The Karol Markowicz Show: How Education Became Ground Zero for Political Debate with Tony Kinnett

Summary

Summary of "The Karol Markowicz Show: How Education Became Ground Zero for Political Debate with Tony Kinnit"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: The Karol Markowicz Show: How Education Became Ground Zero for Political Debate with Tony Kinnett
• Release Date: June 25, 2025

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Introduction In this episode of "The Karol Markowicz Show," host Carol Markowitz engages in an insightful conversation with Tony Kinnit, a national correspondent for the Daily Signal and host of the nationally syndicated "Tony Kinnit Cast" and "Top News in 10." Tony shares his journey from education to broadcasting, his perspectives on the politicization of education, and his thoughts on the evolving landscape of American politics.

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Tony Kinnit's Journey from Education to Broadcasting [03:28 - 10:19]

Tony Kinnit opens up about his unconventional path from being a middle school science teacher to becoming a prominent voice in political commentary and broadcasting.

• Early Interests and Teaching Career:

  • Tony initially dabbled in video, audio, and politics during his youth.
  • He served in Governor Scott Walker's office in Wisconsin and explored theater and acting in college.
  • "I fell in love with teaching middle school students... I loved it." ([04:21])

• Transition to Writing and Broadcasting:

  • A turning point occurred when Tony started writing for a conservative publication, which ignited his passion for writing and political commentary.
  • Facing increasing political pressure in the education sector, Tony decided to leave teaching after feeling compelled to speak out against mandated political narratives.
  • "I couldn't stand what we were being asked to do... So one morning in October of '21, I woke up and I just decided I'd had it." ([08:33])

• Establishing His Media Presence:

  • Post-teaching, Tony founded an education publication called "Chalkboard Review," which gained traction as an open forum for genuine discourse.
  • His media career expanded rapidly, leading to nationally syndicated shows.
  • "And now it's nationally syndicated broadcast podcast." ([09:58])

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The Politicization of Education [10:19 - 12:23]

Carol and Tony delve into how education has become a central battleground in political debates.

• Education as a Political Front:

  • Tony acknowledges that while education was once a primary focus, it now intersects with broader political and social issues.
  • "Education is a huge part of every policy issue, and so is media." ([10:36])

• Unified Agendas Across Platforms:

  • The conversation highlights how political agendas are pushed not just in schools but also in media and public spaces.
  • "Education is just one kind of subsect of it. They push the agenda in school, but they also push it on the streets and media and all these different places." ([11:56])

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Future Political Frontiers and Emotional Populism [18:45 - 23:09]

Tony shares his predictions on upcoming political debates and the potential shift towards emotional populism.

• Emotional Populism vs. Principles-Based Politics:

  • Tony speculates that America might steer towards emotional populism, where sentiments override principled debates.
  • "We're probably going to kind of a closer look at whether the country goes down the road of emotional populism... Or kind of a principles based. This is how things ought to be." ([19:15])

• Constitutional Rights and Citizenship:

  • He emphasizes the impending discussions on constitutional rights and what it means to be an engaged citizen.
  • "What does it mean to be a citizen?" ([19:42])

• Media Influence and Public Discourse:

  • Tony criticizes the superficial nature of media discussions, which often lack depth and misrepresent historical data.
  • "They'll all be very surface level and they'll all misconstrue and miscite historical data." ([20:37])

---

Concerns Over Faith and Political Manipulation [23:40 - 25:56]

The conversation shifts to the manipulation of religious faith in political arguments and its impact on societal values.

• Misuse of Faith in Politics:

  • Tony expresses concern over non-believers using religious rhetoric to advance political agendas.
  • "It's weird to see this group of agnostics or cultural Christians who only think that the name Jesus being spoken means that, like, everything's hunky dory." ([23:42])

• Erosion of Theological Principles:

  • He laments the decline of principles-based theology, replaced by shallow talking points that misrepresent faith.
  • "It's a principles based understanding of theology that is now being eroded away for cheap talking points." ([24:52])

• Personal Commitment to Faith and Broadcasting:

  • Tony discusses his role as an ambassador for Christ, striving to integrate his faith authentically into his broadcasting without alienating listeners.
  • "I'm called to be an ambassador for Christ... figuring out how best to get in these conversations without steering whole groups away." ([25:15])

---

Advice to His Younger Self and Personal Reflections [25:56 - 28:43]

In a heartfelt segment, Tony offers wisdom to his younger self and reflects on his personal growth and career shifts.

