The Karol Markowicz Show: Izabella Tabarovsky on Soviet Anti-Zionism, Campus Antisemitism & Her New Book ‘Be a Refusenik'

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Karol Markowicz Show

Guest: Izabella Tabarovsky

Episode Theme:
Soviet Anti-Zionism, Campus Antisemitism, and "Be a Refusenik" – Lessons for Today's Jewish Students

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Overview

In this episode, host Carol Markowitz sits down with scholar and author Izabella Tabarovsky to discuss her latest book, Be a Refusenik: A Jewish Student Survivor’s Guide. The conversation delves into the history and modern resurgence of Soviet-style anti-Zionism, the wave of antisemitism sweeping across American college campuses, and practical strategies for young Jews confronted by hostility in higher education. Drawing on both personal and historical experience, Tabarovsky offers actionable advice, thought-provoking analysis, and hope for the future.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. The Meaning of "Refusenik" and Its Relevance Today

[03:40–05:13]

• Definition: Originally, “refusenik” referred to Soviet Jews denied the right to emigrate. But Tabarovsky reframes the term, highlighting their refusal to accept the antisemitic system:

  “They refused the antisemitic system they lived in. They were supposed to forget about their Jewish identity...They were supposed to reject their Zionism. And so they refused all of it.” — Izabella Tabarovsky [04:27]

• Modern Resonance: The struggle to remain true to identity and values in a hostile environment is as relevant now as it was then, especially amid rising campus antisemitism.

2. From the USSR to US Campuses: Continuity of Anti-Zionist Rhetoric

[06:03–09:20]

• Historical Parallels: Language about Zionism on today’s campuses mirrors Soviet-era propaganda:

  “This equation that we hear all the time today—that Zionism is Nazism and racism... None of it is new. It was all there already in Soviet times.” — Izabella Tabarovsky [07:00]

• Transmission: Tabarovsky’s research traces how Soviet anti-Zionist discourse spread globally and now reappears in Western academic settings.
• Learning from the Past: The book shares stories of Soviet refuseniks alongside current young Jewish activists who independently rediscover similar strategies for resistance.

3. Advice for Jewish Students on Campus

[09:20–11:44]

• Reject Victimhood:

  “You have to reclaim everything that they want you to give up... You have to give up victimhood. That’s a really crucial piece of advice.” — Izabella Tabarovsky [10:12]

• Embrace Identity: Pride and connection to Jewish peoplehood and Zionism are presented as vital forms of resistance—not withdrawal.
• Examples of Resilience: Drawing on figures like Natan Sharansky as models who refused to see themselves as victims, even in the harshest circumstances.

4. The Ivy League Dilemma: Should Jews Still Enroll?

[17:07–20:02]

• Carol’s Concern: The psychological and emotional toll of antisemitism balanced against the opportunities elite schools provide.
• Izabella’s Viewpoint:

  “I don’t think that there is any virtue in going to a school where you’re going to be hated...If they do go...be prepared to stand up for themselves and not let this propaganda penetrate them.” [18:03]

• Preparation Over Avoidance: Jewish schools and families must prioritize preparing students—not just for academic success, but also for affirming their identity and values in adversarial environments.

5. Community, Activism, and Surviving Campus Hostility

[21:11–22:52]

• Find Your Community:

  “Find other Jewish students who think like you and have a community...analyze what’s happening together.” [21:16]

• Varied Responses: Not all students are called to be high-profile activists, but developing an “internal framework” is crucial to resisting antisemitic atmospheres.
• Role of Universities: The shift from teaching critical thinking to activist-driven indoctrination is critiqued as an underlying driver of today’s issues.

6. The Blind Spot in American Education

[22:52–24:23]

• Historical Ignorance:

  “They only know they know that Nazi Germany was bad. They either don’t know anything about the Soviet Union or they actually think that it was a force for good. And that is just...educational malpractice.” [23:27]

• Importance of History: Both agree American curricula’s omission of Soviet crimes has severe consequences for understanding current political and ideological trends.

7. Personal Transformation and Pride

[24:25–27:05]

• Immigrant Journey: Tabarovsky describes profound cultural catch-up and transformation upon immigrating, emphasizing gratitude and the value of learning not just history and politics, but also American popular culture.

  “To be an American is not just about acquiring the citizenship...It actually means changing yourself.” [25:06]

8. Five-Year Prediction: Change in Higher Education

[27:08–28:18]

• Hope for Reform:

  “I do want to believe that the Academy will not look the same in five years...because the ideological abuse...is so severe that I think things will change.” [27:14]

• Market Forces: New institutions and shifting student preferences are expected to drive reform.

