The Karol Markowicz Show: AI Anxiety, Online Culture & The Future of Human Creativity with Noam Blum

Summary

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The Karol Markowicz Show: AI Anxiety, Online Culture & The Future of Human Creativity

Guest: Noam Blum (CTO of CommentaryMack, podcaster)
Host: Karol Markowitz
Date: May 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Karol Markowicz Show (part of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show), Karol sits down with Noam Blum, multifaceted podcaster and commentator, for a lively, deeply insightful conversation about the cross-currents of online culture, the rapid evolution of AI, and what it means for human creativity and society. Ranging from the challenges of podcasting and social media to the anxiety and opportunities AI brings, the two discuss the fundamental shifts in how we create, connect, and curate authenticity in a tech-saturated world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of "Ambitious Crossover Attempt" & Online Discourse

[03:05–04:38]

• Noam shares the premise of his podcast, which is to explore how seemingly distinct areas (politics, memes, pop culture) increasingly intersect and affect each other online.
  • “Everything crosses over into itself. ...memes that have nothing to do with politics bleed in and out of politics, and controversies that have to do with movies intersect with things like geopolitics in strange ways now.” – Noam Blum [03:14]
• Recurring topics include negative social trends online, the polarization of discourse, and how these impact society.

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2. Podcasting’s Early Days & Online Anonymity

[04:41–08:31]

• Noam discusses his background in sound engineering and the challenges of launching podcasts a decade ago, when tech hurdles kept many voices out.
• Reflects on his anonymous persona "Neon Taster" on (the then-) Twitter, and being humorously “outed” as Ben Shapiro’s father—a running internet meme.
  • “There was a controversy...and someone decided to be funny and sent one of these expose people an email claiming that the username that he was using was me…” – Noam [06:52]
• Karol recalls Noam introducing her to the world of video game streaming, an idea that was foreign and surprising at the time.
• Noam reflects on the appeal of watching, and being watched while gaming:
  • “It’s harder to explain the desire to have people watch you play than it is the desire to watch other people play.” – Noam [08:31]
  • Watching can be about experiencing games vicariously or enjoying a personality’s commentary.

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3. Creativity in the Age of AI

[09:09–11:07]

• Noam identifies as a lifelong creator (music, podcasts, writing, role-playing games) and feels a stronger urge than ever to create things “out of my own brain,” as AI-generated content proliferates.
• Asked if he’s optimistic or pessimistic about AI, Noam says:
  • “Both at the same time, if that makes sense?” – Noam [10:05]
• He lauds AI’s genuine breakthroughs in fields like medicine, referencing DeepMind’s role in solving protein folding:
  • “It already has done things that we spent decades trying to do.” – Noam [10:28]
• Socially, AI’s speed and ubiquity pose risks:
  • Fears around education, with concerns that students using AI force standards for non-users to shift unrealistically.
  • Some colleges combat AI plagiarism by replaying writing process via Google Docs—producing new privacy and authenticity tensions.

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4. AI’s Impact on Education & Social Expectations

[11:07–14:20]

• Noam details how AI pressures peers to conform due to teachers’ expectations about task duration:
  • “...students that don’t use AI are now expected to write a paper in three hours that requires six hours. ...the only reason is because the teachers figure they give this paper all the time and it takes three hours to write. It should take three hours.” – Noam [12:49]
• Karol connects this to “SAT prep inflation”—as some benefits become widespread, they turn from advantage to necessity, which creates cycles of pressure and inequity.

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5. The Acceleration of AI and its Societal Lag

[14:20–15:00]

• Noam notes the accelerating pace of AI development—solutions to AI’s challenges lag behind the problems:
  • “Usually the solutions to problems like this take longer than the problems take to inculcate themselves very deeply.” – Noam [14:29]
  • ChatGPT models and similar tech keep becoming exponentially more capable at a rate society struggles to adjust for.