• Key Advice: “Don’t Make Plans”

  • Tony advises his 16-year-old self to remain open to opportunities rather than rigidly planning ahead.
  • "Don't make plans... It will all happen." ([26:04])

• Embracing Unforeseen Opportunities:

  • He shares how his career trajectory was shaped by unexpected opportunities rather than premeditated plans.
  • "Every single one of them have just been... opportunities that were plop down at my feet." ([26:07])

• Adapting to Life's Changes:

  • Tony recounts moving from Brooklyn to Florida and adapting to new living and working environments.
  • "I never imagined... and now, I really am kind of taken aback every day by the change in everything." ([27:36])

• Best Tip for Listeners:

  • He encourages listeners to engage in continuous learning and spiritual growth.
  • "Read your Bible, kids. It really does work." ([28:26])

---

Conclusion The episode concludes with Carol expressing her appreciation for Tony's insights and encouraging listeners to explore his work further. Tony emphasizes the importance of reading scripture and continual personal development as keys to improving one's life.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Tony Kinnit on Teaching:

  • "I fell in love with teaching middle school students... I loved it." ([04:21])

• On Emotional Populism:

  • "We're probably going to kind of a closer look at whether the country goes down the road of emotional populism." ([19:15])

• Regarding Faith in Politics:

  • "It's weird to see this group of agnostics or cultural Christians who only think that the name Jesus being spoken means that, like, everything's hunky dory." ([23:42])

• Advice to Youth:

  • "Don't make plans... It will all happen." ([26:04])

---

Key Takeaways:

• Educational Institutions as Political Battlegrounds: Tony Kinnett highlights how education has become a central arena for political debates, intertwining with broader societal issues.

• Shift Towards Emotional Populism: There's a potential movement in American politics towards decisions driven by emotions rather than principles, impacting how citizens engage with policies and governance.

• Manipulation of Faith in Political Discourse: The misuse of religious rhetoric for political gain poses challenges to authentic faith representation and societal values.

• Personal Growth and Adaptability: Tony's journey underscores the importance of flexibility, embracing unforeseen opportunities, and maintaining personal principles amidst evolving career landscapes.

---

Conclusion for New Listeners This episode offers a deep dive into the intersection of education, politics, and media through the lens of Tony Kinnit’s experiences and insights. Listeners gain a nuanced understanding of how educational policies become politicized and the broader implications for American society. Tony's personal anecdotes and thoughtful reflections provide valuable lessons on adaptability, the importance of faith, and the evolving nature of political discourse.

Transcript

[Carol Markowitz]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Hi and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Tony Kinnit. Tony is national correspondent for the Daily Signal and host of the nationally syndicated Tony Kinnit cast and the Daily Signals. Top news in 10. Hi Tony. So nice to have you on.

[Tony Kinnit]

Hi. Sorry about the mouthful there.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love it. I feel like you deserve every one of those words, so it's okay.

[Tony Kinnit]

If it's any consolation, I tried very hard to originally when it was just a tiny radio show in Indianapolis to have it named anything else at all. And the station manager said, no, it needs to be branded to your name, kid. And so it stuck forever.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I mean, I hear you, Carol Marguccio. You have to put your name right in it. So tell me about your path to getting into this thing of ours. I know you were a teacher. How did you make the change?

