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The Karol Markowicz Show: Kimberly Ross on Women, Work, Motherhood & the “Tradwife” Debate
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- [00:00]
Kimberly Ross
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Carol Markowitz
Guaranteed Human.
- [00:04]
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- [01:26]
Carol Markowitz
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Kimberly Ross. Kimberly is an opinion writer for Washington examiner and the Magnolia Tribune. Hi, Kimberly. So nice to have you on.
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Kimberly Ross
Hi, Carol. Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here.
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Carol Markowitz
So I've been reading you for a very long time and I'd love to know more about you and how you got into this. You know, what I call this thing of ours. What was your start here?
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Kimberly Ross
It's interesting. I've always been interested in politics and news, even from a young age. I remember my parents always had the news on and I loved hearing about the world, the bigger world around me, whether it was politics or just culture or something. So news has always been something I've been interested in. And I was one of those teenagers who liked to watch the State of the Union, one of those really weird teenagers who did that and then watched election returns and stuff. So I always knew I wanted to be involved in politics or news in some way. But after high school, I went to college. I went to community college for two years to Try to kind of figure out what I wanted to do. And I was an elementary education major for one semester and I realized very quickly that I was not made to be a teacher in a room of like 22 elementary school.
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Carol Markowitz
I hear you on that.
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Kimberly Ross
So many people are really good at that and I am not one of those people.
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Carol Markowitz
I'm impressed by those people. I just do not have that trait.
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Kimberly Ross
Yeah, it is so not me. So I knew I wanted to pursue politics after that, something in that field. So I, I majored in history and then after my bachelor's I went to grad school and did grad school work in political science. I haven't finished my master's yet, but I'd like to go back and finish that someday. Thanks. But I did, I did focus on that in college and stuff. Then ended up getting married. I met my husband online.
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Carol Markowitz
Oh, wow.
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Kimberly Ross
Yeah, well, in the dark days of Internet dating way back in like 2007 and everything. So after we got married, I was working full time while he finishing his grad school degree and I knew I wanted to start writing about politics because I had done so much writing in college with history and, and things like that. So I was like, I think I would like to try my hand at doing opinion writing and see how it goes from there. So I started my own little blog on Medium in 2014. I had like 24 reads like my first post.
- [03:45]
Carol Markowitz
What, what was it called?
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Kimberly Ross
I. I forget, I actually forget what I called my blog, but it was been so long ago. But I started writing and then being connected on Twitter way back then. I networked and stuff and got connected with Eric Erickson and he invited me to write for Red State as a front page contributor in 2015. So I started writing there in 2015 and it just kind of took off from there. And then I started writing for examiner as a contributor in 2018. I've been contributing to them ever since, very regularly and a few other places I've contributed to here and there. So it was a path I didn't expect to be on. But I am very passionate about it. I love doing it and I'm glad to be here.
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Carol Markowitz
What is the Magnolia Tribune?
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Kimberly Ross
It is a. An online site based in Mississippi that does a regional, but also kind of national and international. There's opinion writing, there's local news, things like that.
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Carol Markowitz
Yeah, I feel like local news sites are just so lacking. I don't know, I guess it's very hard to make money with them. I mean, that has to be what the, what the Issue is. But I'd love to read sort of local opinion writing. My area, I just don't think it exists. I mean, I've looked for it before it really. And if you do find it, it's usually like kooky, right? It's very, very local.
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Kimberly Ross
Yes, exactly.
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Carol Markowitz
But I love that. So how did you and your husband meet? What was the online meeting in 2007? That's a long. I mean, that's early days. Yeah, it was.
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Kimberly Ross
And like when people talk about online dating now, I'm like, it was not apps, but back then we had to log in online, go to the desktop at the end of the day after work and do that whole thing. We met on E. Harmony and he was about 45 minutes away going to the University of Illinois because I'm from Illinois and he was going to school there. And I was like, you know, he's interesting. I'd like to meet him and everything. And not kidding from the first date, I was like, okay. I think this.
