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The Karol Markowicz Show: Israel on Trial Author Roy Altman on October 7, Campus Antisemitism & Israel’s Future
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Roy Altman
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Roy Altman
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- [02:42]
Carol Markowitz
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Roy Altman, author of the New York Times bestseller Israel on Trust. So nice to have you on Roy.
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Roy Altman
Thank you for having me.
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Carol Markowitz
So I need to ask you, what compelled you to write Israel on Trial? What was the impetus for this?
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Roy Altman
It wasn't so much the horrible violence, including sexual violence, of October 7th, although I guess, if I was being honest, that was in the background somewhere. It was more the startling reality that America, the country I had loved so much and always will, that had taken me and my family in when we were living little and came here from Venezuela with nothing, knowing no one. A system that was built on meritocracy and the rule of law, that millions of Americans all around me had lost a sense of reality and had inverted the relationship between the true oppressor, in this case the Hamas Palestinian terrorists who were raping and pillaging southern Israel, and the real victims, the women and children and septuagenarians and octogenarians who were butchered and mutilated and raped and burned alive in their kitchens and in their dance parties and in their bomb shelters, clutching at one another. And I looked around and there was yet another student group from another Ivy League institution I had once respected blaming all of that on the victims. The Jews became the oppressors. The Jews who were raped became the aggressors. The Jews whose children were being held in dungeons by Hamas militants hundreds of days without food or medicine or sunlight became the violators of human rights. How could this be? This was the question I set out to answer. And so I traveled all over the country for about two years, having thousands of conversations with people at churches of every denomination, college campuses, law schools, high schools, synagogues, trying to understand what people were thinking, what they were looking at. And I came to understand that really the entire debate about Israel boiled down to six main claims about Israel and Israelis. And each of those claims is actually, at its core, a legal claim. And so I thought to myself, why not just apply the same legal methodology that judges, lawyers and juries apply every single day in this country in courtrooms and law offices across the 50 states, and look at it as a time tested methodology that's been around for hundreds of years and that we know we trust because we use it where truth telling matters the most, in our courtrooms, where someone's life is at stake and apply it to each of these six claims about Israel and see what happens. And that's why the book's called Israel on Trial. We put Israel on trial, we apply the relevant legal methodology and we issue a verdict one way or the other.
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Carol Markowitz
I really love that. I love that it's so methodical and sensible and just truth seeking and not hysterical at all. Just I really, really enjoyed this book. So Israel on Trial was an instant New York Times bestseller. What surprised you most about the public reaction to the book?
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Roy Altman
I guess that first of all, when you write a book and this is really the first book I've written, you really only anticipate that like you, your mom, and maybe your, you know, in my case, my law clerks who have
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GLP1 Drug Myth Narrator
to read it, you know, would never
- [06:18]
Roy Altman
take a at it. But, but I've been shocked by, by the public reaction and I think it is a sign of the times. I think in my travels around the country, I think I found that not just Jewish people, but good faith Americans who love this country and are deeply patriotic are confused about the reaction on some of our college campuses in the New York Times and in our international organizations that we pay for with hard earned American taxpayer dollars. What is going on when these institutions that we thought we respected are turning on the only western, liberal, pluralistic, free speech based democracy in the Middle east on behalf of a jihadist, totalitarian, fascistic tyranny of a government ruling an enclave of people who by the tune of 70 or 80% believe that that organization, that terrorist group, is the best source of prosperity for their people. How have we become so morally confused? And in the course of that time, I think it became important for tens of thousands of Americans to have a book that could provide them with the ammunition that they need in order to rebut these false accusations against Israel. You know, all over the country people have said to me while I was giving these speeches, hey, where's your outline? Give me your speech, give me your notes so that I can talk to people at school or at work about what you said in your speech. And I never had that because it all came off the top of my head. And so I think it became important to write, write it down so that people could have a concise and non legalistic, non jargon way of digesting and understanding the history and the law in a comprehensible way. And I think the last thing I'll say about that, what really surprised me is it's only been out for a couple of weeks. But in those couple of weeks, I've received dozens of calls and emails and texts from people in my life who received themselves dozens of calls or texts or emails from people in their lives, people at work or people at their kids school who previously were either on the fence about Israel or hostile to Israel and who, because the friend asked them to read the book and said, look, I didn't know any of those things. It's amazing and I'm never going to say those things about Israel again. So that I think gives me hope for the future.
