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The Karol Markowicz Show: Community and Identity in America with Gabriella Hoffman
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- [00:00]
Carol Markowitz
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
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Gabriela Hoffman
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- [03:12]
Carol Markowitz
Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Gabriela Hoffman. Gabriela is center for Energy and Conservation Director at the Independent Women's Forum and a freelance journalist. So nice to have you on, Gabriela.
- [03:27]
Carol, it's so wonderful to connect. I'm really thrilled to be on.
- [03:30]
You know, we were talking about this right before we started recording that you and I have a lot of background similarities and yet we've never met in real life, which is really funny because we're in a kind of small conservative world together. What is your background and how did you get to this conservative world place?
- [03:49]
I think very similar to you, although there's a slight difference. When you were immigrating to this country a little before my parents did, you took a similar path. You went to Vienna, then Lispoli.
- [04:00]
We went straight to Ludisboli. Yeah.
- [04:02]
I thought you went to Austria, too. Well, similar, but Ludisboley. And then the United States. My parents went to Austria, Ludisboli slash Rome. Then they had a layover in New York and then California. So slightly different from you, but my parents are from Lithuania, which was also behind the Iron Curtain. And I have a very interesting background. My mother is Lithuanian Catholic. My dad is Lithuanian Jewish. And. And so I guess the best way to describe me is a cashew. But their experiences behind the Iron Curtain, I would say cemented my conservative beliefs. And I think as I got older, learned about politics, really got interested in writing and telling stories because, as you know, Carol, and you're a fellow writer, journalist too, so many things were concealed and hidden and suppressed in both of our ancestral homelands. And I think for me to honor my grandparents who had gone through so much in gulags and other prison camps, and my parents not having as many opportunities as I have had since I was born in the United States, I think the best way to honor my family is to do this writing stuff and now policy analysis that I do for my day job but still also supplement with writing. And I think being kind of a teller of lost stories or underreported stories is what really drew me to conservatism. I've always been a lifelong conservative, but I think I even got more conservative when I went to college and I Hosted David Horowitz, who just passed away, unfortunately, recently, 15 years ago and was a pro Israel advocate. And seeing things just balloon into craziness now relating to Jews on American campuses, growing antisemitism. It's so alarming to me. Like, I saw this when I was a UC San Diego student. And so much of what I think a lot of us have observed can be addressed and fixed. But it's just really scary to see a lot of things that, like, our parents went through and maybe people individually went through. And, you know, that's why I've largely been inclined to, you know, the center right way of life. That doesn't mean I'm not open to different perspectives. I have friends across the different political spectrum. But I just think conservatism is naturally, you know, a good fit for me. But I think also conservatism is, is interpreted differently now these days. So I still kind of view myself as a traditional conservative. You know, you have to adjust and you.
- [06:14]
Same, same.
- [06:15]
Yeah, yeah. You can't, you know, necessarily be resistant to change. But I think there are certain things we ought to maintain. So that's kind of where I fall in my things. But we have a very similar family history. I heard Russian growing up. My life. I have some Russian relatives. I'm very skeptical, you know, of Russia today. And it's very concerning, you know, what's happening there. But, yeah, I think very similar to you. Although I was born in America. Lucky, very lucky. It's a, it's a badge that I wear very proudly. And I don't take it for granted. I think a lot of people do, which is a shame.
- [06:48]
Oh, yeah. It's funny because when I was little, my brother was born in America. His name is Ronald. You know, born in 1982. It wasn't a coincidence. And I desperately wanted to be natural born American. I didn't want to be an immigrant. I didn't want to be born somewhere else. I made up a whole story about where I was born in Brooklyn. And then as I got older, it became cool to not be American. And that was crazy to me. Even in my teen years, even at my, like, height of like, trying to be edgy and different, I still saw America as this just amazing, incredible place. And I know that, like, you probably had the same message growing up that we could have, our lives could have been so different. We could have grown up in the Soviet Union and, and so on. But so it's funny because I'm from Brooklyn. I grew up in Brooklyn, and there's a giant, you know, ex Soviet community there. Was there that community for you in California as well?