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Carol Markowitz
Wow.
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Kimberly Ross
Wow. Ever since.
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Carol Markowitz
That's amazing. I mean, people say that like, oh, I think this is it. But then it's not it. It's like amazing what it is actually. And I also, I. Those E. Harmon ads, I loved them. They were always so like, you know, I have this joke with my husband. I never did online dating. Like, I just missed the era of that completely. And not that I, you know, miss it, but it's, it's. It's just I don't feel part of the zeitgeist because I don't know what it was actually like. And I always say to my husband, like, you know, had you and I not worked out, I would have, I would have been right on eharmony. Their ads got me.
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Kimberly Ross
Yes. And nowadays everyone's talking about like swiping and I have no idea what that's like because we had to fill out like questionnaires on either old school.
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Carol Markowitz
Like in depth. Right? It can't be like one word answers.
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Kimberly Ross
No, no, in depth. Very in depth.
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Carol Markowitz
It's funny because I actually, when I think about it, I think either you have to go in depth like that or you have to go very superficial. Just, you know, picture and three words and like see, it's like seeing someone across the room. So either you're like marriage minded or you're, you can still get married when you spot someone across the room. But it's just a very basic meeting.
- [06:54]
Kimberly Ross
So different.
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Carol Markowitz
Do you have something that you consider your beat?
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Kimberly Ross
I. Well, I'm. I've really Been focused for many years now, writing about abortion and life issues and stuff. And definitely family issues, women's issues. From a conservative perspective, of course.
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Carol Markowitz
Right.
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Kimberly Ross
Those for sure, are big things that I like to discuss. Yeah.
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Carol Markowitz
Do you find that you get a lot of pushback for stuff like that? I feel like women's issues are, you know, some of some of the toughest things to write about because women get kind of crazy about anybody opposing their leftist opinion.
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Kimberly Ross
Yeah, for sure. I had a magazine feature at examiner recently where I talk about the girl boss and the trad wife.
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Carol Markowitz
I read that. That was really good.
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Kimberly Ross
Thank you so much. Because I kind of feel like we're pushed to be. Oh, you need to be a girl boss. Right. The leftists are telling us to do that. I'm not a girl boss. Like, that's not my position or my role. And then there's like this online influencer crowd that's all like the trad wife stuff. And I think a lot of it is performative in n nature, but I don't fit into that either. And I think most women don't. We're like straddling both lines and we're trying to just do what's best for our family. So, yeah, writing about that, I feel like people are really like, especially leftists, if you talk about how women's role. A woman's role isn't like providing for her children and, you know, being a partner to her husband and stuff like that's. They don't like that. But it's worth talking about because that's what it should be.
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Carol Markowitz
Right. And I feel like there's nobody really fits into those two models like the girl boss or the trad wife. First of all, the online trad wife requires an amount of effort that I just don't even understand. And that's even before, you know, you set up all your tripods and your lighting and you have the perfect background for it and you have to make sure everything's clean. Like I'm recording right now with a bunch of toys around me. But, you know, and I don't think the girl boss thing is right either. I mean, it certainly doesn't describe me. I work only X number of hours, but. And not a full time for sure. And I'm not girl bossing at all. But you want. I feel like women always wanted to have the balance and now it's like we're pushed to pick one or the other and it's almost by the right. Right. Like it used to be leftist. Who would say you know, pick one of these. These are the only two paths. But now it seems like the right is heading in that direction.
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Kimberly Ross
Yeah, and that's exactly why I wanted to write about it, because I feel the push from the right a lot now. Because, like you said, I'm not. I'm not a trad wife. I'm not a girl boss, but it's not like I'm failing as a woman or as a mother, as a wife. In the role I'm in, no one else's life looks like mine. It doesn't. Life looks like yours. And it doesn't mean that we're not living up to what we should be doing as a woman.
