The Karol Markowicz Show: The Evolution of Media and Journalism with Eli Lake

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: The Karol Markowicz Show: The Evolution of Media and Journalism with Eli Lake
Release Date: August 15, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Karol Markowicz Show on iHeartRadio, host Carol Markowitz sits down with Eli Lake, a renowned columnist at Free Press and host of the Breaking History podcast. The conversation delves deep into Eli's extensive background in journalism, his perspectives on the current state and evolution of media, and his insights into pressing political and social issues.

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Eli Lake's Background and Career Path

Early Life and Education
Eli Lake begins by sharing his personal journey, originating from Philadelphia, and his early interest in writing fostered by intellectually stimulating family environments. “I grew up in Philadelphia. I was always interested in writing... I like learning, but I'm kind of being a dilettante,” he mentions (03:11).

Journalistic Beginnings
Opting out of the traditional academic path, Eli highlights his entry into journalism through various roles, including opposition research and working for a newsletter focused on the Environmental Protection Agency. “I found that I really liked it, which is that some people like deadlines or can handle deadlines. Nobody really likes deadlines,” Eli reflects (04:56).

Career Progression
Eli's career trajectory includes significant stints at the New York Sun, the Forward (New York's oldest Jewish newspaper), and UPI as a State Department correspondent. His move to prominent publications like The New Republic, The Weekly Standard, and The National Review further cemented his reputation. “I was the State Department correspondent for UPI... It was an amazing opportunity for me as a young journalist,” he states (05:35).

Transition to Digital Media
Following the closure of the New York Sun during the 2008 financial crisis, Eli transitioned to digital platforms, joining the Washington Times and later the Daily Beast under Tina Brown’s leadership. His eventual move to Bloomberg as a columnist and founding of the Breaking History podcast showcases his adaptability in the evolving media landscape. “Once Barry Weiss started the Free Press... it reminds me a lot of being at the young Daily Beast,” Eli notes (07:08).

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Evolution of Media and Journalism

Shift from Traditional to Digital
Eli discusses the transformation of journalism from traditional print to digital platforms, emphasizing the dynamic environment and opportunities presented by digital media. “The Daily Beast was a really exciting place... That's kind of like what the Free Press feels like,” he explains, drawing parallels between past and present media environments (07:08).

Role of Free Press and New Media Outlets
Highlighting the success of Free Press, Eli contrasts it with established outlets like The New York Times and The Washington Post, criticizing their perceived biases and lack of genuine journalistic integrity. “The Times and the Washington Post... it's like they still are kind of giving you the same slanted... That's an opinion piece kind of masquerading as front page news analysis,” he critiques at (09:14).

Normie Publications vs. Alternative Media
Eli introduces the concept of "Normie Publications"—mainstream media outlets that cater to general audiences but often fall short in objective reporting. “There's a built-in advantage for, I don't want to say alternative, but like just Normie Publications,” Eli remarks (09:22).

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Critique of Mainstream Media Bias

Mainstream Media’s Slant and Editorial Choices
Eli expresses concern over mainstream media's tendency to blur the lines between opinion and factual reporting. He cites specific examples where news outlets present partisan viewpoints under the guise of objective journalism. “That's a, that's an opinion piece kind of masquerading as front page news analysis,” Eli asserts regarding The New York Times and The Washington Post (09:14).

Impact on Public Perception and Trust
This blending of opinion and news, according to Eli, erodes public trust in media institutions. He emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between genuine reporting and opinion-driven content to maintain journalistic integrity.

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Analysis of Current Events: Epstein and Intelligence Agencies

Discussion on Jeffrey Epstein and Mossad
A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the mysterious circumstances surrounding Jeffrey Epstein's death and the allegations of Mossad's involvement. Eli maintains skepticism about claims linking Epstein's death to Israeli intelligence, stating, “I don't think Mossad is doing blackmail operations against Americans... there is no evidence to suggest at this point” (22:11).

Questioning Media Narratives and Evidence
Eli and Carol critique the spread of unverified theories and the responsibility of journalists to avoid sensationalism without substantive evidence. “There is literally zero evidence for this,” Eli emphasizes when discussing Mossad's alleged role (20:23).

Personal Accountability and Bias
Eli reflects on his initial beliefs and subsequent realizations about high-profile figures involved in Epstein's case, acknowledging his errors and the importance of transparency in journalism. “I apologize for being wrong...” he admits, highlighting the necessity for journalists to revisit and reassess their positions based on new information (21:19).

