck. Other than fighting for America, there is no greater pastime than college football, period. Full stop. No arguments, no question." —Brooke Rollins ([29:40])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

| Time | Segment/Topic | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 02:54 | Opening: Rural health care roundtable, Obamacare fraud | | 03:33 | Trump audio: Medicaid spending, rural hospitals | | 06:12 | Insurance subsidies, fraud, and Medicaid waste | | 08:16 | Extent of federal fraud, impact on GDP | | 10:27 | Trump: Rural health care funding increase | | 18:49 | Brooke Rollins: New Food Pyramid and health policy | | 21:19 | Rollins on agriculture inflation, SNAP, and Biden era | | 36:32 | Ryan Gardusky: Blue state exodus, census math | | 44:41 | Effect of counting illegals in the census; seat loss | | 47:54 | Political power, decade-long impact |

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Tone and Style

The conversation is energetic, direct, and colored by skepticism of government efficacy and progressive policy. The hosts mix humor, data, and pointed critique, giving voice both to political grievances and hopes for reform.

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Summary Takeaways

• The Trump team argues that rural America suffered under Obamacare due to subsidy allocation favoring urban and corporate interests—massive fraud and waste prevail in current systems.
• New funding and policy adjustments aim to redirect resources toward rural health and reform SNAP to encourage real food consumption, potentially benefiting both the nation’s health and U.S. farmers.
• The U.S. is facing a crisis in chronic disease, much of it preventable through dietary change and better food policy.
• Blue states are losing population and therefore political power; counting illegal immigrants in the census artificially props up their representation.
• Addressing fraud and changing demographic trends could redefine the balance of power in Congress and the Electoral College for years to come.
• Lighter moments touch on college football rivalries, bringing much-needed levity to complex topics.

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Transcript

[Clay Travis]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human Sometimes we all need to slow down and reconnect with what matters most. Life can feel overwhelming, but encouragement and guidance are closer than you think. At InTouch.org, you'll find biblical teaching, daily devotionals and timeless sermons from Dr. Charles Stanley. These resources are designed to strengthen your faith, renew your hope and give you confidence for life. If you're seeking peace, strength, or simply a reminder of God's presence, visit intouch.org today. You'll be glad you did. As a consumer, you decide which companies succeed with your purchasing power. PureTalk wants to say a heartfelt thank you for choosing them. Because of you, PureTalk had a record breaking year. You've helped them donate over half a million dollars to America's Warrior Partnership to help prevent veteran suicide. You also help provide 1000 hand sewn made in America flags to veterans. And you're supporting US jobs by choosing a proudly American company from the PureTalk family. Thank you for your trust and God Bless America. Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. That's software overload. Odoo is the all in one platform that replaces them all. CRM, accounting, inventory, E Commerce, hr. Fully integrated, easy to use and built to grow with your business. Thousands have already made the switch. Why not you try Odoo for free at odoo?

[Buck Sexton]

That's odoo.com support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and let you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis Tool output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures the.

[Clay Travis]

Team 47 podcast is sponsored by Good.

Ranchers Making the American Farm strong again.

Team 47 with Clay and Buck starts.

Now talking this morning at this rural health roundtable. Why does this matter? Well, healthcare matters to all of us. The cost is outrageous. The system is a mess. The government intervention in this has been nothing but disastrous. They've made it worse. Obamacare made it worse across the board and specifically rural areas have gotten the short end of the stick on this one. Trump was talking about Obamacare. This is cut to specifically and how Medicaid spending, for example. It's pretty much all just going into the cities, the population centers and a lot of Democrat votes there play to.

[Donald Trump]

Rural hospitals and communities were devastated by soaring cost. And that continues despite colossal increases in government spending since Obamacare was passed. Only 7% of the annual Medicaid spending on rural hospitals has gone to rural hospitals. So there's only a very little. They didn't care. Obama didn't care about the rural community. To be totally blunt, what he did care about is insurance companies. And this was a bill to make insurance companies wealthy. And they did. They made insurance companies very wealthy. I would say they don't like me too much because they spent hundreds of billions of dollars. And we're going to have that money spent to the people and given to the people, not we're going to circumvent the insurance companies.

[Clay Travis]

Clay, he recognizes that if you're talking affordability, the single place where I think people are finding the most pain over the longest period of time is their health care costs are just outrageous.

