The Karol Markowicz Show: Israel, History & AI: Mario Loyola on Democracy, Threats, and the Future

Summary

---

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (The Karol Markowicz Show: Israel, History & AI: Mario Loyola on Democracy, Threats, and the Future)
Date: November 14, 2025
Host: Carol Markowitz
Guest: Mario Loyola, Senior Fellow at Heritage Foundation, Law Professor at Florida International University

Episode Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging conversation between journalist Carol Markowitz and Mario Loyola, touching on Israel's place in the world, the power and challenges of democracy, lessons from Jewish history, the nature of propaganda around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the optimistic potential of artificial intelligence. Loyola brings a blend of personal narrative, historical insight, and policy analysis, maintaining an intellectually engaged yet informal tone throughout.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mario Loyola’s Connection to Israel and Jewish History

• Personal & Academic Beginnings:
  • Loyola recounts his journey from academic interest in Jewish and European history to a more personal and emotional connection with Israel and Jewish people.
  • Quote: “Anybody, any fair-minded person who studies a lot of Russian and German history is gonna feel very protective of Jewish people.” (04:28)
• Learning Through Historical Study:
  • Loyola describes studying history as a means of better understanding conflicts like the Second Intifada.
  • Memorable anecdote: Reading about the Lebanon War and Sabra and Shatila just before 9/11. (05:20)

2. Defending Israel in Contemporary Discourse

• Cost of Public Support:
  • Discussion of social backlash against supporters of Israel on social media.
  • Quote: “If you tweet anything supportive of Israel... you get comments like, ‘oh, you’re being paid $7,000 for this tweet.’ I keep waiting for that cash.” — Carol Markowitz (06:18)
• Nuances in Advocacy:
  • Loyola jokes, “Defending Jewish peoples, it involves a really astonishing amount of time arguing with Jewish people.” (06:51)

3. Historical Parallels & the Seduction of Nazism

• Fragility of Enlightened Societies:
  • Loyola draws connections between Nazi Germany’s intellectual heritage and its descent into savagery, warning that any society can fall to dangerous narratives.
  • Quote: “If it can happen to the Germans, maybe it can… maybe it’s the Leviathan in ourselves.” (07:00)
• Contemporary Parallels:
  • Observes how toxic victim narratives can be manipulated today, likening current campus and activist trends to historic propaganda.
  • “For those… who are wondering how Nazism was able to seduce so many German university students… now you’re watching it all around you.” (08:07)

4. Identity and Propaganda in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

• Changing Definitions:
  • Loyola points out that the term “Palestinian” historically often referred to Jews living in Palestine, highlighting the power of propaganda and redefinition.
  • Quote: “The word Palestinian was most likely being used to describe a Jewish person.” (08:06)

5. Democracies, Weakness, and The Need For Determination

• Lessons from WWII:
  • Explains his fascination with international affairs stemming from the failures of democracies to check Hitler’s rise.
  • Quote: “There were many points in time when it was obvious what would happen if they didn’t act to intervene… And yet, because they were so enthralled by self-determination… they allowed themselves to be lulled...” (09:08-10:53)

6. Why Democracies Must Stand Together Today

• Contemporary Skepticism:
  • Markowitz notes a new skepticism about using shared democratic values to justify international alliances, following nation-building failures in the Middle East.
  • Loyola responds that as long as Israel is surrounded by moribund societies, conflict is inevitable, and flourishing societies are key for peace.
  • Quote: “As long as Israel is not surrounded by similarly flourishing societies, there’s going to be a problem there.” (18:59)
• Significance of Markets and Democratic Values:
  • Loyola advocates for markets, property rights, and freedoms as traditional democratic values, crucial both for Israel and its neighbors. (19:27)

7. On Personal Growth and Learning from Jewish Culture

• Reflection:
  • Loyola describes his pride in building friendships with Jewish people and gaining inspiration from Jewish traditions of learning, forgiveness, and idealism.
  • Quote: “Jewish people have really been a blessing to me and are a blessing.” (21:08)
• On Studying and Law:
  • Comparative praise for Talmudic commentary and the Jewish tradition of elevating the role of student: “One of the cultures in the world where being a student gives you the highest social status possible.” (24:22)

8. Gaza, Ceasefire, and The True Road to Peace

• Skepticism About Lasting Peace:

  • Loyola expresses doubts about new leadership in Gaza not run by Hamas and stresses that true ending of conflict can only happen after “unconditional surrender” of Hamas.
  • Quote: “If Hamas is allowed to stand, if Hamas is left standing at the end of this conflict, then the conflict must continue because there will never be coexistence with Hamas.” (28:55)

• Reluctance Toward Occupation:

  • Both agree that no one wants a military occupation of Gaza – not Israelis, not Palestinians.
  • Quote: “You would rather occupy… a moon of Saturn than occupy Gaza. Nobody in the world wants to occupy Gaza.” (29:18)

