The Karol Markowicz Show: Not Outsiders: The Asian American Experience with Helen Raleigh

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: The Karol Markowicz Show: Not Outsiders: The Asian American Experience with Helen Raleigh
Release Date: June 20, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, host Carol Markowitz engages in a profound conversation with Helen Raleigh, an immigrant from communist China and the author of Not Outsiders: Asian Americans Political Activism from the 19th Century to Today. Raleigh delves into the historical and contemporary landscape of Asian American political activism, challenging prevalent misconceptions and highlighting the community's significant contributions to American society.

The Need for Not Outsiders

Carol Markowitz opens the discussion by questioning why Asian Americans are often perceived as outsiders, prompting Raleigh to explain the impetus behind her book.

Helen Raleigh [02:54]: "If you look at the surveys, a lot of Asian Americans continue to feel this perpetual bias treating Asian Americans as outsiders... So, this political environment that I feel compelled to write this book."

Raleigh emphasizes that labels like "white adjacent" diminish Asian Americans' rich history and agency, asserting that their success is often mistakenly attributed to assimilating into white norms.

Historical Context of Asian American Activism

Raleigh outlines the three waves of Asian American political activism chronicled in her book:

1. First Wave (1850 – Pre-World War II):
   Focused on combating systemic discrimination, notably the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act, which barred Chinese immigrants from naturalization.

   Helen Raleigh [05:23]: "Most political activities activism was focusing on opposing those discriminatory immigration laws."

2. Second Wave (World War II – Early 1990s):
   Addressed challenges such as Japanese American internment, discrimination against Korean Americans, and high-profile cases like the murder of Vincent Chin.

   Helen Raleigh [05:23]: "This covered the struggle of Japanese Americans, the internment as well as later on the LA riots..."

3. Third Wave (1990s – Present):
   Engages with contemporary issues like the lawsuit against Harvard's admissions policies and efforts to reinstate affirmative action through multi-ethnic coalitions.

   Helen Raleigh [07:23]: "Asian Americans led a multi-ethnic coalition to push back ballot initiatives, try to bring back affirmative actions."

Contemporary Political Activism and Education

The conversation shifts to the current phase of activism, particularly within educational institutions and the corporate sector.

Helen Raleigh [07:58]: "Education has been our only way to realize our American dream, to climb the economic ladder... that's why it is so important for Asian Americans to have a fair education system."

Raleigh discusses the ongoing battle against the "Asian penalty" in college admissions and highlights victories such as the Supreme Court ruling against Harvard's race-based admissions.

Helen Raleigh [10:32]: "The Supreme Court ruled against Harvard, basically deemed Harvard race-based college admission unconstitutional."

She also notes shifts in corporate hiring practices, where some companies are retracting diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives, reflecting broader societal changes.

Personal Journey and Motivation

Raleigh shares her personal story of immigration from communist China, driven by a desire for freedom and better opportunities. Her experiences under an authoritarian regime instilled in her a profound appreciation for Western ideals.

Helen Raleigh [16:16]: "I decided I want to go to a place where I get to decide how I want to live my life... those basic ideas from those early days drove me to want to come to America."

This personal narrative underscores her commitment to advocating for policies that protect and advance the rights and opportunities of Asian Americans.

Successes and Challenges in Activism

The dialogue explores the successes in Asian American activism, including legal victories and increased political engagement.

Helen Raleigh [11:21]: "In Harvard's particular case, they still do it in a very sneaky way... I definitely see changes in other areas too."

Raleigh expresses optimism about the growing political influence of Asian Americans, particularly in key electoral states.

Helen Raleigh [12:23]: "I am definitely optimistic... I see there's a political shift among the Asian American populations."

Advice and Life Lessons

Towards the end of the interview, Raleigh offers personal advice, reflecting on her experiences and losses.

Helen Raleigh [22:50]: "If you believe it's the right thing to do, don't wait too long to do it... There's no perfect timing for the things you want to do."

She emphasizes the importance of prioritizing meaningful relationships and being present with loved ones.

Helen Raleigh [25:39]: "Be generous with your time and attention with the people and things that you consider that worth it."

Conclusion

Carol Markowitz concludes the episode by applauding Raleigh's contributions and promoting her book.

