The Karol Markowicz Show: Author Joel Engel on Storytelling, Society, and the Rising Tide of Anti-Semitism

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Hosted by: Carol Markowitz
Guest: Joel Engel
Release Date: November 5, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features journalist and author Joel Engel, whose career spans nearly 40 nonfiction books across subjects like true crime, history, law, and adventure. Host Carol Markowitz and Engel dive into the art and impulse of storytelling, Joel’s unconventional career path, and reflections on American society—particularly the alarming surge in antisemitism post-October 7th, 2025. Their conversation also touches on political polarization, civic identity, and personal values.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Joel Engel’s Writing Journey

[02:58–07:38]

• Origin Story:
  • Engel describes his lifelong desire to write, inspired by literature and a yearning for adventure.
  • After college and reading Hemingway's A Movable Feast, Engel planned to seek stories in Paris, only for love and heartbreak to direct him elsewhere.
  • He never wrote about his Parisian adventures, instead moving to journalism and then to books by chance when an agent noticed his work.

Notable Quote:

“If you want to be a writer, you have to have things to write about…I figured, I’ll go to Paris, I’ll have some adventures and I’ll have something to write about. Well, what happened was I fell in love with a woman who had a really beautiful voice…She broke my heart.”
— Joel Engel [04:00]

• On Never Specializing:
  • Engel’s repertoire is broad because of his interest in human stories rather than genre or subject focus.

[06:17–08:59]

• Favorite Works:
  • LA56: A book Engel wrote about a racist police investigation in 1956 Los Angeles, based on a compelling true story told by detective Danny Galindo.
  • By Duty Bound: Co-authored with Ezell Ware Jr., chronicling the rise of a Black man from Jim Crow Mississippi, his dream of flying and becoming a general, and a daring Vietnam story.

Notable Quote:

“He may have as well have said, I want a herd of unicorns…But he accomplished both of those in his life.”
— Joel Engel [07:42], about Ezell Ware Jr.

Plans, Life, and “Plan B”

[08:59–10:49]

• Engel recounts never having a “Plan B”—he just focused on writing.
• Anecdote: Refers to an episode of This American Life about Plan B’s, featuring the infamous kidnapper of Frank Sinatra Jr., Barry Keenan, whose kidnapping was his own "plan B" after losing his brokerage career.

Notable Quote:

“I had blinders on and I kept my Plan A.”
— Joel Engel [09:27]

The Rising Tide of Antisemitism & Societal Division

[16:05–19:42]

• Engel feels a responsibility to write about antisemitism, particularly after October 7th. His Wall Street Journal piece captured the shock among American Jews at the eruption of public Jew-hatred.
• Markowitz was less surprised, having documented antisemitic violence in NY long before, suggesting broader societal blind spots.

Notable Quotes:

“If you had told me a week prior that…there would be pro-Hamas ‘From the river to the sea’ demonstrations after something like that, I would have thought you were out of your mind.”
— Joel Engel [17:03]

“I knew the only reason I wasn’t being attacked was because I didn’t look the part.”
— Carol Markowitz [17:55]

• Engel confesses he underestimated how widespread antisemitism had become, especially among seemingly ordinary neighbors.

[19:42–21:38]

• They discuss the “horseshoe theory” (left and right extremes meeting), and how fringe support for violence isn’t limited to antisemitism.
• Comparison to 1968: Engel observes the center once held even amidst division, but now doubts if a cultural, normative "center" exists at all.

American Politics, California vs. Florida & Civic Trust

[21:38–25:32]

• Markowitz and Engel joke about moving to “saner” places (like Florida), especially as policies and governance in California and New York have frustrated both.
• They note the importance of the collective sanity of the populace over individual politicians; Markowitz trusts Floridians more than elected officials.
• Engel expresses zero confidence in California’s electorate, except for its weather and geography.

Notable Quote:

“The only thing I have faith in here is the weather and the topography.”
— Joel Engel [25:24]

Family, Legacy, and Personal Pride

[25:36–27:31]

• Engel’s proudest accomplishment: his 44-year marriage and his daughter, whom he describes as “a wonderful, light-on-the-world” person.

Notable Quote:

"To my wife, Fran, who has endured the click clacking of a keyboard load these many years without ever telling me to get a real job."
— Joel Engel [25:51], referencing his book dedication

Predictions on Polarization and the Future of America

[27:31–30:52]

• Engel predicts continued fragmentation driven by social media’s centrifugal force, which “drives us further apart.”
• The possibility of a “civil war” no longer fits the old North-South binary; division is now neighbor vs. neighbor.
• Both agree the so-called “national divorce” is improbable, as societies and people change; the real danger is America’s vulnerability in division.

Notable Quote:

“I’m not optimistic…Social media is a centrifuge and it’s driving—spinning faster and driving further apart. There is no countervailing centripetal force to bring anyone together.”
— Joel Engel [27:41]

“I don’t know how you come back from ‘I want you dead’.”
— Joel Engel [30:31]

Life Advice from Joel Engel

[35:39–37:17]

• On Self-Reflection: Keep a simple journal tracking main daily events and moods; review every 90 days for patterns and self-correction.
• On Expectations: When seeking customer service, expect disappointment—protect your emotions by bracing for difficulty.

Notable Quote:

“Don’t expect it to go well. Expect that it will go badly and that way you won’t have given too much emotion to the disappointment.”
— Joel Engel [37:01]

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Joel’s Paris Adventure and Heartbreak: [04:00]
• On Why He Writes Widely: “If it was a good story and I thought I could tell it, I did.” [05:04]
• On Antisemitism After October 7: “It was like on October 7th, it was like an on button was pushed.” [18:21]
• Political Frustration: “That this governor thinks he actually has a chance to become president is really one of the most mortally funny things I can think of.” — Joel on Gavin Newsom [22:49]
• Perspective on Division: “There’s no countervailing force to bring anyone together.” [27:41]
• Advice on Life and Expectations: [35:55–37:17]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:58] Introduction to Joel Engel and his career
• [03:36] Early writing aspirations and Paris story
• [06:17] Joel’s favorite books and why
• [08:59] The Plan A/Plan B conversation
• [16:05] Writing about antisemitism and the impact of October 7th events
• [19:42] Societal division and the center no longer holding
• [21:38] California vs. Florida, politics, and sanity
• [25:36] What Joel is most proud of (family and legacy)
• [27:31] Engel’s predictions for America’s polarization
• [35:39] Joel’s best life tips

Tone and Style

Conversational, candid, sometimes humorous, with a prevailing sense of unease about recent social and political shifts. Engel is reflective, weaving anecdotes with observations, and Markowitz matches with wit and serious engagement.

Final Takeaway

This episode blends Joel Engel’s storytelling talent and sharp observations with the raw anxiety of rapidly changing societal norms, especially the resurgence of antisemitism and eroding civic trust. The discussion is at once personal and political, offering both stories and strategies for navigating turbulent times.