• Israeli Self-Restraint:

  • Loyola credits Israeli self-restraint as a core perpetuating factor in the conflict and something underappreciated by critics.
  • Quote: “One of the great perpetuating factors of this conflict is Israeli self-restraint.” (30:31)

9. Changing Regional Dynamics

• Arab Isolation of Hamas:
  • Loyola notes that Palestinian terrorists are increasingly isolated in the Arab world, with their main support coming from Iran.
  • “The Arab terrorists of Palestine are isolated… Their main source of support has actually been a non-Arab state of Iran.” (31:13)
• Hopeful Signs:
  • Emphasizes that “the resistance” may never have been as isolated as it is now, offering some hope for change. (31:47)

10. Five-Year Outlook & Artificial Intelligence

• Optimism on AI:
  • Loyola’s prediction: AI heralds massive democratization of productivity and invention, with individuals gaining access to previously corporate-level creative tools.
  • Quote: “This is maybe the greatest democratization of the means of economic production that we’ve ever seen.” (37:29)
  • Comparison: “It’s going to unleash a new sort of age of competition and invention that I think will be just as great a boon to human progress as electricity was.” (38:43)

11. Closing Advice

• Read Widely, Make Time:
  • Loyola’s tip: “Read history books on your spare time and make as much spare time as you can.” (39:17)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Complexity of Solidarity:

  • “Defending Jewish peoples, it involves a really astonishing amount of time arguing with Jewish people.” — Mario Loyola (06:51)

• On Social Media Misinformation:

  • “If you tweet anything supportive of Israel... you get comments like, ‘oh, you’re being paid $7,000 for this tweet.’” — Carol Markowitz (06:18)

• On the Temptation of Utopian Narratives:

  • “Victim narratives are very toxic and they’re very easy to manipulate.” — Mario Loyola (08:07)

• On the Modern Propaganda Battle:

  • “All of these words have like made up definitions, right? The whole thing is like this propaganda psyop.” — Mario Loyola (08:07)

• On Lessons From the Jewish Tradition:

  • “What have we learned from them? ... To be really thoughtful, to really try to think about things from other people’s point of view and to be, very idealistic.” — Mario Loyola (22:15)

• On the Path Forward After Conflict:

  • “It can only end in unconditional surrender. And so the only alternative to Hamas… is a military occupation and a military government.” — Mario Loyola (29:14)

• On AI’s Transformative Influence:

  • “I think the doomers are Luddites… This is maybe the greatest democratization of the means of economic production that we've ever seen.” — Mario Loyola (37:25)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Mario Loyola Introduced & Early Career: 03:20 – 04:28
• Jewish History, Israel, and Academia: 04:28 – 06:18
• Public Defense of Israel & Social Media Backlash: 06:18 – 07:52
• Nazism, Propaganda, and Modern Parallels: 07:00 – 09:04
• International Affairs & WWII Lessons: 09:08 – 10:53
• Debating Democracy’s Value and Limitations: 17:24 – 19:58
• Mario’s Personal Growth and Views on Judaism: 21:04 – 24:22
• Current Israel-Hamas Conflict Analysis: 24:34 – 31:57
• AI and Hope for the Future: 37:05 – 39:00
• Closing Advice: 39:17 – 39:23

---

Episode Takeaway

A thoughtful exploration of how history, ideology, and personal relationships shape our understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the responsibilities of democracies. Loyola’s optimism about technology and faith in historical wisdom offer an antidote to cynicism, emphasizing the value of rigorous study and perspective-taking in a turbulent world.

Transcript

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

This is an iHeart podcast. Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? Wash away your worries with Anabe. Annabe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabric. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallic, allergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Shop washablesofas.com for early Black Friday savings up to 60% off site wide backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back Upgrade [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Saks off fifth is revealing the season's most wanted holiday steals. Whether you're gifting someone on your list or treating yourself to a designer score, find deals on McQueen, Valentino, Versace, Stuart Weitzman and more at up to 70% off every day, outshine at every event and outsmart your budget. From shimmer ready party looks to luxe layers and cozy giftable Accessories, Saks off 5th is your secret source for celebrating in style. Your holiday shopping starts [e-mail] or a Saks off 5th store near you.

[Commercial Voice]

Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. A gift that tells the story and shows you know theirs, that doesn't just sparkle but speaks.

[Mario Loyola]

From new festive charms to forever rings.

[Commercial Voice]

And personal engravings, this season give a.

[Mario Loyola]

Gift that's perfectly theirs.

[Commercial Voice]

Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship, or a heartfelt gift for a family member. Say more this holiday season with Pandora.

[Mario Loyola]

Shop [e-mail] or visit your closest Pandora store.

[Commercial Voice]

Managing multiple accounts and logins for your marketing needs is like managing multiple announcers for one ad.