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Personal Insights and Concerns

Worries for the Future
Eli shares personal concerns rooted in his role as a father, particularly regarding the societal and cultural environment his young daughter will grow up in. “I want her to have the kinds of things that I guess I took for granted in my life... I just very rare. I don't want her to kind of come into a culture where all the things that I took for granted are not available for her,” he expresses (25:10).

Optimism Amidst Challenges
Despite these concerns, Eli maintains an optimistic outlook on America and Israel, believing in their resilience and ability to adapt positively. “I'm especially an optimist about America. I'm also an optimist about Israel,” he affirms, underscoring his faith in the systems and cultural shifts underway (26:51).

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Future Outlook and Optimism

Cultural Shifts and the Role of Elite Institutions
Eli observes that elite institutions are beginning to recognize and move away from unsustainable practices like overemphasis on DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) and intersectionalism. “There's a recognition in these elite schools... Hey, this isn't really sustainable,” he notes (27:32).

Political Climate and Change
He discusses the impact of political movements, particularly the Trump administration's policies on higher education, seeing them as catalysts for necessary change. “I think the Trump election is jolting a lot of things... but we're in a change and it's good. We needed to change,” Eli states (27:32).

Public Sentiment and National Identity
Referencing alarming statistics about patriotism among political parties, Eli underscores the importance of national unity and constructive discourse. “That statistic that came out that 93% of Republicans love their country and like 36% of Democrats do... you kind of have to, like, at a certain point,” he explains (28:39).

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Advice to Young Listeners

Emphasis on Reading and Self-Education
Eli advises listeners to dedicate time to reading or listening to books to enhance their knowledge and critical thinking skills. “Find time in your week to read or listen to books... don’t let... go out and like, you don’t have to depend on these other people filtering stuff,” he recommends (33:09).

Critical Consumption of Information
He encourages independent thinking and direct engagement with source materials rather than relying solely on influencers or filtered content. “Read books or listen to books... that's my advice,” Eli concludes, advocating for a proactive approach to learning and information consumption (34:34).

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Carol Markowitz expressing gratitude for Eli Lake's insightful contributions, highlighting his role as a credible voice in contemporary journalism. Eli reiterates his commitment to fostering informed discussions and encouraging personal growth through continuous learning.

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Notable Quotes

• Eli Lake (03:11): “I was always interested in writing... I like learning, but I'm kind of being a dilettante.”
• Eli Lake (09:14): “That's an opinion piece kind of masquerading as front page news analysis.”
• Eli Lake (20:23): “There is literally zero evidence for this.”
• Eli Lake (25:10): “I don’t want her to kind of come into a culture where all the things that I took for granted are not available for her.”
• Eli Lake (33:09): “Find time in your week to read or listen to books... don't let... go out and like, you don’t have to depend on these other people filtering stuff.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of Eli Lake's perspectives on journalism's current landscape, media biases, and the interplay between politics and public perception. His candid reflections and forward-thinking advice provide valuable insights for listeners navigating the complexities of modern media and societal changes.

Transcript

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[Eli Lake]

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[Carol Markowitz]

Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Eli Lake, Free Press columnist and the host of the Breaking History podcast. Hi, Eli. So nice to have you on.

[Eli Lake]

Oh, it's great to be here, Carol. Thanks for having me.

[Carol Markowitz]

So I've read you for years and years, and I don't know your background or how you got into this thing of ours. I'd love to hear more about that.

[Eli Lake]

Sure. Well, I grew up in Philadelphia.

[Carol Markowitz]

I wrote kind of always sorry, Dallas Cowboys fans. I have to boo whenever we mention Philly.

[Eli Lake]

You know, fair enough. I actually have an uncle who. Who moved to Dallas. And it was a funny thing in my family, but I guess, you know, I was always interested in writing. I grew up. My parents, you know, had a lot of kind of intellectual friends, so there was an emphasis on learning and reading and so forth. And at the same time, I didn't really feel like I had the personality to do years of grad school like my wife. So I wanted to. I like learning, but I'm. And I like kind of being a dilettante. So I think journalism is the ultimate profession for somebody who is a quick study and. But also, you know, doesn't want to kind of go into years of their. Of their 20s and, you know, in the politics of graduate school, which is kind of almost like one of the last bastions of feudalism in our society, and that you're basically kind of an intellectual slave until you get your tenure track position. And there's no. Anyway, could go into that. So I sort of decided that that wasn't for me. And I had a year where I did all kinds of jobs. At one point, I was doing opposition research. And then I finally got a job working in Washington for a newsletter that covered the Environmental Protection Agency. And it was a great. I found that I really liked it, which is that some people like deadlines or can handle deadlines. Nobody really likes deadlines.