Yes. And Obamacare is a failure. So by the way, is the argument that if we stopped some of these subsidies for Obamacare that remember when, I mean, this was a big topic of discussion. I do think it's important to come back sometimes when these awful predictions don't come true and say, hey, remember when we were all told, I think that The Democrats said 7 million people would lose health insurance if the subsidies were dialed back for Obamacare. And open enrollment has basically ended and there's about a million less people enrolled in Obamacare than were before. You might say, okay, well, a million is still a decent number. And okay, but what seems to be happening, Buck, is, and this is why Democrats, the fraud is so rampant in all this health care. A lot of people are getting signed up for Obamacare, potentially millions of them. And the health care companies are Getting subsidies and the health care is not being used at all. So this is real, and I understand a lot of people out there. It gets into the nitty gritty. We don't talk about it that much. A lot of people that have Obamacare now, it appears when they basically have to enroll and have to get themselves enrolled, the health care companies are incentivized to sign up as many people as possible so they can take advantage of these subsidies. A lot of the people in Obamacare never use Obamacare at all, Buck. They don't pay even $5. So the health care companies are getting paid to cover people who either don't need the coverage or don't even know that they have it. Does that sound like a good system to you? It's waste with fraud.

It's also not insurance, which we all know from. Do I pay more for wind insurance here in Miami where we have hurricanes than people will who, you know, live in? I don't know. Is Tennessee wind insurance a big thing, Clay? Probably not.

We have tornadoes.

Oh, sorry, Tornadoes. Okay. Well, other. Probably.

Probably. I would say Vermont. There's not a ton of wind insurance. I don't think they have very many tornadoes. Hurricanes typically not hitting Vermont. I would bet maybe you guys are going to blow me up and tell me I'm wrong. I would bet that there's not a lot of concern about wind damage in Vermont.

You know, I have a whole plan that we need to just make Vermont red. Right? It's not hard. We could.

We could get it very easily.

Tennessee could lend us enough Republicans easily to colonize Vermont. I love Vermont as a state. It's beautiful. I used to go to camp there in the summers. Uh, I highly, highly recommend it to any of you if you can get there, but it's Bernie Sandersville. I mean, the. The politics there are. It's pure Commie. It's beautiful place, anyway. Well, I'll talk about my Vermont planet. I got Greenland, I got takeover. Vermont for the Republicans. I got a lot of things going on here. But back to the. The healthcare thing, Clay, we don't. It's not actually insurance because the whole system is set up so that people who are young and healthy are paying for people who are old and sick. It's a transfer of wealth. It's a program of incredibly complicated subsidies where the corporations also, because of the way these Obamacare is written and the way a lot of these bills are written up, the corporations, the companies, the health care providers are incentivized to deny a lot of claims for people, they're incentivized to make sure that they're making a profit as an administrator of healthcare, but they don't actually provide healthcare. This is what people don't understand why we have this whole system with so much fraud and waste in it. Medicaid fraud annually, Clay, I think they estimate, is like $80 billion.

Well, did you see we talked about this with Scott Bessen. He came on and echoed Elon Musk.

Well, he said 10% of the entire.

U.S. budget is fraud. Yes. 600 to $800 billion, depending on how you define it, is fraud. And he said we could probably increase GDP by a substantial margin if we just reallocated those resources outside of the fraud category. And so, yeah, a huge part of the fraud comes from health care. And obviously we're seeing a huge part of the fraud comes from any number of federal programs which subsidize state fraud. Like, what really started this whole Minneapolis mess was the degree of fraud going on in their daycare system, which led to President Trump's decision to surge resources there for ICE to go after all of the fraud that's taking place in that community. We should mention this, too. We're talking to Ryan Gardusky next hour. He has pointed out something that's very significant about this, and we should have talked about it. Smart. Credit to him for thinking of it. The amount of deportations that are occurring is potentially going to alter to a substantial degree the 2030 census. Because, remember, for purposes of House of Representatives representation, illegal immigrants are counted in the census. Roughly 720,000 citizens in each district in the United States, 435 districts, they count illegal immigrants. This gives Democrats a plus 10 or so benefit, at least in the House. And we're talking about the entire House of Representatives being decided by a couple of seats. So starting in 2030, that advantage is going to vanish. This is one of the big impacts why Democrats are fighting so hard. Their rigged system is collapsing around them, and they're seeing it happen.

Trump also saying here they've increased funding for rural health care. So, you know, rural tends to mean red in this country. This is cut one. Listen to what the man has to say.

[Donald Trump]

As part of the great big beautiful bill, we're increased and we have increased funding for the health care by an unprecedented $50 billion. That's rural health care. Nobody thought that was going to happen, and we got it done. So we have rural health care for those that were trying to make a case that we weren't taking care of the rural Community. I'm all about the rural community. We won the rural communities by numbers that nobody's ever won them before. And we're taking care of those great people. So we already did this. We increased funding for rural health care by an unprecedented record setting $50 billion over five years, which will benefit Americans in all 50 states.

[Clay Travis]

It's a big deal.