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

Confusing, but with mailchimp's new SMS features, you can reach all your customers in over 10 countries, all from one account, giving you more time, driving more conversions and improving campaign performance. One platform, many audiences, endless possibilities. That's how you MailChimp your marketing with SMS. Tap the banner to learn more.

[Commercial Voice]

The world is buzzing with AI tools, but instead of making things easier, they've made things overwhelming. There's A better way. Meet Superhuman, the AI productivity suite that gives you superpowers so you can outsmart the word chaos with Grammarly mail and coda. Working together, you get proactive help across your workflow. No matter how you work, experience AI that meets you right where you are. Learn [e-mail] podcast that's superhuman.com podcast.

[Carol Markowitz]

Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Mario Loyola, the senior fellow in law, Economics and Technology at the Heritage foundation and a professor at Florida International University. He's also a frequent contributor to National Review, Wall Street Journal, and many others. And a friend of mine. Hi, Mario. So nice to have you on.

[Mario Loyola]

Hi, Carol. Thanks for having me on.

[Carol Markowitz]

You know, I associate you so closely with Florida, but you're kind of a DC guy, no? Am I wrong about that?

[Mario Loyola]

Oh, my God. It's like the worst thing you could have said.

[Carol Markowitz]

Is that an insult? Did I just, like, hurt your feelings?

[Mario Loyola]

This is exactly the time of the year when I start to get District of Columbia affective disorder and really wish that I was on the beach where I belong.

[Commercial Voice]

Come home.

[Carol Markowitz]

What are we doing?

[Mario Loyola]

Yeah, well, you might be seeing me down there sooner than you think.

[Carol Markowitz]

Okay, good, good. So I've known you a long time. I think of you as a very international affairs guy. You're not Jewish, but you have what I would consider a special relationship with Jews and with Israel. Would that be a fair assessment?

[Mario Loyola]

Yeah, absolutely. That's, you know, it's been a long time in the making. I think maybe I'll write an article about this journey, I guess, one of these days. But this is a subject that, you know, was, when I started out, was almost entirely an academic of academic interest to me. I had never really. I was in college, I majored in European history at the University of Wisconsin and which is really a focus on Russian and German history. And so, of course, anybody, any fair minded person who studies a lot of Russian and German history is gonna feel, you know, is gonna come out of that experience feeling very protective of Jewish people. But, but this was really, really just one of many sort of strands of history that I always wanted to know more and more about, like military history, back to classical times. And so I was building up my library of Jewish history. And I actually remember picking up, I used to, when I was living in New York City, I remember picking up at the Strand this wonderful history of Israel by. I think it's Howard Zacher's history of Israel. And this was around the time that the Second Intifada had just started. And so everybody in New York City, of course, instantly had an opinion about this conflict. And I didn't know what my opinion was, but I knew that none of these other people who had very strong opinions about it had any idea what they were talking about. So I decided to start reading. And I spent the summer of 2001. I remember taking this history of Israel to Tompkins Square and sitting interesting time in Tompkins Square and then there. And I remember reading the September 9th of 2001. I was reading about the Lebanon War, and I was up to Sabra and Shatila, when all of a sudden, the book sucked me into its narrative.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's not a great time to be a friend to Jews right now. Like, if you tweet anything supportive of Israel or of the Jewish community, you get comments like, oh, you're being paid $7,000 for this twee. I keep waiting for that cash and it never hits my bank account. I think it's probably the same for you. The money just never arrives from Benjamin Netanyahu. Why do you do it?

[Mario Loyola]

Well, I've actually been promised honorary Israeli citizenship by the. No, I'm just.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's easier, actually. Actually, that you might get.

[Mario Loyola]

I have discovered that defending. Defending Jewish peoples, it involves a really astonishing amount of time arguing with Jewish people. But anyway, that's another.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sorry about that.

[Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

But no, that's another topic. But I will. This is something that, you know, one of my preoccupations in college was, was how did this. You know, this. The German people, the. The most literate society in the world, right? The first society to achieve 95% literacy. The people who, you know, the society that gave us Bach and Mozart and these wonderful philosophers and the greatest, Many, so many of the greatest scientists in history. How did these people fall for such a primitive and savage and sadistic cult? Nazism. And it just made me wonder, God, if it can happen to the Germans, maybe it can. Maybe it's something. Maybe it's the Leviathan in ourselves. Right? And. And. And, you know, but it still seemed, for most of my adult life, it seems so far away. Right. Because the one thing we could all agree on was that Nazism is bad. Right?

[Carol Markowitz]

It was an easy call. Right?

[Mario Loyola]

Yeah. Easy call. And now you. And now, you know, for those of. For the people who are wondering how it was that Nazism was able to seduce so many German university students and musicians.

[Carol Markowitz]

See it up close.

