Team 47 - Trump Runs Government Like a Business

Summary

Summary of "Team 47 - Trump Runs Government Like a Business"

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show delves deep into President Donald Trump's approach to governance, drawing parallels between running a government and managing a business. In the "Team 47" episode released on May 11, 2025, hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton explore Trump's economic strategies, foreign policy maneuvers, and the administration's efforts to expedite governmental processes. The episode also features an insightful interview with Senator Rand Paul, focusing on controversial topics surrounding Anthony Fauci and gain-of-function research.

---

1. President Trump's Major Announcement and the Abraham Accords Expansion

The episode opens with Buck Sexton highlighting President Trump's recent Oval Office address, hinting at a significant announcement related to Middle Eastern diplomacy.

• Trump’s Announcement:

  • Timestamp [01:11]: "We'll have maybe before we're going to, as you know, the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, we're going to UAE and Qatar... it's going to be very positive."

• Analysis by Clay and Buck:

  • Timestamp [02:04] Clay suggests the announcement pertains to expanding the Abraham Accords with Saudi Arabia.
  • Buck Sexton [02:04]: "I don't think it's a breakthrough with Iran... it might be an agreement with Saudi that is an extension of the Abraham Accords."

They speculate that the deal could involve substantial economic investments from Saudi Arabia into the U.S., possibly in the range of a trillion dollars over two decades, significantly boosting American industry and infrastructure.

2. Trump's Economic Agenda: Tax Cuts, Deregulation, and Job Growth

Clay and Buck shift focus to Trump's economic policies, emphasizing trade, tax cuts, and deregulation as pillars driving economic growth.

• Insights from Glenn Youngkin:

  • Timestamp [05:16]: "I expect that long term we will have an accelerated growth... already this agenda is bearing fruit. In the first hundred days the new administration, 464,000 new jobs were added to the economy."

• Scott Besson on Job Creation:

  • Timestamp [06:01]: "The core components of the Trump economic agenda are trade tax cuts and deregulation... already this agenda is bearing fruit. In the first hundred days the new administration, 464,000 new jobs were added to the economy."

Buck emphasizes the authenticity of the job numbers, distinguishing them from "make believe" or government-created roles. He attributes this success to the administration’s focus on actionable policies rather than theoretical economics.

3. Government Efficiency: Running the State Like a Business

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Trump's management style, likened to that of a successful business leader.

• Decision-Making Philosophy:

  • Clay Travis [12:12]: "Someone who understands private industry. If you have ever run a business, one of the great things about sitting at the head of the table... it's important because it's a wrong decision."

• Buck Sexton on Government Inertia:

  • Timestamp [13:28]: "Trump is smashing that by moving so fast in so many places."

They compare the agility of the Trump administration to that of a speedboat, capable of rapid adjustments, contrasting it with the slow-moving, bureaucratic "aircraft carrier" nature of the United States government. Historical figures like Lyndon Johnson are mentioned to illustrate the administration's unprecedented speed in policy implementation.

4. Interview with Senator Rand Paul: Anthony Fauci and Gain-of-Function Research

The latter part of the episode features a candid discussion with Senator Rand Paul, who addresses the contentious issue of Anthony Fauci's involvement in gain-of-function research.

• Fauci's Accountability:

  • Timestamp [17:00]: "The committee has documents... we think that’s Anthony Fauci, and we're getting closer to that."

• Concerns Over Gain-of-Function Research:

  • Senator Rand Paul [18:49]: "I'm not saying it's a death wish for humanity... but this kind of research should not occur and the taxpayer shouldn't pay for it."

Paul criticizes the lack of transparency surrounding the funding and decision-making processes related to gain-of-function research, particularly the involvement of EcoHealth Alliance and the NIH. He advocates for legislative measures to establish a panel of independent scientists to oversee and evaluate such research, ensuring it aligns with safety and ethical standards.

5. Tariffs, Trade Agreements, and International Relations

Clay and Buck explore the complexities of U.S. trade policies, especially in the context of recent negotiations with India and potential sanctions on Russia.

• Zero Tariffs with India:

  • Clay Travis [27:10]: "Reports today that India might be willing to go to zero tariffs for American goods... How do you analyze this?"

• Differing Views on Tariffs:

  • Senator Rand Paul [27:54]: "There's a Neanderthal camp... the other camp says... we'd like to see lower tariffs."