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6. Personal Growth Through Online Life

[18:08–20:45]

• Noam reflects on his path from anonymity and loneliness after moving to the US, to building a career and personal happiness largely through online connections and personality.
• Karol confesses she never deletes tweets, while Noam admits purging older tweets, not out of cancellation fear, but embarrassment at the window into former versions of himself.
  • “It was mainly because I was embarrassed of myself. …It just felt a little like Twitter was in 2009. It was a different kind of service…” – Noam [20:06]

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7. Privacy, Sharing, and Social Media Nostalgia

[20:45–21:42]

• Karol and Noam reminisce about naive habits like publicly announcing their whereabouts on social media, referencing Foursquare and cautionary tales of oversharing.

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8. The Future: Human-Made as a Status Symbol

[21:42–23:27]

• Five-year prediction:
  • Noam predicts that as AI-generated content explodes, “human-made” will become the new premium and status marker—much like handmade objects post-Industrial Revolution.
  • The market will respond with both authentic creators and scammers vying for legitimacy.
    • “The rise of human made as a concept is going to be something similar to the rise of what handmade was again after the Industrial Revolution...became more exclusive...a status symbol.” – Noam [21:51]
    • There will be growing value (and associated fraud) in labeling content as human-created.
    • Authentication methods (to prove “no AI involved”) will become a vital, possibly contentious issue.

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9. Generational Differences in Spotting AI

[23:23–24:27]

• Karol observes that her children are far more adept at discerning AI from real than she is, part of a generational adaptation to digital realities.
  • “My kids can spot AI...in so many different things that I don’t even consider. ...They’re able to spot it instantly.” – Karol [24:01]
• Noam sees this as a hopeful sign that younger generations will be better “inoculated” against digital manipulation.

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10. Advice: Ground Yourself Beyond Online Life

[24:32–26:02]

• Noam’s top tip:
  • Cultivate relationships and routines outside the digital realm—spend time with significant others, friends, or communities in the real world.
  • “My best advice for people is to find things in your life that take you away from the online environment...You need some kind of check away from what’s going on online to keep yourself centered, to keep yourself grounded.” – Noam [24:46]
  • The most toxic, radicalized behaviors online are often tied to people with no offline respite or outside community.
• Karol reinforces:
  • “Touch grass, go outside, see your actual in real life friends...” [26:14]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Both at the same time, if that makes sense?” – Noam on AI optimism/pessimism [10:05]
• “It’s like asking somebody if the industrial revolution will be good or bad.” – Noam on predicting AI’s societal impact [13:26]
• “The rise of human made as a concept is going to be something similar to the rise of what handmade was again after the Industrial Revolution.” – Noam [21:51]
• “You need some kind of check away from what’s going on online to keep yourself centered, to keep yourself grounded.” – Noam’s life improvement tip [24:46]
• “Touch grass, go outside, see your actual in real life friends...” – Karol [26:14]

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Segment Timestamps

• Brief & Show Intro: [02:42]
• Noam’s Podcasting Philosophy: [03:05–03:44]
• Podcasting’s Early Days & Online Identity: [04:41–08:31]
• The Nature of Watching & Streaming Games: [08:08–09:09]
• Online Creativity vs. AI Outputs: [09:09–10:05]
• AI Opportunities & Anxieties: [10:05–11:43]
• AI in Education—Problems and Fixes: [11:43–14:20]
• Pace of AI Change & Institutional Lag: [14:20–15:00]
• Personal Growth & Twitter Embarrassment: [18:08–20:45]
• Privacy Nostalgia & Social Networks: [20:45–21:42]
• Five-Year Prediction: “Human-Made” as Status: [21:42–23:23]
• Spotting AI Across Generations: [23:23–24:27]
• Best Life Tip (Get Offline, Touch Grass): [24:32–26:02]

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Wrap-Up

This episode explores the profound tensions and evolving strategies that come with digital life—creativity, authenticity, and connection are all being renegotiated in the age of AI. Noam and Karol provide wit, wisdom, and practical advice for staying grounded as technology continues to reshape our world.

Related podcasts:

• [Ambitious Crossover Attempt]
• [Commentary Magazine Podcast]
  (both produced by Noam Blum)

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Transcript

[Noam Blum]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Hi, and welcome back to the Carol markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Noam Blum, CTO of CommentaryMack and producer of the Commentary magazine podcast and the ambitious crossover attempt podcast. Hi, Noam. So nice to have you on.