[Tony Kinnit]

Oh, man, I mean, I'd mess around with like video and audio stuff and politics as a kid. I always enjoyed it. When I was in college, I worked in Governor Scott Walker's office in Wisconsin a little bit. Did a little bit of theater and acting stuff. Not as a major, God forbid, but just as God forbid. Yeah, just someone that just you know, kind of over on the sidelines enjoyed a little bit of everything. And I got into teaching mostly because I knew I wanted to do some science y something. I thought it was a path to it at first because everyone likes ed majors. But I got into teaching in college the first couple of times and fell in love with it. The click moment, like when it all makes sense. Like the light bulb just turns on. I fell in love with that. And so I really enjoyed teaching middle school students, which everyone else said was the worst. Basically courting death. Yeah, right.

[Carol Markowitz]

The worst people ever. Yeah.

[Tony Kinnit]

But I like because they were, they were smart enough to zip up their own pants. Like they didn't need help doing any of the basic skills, but they also were not Too cool for school yet where they hated you and they hated your class. So they were smart enough to get the concepts and not cool enough to get excited about it. And I loved it. So if you've ever seen the movie Hoosiers, I started the. My teaching career, two years teaching in the school that they shot that movie in, which was a really cool experience. Loved it. Got teacher of the year my first two years. And that was not a wow. I must be God's gift to education. As much as I thought something might be a little wrong here because I'm not like, Ms. Frizzle, you know, seat belts, everyone.

[Carol Markowitz]

I wasn't like, I'm pretty good at this. I don't know.

[Tony Kinnit]

I didn't think I was all that in a bag of chips. I thought, that's a little strange. This girl that I had dated a little bit in college, who was a granddaughter of this Wisconsin representative, invited me to write for this tiny publication that had just started called Loan Conservative, formerly Cassie Dillon, now Cassie Akiva, was running. And I wrote a couple of articles for it. Loved it. I just fell in love with writing. Got two master's degrees in education just because I enjoyed it. I don't know. Something about getting in there and writing about what we're talking about, doing the research and getting things solved, making improvements. It's that ambition that I think comes naturally to a lot of young men and women in the United States. Something about the last of the Millennials has this surge of a desire for achievement that is really never been quantified, but it's a really incredible thing to look at. So got married and then moved to Indianapolis to this school I always wanted to teach at. That was not my expectation. And then became a science administrator way too early. So I was over like 200 teachers in Indianapolis Public schools. The director of science and this up young, up and coming administrator, the NPR affiliate wanted to have me on to talk about distance learning and all of this other stuff. And I just, I couldn't stand it. The stuff we were being asked to do, ironically enough, was the stuff that I was studying in college, kind of as a. Some people watch those, like, fail videos online or like, like bad construction falls apart and you just get hooked on watching it. That was me with Critical Race Theory. I loved it. I can't tear my eyes away. And so eventually by that point, we had started this education publication called Chalkboard Review, because I couldn't get my education writings published in Ed Week or Chalk Beat or any of them, which was crazy because I wasn't even writing political pieces, which I know that you have a passion for, being able to write and talk apolitically in the normal life, not just always going all in all the time. So I. We started that publication. It took off because again, it was an open forum where our audience would decide whether the article was good or not. Not my editing team. And eventually I just couldn't take it at IPS anymore that we were being asked directly to lie to our parents and teachers. That's not an exaggeration. They gave us a script and told us how to do it. And I also would see people who I studied and sat in the classes of while I was at college in Wisconsin being brought in to laugh at parents and teachers again, almost overtly.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Tony Kinnit]

So one morning In October of 21, I woke up and I just decided I'd had it. Something snapped, I think. So I went. This little tiny.

[Carol Markowitz]

October 2021 was kind of a rough time.

[Tony Kinnit]

Yeah. It was right before Youngkin's election. I remember because Nicole Wallace had said, critical race theory, which isn't real. And like, that was. There's gas lighting and then there's like napalm lighting. That's what that was. And this little tiny corner of a spare bedroom that we had that I had thrown up a $20 Home Depot fake wood panel. Now I have the $60 fake wood Home Depot panel. Moving up in the world.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, it looks really good, actually.