- [08:41]
Carol Markowitz
That's the whole ball game, right? Every time anybody accuses Israel of like sending out talking points or oh, you're all, you know, you're pro Israel. People are all saying similar things and Israel must have sent you some, some things to say. I always say I wish, you know, I wish Israel was so motivated and organized to send out talking points about things to defend Israel, but they don't do that at all. And so I think that your book does such a solid job of that. What has surprised you, I guess, or what reactions or misunderstandings about Israel frustrate you the most?
- [09:16]
Roy Altman
Well, I mean, I think all the six claims are preposterous on their face. You know, the claim that Jews are colonists in their own homeland, it's ludicrous. As soon as you understand what the definition of a colonist is, right? There are two types of colonialism. Settler colonialism is when a people goes to another country and displaces the local population, usually for the benefit of the home country. Extractive colonialism. The second kind of colonialism is when a people, a country sends its colonists, its people to a foreign country in order to extract, as the name implies, either minerals like gold or other resources like tobacco or cotton or human capital like slave labor. And this has happened all over the world. Obviously there is no example of British lineage of ancient English kings who spoke English and practiced Christianity and read Shakespeare ruling Virginia and Georgia and South Carolina thousands of years ago. Obviously there's no ancient lineage of Spanish kings and queens who spoke Spanish and practiced Catholicism and gave their kids names like Simon and David who lived in Colombia and Peru and Mexico thousands of years ago. But there is, according to all the objective, independent evidence I lay out in my book, thousands of years of history of ancient kings and princes and, and shopkeepers and rabbis and everyday citizens who lived and are the indigenous people of the land between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean Sea, who were Jews, who spoke the Hebrew language, who practiced the Jewish religion, who didn't eat pork or shellfish who didn't eat leavened bread on Passover. In fact, there's an ancient papyrus that I mention in the book where from 4 or 500 BC that's 2500 years ago, that's a thousand years before Muhammad was even born, where it says that you shall not eat of the leaven between the 15th and 21st of Nisan. Jews in Israel and around the world still do not eat of leaven between the 15th and 21st of Nisan. Those are the dates of the holiday of Passover. And so the evidence is unambiguous that the people who lived in the land of Israel were Jews who spoke Hebrew and named their children the same names Jews pass on to their children today. Names like Eliyahu and Miriam and Moshe. Right? And so if we go back 3200 years ago and we look at all the people that existed in the world at that time, and we fast forward until today, there is only one people that still practices the same religion, that still speaks the same language, and that still lives and governs in the same land that they lived and governed in 3200 years ago. And those are the Jews who live and govern the modern state of Israel. So if we care at all about the rights of indigenous people, if we care at all about decolonization struggles, then we have to recognize that the great decolonization success story of the mid part of the 20th century is the reclaiming of the Jewish people's sovereignty over their ancestral homeland.
- [12:37]
Carol Markowitz
We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.