Clay, Wall Street Journal I just mentioned this and again, I understand a lot of you don't necessarily get into the weeds of health care policy, but basically the shutdown happened because Democrats said this is going to be an unmitigated disaster if we don't continue subsidies for Obamacare. So open enrollment ended Thursday, that is yesterday. According to the Wall Street Journal, we have about 1.4 million fewer people who signed up compared to the 2025 number. Okay? The Urban Institute said that it would drop by 7.3 million. The congressional Business Budget Office presumed huge drops in the number of people that would drop out. And so the decline, according to the Trump administration, happened because they crack down on fraud. And the paragon, this guy Brian Blaise says that about 12 million Obamacare enrollees have no medical claims suggesting they may have been enrolled in plans without their knowledge. Fraud may also explain why enrollment hasn't fallen more. Think about that, Buck. If you have 24 million people signed up for Obamacare, doesn't it seem crazy that half of those people would have no health care claims whatsoever?

Yes, in a year it does.

I mean, think about whatever you do for health care. I bet almost everybody out there listening to us at least spent a dollar with health care. All Republicans are saying is in order to be automatically enrolled, we think you should have to spend $5 on health care every year. I think what's happened here with Obamacare, Buck, is it is a huge fraud laced program and health care companies are getting free rides because they're signing up people left and right. They're cashing all these subsidy checks without actually covering people. This doesn't make sense that 12 million people would not have a single health care claim on Obamacare if it were so integral to overall health care in America, Right? Sometimes the math just doesn't add up. Again, these are data from the Wall Street Journal.

The more they dig into this, the more you're going to see what a mess the whole thing is. And this has been said all along. I'll just point out those of us who were ringing the alarm bell about Obamacare a decade and a half ago. Basically, basically, whatever, 13 years ago. It's all true. Everything we've said is true. Your healthcare has just gotten more expensive. Access has gotten worse. There's more government spending involved. So you're paying for more with your taxes, you're paying for more with your premiums, you're getting worse care, you're having longer waits. All of it gets worse so that illegals can be covered. I mean, let's really get into this so that health care companies can not the place, not, not the people that are actually like fixing you. The places that determine who gets to fix you so that their profits are nice and fat. So that hospital systems can become these massive private equity owned, you know, profit centers. Oh, there's so much here. There's so much here. Sometimes we all need to slow down and reconnect with what really matters most. Life moves quickly and between responsibilities, stress and distractions, it's easy to lose sight of the things that bring true meaning. That's where intouch.org comes in. It's a place filled with biblical teaching, devotionals and encouragement that speaks directly to your heart. Dr. Charles Stanley's sermons are timeless, offering wisdom that applies to everyday challenges as well as the deeper questions of faith. The resources there are designed to help you live with confidence, strengthen your relationship with God, and experience his presence in a practical way. On the site, you'll find daily devotionals to keep you grounded, articles that inspire reflection, and tools that guide you toward a life of peace and purpose. Whether you're searching for hope, strength, or simply a reminder that you're not alone, intouch.org is there for you. Make it part of your routine visit today and discover the peace, guidance and encouragement you've been looking for. A new year means new financial goals, like making sure your savings are secure and diversified. Will this be the year you finally talk to someone from Birch Gold Group like I have? Honestly, they're great people. They're very helpful. I've purchased gold from Birch Gold. I appreciate their educational approach and their understanding of macroeconomics. There are forces pushing the dollar lower and gold higher, which is why they believe every American should own some physical gold until January 30th. If you're a first time gold buyer, Birch Gold is offering a rebate of up to $10,000 on qualifying purchases. To claim eligibility and start the process, just text my Name Buck to 9898 98. Birch Gold can help you roll an existing IRA or 401K into an IRA in gold and you're still eligible for a rebate of up to $10,000. Make right now your first time to buy gold. Take advantage of this rebate. But you gotta do it by January 30th. Text my name Buck to 989-898. Claim your eligibility today. Birch Gold Group.

[Buck Sexton]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated ass. Allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com, and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra, SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures nothing.

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

You're listening to Team 47 with clay and Buck.

Brooke Rollins joins us. She is the Secretary of Agriculture. Secretary Rollins, welcome to the program.

[Brooke Rollins]

Well, I think this is my first time, guys. It's really fun to be on with y'.

[Clay Travis]

All.

[Brooke Rollins]

Thank you.

[Clay Travis]

We are very, very pleased and honored to have you. Something we have a lot to talk to you about actually. But one thing that, that sticks out right away because I even remember being a kid and looking at the food pyramid and thinking to myself, 12 servings of grain a day. That seems like that seems like a lot of Cheerios and a lot of a lot of bread. It turns out it was not a good idea and now we have a different, finally, a different food pyramid. Speak to us about the Maha movement and how you're involved in it.