- [07:46]
There was actually. And my grandparents settled in Santa Monica, which probably was very similar to Brooklyn, where there were people from Ukraine, Lithuania, Russia and the former Soviet Republic. So I was exposed to a lot of this, you know, Russian, Lithuanian language, but also the food. And being very American, you know, I didn't pick up the language, unfortunately. I heard it most of my life, both Russian and Lithuanian. And I kind of wish I did because I could like, talk behind people's backs. I'm just kidding. But it gives you advantage.
- [08:12]
It's best for, like, when they're talking behind your back. It's great. I've had like, you know, manicurists, like, say stuff about me and not know at all that I understand them.
- [08:21]
Yeah, yeah. So I feel like, you know, being. The struggle for my parents was they were adjusting to a new country and they wanted me to be American. So it was very challenging with my mom working in different corporations as a technological consultant, my dad being a general contractor. They were working, working, working. Of course, very attentive to me and my younger sister. So I didn't really pick up the tongue, but I heard it my whole life. I feel like if I dedicated enough time I could. I could speak both Lithuanian, Russian. Cause I've just been so exposed to it. But there was a lot of community. Maybe not, as I would say, fully integrated like Brooklyn was, because California. So spread out. But you couldn't escape Lithuanian or Russian or Ukrainian. It was there. And actually we did have a lot of friends in the diaspora, whether their parents were from the former Eastern bloc or their first generation and their kids are second generation. So we did have a little bit of it. But I largely had like a very American centered experience still, still tied to, you know, the cultural roots, appreciating the food, the different customs, going to different festivals. So it was a lot of fun. Like the blending of both worlds is really unique. And I think it makes me appreciate being American more. Because if my parents had stayed there, I wouldn't be here, that's for sure. I know that. But I think it also adds to the perspective of being an American. And I think you feel the same way too, where, you know, suppressive societies like the former Soviet Union really hamper your ability to speak freely, to own private property, to pursue your dreams. My dad experienced a lot of anti Semitism institutionally there. And he wanted to be a lawyer and a doctor. Couldn't do it. He came here, he Was able to fulfill his dream of his own general contract or business. Hasn't been perfect. No, no, no thing is perfect. But if he would have stayed there, I felt like he would have, you know, suffered a lot keeping with that. And my mother and her. My mother's family, oddly enough, had even more horrible things happen to them.
- [10:09]
Catholic is not easy to be in the former Soviet Union either.
- [10:12]
No. My grandpa was 18 months in one of the gulags at the Russian Finnish Bo Belamar Canal, which isn't really talked about. It's not. There's not much known about the Gulag system either because the Russians have suppressed it so much. The Kremlin doesn't want people to know about it. But it was one of the most horrific places. I don't know how he survived. He just miraculously did. He had a very tough life. And so like seeing both my Jewish and Catholic relatives go through so much, you know, again, going to our earlier point, like, it makes you appreciate being American. And the fact that sometimes you even meet like kids of fellow diaspora and they're very liberal or they're very much.
- [10:46]
Like embracing absolutely kills me. Yeah, that's very hard for me to see because. So my community in Brooklyn, and it's funny because we used to refer to it as just we're Russian. Like it didn't matter if you were Russian or not even full on, like friends who were from the Ukraine, Ukraine or from Lithuania or from anywhere Belarus, you still referred to our community as the Russian community. And then ever since the war began with Russia and Ukraine, the most recent one, it really has changed the way people refer to themselves. And this almost the entire community is Jewish, so we were never Russian or Ukrainian or Lithuanian or whatever anyway. But it's interesting because the community is very conservative. So I always felt very comfortable being conservative in that world. Even in very liberal Brooklyn, I didn't care because my community was conservative and I didn't care what other people believed. And now seeing some members of the next generation move leftward, it's like, what are you thinking? Like, do you know where we came from? Do you know what the end result of leftism is? But what I wanted to ask you. So my community in New York is very. It has this reputation for being quite name brands and fancy stuff and whatever and not shooting guns and not being outdoorsy and not being hikers. And you sort of are all those things. And I'm curious how it is for you. Do you feel like you fit in in your world? What is it like?
- [12:16]
I'VE never had people question my Lithuanian ancestry or Jewishness because I like guns and fishing and hunting. But it's unusual.
- [12:24]
It's unusual.
