The Karol Markowicz Show: Clay Travis on Media, Manhood, and the Future of Family

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – The Karol Markowicz Show
Episode: Clay Travis on Media, Manhood, and the Future of Family
Host: Karol Markowicz
Guest: Clay Travis
Release Date: September 3, 2025

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Overview

In this engaging episode of The Karol Markowicz Show, Karol sits down with Clay Travis—founder of Outkick and co-host of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show—to discuss his unconventional career path, thoughts on modern media, concerns about the evolving landscape of masculinity and family, and advice for young men in America. The conversation blends personal anecdotes, cultural criticism, and actionable life advice, all delivered with warmth and candor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining “Making It”

• Karol revisits a prior interview [04:08]: Last time Clay was on, his answer to “Have you made it?” surprised listeners who see his life as highly successful.
• Clay’s Perspective:
  • Rejects the idea of a single “arrival” point.
  • “To me, you either are building or you’re maintaining, and I like to build.” (Clay Travis, [05:15])
  • Stresses continual growth (“I don’t expect that I know everything. I hope that every day I learn a little bit better and get a little bit better at everything.”)
  • Values gratitude without complacency: grateful for his family and success, but always seeking new challenges ([07:02]).

2. Personal Life & Gratitude

• Reflection on Fortune:
  • Expresses deep gratitude for his family (“I’ve got three happy, healthy kids…” [07:02]), his wife of 21 years, and improved financial stability.
  • Maintains a hunger for personal evolution: “If we had this conversation when I was fifty-six, I wouldn’t just be in the same place now that I was when I was forty-six.” ([07:31])

3. Career Pivot: Law to Media

• Why He Left Law:
  • Found legal practice tedious and slow-moving (“You could look at an issue and say, okay, this is what we have to figure out… it just took forever.” [08:44]).
  • Preferred solving problems quickly, not drawing them out.
• Alternative Career Fantasy:
  • Imagines a “multiverse” version of himself as a creative writing professor ([09:29])
  • Still considers himself “more as a writer than a radio or TV guy” ([10:09]).

4. Worries about the Next Generation of Men

• Primary Worry:
  • “I worry about my boys… probably ninety-five percent of my concerns to the extent that I have them, if I have nightmares, it involves something happening to one of my boys.” (Clay Travis, [11:11])
• Societal Concern:
  • Discusses a disconnect between men and women, worrying modern culture is “telling men to be effeminate versions of themselves and women to be masculine versions of themselves.”
  • Warns of declining marriage and family formation—for both men and women.
    • Cites trends: women using sperm donors for motherhood, men forming pseudo-relationships with women online (OnlyFans, AI) ([12:09]).
  • “We have made human interaction very disposable… and in some ways I think female empowerment has actually led to a world in which men’s fantasies are fulfilled and we get no commitment and everybody is less happy.” ([13:44])

5. Collapse of Friendships and AI Relationships

• Karol’s Analysis:
  • Highlights the decline in deep, real-life friendships (“Fifty years ago you had like nine friends and now people have like two…” [15:04])
  • Raises concern about normalization of AI “relationships” ([15:04])
• Clay’s Agreement:
  • AI-fueled “relationships” deepen the divide and comparison among young people, referencing social comparison and mental health ([15:37]).
  • Quotes Jordan Peterson: “Don’t compare yourself to other people, compare yourself today to where you were yesterday and think about getting better yourself.” ([17:55])
  • Explains why this matters to his “growth mindset” philosophy ([18:02]).

6. New Book Preview: “Balls”

• Premise:
  • Subtitled: “Sports fans, young men, and Trump—how they won the 2024 election.” ([22:23])
  • Explores the disengagement of young men—why fewer are graduating college, how they’re being left behind, and what can be done.
  • Argues sports are one of the last trusted institutions: “The last real source of authority that everybody trusts in America is the scoreboard.” ([23:16])
• Significance of Sports:
  • Sports can bring people together even when they disagree (“You don’t have to agree but, you’re like, hey, I speak a common language with this guy…” [23:54]).

