The Karol Markowicz Show: From New York to Utah: Stafford Palmieri-Sievert on Politics, Education, and Living with Integrity

Summary

Podcast Summary: “From New York to Utah: Stafford Palmieri-Sievert on Politics, Education, and Living with Integrity”

The Karol Markowicz Show on The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Original Air Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Carol Markowitz
Guest: Stafford Palmieri-Sievert

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Overview

In this episode, Carol Markowitz sits down with Stafford Palmieri-Sievert—founder and managing partner of Fight and Strategy, board member of Thomas and Hutton, and secretary of the Utah Republican Party. Their wide-ranging conversation explores Palmieri-Sievert’s path from New York to Utah, her experience in Louisiana’s government, insights into political engagement and education policy, and the principles she abides by in both professional and personal life. The episode is packed with learning moments, career advice, and reflections on integrity and public service—delivered with warmth and authenticity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Balancing Ambition and Motherhood

[03:11]

• Carol asks how Stafford manages her intensive career with a one-year-old at home.
• Stafford credits her husband, Zachary, for being a supportive partner, and points out:

  “When you want to get something done, you give it to somebody who's busy.” ([03:17])

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Entering and Shaping Utah Politics

[03:34]

• Stafford shares her journey: moving from New York (where she felt Republicans had little political relevance) to Utah, seeking a chance to get involved.
• She started at the county party level, then advanced to secretary of the Utah Republican Party, focusing on consistency and infrastructure in party leadership.

“In a state where Republicans have been in control for so long, there is the risk of complacency… Part of why I ran for reelection is that we had not had consistency in the party leadership.” ([04:59])

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Observations on Red-State Politics

[04:33]

• Carol asks if Utah feels politically “safe”; Stafford acknowledges the threat of complacency but highlights the impact of outside influences:

“We've had a ton of California money moving into Utah, and that is definitely changing the politics here significantly… we are not sitting on our laurels.” ([04:59])

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Lessons from Louisiana: Serving Under Governor Bobby Jindal

[06:09]

• Stafford recounts her trajectory in the Jindal administration, from education policy advisor at age 24 to the state’s Commissioner of Administration (effectively CFO and operator of a major state agency).

“You can't win if you can't explain it… Bobby [Jindal] is an incredibly intelligent person and I loved working for him, loved how his brain thought, [and] that he held us to a really high standard.” ([06:36])

• She discusses the operational challenges in Louisiana versus Utah, connecting state financial structures to outcomes.

“In all the ways that Louisiana is ranked 50th on everything, Utah is ranked number one. And Louisiana's budget is kind of at the core of that. It's a series of lockboxes.” ([08:02])

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Early Influences—Government and the Value of Work

[09:06]

• Stafford recalls her childhood job for a CPA in New York and how her mother withheld “taxes” from her paycheck, introducing her early to the impact of government:

“That taught me quite a lot about the unilateral power of government that can come in… with the all powerful hand and [take] money out of your pocket.” ([10:00])

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Discovering a Passion for Education Policy

[13:27]

• She describes her exposure to injustice within the education system during her time at Yale, particularly disparities for student-athletes and tenure-related stagnation in high school teaching.
• Disappointment with the system’s structural issues inspired her to pursue policy over teaching directly.

“That was where my eyes really opened to the policy implications and the structural implications of how our education system is created and organized.” ([15:15])

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On Luck, Drive, and Making Opportunities

[16:51]

• Carol pushes back on narratives of luck, highlighting Stafford’s willingness to take initiative. Stafford agrees:

“Luck is made. You don’t get what you want unless you ask for it.” ([17:12]–[17:16])

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Conservative Values Shaped by Upbringing and Service

[17:25]

• Growing up in New York City, being taxed as a young worker, and volunteering with her family contributed to Stafford’s conservative worldview.
• Philanthropy and first-hand exposure to structural causes of poverty influenced her philosophy:

“It became very obvious to me that structures matter and that… government can set up systems that create opportunity and growth or that crush it.” ([18:20])

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The Changing Face of New York City & Policy Lessons

[19:03]

• Stafford and Carol discuss the decline of New York’s public order post-2017, broken windows theory, and the cycle of diminishing enforcement.