- [12:25]
Yeah, yeah. Because I think for more, let's say, like, observant Jews, because I'm more culturally Jewish than I am religiously Jewish, I think there, there is a discrepancy about, you know, for kosher laws, like, can you go fishing? Can you go hunting? And I've had my friends who are more so in the Orthodox community explained to me that they can't do it because of just how the cuts of meat are prepared, any hooved animals. And so for me, I take a little different approach there, but. But I realize that.
- [12:51]
I didn't realize that there's an issue with that.
- [12:54]
Yeah, yeah. Not so much in my immediate family. But my father was the instigator behind all of this. He taught me how to fish. He helped me develop a love of the great outdoors. And early on, I remember in California being this beautiful backdrop of the great outdoors. You have all four seasons, national parks. Fishing was right in my backyard on the Pacific at the Pacific Ocean, or inland at the different rivers. My dad got to do some fishing in Lithuania. I forget if it was a relative or family friend. So he would go to Belarus when he was a child during the summers living behind the Iron Curtain. And that's where he learned how to do fishing. And there were no sons, so he deputized me as his fishing pal.
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Right.
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And I. I first picked up a fishing rod or started to go fishing with him when I was 8. And I got seriously hooked. By the time I was 12, I caught this really consequential catfish. And I remember the measurements and the increments behind it. It was Memorial Day 2003, gosh, 22 years ago. And that fish just really solidified it for me. And ever since, I've caught, like salmon, I've caught these big fish that look half my size, and it's a lot of fun to do that. And then I naturally moved towards shooting sports and then hunting when I moved to the east coast just to. As a way to socialize. And also I just felt like, very empowered in doing these activities. I didn't even think, you know, as a thing, like, I have experienced some anti Semitism as a kid because ignorant kids who always just stop, you know, they push stupid stuff. They claim they have Nazi relatives, and that's very uncomfortable. But for me, it wasn't really because of anti Semitism or a threat to me personally, but I Just felt like at the time, you live in a state where there are friendly laws for gun ownership, you might as well do it. You take the training, get your concealed carry. And for me, that's now almost 10 years ago, but I picked up a gun actually. First time in California, went to these public lands in San Bernardino county. Was a little skeptical at first, and then, you know, spent some time away from it, moved to the east coast, finished college, etc. And then I picked it up again. Befriending people and when you work in politics, shooting sports is a great way to break the ice and to make friends and to build community. And so I. I was able to, even through those early experiences, I would say, get interested in the journalism side of things on firearms. So I would go to. And I haven't gone in a few years, but I've gone to my fair share of shot shows, which is like the cpac.
- [15:06]
That's the one right about it. Yeah.
- [15:09]
Of. It's. It's a trade show, but you get to see celebrities. You get to see like the who's who of the outdoor industry. And it's a lot of fun. Vegas is not really my scene, but I'll only go to Vegas for that. Show.
- [15:20]
Show.
- [15:20]
Yeah, for shot show. And I've got to. I've gone to a lot of like, hunting and fishing trade shows as well. And it's such a unique community. And as you were saying, you know, finding kinship with people like mindedness. Like, I have found some people who are Slavic or from Baltics or, you know, have some sort of ties to that through fishing and hunting. There's actually a lot of people who like those activities. Mushroom hunting is also another big thing I learned.
- [15:42]
Yeah.
- [15:42]
Yeah. In. In that corner of the world. And I've even been able to best my father when we went to Lithuania last year for our first time in like 25 years, he and I. My mother has gone like every 10 years or so, but I was able to best my father, find bigger mushrooms than him. So that was cool. And it's a lot of fun to do that. And. And yeah, it's just, you know, super unique. And you can find community doing that. People who share similar political persuasions like you, people who don't like. I feel like it's the one industry, whether it's hunting, fishing, shooting, sports that can't be.
- [16:14]
Yeah.
- [16:15]
Riddled with wokeness because there's so much individualism. You have to defend yourself. You have to potentially, you know, anticipate going into the wilderness, fending for yourself a political disposition or a fear of something or this inclination to this very kind of isolated, extreme view is not going to help you survive a bear encounter in the wilderness.
- [16:35]
Right.