9. Final Life Advice: Resist Ideological Manipulation

[28:45–30:27]

• Be Informed and Discerning:

  “My big, big, big wish for Americans today is to understand that we live at a time when we are under an ideological assault as a country...In Soviet times we had this skill...of reading between the lines.” [28:50]

• Critical Thinking: Don’t take information at face value—ask what actors are trying to achieve and remember foundational American values to resist manipulation and propaganda.

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Notable Quotes

• On Soviet Anti-Zionism vs. Today:
  “None of it is new. It was all there already in Soviet times...the words, the slogans, the explanatory logic...that Zionists control everything, Zionists rule everything.” — Izabella Tabarovsky [07:00]
• On Rejecting Victimhood:
  “They stood for what they believed was right. They stood for their values. And we have to be doing the same.” — Izabella Tabarovsky [11:12]
• On Modern American Ignorance:
  “They either don’t know anything about the Soviet Union or...think that it was a force for good. And that is just...educational malpractice.” — Izabella Tabarovsky [23:27]
• Advice for Listeners:
  “Instead of responding to a stimulus...ask yourself what are they trying to do, really? What are they trying to achieve?...Not letting yourself...become the tool of that agenda.” — Izabella Tabarovsky [29:10]

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Timestamped Important Segments

• Definition and story of the refusenik: [03:54–05:13]
• Parallels in anti-Zionist language: [06:03–09:20]
• Advice for Jewish students: [09:32–11:44]
• Ivy Leagues and campus antisemitism discussion: [17:07–20:02]
• Personal immigrant journey: [24:31–27:05]
• Five-year realignment prediction for academia: [27:08–28:18]
• Parting life advice on resisting propaganda: [28:45–30:27]

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is empathetic, frank, and rooted in lived experience—blending historical perspective, practical advice, and hope for resilience in the face of adversity. Both host and guest underscore the power of reclaiming identity, the necessity of historical memory, and the importance of resisting ideological pressure—on campus and beyond.

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Guest: Izabella Tabarovsky
Book: Be a Refusenik: A Jewish Student Survivor’s Guide
Host: Carol Markowitz

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Transcript

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[Carol Markowitz]

Hi and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Isabella Taborovsky. Isabella is a scholar of Soviet anti Zionism and contemporary antisemitism, a senior fellow with the Z3 Institute, a fellow with the Wilson Center, a contributing writer at Tablet magazine, and the author of an excellent new book, A Jewish Student Survivor. You can follow Isabella on X at Isa Tabaro. Hi Isabella. So nice to have you on.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

It's so great to be with you, Carol.

[Carol Markowitz]

So I feel like we have a lot in common, clearly an affinity because of our backgrounds. And I've always enjoyed your work. Tell us about your new book, Be a Refusenik. First of all, tell my audience what does it mean to be a refusenik.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

So, a refusenik, the term refusenik was given to Soviet Jewish activists in the late 60s, 70s and 80s. They fought for their rights as Jews. And they're mostly known and they're known in America because American Jews fought on their behalf. But they are usually associated with a movement for immigration, the emigration of Soviet Jews from the ussr. And the term comes from their, you know, people couldn't immigrate from the ussr, but when they applied to emigrate, they were refused the permission and therefore they were called refusenik. However, there is a different way to look at the term and to understand it. What they refused, it's not that the system refused them the right to emigrate before that even happened. They refused the system, they refused the antisemitic system they lived in. They refused the environment. They rejected all of it. And it was an environment in which they were supposed to forget about their Jewish identity, their connection to the Jewish people, their connection to the land of Israel. They were supposed to reject their Zionism. And so they refused all of it. And this was really the essence of their struggle. And I think their story is incredibly relevant for the current moment.

[Carol Markowitz]

Did you always want to be a writer?

[Isabella Taborovsky]

Did I? Wow, that's a really great question. I think. I don't know if I ever thought about it until a really wonderful person, Yossi Klein Halevi, told me that I have a story to tell and I can tell that story and I should do it. And when he told me that, I thought, wow, that's no, no, no, I'm a foreigner. English is not even my first language. How do I become a writer? But here we are, years ago. I have written a book and I think it's an important one, if I may say so myself.