Buck analyzes the political landscape, noting that while some advocate for protectionist tariffs to counteract trade deficits, others push for reciprocal agreements and reduced tariffs to foster free trade. He critiques the Lindsey Graham bill proposing a 500% tariff on Russian oil and gas, labeling it as an "embargo" that could cripple global commerce.

6. Government Spending and Fiscal Responsibility

The episode concludes with a brief discussion on government spending cuts and the challenges of passing fiscal restraint measures through Congress.

• Spending Cuts Challenges:
  • Senator Rand Paul [30:02]: "None of them actually count until they come back to Congress... If the Congress can't even cut 9 billion, then I say... plan on a full scale bankruptcy of the country."

Paul underscores the difficulty in achieving meaningful spending reductions without bipartisan cooperation, emphasizing the importance of fiscal responsibility to prevent national bankruptcy.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Senator Rand Paul on Preemptive Pardon:

  • Timestamp [18:49]: "He's pardoned for anything he could have done over a 10 year period. It's the craziest thing I've ever heard."

• Clay Travis on Government as a Superstructure:

  • Timestamp [09:29]: "The United States is the largest floatable ship on the planet. It's very hard to turn it in any particular direction."

• Buck Sexton on Decision-Making Under Threat:

  • Timestamp [12:12]: "The CIA Farm... get off the X and they would... make no decision."

---

Conclusion

In this episode of Team 47, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton provide a comprehensive analysis of President Trump's administration, highlighting its business-like efficiency, ambitious economic policies, and proactive foreign relations strategies. The conversation with Senator Rand Paul adds depth to the discourse on governmental transparency and accountability, particularly concerning public health research. The episode underscores the complexities of balancing economic growth, international diplomacy, and ethical governance in the modern political landscape.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Line2 Advertiser]

You know that feeling when you're about to score 30% off? But they want your number. Ugh. Give them your line 2 number instead. It's a second line on your phone, perfect for nabbing promo codes without inviting spam to your party. Sign up for every discount under the sun, then block the junk texts that follow. You get all the perks, but none of the spammy baggage. More codes, less chaos. Visit line2.com audio or download line2 in the app Store and get your shopping sidekick today. Because the only thing blowing up your phone should be good deals.

[Clay Travis]

The Team 47 podcast is sponsored by.

[Buck Sexton]

Good ranchers making the American Farm strong again.

[Clay Travis]

Team 47 with Clay and Buck starts now.

[Buck Sexton]

Hot off the presses, so to speak. Clips of President Trump from the Oval Office addressing some of the most important news of the day. So let's start with the huge announcement. Probably some people are saying the biggest announcement of all. Announcements we don't yet know much other than, well, here's the president saying it. Listen to him.

[Donald Trump]

We'll have maybe before we're going to, as you know, the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, we're going to UAE and Qatar, and that'll be, I guess, Monday night. Some of you are coming with us. I think before then, we're going to have a very, very big announcement to make, like as big as it gets. And I won't tell you on what, but it's going to. And it's very positive. I'd also, I tell you if it was negative or positive. I can't keep that out. It is really, really positive. And that announcement will be made either Thursday or Friday or Monday before we leave. But it'll be one of the most important announcements that have been made in many years about a certain subject. Very important subject.

[Clay Travis]

So you'll all be here, I'm guessing it's gotta be the Abraham Accords with Saudi Arabia coming on board. Yes. Does that make sense to you?

[Buck Sexton]

That makes the most sense to me, too. I don't think it's a breakthrough with Iran. We would have gotten some whispers about that beforehand. And plus, I just don't think Iran's ever going to say, you know what, we're not going to get nukes. So I think the Saudi. It might be an agreement with Saudi that is an extension of the Abraham Accords and also a commitment from Saudi to invest, you know, a trillion dollars in the US over the next 20 years or something. I don't know, whatever. A trillion dollars. A lot of money, not so much to Saudi. I feel like they'll pay that for a soccer team these days. But yeah, that's something that I think is, is a likely possibility. I would love to think that it would be, you know, returning all the hostages from, from Israel, I mean, from Hamas to Israel. But I, I think that that is now going into a different phase of the Israelis are doing the final push in that operation as, as they well should. And that's going to change some dynamics in the Middle east too.