7. Advice to His 16-Year-Old Self (and His Sons)

• No Regrets & Embrace Hardship:
  • “Don’t change anything because I like where I am […] If you go back and worry about trying to remake things, you miss the lessons that you learned along the way and you aren’t the person you are today.” ([24:50])
  • Life’s hardships build toughness and resilience, which are essential for growth. ([25:44])
  • “You have to let kids fail too because failure isn’t a sign of ultimate failure. It means that you’re trying to do something hard…” ([26:46])
• Effort Over Results:
  • Encourages his children to focus on effort, not just outcomes ([26:51]).
  • Warns against chasing money over fulfillment, but acknowledges practicality ([28:52]).
  • “All you can control in life is your effort… don’t let money be that guide. If you love coaching football… be the best high school football coach on the planet.” ([27:41])

8. Actionable Life Tips

• Best Life Improvement Tip:
  • “Sleep. I think it’s like the number one thing…” (Clay Travis, [31:21])
  • Advocates for 8 hours of sleep; manages stress and promotes performance.
• Bonus Tip:
  • “Walk when you talk on the phone… The walk passes faster, you’re getting exercise, you’re moving, it’s healthy…” ([32:09])

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Arrival and Growth:
  “When you start thinking you’ve made it, you kind of rest on your laurels. I’m always working, I’m always trying to find something new…” – Clay Travis ([05:35])

• On Dissatisfaction with Law:
  “…it was almost like the job is to be the problem… and I wanted to get things solved and move on.” – Clay Travis ([08:44])

• On Modern Relationships:
  “We have made human interaction very disposable and in some ways I think female empowerment has actually led to a world in which men’s fantasies are fulfilled and we get no commitment and everybody is less happy.” – Clay Travis ([13:44])

• On Social Comparison:
  “Comparison is the thief of joy in many ways… Don’t compare yourself to other people, compare yourself today to where you were yesterday…” – Clay Travis citing Jordan Peterson ([17:55])

• On Parenting and Failure:
  “You have to let kids fail too, because failure isn’t a sign of ultimate failure. It means that you’re trying to do something hard…” – Clay Travis ([26:46])

• Actionable Wisdom:
  “The best thing you can do is get eight hours of uninterrupted sleep almost across the board because it allows you to deal with the slings and arrows of daily life a little bit better than you otherwise would.” – Clay Travis ([31:21])

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Timestamps for Main Segments

• [04:08] – Has Clay “made it”? Revisiting previous interview
• [05:15] – Clay on building vs. maintaining and growth mindset
• [07:02] – Balancing gratitude and ambition
• [08:44] – Why Clay Travis left law
• [09:29] – Alternate life as a creative writing professor
• [11:11] – Clay’s primary worries: his sons and the state of manhood
• [12:09] – Societal trends: disposable human connection
• [13:44] – Impact of cultural changes on happiness
• [15:04] – The collapse of real friendships (Karol)
• [17:55] – The danger of social comparison
• [22:23] – Clay’s new book preview: “Balls”
• [23:16] – Why sports matter as a social institution
• [24:50] – Advice to his 16-year-old self: embrace hardship
• [26:51] – What he tells his sons: effort, not just results
• [27:41] – Fulfillment over income; the danger of chasing money
• [31:21] – #1 life tip: sleep; bonus: walk while talking
• [32:09] – Closing gratitude and encouragement

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Conclusion

This episode dives deep into what it means to “make it,” the challenges facing young men and families, the societal effects of technology and AI on relationships, and the value of continual self-improvement. Clay Travis’s practical advice—paired with honest self-assessment and cultural critique—makes for an episode rich with insight for listeners seeking guidance on career, parenting, and modern life.

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Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Carol Markowitz]

Hi and welcome back to the carol markowitz show on iheartradio my guest today is the founder of outkick the co host of the clay travis and buck sexton radio show and the founder of the podcast network which platforms the carol markowitz show welcome clay travis.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you for having me i apologize the lights are off in my studio so if i look like i'm in a cave just pretend i'm batman i.

[Carol Markowitz]

Feel like it's a perfect vibe actually so you have a lot of podcasts on the clay and buck podcast network i have two of those podcasts and one of the things i do on the show and i don't expect you to know it is i ask all of my guests a set of three questions and i switch up my questions at my yearly anniversary mark two year anniversary is coming up in october the first time you came on the show you actually caused a little bit of a sensation with the answers to one of your questions you are my second ever guest ever and the three questions i asked in my first season one of the questions was do you think that you've made it and you said no and i had multiple people write into me i had listener named anna wrote in how the heck does clay travis not think he's made it his life seems set another listener actually also named clay wrote in and said if clay travis hasn't made it how can any of us say that we have to be fair you said in some ways yes but in other ways no do you stand by that answer yeah.