[Carol Markowitz]

Absolutely. So, you know, just the ex Soviet families, generally when you tell them you're going to be a writer, they don't take it that great. So that's why I was asking if you had always wanted to or if it was something that you came to maybe later in your life.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

I came to it later in my life. And what really got me to start writing is in fact, you know, this book is really a culmination or it comes out of many years of my research and writing about Soviet anti Zionism. And I began writing about it when I first noticed around 2018 that on American campuses there was language about Zionism and Israel that we had heard back in the USSR, right? And I, we emigrated in 1990. I was already 20 years old then, so I remember the Soviet system very, very well growing up in the 70s and 80s. But when we came to America, I didn't understand. We forgot all about antisemitism until that time, like 2017, 2018. And I rem thinking, how is it possible? Why is this language here? Why has it caught up with me almost 30 years later? And once I started looking into it, I realized that the similarity was incredible. You know, this equation that we hear all the time today that Zionism is Nazism and racism and fascism and settler colonialism and imperialism. None of it is new. It was all there already in Soviet times. And so I thought to myself, well, it can't be that this language just got reinvented from scratch because the similarity is so, it's, it's just, it's like one to one, you know, it's the words, it's the slogans, it's the explanatory logic, the way you explain the world in very conspiratorial terms, by the way, as claiming that Zion, you know, that Zionists control everything, Zionists rule everything, Zionists own and run America as we hear today. And I started asking myself, well, there must have been channels of transmission at some point. The USSR doesn't exist anymore. So sometime in the 70s and 80s there must have been channels of transmission. And in fact there were channels of transmission. And I've traced it through my work. And once I did that, and this is how I got to the book is I started asking myself, well, if. If the ideological environment was so similar, Jews were facing the same kind of anti Zionist erasure. Obviously the country is a very small, different, the system is very different. But the Jews experienced a kind of anti Zionist pressure that American Jews are experiencing today. Then what can we learn from the Soviet Jewish story, from the story of Soviet Jewish resistance, from the refusenik story that can be useful for us today? And so this is really the book. It's not just. It's not history. I tell stories of the refuseniks and I match them with stories of young American activists today, some of whom already household like Shabbos Kestenbaum, like Kayala Kobi, Adela Kochab, who are in many cases, in most cases unknowingly landing on the same kind of mindset and the same strategy that the refuseniks of the Soviet refuseniks landed on. And so this is the story I tell you. Asked whether I always wanted to write it, I think it just came to me as I was myself on this journey of trying to understand this anti Zionism that reappeared in our lives.

[Carol Markowitz]

So your book is a Jewish student survival guide. What is your top piece of advice for Jewish students trying to survive on campus in 2025?

[Isabella Taborovsky]

So what I tell them is perhaps it's the opposite of what many are inclined to do. I know it's a time of a lot of fear and confusion. You know, I just came from California where I met and spoke to a number of Jewish communities. And I this kind of. There's a dual feeling or sentiment that I pick up. One is confusion and fear and the question of how is it that all of a sudden the standing American Jews standing in America seems to be much more uncertain than there ever was and there a lack of confidence among many. But at the same time, I sensed that I think there is a wave of grassroots resistance that's happening, that people are longing to fight really for their Jewish dignity. The Jewish people have really been under such an assault since October 7 that people are realizing that we need to fight against it and the way to fight against it. And this is what I write about based on the experience both of the Soviet refuseniks and the activists who I profile is that you actually have to reclaim everything that they want you to give up. You have to reclaim your Zionism, you have to reclaim your connection to the Jewish people. You have to reclaim your Jewish story. Because today the entirety of Jewish story is under attack. You have to give up victimhood. That's a really crucial piece of advice. I think victimhood has become sort of this holy grail in our society. And what's interesting is when you look at the refuseniks, people like Natan Sharansky, a lot of people, he's amazing. He's a real hero of the Jewish people. You know, he spent nine and a half years in prisons, in prison colonies, in the gulag, really being tortured, you know, in terrible ways. But, you know, you talk to him and the other people that I interviewed and none of them ever thought of themselves as victims. They stood for what they believed was right. They stood for their values. And we have to be doing the same.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Where do you fall on the debate going on in the Jewish world about where to send your kids to college? Do you tell these college kids to opt out of some of the like, I wouldn't send my kids to Columbia. And that's not post October 7th. That's, you know, for years and years I thought Columbia was just a hotbed of like Islamism and just really anti Semitic activity. But I don't want my kids to opt out of like the Ivy Leagues because I think it's unfair. And I think back to my own parents in Russia and in Ukraine not being able to go to certain schools because they were Jewish. And now Jewish people are opting their kids out of the best schools. And I find that all to be difficult to swallow. At the same time, I don't want my kids to have a bad four years where they're stepping over Hamas nicks and tents on the way to class. So where, where do you fall on that?