[Clay Travis]

I also think it has to be someone that you have good relations with in order to be confident that that deal is going to be able to be announced. Does that make sense? Like, Iran is constantly shifting. They may say something on Wednesday that's different than what they said on Monday. You can't really rely on them. Hamas, you can't rely on anything related to what they might say publicly. So I think it would have to be someone that the government would have a good relationship with that you could rely on being reasonable. I don't think you could say, for instance, with Vladimir Putin and Russia that you feel comfortable enough in them to even forecast something like this. So that's why I think the idea of the Abraham Accords being expanded, which is hugely important, long range in the Middle east, by the way. This is something that is significant that I saw also there's a report that Trump, I don't know if we, if he said this or if this is an official report that India has basically agreed to zero tariffs on American products inside of their country. That could be utterly transformative in the decades ahead because India is now the biggest country in the world. And unlike China, which is collapsing in population and I think has already peaked, I think India is going to become the second biggest economy in the world in the next 50 years.

[Buck Sexton]

And this then I think is a good moment for us to take a look at what is being said now from some very interesting, very astute places about the Trump tariffs conversation. Glenn Youngkin, one of the, I would say top five, maybe top ten top five governors in America right now in Virginia doing a great job and also a former very senior level executive and he was the CEO of the Carlisle Group, which is one of the largest private equity firms in the world. This is the governor of Virginia and like I said, a guy who also understands private industry saying that. Well, I'll let you hear it from him. This is cut three.

[Glenn Youngkin]

I expect that long term we will have an accelerated growth and I'm very optimistic. I think in the near term. As the president resets these imbalanced trade relationships and restores fiscal responsibility into Washington, we're going to see dislocation. It's just a reality. And but what I do firmly expect is investment from companies around the world to accelerate. I expect job growth to accelerate.

[Buck Sexton]

I think you're already beginning to see some of that. The jobs numbers. This is Scott Besson. This is cut one in the first hundred days. You need to hear about these jobs. Remember, it's not all government, you know, make believe jobs or at least low show jobs. It's jobs in the actual economy. Play. This is from the Treasury Secretary. Play 1.

[Scott Besson]

The core components of the Trump economic agenda are trade tax cuts and deregulation. These are not standalone policies. They are interlocking parts of an engine designed to drive economic growth and domestic manufacturing. Tax cuts and cost savings from deregulation raise real incomes for families and businesses. Tariffs create an incentive for reshoring jobs. And fair trade and deregulation complements tariffs by making it easier to invest in in energy and manufacturing projects. Already this agenda is bearing fruit. In the first hundred days the new administration, 464,000 new jobs were added to the economy.

[Buck Sexton]

Clay, people just need to give this some time. And I think what you're seeing here is first of all, I just 15 years in conservative media, in the beginning of this, when I got into this, we would always hear we need private industry minds in government. We need people who understand how jobs are created in the economy, not by siphoning money from taxpayers to people who don't actually necessarily do anything or add anything. With some of these government, with some of this government bloat. We have this now in a way we not only on the advisors, but Trump himself. Right. Somebody who understands the private sector. You look at even Scott Besant, you compare him to Biden's treasury secretary, Janet Yellen. Yellen is an, an academic economist. Ok. That's who was running the treasury before. Besant is a guy who had to place multibillion dollar bets and be right about the trajectory of economic growth, about what was actually going to happen in the global economy. We have doers and practitioners now, Clay, not theorists and faculty lounge layabouts.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

And again, I think that's why, you know, the caller from San Diego is fired up. I think people sometimes have unrealistic expectations of what is capable of doing with the ship of state. And I've had this analogy made to me a lot over the years. You know, in the world of sports, the smaller the team, the Quicker, you can adjust the direction. So if you're a basketball coach, it's like a speedboat. You can change a couple players. You can turn it around. Football teams, like an aircraft carrier. The United States is the largest floatable ship on the planet. It's very hard to turn it in any particular direction. Now, sometimes that can be good because if people make really poor choices, then the degree to which they can shift the direction of the country is limited. Buck, you've made the argument for years here, and it's a pessimistic one, but I think there's some truth to it, that the President doesn't largely matter because the apparatus surrounding the President is such that they're going to direct the ship in the way they see best. And you made that argument.

[Buck Sexton]

Can I just say Biden was a test of my theory?

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

Right. Biden was a real world experiment of is it the machinery and not the man With Trump, that's obviously not the case, but I'm just saying it can be what we just saw.