[Mario Loyola]

Chicken farmers. Now you're watching it all around you, right? And you see what it is is that these victim narratives are very toxic and they're very easy to manipulate. And you, you know, you get into it and you think, free Palestine, of course, well, why shouldn't we free Palestine? The Palestine Palestinians need to be free. And people don't realize that. If you actually study the history of this whole thing, all of these words have like made up definitions, right. The whole thing is like this propaganda psyop. And deconstructing that history is very, very important. Right. Because as you've pointed out, as I've pointed out a hundred years ago, the word Palestinian was most likely being used to describe a Jewish person. Right. Because a Palestinian is somebody who lives in Palestine. There's 50 nationalities in Palestine. I have an Encyclopedia Britannica which I also bought at the Strand from 1911 or something. There's a very long article on Palestine in there. But the word Palestinian does not appear once.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right. Did you always want to go into international affairs?

[Mario Loyola]

I did. I always wanted to go into international affairs from when I started reading, when I started reading history. I mean, it was. I had the conviction that, you know, that the reason why World War II happened was that there was something that gave a, a dictatorship more freedom of action. Right. I mean, Adolf Hitler could show up in the morning, say one thing to the industrialists and another thing to the labor unions in the afternoon. And that there was something about the response of the democracies as the Nazis rose to power and as Germany armed for war that was like very paralyzed, right. I mean, very sluggish. There were many points in time when it was like obvious what would happen if they didn't act to intervene. For example. Let's just take an example. To prevent the union of, of Austria and Germany, which left, you know, Czechoslovakia surrounded on three sides. It was obvious that if this union was allowed to proceed, that the German, Germany's ability to conquer Europe would become somewhat unstoppable.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mario Loyola]

And yet, because they were like so, you know, enthralled by self determination and the Wilsons, 14 points and all of these like paper things, they and their pacifist publics, they allowed themselves to be lulled into this, you know, we call it appeasement in the West. But the French have a better term for it, which is atantisme, which is just not to appease but to wait, right? Just wait for this thing to go away. And they were just lulled into like waiting, waiting around while, you know, these, these devils armed for war. And it just filled me with the conviction that in international relations we needed to democracies to defend themselves, needed to have the capacity for much faster action.

[Commercial Voice]

More coming up with Mario Loyola. But first, history shows that every market eventually falls, every currency collapses and today the US Dollar is hanging by a thread. Trillions in national debt record high markets defying gravity. But stocks can't go up forever. Meanwhile your groceries, housing and transportation costs are all going up and your dollar, it's buying less every single day. If the system breaks, your stocks and dollars won't save you. But one thing will. Gold. Gold has always survived a collapse. That's why central banks are buying gold by the ton and billionaires are stocking up and everyday Americans are protecting their savings and retirement with physical gold before the next shoe drops. Don't wait for headlines when the panic sets in. It's too late. Call Lear capital now at 786-80-500 to get your free 202025 gold investment kit and protect your wealth if the system breaks with real physical gold. With over $3 billion in transactions and thousands of five star reviews, Lear is your leading source. Call now and also get up to $15,000 in bonus gold with a qualified purchase. Call 800-786-8500. That's 800-786-8500. Keep in mind that any investment has a certain amount of risk associated with it and you should only invest if you can afford to bear the risk of loss. Before making investment decisions, you should carefully consider and review all risks involved. The Carol Markowitz show continues right after this.

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Annabe sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa. From top to bottom, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Anna Bay has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699 and right now get early access to Black Friday savings up to 60% off storewide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Voice]

History shows that every market eventually falls, every currency collapses and today the US Dollar is hanging by a thread. Trillions in national debt, record high markets defying gravity. But stocks can't go up forever. Meanwhile, your groceries, housing and transportation costs are all going up and your dollar, it's buying less every single day. So when the system breaks, when the crash hits, your stocks won't save you and your dollars won't either. But one thing will. Gold. Gold has always survived a collapse. That's why central banks are buying gold by the ton and billionaires are stocking up and everyday Americans are protecting their savings and retirement with physical gold before the next shoe drops. Don't wait for the headlines when the panic sets in, it's too late. Call Lear Capital now at 800-786-8500 to get your free gold investment kit and protect your wealth if the system breaks with real physical gold. With over $3 billion in transactions and thousands of five star reviews, Lear is your leading source. Call now and also get up to $15,000 in bonus gold with a qualified purchase. Call 800-786-8500. That's 800-786-8500. Keep in mind that any investment has a certain amount of risk associated with it and you should only invest if you can afford to be loss. Before making investment decisions, you should carefully consider and review all risks involved.

As a sports fan, you want the best way to watch your favorite teams at home and now you can experience game day in all its glory with a 2025 Samsung Superbig TV. It's super big and super clear, giving you a closer view than the sidelines and you can go big without the blur thanks to Super Sized Picture Enhancer. Select Black Friday deals start next. Now go big and save big on the ultimate fan worthy [e-mail] sales dates vary by model. Super Sized Picture Enhancer utilizes AI based formulas available on 85 inch and larger TVs on models QN70F and above. Managing multiple accounts and logins for your marketing needs is like managing multiple announcers for one ad.