- [12:42]
GLP1 Drug Myth Narrator
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- [13:43]
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Carol Markowitz
Did you find anything surprising in your research for Israel on trial? Any of the things that I found
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Roy Altman
surprising and one of the things I found surprising and that actually has cropped up this week while we're recording this is the way that the enemies of Israel create lies about Israel. Not ex nihilo. In other words, not out of nowhere. The lies aren't just random lies. The lies are all purposely calibrated to prey on the Jewish narrative itself. And so, for example, we just talked about colonization. There has been real colonization in the Middle east, real colonization of the land of Israel. It's just not the Jews who have done the colonizing. As we just discussed, Muslim Arab armies poured out of Arabia in the 7th and 8th century AD and subjugated all the indigenous peoples of the Middle east and North Africa. Not just the Jews, by the way, the amazings and Berbers of North Africa still subjugated and second class in their countries of Morocco and Libya and Algeria today. The Zoroastrians and Persians of Iran, the Yazidis and Kurds, all these are people, the Druze, that have been subjugated for hundreds of years by colonizing foreign Arab Muslim armies. So there has been colonization. It just hasn't been the Jews who have done the colonizing. There is real apartheid in the Middle east being practiced today. It's just not Israel practicing apartheid. Think for example of whether there would ever be a Jewish Supreme Court justice on the Supreme Court of Tehran. Think about whether there would ever be a Jewish general or president in Damascus or Baghdad, or whether there would be Jewish judges or heads of hospitals in Ramallah or Gaza City. The notion is inconceivable because it's absurd because these are places that ethnically cleansed their Jewish populations. Over 850,000 Jews who lived all across the Arab world for thousands of years were ethnically cleansed from their countries and pushed out of their homes in the 20th centuries. And the tiny little remnants that remain are treated there like second or third class citizens. But in Israel, there is a Muslim Supreme Court justice on the Supreme Court of Israel. There are four major Arab Muslim political parties in the knesset who in 2022 were invited to join the ruling governing coalition of Israel, which means that Arab Muslims govern the country in 2022. There are Muslim Arab judges and doctors and dentists. In fact, if you look at the nursing and dentistry data that I cite in my book in matriculation rates at Those universities, about 47 to 50% are Muslim Arabs who are graduating in the engines of socioeconomic mobility in the Jewish state of Israel. So again, you see the way the claim is inverted. There isn't apartheid in Israel, but they claim there's apartheid in order to shield what they're doing all over the Middle East.
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Carol Markowitz
And so what you're saying is it was similar to Nick, Nick Kristof in the New York Times publishing this really horrific piece.
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Roy Altman
You see that now, right?
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Carol Markowitz
About sex abuses. Yeah. And then the next there was an investigation.
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Roy Altman
Yeah, of course.
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Carol Markowitz
Go ahead if you want to elaborate.
- [19:06]
Roy Altman
So what happened there was that the New York Times was made. Made. Was made clear. To them that the Israel an NGOs report about Israeli victims of October 7th of sexual violence on October 7th was going to be released I think on May 12th, if I remember correctly. And so the New York Times ran on May 11 a opinion piece by Nick Kristof full of anonymous sources and one witness who's tied to terror and support for terror in Hamas, basically co opting the story they knew would be coming the next day, which was a story about Israeli victims. And so you see again the same mirroring of Jewish suffering when you say we want to minimize the blow exactly. Of what happened to the Jewish women by claiming that this is also happening to Palestinian prisoners on the day before.
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Carol Markowitz
Right. You are a very highly regarded judge. You have a New York Times bestseller in Israel on trial. What are you most proud of in your life?
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Roy Altman
I am the most. The thing I'm most proud of in my life is the young Jewish kids all over this country that I see on college and high school and law school campuses on an almost weekly basis who are being terrorized in ways that were inconceivable just a few years ago. People always say to me, oh, it's just free speech. That is not what these kids are dealing with, okay? It is not free speech when at Yale a mob is chucking frozen ice, frozen water bottles at their Jewish students as they walk into a Chabad on a Friday. It is not free speech. Where girls at an Ivy League school told me that every time they would come back to their dorm room, there would be swastikas on the doors and then they would go to the RA or whatever the name is of the person who run to the floor and complain. And the RA would say, well, you guys, you deserve it because you're Jews. This is a whole other level of thing. And it would have been so easy for these 18, 19, 20 year olds. They just want to go to class. They want to meet boys and girls at parties. They want to have the same college experience we all had. Right. They want to fit in. It would have been so easy for them to say, as, by the way, some of them have in order to fit in. Hey, you know what? We renounce the Jewish state. You're right, it's genocide. Even though there's no evidence of that. You're right, it's apartheid. Even though it's the most assimilated, diverse country in the region. We'll give up. We'll give in to your demands. We'll do what you say. Just please invite me to your keg party. Tonight, and they haven't done that. And by the tens of thousands, they wear their high necklaces and their Israeli flags around campus and they shout Ami Yisrael Chai. And by the way, the thing that you see over and over on these campuses at the pro Palestinian side, it hates America. It throws American flags to the ground. It chants like Iran does, death to America. But the pro Israel students, they wear their American flags proudly. They sing the national anthem before every event. They're deeply patriotic. Those are the young people. I'm optimistic about the future because of.