[Noam Blum]

Hi, Carol. How's it going?

[Carol Markowitz]

Good. The ambitious crossover attempt. How ambitious and how much crossing over do you do?

[Noam Blum]

Well, it's the. Yes. That my. My podcast, I know it's a. It's a mouthful of a name, but basically, when. When my co host Jen and I were thinking about a podcast, we just thought about how, especially online, everything crosses over into itself. And now especially. And memes that have nothing to do with politics bleed in and out of politics, and controversies that have to do with movies intersect with things like geopolitics in strange ways now. And it's. It's a podcast where we try to. To kind of cross over all of these topics, and we're especially interested in things that kind of fill all of those boxes.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love it. Do you have, like, specific topics that you seem to return to again and again?

[Noam Blum]

Well, these days, a lot of it has do with negative trends, social trends online, and how a lot of society and discourse is harmed by some of these negative trends. For sure. That's definitely. I think it'll be a theme of our. Our conversation today, for sure.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. How did you get into this thing of ours?

[Noam Blum]

Well, that's a. That's.

[Carol Markowitz]

I was thinking about this. I've known you so long, I knew. I knew you when you were Ben Shapiro's father.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah, exactly. Well. And so you know what? I think that also kind of leads into the. The. The first question that you sent me about what it is that I'm proud of.

[Carol Markowitz]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's the last 10 minutes. You don't have the gun here. No.

[Noam Blum]

Okay.

[Carol Markowitz]

I'm already.

[Noam Blum]

I'm already breaking the rules.

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[Carol Markowitz]

What do you think this is? This is chaos over here.

[Noam Blum]

We have a system because it is sort of tied into. To. To my life story in the past decade. And I. I mean, I kind of. Because I came to the States to study sound engineering and music production in the early days of podcasting becoming a thing that you could just do. The biggest bottleneck to people was still the technical aspect. Everybody had a microphone, everybody had a bunch of opinions, but nobody knew how to record themselves. Exactly. And where to upload it. And so that's where I came in. And I think I have been producing and Being on small podcasts for well over a decade at this point. Podcasts that nobody listened to, obviously, because I think that's true for most podcasts.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Noam Blum]

I read somewhere that if you get something in the neighborhood of a thousand downloads, you're in the top 10% of all podcasts.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's great. Yeah. I mean, a thousand downloads, I think for a lot of the podcasts would be maybe a reach. It's. It's. It's just a very populated field. It's hard to break out and hard to be unusual. It reminds me a lot of the blogger days, where a lot of blogs, you know, sprouted at the same time and only some of them survived, which I think is probably what's going to happen with podcasts as well.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah. Yeah. What is going to be the next thing that everybody does? It's going to be the brain chip that broadcasts your thought. Everybody's own. Whose AI agent has the best takes.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Right. So our joke about you being Ben Shapiro's father, you used to be anonymous on what was then Twitter. Your name was Neon Taster. I mean, it still is, but it still is.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. And somebody. I don't remember how the story went, but somebody outed you as Ben Shapiro's father.

[Noam Blum]

Yes.

[Carol Markowitz]

Can you confirm or deny it this time, whether you are.

[Noam Blum]

Yes, I can. I can. I can neither confirm nor deny. And funny enough, when I. I actually met Ben Shapiro's father, and the first thing that he said.

[Carol Markowitz]

Spider Man.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah. The first thing that he said to me was, I. I've known you since before you me. And you're. You're right, it doesn't matter who started the rumor. But the. The. The thing is, I got caught up in a totally different controversy, oddly, which was that there was a controversy at the time about Ben's father being a ghost writer for his website or something along those lines, and someone decided to be funny and sent one of these expose people an email claiming that the username that he was using was me, which led to this long standing initially accusation, but later meme about me being Ben's father, even though I am actually older than. Than Ben.

[Carol Markowitz]

You were the first person I knew who told me that people watch you play video games. Like I had never heard of that before. Do you still do that?