Carol Markowitz [27:37]: "She is Helen Raleigh. Her book is Not Outsiders, Asian Americans, Political activism from the 19th century to today. Buy it anywhere."

Helen Raleigh's Not Outsiders serves as a crucial narrative that not only highlights the resilience and activism of Asian Americans but also seeks to dismantle the lingering stereotypes that marginalize this vibrant community.

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Notable Quotes:

• Helen Raleigh [03:05]: "We haven't made any contribution to the civil rights movement. We're just writing a cocktail of other people's other groups' achievements."

• Helen Raleigh [16:25]: "Those basic ideas from those early days drove me to want to come to America, to live a different kind of life."

• Helen Raleigh [22:50]: "If you believe it's the right thing to do, don't wait too long to do it."

• Helen Raleigh [25:39]: "Be generous with your time and attention with the people and things that you consider that worth it."

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This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of Asian American political activism, enriched by Helen Raleigh's personal experiences and scholarly insights. It serves as an essential listen for those interested in understanding the multifaceted contributions of Asian Americans to the social and political fabric of the United States.

Transcript

[Carol Markowitz]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Richard Karn]

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[Helen Raleigh]

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[Helen Raleigh]

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[Helen Raleigh]

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[Carol Markowitz]

Hi and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Helen Raleigh, an immigrant from communist China and American by choice. Her latest book is called not Outsiders. Asian Americans Political activism from the 19th century to today. And it's out now anywhere books are sold. Hi Helen, So nice to have you on.

[Helen Raleigh]

Thanks for having me, Carol.

[Carol Markowitz]

So why are Asian Americans even sometimes considered outsiders? Why did a book need to be written to say that they're not?

[Helen Raleigh]

That's a really good question. Because if you look at the surveys, there are a lot of Asian Americans continue to feel this perpetual bias treating Asian Americans as outsiders. Especially since 2020, the racial reckoning there is a new derogatory term invented by the progressives describe Asians as white adjacent. So no matter how long we stay here, basically that term deprive our history of long history in this country as well as our own agenc. So this term implies that basically Asian Americans, our only success comes from acting white, essentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the perpetual question, no matter where you go, no matter how fluent English we speak, the perpetual question is always where you're from and it's never enough until you're mentioned somewhere else, you know, far outside the United States. So is this perpetual bias as well as a new derogatory description about Asian Americans compelled me to decide that I must write this book in order to basically correct or refute those misunderstanding about Asian American. Hasn't been here long enough. We haven't, you know, the misunderstanding of we haven't made any contribution to the civil rights movement. We're just writing a cocktail of other people's other groups achievement or we have no agencies or our success comes from acting white. So it's this, this political environment that I feel compelled to write this book.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's interesting. It's like similar to the Jewish population in America, we're both called white when white is a bad thing, but not white when that's the better option. It's, it's funny that there's that alignment like Asians are only considered white when it's a negative. Right? So have Asians been politically active for their entire time in this country?

[Helen Raleigh]

Absolutely. So in my book I basically look at a trace back to the history starting from 1850, from the gold rush to the present day. I identify the three waves of Asian Americans political activism. So the first wave was starting from 1850 to basically right before World War II. During this time Asian Americans actually was facing systemic discrimination, especially Chinese Americans. The United States government passed the 1882 Chinese Exclusion act, which was the first immigration and only immigration act that the preventing Chinese Americans from become naturalized citizen. And so during this period of time, most political activities activism was focusing on, you know, opposing those discriminate, discriminatory immigration laws. And the second wave is starting from World War II to the early 1990s. Basically, you know, this covered the struggle of Japanese Americans, the internment as well as later on the LA riots against, you know, involved the discrimination against the Korean Americans as well as the murder of Vincent Chen, a young Chinese Chinese men in Detroit during the anti Japanese imports protest. And then the third wave is actually more relevant to us contemporary because it involved how Asian American push back the progress of war on merits, on meritocracy. And so you have cases such as the SFA's case against Harvard, as well as both in California as well in Washington State that Asian Americans led a multi ethnic coalition to push back ballot initiatives, try to bring back affirmative actions.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. I've seen that in New York before I moved where the Asian American population was getting much more politically active than they had been. And it was because of education. Do you see that as kind of the, the current frontier? I know merit is definitely a big part of it. But even beyond just merit, I think the, the push for better schools, the push for a stronger education system. Do you see that as kind of what the Asian activism is heading into?