[Carol Markowitz]

I need deadlines. If I don't have a deadline, I'm never. I'm never doing it.

[Eli Lake]

Me, too.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

So it's like they're so. They're very smart people who kind of wash out in their first job in journalism because there's enormous amount of pressure to just kind of get it on the page and get it. Get it out. And some of us kind of thrive in that environment.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thrive on it, for sure.

[Eli Lake]

Yeah. And I thrived on it. And it kind of, you know, went from there, and, you know, it kind of, you know, you sort of realize that you sort of have a talent for it, and obviously there's a lot to learn. I feel that writing is one of those skills that you. It's, it's. You're constantly kind of getting better at it. You should always try to get better at it. So I look at it like that. And then like, you know, over time, I guess I kind of got my first big break out of what's known as trade publications by getting a job with something called the New York Sun. Sorry, no, that was before the New York Sun.

[Carol Markowitz]

Love the New York Sun.

[Eli Lake]

Yeah, I was one of the OGs from the new York sun, but I actually, before that I was at the Forward, which is the oldest Jewish newspaper in New York. And that was when Seth Lipsky was still the editor and Seth became a mentor, and so I had that job. And then the workman circle booted Seth Lipsky and he started the New York Sun. And then I, in that kind of inner regnum, I was the State Department correspondent for upi, which is an old wire service that's maybe still around, but it used to be like the rival of the ap. So that was an amazing opportunity for me as a young journalist to travel with the Secretary of State, go to all these different countries, and kind of my introduction to kind of big time journalism. And then I started writing for the New Republic and the Weekly Standard and a little bit for the National Review. And I was at the New York Sun. So you just sort of. That's a career path. And I guess my next break after that, the New York sun ended its print run and had to lay off a lot of people. In 2008, right around the financial crisis, I went to the Washington Times. I did very well there under John Solomon, who was the editor at the time. He was picked up by Tina Brown's Daily Beast, right when they were acquiring Newsweek. So I got hired at Daily Beast.

[Carol Markowitz]

Newsweek, yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

And that was another kind of big break for me. And I did that for a while, and then Bloomberg made me a columnist. And that was a wonderful gig. And then that, you know, eventually, you know, we parted ways and I started a podcast originally called the Re Education, and now it's called Breaking History. And once Barry Weiss started the Free Press, I wasn't, I wasn't in the first wave of hires, but I, I was writing for it a lot. And then I started at The Free Press January 2024. And I had to say, it's, it's, it Reminds me a lot of being you know, at the young Daily Beast. Daily Beast. Not great now, but yeah, when I was there, it was a really exciting place, you know, it was like, right. There's a lot of energy and that's, that's kind of like what the free press feels like. So it's nice to have to be part of like a growing, thriving publication.

[Carol Markowitz]

If free press is killing it. I mean, I don't know any publication that's, you know, anything that's come out in the last decade that's doing anything near what they're doing. It's amazing to us.

[Eli Lake]

Well, in some ways it's like, easy for us. Right? I mean, because the big outlets, which have more resources, still won't like, touch certain stories that you think they'd learn the lesson, you know, so our, like, we have.

[Carol Markowitz]

Except the New York Post, of course.

[Eli Lake]

No, no, the New York Post. I'm saying, like the Times and the Washington Post, it's like they still are kind of giving you the same slanted. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, that Time story on like Bibi trying to prolong the war.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, I've seen that story in left Israeli outlets. Like, that is not a new story. It just. They thought it was new and they repackaged it for an American.

[Eli Lake]

Exactly right, Carol. And like, that's just one example. But I'm saying, is that. Okay, fine, I expect that in the Nation or Drop site or Guardian or something like that. Those are ideological outlets. The Times, though, is still kind of pretending to be like all the news that's fit to print.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Eli Lake]

And it's not. That's a, that's an opinion piece kind of masquerading as front page news analysis. So.

[Carol Markowitz]

Absolutely.

[Eli Lake]

We have, I think there's a built in advantage for, I don't want to say alternative, but like just Normie Publications.