- [09:41]
Carol Markowitz
And there's also all this messaging to conservative men, like, your wife has to submit to you. Your wife has to be a trad wife, but she also has to have a job because she can't be a freeloader. And, you know, there's all this, like, I feel like men, young men are being sold this complete lie, and the Andrew Tates of the world are like, don't get married. Marriage is for suckers. You know, marriage is gay. Marrying a woman is gay.
- [10:07]
Kimberly Ross
It's definitely. There's a lot of. So much of it is online, and I don't know how much that translates to, like, the real world. I think a lot of it is Internet subculture identities and everything. But like you said, you don't fit into that role either. And someone on the left would be like, oh, you need to be more of a girl boss.
- [10:24]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
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Kimberly Ross
But that's not your life. No, thanks. I would be like, well, you shouldn't be doing, you know, you shouldn't be talking or writing podcasts and stuff. No, but that is your role, and you're great at it, and that doesn't mean you're abandoning anything else.
- [10:38]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, I feel like my kids see and see me enough, you know? What would you have done if this hadn't worked out?
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Kimberly Ross
I actually. When I was working full time while my husband was in school, I was a paralegal. And I really. I actually really enjoyed that because I like the detail of it, and I like being kind of me doing something on my own, not a part of a group. I'm not against group work, but I would prefer doing my own thing. And I really liked that aspect of being a paralegal. It was. It was enjoyable. So I would. I'd probably continue down that path. I don't know if I would go back to school and do some other career or something, but I really liked doing that while my husband was in school.
- [11:20]
Carol Markowitz
I was also a paralegal. And I hated the detail, the details of it. It actually drove me bananas. Like I I rem the day that my whole career ended for me was I spent a whole day arguing. And I'm sure you've had days like this where you argued over the word may or the word can, like which of those goes into the document. And I was like, I can't take this. I need big picture. I can't have can and may be what I focus on for an entire day. But it's actually a great job to teach you how to do lots of other jobs. I think that being a paralegal right out of college taught me. It did teach me detail orientated, taught me how to write, it taught me how to be organized. It, it taught me a lot of things that college didn't teach me. Did you find that?
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Kimberly Ross
Yeah, I found. I found that too. And I would say the biggest lesson for me was I had a really tough boss at the job I was at the longest, and it was a female lawyer. And she pushed back so hard on everything and really took me to like the brink of like understanding what I could do and how I could respond to things and stressful situations. And I think it was really good for me coming from not experiencing that, of course, in college to then experiencing that on, you know, in a workplace and stuff. And you have to figure out how to work with someone who is. Right. Difficult. It was a great lesson.
- [12:43]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah. I feel like we, the kids now kind of have a softer situation where people aren't difficult bosses anymore because the kids are going to cry. And, you know, I just, I. Gen Z is definitely coddled a little. I mean, I thought this of millennials too. I guess I'm just old and grumpy, like, get off my lawn. You know, you kids these days, you know, But I don't know, I think they, they expect a lot that we didn't or I didn't expect in, in my generation at all, for sure.
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Kimberly Ross
Yeah. And I'm an, I'm an older millennial. I was born in 1982. So I do not relate to the young children at all. I mean, I kind of would love a Gen X, like, adopt me just like a little bit.
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Carol Markowitz
You're in. You know, I'm 77. It's like, you know, if you want to be part of our thing, you're welcome to. What are you most proud of in your life?
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Kimberly Ross
Definitely being a mom.
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Carol Markowitz
Because how many Kids.
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Kimberly Ross
I have two kids. For the longest time, I didn't know if I was going to be able to be a mom. After my husband was done with his schooling and stuff, then we decided to start a family. And, and I've told people this since then, especially younger people. Just because you want to start a family, you think it's going to happen immediately, does not mean that it's going to happen immediately. I dealt with infertility for about four or five years, and I was not expecting that at all.