[Isabella Taborovsky]

You know, I don't think that there is any virtue in going to a school where you're gonna be hated. And not just hated. Right. What we see, for example, from the Harvard report, you know, the anti Israel and anti Zionist sentiments have penetrated the school so deeply that it's not only about avoiding, let's say, departments of Middle east studies or specific courses. It's there even in these prestigious schools that so many kids want to go to. You know, the medical school, the school of public health. For some reason, these schools also have courses on Zionist oppression. Right. And the anti Israel, they're permeated by anti Israel propaganda. I don't think that our kids should be going to those schools. However, if they do go, and by the way, I think that wherever they go, they'll make those schools better, you know, so I think a lot of Good people are opting out of the Ivy Leagues. And I think this will be to the benefit of a lot of other schools who are not Ivy Leagues. Ultimately, it's the people who make the school great. But if they do go, I think they should go. Be prepared. Prepared to stand up for themselves and prepared to not let this propaganda penetrate them. I think it's part of my message in the book is you have to understand that it's something that we as ex Soviet Jews really understand. We understand the sources, we understand the point of it. And so we don't let this language doubt who we are and undermine our identity. Unfortunately, American Jews have never really experienced anything like this. And so. Right. So they allow for that to undermine their confidence and create doubt. And I think that if a student is well prepared to face that, and I think it should be a priority for Jewish parents and for Jewish schools to prepare students for that, then that's okay. Then why not go? But I think we also, we should ask ourselves, are these really the best schools given what's going on in them?

[Carol Markowitz]

They do open doors. It's hard to ignore that. You know, people do still hire from these schools at a much higher rate than out of other schools. I'm sure that does change. But I have a 15 year old, you know, this isn't like in the distant future for me. This is coming up very, very soon. And my concern, and you know, I would say also, you know, how does it, how does they have an anti Zionism class in the mathematics department? I really do think a lot of this is just leftism. I always say, you know, the problem is liberalism. The problem is, it's not that the problem is antisemitism. The problem begins with a leftist point of view and then encompasses antisemitism. But my issue is not, I'm not worried about sending my kids off and having them come back woke. Like none of that is a concern to me or denouncing their Jewish faith or Israel or any of that. I'm just worried about them not having a fun four years battling through that. But your book is specifically about that kind of survival. I, I mean, I guess that's why I wanted to ask you whether that's what you mean by a Jewish student's survival guide, the way to survive in places like that.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

Well, I think definitely it's a part of it. They, I think it's really critical if you go to a school like that to find other Jewish students who think like you and to have a community and to be together and learn together and analyze what's happening together. This is what the Reshusniks did. And I think that this is what's really important. Now when you look at, for example at Columbia was one of the students I profile Lishe Baker was a co author of a letter that Columbia students wrote. Four Columbia students wrote a letter that came to be known the letter of 500. It's a letter in which they reclaim, they reclaim their Zionism. They kind of state their values very clearly. You know, again, it's not for everyone. But I think if you have a student, you know, not everybody is meant to be an Attan Sharansky, let's be clear.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right, right, right.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

Not everyone is meant to be a Shabbos Kestenbaum who really can go and review his political commitments and realign them according based on what he views as really priority for the Jewish people today. Not everyone is willing to go and sue a university the way Adela Kohab did, for example, and the way Shabazz did as well, and Eyalia Kobi. But you know, I think what's crucial is to have an internal framework that prevents you from succumbing to this environment and really integrating into this antisemitic environment at schools. And I want to just comment very quickly on what you said, that the problem is leftism and that the universities have succumbed to that. And I think the bigger problem is that the universities have forgotten that they're supposed to be non political environments.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right?

[Isabella Taborovsky]

They're supposed to be teaching, teaching people how to think, not what to think. And what we see today is an academy that believes it needs to tell students what is the right way of thinking. We see academics who are activists as opposed to educators. And that is definitely a broader problem. The fact, another problem is that we no longer teach students, or maybe when ever did, about the history of Soviet communism, for example, they have no idea what happened in the USSR in the 70 years or 75 years that it existed. They only know they know that Nazi Germany was bad. They either don't know anything about the Soviet Union or they actually think that it was a force for good. And that is just, it's educational malpractice. And that really needs to change.

[Carol Markowitz]

That absolutely is, I think that that's such a gaping hole in our education system. And the fact that people just don't know what went on. And when you tell them, their eyes get wide. It's like, how did you not know this already? How did you not learn this? But of course you and I grew up, you know, I came to the US as a child. I came in 78. I was very little. I wasn't even two yet. So it's a little bit different. But you saw it firsthand. And I grew up with the stories of it. I grew up with, you know, your great grandfather was in the Gul, and this is how it all happened. But for people who don't grow up with the stories, the schools are supposed to fill that in, and they. They kind of choose not to.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

Oh, right, exactly.