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

Confusing, but with mailchimp's new SMS features you can reach all your customers in over 10 countries all from one account, giving you more time, driving more conversions and improving campaign performance. One platform, many audiences, endless possibilities. That's how you MailChimp your marketing with SMS. Tap the banner to learn more.

[Commercial Voice]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skincare system leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released on of the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningful beauty.com.

[Carol Markowitz]

You know, this is not a show about politics, but I find you so interesting and I want to hear what you have to say about this. I'm going to, I'm going to limit it to just, just a couple of questions, but it's not a hot time for the argument that democracies need to stand together. For example, even, you know, pro Israel people will say don't use the whole thing about we have common values, you know, it's irrelevant. And that there's this sense of like, because we had the nation building exercise with Iraq and we tried to bring democracy to these Arab lands, that it was a foolish thing that we did and therefore democracies have nothing in common and we shouldn't necessarily stand together. What do you say about that?

[Mario Loyola]

Well, this is, I've been to Israel many times and this is actually a topic of conversation that I have with Israelis. One thing I'll note is that, you know, part of what produces such a potentially explosive situation in the Middle east is almost like, you know, how a battery is like positive ions on one side of a membrane and then negative ions on another. You have this like the gradient formed by these opposite charges creates this enormous potential energy. And it's somewhat the same in the Middle east, right? Because you have this like very successful flourishing society in Israel and then these very moribund systems on the other side. And to some extent the potential for conflict is always going to be there as long as that, you know, that differential exists. Right. And so I think that it's. One point that I like to make is that as long as they're, as long as Israel is not surrounded by similarly flourishing societies, there's Going to be a problem there.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mario Loyola]

And this is an important point to make to Israelis because I feel like Israelis are, you know, the, the furthest. The most conservative Israeli politician is like, in many ways to the left of the Democratic Party when it comes to a lot of economic regulation.

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, and other things too. I think that most people in Israel I would describe as just flat out anti war.

[Mario Loyola]

Yeah, anti war, but also like kind of socialist. Right.

[Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

And, and, and, and I think that they don't realize how much, how much markets and property rights and freedom of association and freedom of these basic democratic values that are traditional, well, at least pre progressive values from the founding of the United States. This is, this is really the answer for Israel and for all the region. Right. Is just to have flourishing societies in which people can find their own way and invent their own futures and people can really provide for their children.

[Carol Markowitz]

So what would have been Mario's Plan B if you didn't go into international affairs?

[Mario Loyola]

Well, actually, the Plan B that I, when I went to law school, I remember from my first week in law school thinking to myself, you better have a plan B, because this could really have been a serious mistake.

[Carol Markowitz]

Was it?

[Mario Loyola]

And I think.

[Carol Markowitz]

Was it? Was it a mistake?

[Mario Loyola]

I'm not ready to answer that question yet. Ask me in a decade. But I think this is probably. Most law students are likely to feel in the first week of law school like they may have made a mistake. Major mistake. I remember having a Plan B at the time, which was that I felt confident that with a, like a sonar device, I would have a competitive advantage over other fishermen in Sri Lanka and I would just like, move to Sri Lanka and become like a successful.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure. That's my Plan B.

[Mario Loyola]

That was always, that was always my Plan B.

[Carol Markowitz]

You might still do that. Could that be something you do down the road, become the sonar fisherman of Sri Lanka?

[Mario Loyola]

It's possible. I've always wanted to. I've always wanted to get there. Haven't made it to the Indian side of the Indian Ocean yet, but I hope to soon.

[Carol Markowitz]

What are you most proud of in your life?

[Mario Loyola]

I mean, well, besides the obvious, having a family and my wonderful children and having very much married up. I would say that there is. I would say. What am I most proud of? Well, I think that I would say that my. One of the things I'm most proud of really, is my friendship with Jewish people and my relationship to Judaism. I've been. I've had the opportunity to study at tikvah institutes and these things. I'm Roman Catholic, of course, as I think you mentioned. And. But I really have come more and more. You know, I said at the Beginning, back around September 11, you know, the history of Judaism and of Jewish people was like a very academic, very interesting subject to me, but it was like a very academic subject. I didn't really have any personal relationship to it. And now over the years, have made so many great friends and, you know, have just. I just feel like, you know, like, Jewish people have really been a blessing to me and are a blessing.

[Carol Markowitz]

Not all of them, though. I know some of our mutual friends, you know, they can't all be blessings.

[Mario Loyola]

Well, but I think in general. Right. Like the Jewish people. Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Just messing with you, Mari.

[Mario Loyola]

But. And I think, you know, I think so. And what have, what have we learned from them? What have I learned from them is to be really thoughtful, to really try to think about things from other people's point of view and to be, in many ways, like, I think, very idealistic. Right. You know, to get back to politics, if you think about the situation that we're having now with Israel, this is a lot of Israelis put a lot of hope and a lot of idealism into the Oslo peace process, right into the withdrawal from Gaza. They were time and again willing to forgive.

[Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

People don't know this history, Right. But this is, you know, time and again they've responded to these, like, unspeakable acts of cruelty back to the Haifa massacre 100 years ago. Right. And they've been somehow been able to just be forgiving and, and, and be willing to let bygones be. Be bygones. I don't know how.

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

Same. I don't know how.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

And, and, and in the end, you know, have really been. And what do they want to do? They just want to be left alone to, like, study music. Right. And study the law and study economics and study things and create things. And I think that that is another thing that's really, that's really worthy of emulation. Right. And if you think about, about the Talmudic commentary, I mean, I've never studied the Talmud, but I have seen the Talmud.

[Carol Markowitz]

I'm studying it right now. It is extremely boring.

[Mario Loyola]

And. Well, and. But what do we do when we are thinking about text? Right. When we're thinking about editing a text or writing a text, is really looking very carefully at a small piece of text and kind of thinking about how, you know, all of the implications and all the things that it could mean. And this is like the right way to study law. Right. And it's just. It's just. Just such a, you know, an inspiration to study. Right. I mean, this is like, one of the cultures in the world where, like, being a student gives you, like, the highest.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

What is a rabbi? Rabbi is like, a student. Right. It gives you, like, the highest social status possible. It's not to be an athlete, but to be a student. Right. And I really. I really have. I feel like, have tried to live up to that.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're recording this a few days after the hostages came home in Israel and the ceasefire began. It's already a little tenuous. Hamas hasn't returned the bodies and there's been some skirmishes in Gaza. Are you hopeful about the future of Israel there? Are you hopeful about the whole region?

[Mario Loyola]

I am in some ways more hopeful about Israel than I am about a lot of democratic countries.

[Carol Markowitz]

I understand that. Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

But I will say that I think that, you know, the world has gotten. It's just amazing to me and very unfortunate the extent to which, like, this mind virus of the plo. PLO propaganda, right. Has. Which people. I mean, it just. You can't. It's like their every word chagrins you after a while. If you really understand, right. Like, we're not talking about the occupied territories. The Palestinian Liberation Organization already existed before, of course, any of these territories were occupied, right. Occupation really just means that you have a Jewish neighbor, right? That's really what occupation means. And the whole thing is like this big, highfalutin, you know, Marxist version of Juden Rhine policy. I say this because one of the things that, like, Western governments have come to accept even, like, on a bipartisan basis in the United States, even among friends of Israel. Besides this, like, two state solutions stuff that has been, like, obviously a fantasy since at least 2005, is this idea that, like, occupation is, like, the worst possible thing, right? This word occupation that means so many different things in the real world. You know, at the end, I was saying to a friend the other day that you're. You're. You're. You know, the likelihood that a person supports Israel is, like, directly proportional to how well they understand what happened in World War II. Right? And one thing that I've been saying from the beginning, you can go back and see. I had an article in National Review, October, I think it was just days after October 7th in 2023, where I pointed out, you know, that when there was civil war, General Donelson asked Ulysses S. Grant for ceasefire and what were his terms? And Ulysses S. Grant said, unconditional surrender. Those are the only terms that can be accepted. Right. I'm not going to negotiate terms with you. And obviously In World War II, there was a pact at the very beginning, actually this was the pact that led to the founding of the United nations, was an agreement among all the Allies not to seek a separate peace with the Nazis and to keep fighting until. Until the unconditional surrender of the Axis powers.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

And then this was really, really lit. A light really was illuminating for me. My first job in the government was at the Pentagon in what's called the Secretary's hallway, which is the hallway in the Pentagon. The Eisenhower hallway, it's called. Which is the hallway in the Pentagon that the, that the Secretary of Defense's office is on. It's called the Eisenhower hallway. And there are like little cases of different periods in Eisenhower's life.

[Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

And one of these cases is when, from when Eisenhower was supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force that crossed into Europe, into the continent of Europe on D Day. And there is this like, placard that is proclamation number one of Shaif Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force in English and German that was like posted all over, like light posts all over Germany. And the first thing that it said is, you know, we come as conquerors. We are all orders of the occupation authority will be obeyed immediately and without question. We are going to completely extirpate this entire society of Nazism. We're going to break and remake all the institutions, the courts, the schools, and just uproot this terrible ideology. And I think that until there is. And so I think that all of this is a big, long winded way of saying that, you know, it's what I have been worried about all along is that the only alternative to a continuation of Hamas. I've thought from the beginning that if Hamas is allowed to stand, is left standing at the end of this conflict, then the conflict must continue because there will never be coexistence with Hamas.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mario Loyola]

And it can only end in unconditional surrender. And so the only alternative to Hamas rearming and Hamas executing people in the streets and Hamas terrorizing everyone again and arming to fight another day is a military occupation and a military government. Right. An extended period of military occupation.