[Clay Travis]

Because i think when you say i've made it it suggests that you're at a final destination and i don't think i'm at a final destination to me you either are building or you're maintaining and i like to build i like to try to create new things i like to try to go to places that i haven't been before and so to me when you say oh i've made it it's as if you're trying to maintain where you already are and i think there's more opportunities out there and i think there's things that i can be better at and so i guess that's kind of indicative of my idea or ideal growth mindset you know i don't expect that i know everything i hope that every day i learn a little bit better and get a little bit better at everything and so i think when you start thinking you've made it you kind of rest on your laurels i'm always working i'm always trying to find something new make sure i'm not missing something and so i still yeah i don't think i've made.

[Carol Markowitz]

It interesting so it's funny because i couldn't find some of the other emails that people dm me people messaged me on instagram i don't know but one of them specifically referenced he has a hot wife and it was considered that as part of the package and so it's not just about career i think people look at touchwood your life and they think clay travis has it pretty.

[Clay Travis]

Good look i mean i do feel very fortunate i think it's important to start off each day to the extent that people need life advice for me which i don't know if it's a.

[Carol Markowitz]

Great thing this is a show about life advice be ready to give some.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah look you can be grateful for what you have and also aspire to more and so i have a great deal of gratitude i've got three happy healthy kids that seem to be doing pretty well thriving even i've got a wife who tolerates me that i've been married to for twenty one years and i like to think that we're happy maybe happier now than we have been in you know early days of marriage and i think certainly there were way more challenges in my life in terms of financially in terms of being able to know you're going to pay your mortgage when i was younger but i would like to think i'm forty six now i would like to think that when you if we had this conversation when i was fifty six that i wouldn't just be in the same place now that i was when i was forty six and there are positives and negatives that come with that you probably could say hey dial back do less but in my mind i'm always trying to do more trying to grow what i'm doing so i really don't think that i quote unquote made it i guess if you use as the standard hey are you financially secure are you happy yes but i don't think that i'm finished or that if you again if we talked in ten years i don't think i'd be happy if i were doing only the exact same things that i've done now there's still lots of things i'd like to achieve so.

[Carol Markowitz]

You went to law school you were going to be a lawyer you were a lawyer actually for a little while what made you switch to media it.

[Clay Travis]

Moves too slow and i think that was the reason for me that practicing law wasn't that satisfying because you could look at an issue and say okay this is what we have to figure out this is what we have to decide and along the way it just took forever and so much of being a litigator is just a procedural battle and it wasn't particularly fun and i didn't think it was intellectually stimulating in a way that actually led to problems getting solved it was almost like the job is to be the problem the job is to be the roadblock and just make it drag on as long as possible and i wanted to get things solved and move on did you.

[Carol Markowitz]

Have a plan c if it wasn't being a lawyer and it wasn't being.

[Clay Travis]

In media i thought and i still think this is probably an ideal world and there's probably in the marvel multiverse you have kids you probably are familiar with the marvel multiverse there probably is a world where i was a creative writing teacher at a college i really love studying writing teaching creative writing i got an mfa in creative writing in addition to the jd i taught at vanderbilt university while i was doing that and when i was in college the courses that i loved the most were the creative writing classes i liked being in a small group sitting around everybody reading stories analyzing them giving feedback i love that reading other great writers so i think there's a world where i'm not in the public arena really in any way i just kind of sit back and work on trying to do books and i still think of myself more as a writer than a radio or tv guy even though i don't spend as much time writing as much as i used to and so that would probably have been my plan c you know go to a college and just spend the rest of my life kind of teaching undergrads yeah you know how to how to handle creative writing courses i love that i love teaching and i like being in a you.

[Carol Markowitz]

Could definitely still do that as a you know third act seven i don't.

[Clay Travis]

Know that very many universities are that excited to hire clay travis as a.

[Carol Markowitz]

Writing professor things are changing clay anything.

[Clay Travis]

Is true that's a good point maybe.

[Carol Markowitz]

Hillsdale would hire me yeah definitely so.

[Clay Travis]

What do you worry about in life.

[Carol Markowitz]

In life in your day to day.