[Clay Travis]

Well, and this is why I think Elon Musk has been so frustrated. And look, I love that Elon Musk and Scott Besant and Howard Ludnick and all of these guys that are super successful outside of government are in government trying to do their best. Trump is a great example of that too, but in sports, and I've never seen it applied in politics, but. But I love the concept and it's such an interesting one. There's something called win over replacement value and it's a. I think you can apply it to all of your life. It's such an interesting concept. You know, there's basically a war. You know, win above replacement for every player. And I mentioned Aaron Judge is the best player in baseball right now statistically across the board. His stats in New York, Yankee player are off the charts. He is worth multiple wins compared to someone that might be replacing him at a position. I think you can apply it to politics. How much better is Trump not only than any other Republican, but then Kamala, I think massively right, because over every day, every decision, the trajectory of the USS aircraft carrier is very different based on the judgments Trump is making versus what Kamala is making versus what Biden did. But within the constraints, I would argue that it is impossible for any president to move faster and break more things than Trump has done in the first hundred days. And therefore, when you call in and say, and I understand people get frustrated, but I think it's important to understand the larger construct. There are people out there who will tell you, oh, the president can do whatever he wants and he could take 48,000 different actions. And the reality is Trump is moving faster and breaking more things than anything I have ever seen from any president in the history of our country. And if you are out there saying he needs to move faster and he needs to break more things, I respect it. I would just point out that historically, no one has moved at the pace that Trump has ever in the history of the United States government. I really think that's true. And they're trying to make government move more like a business. And if you have ever run a business, one of the great things about sitting at the head of the table, if you own the business, is for better or worse, you make a decision and buck. One of the management lessons that I think I've learned is it's better to make a wrong decision than not do anything. And some people think that's crazy, but actually it's important because it's a wrong decision.

[Buck Sexton]

One of the things that at the CIA Farm, this is our training facility, that they would always talk about in the context of counter ambush. Somebody's trying to take you out. They would just. And I know this military talks about this too, but they would say, get off the X and they would. They drilled into our brain. When you are under threat, the worst thing you can do. Breathe is nothing. The worst thing you can do is I don't want to make the wrong decision, so I make no decision. Yes, you can pay with your life for that one. There's a broader lesson there. There's a broader principle there. You gotta just do sometimes because sitting around, and especially given the time constraints I think the Trump administration is under with the midterms, as we've discussed, that moving as fast as possible. Moving as fast as possible is its own advantage in a system which we've already seen for all of our adult, for all of our lives that can always fall back on inaction as its preferred plan. And the Democrats were hoping that there would be inertia even with Trump coming in. The inertia of government would be a protection for what they want, which is the status quo.

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

No, he's smashing that by moving so fast in so many places.

[Clay Travis]

And I would argue, again, this is me being a history nerd. Probably the person who's moved the government the fastest in the lives of anyone out there that is listening to us right now, certainly the adult lives of anyone that's listening is Lyndon Johnson. And Lyndon Johnson was able to move the government so rapidly in his one term, after one term plus change, when he took over for, for jfk because he was a genius of Senate procedure. And so he was able to move Congress at a speed in the Senate in particular that it had never moved at before because he knew the inner workings of procedure in the Senate, having spent time there better than almost anyone.

[Buck Sexton]

A corollary to that was Charlie Wilson's war where I, for Doc, whatever his name is, I forget now, but the member of Congress who was like on the, on the, you know, the Finance, the spending committee, whatever it was at the time, and Charlie Wilson knew if I just got this guy in my pocket, I got whoever I need in my pocket to get the things through that I need to get through. So understanding that system is critical. Trump has come in not just with the right team to decide, but with people like Stephen Miller and others who know how the system functions. And this is part of what I think. Clay has driven Democrats so insane because first time around, Trump, great ideas, first term, not an understanding of the system. So it's a huge, huge difference this time around.

[Line2 Advertiser]

Some matches are temporary, but your privacy shouldn't be. With line two, you get a second phone line just for dating. No need to share your personal number until you're ready. You can chat, text, and even block numbers, all while keeping things fun and private. It's perfect for online dating, blind dates, or just keeping things light. When you're ready to move on, line two lets you cut ties without any drama. Dating should be fun and carefree. Line two keeps it that way. Ready to date on your terms. Visit linetoo.com audio or download line 2 in the App Store today.

[Leon Nayfak]

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency.