[Helen Raleigh]

Definitely. So there are two drivers within Asian communities. Political activism, both on immigration issues as well as education. Using myself example, why education is so into Asian community. I came here as an immigrant with less than $100 in my pocket. I was the first one in my family, you know, to come to United States. I had no other relations and have no other support. So I was able to obtain two master degrees based on merit, based on merit based scholarships. And so within the Asian community you see this bifurcation of. Some Asian Americans have been here for generations, you know, since 1850s. But some, some of us are like me, we're, we are new immigrants. So many of us come here with nothing. And education has been our only way to realize our American dream, to climb the economic ladder. That, that is why it is so important of Asian Americans to have a fair education system where our kids can have fair chance, not, not have to suffer Asian penalty just because they're Asian. That's why they have to score, you know, hundreds of points of hire and be subject to all those biases, personality biases as well.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're going to take a Quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

[Richard Karn]

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[Carol Markowitz]

Have been some successes in Asian activism in the last, I don't know, decade or two?

[Helen Raleigh]

Well, definitely the Supreme Court cases, the SFA versus Harvard. That case lasted for almost a decade but eventually, I mean Harvard fought for the tooth and nail with all its financial power but in the end the Supreme Court ruled against Harvard. Basically deemed Harvard race based college admission. Yeah. Is unconstitutional. And also as I mentioned earlier, there are ballot initiatives successes, you know, both in California as well as Washington state that they push back about the ballot initiative to bring back affirmative actions, the Harvard one.

[Carol Markowitz]

Do you feel like there has been a shift in their admissions? I know they're not allowed to take race into consideration anymore, but it seems like they still do.

[Helen Raleigh]

Yes, in Harvard's particular case, they still do it in a very sneaky way. Instead of outright ask the student to identify the race, they were asking probing questions such as tell us about your life life experiences. So. So yes. So the change is slowly coming from some of the higher app. But I definitely see changes in other areas too. You know for example University of Florida, you know, before your current searching for the president, University of Florida actually canceled under Ben Sasse. President Ben Sasse. They canceled all their dei, you know, initiative and use the money to fund other, you know, education purposes. And also you see this bigger change in corporate world. A lot of corporations, even including high tech, which is a very vocal area, they actually push back on DEI hirings as well as remove race from some of their hiring practice. So I definitely see more changes happening in the corporate world as well. So there's definitely changes.

[Carol Markowitz]

So you're optimistic?

[Helen Raleigh]

I am. I'm definitely am. And also with the last election, you see education as well as crime are two of the factors or two of the factors driving more Asians voted for the Republicans, including Donald Trump. Especially those votes made a difference in a tight racist area such as Nevada. So I definitely see there's a, you know, political shift among the Asian American populations as well as, you know, because the success build on success. Right. When they see, you know, some success can happen.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Helen Raleigh]

Even in blue state, like blue cities like San Francisco, then there's more desire and more motivation to build on our success to be more politically involved. So I definitely see that.

[Carol Markowitz]

What era of Asian American activism was your favorite to cover in your book?

[Helen Raleigh]

Not outsiders, probably the present one. But there were some interesting ones from the early eras as well. I don't know if, you know, if I would. Because the present one is more related to.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, of course.

[Helen Raleigh]

Here and now.

[Carol Markowitz]

Makes sense to you. Yeah, right, right.

[Helen Raleigh]

But there are some interesting stories. Let me just tell you one, because that story is really illustrate how America is more than a place. It is this idea. And anybody could come to this country and embrace this idea and become American overnight. So in the early in the 19th century that there was a Chinese supposedly first prostitute, you know, from, from China. And, you know, prostitution, prostitutes normally was treated very poorly back in China. They were like the lowest low, you know, in the society. Nobody, you know, bothered to even take them seriously or care about them. So this, this woman, you know, she later opened her own brothel. And in Chinatown, the gangsters came to demand protection money to pay the protection money. And she refused to pay. Guess what she said? She said, I'm in America now.

[Carol Markowitz]

I'm American.

[Helen Raleigh]

I have rights. You can't just ask me to pay the, you know, protection money. If you don't go away, I'm going to sue you. I'm going to report you to the police.

[Carol Markowitz]

You know, what era was that? What time frame?