[Tony Kinnit]

Thank you. I sat down and said, when we tell you that critical race theory isn't in schools, we're lying to you. Keep looking. And I showed all of these citations because I was former science teacher. Citations were how I did my stuff, how I did my writing. And it went viral. And, you know, by that afternoon, it was blowing up. I'm sitting there at work in my office thinking, how long is it going to be until I get the HR email? And so went on Tucker Carlson, I think the next night. And it just went downhill from there. They banned me from coming back to the school. They said I had caused psychological trauma to my colleagues whom I hadn't named. It was very strange. Took him two months to fire me while my wife was pregnant with our first. They actually fired me while she was in the delivery room.

[Carol Markowitz]

Wow.

[Tony Kinnit]

Which was, you know, of course.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. A little traumatic.

[Tony Kinnit]

Right, right. And so after that, just kind of hopped into this thing full time. Ran an education nonprofit for a while, started guest hosting and doing segments on a local radio station in Indianapolis, which turned into a Saturday show, which then turned into A weeknightly show, and then the Daily Signal acquired it, and now it's nationally syndicated broadcast podcast.

[Carol Markowitz]

What a story. That's incredible. Do you still consider education kind of your beat?

[Tony Kinnit]

Yes and no. I love education because I associate you with education.

[Carol Markowitz]

I know you talk about lots of stuff, but I don't think of you as the education guy.

[Tony Kinnit]

Well, I mean, when you get involved in education and you're writing alongside Cory DeAngelis, I used to run an education publication. You know, you work with Chris Ruffo and I work together a long time. It's very easy to still. And I still do talk about a lot of education. Most of my obsession these days is probably in developmental and pattern psychology. So I really enjoy, for example, right now in covering just a lot of the riots and things around the country. The psychology of these events and what they mean to the American people is deeply fascinating to me and the media ecosystem behind it. I've become kind of a media hawk. And though education is still a huge part of that, because education was the focus of the media in the last 10 years, now it's kind of expanding beyond that. Education is a huge part of every policy issue, and so is media. So as I've moved from education stuff into kind of general commentary, it remains a bit of flavoring that I can add to conversations here and there, which do take my debate opponents on, like, network TV hits off guard. You know, it's a pretty minor part of what I do now, although I still do love it.

[Carol Markowitz]

I feel like there's. Education is just one battleground in the Omni cause thing that's going on around the country.

[Tony Kinnit]

You know, good choice of words.

[Carol Markowitz]

The riots and all of that. It all comes down to. It's like a one blob of all these different issues. And education is just one kind of subsect of it. It's like they. They push the agenda, their agenda in school, but they also push it on the streets and media and all these different places. So I don't see education as a separate front is all I'm saying.

[Tony Kinnit]

No, I think that's fair when I say that education isn't my main focus. I do a little bit of education policy advising, and I used to do a lot more of it. I don't really throw all of my weight into that anymore. Just like, I don't really do investigative column work and write as much as I used to, Although I miss it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, me too.

[Tony Kinnit]

There's. There's a lot of broadcast work that just involves being plugged in. And when you're not plugged in, you're reading. And so there's very little time for me to investigate every nook and cranny. But the pattern recognition kind of the developmental psychology that's a huge facet of health science right NOW, or the LGBTQ2IA and the transgender hormone stuff is appealing to me as a science teacher. But it's so like you said, it's all part of this omni cause to an extent where even if I'm covering, you know, some kind of a pro Hamas riot, it's very likely I'm still gonna touch on the hormone stuff regarding trans issues.

[Carol Markowitz]

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[Tony Kinnit]

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[Carol Markowitz]

What do you think is kind of the next frontier that we're going to be talking about that maybe we're not talking about quite yet? I think for example, trans sports really came in hot and that's been a big topic for the last few years. We're recording this. My episodes air several weeks after I record, but we're recording this right after the Simone Biles, Riley Gaines thing happened. Do you see something big like that on the horizon?