[Carol Markowitz]

Normie. Normie is a great word for it. Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

Like my, you know, my other podcast is called Normally and that's the, that's the idea.

[Eli Lake]

Like, that's with Mary Normie News, you.

[Carol Markowitz]

Know, with Mary Kathryn Ham. That's right.

[Eli Lake]

I love, I love that podcast and I love the.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thank you.

[Eli Lake]

Mary Catherine is so great. She's so.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thanks so much.

[Eli Lake]

Great Twitter.

[Carol Markowitz]

So you refer to yourself as a dilettante, but I don't see you like that at all. I see you as a very serious foreign policy guy who is not just dabbling and not just learning topics overnight. And you know, the way we all become experts on X on any Any new topic. You seem. You seem kind of the real thing.

[Eli Lake]

Well, thank you. I. When I say dilettante, what I mean is I have a lot of interests that I want to write about. And, you know, I've been doing it for a long time now, so the. I compared to somebody who, I don't know, studied at Princeton University, Turkish and Arabic and like, you know, I don't. I can't compare to that, to writing about the Middle east, but I know a lot of.

[Carol Markowitz]

I don't even rate that anyway, so.

[Eli Lake]

That'S kind of what I meant in that respect. But dilettant is not a bad thing. It means you're.

[Carol Markowitz]

No, it's not.

[Eli Lake]

It's. You're curious. It's. It's. I don't. You shouldn't be an irresponsible dilettante. You shouldn't, like, allow ChatGPT to be your researcher. You should read books. That's very important. Reading books, like, as opposed to. But I. So I do that. But at the same time, I, My, My role models were people like Christopher Hitchens or the kind of essayists, intellectual journalists. That's what I aspire in some ways to be, and that's kind of how I look at what I'm trying to do. And nobody would say there's a difference between reading and, I don't know, like, there's a difference between reading Robert Conquest, who kind of wrote the definitive history of the Soviet Union before the collapse of the Soviet Union, versus somebody who's going to write, like, really, like a journalist who's going to write really well about it. There's different things. Like historians. I have too much respect for what good historians do. There's a lot of very bad historians.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right now, but I, of course, historians.

[Eli Lake]

Well, there are. And like, sadly, like academic historians. Like, I'm. But so that's. That's kind of what I mean by it. But thank you for saying that. I do try to. I mean, like, you know, and first of all, you've been writing. If you write about this stuff for a long time, you, you, you really kind of get to know it. It does help. I have been to a lot of these places. I've even, you know, I used to say I've been to all the axis of Evil countries. That's a throwback reference now, but I have.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

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[Eli Lake]

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[Carol Markowitz]

So any other paths that you would have chosen? Like, were you always going to be a writer or was there a plan B in case that didn't work out?

[Eli Lake]

I don't know if there was a plan B. I love music, and I played piano, and I played music since I was six. Maybe before then my parents bought a piano in our house and it was, you know, great. So in that respect, I played, you know, if I would have, like, stuck with it, I could see myself being a musician. And I think about that now because I love making AI songs on studio, and it's like, one of my favorite activities. So in my podcast, I. Every. Every podcast has at least one original AI song that's about the topic.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

So I could see myself maybe being a musician. The problem is that it's such a.

[Carol Markowitz]

Risky kind of proposition that's less of a plan B than it is like a sub plan A.

[Eli Lake]

But, yeah, I mean, but I love. I love music.

[Carol Markowitz]

Plan Plan Bs are usually like, I would be an accountant, Right?

[Eli Lake]

Sure.

[Carol Markowitz]

Something. Something more reliable.

[Eli Lake]

My father at one point really wanted me to go to law school, and I didn't do that.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's it?

[Eli Lake]

Yeah, in part. Like, I just didn't do it because I just know I don't have the kind of personality. There's a certain kind of personality that you have to have.

[Carol Markowitz]

There is. Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

And I, again, I have friends who are lawyers. I respect what lawyers do. I'm not gonna make lawyer jokes. For me, I like being a journalist because we get to, like, kind of criticize at least our generation, I should say. The journalists that have come up in recent years, not all of them, but a lot of them, are not, in my view, they're like, kind of. They're not really journalists. How do I put it? Like, the journalistic instinct is that if there's an interest group or a pressure group that says, you shouldn't talk about X, the journalist shouldn't talk about it. Instinct is like, well, let's find out why not to criticize other journalists who talk about X? Because the pressure group. And by the way, the entire trans debate, that can sort of sum it up, right? There were a series of pieces that were done basically saying, look at these people who are, you know, questioning youth, gender, medicine, or whatever. I'm like, yeah, that's our fricking job. And. Or like, I don't know, this is now kind of an old thing. But like, a few, I don't know, six, seven, six years ago, when the social media companies were completely out of control, there was like a unit of NBC News that would just like, report on average citizens.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Eli Lake]

And say, like, why haven't you banned this account? And that's not journalism, that's snitching. So for me, like, I.