[Helen Raleigh]

The 19th century. Because she was the first, you know, Chinese prostitute. And so this was during the era where the Chinese faced the systematic, you know, discrimination from the, you know, from the state. Yet it took no time for her to realize she's in a different country now. She's American, she has rights. She can use the legal means to protect herself and her business. I always find that stories fascinating. Despite of her profession.

[Richard Karn]

Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Was it legal? Was prostitution legal?

[Helen Raleigh]

Well, back then in the 19th century.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's questionable.

[Helen Raleigh]

It's questionable. And it probably also helped that the chief of the San Francisco police was one of her regulars. Yes, yes. But it's her embrace of this idea overnight and she became a different person. I just find that story is fascinating. I, before I write this, before I wrote this book, I did not know about her, only through research about, you know, writing this book. I'm so glad I get to know her story and, you know, get to put her story in my book. You know, keep her name remembered by other people. This is the earliest Asian Americans. How they embrace the American ideal and define themselves, protect themselves.

[Carol Markowitz]

What made you become an American by choice?

[Helen Raleigh]

That's an interesting question. So as I mentioned earlier, I grew up in communist China. And in my lifetime I experienced dramatic political as well as economic changes. So when I was young in China, there were still rationing system. Everything was rationed, including food. So my Chinese name happened to be a boy's name. And you know, the, the food ration was based, distributed based on gender as well as age. So for the same age boys and girls, a boy was allocated, you know, four more pound of rice each month than a girl. But because my name was a boy's name, and the bureaucrats, you know, you know how incompetent they were, they tend to make mistakes. So for a while, I, I was receiving a food ration that meant for a bullet. But even with those additional formal pound of rice, I was still hungry all the time. My childhood dream were often filled with food. I was dreaming about food. Yeah. So eventually, you know, when the police came to our house to do, you know, random search, which was totally normal back then in China, they did not need a warrant. And of course, you know, he compare our papers versus people in the house. He realized the government, government made a mistake. I received supposedly additional food ration. So he demanded my family to pull to pay the government back. And that experience really left a profound impact in my heart. I didn't think about the grand, you know, ideas such as freedom and equality. All I thought was, you know, first of all, why did I have to eat less food just because I grow right? And the second of all, who gets to excite except me? Why can't I decide how much I have, you know, I could eat. And it was those primal ideas from that experience showed me that eventually I decided I want to go to a place where I get to decide how I want to live my life, including how much food I want to eat.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. The freedom to eat, how much you want is so basic.

[Helen Raleigh]

Yeah, it's so basic. Yet in the different society under authoritarian regime, that is something we've been deprived of. So, yeah, so it's those basic ideas from those early days, childhood experience drove me to want to come to America, you know, to live a different kind of life.

[Carol Markowitz]

What do you worry about?

[Helen Raleigh]

My biggest worry is that the west, including United States, there are some people in the west, in United States, they do not cherish what the country, what this Western ideal has offered to them. They are bent down to destroying it. And somehow they feel like they can always do better than the communists in China or the communist former Soviet Union. And I've been screaming on top of my lungs to say, you are not going to do better. It has been tried everywhere. They all fail. Do not give up. What do you, you know, what do you have here? And especially I don't want to live in a life kind of life again. And that's my biggest worry, that people who here are so used to the freedom and the prosperity provided by this system that they are ready to throw it away, and they're working hard to throw it away.

[Carol Markowitz]

They don't know that it's been tried in all the different ways that they imagine it hasn't been tried. I always hear from especially young people who think leftism is just, you know, just another idea, just another path that we could all take. Yeah, they don't understand. They think that, oh, if I we'll do it better now, we'll do it differently now. But it's been tried in all these different ways. They all thought that they would do it better. They all thought that they. They could force an equal outcome. And, you know, they ended up, many of them dead because of it. So do you say that that's a lack of education or what is it?

[Helen Raleigh]

I think is. Definitely education is a big part of it, because our schools as you, you know, you have kids in schools, so, you know that our schools are now focused on teaching kids the truth about what's really happened, you know, like in communism, as well as the truth and beauty of a, you know, Western society. But I also think beyond education is that there's also misunderstanding of the issues. The problem we see in our Society, it's been mischaracterized as you know, capitalism, capitalism. That's why we have poverty, that's why we have homeless problem without drill down to the root cause of those mostly come out of government policies. So I think we do, yeah, definitely. Education is the start that we need to educate our kids, young people better about not only about the evil of communism that you and I live through, but also about the truth and beauty, prosperity of what the Western civilization, about what American ideal have afforded us. You know, we need to do from both angles.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

[Richard Karn]

Hi, I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with pocket pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting radio exclusive offer just for you for a limited time. You can get a free pocket Pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase W A T E R to 64,000.