[Carol Markowitz]

But the problem is there's no appetite for it even in Israel.

[Mario Loyola]

Right, right. I mean, people would rather. This is the thing that university students don't understand. You would rather occupy like, you know, Saturn, a moon of Saturn, than occupy Gaza. Right. Nobody in the world wants to occupy Gaza. Nobody wants it. Yeah. Not even the Palestinians want to Occupy Gaza. Right, right. And. Or at least govern a Gaza. Right. And so unfortunately, I think that we've got a situation where now we've. I don't know the question back to you, I mean, do you think that there's any hope for leadership and administration in Gaza that's not by Hamas?

[Carol Markowitz]

I'm not very optimistic about that. But I think that October 7th woke up the Israelis. So I don't worry as much about them. I think that, that Israel is. No, they're just not the country they were on October 6th. And they are this like super peace loving people. And you know, it bothers me because sometimes I'm like, snap out of it. Like, stop caring about your enemies so much. And I'm talking about right wingers over there. The right wingers are like, we can't just destroy the Palestinian people. And you know, the fact that they're so concerned with what happens to their enemies is. It has its pluses and minuses really.

[Mario Loyola]

Israeli, Israeli self. This is one of the things that I would love to be able to share with college students across America is that one of the great perpetuating factors of this conflict is Israeli self restraint. Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

And sometimes like so much. Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

I mean, I don't know how they do it because I would not be as restrained. But let me just say one thing that does give me a lot of hope though is that, you know, now it's already been obvious for many years that within the Arab world, Hamas and the Palestinian terrorists. The Arab terrorists, I don't even like using the word Palestinian. The Arab terrorists of Palestine are isolated in the Arab world for a long time. Their main source of support has actually been a non Arab state of Iran.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. And now it's like, yeah, I don't think they have them anymore.

[Mario Loyola]

Right. And so now we've, we're for at least for a while, like these other, you know, Hezbollah was so such a terrifying prospect. 150,000 missile. The Israelis just wiped them out in a matter of 10 days.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, I know, yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

And so what you have now is emerging from the war. I think that the Palestinian, you know, the Arab resistance movement. Which means, by the way, for those of you who think that this is really a resistance, all this resistance really wants is just to get all the Jews out of Palestine.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

I mean, Jews, whatever means necessary. So resistance and scare quotes. But this resistance has never been, maybe never been as isolated as it is right now. And that is a very hopeful sign.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Annabe sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa. From top to bottom. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699 and right now get early access to Black Friday savings up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Voice]

History shows that every market eventually falls, every currency collapses and today the US Dollar is hanging by a thread. Trillions in national debt record high markets defying gravity. But stocks can't go up forever. Meanwhile, your groceries, housing and transportation costs are all going up and your dollar, it's buying less every single day. So when the system breaks when the crash hits, your stocks won't save you and your dollars won't either. But one thing will. Gold. Gold has always survived a collapse. That's why central banks are buying gold by the ton and billionaires are stocking up and everyday Americans are protecting their savings and retirement with physical gold before the next shoe drops. Don't wait for the headlines when the panic sets in, it's too late. Call Lear Capital now at 800-786-8500 to get your free 2025 Gold Investment Kit and protect your wealth if the system breaks with real physical gold. With over $3 billion in transactions and thousands of five star reviews, Lear is your leading source. Call now and also get up to $15,000 in bonus gold with a qualified purchase. Call 800-786-8500. That's 800-786-8500. Keep in mind that any investment has a certain amount of risk associated with it and you should only invest if you can afford to bear the risk of loss. Before making investment decisions, you should carefully consider and review all risks involved.

Football season is only getting more exciting and you've gotta get a Samsung TV if you want to experience game day in all its glory from game winning touchdowns to momentum shifting hits. Samsung TVs are designed to showcase every moment in unbelievable clarity. Even day games look Great on Samsung TVs with glare free tech. The kids keeps reflections from distracting you when the sun shines through the window. And most importantly, even on the biggest 2025 TVs like 115 inches big, there's no blur thanks to supersized picture enhancer. With Samsung TVs you can finally watch your favorite team on an elite screen. Select Black Friday deals start now. Go big and save big on the ultimate fan worthy [e-mail] Sales dates vary by model. Supersized Picture Enhancer utilizes AI based formulas available on 85 inch and larger TVs on models QN70F and above. Managing multiple accounts and logins for your marketing needs is like managing multiple announcers for one ad.

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

Confusing, but with mailchimp's new SMS features you can reach all your customers in over 10 countries all from one account, giving you more time, driving more conversions decisions and improving campaign performance. One platform, many audiences, endless possibilities. That's how you MailChimp your marketing with SMS. Tap the banner to learn more.

[Commercial Voice]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages in all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of Melon Leaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the amazing Meaningful beauty system for just 49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningful beauty.com.

[Carol Markowitz]

Give me a five year out prediction can be about anything. The world, music, anything you want.