- [16:36]
Or having to, you know, find fresh water or navigate your way back to camp or something of that nature. So this industry has been so immune to it doesn't mean it's not a welcoming community. It absolutely is. We have more women, more minorities, more people coming into hunting and fishing because they want to shooting sports because they want to defend themselves. But it's very individualistic, so that's why I like it. And also it's a great escapism. It's not like this escapism to rebel. It's an escapism to become stronger in your skill set and really fend for yourself and, you know, appreciate the. The natural world. And I would say, like a true conservationist format. And we can talk more about, like, what conservation is if you're interested. But. But that's kind of my thinking into it. And I love these activities and I wouldn't be who I am without them. They really have cemented my thinking.
- [17:22]
It's so cool. Like, I really. I feel like it is a world that I want to know more about. What do you worry about?
- [17:29]
There's a lot of things to worry about. Gosh, where could I start? I would say probably two things. Of course, increasing loneliness in this very technical age. I'm in my mid-30s, I talk to a lot of people. And even though we're really hyper connected these days, there's a lot of isolation. People are less inclined to socialize, even talk or connect, or people just fully retreat, whether it's dating, friendships, et cetera. And that worries me a little bit because I love solitude. I think solitude is great, but to see more and more people, and especially young men kind of retreat from socializing and interactions, that makes me increasingly nervous. And another thing that makes me, I would say, increasingly alarmed. And this is more kind of relating to, you know, relationships between men and women and something we've seen, like Megyn Kelly and others discuss. And as a professional woman who hopes to one day get married and have kids, I see this insistence that for a woman to achieve that, whether she has a career or stuff, she has to, like, tone down herself or like, forego her accomplishments. And for any woman watching or listening, I hope you don't feel that way because you should be very proud of your accomplishments if you're a published writer, a commentator, a bank, or something of that nature. So I Know that like feminism has really skewed and distorted things.
- [18:47]
Yeah.
- [18:47]
Worried also the other extreme, in addition to this loneliness epidemic and kind of fueling this lonely epidemic, you know, everyone, you know, complaining about the other, men complaining about women, women complaining about men. It's not healthy for our discourse and to, you know, help, let's say, fix this population crisis. We're seeing this lack of marriage, although marriage is starting to kind of make a turnaround, I would say in terms of trans, I hope so. I'm encouraged by the younger people, maybe not so much millennials, but I think things can be course corrected on their own if people have the aptitude to do it. But if we see these continual wars about like women have brought about problems on themselves or men have brought about problems on themselves, it's not healthy. And it's going to fuel this loneliness epidemic too.
- [19:29]
Yeah, I see that. Absolutely. I think that those things go hand in hand and the loneliness, like retreating into ourselves, it's so easy to do right now. It's the main topic that people write to me on this show saying, my kids don't have friends, my teen doesn't have friends, my 20 somethings don't have friends. It's a really big problem. And I think people, the more people treat online as real life, the less likely they'll be able to have relationships in person. And absolutely one of my top concerns. We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.
- [20:05]
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- [20:36]
What would you advise yourself at 16? What does a 16 year old Gabriela.
- [20:42]
Need to know that life is not gonna be on someone else's timeline or that you don't have to worry about meeting something exactly at a particular date. You don't have to say like I have to be married by 25 or I have to achieve this goal by 30. And I think I used to fall into that trap and I've met a lot of my goals well before 30 and all that. Some other goals I have not fulfilled. And I think being jealous or nervous that you haven't reached a certain milestone in your life can create a lot of stress, can, can make, lead you to make horrible choices for settling, lead you to settling in life. And you shouldn't have to settle in life for less. I think you should settle for more and get what you deserve. But of course you have to keep in mind if you're of a certain age, you know, you can't delay certain things. But it's hard sometimes to meet people. But I think I would tell my 16 year old self that you don't have to necessarily be worried about timelines. You have to go at your own pace. Delayed gratification is great and it makes you more humble and more prepared for challenges ahead. But don't be so nervous about like when you hit something. Yeah, some people are at different timelines.
- [21:46]
What kind of stuff do you work on as energy and conservation director at iwf?
