The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: The Karol Markowicz: From Reagan to Relationships: Craig Shirley’s Playbook for Politics (and Life)
Date: August 22, 2025
Host: Carol Markowitz (guest hosting for Clay & Buck)
Guest: Craig Shirley

Overview

This episode features Karol Markowitz in conversation with prominent author, historian, and public affairs consultant Craig Shirley. The discussion traverses Shirley's journey from young political activist to renowned Reagan biographer, his insights into American conservatism, and his outlook on life, politics, leadership, and personal growth. The tone is warm, reflective, and infused with anecdotes about political life, leadership, and family.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Craig Shirley’s Path into Politics (03:00–12:50)

• Early Influences and Family:

  • Shirley grew up in a politically active family; his father was the first registered conservative in New York State (04:52).
  • "My father was actually the first registered conservative in the state of New York when it became an official political party back in 1961...so he could be the first person registered." (Craig Shirley, 04:52)
  • Exposure to conservative luminaries from a young age and a formative moment watching Reagan's 1976 Kansas City convention speech on TV (06:51).

• Unexpected Career Turns:

  • Shirley initially aimed to be a gym teacher and lacrosse coach.
  • Gradually drawn into politics through volunteer work, starting with local campaigns and culminating in an internship with Senator Jacob Javits ("I didn’t know you could do politics as your profession, you know." – 08:30).

• Rise through the Political Ranks:

  • Took on roles ranging from press secretary to campaign manager, learning on the job.
  • Involved early in the Reagan campaign, running independent expenditures to support Reagan in 1980 (12:50).
  • Pride in contributing to Reagan’s nomination turnaround.

The Enduring Fascination with Reagan (13:53–18:08)

• Why Reagan?

  • Markowitz shares her own personal and family connection to Reagan as a Soviet émigré.
  • Shirley describes Reagan’s intelligence (IQ estimated at 175), voracious reading, and genuine personality:
    • "He was utterly the same in private as he was in public. ... He was compelling, who was...friendly, who was charming. He was like that in private, too." (Craig Shirley, 16:30)
  • Emphasizes Reagan's moral, intellectual, and physical presence:
    • "A true leader has a physical, intellectual and moral presence. Reagan had a physical, intellectual and moral presence." (Craig Shirley, 18:45)

• Narrative Power:

  • Reagan’s storytelling and ability to articulate the primacy of individual liberty and dignity were central to Shirley’s admiration.
  • Example: Reagan’s famous use of humor and wit during debates (Carol Markowitz recalls playing the "I won’t hold my opponent’s youth and inexperience against him" quip for her kids).

Reflections on American Political Culture and Family (19:04–20:57)

• Current Concerns:
  • Shirley’s immediate worries are personal: book deadlines and the future of his children.
  • Playful recounting of ideological differences within his own family:
    • "Unfortunately, two of them are left wing nuts. ... we’ve got two that are just phrased left wing nut balls." (Craig Shirley, 19:55)
    • Family debates about cultural topics, e.g., "Can a man have a baby?" with his son referencing seahorses.

Advice for the Next Generation and Personal Lessons (24:19–28:25)

• What Shirley Would Tell His 16-Year-Old Self:
  • "Have more fun."
  • Save money, read more, be careful with finances, and never smoke (24:25).
• How He Quit Smoking and Drinking:
  • Shirley shares a deeply personal story of overcoming decades-long habits through prayer:
    • "One night...I got down on my knees and I prayed and the next morning I woke up and both cravings were gone." (Craig Shirley, 26:33)
    • No smoking or regular drinking since then.

Shirley’s Playbook for Life (28:03–28:25)

• Top Tips for Listeners:
  • "Read, read, read and make as many friends as possible. Pray as much as possible. Love as much as possible. Read Strunk and White." (Craig Shirley, 28:03)
  • Favorite quote: “Authors and artists and actors and such never know nothing, but always know much.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I thought I was going to be a gym teacher. I thought I was going to coach lacrosse. ... politics just seemed to gravitate toward that." – Craig Shirley (04:52)
• "I didn’t know you could do politics as your profession, you know." – Craig Shirley (08:30)
• "My father was prescient in that regard...after [Reagan's 1964 Goldwater speech] he said, this man...should be president." – Craig Shirley (14:29)
• "He was utterly the same in private as he was in public." – Craig Shirley (16:30)
• "A true leader has a physical, intellectual and moral presence. Reagan had a physical, intellectual and moral presence." – Craig Shirley (18:45)
• "Unfortunately, two of them are left wing nuts...we got two that are just phrased left wing nut balls." – Craig Shirley (19:55)
• "One night...I got down on my knees and I prayed and the next morning I woke up and both cravings were gone." – Craig Shirley (26:33)
• "Read, read, read and make as many friends as possible. Pray as much as possible. Love as much as possible." – Craig Shirley (28:03)
• "Authors and artists and actors and such never know nothing, but always know much." – Dorothy Parker, quoted by Craig Shirley (28:19)

Timeline & Timestamps

• 03:00–04:44: Karol’s personal story of her first job with Shirley and introduction
• 04:44–12:50: Shirley’s background: family, education, first steps in politics
• 13:53–18:08: Why Reagan—qualities, anecdotes, personal impact
• 19:04–20:57: Present-day concerns and family political divides
• 24:19–26:48: Advice to his younger self, lesson on smoking/drinking, power of prayer
• 28:03–28:25: Shirley’s advice for listeners, literary recommendations

Conclusion

This episode offers a rich tapestry of political history, personal anecdotes, and practical wisdom from one of the conservative movement’s noted historians. Shirley’s humility, humor, and honesty shine as he shares his reverence for Reagan, his own journey, and the lessons learned along the way. The conversation is warm, insightful, and sprinkled with memorable advice—an uplifting primer on leadership, family, and living a principled life.