[Brooke Rollins]

Well, yeah, I tell you, it's been an amazing two weeks here in Washington. Who knew if you had told me a year ago that as I was becoming the Secretary of Agriculture, and very proud to do that, one of the biggest agencies, but supporting rural America, our farmers and ranchers, that a man by the name of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Bobby, whom I had never even met before, that A, he would become one of my best friends, B, he would also become my key partner in making America healthy again. Or maybe I should say I would become his key partner in making America healthy again. And C, we would have the opportunity under President Trump's leadership, to completely change the trajectory of American health and the American way of life. And I think that's. I think that's how big this is. Last week, we announced the new dietary guidelines. We flipped the pyramid to your point, and instead of focusing on, you know, carbohydrates and breads and that being the most important thing, we flipped it to eat real food, protein, butter, whole milk, fruits, vegetables. That this will fundamentally transform our nation. The final thing I'll say on that is we have a massive chronic disease crisis in this country. 40 cents of every American tax dollar goes to treating chronic disease, most of which is tied to poor diet, lack of exercise, which leads to a pre. Diabetic, diabetic, obese population. So there's so much we can do, so much we can talk about, but it's been a big couple of weeks.

[Clay Travis]

We're talking with Brooke Rollins, Secretary of Agriculture. She manages also to be a Texas A and M Aggie and a Texas Longhorn alum. We will ask about that. Be sure. Yeah, be sure. That's coming. I'm just going to give you a preview that that is coming. So let me ask you this. The number one thing that a lot of people are focused on is cost of groceries, right? You hear it, we hear it. Everybody out there feels that, unfortunately, because of the Biden era, everything went up in a massive degree in a very short period of time. What can we do to produce more American agriculture right here in the good old usa, particularly when it comes to beef and help to drive down prices? What do you expect we will start to see throughout 2026 as it pertains to that issue?

[Brooke Rollins]

Yeah, it's such a great, great question, Clay. And here's what I'll say. I. I was in the first Trump administration. I ran the Domestic Policy Council, so I was in charge of the President's entire domestic agenda in Trump 1. I knew that what was going to happen when Joe Biden was sworn in in January of 2021, that prices would skyrocket. The open, we would be more in more foreign entanglements. I mean, we just, we just knew it was not an America first approach to governing. What I didn't realize, and I probably should have, was just how bad things would be and realizing that when I came back around, obviously to serve in the President's Cabinet In Trump 2.0, to your point, the cumulative inflation over four years of Biden was over 23%. This is astounding. But when you look at the sort of the foundation of that, all of the spending, I mean, I took over a department that manages food stamps. The SNAP program, it increased 40% under Joe Biden. We saw the spending out of control at every single level of government. We saw the borders open. There is no doubt that, you know, and I was an agriculture major, but even me, my ag major degree, would tell you that you spend more money, you take more tax dollars, you're going to create inflationary, everything's going to go up. But we've already seen things start to come way down, whether it's fuel in the ag, the agriculture sector under Biden, labor went up 47%, fuel went up 32%, interest rates went up 73%. So that driver of inputs, while there were no new trade deals, basically meant that our farmers are struggling, our food is increasing. It's just been a complete disaster. But all of that has already begun to come down. We've already seen inflation come down, wages go up, mortgages come down, fuel come down. But we've got a lot more work to do. I'll say this kind of in closing, and I think this is what's probably for me the most exciting thing about what's happened under Trump two year one, not only are prices coming down, but as we release this new dietary guideline and we talk about eating real food and stop eating packaged, ultra processed food, it isn't just a health question and it isn't just a taxpayer question, although certainly those are two very important pieces. But it's also to your point, Clay, a farmer question, an American farmer question. As we begin to move the American diet back toward eating real food as the farmer $400 million a day, a day, y', all that USDA spends on nutrition programs, school lunches, SNAP, et cetera, we begin to recalibrate that toward better, healthier, more locally produced food, not only again the American child, the American will prosper not only to taxpayers better protected. We're not spending as much money on the backside of that, but our American farmers, for the first time in perhaps Any of our lifetime will begin to move into a golden age as we open up that aperture. So that's really what we're looking at, and that's why this is just so important.

[Clay Travis]

And we're speaking to Secretary Brooke Rollins, Secretary of Agriculture and Secretary to that. To that end, I have to say, because I've been going through my own health journey in the last couple of years, changing up eating patterns and everything else. I firmly believe that what you are doing with the partner vag is doing with the. With both on the education side, but also the provision of just the real food is the easiest way to put it. Real food in schools, real food on people's plates at home. The health benefits of this, you know, we're a country that has far too many chronically sick people. The health benefits of what you're talking about, I think are massive and fiscally significant. Over the long term, this is going.