- [14:05]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
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Kimberly Ross
I had no reason to believe that that would be the path to motherhood and pregnancy and stuff. But I did deal with that for about five years. And we finally had our oldest when I was 34, and then I had my second when I was 38. So I have a five year old and I'm 43. And would I have preferred maybe to have a five year old when I was like 30? Sure, sure. That's not how life turned out.
- [14:28]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
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Kimberly Ross
But my favorite thing in the world is being a mom. I love seeing them grow and learn and helping them along the way and navigate this world and everything. And our oldest has a speech delay, and I've talked about that on Twitter more than once. And it's so wonderful to see him overcome certain things. And he's been in speech therapy. He's nine years old now. He's been in speech therapy since he was. And the other day he told me, mom, you always tell me I can do hard things. And I believe that I can. And that, I mean, what better thing in the world, hearing your child say that to you? So being a mom is my favorite.
- [15:05]
Carol Markowitz
I love that we're friends with a family who, that's their family motto, you can do hard things. And I just love that so much. I also, I had my third child at 38. And you know what? I didn't even. I mean, I did not have fertility problems. I just got married a little later. And every child was spaced a little bit. But so it happens when it happens. You know, I, I think about, you know, would I have loved to have them earlier? Sure. But again, timing just happens when it happens.
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Kimberly Ross
Right. And that's another thing that like the trad wife crowd pushes, like, to have kids in your 20s, that's not how it worked out for me.
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Carol Markowitz
Right.
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Kimberly Ross
It doesn't mean that I was like, not wanting to be a mom. It just, that's not what happened. And it so like assuming that, that a woman doesn't want to have children or her priorities are wrong because of when she has kids is just. That's not true.
- [15:56]
Carol Markowitz
Absolutely. I would have had kids with the wrong people in my 20s. I mean, and I dated good boys, but I just, I, they were not the future husband fathers for me. And I think that, that again, it happens when it happens and we could try to control for some of it. Look, I tell my kids, obviously, like, if you meet your person in your 20s, don't wait till you're in your 30s to then get married and have children. Like, you know, do it, do it when you meet the person. But if you don't meet the person for a while, don't go having kids with randos. No, definitely not. Yeah. We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.
- [16:34]
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- [18:06]
Carol Markowitz
Give us a five year out prediction and it could be about anything at all.
- [18:12]
Kimberly Ross
I have have two things. One is kind of a funny one. I love the movie the Batman that Robert Pattinson was in recently and they keep saying that there's going to be a sequel and I think in five years we'll still not have a sequel.
- [18:24]
Carol Markowitz
Really? Why?
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Kimberly Ross
Because they Keep like pushing the script, like they keep redoing the script, keep getting new actors or something cast in it and it just, it feels like it's never going to happen. And I know that's like, I like this prediction.
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Carol Markowitz
No, this is interesting. Yeah.
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Kimberly Ross
It's such, it's like he's the emo Batman and it's such a fun movie
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Carol Markowitz
and he's gonna be like 50 by then.
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Kimberly Ross
I know. Like, yeah, he's gonna be like 15. It's just not gonna work. Yeah. My other prediction is that I just feel like we are gonna keep going along this path of focusing on interacting with people online and kind of like a social media way. I'm sure you've seen these polls too. People are more connected than ever. But like the loneliness is off the charts in terms of like, especially Gen Z who's, you know, they're in the thick of it and stuff. And I just think if we don't change direction, it's only going to be worse. We're going to think we're more connected in five years.
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Carol Markowitz
Right.
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Kimberly Ross
People are going to feel more. The depression is going to be off the charts. The loneliness, I mean, even like teenagers, they don't get their license as much as they used to.
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Carol Markowitz
Right.
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Kimberly Ross
Like I've seen that. So I mean, touching grass. We say that all the time.
- [19:33]
Carol Markowitz
All the time. Yeah.