[Buck Sexton]

Did you make a mistake in sending.

[Podcast Host]

Arms to Tehran, sir?

[Clay Travis]

No.

[Leon Nayfak]

It became known as the Iran Contra affair.

[Podcast Host]

And I'm not taking any more questions. In just a second, I'm going to ask.

[Leon Nayfak]

I'm Leon Nayfak, co creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco Iran Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today.

[Buck Sexton]

The things that happened were so bizarre and intense, I can't begin to tell you. Please do.

[Leon Nayfak]

To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

You're listening to team 47 with Clay and Buck. We're joined now by Senator Rand Paul, a great state of Kentucky, and Senator Paul, I know there's a ton of things we're gonna get into with you, but I wanna start with this. Anthony Fauci. The evidence continues to mount that he lied about gain of function research. You uniquely, I think, in the entire political class, have continued to hold his feet to the fire. What is the latest about that that you can tell us?

[Podcast Host]

We've been trying to get records on the deliberation of who made the call to send the money to Wuhan. The research leak, who funded it. We know the NIH did it, but we want to know who met about it, who discussed it, and who made the final approval. We think that's Anthony Fauci, and we're getting closer to that. The Biden administration refused to give us any documents. They basically refused for years to give any. Robert Kennedy has opened up the books to us. Jay Bhattachary at NIH is also helping us, and we're sorting through it. We're going to begin interviewing everybody who's part of the process. So there's a committee over there that discussed it when Fauci said everybody told him that it wasn't gain of function. It's interesting, though, that the committee has documents, and in the documents they have EcoHealth Alliance. This is a group that got the money that took it to Wuhan. They have EcoHealth alliance sending notes back to the NIH saying, thank you for lifting our gain of function pause. So they were paused. The government quit funding gain of function between 2014 and 2016. They thanked them for lifting their paws on the same research that Fauci said was never again function. So how do you lift a pause in funding for a project that was never gained a function if it was never going to function? So we've got evidence like that. But ultimately, once we've interviewed everybody, we will get to Anthony Fauci. That will be within a month or two. And we'll be having him come in and testify.

[Buck Sexton]

In terms of that testimony, what are you hoping to be able to get final answers from Fauci on? And given the Senator Paul, given the preemptive pardon that he was given, which is still pretty remarkable when I say that out loud that that even happened, what are you hoping the final disposition of this whole situation will be?

[Podcast Host]

You know, you realize with a preemptive pardon, where they don't even list your crime, that he's pardoned for anything. Stealing, you know, larceny, grand larceny assault, you name it. He's pardoned for anything he could have done over a 10 year period. It's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I've never ever heard of a pard preemptive and also includes any possible crime he committed over a 10 year period. I don't have high hopes that he's going to be ultimately held criminally responsible, but I think it's important that history judges him accurately and harshly. He made a decision that led to the million millions of people dying, basically a decision to fund a lab that was not up to safety standards and fund research that was incredibly dangerous. We also are concerned that this kind of research still goes on. So the President came out in the last day or so with a pause once again on gain of function research importantly, not just in our country, but a pause on all funding we do around the world. Because of course, you know, Uncle Sam funds everybody's research lab everywhere in the world. And some of these, some of this, some people conjecture Anthony Fauci farmed out because he wanted less scrutiny. So if he wanted, you know, for example, some of the most gruesome stuff that was done on beagles was done in Tunisia. They did in Tunisia hoping that their sensibilities about sewing their eyelids open and infecting them with sand fleas and then cutting their larynx out so you couldn't hear the dogs cry, that there'd be less sensibility for that somewhere else other than the United States. But same way with gain of function, we think some of it was farmed out. We need to know the degree of this and we need to get to the bottom of it. We're also very concerned with a couple of labs near Fort Detrick. Kennedy closed one down and the media reported he was anti science. I heard the accurate story from Jay Bhattachary. The accurate story is someone's hazmat suit was purposely cut in one of the areas dealing with Ebola and different very dangerous viruses. So getting that kind of disease out of a lab, if he were to have gotten infected is incredibly dangerous. And so next to that lab is an nih, no, a DHS lab, Department of Homeland Security, that we now have reports are doing experiments aerosolizing Ebola. We think that somebody, you know, somebody representing the taxpayer and the citizens of the country ought to be able to take a look at these labs and find out what experiments are doing and really should we be doing some of this?