[Brooke Rollins]

To save the American taxpayer hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions dollars. I'm from Texas. I did Texas policy before I got to the first Trump White House. In Texas, we spend 40 to 50% of our state budget on Medicaid, Medicare and health care. I mean, you think about every dollar that's put into the system, whole swathes of Texas, you have the diabetes, the obesity, et cetera. And at the same time, you look and you see that 70% of what the average American eats comes out of a package. It's a processed something or other. And so that is, we have to work to change. Now, I think an important piece of this is, well, you think about those from our most vulnerable communities, right? Those who are living on the margins of society. They can't run to their H E B or their Kroger or their central market and buy the latest fresh chicken on sale, the latest fresh organic chicken. They're using the SNAP program, But there are 250,000 retailers in America that take SNAP dollars. We probably have time today and come on another time and talk about the fraud in the SNAP program, but I won't even focus on that today. But what I will say with those 250,000 retailers that we are now requiring them to stock twice as much. If they're going to take a SNAP dollar, they have to stock twice as much. Double their offerings of food that comes off this new food pyramid. Healthy, real food. Frozen is fine. Canned is okay. Fresh is obviously great. But we've got to make sure that these populations have that access. And to your point, we will begin to again see a complete transformation. We have A national security issue in this country when three out of four young adults, 75% of American young adults cannot pass our military readiness test. So this is. This is a massive, massive issue for the continuation of the American dream. And that's, I think, again, how important this is.

[Clay Travis]

We're talking to Secretary of Agriculture Brooker Ollins. All right, I teased you. You've had time to think about your answer. You went to Texas A and M. You then went to the University of Texas to get a law degree. I'm assuming that your loyalty stay with your undergrad, as a lot of people's loyalties do. But what was. And if that. If I'm wrong, you can correct me. What was it like to be undercover as an Aggie inside of the University of Texas? Or were you out and out, open and outspoken? And have you recovered from A M's loss to Texas in their final return to rivalry series here so far?

[Brooke Rollins]

Oh, you're. You're stabbing me in the heart with that. Listen, I am an Aggie through and through. I like to say that I increased the IQ of both schools when I left Texas A and M and went over to the University of Texas. And by the way, in Texas, Clay, we call it TU because Texas A and M is the University of Texas. And you know, the school in Austin is just little T, Little you can. Texas University. We kind of overtook Austin. I say we did go behind enemy lines. I went from conservative pro America, Texas A and M. I was student body president there over to the law school. So I am all in on Texas A and M. I don't miss a game. My son is a yell eater. My husband was a yell eater. For a lot of your listeners, they may know what that is. We were there in the stands in Austin the day after. Thanks Thanksgiving. As our heart split into a million pieces again. Thought we were going to make it up a few weeks later against Miami at Kyle Field for that first playoff game. Again, heart split into another gajillion pieces. But, man, my Aggies under coach Elko Marcel Reed, I mean, we've got. The future is so bright and we've got that national championship, I think, just around the corner. And you know, if we do, if we don't, I will continue to be at every single game cheering my Aggies on.

[Clay Travis]

We're talking to Brooke Rollins. Okay, so Buck and I are going to be at the Miami, Indiana national title game on Monday. You just mentioned Miami beat Texas A and M in College Station to start the College Football Playoff. 10 3. You mentioned Marcel Reed, great kid. He goes to a school that my kids. He's a Nashville kid. He goes to a school that my kids attend as well. So who do you have in the national title game, Miami or Indiana? And Buck is still learning to be a college football fan. What advice would you give him as he goes to the national title game on Monday?

[Brooke Rollins]

Buck. Other for first. Last question first. Buck. Other than fighting for America, there is no greater pastime than college football, period. Full stop. No arguments, no question. You got to get to Kyle Field in College Station to really, really experience, I believe, the best atmosphere in college football. Marcel Reed is an amazing kid. I think he represents this new wave of leaders in college football that love their country, that love their Lord, that sets such a great example for all these other young kids. I have four teenagers. It's just remarkable to see I am having to go with Miami. I think Indiana is very impressive. Their win against Oregon was pretty remarkable and obviously very telling. That quarterback, talk about a great model for everybody is just incredible. But my friends in Miami, my brother Marco Rubio, our Secretary of State, my sister Pam Bondi, our Attorney General, we talk about, by the way, we talk about college football in every single cabinet meeting. Just like. Yeah, just like Buck. President Trump isn't fully. Doesn't fully understand the magic of college football, but I'm working on him, too. So he's. He's there as well. He loves it. But I'm going with Miami. They beat my Aggies. I want to see them win it all the way through. And I think it's be great. But love Indiana. What an amazing Cinderella story Indiana is with a coach who was coaching James Madison just a couple of years ago.

[Clay Travis]

Well, you know, I live. I live in Miami. Secretary Rollins. So my beloved Hurricanes are going to be the champions. I just got to go on the record. I got to tell you, my Hurricanes, they're blowing through town.

[Brooke Rollins]

I think they are. I think they are. I. I'm glad to hear that. So I think Miami's going to pull it out, but it's going to be a really good game.

[Clay Travis]

Secretary Rollins, good luck with all those four teenagers, as well as everything else you got going on. Thank you for coming on the show for the first time. Look forward to talking to you again. And I can't wait to see what's going to happen on Monday.

[Brooke Rollins]

I know. I'm so excited. Thanks, y'.

[Clay Travis]

All.

[Brooke Rollins]

Let me know when you're in Aggieland. Would love to host you and be back on soon.