[Clay Travis]

I worry about my boys i mean you know probably ninety five percent of my concerns to the extent that i have them if i have nightmares it involves something happening to one of my boys and so you know they're seventeen fourteen and ten so they're moving towards adulthood but they're still very young men i was a teenage boy i just know all the stupid things that teenage boys get into the nervousness of having having them behind the wheel driving a car what they or their friends might get into that by far is my number one concern personally now if you want to talk like writ large universe it's that i really think and part of me wants to write a whole book on this do it i think that men and women are just not connecting and i'm worried about where we go as a society when we're telling men to be effeminate versions of themselves and women to be masculine versions of themselves and are we bringing men and women together so i tell my boys and they always roll their eyes they're like dad it's like you know get married and have as many kids as you can because there are lots of great societies italy south korea japan even china which is obviously historically a great society they're not having kids and the population of the world i'm concerned could start to collapse and i think about it in two ways like this is in my new that is coming out in november but carol you probably see this some of the most successful women in the world are now going and picking sperm from men that they never meet to have babies without having husbands right they're just flipping through it like it's the nfl draft and they're like this guy's six two he got a fifteen hundred sat he went to harvard or yale or wherever it is oh i want he's got great blue eyes good hair like i want to have a designer baby with him and they have no actual interaction flip side tons of really pretty girls just go on only fans and thousands of men convince themselves that they have a relationship with these women that are basically just hiring bots or hiring men to pretend to be them to make them think that they have a relationship with a pretty girl like what is going on there both the only fans perspective where men are seeking out women that they don't actually know to have relationships with with and then women are choosing sperm donors because they can't find an actual man that they want to marry and have a family with i'm concerned about what that dynamic is and here's my big picture concern i don't know what you think about this if you went back to nineteen sixty five and you told a rich desirable male hey what is the ideal world for you when you're twenty five years old he basically would design the world that we have right now where you have to have almost no effort you can go look at pictures of girls in bikinis of all ages and just go send them a message and see if they respond and if they don't you're on to the next one we have made human interaction very disposable and in some ways i think female empowerment has actually led to a world in which men's fantasies are fulfilled and we get no commitment and everybody is less happy so those are the things big picture that i think about that are different than maybe you or mine's generation when people still went out to a bar and actually had to have a face to face conversation.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah yeah yeah the real life thing i mean we talk about it a lot on this show you know with the collapse of romantic relationships where like you said women are going and having babies on their own and men are having relationships with onlyfans maybe maybe they're just having relationships with the ai at.

[Clay Travis]

This point point yeah now and that's.

[Carol Markowitz]

Not even a real person right so but the thing is to me it all starts from people aren't even having friendships anymore i talk about this a lot the collapse of friendships where fifty years ago you had like nine friends and now people have like two and it's scary because you don't see that improving you see this ai thing people like oh you can have a relationship with ai and it's accepted it's in the new york times as a headline as if that's normal or real or something to promote i think it's a.

[Clay Travis]

Real problem i agree completely and i think it's only going to get worse because ai is going to get way more reliable i don't know if you've seen this there are tons of now i think fake ai women with onlyfans pages like these are not even real i understand airbrushed women all those things it's not real in some ways but it's a real person and now it's a completely made up girl and the whole dynamic of this is very strange too because i also think you know like back in the day when my age we would try to like get a playboy magazine most guys would never meet a playboy centerfold in their whole life so there was and let's say it's not a centerfold it's jenny mccarthy or it's you know pamela anderson right it's a pretty girl that's on television but you know like you're never gonna really interact with her it seems to me that we have gone from these super high level celebr you know the denise richards of the worlds the carmen electras like we can run through that whole list of like nineties calendar pinups and now whatever the pretty girl is of a sorority she's super famous in that tiny little pond and i think it makes things feel less like i don't think women were threatened by centerfolds back in the day it feels like there's more antagonism now and if you're a young girl what is it thirty percent of teenage girls have thought about killing themselves they can see in a way that you and i couldn't when we were in school oh that person is super rich and they've got this great vacation and they got better clothes and i think it just leads comparison is the thief of joy in many ways and i think jordan peterson has a great line which i think is very helpful where he says don't compare yourself to other people compare yourself today to where you were yesterday and think about getting better yourself and i think there's so much comparison out there that most of us are not going to be drop dead gorgeous most of us are not going to get sixteen hundreds on our sat that doesn't mean you can't aspire to be better at something but when you're only comparing your worst to someone else's best i think it leads to a profound sadness which i think has gripped much of the country at many parts of the day and.