[Carol Markowitz]

Not just NBC News, I could think of, like, New York Times articles about average citizens who might have done something wrong in their lives. I remember a girl who used the N word with an A at the end to, you know, to be exuberant. And the New York Times wrote a whole piece about her, including, you know, a guy who held onto that recording to specifically ruin her life. She was a nobody. I don't even know her name. She lost her college acceptance and, you know, just it was normal.

[Eli Lake]

Or the Washington Post did that piece about these two people who went to a party and they had a kind.

[Carol Markowitz]

Of Halloween party, Right.

[Eli Lake]

Halloween party with an inappropriate costume.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

And then like seven years later, they're like, you know, we're going to ruin your life. And to me, that's like, okay, that's dossy journalism. That's like. That's like communist block journalism.

[Carol Markowitz]

Get into line journalism.

[Eli Lake]

Exactly. So I'm not interested in that. And I understand, because that was. I mean, I think we're hopefully turning a corner. I understand why journalism has a bad reputation among Americans because they're associated with that kind of thing. But for me, the spirit of journalism is robust, passionate debate newsrooms should be places where, you know, occasionally people will, like, throw things at each other and scream at the top of their lungs in a story meeting because they completely disagree with them. That, to me, is great. I like that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

And that's why, you know, I don't have. To me, like, right now I'm concerned, as I think you might be, about the turn on the right to embrace the anti Israel, anti. Let's call it anti Semitism in some cases.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure, yeah.

[Eli Lake]

Of the left. Like, that's. That kind of horseshoe is disturbing to me. But I also want to always kind of keep in mind, like, I don't think just because I happen to be pro Israel that there shouldn't be certain topics that are off limits. Like, yeah, sure, let's look into how much food was allowed into Gaza during various points of the war. That's fine. I'm sure the IDF makes mistakes. I'm sure there have been 100%.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, sure, I would say I criticize Israel from the other Side, like, why are you.

[Eli Lake]

Sometimes that's okay, too. I just don't want to see kind of our side of it, so to speak, adopting the same kind of things. And like, this is like constantly, of.

[Carol Markowitz]

Course you should question. Of course. But it becomes like, you know, I mean, my audience knows that I record these far in advance, but we're recording this during the time where Mossad is allegedly, you know, bribing everyone in the country. And Donald Trump is probably suspect also because of the whole Epstein thing. And it's like there is literally zero evidence for, for this.

[Eli Lake]

Let's talk about this. I'm with you. There's zero evidence for it. Yeah, but, but let's, let's be totally. Let's put all of our cards on the table here.

[Carol Markowitz]

Okay.

[Eli Lake]

When Pam Bondi comes into office as the Attorney General and says the first thing we're going to do is release. I have the Epstein files right here.

[Carol Markowitz]

Of course. Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

Okay. I'm sorry. Stop playing with my emotions. Okay?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right.

[Eli Lake]

And second of all, I am not a hater of Kash Patel by any stretch. I think he did Yeoman's work on Russiagate. I think some of his post Russiagate media stuff, I don't agree with it. Maybe it's like hyperbolic, over the top, but, like, I'm not here to, like, crap on Kash Patel, but Cash Patel is somebody who, when he was out of government was like, very much believing that there was a cover up on Epstein and he has to do more than just do a 180. Fully agree with you, Elaine. I went in and I agreed with you.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes.

[Eli Lake]

And I finally got the keys to the kingdom and I saw everything.

[Carol Markowitz]

Turns out I was wrong. Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

Turns out I was wrong. And that just goes to show you. And so I apologize for being wrong. I went ahead over my skis and let me walk you through and really meet these people because I think Kash Patel and Dan Bongino have a lot of credibility with Maggie Nation. And there's an opportunity now to really do it, like, go on your show. Go on Megyn Kelly, I don't know, go on one of these shows and give them two hours and walk us through what you thought going in and what you ended up learning. Because when there's a vacuum like this, of course people are going to expect the worst and suspect the worst. And they. And absolutely. And that's. That's my criticism.