[Clay Travis]

We'll do that. For sure. I. I do think Buck needs to get down to Aggieland because Texas A M is a really, really fun place to go watch a game.

Is that. Is that hookup them? Hook them live.

Oh, no, no, no.

Oh, boy. Whoops.

[Brooke Rollins]

You're killing me. You're killing me.

[Clay Travis]

I actually thought. I actually thought I was gonna get an atta boy on that one. Whoops.

Exactly. Wrong way. You need to throw the horns down.

That would make her horns down.

Buck.

[Brooke Rollins]

Thank you all so much. God bless you. Really fun to be on with y'.

[Clay Travis]

All. Thank you.

That is Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins, who Buck has forever alienated himself from by saying hook him. When hook them is like you're Aggie. Like you want to hook them. Hook them horns. The. The A M is. And everybody else really who plays Texas is the opposite of that. You go horns down. So the horns up is the signal. Like, you'll see Matthew McConaughey, like all the big famous Texas fans on the sideline, they're given the hook em sign. That's basically horns up.

Hold on a second here. You're telling me there's two, like, cutthroat rival college football teams? One has horns up, one has horns down. I'm supposed to know this?

Everybody who is playing against Texas is horns down. They actually had to start in the Big 12. This is getting into the weeds. But they were giving kids players penalties for doing the horns down gesture. So hook them. Hook them is like the. The sign. And so your anti Texas move is the anti hook em, which is horns down.

You college football people with your secret handshakes. I can't keep. I. I'm trying, but I don't even.

Get to get you started on, like, guns up. What has to happen when you're given all the hand gestures at Texas A and M, for example? All right, look, speaking of gestures, Brock Purdy more than one half touchdown pass. Drake May, more than one half touchdown pass. Josh Allen, more than one half. Bo Nicks, more than one half. Now that's NFL. That starts tomorrow. Double game Saturday, double game Sunday. Before we get to college football, if you love football and this audience wildly over indexes for loving football, then 2x you can make 2x if you take Brock Purdy, Drake May, Josh Allen, Bo Nicks, four quarterbacks all to have more than one half touchdown pass. Plus you got a free square there. As we've talked about before, on throwing for one yard passing, C.J. stroud with the Houston Texans. You get hooked up, go to prize picks, all 50 states prizepix.com use my name Clay that's C L A Y Y. That is prizepix.com code Clay $50 in credit deposited into your account. You get $50 right now if you go to prizepix.com code clay and play $5, that's prizepix.com code CLAY. You just heard the pick. It'll be up on clayandbuck.com prizepix.com Code Clay sometimes all you can do is laugh and they do a lot of it with the Sunday hang. Join Clay and Buck as they laugh it up in the Clay and Bug podcast feed on the I Heart Radio.

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You're listening to team 47 with Clay and Buck. We are scheduled to be joined, and I believe we are joined now by Ryan Gardusky. He's a part of the Clay and Buck Podcast network. He does great deep dives on data if you enjoy looking at the actual numbers and seeing exactly what is going on there. We are joined now by Ryan and Ryan, let's start here. You've got a really good interesting piece about the politics, meaning the actual data behind the ICE raids in Minnesota. But this actually ties in with a bigger picture question before we go into the specific on Minnesota starting in 2030. So 2028 we'll have under the existing electoral college. We've talked about this some on the program. Democrats are in for a world of trouble and I think David Axelrod has an opinion piece in the New York Times about this. The so called blue wall states of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Even if Democrats win all three, the math is shifting such that because red states are growing so much faster, that pathway to winning the presidency wouldn't even exist. The Democrats are going to have to start competing in the south and the Southwest in a big way or they're screwed nationally. Not a lot of talk about it. Explain.

[Ryan Gardusky]

Yes. So the way that the map is looking currently, a lot of blue people have been leaving blue states for well over a decade. Right? New York, California, Illinois. And what has happened in the last two decades to keep their populations growing has been immigration. Right. California has lost more American citizens, but because enough immigrants have come, they have managed to keep the population basically the same as it was before COVID They lost a lot during COVID but they bounced back only because of mass immigration. But even with mass immigration of a million people per year, mostly going to those states, it's not enough to keep up pace with how many American citizens are leaving those states. So California, Illinois, Minnesota, New York and Rhode island, those are five deep blue states they're projected to lose. California will likely lose. This is according to current city California lose three congressional seats, Illinois will lose two, Minnesota will lose one, New York will lose one, and Rhode island will lose one. That's quite a number. I mean, that's eight electoral college votes right there. Just not also a House representative members. And those eight votes, those eight electoral college groups are supposed to go to Arizona against one. Florida gets two, Georgia gets one, Idaho gets one, Texas gets three, and Utah gets one. So not only is that a bunch of new Republican members that will come from those red states, the blue states, but the Electoral college map is such that if a Republican wins Ohio, North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Texas and Arizona, they don't need any Midwestern states like from the Rust Belt or from, or Minnesota or Virginia. All those states become completely irrelevant. Georgia and North Carolina become the most important states in the country. And if you lose Georgia, you can still win with just winning Pennsylvania. But nonetheless, all the numbers are moving successfully in a way that it becomes much more difficult than that for the Democrats to capture the White House if they can't win those states.