[Tony Kinnit]

I think that it's more likely than kind of digging into a specific sports area or a media era because a lot of the boycott, economy driven style advocacy is really lost touch. We are leaving that era in politics.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Tony Kinnit]

Instead I think that we're probably going to kind of a closer look at whether the country goes down the road of emotional populism, which is where I see this. I don't like it. Therefore it change changes.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Tony Kinnit]

Or kind of a principles based. This is how things ought to be. I think that realistically in the next couple of weeks, by the time this airs, we might be having a discussion along the lines of what does it mean to have kind of constitutional rights and what is and is not how we express that as voters? Ergo, how involved does the average citizen need to be? What does it mean to be a citizen?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Tony Kinnit]

I think that's coming down the pike is kind of the next core argument because fundamentally this is something that for years Americans agreed on, we no longer agree on. And so we're peeling away all of the outgrowth of that and that will eventually be the core that we have to address. Whether that's a month from now or a year from now. Anybody's guess.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's so interesting. How do you see us addressing it? That's a very good take, I think. I hadn't thought of that as kind of the next frontier. What do you think that will be? Will there be think pieces in the New York Times about it or.

[Tony Kinnit]

Yeah, but no one's gonna read them.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Tony Kinnit]

I mean there'll be think pieces everywhere because that's. And there will be the TikTok and the Instagram videos of people giving their more likely.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right.

[Tony Kinnit]

90 second two minute views. And they'll all be very surface level and they'll all misconstrue and mis. Cite historical data.

[Carol Markowitz]

They have to.

[Tony Kinnit]

Yeah, right. From both sides, unfortunately from the populace and kind of the more establishmentary and views on this, I can't really say where it's gonna go. That's why what's coming next has captivated me so that we are as a nation gonna have to figure this out. I mean, my personal views on this have shifted. My favorite book has stopped being the Count of Monte Cristo and has started being a book called Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, which is a political philosophy book very narrowly masquerading as a sci fi novel out of the late 50s.

[Carol Markowitz]

Interesting.

[Tony Kinnit]

And it's the political discussion in there about what it means to be a citizen changed kind of my outlook on politics as a whole a couple of years ago. And I think that now that we're heading into that, a lot of my anticipation, my predictions perhaps are clouded by already thinking about what I'm going to bring to that conversation because I'm used to working with the establishment area and the populace, the libertarian, the traditional whatevers. So it's really open game here because you've got to think about, you've got Rubio and Vance, very different people. I mean, you've got in the media sphere, you have huge entities who are very separated from each other ideology ideologically. Although on immigration and law enforcement there's a lot of unity. When we just saw Elon Musk and Trump go apart and then back together in the spans of like two weeks.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, are they back together? We'll see, right? I mean, those guys, I hope they find their way back to each other for real.

[Tony Kinnit]

But now kids, I mean, I think that there's an element here. In a couple of weeks we'll know whether I'm right or wrong. I don't think it matters as much whether they're out singing, you know, sugar, sugar, honey, honey. I think that it's a better argument is Elon Musk was already kind of phasing his way out anyway because Trump is busy, Musk is busy. There are other things to attend to that with Elon Musk sharing Trump stuff. I guarantee you a week from now Trump says something like, yeah, I said he could do it every once. And I think we're all, you know, that Kind of a thing. That's where it should be. I mean, I don't think that right now Elon Musk gluing himself to Trump is what really either of them wants. And so in a very ironic way, and I very much disagree with the it was all planned maneuver. Oh, no, because I don't think it.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, it was all planned that Elon was gonna call him basically a child molester, like I.

[Tony Kinnit]

And then come out and say he regrets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Last night, said he. Last night, when we're recording this, came out and said he regrets saying like 90% of it. Again, I think that the arguments at play here, no one really knows how deep we're gonna get into this.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Tony Kinnit]

Because sometimes the populace like scratches the surface and makes a good choice or a bad choice, sometimes it sticks. And then we're just stuck in this cycle because of some horrible news comment or a really silly trend.

[Carol Markowitz]

What do you worry about?