- [22:19]
Carol Markowitz
I'm so proud of those kids too. That's such a great point. They really are surviving something and they're thriving because of it. They're doing so amazing, amazingly well. Better than their peers because they have to overcome this. It's really something. Give us a five year out prediction and it could be about anything at all. It could absolutely relate to your book or what you think will happen with Jews around the world or anything else.
- [22:43]
Roy Altman
I think five years from now, the Middle east will look totally different. And it will look totally different because of Israel's strength, its resilience, and its ability to deter and defeat the terrorist organizations that have taken over otherwise peaceful places. And I just take a look at the Gulf states, the Arab states. I mean, there was a war in the Middle east just a few months ago, and it was a Jewish state against a Muslim state, Iran. And you had all these states in the Middle East, Arab Muslim countries, including, of course, and especially the uae, but also Kuwait and Bahrain and even Qatar and Saudi Arabia, blaming only one party for the war. And it wasn't the Jewish state, it was the terror organization that runs Tehran. And you now are seeing reports come out in the Wall Street Journal today and yesterday that the UAE and Saudi Arabia not only were defended by Israel, in other words, the UAE received Israeli rockets that prevented Iranian missiles from killing thousands of Emiratis. In other words, the Israeli government sent rockets that saved the lives of thousands of Muslim Arabs in the Middle East. But you're also seeing reports now that the UAE and maybe even Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia joined Israel and the United States in offensive attacks inside of Iran that would have been inconceivable just one year ago, let alone five or 10 years ago. And then you have what's happening in Lebanon. Israel invades southern Lebanon because of persistent attacks by the Hezbollah terrorist organization. And the Lebanese government, instead of blaming the Jewish state, a government that, by the way, hasn't had relations with Israel in over 40 years, blames Iran and makes the ambassador from Iran, who basically was running Lebanon for the last few years, Persona non grata in the country. The region is changing and my hope for the next five years is that for Arab and Jew alike, the region will be a much more prosperous and peaceful place and because of Israel's strength.
- [24:52]
Carol Markowitz
I love your optimism, Judge Altman. You are so interesting and brilliant. I super enjoyed your book Israel on Trial. Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
- [25:06]
Roy Altman
Work out every single day. Wake up early and get a workout. And it's not just important for your body, it's important for your mind, your emotional health, the amount of patient that you patients that you are able to deploy during the day and always tell your kids and your spouse that you love them.
- [25:23]
Carol Markowitz
I love that he is Roy Altman. Get his book Israel on Trial anywhere you buy your books. Thank you so much Roy for coming on.
- [25:31]
Roy Altman
Thanks Carol for having me.
- [25:33]
GLP1 Drug Myth Narrator
Let's take a minute to unpack the myths behind GLP1 drugs Myth number one GLP1 is a long term solution for weight loss True GLP1 can potentially be a long term solution for weight loss if you want to be on a drug that changes your body's natural instincts. Myth 2 GLP1 can fix your metabolism False. GLP1s fix hunger and this leads to weight loss. But the GLP1s may actually slow down your metabolic rate as your body adjusts to consuming fewer calories. GLP1 leads to a loss of muscle mass True GLP1 can lead to a loss of muscle mass due to losing weight so rapidly that your body is pulling from both fat and muscle to make up for the energy gap from consuming so few calories. If you're looking for a natural GLP1 therapy, you should consider metabolism Ignite Metabolism Ignite is powered by plants and can help boost your natural GLP 1. Visit VeracityHealth Co to learn more. That's V E R A C I T Y Health Co and type in promo code IHEART for up to 65% off your purchase.
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