[Mario Loyola]

I believe that and I think Israel is likely to be at the forefront of this. I think that the I'm very hopeful about artificial intelligence and the I don't.

[Carol Markowitz]

Get that a lot on this show. I got a Lot of doom. Yeah.

[Mario Loyola]

Yeah. No, I think the doomers are Luddites.

[Carol Markowitz]

Okay.

[Mario Loyola]

I think that the reason why I'm hopeful about it is that to use even Marxist terms, this is maybe the greatest democratization of the means of economic production that we've ever seen.

[Commercial Voice]

Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. I become like a designer on there. I could make logos, you know.

[Mario Loyola]

Exactly. Right. So I was just gonna say that, you know, when the PC first arose, you remember this term, you might be too young to remember, but there used to be this thing called desktop publishing, which was like a fancy way to describe, you know, what you could do with Microsoft Word or whatever. We're now. We are now suddenly in an age of desktop filmmaking.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, it's cool.

[Mario Loyola]

We're now in an age of where anybody with a computer is gonna spectacular works of art and science and engineering. And this is going to unleash competition that we've normally just associated with, like corporations and things that only corporations can invent. Like big corporations have the resources to invent and suddenly everybody, anyone can invent them. Right. And so that democratization, putting in the hands of every single, you know, man and woman and sometimes even child in.

[Carol Markowitz]

America, the children are all over it.

[Mario Loyola]

Yeah, right. Resources that we've normally associated with big corporations is. Is a. Is a really wonderful thing. And it's going to unleash a new sort of age of competition and invention that I think will be just as great a boon to human progress as electricity was.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love it. I love the optimism. That's really great. Well, I have loved this conversation. Mario, I think you are fantastic and I love getting to know more about you on this episode. Leave us here with your tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Mario Loyola]

Read history books on your spare time and make as much spare time as you can.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that he is Mario Loyola. Check him out at National Review, at Wall Street Journal and many, many places. He is just terrific. Follow him on X at marioliola. Thank you so much, Mario.

[Mario Loyola]

Thank you, Carol.

[Commercial Voice]

This podcast is brought to you by FedEx 6 the new power move. Hey, you know those people in your office who are always pulling old school corporate power moves?

[Mario Loyola]

Like the guy who weaponizes eye contact.

[Commercial Voice]

He's confident, he's engaged, he's often creepy. It's an old school power move. But this alpha dog laser gaze won't keep your supply chain moving across borders. The real power move, having a smart platform that keeps up with the changing trade landscape. That's why smart businesses partner with FedEx and use the power of digital intelligence to navigate around supply chain issues before they happen. Set your sights on something that will.

[Mario Loyola]

Actually improve your business.

[Commercial Voice]

FedEx the new power move saks off.

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

Fifth is revealing the season's most wanted holiday steals. Whether you're gifting someone on your list or treating yourself to a designer score, find deals on MC Queen, Valentino, Versace, Stuart Weitzman and more at up to 70% off every day. Outshine at every event and outsmart your budget. From shimmer ready party looks to luxe layers and cozy giftable accessories, Saks Off 5th is your secret source for celebrating in style. Your holiday shopping mission starts now at saksoff5th.com or a Saks off 5th store near you.

[Commercial Voice]

As a sports fan, you want the best way to watch your favorite teams at home. And now you can experience game day in all its cool with a 2025 Samsung Super Big TV. It's super big and super clear, giving you a closer view than the sidelines. And you can go big without the blur thanks to super sized Picture Enhancer. Select Black Friday deals start now. Go big and save big on the ultimate fan worthy [e-mail] Sales dates vary by model. Supersize Picture Enhancer utilizes AI based formulas available on 85 inch and larger TVs on models QN70F and above.

[Announcer/Commercial Voice]

Happy Dance Empty bowl tail in overdrive. That's the Oli Effect. Fresh human grade dog food your pup will love. Ollie delivers clean nutrition in five delicious recipes made with real ingredients in the US no fillers, no preservatives, just real food that supports your dog's health from the inside out. Start with a quick 30 second [e-mail] gopup to create a personalized meal plan based on your dog's age, weight, activity level and health goals. New subscribers get a welcome kit with two weeks of meals, a free storage container and a step by step guide to help with the transition. With Ollie, you'll see more energy, shinier coats, healthier weight and yes, easier cleanup. Dogs deserve the best. Go to ollie.com gopup and use code gopup to get 60% off your first box. That's O-L L I E.com gopup it's backed by a happiness guarantee, so if it's not the right fit, you'll get your money back. New school year, new routines, and somehow your calendar is already full. When life gets hectic, cauliflower's got your back. We make the food you crave made better for you like thin and crispy cauliflower crust pizzas, all natural chicken tenders and nostalgic pizza snacks ready in minutes in something the whole family can agree on. Cauliflower is available in freezer aisles nationwide. Visit eatcaulypower.com to find a store near you. This is an iHeart podcast.