[Carol Markowitz]

You're fully right. Yeah. But of course, it's the Mossad part that I find, like, you know, did Mossad have anything to do with it?

[Eli Lake]

Let's talk about, you know, obviously, Mossad. I don't think Mossad is doing blackmail operations against Americans, which is what the Jeffrey Epstein against Donald Trump.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's not even just Americans. It would have to be Donald, like, it would have to be our president.

[Eli Lake]

Right. But the Mossad is an intelligence organization, a very lethal and effective intelligence organization, as just demonstrated in the 12 Day War and before with pager operations and so forth. They're in the skulduggery business. What I want to say here is I don't think that they're doing this against American politicians or American celebrities. And there is no evidence to suggest at this point other than a kind of throwaway comment that was made by a journalist I recently went through reading how did this thing start? But on the other hand, if you just wanted to look at, well, does. Do intelligence organizations, does the Mossad conduct what are known as honey traps? Of course they do.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure, sure. Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

Do they engage in blackmail? Of course they do. That's probably one of the ways they were able to penetrate Iran. I mean, it's a great. And as somebody who's written a lot about the Mossad over the years and, you know, has read a lot of books and talked to ex Mossad people and a couple current Mossad people over the. You know, as a journalist, I don't have, like, you know, if you, if you, if you just want to sort of say Mossad's an intelligence agency, and as an intelligence agency, it's in. It's up to its neck in a bunch of skullduggery. I agree, but that's not what, you know, what I'm saying. That doesn't mean.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, that's not what they're saying.

[Eli Lake]

That's not what they're saying. They're kind of going much further.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

And there are lots of unanswered questions about Jeffrey Epstein that I still have lots of skepticism about. I still am, like, not satisfied that he was. That the guards just happened to not catch him killing himself in the cell. I also have come to really want to love a good financial reporter to explain to me, this hedge fund with only one client, what the hell is that? He's got gazillions of dollars that he's supposedly managing. He has no experience, really, as a financial manager. Who are his clients? How did this happen? We're talking about a lot of money, so it might be. And I'm just throwing this out as a possibility that there is some perhaps, maybe not Even Mossad. It might be CIA, it might be. This might have been a sort of intelligence agency slush fund. That's happened before. What I want to try to do, and I did an episode of my podcast Breaking History on, it was about JFK and his assassination. And I did not come up by saying. I said, I think that Lee R.V. oswald did it and he was a lone assassin, which is boring at this point. But what I said is I kind of understand why so many Americans didn't believe it then and don't believe it now.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, they've been lied to about other things too.

[Eli Lake]

Exactly. And so when you have Bongino, Bondi and Patel doing a 180 and not explaining why, well, like, okay, I don't believe it. I don't think there's much evidence of this Epstein Mossad stuff. But I also kind of understand, like, wait a second, even these people are not being straight with us.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. All right, switching gears.

[Eli Lake]

Let's switch gears.

[Carol Markowitz]

What do you worry about?

[Eli Lake]

That's a great question. I have a four year old daughter, so of course I worry about the future for all kinds of reasons. For her little things, like, you know, she's at the age now when we are walking in the city. She can break away from me when we're crossing the street. That makes me crazy. So that's like an immediate thing, but in the more abstract sense. Like, I want her to have the kinds of things that I guess I took for granted in my life. Like, I want her to be able to go to college without being indoctrinated, without being intimidated because she's Jewish. I don't want her to, like, I. I don't want her to. I want her to be able to, like, have romantic relationships when she's of age without it being fraught with all this, you know, political stuff. Like, I just very rare. Like, I don't want her to kind of come into a culture where all the things that I took for granted are not available for her, including maybe you could say, the prosperity, the luck, that I was born when I was born and was able to have this kind of comfort and so forth. So I. So that. That's something I say I worry about. But on the other hand, I tend to be an optimist. I'm especially an optimist about America. I'm also an optimist about Israel. So I kind of feel like we're gonna get it right. And I see all kinds of reasons to think we are getting it right.

[Carol Markowitz]

So it's a very Optimistic moment, actually. I feel like people are, there's a lot of doom and gloom and, you know, black pilling, as the kids say, but it's actually a very, very optimistic, forward looking moment right now.

[Eli Lake]

Absolutely. I mean, listen, I think that, you know, there are, there are elements of the Trump administration's policies on higher education that I don't agree with and some that I really applaud. But I also think that, like, it's, I think we're also culturally at a moment where, like, there's an understanding in these elite schools, hey, this isn't really sustainable.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, things are changing.