“Broken windows theory is a real thing. And so when you create a situation of lawlessness, people will break the law.” ([19:31])

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Pride in Showing Up and Building Community

[20:48]

• Asked what she’s most proud of, Stafford emphasizes being present and involved wherever she’s lived.

“I'm the kind of person where when I move to a place, I get involved. I decide that I'm going to make the place where I am the best place that it can be. I show up for my friends.” ([20:48])

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Predictions for the Near Future: AI and Home Robotics

[22:14]

• Stafford predicts humanoid robots will be common luxury items within five years and muses about all the tasks she’d automate, from laundry to feeding goats and managing household logistics.

“I think in five years we will be buying humanoid robots like we buy massage chairs or hot dogs.” ([22:49]) “We make so much laundry. I didn't think that children… how do you make that much laundry?” ([22:59])

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On Living with Integrity—A Final Life Tip

[25:41]

• Stafford’s parting advice centers on the distinction between keeping your word and honoring your word.

“It's not possible to actually keep your word 100% of the time and to pretend that you're going to… is a form of dishonoring your word. But to honor your word is to tell someone right away when you can't keep your word and then obviously keep your word as much as you can. I think knowing the distinction between those two things is the root of integrity.” ([25:41])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Leadership in Politics:
  “We needed to have strength and consistency and continuity over time.” — Stafford Palmieri-Sievert ([04:59])
• On Public Policy Communication:
  “You can’t win if you can’t explain it.” — Stafford Palmieri-Sievert ([06:36])
• On Making Your Own Luck:
  “Luck is made. You don’t get what you want unless you ask for it.” — Stafford Palmieri-Sievert ([17:12]–[17:16])
• On Community Engagement:
  “I'm a shower upper. I'm the kind of person where when I move to a place, I get involved… I show up for my friends.” — Stafford Palmieri-Sievert ([20:48])
• On Living with Integrity:
  “There’s a difference between keeping your word and honoring your word… I think knowing the distinction is the root of integrity.” — Stafford Palmieri-Sievert ([25:41])

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 03:17: Balancing career, family, and motherhood
• 03:34 – 05:56: Entry into and challenges within Utah Republican Party
• 06:09 – 09:02: Experience in Louisiana, working for Gov. Jindal
• 09:06 – 10:00: Early exposure to government’s impact
• 13:27 – 16:51: Choosing policy over teaching; landing a think tank role
• 17:25 – 18:20: How volunteering and early work shaped her conservatism
• 19:03 – 19:31: Policy lessons from NYC’s decline
• 20:48 – 21:49: “Showing up” as a point of pride
• 22:14 – 23:53: Five-year prediction: AI/robots in the home
• 25:41 – 26:25: Final advice on integrity

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Tone & Atmosphere

Throughout the episode, both Carol and Stafford maintain a candid, friendly, and insightful tone. The conversation is motivational without being preachy—interwoven with humor, personal anecdotes, and practical wisdom, making it broadly appealing to listeners interested in politics, leadership, education reform, or personal development.

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For listeners looking for a blend of political insight, career lessons, and life philosophy—this episode delivers a wealth of actionable ideas, engaging stories, and thoughtful perspectives.

Transcript

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[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

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[Carol Markowitz]

Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Stafford Palmieri Siebert. Stafford is founder and managing partner of Fight and Strategy on the board of Thomas and Hutton, a privately held engineering firm, and the secretary of the Utah Republican Party. Hi, Stafford. So nice to have you on.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Thanks, Carol. I'm happy to be here.

[Carol Markowitz]

So I also know that you have a one year old, is that right?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I do.