[Tony Kinnit]

I worry about the kind of manipulation of faith in order to stress political points that have nothing to do with the faith. In the last couple of months, we've seen this like, weird woke right debate. And I've seen a lot of individuals who aren't a member of the Christian faith make arguments about the faith that are basically like the left saying they don't believe in Jesus, they don't believe in a God or anything like that, but they're going to lecture you on theology. I've seen that on the right problem that derives from that is that's yet another common facet of culture that Americans once had, which was this principles based understanding of theology that is now being eroded away for cheap talking points either against Israel or against Protestants or against Catholics on the other side. And it's not useful. As someone who is deeply invested in seeing individuals develop a relationship with Christ, it's weird to see this group of agnostics or cultural Christians who only think that the name Jesus being spoken means that, like, everything's hunky dory.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Tony Kinnit]

I think that's one of the things that worries me, that I don't like seeing a good cause basically dragged through the mud or attached to things that are gross simply because the cause itself is considered a good thing. So therefore I can staple it onto my chest and now you'll think I'm a good person.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Where do you see that going? Can it be fixed?

[Tony Kinnit]

Yeah, it can definitely be fixed. It's one of the things that I wrestle with as a broadcaster because I don't want to come off off as someone who's just kind of doing street preacher level stuff, but at the same time, because my show's not about, you know, shows that you are not, not, you know, necessarily about proselytizing and witnessing, yet I'm called to, to be an ambassador for Christ. So it's something that I, I. On a personal level, I'm trying to figure out how best to get in these conversations without steering whole groups away or getting into irreplaceable arguments or that kind of a thing. So tough it is as to where the country goes on it, I don't know. I don't think it's decided and that's why it's something I worry about.

[Carol Markowitz]

What advice would you give your 16 year old self having to kind of do it all over again. What does 16 year old Tony need to know?

[Tony Kinnit]

Don't make plans.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's a quick answer.

[Tony Kinnit]

Oh, seriously. Every time I've made, I've made so many five year plans and every single one of them have just been. Nope. All of the stuff that I've done have essentially been opportunities that were plop down at my feet. So, you know, whenever I see that kind of advice question that, that question that you'd sent earlier, I did ponder over that one for like three or four days.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Tony Kinnit]

And it's just don't do, don't, don't make plans.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Tony Kinnit]

Don't. And it'll, it will all happen. I know that's a kind of a weird thing that a lot of adults say to teenagers, like it'll all happen, relax. But I don't know if there's a way.

[Carol Markowitz]

But yeah, yeah.

[Tony Kinnit]

I don't know if there's a way I could say that to my younger self that I would believe me. But I mean, you know, it's worth saying anyway, men, plans.

[Carol Markowitz]

God laughs, right?

[Tony Kinnit]

Oh, and man, he's had quite the comedy show with me and planning same.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean I moved into my dream house in Brooklyn March 2020 and was like, I am never moving again. You know, I live in Florida now, so.

[Tony Kinnit]

Well, congratulations and I don't blame you. We almost built a house in the last year and then decided not to and then built this new studio so that I could have a space where there wasn't screaming and children. Yeah, the children doing the screaming for the record, I mean that, that, that kind of the plans that just continue shift. I wasn't planning on being a broadcaster ever. That was never something that I was. I thought all of the people who majored in that would have all of those jobs.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Tony Kinnit]

So I never imagined. And now, I mean, it's. I really am kind of taken aback every day by. By the change in everything.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love it. Well, I have loved this conversation. I've been a big fan of yours for a long time.

[Tony Kinnit]

That's very kind.

[Carol Markowitz]

Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can.

[Tony Kinnit]

Improve their lives for Carol's listeners. Obviously, if you're for listening to Carol, you're already doing a lot of things correctly. I mean, I don't have to tell you that I've been one of her listeners for a while. But I'll say this. The best tip that I can give you is there are a lot of fantastic books that you can read and you can study and you should be reading, you should be practicing writing. It keeps you mentally healthy. It keeps you astute. But make sure that one of those books is in fact scripture because that gives you a closer touchstone to humanity, to what's going on. And also better skills on analysis than just about anything that you'll do.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love it. Read your Bible, kids. It really does work. Thank you so much, Tony. He is Tony Knitt. Check him out at the Daily Signal and at the Tony Connnett cast and at Top news in 10 on the daily Signal site. Thank you so much, Tony.

[Tony Kinnit]

Thanks, Carol.

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