[Eli Lake]

The battle is not over. It's like the war's not over yet. But there's been major things that have, you know, we went from, in the course of like four years maybe, where you had people at the commanding heights of our culture screaming DEI and intersectionalism and all this stuff is not a thing. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not a thing to like a real recognition and a Supreme Court decision. Like, that's big, huge stuff. And again, so I have, again, I have a lot of faith in our system and I think that the Trump election is un. Jostling a lot of things. Some of it will not be for good. I think a lot of it will be for good. But we're in a change and it's good. We needed to change. Like, I was depressed in 2020 and 2021 about, like, we're just stagnant. And I don't feel like we're stagnant as much anymore.

[Carol Markowitz]

I was negative on America for the first time in my life. Like, I was pessimistic for the very first time in my life. On. During that time, I thought we were heading in such a bad direction and it was scary.

[Eli Lake]

But what isn't it? Doesn't it. I mean, that statistic that came out that 93% of Republicans love their country and like 36% of Democrats do.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's a worrying number.

[Eli Lake]

Yeah, in a way it's worrying, but it's also like, wow, like, what is, you know, like, that's a wake up call. Like, you can't be a major natural party if most of the people who identify with it hate the country. Yeah. You gotta, you kind of have to, like, at a certain point, sort of.

[Carol Markowitz]

Part of the bargain.

[Eli Lake]

The argument can't be, yeah, America sucks. It's gotta be, yeah, America's great, and here's how to make it better.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're gonna take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

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Ugh.

[Eli Lake]

Come on. Why is this taking so long?

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[Carol Markowitz]

What advice would you give your 16 year old self?

[Eli Lake]

Well, the first thing I guess I would say is you have ADHD and it has been. Not been diagnosed yet. That explains why you're constantly like reading like seven books at the same time. It's fine, you know, you'll. But like that's the first thing I would say. There's nothing wrong with you. It's like, you know. But the second thing I guess I would say is believe in your own talent. Like you have, you have the ability to write for a living. Like you should, you should do that because by 16, I think I knew I wanted to do it. Just stick with it because I wasn't a good writer at age 16. Very few people are.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure.

[Eli Lake]

And don't be demoralized about it. So I don't know if that's a good.

[Carol Markowitz]

I like that. Yeah, definitely stick with it and don't be demoralized is good advice for that age. I've loved this conversation. You are just somebody I love hearing from.

[Eli Lake]

Thank you Carol.

[Carol Markowitz]

And always love reading. You leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Eli Lake]

I think the best tip would be find time in your week to read or listen to books. If you don't like reading books, if you can't find that stillness, take a walk and put on an audiobook to learn and dive into things that you're passionate about. So in my view, don't let. It's great to listen to podcasts. It's great to. I understand that we're living in the era of influencers and that's fine. Maybe I'm sort of an influencer, I don't know. And you're certainly an influencer.

[Carol Markowitz]

You influence me. Yeah.

[Eli Lake]

But what I mean to say is there's a whole world out there and you can become like, you don't have to depend on these other people filtering stuff go out. Like I find like I have a mixed kind. I'm not a doomer about artificial intelligence and I'm also not like I don't think it's the greatest thing in the world, but one of the things that I do that helps me with, you know, when I, when I do these deep dives for breaking history, I just ask the, the chatgpt or I use GROK a lot now what are the three best books on X? And if you just do that and then you know, they're not always going to be right. But like you can get a little summary in the answer and if it looks like it's pretty good, that's what, that's what I would say. Read books or listen to books. Like that's my advice.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, absolutely. So you can, you know, go to the source material. Don't just rely on influencers. He is Eli Lake. Read him at Free Press. Listen to the Breaking History podcast anywhere you get your podcasts. Thank you so much, Eli, for coming on.

[Eli Lake]

Thank you, Carol.

[Podcast Announcer]

Every business has an ambition. PayPal open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours with business loans so you can expand and access to hundreds of millions of PayPal customers worldwide. And your customers can pay all the ways they want with PayPal, Venmo pay later and all major cards so you can focus on scaling up when it's time to get growing. There's one platform for all business business PayPal open grow today at paypalopen.com loans subject to approval in available locations.

[Eli Lake]

Ah, come on.

[Cindy Crawford]

Why is this taking so long?

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