The Karol Markowicz Show: Abigail Shrier on Friendship, Technology, and the Loneliness of a Generation

Date: August 29, 2025
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts)
Guest: Abigail Shrier, journalist and author
Host: Karol Markowicz

Episode Overview

This episode features a thoughtful conversation between Karol Markowicz and journalist Abigail Shrier about the decline in marriage, friendship, and in-person relationships among young people. They delve into how technology, shifting cultural expectations, and generational fearfulness contribute to growing loneliness and disconnection. Shrier draws on her journalistic work and personal experiences to examine how individuals—and especially women—navigate friendship, romance, and community in a changing society.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Decline in Marriage and Relationships

(03:15 - 07:34)

• Karol highlights recent statistics from a Wall Street Journal article: “The share of women age 18 to 40 who are single...was 51.4% in 2023...up from 41.8% in 2000.”
  (04:41)
• The issue extends beyond marriage: young people are increasingly opting out of cohabitation and friendships as well.
• Karol observes: It’s not just that women are prioritizing careers over relationships—“they are focused on their jobs because they can't find a man.”
  (06:43)

2. Why Write Controversial Books?

(11:40 - 14:44)

• Markowicz asks Shrier why she chooses to tackle controversial subjects despite the backlash:

  "You could be writing about anything, but you're choosing to go into the lion's den. Why?" (11:40)

• Abigail Shrier responds:

  “I write about what interests me… I always feel that I feel personally much safer in a world where I feel like I have full information… The truth is, more than sort of public opprobrium, things that worry me is really not knowing or being fooled.” (12:11)

• Shrier credits her calm, rational tone for making her more effective—and thus a bigger target for activists, as her work is hard to ignore.

3. Career Journey and Legal Background

(14:40 - 17:33)

• Shrier describes her journalistic beginnings, advice to learn a field deeply, and eventual decision to go to law school after witnessing the precarious financial situation of young journalists.
• Her legal training now helps her write about law accurately and consult with expert sources, which is an asset in journalism.

4. Living in California—A "Candy Store" for a Culture Journalist

(17:33 - 18:48)

• Despite California’s well-publicized problems, Shrier finds value in staying:

  “There is really no better way to look at how the culture has gone drastically off course... than to be in the state where a lot of those bad ideas and bad policies get started.” (17:48)

• Her family remains content due to a good local school and community.

5. The Real Crisis: Young People’s Disconnection

(18:48 - 24:42)

• Shrier’s greatest concern:

  “Why young people are not forming relationships, healthy relationships... They’re too young to know that they’re giving up on the best things in life.” (18:49)

• Many young adults believe they must build their careers before focusing on romance, but Shrier argues the best years for finding a partner align with youth and biological reality.
• She points out how technology, especially phones and the internet, intensifies loneliness and avoidance of real-life interaction:

  “Interpersonal relationships are the scariest and most risky things you’ll ever get involved in, and they’re also the most rewarding… We’ve raised this generation to be the most fearful.” (20:24)

6. The Crisis of Friendship

(24:42 - 26:22)

• Both host and guest discuss the observed decline in platonic friendships among teens and young adults.
• Shrier reflects that lasting friendships, even those with conflict, become incredibly meaningful over time—something today’s youth may be missing:

  “Years go by and... it has this amazing cementing effect of making your friendship so meaningful and so strong… I do very much worry that kids are missing out on those close friendships.” (25:11)

7. Parenting, Technology, and Seeking Community

(26:22 - 28:47)

• Shrier admits the difficulty of limiting screen time, especially when schools mandate computer use.
• Her family uses strict phone policies (e.g., “kosher phones” for her sons—apps but no open internet).
• Advice for improving life:

  “Honestly, the easiest, quickest, most assured way to do this is to join a religious community, join a church, join a synagogue… That is the most direct way to sort of immediately improve your life.” (28:04)

8. Personal Growth and Authenticity

(28:47 - 32:17)

• Advice to her younger self:

  “I spent a lot of years thinking my personality was just wrong… But it turns out, there’s really a place for you no matter your personality.” (28:51)

• She shares how being straightforward (sometimes seen as unfeminine or abrasive in young women) has become an asset in journalism.

• Karol and Abigail bond over having had more male friends as teens, and the current social pushback against that choice.

9. Impact of Shrier’s Work and Shifting the Conversation

(32:17 - 35:47)

• Karol notes a shift in public conversation around transgender issues and child therapy since Shrier’s books emerged.

• Shrier’s goal with her books:

  “I try to create a document that people can take, that’s full of information and that can really add to the discourse... I try to be a resource in that way.” (33:01)

• She notes the complementary value of books and podcasts—books providing depth and permanence; podcasts, reach and accessibility.

• On her legacy: Sometimes she feels she hasn’t received enough credit, but:

  “I’m always looking at sort of what’s ahead and what the next issue is... I like being able to move on to the next topic and reveal something else if I can.” (34:47)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Modern Dating and Relationships:
  “It’s not that women are focused on their jobs. It’s that they are focused on their jobs because they can’t find a man… Am I right? Is the whole she’s just a career woman a red herring?” – Karol Markowicz (06:43)

• Why Write Controversial Books:
  “Things that worry me is really not knowing or being fooled. And those things actually do scare me.” – Abigail Shrier (12:34)

• On the Decline of Friendship:
  “We look back on our lives, friendships and romantic relationships... these are at the top of what gives you meaning and satisfaction in life.” – Abigail Shrier (25:11)

• Parenting and Phones:
  “Let me just acknowledge that it’s near impossible to manage the phones and the computers. It’s so hard. And the schools have made it harder than any, I think any institution.” – Abigail Shrier (26:47)

• On the Value of Community:
  “Honestly, the easiest, quickest, most assured way to do this is to join a religious community... There is no quicker way to get actual real community that is in person, that is meaningful, that is full of connections.” – Abigail Shrier (28:04)

Key Timestamps

• 03:15 – Karol opens the main topic: decline in marriage and overall relationships
• 11:40 – Why Abigail Shrier tackles controversial subjects
• 14:40 – Shrier’s career journey and law background
• 17:33 – Living in California as a journalist
• 18:48 – Shrier’s biggest worry: interpersonal disconnection among the young
• 24:42 – The crisis of friendship and meaningful connections
• 26:22 – Parenting challenges and technology
• 28:04 – Shrier’s “quick fix” for building community: join a religious group
• 28:47 – Advice to her younger self about friendship and authenticity
• 32:17 – Shrier reflects on her books’ impact
• 34:47 – Shrier’s approach to journalistic legacy

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, accessible, and thoughtful, blending concern over cultural shifts with a pragmatic look at solutions like fostering in-person community and authentic relationships. Both Shrier and Markowicz use humor, personal anecdotes, and empathy throughout.

For more, read Abigail Shrier’s books Irreversible Damage and Bad Therapy, or visit her columns at The Free Press.