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Kimberly Ross
We need to do it more than ever. I think especially as like AI continues to grow. It's a push that we really need to encourage our kids to do and adults.
- [19:43]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, for sure. You know, this show has advice component and like, you know, for better living. And I just kind of try to keep it not just straight politics. And I have to say the number one thing that people write into me for, I mean, and I'm talking number one, like it's 90% of the emails I get are something around how to form relationships. How do I make friends? How do my kids make friends? How does my grown son make friends? It's very hard when you feel like everyone around you knows how to do it and maybe you don't. And a lot of my advice is not earth shattering. I remember one person wrote into me was like, how do I make friends? Don't tell me to join a running club. The truth is that's how you make friends. You do things, you go out and you have activities and you. And it's hard and it's annoying and you might meet people you don't like at first and then you'll have to like keep trying and then you know, somebody that you didn't like becomes someone that you do like and that's what life is like. And I think we've fooled people into believing that you could just be swiping and you could find your perfect people and it takes no effort and it's so easy and you could just design your perfect person online and that's just not what the world is like. Even with all of our technology. The, the whole outside your door thing is the way that I described it and not that perfect thing that you look for on the Internet.
- [21:05]
Kimberly Ross
Exactly. That is fascinating to me that that's like 90% of what people say to you. I mean, it makes sense considering the kind of social media obsessed, Internet obsessed world we're in. But yeah, I mean, you have to get off the online world if you want any sort of communication, interaction, connection with other people for sure.
- [21:24]
Carol Markowitz
That's really, I mean, I use touch grass on here a lot, but really go outside, go touch some grass, go be part of a community. It's not always going to be amaz, but you know, work towards it and it'll be good. I have loved this conversation. Kimberly, you're really interesting and I really liked getting to know you a little bit better. Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
- [21:49]
Kimberly Ross
I was talking to my husband about this the other day. I think not caring what people think of you in general is a superpower.
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Carol Markowitz
It so is.
- [21:59]
Kimberly Ross
Yeah, you're so powerful and I know it kind of takes a while to get there. It's different for everyone, but it kind of takes a while to get there in life. Took me definitely past my 20s to kind of feel like that, but. And it's not that you should be cruel or something when you're sharing your opinions or interacting stuff, but if you genuinely don't care about what other people think about your opinions or your perspective on life or your religion or your family dynamic, it, it does, it makes everything so much better. It really is a superpower. You feel freer in terms of discussing things with people, making friends with people because you can agree to disagree with people, but you don't have to be nervous or scared that they don't like you because you're presenting yourself in an unvarnished way. And you can do that without being scared. And I just really think once people get there, it's like I should have been here the whole time. It definitely takes a lot of life to get to that point, I think.
- [22:55]
Carol Markowitz
Absolutely. And you know, you could Be more honest. And what's the point otherwise? If you can't be yourself, what are you living for? The pretending to have an opinion that you don't actually have. And I've seen so many people do this, you know, where they. They say one thing and then they kind of whisper to me, but, like, actually, I'm on your side with this. Like, you could say it out loud. During the pandemic, that was really a popular thing where somebody would be like, you should mask up. And then they would tweet at me, like, I actually don't think masks work. So, yeah, Yeah. I mean, live your life and be yourself is such a powerful message still today, despite it all, you know, the idea that you. If you can't say what you actually think, you're not free. And. And I think it's pointless.
- [23:41]
Kimberly Ross
And I feel like, especially conservatives, we're kind of told we have to be quiet. You know, in the world where that's dominated by a legacy media that's on the left and stuff. And it's okay if people don't like what you say. It's fine. That's the worst thing that's gonna happen. You're okay. It's fine if people don't like you. It really is okay.
- [23:57]
Carol Markowitz
It's totally fine. You're going to be okay. She is Kimberly Ross. Read her at the Washington examiner and at the Magnolia Tribune. Thank you so much, Kimberly.
- [24:06]
Kimberly Ross
Thank you so much for having me.