[Carol Markowitz]

My question has to be how, how, how do you do all of that with a one year old?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I have a really good support network at home named Zachary, my husband, who is wonderful. But you know what they say, you, when you want to get something done, you give it to somebody who's busy.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right. So how did you get into being the secretary of the Utah Republican Party?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

So it actually started right around when I moved to Utah about four years ago. I wanted to get back involved in politics. I'd been in New York, where Republicans are just irrelevant at this point. And I, I was looking for opportunities to just get involved. Thought maybe I could do some phone banks, I could, you know, help some local candidates. I'm the kind of person where when I decide I'm all in, I'm all in. And so when I decided to move to Utah, I was all in. And so first I ran for a county party level role. I met my county party chair and she got all excited. She liked my former boss, Bobby Jindal. And then I wound up, when I got married, moving out of that county. And so I couldn't run for something else in that county. And I got approached about challenging the incumbent party secretary, which I did. And then I ran for reelection this spring. And so I'm in my second term.

[Carol Markowitz]

Nice. So how does it feel running the Republican Party in a red state, a really red state? I mean, even in Florida, where I live, it's, I've become a very red state in the last few years, but I live in a purple district. I think in general, people think, you know, it could someday swing blue again, but Utah feels reliable. Does it feel like that to you or do you feel like you have to fight every, every day?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I wouldn't say we have to fight every day, but I would say that in a state where Republicans have been in control for so long, there is the risk of complacency. And so a lot of the battles actually happen in the primary. And then in the last five years, last 10 years, but particularly the last five years, we've had a ton of California money moving into Utah, and that is definitely changing the politics here significantly. So we are not sitting on our laurels. Part of why I ran for reelection is that that we had not had consistency in the party leadership. It was sort of like total recall every two years. And the party chair, Rob Axon, and I felt very strongly about creating more infrastructure and that we needed to have strength and consistency and continuity over time. And so this is the first time in a long time that we've had two members of the four person leadership team who've served more than one term in a row.

[Carol Markowitz]

Nice. Yeah, that's. I feel like that's also really important. The continuity that doesn't exist in a lot of places. You came there from New York, but before that you were in Louisiana.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Yes, that's right.

[Carol Markowitz]

What was your role with Bobby Jindal?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

So I actually spent almost six years in Bobby Jindal's administration, and he and I really got along. It became very obvious about a year in, when I became the policy director to our chief of staff, that he could stick me in a room with Bobby's policy brain and I could come out and explain in English what it was that Bobby wanted to do. Bobby is very smart.

[Carol Markowitz]

Politics to English is always a good.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Yes, definitely. You can't win if you can't explain it. And Bobby is an incredibly intelligent person. And I loved working for him. I loved how his brain thought. I loved that he held us to a really high standard. So I actually, I started working for him when I was 24. I was recruited down there to be his education policy advisor. I was working at a think tank in D.C. and I got this cold email and I didn't even know what an education policy advisor was at the time. And so I went to a mentor and I asked him, what is an education policy advisor for a governor? And he explained it to me. And what sounded really exciting about it was that I'd actually be in the trenches implementing the policy. So both coming up with it, but also doing it. And I am very much an operations person, and I have learned that over time. I love policy. It was my first love. But I'm definitely a doer, which I think is reflected in sort of what I've done since then. But I went from being education policy advisor to policy director to assistant Chief of Staff to deputy Chief of staff. And then Bobby actually, at the end of the administration, appointed me to his cabinet where I was the Commissioner of administration, which Is like the state's chief administrative and financial officer. So I ran the 1800 person agency that runs the back office of the state. So I had payroll, state lands, procurement. Wow. The state budget, things of that name nature.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's a big job. How do you leave that?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Well, the administration ended, so I really wish, honestly it was the most fun job I've ever had. And I wish I had been in that seat longer. There were some light bulbs that went off when I really got into the weeds of understanding how the Louisiana budget worked. And I set off a bunch of light bulbs with our legislative leadership. And I wish I'd been able to go through another session with them in all the ways that Louisiana is ranked 50th on everything. Utah is ranked number one. And Louisiana's budget is kind of at the core of that. It's a series of lockboxes. They've kind of done it to themselves basically. And then you add to it that it's a relatively poor state as well, but just a difficult situation. But one of the most fun, exhilarating positions I've ever had. And I absolutely loved it and I totally would have stayed had the administration not ended.