[Noam Blum]

I don't. Not regularly. I. Once in a while, I still do it. I just. I decided at some point, because I did try right before to do it.

[Carol Markowitz]

What was that called?

[Noam Blum]

Properly? It's. Well, it's Twitch streaming. I mean, that's a website. There are more people do it on YouTube now. There's a couple of competing services, but I found that I did not have the temperament to do it all the time. People, you need to be in a good mood and you need to be, you need to be on, so to speak.

[Carol Markowitz]

So you're talking to them. I guess I, I didn't really quite understand that My, my boys sometimes will be like, I want to, you know, I want to let people watch me play video games. And I'm always like, absolutely not. But also, who would want to watch you play video games? But I think of you at times like that and I'm like, I remember somebody who was an early pioneer in this watching me play video games genre.

[Noam Blum]

It's harder to explain the desire to have people watch you play than it is the desire to watch other people play. I remember explaining this to my grandparents years ago by saying, yeah, by saying it like this. There are many video games that come out and it involves a lot of money and even more time to play through them all. And sometimes it's just easier, especially if there's a game you're interested in. But let's say it's a really scary game and you're interested in it, but you don't think that you have the temperament to play a really scary game. It might be easier for you to watch someone whose comments while they're playing are also entertaining as a way to consume that content.

[Carol Markowitz]

I see. What would you be doing if it wasn't this?

[Noam Blum]

Wow. I mean, maybe that or maybe some form. It would, it would definitely involve some form of, of creating something.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah. I dabble in all forms of it. I, I come sort of from a music, music creation background, but I, I write a little and I play like tabletop role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons and stuff like that, which involves a lot of creating and imagining things. And I, I'm always trying to, to put stuff out there. I think, especially going forward where a lot of people's output in the world is going to be the result of them talking to an AI.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Noam Blum]

I feel even more so than ever an urge to just make stuff that comes out of my own brain.

[Carol Markowitz]

Are you optimistic on AI or pessimistic?

[Noam Blum]

Both at the same time, if that makes sense? Because I do think that in the background behind a lot of the, the ongoing sort of discour, there are good things that are happening with it in fields that are less glitzy and get a little less press. But in medicine, things like medical research and other applications. It already has done things that we spent decades trying to do. This company, DeepMind, I don't know if you heard about them, but they were originally, they. They designed an AI that played Go, the. The Asian board game Go, and it beat their, like the. One of the most storied champions game of all time, a Korean. There's actually a documentary about this on YouTube. Beat him. And after that, they turned towards a problem that has t. That scientists have been trying to tackle a lot. The problem of protein folding. And their AI did you know, much better than decades of efforts before. And they won a Nobel Prize for it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Noam Blum]

And so, sure, there's optimism there. But again, on the kind of social level that we all see, there are certainly a lot of bad things going on. And it's not just bots and generative slop. There are a lot of other things that happen. Like in education, for example, I've been hearing a lot of grumblings about things that go on in colleges now because of the. The ubiquity of AI use. And it's not just it. It, in a way, it. It brings people down who don't use it because.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Noam Blum]

So beyond the fact that we're afraid that people will leave colleges unqualified because they let AI do all the work.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Noam Blum]

Colleges now, because if they don't have a good way to track this, and they actually do in some instances, I've seen some methods of trying to ensure that your students don't write their paper with AI that are actually really good.

[Carol Markowitz]

Really?

[Noam Blum]

But yeah, yeah. For example, like some classes require students to just write their entire paper in a Google Doc and then you can replay the whole process, writing and revising.

[Carol Markowitz]

And you know, I get it, I get it. But if I was in college right now, the way that I write is so ridiculous. Even the way I wrote in college, the way I write now, I am like, sometimes I'll put like three or four words together and then three or four more words or like one word. Like I. It. It's very my. I do not have a system that I want anybody to see.

[Noam Blum]

I don't know if they. If they examine your process as much as they make sure that you didn't just kind of copy and paste in a complete paper into the Google Doc and then called it done.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right. I understand that. But.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah, but beyond that, I don't need

[Carol Markowitz]

anybody seeing how I do it.