[Clay Travis]

I think both, all of this you just said is really important because I think it answers two questions. One, it is backward looking in the context of Fauci should be seen as a villain of history, and his full trajectory of stories and lies should be analyzed for years to come. That's backwards looking, prospectively, as you just laid out. The reason why this matters is if China created Covid, which I think it's quite clear that they did, partly based on having gain of function, access to American taxpayer dollars, we should be massively concerned about, as you just laid out, whatever the next iteration of the virus that could be created is, because it could end up far more deadly than anything that we dealt with with COVID I think that's kind of a synthesis of all of this for people out there who would say, okay, why are we still talking about COVID Well, you.

[Podcast Host]

Know, the next virus could be avian flu. Avian flu has a 50% death rate. Coronavirus or Covid was less than 1%. So avian flu, currently, can you. Can a human can get it from chickens or from birds, but it doesn't go human to human. But there are experiments trying to get it to go human to human, mammal to mammal, through the air. These have been funded by nih. This is the kind of stuff that has to be discussed. Is it a death wish for humanity for someone to try to get avian flu and make it more transmissible among humans? I think we should be shouting this from the rooftops. This kind of research should not occur and the taxpayer shouldn't pay for it. But I don't know that we've actually gotten to that point yet. The Trump administration's ban, at least temporary or maybe longer on this is a good step. I have legislation that would do this. We actually have gotten bipartisan support. I passed it out unanimously out of committee last Congress. I'm going to do it again in the next month or so. And then we're hoping it can be included in some kind of legislation that's going to pass soon. But this would actually let President Trump appoint a panel of scientists. And importantly, these scientists would not be ones who get NIH grants. So they can't be bribed to have an opinion. They will be independent voices, but experts in their field, and they will examine all government research, have access to all classified and unclassified documents, and they will give their opinion on whether it should be funded, and they will have the ability to stop funding. It will be a powerful committee, but it won't be a total ban. It would be. We're going to look at case by case, the Reason you need that is if you just ban it and then the next people come in and say, well, that's not going to function. That's what Anthony Fauci did said, oh, yeah, we were, we were had special safety for gain of function, but this wasn't gain of function. Anthony Fauci to this day still argues that the research in Wuhan that led to the death of six to 10 million people, he said that wasn't gain of function, which nobody else believes other than Anthony Fauci.

[Buck Sexton]

Speaking to Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Senator, on President Trump today, he spoke about the Houthis. I think he said there's a deal that they have now. Essentially it's please stop bombing us and we'll stop blowing up ships. But the Houthis are an extension and an allied with Iran. There's a lot of talk right now about one of kind of, I think you could say a rare disconnect or disagreement at the senior levels of some of the Trump personnel. And it has to do with Iran and what we should do about Iran and its nuclear ambitions going forward. How do you see that? Where do you think Trump is on this and where would you like to see this go?

[Podcast Host]

You know, I'm encouraged by the announcement today, and Trump shows great strength and they backed down. So I think that is a good thing. And my hope is that we can get to a point where international shipping is safe to go around the bend there and up through the Suez. With regard to Iran, my hope is that we can move forward. And this is where Trump is different than some of the neoconservatives. The neoconservatives never want to get to the next step of negotiation. So Trump goes in with a firm hand, but he does get to the next step of negotiation. He did it with North Korea necessarily work out. But most of the neocons, from Hillary Clinton to Bill Kristol, would have never talked to North Korea. They would never talk to an Iran. Ultimately, getting to the point where we talk to them is good because really, the only realistic way of stopping them from getting a nuclear weapon is in all likelihood through diplomacy. I don't think you can bomb away their nuclear knowledge. I don't think once they have enriched uranium, you know, a cup full of uranium enriched to 95 or 98% is probably enough for a bomb. Once you get six or eight or ten cupfuls of uranium, you're missed to that point. You have the rest of the technical knowledge to do it. You know, you can hide that thousands of Feet below the ground where no bomb can get to. So, you know, I don't want that to happen. We want to stop it, but ultimately it has to be both stick and carrot. And so ultimately you have to talk to people and you have to. This is the same thing we should be doing with Russia. You know, they're wanting to put more sanctions on Russia. The. The Lindsey Graham bill wants to put a 500% tariff on everybody who buys oil from Russia. You know what that is? That's about 40 or 50 countries buy oil and gas from Russia. A 500% tariff would be a shutdown of basically all commerce in the world. I mean, it's a terrible idea. What we should be doing instead is going to Russia and say, you want to get back in the banking system, you want to get rid of some sanctions, bombing Venezuela, and let's have a ceasefire and peace talks. I think we have the ability to offer stuff, but I think it's. I think you. We have so many sanctions already on these countries that really, to get to diplomacy and get to the peace, the peace should be offering to remove sanctions and allow Russia back into the banking world. But they have to do something real. It has to be real ceasefire and has to really ultimately be a peace plan.