[Carol Markowitz]

Switching a little bit topics. What are you most proud of in your life?

[Isabella Taborovsky]

So there are two things, and they go hand in hand for me. One is becoming an American, and the other is becoming. Finding myself in the Jewish community, connecting to Judaism and to Jewish culture. And they go together because they both. They involved a really profound transformation. And I think today it's hard for people to appreciate. When you come to America from behind the Iron Curtain, it's like you land on a different planet and, you know, different values, different everything. And I understood very quickly that to be an American is not just about acquiring the citizenship and not just saying an oath of allegiance even, and not about acquiring an American passport. It actually means changing yourself. And I really. I really worked on it. I understood, for example, that having been blocked off from the rest of the world behind the Iron Curtain meant that you missed. You know, people love to talk about how Soviet people were so educated, but we missed so, so much. You know, we missed years and decades, for example, of musical culture, a whole cultural development film, music, books. Certain books, absolutely. And, you know, imagine growing up not knowing anything about, I don't know, Audrey Hepburn or Bruce Springsteen. Take your favorite musician. You know, I remember there was this funny episode when at some point in the 90s, the film Forrest Gump came out. And it, of course, has this whole musical.

[Carol Markowitz]

Love that musical.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

Yes, exactly. Musical part. And I remember going there with a friend, and everybody's responding to the events and the film and the music, and I'm sitting there like I'm watching a movie in a foreign language without subtitles, you know, so my friend then had to explain to me what all the music was and introduce it to me. So you were really knocked out of global culture for years and decades. And so. And then, of course, and then the whole, you know, philosophical thought underlying the United States and the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, all of that. So I had to learn all of that from scratch. And I just feel incredibly grateful that I took the time to do it. It's a It was really transformative.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that, actually. I think that that's the right way to be an American, to catch up on, you know, not just the history and the politics, but also the culture.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

[Carol Markowitz]

Give us a five year out prediction and it could be about anything you want.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

Well, you know, I am a historian by training and sensibility and we hate giving predictions. But, you know, I'll go out on the limb. I hope people don't, you know, don't bookmark this part of the episode. But I do want to believe. Maybe it's more of a wishful thinking. I do want to believe that the Academy will not look the same in five years. Because I think that the ideological abuse that we see in elite American universities is so severe that I think things will change. And I think what's the great thing about America is that you have the market and people can vote with their feet and with their money. And I think other universities will appear and already are appearing, and other schools will draw people, young people to them because they will offer them something better. They will offer them better education, they will offer them a better environment and professors will act the same. And so I want to believe it's more wishful thinking and prediction that in five years there will be changes.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that. I hope you're right because again, I have kids that are butting up right up against that system that I would love to see change. And I don't know if five years is gonna be fast enough for me. Cause again, I have a 15 year old, maybe the 12 year old and the 9 year old will benefit from that. Well, I've loved this conversation. Isabella, I've always been a fan of yours and I think you do such great. Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

So, you know, I'm a scholar of ideology and I'm a scholar of propaganda. And I'm gonna say, I think my big, big, big wish for Americans today is to understand that we live at a time when we are under an ideological assault as a country, you know, and we see individual groups being targeted. But I think the biggest target is our unity as a nation. And I hope that, you know, this propaganda is very sophisticated. I think there are multiple actors who contribute to it. And I just wish, look, in Soviet times we had this skill, which I forgot that we used to have it. I remembered it recently of reading between the lines. You know, we knew that we were constantly under propaganda assault. And so nobody ever read, took what they read for granted. You read between the lines, which is different than being conspirological. I wanna make, you know, there's a distinction there, so distinction, but really trying to kind of take a step back and instead of responding to a stimulus that comes through social media, asking yourself what are they trying to do, really? What are they trying to achieve? Whoever they are, you know, they're different actors and not letting yourself, not letting yourself follow or become the tool of that agenda. And I think really remembering the foundational values and foundational what you know, the foundational story of us as Americans and basing your decisions and working for changes from that place, as opposed to by joining radical movements that have proven themselves to be morally bankrupt already in the past.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that she is Isabella Taborovsky. Her book is Be a Refused A Jewish Student Survival Guide. Buy it now anywhere books are sold. Thank you so much Isabella for coming on.

[Isabella Taborovsky]

Thank you for me having have they made Carol.

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