- [21:51]
Trying to break down complex topics relating to different energy sources, energy policy into readily understandable, digestible materials. Whether it's blog posts, op eds, videos, policy focuses because energy can be complex and it shouldn't have to be it. We immerse ourselves in energy all day. We, we thrive off of energy. As we're recording Carol, you and I are, you know, using light sources. We, we have electricity that powers our house, we have makeup, we have different derivatives of oil and gas and different things like that. And I think a lot of people bite the hand that feeds them. They don't understand the energy is so integral to everyday life, even beyond the production and consumption side of things. And it goes back to, I think, like I said, to our upbringing. I remember hearing about centrally planned policies where the government's too heavily involved and you see blackouts and brownouts, you see worsened environmental quality. In Lithuania, my parents always remember water quality was terrible, air quality was bad. I bet the same was in Russia too. And since Lithuania has broken away and become independent, you've seen, you know, salmon come back to full recovery. You've seen pristine rivers you see in anywhere else in the former Soviet bloc that is independent, very prosperous like that. And I think we're seeing this conversation maybe not so much under the Trump administration because they have really good posturing and I really like what they're doing. We still see some on the left say, well, we have to trade economic prosperity for environmental conservation. I'm like, you don't have to trade one versus the other. You can have both.
- [23:20]
Yeah.
- [23:21]
And they've never been in the, I.
- [23:22]
Say one leads to the other. I see how countries that are not economically prosperous tend not to have the better energy systems, tend not to have the cleaner energy, tend not to have any of that stuff. So I don't, I don't see how it's a trade off at all. In fact, I think you can't have one without the other.
- [23:41]
Exactly. And when people are settled in their ways, they have a job, they can care about their environmental surroundings.
- [23:47]
Right.
- [23:47]
When you don't have disposable income, you don't have a roof over your head, why should you care about it? Like, it's not to be dismissive of true environmental concerns, but polling has suggested and shown that as you know, let's say the cost of trying to be climate friendly goes up. People don't want to pay to fight the so called climate crisis, to fight climate change. Like nobody wants to spend more than a dollar to reduce their environmental footprint. And that, that is consistently shown all across the board. And then when you make these doom and gloom predictions that the world is ending and those predictions never pan out, yeah, those people are not to be trusted. That's why I think conservatives have an opportunity and I'm hope, I hope that my center is offering a solution there. But we are starting to see conservatives steer the conversation on this about balanced use, not having too much overdevelopment, but to have conservation, which means the natural resources usage and development that is measured, practical and still allows you to enjoy green spaces and waterways. And I think conservatives are starting to be much better at that. They still have some ways to go and they could talk to me if they need some help there. But, but true conservation stewardship is a conservative value. I mean you talk about Theodore Roosevelt and a lot of Republicans, a lot of Republicans, even those who are even more progressive than I'd like them to have been. Yeah, they were pioneering a lot of the environmental reforms that we see today. Things that can be improved upon, of course. But a lot of Republican policies and administrations did actually start a lot of these measures. They implemented a lot of laws to ensure we had clean air, clean water and hunting and fishing as a means of conservation.
- [25:21]
Right. Those two things also go hand in hand for me. I think Republicanism and conservation, I mean, I see it in Florida, they're not opposed to each other at all. I think Republican policies can and do lead to better conservation policies in a lot of places. Well, I've loved this conversation. I think you're super interesting and the work that you do is so fascinating to me. End us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
- [25:47]
I'm not a guru and I don't profess to be one, but I really think time in the great outdoors to wrap this conversation full circle is a way to be really healthy. Whether it's doing a 10,000 step K walk or 10,000 step walk. Excuse me, just to like be outside in green spaces or to go hunting and fishing or hiking. Just something to see greenery. To be in the blue mind, which means to be at peace when you're surrounded by a body of water. Whether it's green spaces or being surrounded by a body of water, take your pick and do a 10,000 step walk. I think those are simple ways to really improve your life. And if you want to learn how to fish or hunt, I'm more than happy to give you tips and resources. Love it, but time outdoors is great. Keeps you healthy.
- [26:28]
I totally agree. She is Gabriela Hoffman. Check her out at IWF and everywhere that she writes. Thank you so much for coming on. Gabriela.
- [26:35]
Thank you Carol. An honor.
- [26:41]
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- [27:11]
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- [28:13]
Gabriela Hoffman
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- [28:44]
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- [29:13]
Carol Markowitz
This is an I Heart podcast.