[Carol Markowitz]

Night totally agree and this is why clay travis doesn't think he's made it because he's comparing himself to himself only.

[Clay Travis]

Right well i mean look you can't compare yourself to like i'm never going to have michael jordan's jumping ability i wish i was like it would be super awesome right you can aspire to be the best version of yourself and that is oftentimes way better than what you are today as opposed to trying to aspire to be the best version of someone else this is the way that anyway i kind of think through.

[Carol Markowitz]

It we're going to take a quick break and be right back on the carol markowitz show.

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[Clay Travis]

Shadows in flames primals will fall and.

[Carol Markowitz]

From the blood and ash new gods.

[Clay Travis]

Will rise poppy was never meant to awaken and consequences are devastating stirring ancient.

[Carol Markowitz]

Powers from their slumber transforming casteel and.

[Clay Travis]

Kiran in ways the fates couldn't foresee.

[Carol Markowitz]

The great conspirator has returned to stop the primal of death the gods have.

[Clay Travis]

Awakened harboring blood soaked secrets and every choice can undo everything the primal of blood in both perfect for fans of sarah j maas and rebecca yarros available.

[Carol Markowitz]

September twenty third pre order today what's the new book about give us a.

[Clay Travis]

Preview so it's called balls and in fact this is what the COVID looks like it's very understated yeah yeah and so the concept is sports fans young men and trump how they won the twenty twenty four election but really what it dives into is how are we losing young men and how do we get them to be productive members of society when they're only getting forty percent of college degrees when the average young man is frankly falling far behind the average young woman what can we do and why are men feeling like they are being left behind by so much of society so this is it looks at the election but the prism is using athletics which to me is a great example of this i make the argument in the book that the last real source of authority that everybody trusts in america is the scoreboard everybody trusts that the score is right if somebody steps on the line for a three pointer or doesn't get two feet in for a touchdown in the nfl we all go look at the camera and everybody kind of makes their own decision and most of the time we end up agreeing we don't have a lot of those commonalities anymore and in the book i argue about why sports is important i bet your husband would sign off on this sports is the only thing i can think of where when two people argue they end up liking.

[Carol Markowitz]

Each other more yeah absolutely does it.

[Clay Travis]

Have to agree but you're like hey i speak a common language with this guy and i think that we need more and more of those places in society for sure you don't get into hey what should the tax code be how do we handle ukraine you know it's like hey who's the best quarterback in the nfl let's argue i may not agree with you but at the end of the conversation i'm probably going to like you more and that's the great thing about sports is there a.

[Carol Markowitz]

Chapter on how the tennessee titans suck.

[Clay Travis]

No there is a there is a reference there is a reference in there to the fact that my teams basically exist to make me sad and keep me humble so yes it is unfortunate that i am afflicted with the sad status of being a tennessee titan fan.

[Carol Markowitz]

That'S right you're afflicted yes is a curse what advice would you give your sixteen year old self having to do.

[Clay Travis]

It all over again don't change anything because i like where i am so i was actually having this conversation the other night maybe i could have ended up in a better place than i am but i think if you go back and worry about trying to remake things you miss the lessons that you learned along the way and you aren't the person that you are today i'm imperfect i'm flawed i've got all sorts of things that i got wrong but i like to think that i have learned from them and it's helped to get me to where i am today i think if you had told me how long it would take to make a living in what i do i think it would have been really discouraging and so i think it's important to really be tough and find something that you enjoy pursuing and just try to get better at it and i think a lot of people in this era now they see oh that person's got a million tiktok followers why don't i have a million tiktok followers and i think the answer is well you can't compare yourself to other people are you getting better at whatever you like to do and i like to think that i've gotten a little bit better at media every day and i still have a ceiling that i could aspire to reach in what we do so i think it's just be tough i think if i could go back to sixteen year old me i don't think i was tough enough but i think if you tell yourself oh be tougher you actually have to take those punches you can't really make somebody tougher you have to go through it and you have to get scars and sometimes those scars that's painful right break bones it's tough but i think you have to do it and i think that's why ultimately you have to let kids fail too because failure isn't a sign of ultimate failure it means that you're trying to do something hard and doing hard things is something to aspire to i believe.

[Carol Markowitz]

Is that the same advice you give.