[Clay Travis]

Ryan, tell us what you think the numbers say about the immigration enforcement operations. Because, because right now, you know, sometimes there's the data that is just out there and maybe there's not as much of an incentive to use it to push a certain point of view. But I've seen over at cnn, for example, they're running. Harry Anthony's running. Oh ICE operations. People have a very negative view of this. Do. Is there, is there a real reason to believe that the operations are changing the mind of the American people overall on this? Is it just some areas? Because. Because for the Trump voter, this is what we voted. I see this. I'm like, yes, more. This is what we voted for.

[Ryan Gardusky]

Same. No. Immigration enforcement is one of those things that they love in theory, not necessarily in practice. So mass ICE agents, very unpopular. The whole idea of not having uniform, very unpopular. Unmarked cars, unpopular. The idea of enforcing immigration law is very popular. Trump's on the border, which is southern immigration. The border is one of the few areas where Trump is still in the positive territory. I also have a belief system is if something about you bothers a certain politician, it's almost like nothing that they can do can be positive. So Trump has negative marks for Venezuela and for the Middle east, which were overwhelmingly successful initiatives. I Think that for a lot of people, the tariffs and the economy and the fact that prices have not come down, which is what many people thought it would, not that inflation hasn't slowed, which it has, but that prices haven't come down because that hasn't happened. And we are are dealing with the hang of, hangover of Biden inflation for three years. People are still very upset about it. So because that hasn't happened, they've soured on almost everything that Donald Trump has done. That's why I kind of don't think the ICE enforcement is the reason people are having this negative opinion about it. Obviously the ranked good story was not a positive story for ICE agents. However, if you look at the whole idea of enforcing immigration, Americans are supportive. There's a very, very smart progressive pollster who actually asked all the different Democratic positions and the most popular position right now is actually AOC's position, which was saying that ICE should be reformed. And what they're saying, this is what Democrats are going to go forward saying that the money for ICE was taken out of your health care funding. That is the play that got the highest numbers as far as polling goes in private polling. And that is most likely what David Shore was the person who does. David Shore sat there and said that is what Democrats should run on going forward.

[Clay Travis]

Okay. This is super important. And I'm going to be honest, years ago when I found this out for the first time, it was mind blowing to me. I still don't think it's very widely known in the United States. Illegal immigrants are counted for purposes of House districts. Right. So everybody has to represent 730,000 or whatever the current math is. And to your point on Minneapolis, state of Minnesota in general, as in theory, these 2.5 million, if that number is right, illegals who have left the country this year, as that continues, if it does in 27, 26 and into 28, it would be a seismic impact when it came to reallocating the seats for the census. Census. Isn't that really what this fight is ultimately about? The Democrats are seeing that. And if this pace continued and if the numbers are right and Suddenly we had 10 million illegals in the country instead of 10 million instead of 20 million, that would dramatically change the overall calibration of House Democrats seats. I think it isn't being talked about enough. That actually seems like the root battle here.

[Buck Sexton]

Right.

[Ryan Gardusky]

So my point, I wrote this before the National Populist newsletter. This will be on my podcast for the Monday episode. I dive very deep into this. It is about what happened in Minnesota. So Since January, about 5,000 illegal aliens have been arrested in Minnesota, which is quite about 2% of the entire illegal alien population estimated. Right. There was a big raid, 2400 were arrested. The number of people that Illinois had to have to retain their 8th congressional district was 89. So they had 89 fewer people. They would have not had the 8th congressional district, which is a Democrat district now. It would have gone to New York. New York would have had, you know, given a Democrat anyway. But when you look at a broader scale of the thousands of the tens of thousands, of the hundreds of thousands, when you look at Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Minnesota, Rhode Island, California, all those places, you're talking about a massive reduction in political power. Especially in these places that have, you know, gerrymandered six days from Sunday, all the different Republican seats, there's not a lot of Republican seats left for Illinois to cut out. I mean, they only have three. They have to lose Democratic seats. New York still, I mean, New York's not that gerrymandered, but California definitely is. Those are Democratic seats, those are Democrat electoral college votes that they're going to be losing for the 2020, 2032 election. All that stuff really matters to the potential of the Democrats, especially to the political influence of places like Minnesota and California. And so all of this stuff really matters. There was a Brookings Institute study that just came out that says they're going to. Our foreign born population decreased by about 100,000 this year and it'll be about 500,000 next year. If that's coming out of New York and California, those numbers, I said those eight electoral college votes, they're losing, that could easily go up to 9 or 10 by the end of the decade. If Trump is able to carry this out. And if we elect another Republican who carries it out through the decade, there's no reason why a dozen seats will not be redistributed away from not only those blue seats, but probably towards places like Alabama or Ohio, places that don't have large foreign born populations. You mentioned about illegal aliens being counted. I'll give you this one statistic very quickly.