[Carol Markowitz]

What was your path to all this? Did you always want to be in politics?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I think I've always been interested in it. I realized from a very young age that government can shape to the good or to the bad a lot of our day to day experiences. And I think my first exposure to that actually was when I was, I think I was about 12 and I was working for a CPA in our apartment building in New York. And I was above the threshold of maybe I was a little bit older. No child labor here. I was above the threshold.

[Carol Markowitz]

I was gonna say 12 years old, working for a CPA that is a driven, driven young lady.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I might have been 13. I was pretty young. I know I wasn't in high school yet, but I was organizing all his receipts for his clients. That's cool. And he paid me. And then my mom took taxes and so I don't think I had to pay taxes officially, but she took taxes out of my. Out of my paycheck for my roomborn.

[Carol Markowitz]

Gotta learn.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

And that taught me quite a lot about the unilateral power of government that can come in, you know, with the all powerful hand and money out of your pocket.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show. Dog grooming genius here. Most people see a busy dog salon, but I see operational excellence. Thanks to Genius. From global payments, scheduling, personalized checkouts, instant absolutely Genius. From game day crowds to every groomer in this shop, Genius keeps everything flowing seamlessly. Schnauzer is styled flawless execution, big league.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

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[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

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[Carol Markowitz]

So what would you have done if this hadn't worked out? What would the plan B have been?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Honestly, I. I always wanted to. Well, when I got to. When I got to college, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I went to, you know, a liberal arts school where the world is your oyster and you can kind of pick your own adventure, which has its pros and its cons.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

And I got exposed to education policy when I was a sophomore. I actually had a friend who was the Teach for America recruiter on campus. And I wound up not doing Teach for America, but I did the education policy concentration of which is kind of a weird program. And I went to Yale undergrad. And it's not a degree, it's a program that you do kind of on the side. And what I realized in going through that program is that I had really been blessed with an incredible education. I also learned things like there were students that were recruited for sports at Yale that literally had not taken the requisite courses to do freshman level work at Yale. And that felt deeply unfair that there are children that don't have that door open for them that not by any doing of their own, but just because of what school that they wound up going to. And then when I did my student teaching, I had a mentor teacher who, and I kid you not, this was an honors U.S. history class. And here I am as the little apprentice, I'm supposed to be teaching the class on behalf of this guy so that I can learn how to be a teacher. And he has the kids copying out of the textbook. And I was. So I go to the head of the department and I say, could I go sit in on another class? I'd love to see what another teacher does. And she goes, I know I can't fire him. He's tenured. And I was like, I'm sorry, what?

[Carol Markowitz]

She knew? Yeah, she knew.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Oh, she totally knew. And that was where my eyes really opened to the policy implications and the structural implications of how our education system is created and organized. And so I decided not to become a teacher, that I actually wanted to go do policy work instead. And so when all of my classmates were running around campus in suits looking in My opinion at the age of 22, a little bit ridiculous. Applying for consulting and I banking jobs, I decided I wanted to go to D.C. and work for a think tank. And so I applied to all the think tanks and I actually got lucky. I had cojones at that age. I cold emailed the education scholar at aei, whose name is Rick Hess, who I'm still friendly with to this day. I actually ran into him randomly in the Salt Lake City airport the other a couple months ago, and he was going to speak at an education policy conference at the School of Management, which is Yale's business school. And he's like, let's sit down after lunch. And I said, okay. So I know walk up to the business school campus and I sit down with this guy after lunch and turns out AEI has this very regimented application process. But he gives me the names of all these other think tanks that I should apply to that are much smaller. And so I wound up working at a place called the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, which was an incredible blessing because I was in a much smaller environment where I was able to get involved with a lot of different projects much earlier and much sooner. But that's how I got into education policy and then sort of the rest is history from there in terms of how I wound up in Bobby Jindold's administration.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's funny because a lot of people, when I ask them, like, how they got to where they are and different questions about their paths, they say I got lucky. And like a lot of the time that luck sounds like you put in the work, you took chances, you sent emails, you put yourself out there. So I would say to anyone listening, I'm not sure Stafford got lucky. I think she's pretty smart.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Luck is made. Luck is made.

