Podcast Summary – The Karol Markowicz Show: "From LGBTQ Activism to Gender Heretic: Ben Appel on Identity Politics & Free Speech"

Original Air Date: January 21, 2026
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts) | The Karol Markowicz Show
Host: Carol Markowitz
Guest: Ben Appel, author of CIS White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic

Episode Overview

This episode features journalist and memoirist Ben Appel, whose 2025 book CIS White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic explores his journey from active engagement in LGBTQ+ activism to his critical stance on identity politics and gender ideology, particularly within progressive circles. Host Carol Markowitz and Appel discuss the evolution of gender discourse, the challenges of dissent within activist communities, the risks of ideological conformity, and the broader effects of identity politics on social cohesion and free speech.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ben Appel’s Background and Road to “Gender Heretic”

• Activism & Academic Pursuits:
  • Started activism on Maryland’s marriage equality campaign (2012) and trans rights legislation (2013) ([02:12]).
  • Transitioned from a hairstylist to journalism, pursued an undergraduate degree at Columbia ([02:44]).
  • Immersed in humanities at Columbia, surrounded by queer and postcolonial theory ([03:19]).
• First Doubts and Dissent:
  • Noted the shift: “Theoretical ideas about gender and about sex … are now doctrine. There’s no arguing with them, no dissent. It was a completely different landscape than even what I had encountered five years earlier.” (Ben Appel, [03:00])
  • Began as an “inside heretic,” later openly voiced dissent ([04:28]).

2. How the Meaning of LGBTQ+ Activism Changed

• Evolution of Trans Rights Advocacy:
  • Early campaigns focused on fair housing/employment ([06:48]).
  • Didn’t realize legal changes would “nullify sex” and upend definitions:

    “Adding gender identity to the anti-discrimination act at the state level, it nullifies sex because … sex is no longer means anything. … That’s why yesterday you have the Supreme Court arguing about males in female sports. This utterly bizarre and totally asinine idea.”
    — Ben Appel ([07:41])

• Problems with Alphabet Acronym:
  • Lumping L, G, B, T, Q together creates an artificial consensus; “There’s great dissent and diversity of voice and opinion.” ([08:04])
  • Raises contradiction: “If gender doesn’t matter, what does gay mean? … It makes no difference if gender’s not a thing.” — Carol Markowitz ([08:48])

3. Comparing Trans Issues with Marriage Equality & The Loss of Meaning

• Differences in Movements:
  • “It’s apples and oranges. … When we’re talking about scientific reality, we’re talking about the building blocks of why we’re still here, why we’ve been able to propagate our species.” — Ben Appel ([09:07])
  • On erasure of sex/gender boundaries:

    “If there’s no definition of sex, how can someone be discriminated on the basis of sex? … It’s completely incoherent.”
    — Ben Appel ([09:49])

4. Social and Personal Consequences of Dissent

• Within the LGBTQ+ and Progressive Communities:
  • Was called “cis white gay” in a derogatory way ([11:11]):

    “It was said in the same tone that kids in middle school called me gay or the S word for gay in middle school years ago. … I was like, if I ever write about this, I’m going to call my book that.”
    — Ben Appel ([12:25])

  • Hierarchies of intersectionality—“the more oppressed you are, the more … power you have. So you know, white males … bottom rung.” ([12:26])
  • Critique: “All these faux solutions were completely regressive and boldly racist and sexist.” ([12:25])
• Losing Friends & Finding Solidarity:
  • Lost friends, especially liberal female friends, more than gay male friends ([13:28]).
  • Noted the hypocrisy: “Now the Washington Post is able to just casually fling it out there that [men in female sports] isn’t a problem at all … after years of us pulling our hair out.” — Ben Appel ([13:55])
  • On psychological cost: “It was actually making me sick mentally and physically, keeping all these thoughts and dissent in. That makes people sick.” ([14:39])

5. The Danger of Ideological Absolutism & Its Reaction

• Newton’s Third Law of Politics:
  • Deepening polarization: “For every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction. … So much is reactionary, reacting to the opposite side without really thinking what is best for the American people.” ([21:37])
  • “I’m afraid we’re going to be electing this crazy leftist, then … who knows what.” ([22:58])
• Polarization & Identity Focus:
  • “What did the left think when they told everybody to focus on their race? … Now we’re seeing the insane right and their obsession with their white heritage as reaction.” — Carol Markowitz ([23:09])
  • Ben describes incidents of racial divisiveness and fear of speaking honestly at Columbia ([23:59]).

6. Signs of Change and Optimism

• Shifting Overton Window:
  • Carol notes in 2025, “We had a hard time selling [the book Stolen Youth] because of the transgender chapter … even to conservative publishers. … Things have changed for the better.” ([25:14])

7. Personal Triumph and Advice

• Ben’s Journey of Recovery and Accomplishment:
  • Overcame religious fundamentalist upbringing, heroin addiction ([20:16]).
  • “At the end of this month, January 31st, I’ll have 20 years clean and sober. … That’s what I’m proud of, is that I just still have a life to lead.” — Ben Appel ([20:43])
• Advice for Listeners:
  • “Say what you think. … Common sense really does ring true with people. … Just be unafraid to say out loud what you think. … It’s hugely liberating, terrifying at first, but the sky didn’t fall.” — Ben Appel ([26:06])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I was a heretic on the inside at first, keeping my thoughts … slowly built the courage to kind of openly dissent and talk back.”
  — Ben Appel ([04:26])

• “If gender doesn’t matter, what does gay mean … it really doesn’t make sense to lump them in.”
  — Carol Markowitz ([08:39])

• “It was actually making me sick mentally and physically, keeping all of these thoughts and this dissent in … That’s what part of my book is about as well.”
  — Ben Appel ([14:39])

• “For every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction. … That’s what worries me. … The furthest, most radical left and most radical right contingents are going to be speaking for all of us.”
  — Ben Appel ([21:37])

• “Say what you think. … It’s hugely liberating. … I didn’t die, I didn’t spontaneously combust. I’m still here, I’m still breathing.”
  — Ben Appel ([26:06])

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:07 | Ben’s introduction—road to activism and Columbia University | | 03:00 | Realization of doctrine-and-dissent atmosphere in academia | | 06:29 | Early activism vs contemporary trans politics | | 09:07 | Nuanced differences: marriage equality vs. trans issues | | 11:11 | Meaning of "cis white gay," intersectional hierarchy critique | | 13:28 | Social consequences: losing friends for dissent | | 14:39 | Psychological cost of silence, need to speak up | | 21:37 | Predictions about polarization and political reaction | | 23:59 | Examples of campus identity dynamics and resultant silencing | | 25:14 | Shifts in public discourse; optimism for the future | | 26:06 | Ben's life advice: "say what you think" |

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, at times irreverent, and combines personal storytelling with pointed cultural critique. Both Carol and Ben champion open discussion, “saying what you think,” and express a longing for nuance and common sense over ideological conformity.

Recommendation

Listeners interested in the intersection of LGBTQ+ issues, identity politics, free speech, and the evolution of progressive activism will find this episode particularly engaging. Ben Appel’s personal journey adds authenticity and emotional depth to debates often conducted in the abstract, while his willingness to critique his own communities offers rare and valuable perspective.