[Clay Travis]

Your boys yeah i tell them i try not to look at result i try to look at effort because effort translates across all medium and sometimes you're really talented at something my oldest son is really really academically gifted but he's in debate and debate is tough and you have to work really hard and a lot of times you lose and the judges might be frustrating and so i was very proud of how hard he works my middle son loves football he has played seventh and eighth grade football they barely throw the football and he plays wide receiver and he is running the route every route like it's fourth down in the super bowl even though they're unlikely to throw to him i love that all you can control in life is your effort you can't control anybody else you can't control any other aspect of life all you individually control is how hard you work at something and so finding something and being willing to work hard and i tell my boys all the time don't let money be that guide hey if you love coaching football and you just want to be a high school football coach be the best high school football coach on the planet you're never going to make a lot of money necessarily but success and pursuit of excellence is a reward in many ways and so i try to tell my kids hey don't think about the financial side of things as much as am i willing to work really hard at this and if you are i think a lot of times the financial side of things and the satisfaction that comes from it follows.

[Carol Markowitz]

That i hope so you know i don't necessarily give that advice i actually tell my kids very often that they're very expensive and that they should try to do something that they'll be able to pay for the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed but that's really good advice too by the way i'm an immigrant i can't be like oh do it in love you know the reason why do something that makes lots of.

[Clay Travis]

Money the reason why i say that is everyone would have told me that i was a moron when i stopped practicing law and started writing about sports everyone would have said you're gonna make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year practicing law what are you doing you're going backwards you've spent all this money on this thing but what i have seen is a lot of people pursue things that they don't like and ultimately if you pursue something that you don't like the people who do like what you're doing are going to be more successful because they're not trying to get out of it right they're not looking at the clock i'm still amazed when i write how i look up and it's been two hours and it feels like it was ten minutes to me right it was captivating to me it's just my brain is engaged and time passes quickly if you love something ultimately people who love something typically are gonna be far more successful than people who don't now hopefully what you love is not basket weaving right there are certain things there are certain things that you could love that are never going to pay enough to be able to make.

[Carol Markowitz]

A living no but you're right unless you're the best basket weaver ever and everybody comes to you for the basket weaving then who knows i watched you.

[Clay Travis]

See the the video of the guy doing the yo yos like i don't know if you went mega viral the guy doing the yo yos may be the greatest person at doing something like i watched him and i'm like i don't like it's the greatest maybe performance i've ever seen i don't know what being the greatest what being the greatest yo yo guy pays you know so there are some things you could pursue where you would have to have an adult conversation with your kid and be like hey you know like i don't know underwater rhythmic gymnastics something cool to do something that you probably don't make a living doing so there is a rational element to it but most things in life you can find a way to make a living doing them there are however a few exceptions where maybe parents need to get involved and say hey we need a way to make.

[Carol Markowitz]

A living associated with this too right well i've loved this conversation clay i think you are so interesting and have so many unique points of view leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve.

[Clay Travis]

Their lives sleep i think it's like the number one thing that like maybe you are well everybody's jealous i'm jealous of people who only need like four.

[Carol Markowitz]

Hours of sleep yeah yeah no there.

[Clay Travis]

Is a tiny subset of the human race that has the genetic capability to sleep like four hours a night and be flawless and great at everything donald trump yeah yeah he's an example and i think i function on a little bit less sleep than most people do but i think i tell my boys all the time the number like the whole idea of hey i'm going to stay up all night and cram and all this stuff i say you're better off getting a good night's sleep studying as long as you can the best thing you can do is get eight hours of uninterrupted sleep almost across the board because it allows you to deal with the slings and arrows of daily life a little bit better than you otherwise would and it's something that you can control i'll give you one more i've only started doing this recently go walk when you talk on the phone like in your neighborhood wherever you are if you're gonna have try to slot a bunch of different calls if you have to do it bang bang bang go walk a couple of miles while you do it the walk passes faster you're getting exercise you're moving it's healthy it's a far better way to go through that process so there's two i.

[Carol Markowitz]

Love those thank you so much for coming on he is clay travis check him out at the clay travis and buck sexton radio show excellent work clay thanks so much can't wait to read.

[Clay Travis]

Your book we're excited that you're in the podcast network keep killing it and we're fans of yours so i hope everybody is giving you all the credit that you deserve too thanks clay.

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