[Clay Travis]

All right, I know it's a complicated topic, but I want to give you an opportunity to weigh in on tariffs and analyze this. Reports today that India might be willing to go to zero tariffs for American goods. It seems to me that there is dual arguments here. One is, you hear from a lot of Trump people, hey, we want to actually eliminate many of the tariffs and have more free trade. The other argument is we need to have more protectionist trade, potentially with China, other countries. How do you analyze this? What should we do? And bigger picture, how does it impact the big beautiful bill? I know that's a big question, but the tax cut bill that's currently making its way along with border security through.

[Podcast Host]

Congress right now, there's two camps on tariffs. They're all pro tariff in the Trump administration, but two camps. One is the Neanderthal camp. The Neanderthal camp says that we keep tariffs on until there's no more trade deficits. Well, you think we're ever going to get to the point where Bangladesh buys as much from us as we buy from them? Same with Vietnam. We're a very rich country, and part of a trade deficit is when you're richer, you buy more stuff from other people than they buy from you. So it's just. That's a ridiculous Neanderthal sort of argument. The other camp says, well, we want reciprocal agreements, we want fairness, but we'll, you know, we'd like to see lower tariffs. That's a more reasonable camp. And I've actually said, well, I'm not for the tariffs, and I think tariffs are misguided. If Trump is able to use as a negotiating technique the ability to lower tariffs with India and they get to a much lower level than when we started, I'll be the first to compliment him on that. But realize that the tariff bill or the sanction bill that Lindsey is proposing on Russia actually would tariff because India and China are the two biggest purchasers of oil and gas from Russia. And if you put a 500% tariff, that's going the opposite way. So I don't think we're going to zero. If we pass this new Russia sanction bill, that puts a 500% tariff. A 500% tariff is an embargo. It's almost like a declaration of war, basically. So it's a really, really, really foolish notion. But if, you know, they come up with a deal with India, I will be the first to compliment the president and say, great job. You know, if he gets, if he gets lower tariffs, we'll see what happens. But I think that should be the goal, really, with every country, and I would say even including China, because I think the moment that we have no trade with China is the moment that they become less predictable and, and potentially more militaristic.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator, one more for you. We only got about a minute, but I just wanted to hear you weigh in on this, because I know government spending and our unsustainable debt is something you've been talking about for a long time, the Doge cuts. I'm hearing there's been some cuts actually made, a lot of cuts advised. What do you think? Where are we on that?

[Podcast Host]

None of them actually count until they come back to Congress. So if you say you've cut spending, unless it's actually booked by Congress and Congress votes on it, it doesn't really. It hasn't been transmitted or accounted for. There's supposed a rescission package. It can be voted on by a simple majority that's coming back to US of only 9 billion. That's a pittance. That's a rounding error. I'm for it, but I'll say, send us more, please. We'll see. But right now we have. We've been hearing about that for two weeks and haven't seen that. And if that gets over here and the weak need. Republicans won't vote for that. Then I say, Katie, bar the door. You might as well plan on a full scale bankruptcy of the country if the Congress can't even cut 9 billion.

[Buck Sexton]

On that note, Senator Rand Paul, thank you for being with us. As always, sir, we appreciate it.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you.

[Scott Besson]

Ugh.

[Line2 Advertiser]

Spam calls. Sound familiar? Introducing line two. Get a second phone number right on your existing phone. Imagine discounts, appointments online, forms. Handle it all without giving out your personal number. It's like having a secret weapon against spam. And when those unwanted calls sneak through, boom.

[Buck Sexton]

Blocked.

[Line2 Advertiser]

No more interruptions, no more stress. Stay connected, stay protected. Keep your main number safe and out of harm's way. Ready to take back your phone? Visit line2.com audio or download line2 in the App Store.

[Podcast Host]

Today you're listening to an iHeart podcast.