[Noam Blum]

But beyond that, if you don't have good methods to track, what ends up happening is your bar of Expectations of what students can accomplish, how long it can take them to write a paper or something is skewed because they use AI and therefore students that don't use AI are now expected to write a paper in three hours that requires six hours. And the only reason is because the teachers figure they give this paper all the time and it takes three hours to write. It should take three hours. Right. And so that those are like hidden problems of this that have that an impact on people who make a conscious decision to not use these tools.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, that's really tough.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah. And I, I don't know what to say about it. Right. It's like, it's like, it's like asking somebody if the industrial revolution will be good or bad.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right, right. Yeah. I, I, I, I'm sort of in the same place. I'm generally optimistic. I see it as like when the Internet came out and everybody thought that that could end a lot of, you know, businesses as we know it, but it actually opened all these other doors. And I, I problem of when some people do it, everybody has to do it. I see that in so many different places in life. Like, you know, the best students still get SAT prep because everybody does it. So if you're the sucker who only has a 1500, why wouldn't you get the SAT prep to get you up 50 or 100 points like everybody else? And it's just this spiral of when everybody does it, when some people do it, everybody has to do it. Is, it's tough.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and I, I do, but I, and I do think there is, there are attempts to, to reckon with this, but usually the solutions to problems like this take longer than the problems take to inculcate themselves very deeply.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Noam Blum]

And this technology is extremely fast moving, like even more even on the level that we've grown accustomed to where you would say, wow, 10, 15 years ago nobody had an iPhone and now everybody has an iPhone. It's accelerating to the point where the new model of ChatGPT is X amount of times smarter and more capable than just the previous generation of that same piece of software.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

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[Carol Markowitz]

All right, tell me what the thing you are most proud of in your life. We'll just do a hard transition.

[Noam Blum]

Sure. No, that's fine. And you know, as I. Because you asked me about podcasting and, And I do think that the thing I am proud of most is that I did manage because I came here at age 25. I was born in Israel, I grew up in Israel. I came here to go to college. And after that I found myself stuck in a situation where I was aimless, I was friendless to a certain extent. I was in a job that I didn't like and wasn't in the field that I came here to study.

[Carol Markowitz]

What was the field?

[Noam Blum]

Well, so music production and engineering, so audio. And I was, I was very interested in doing post production for film and tv and almost most made it into that world and it. And then didn't and ended up having to take a different job and spent many years kind of trapped. And the fact that I was sort of able on my own to dig myself out of that into a career. And I met my fiance through the same, essentially the same method, which was like you said, I leveraged my Twitter personality into jobs connections and then later when my real name came out, I decided to take advantage of that and just made that my brand essentially. And you know, now I'm in. In a good place because of that. And that's. I'm very.

[Carol Markowitz]

Twitter feed is what you're, what you're gonna tell us.

[Noam Blum]

I mean, that's it. And it's funny because what I'm gonna say in a second will contradict that entirely. But I mean, I guess you could, I guess you could reduce it to that in a strange way.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, I, I don't mind that. I think I Twitter feed. I've never deleted. You know, people mass delete their, their old tweets. Like, I mean, are they a little embarrassing? Sure. But I, I am very much like, I like to look back at what I said, you know, in 2010 or something, and, and see, see what I was tweeting back then. I have no, no issue with that.

[Noam Blum]

I, I actually did go in and delete old tweets of mine and it wasn't for fear that something I said would come up. It was mainly because I was embarrassed of myself. I was a different kind of person back then, and some of it was a window to my psyche at the time because again, I was just some anonymous person with 500 followers. And so I would tweet some of my Very sure who among us, you know.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, right, right.

[Noam Blum]

And so I didn't love for that stuff to still be out there again, not because I felt like somebody would have ammo on me. It just felt a little like Twitter was in 2009. It was a different kind of service to you. People use it in very different ways.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's like reading your old journal. It's like a little embarrassing. You know, I used to make like on Twitter I'd be like, I'm go, I lived in Manhattan, Manhattan. And I'd be like, I'm going to Brooklyn. Like, you know, like the whole world needs to know, in case you're wondering. Also, my husband totally cut off the putting any kind of private information like where I'm going or what I'm doing or any of that. Or completely cut that off when we got together. He's like, I can't live with you announcing. Remember Foursquare, where everybody would just tell everybody like, oh, sure, where they were.