[Carol Markowitz]

I don't think you make your own luck. Exactly.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Yeah, you don't get what you want ask for unless you ask for it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly. Yes. Were you always a conservative, like growing up in New York City doing taxes?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Yes. I think part of it was being taxed at the age of 12.

[Carol Markowitz]

That'll do it.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I think part of it was that, and this is something that my husband and I have talked about for our own son, was that I did a lot of volunteering and I really credit my mom with this. So on every. The church we went to, at every holiday they would serve the homeless. And so we would go serve the homeless before we ate our own Easter or Christmas or Thanksgiving meal.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

And you know, here I am, a little six year old, walking around refilling the cranberry sauce on all the tables. And of course, I start. I started having questions with my guests and are starting having conversations with them, rather. And I learned a lot about poor choices, but also poor circumstances that resulted in homelessness and resulted in situations that brought somebody into the church to get a free meal on a holiday.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

And so it became very obvious to me that structures matter and that, again, that government can set up systems that create opportunity and growth or that crush it. And New York City, I think, is a really good example of great example, a city that has set itself up to fail. And that was very obvious to me when I was there, again, as an adult, that the. The city was just making extraordinarily poor choices. And it's hard. Why I don't live there anymore.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's depressing. I root for New York, but they keep just digging that hole ever deeper. I'm not sure when they dig themselves out or if they do in my lifetime. I mean, I hope so, but I just don't see it.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I was just gonna say, I think there was a. A turning point in 2017 when the city council decided to legalize things that are. Should be illegal. And that really, from my perspective, because the policy didn't go into Place until 20. They decriminalized turnstile jumping, smoking pot on the street, and public urination and defecation. I think defecation. I know it was public urination and about.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, if we have to wonder, you know, we have to wonder.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Right. And about a year later, you know, first it was just at night, you'd see somebody peeing behind a car, and then it was like, not at night anymore. And then it was in the middle of the day. And broken windows theory is a real thing. And so when you create a situation of lawlessness, people will break the law. And so. And even to this day, my aunt, who is almost 87, was telling me that the other day she got screamed at on the subway because somebody wanted her to open the door so that they could basically go on the subway for free and she wouldn't do it. And she got caught, you know, called a bunch of curse words. And, you know, she's 4 foot 11 and 87 years old, and it's like, why do you live in this place anymore? I don't.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Anyway.

[Carol Markowitz]

But I. Yeah, it's tough. It really is. That broken windows, the fact that, you know, municipalities keep discovering that when you arrest criminals for small crimes, you find criminals for bigger crimes. It's something that they Keep learning over and over again. And I'm like, you could just look at the Giuliani and Bloomberg years in New York City and have that lesson for you, but they choose not to do that. So you do all these things. You really are involved just in a number of different ways. What are you most proud of in your life?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Showing up. I am a shower upper. I'm the kind of person where when I move to a place, I get involved. I decide that I'm going to make the place where I am the best place that it can be. I show up for my friends. I'm really blessed to have these incredible groups of friends from different periods of my life. When my husband and I were getting married and we were putting together our wedding invite list, it got very long because I had D.C. friends and the Louisiana friends and the New York friends and the business school friends, tall friends, and. And I think, you know, it's important that those friendships that you treasure life is really about the people that you do life with. And I choose very carefully the people that I want to do life with, and then those people stay on that list. So, you know, you go through phases and seasons where you don't get to see people as often as you. As you want. But ultimately, I think the test of a true friendship is not seeing someone for a long time and just picking up right where you left off.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that, being a shower upper. I, I have to work on that. I have to be more of a shower upper. I have to. Especially, you know, I think after moves is exactly when you should throw yourself into being that person. And I, I think I don't do that as well as I should. I'm going to take that lesson here and do better, I hope.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I love that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Give us a prediction. Five years out can be about anything at all.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Yeah. So I don't know if you've heard of the company called Figure AI. They make humanoid robots that work, in fact. And then also I think Tesla has actually been bulk ordering them to try to replace all the humans on their factory lines. So I think in five years, and I always laugh when I see these memes on Facebook where it's like, it's, you know, AI is going to take your job and it's a mom and the mom's like, when? When is AI going to take my job? So I think in five years we will be buying humanoid robots like we buy massage chairs or hot dogs.