[Clay Travis]

Ro.

[Ryan Gardusky]

Khanna.

[Donald Trump]

No way.

[Clay Travis]

Hold on.

Ryan, Ryan. Actually, Ryan, Ryan, slow down a little bit because everyone, you got plenty of time. Slow down and tell everybody this is going to be an important, important stat. I think I know which one you're going to talk about. So please take your time.

[Ryan Gardusky]

Okay, so California 17 district, that's Congressman Rokhani's probably running for president. It's In Northern California, 255,000 people voted in the 2024 election. In that district in California, he won with 170,000 votes. If you look at a regular district in Ohio, Ohio's fourth, Ohio's fifth, these are Republican district districts. A Republican just. The Republican has to get a quarter of a million votes to win. So the threshold for a Maxine Waters to run or Nydia Vasquez or Ro Khanna or any of these Democrats in these big blue states is much, much lower. They have to get fewer votes because so many people are ineligible to vote because they are foreign born residents.

[Clay Travis]

This is Buck. Did you know this? Because I know one of.

Why I subscribe to his national populist newsletter. Very good information.

It's one of the great under discussed data points that should be a point of huge discussion because when you look at it you say, oh, this is because people, this was where their power comes from. The more illegals that flood into these districts, the more seats they get, the more power they have. That to me is such a huge part of the narrative thread that explains why they fight so hard here. Why do they make Kilmar Abreu Garcia the face of their comp, of their, of their entire party? It's basically a company. It's because they have to. What kind of getting to the nitty gritty here, Ryan? How many seats? If, if we did not count illegal immigrants as a part of the overall census for representation in Congress, which to me actually we. That should be the law. Okay, but let's pretend that there were no illegal immigrants in the country. Country. So 20 million people out of the country. How many seats do we think that would cost Democrats in the House?

[Ryan Gardusky]

Roughly it would cost. I mean it. This is something that they've kind of calculated and miscalculated because it's very, very difficult because obviously over time illegal aliens sometimes do become citizens and switch status. It would be around about a dozen seats overall, mostly out of California. The thing is that Texas would lose seats as well. And so as well as Florida, it's not so much a question of just blue states versus red. It's also regional apportionment. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Alabama, the South as a whole and the Midwest as a whole are robbed out of seats because they lose, because they just don't attract huge populations of foreign born. But certainly California would be down about almost four or five seats on its own, let alone New York, New Jersey, Illinois, it's overall about 10 to 12 seats depending on which, which, which. Who's calculating the numbers.

[Clay Travis]

It's amazing, Ryan. You think about how a lot of even Republicans who have been on this for, for years, maybe decades, have been pointing out to this is transforming the electorate in the future by bringing in people who are, you know, if their parents were illegal, they're more likely to be maybe Democrats if they're born here and all these things. But it actually changes the electorate and it changes the political balance of power right now to have all these illegals here. I think that's been the real revelation. Right?

[Ryan Gardusky]

And if, listen, if President Trump continues on his path to make sure that certain peoples can come here, reducing legal immigration as well as an important concept and deporting illegals, this is not just about this year or next year. This is the 2030 decade. That, that is three presidential elections where Democrats will have an. Almost a monument. I mean, if the Georgia changes, who knows? But the, the immense scale that they have to run up in order to have a president elected for that decade. Decade really matters in the next three years. If President Trump backpedals on this or gives up or the political pressure becomes too much or Democrats defund ICE or whatever, that's really what they're looking at. It's not about tomorrow. It is about the 2030 decade. And it will be a very difficult decade for Democrats to win if they don't have this population of illegal aliens surging in places like California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, stuff like that.

[Clay Travis]

Play. This guy knows a lot. I think he should have a podcast where he talks about politics.

[Ryan Gardusky]

Yes.

[Clay Travis]

How can people find you, Ryan, if they don't already know? And again, to buck's point, please go subscribe to the part podcast part of the Clay and Buck podcast network.

[Ryan Gardusky]

Yes, go on the Clay and Buck podcast network. It is on iHeartRadio app at the Apple Podcast, wherever you get it. I have YouTube as well and you can get my newsletter, the national popular newsletter on Substack. And I dive into all these numbers all the time, but the podcast is the most important place where you get new information all the time.

[Clay Travis]

Awesome. Appreciate the work, Ryan. I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as we did. Ed, thank you.

[Ryan Gardusky]

Thank you.

[Clay Travis]

And I'm going to help Brian out. It's a Numbers Game is the name of the podcast. It's a numbers game.

It's a numbers game. You can find it inside of the Clay and Buck Podcast Network.

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