[Noam Blum]

I'm the mayor of McDonald's.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, he's awful.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Just like letting the whole world know where we were at all times.

[Noam Blum]

Yeah, yeah, I, I, yeah. I mean, again, I was in College in 2009 and people were posting that they were going on spring break on Facebook and having their apartments broken into. We had a public safety notice from our college. Don't post that. You're going out of town for spring break.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, smart, smart. They were be, you know, before their time. Give us a five year out prediction and it could be about, about anything at all.

[Noam Blum]

Okay, so again, on theme of what we were talking about here and the rise of AI and generative AI, the thing that I am predicting is that the rise of human made as a concept is going to be something similar to the rise of what handmade was again after the Industrial Revolution, right. Where mass produced, simple things became a thing that everybody had. The idea that a carpenter built your chair, carved it out of wood and stuff became more exclusive. It became to some extent a status symbol.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Noam Blum]

And I think that that is going to happen. In fact, the other day I saw, I already saw my first scam that claimed that label and was later found out to maybe not be entirely forthright about it.

[Carol Markowitz]

So they claimed what label?

[Noam Blum]

Oh, that there, the art that this project was using in their project was made and it came out that it was not. And so that means that already an exploitable market of people who are looking for that kind of label and they're already grifters trying to scam them by. By selling them AI slop. So fascinating. Yeah. And it'll be interesting to see what methods of verification exist, because when you can fake a video, then a video of somebody building a chair can also be faked. And so it'll be very interesting to see what signifiers that something has no AI and it will become acceptable to people as essentially proof that a person made it.

[Carol Markowitz]

So interesting. I'm wondering how they could do the signifiers. I mean, I guess there'll be a way. But I have to say that my mom falls for AI at a much, much higher rate than I do. And then I fall for AI at a much, much higher rate than my kids do and so on. I think that my kids can spot AI I mean, in just, just so many different things that I don't even consider. Like, oh, why would that be AI? And, you know, they're very good at seeing right through it.

[Noam Blum]

That's good. That's. At least, that's good news. Right? We want the kids who grew up in this atmosphere to be better inoculated against it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. I mean, and they have that natural kind of vision for it. At least I think my kids do. I don't know, maybe that's. I think all kids do because I think that they just could tell when something is not made by a human and it's not natural and like, it's the sheen, but it's other things that they look for. You know, I, I check for like six fingers. They don't even need that. You know, they're like, they're able to spot it instantly.

[Noam Blum]

Good, good. That's good. They're, they're, they have good tools for the life ahead of them.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's a start, for sure. Noam, I've loved this conversation. You are funny and interesting, and I really have always enjoyed talking to you. Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Noam Blum]

Okay, so after, again, after praising my tw feed and talk about online life and stuff, I do think that my best advice for people is to find things in your life that take you away from the online environment. You know, a significant other. But it can also be friend groups. It could be some sort of environment that you're out of the house, in and around other people. A gym, a, you know, a dog park. If you have a dog, go to the dog park to hang out with people who are dog people. You need some kind of check away from what's going on online to keep yourself centered, to keep yourself grounded. And, and to be able to walk away from it when things seem to upsetting and angering. And I do feel like a lot of the extremely toxic people that you see online and some of the radicalization that happens is the result of people not having a way out of that and being trapped. And when it gets bad when, when, when you open Twitter and it's nothing antisemitism and war and, and, and just people being gross, you need to be able to go do something else. Otherwise you're just trapped there in that sort of prison with all that poisonous gas in the air. It's, it's not good.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that way of describing it. That's exactly what it is. You're trapped there unless you have that outlet out the door. I, I fully, fully support that as a way of bettering your life. Touch grass, go outside, see your actual in in real life Friends, he is no on bloom out at the ambitious Crossover Attempt podcast. Also listen to the Commentary magazine podcast that he produces. It is excellent. Thanks so much.

[Noam Blum]

Thank you Carol.

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