[Carol Markowitz]

Wow. Five years.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Five years they will be a luxury item at Costco. What are you gonna have yours do laundry. Folding and putting a laundry.

[Carol Markowitz]

Number one, top of the list.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Yes, definitely. We make so much laundry. I didn't think that children. I mean, the clothes are so small. Like, how do you make that much laundry? It's just. It just piles up.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

I just can't deal with the amount of laundry that I now have to wash and fold.

[Carol Markowitz]

So at least it's cute at that age. After a while, they're still making that much laundry and it's not adorable anymore. And you're like, like, I need a robot for this.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

That's right. That's so right.

[Carol Markowitz]

But yeah, that's top of my list. Laundry for sure. I can't think of that many other things, though. Always when people say this, I'm like, what else do. What else do we want robots to do for us?

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Oh, my goodness. I would. There are so many. I mean, I want a butler in my house, basically. I've actually thought about hiring sort of like a life manager to make my life a little easier, but I don't know. I don't think this is going to happen in five years. But I'm excited for when robots can also drive cars because I'd love to have someone go pick up my dry cleaning.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Go to the grocery store for me. Make returns, take advantage of, you know, the order and have them bring it out to your car. I would have it feed the cat. We also have goats. I'd have it go feed the goats and check on the goats and fill up the goats water. We have bees. I'd have it go check on the bees. It can't get stuck.

[Carol Markowitz]

Bees and goats. And you have like three jobs.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

How. How do you do this? So own bees and goats. And this is why we have bees and goats and not other animals. We want to add chickens, but all three of those are relatively low maintenance. Like, we can leave the goats for a couple days and like, they're fine. So, you know, they get a lot.

[Carol Markowitz]

The bees just do their own thing.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

That's. Yep. You just check on them once a week. And then the harvesting the honey, you got to dedicate a weekend or two to actually doing that. And then you get honey, you get propolis, you get wax. So you actually. There's a bunch of different byproducts that you get from. That you get from bees. But that. That was a new addition last year and that has actually been a really fun. We. We had. We had some friends that we made here and slightly older friends who were kind of mentors to us and the husband didn't really want to do bees anymore, so he gave us all his equipment. So handmade down bees. Okay. Yeah, they used to make like, you can make your own chapstick with the beeswax and like give it for Christmas gifts. Like, this is my, is my dream is making all my own Christmas gifts.

[Carol Markowitz]

That is so cool. You're definitely making me feel bad about my very minor, you know, daily accomplishments. I need to get some goats and some bees and really start bringing it. Well, I have loved this conversation, Stafford. I've loved getting to know you a little bit better. Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Yeah, there's a difference between keeping your word and honoring your word. It's not possible to actually keep your word 100% of the time and to pretend that you're going to actually keep your word 100% of the time is a form of dishonoring your word. But to honor your word is to tell someone right away when you can't keep your word and then obviously keep your word as much as you can. But I think knowing the distinction between those two things is the, the root of integrity. And I think it's also the root of not making excuses for ourselves when we can't keep our word because it's going to happen. Life is busy, but the best thing you can do is to say something right away when you can't keep your word the way you said you would.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that. She is Stafford Palmieri Sievert. Thank you so much for coming on the Carol Markowitz Show. We loved having you. Thank you.

[Stafford Palmieri Siebert]

Thank you.

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