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[Carol Markowitz]

What would you tell your 16 year old self? What advice would you give her?

[Helen Raleigh]

I would tell myself that it's a modified quote from Dr. Martin Luther King. He said, you know, it's always the right time to do the right thing. So I would tell my 16 year old self that if you believe it's the right thing to do, don't wait too long to do it. And it's not. He was more referred to social justice issues. But I would see it as more just generally for life, you know, life wisdoms like, you know, if you believe it's the right time to have kids and honestly there's no Right time to have kids. Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

I like to say the right time to have kids is right now.

[Helen Raleigh]

Exactly. I like, I like what you're thinking. You know, the only, the reason I think that because, you know, personally, I feel, I feel one of my biggest regrets is I waited too long because I, when I was, you know, young, I. My head was filled with this idea that the career comes first and, you know, ambition comes first and, you know, having kids can wait. But, you know, after losing my child through pregnancy loss, that I finally realized that, you know, there are certain things just cannot wait in life that, and there's no perfect timing for the things you want to do. So, and, and you know, what ambitions and the careers, those things are important. But you probably heard the saying as well as I do that nobody on their deathbed wish they're, you know, more famous or work the more. Right, sure. The sooner we realize what really matters in life and put time and the resource to do in it right away, the better. So that's what I would tell myself, like, and also all other young women, that if you believe it's the right thing to do, do not wait to have kids.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that so much, and I talk about that a lot on this show where women are kind of deferring childbirth. They're waiting to have kids. Look, sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes the timing isn't right. You know, I was best friends with my husband for a decade before we started dating. We wasted a lot of time, time just being friends and we could have been married and having kids. But the idea that you put off family to have a career, I think that that's backwards. I think it's a lot easier to have a career when you have stability and you have family and you have the things that you set out to have. I've loved this conversation. I think you have so many interesting things to say and I, I think your book is fantastic. Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Helen Raleigh]

Well, I, I'm hesitant to tell other people how to improve their lives.

[Carol Markowitz]

Okay. You can tell them. They, you know.

[Helen Raleigh]

Well, from my own experience, I would say as I getting older, I learned that not to waste the time on people. Other things are not worth it, but definitely be generous with your time and attention with the people and, you know, things that you consider that worth it. A quick example. When I was, when I used to talk, before I lost my child, when I used to talk to my parents on FaceTime, I used to put the phone against my computer. So I wasn't really paying attention, you know. You know, like, you know I hear them babbling. I know I heard the babbling, but I'm like, oh, they're just repeating the same old stuff again and again, you know. But after I lost my child, I realized that I'm not always going to have my last one. I mean my loved one tomorrow. Right. We do not know what the tomorrow hold. So. And I realized my parents are not always going to be here forever and someday I'm going to regret I'm not paying attention to what they say. So nowadays when I talk to them, computers shut off. I give them my full attention even if they tell me things they told me like a hundred times before. Yeah, and your parents know that. Your parents know when you are paying attention, when you are not.

[Carol Markowitz]

Of course.

[Helen Raleigh]

And I'm just grateful because I see other people who already lost their parents. I'm grateful that I still have my parents here. And so I think the highest form of generosity is always be willing to share your time and attention with the people you care. So don't waste time on people not worth it. But be generous with people who definitely are worth it.

[Carol Markowitz]

I love that so much. She is Helen Raleigh. Her book is Not Outsiders, Asian Americans, Political activism from the 19th century to today. Buy it anywhere. Thank you so much for coming on, Helen.

[Helen Raleigh]

Thank you.

[Richard Karn]

Hi, I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with pocket pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose. Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting radio exclusive offer just for you for a limited time you can get a free Pocket Pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000. For your two free gifts with purchase w a t e r to 64,000.

[Pocket Hose Advertisement]

By texting 64,000 you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Host message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. [e-mail] Terms this is an iHeart podcast.