The Karol Markowicz Show: The Journey of a Crime Fighter with Rafael Mangual

Summary

Podcast Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Episode: The Karol Markowicz Show: The Journey of a Crime Fighter with Rafael Mangual
Host: Carol Markowitz
Guest: Rafael Mangual
Release Date: June 18, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, host Carol Markowitz sits down with Rafael Mangual, a prominent figure in criminology and public safety. Mangual, a Nick O'Neill Fellow and head of research for the Manhattan Institute's Policing and Public Safety Initiative, delves into his journey from a challenging upbringing to becoming a respected author and advocate for effective criminal justice policies.

Early Life and Inspiration

Rafael Mangual opens up about his formative years, highlighting the profound influence of his father, an NYPD detective. Growing up in Brooklyn during the 1980s and 1990s—a time when New York City grappled with high crime rates—Mangual was deeply affected by the omnipresent theme of crime in his environment.

Rafael Mangual (04:19): "My father was a cop, you know, so to me, he was Batman."

Despite living in a relatively safe area of Brooklyn, Mangual recounts memories of proximity to more troubled neighborhoods and the constant presence of crime in media and daily life. These experiences ignited his passion for understanding and combating criminal behavior from an early age.

College and Shift in Views

Mangual's path to criminology was unconventional. Initially, he wasn't academically inclined and did not intend to pursue higher education. His enrollment in college was a result of his participation in baseball, not academic ambition.

Rafael Mangual (07:20): "I didn't take advantage of the opportunities that were out there."

A pivotal moment occurred during his sophomore year in a sociology class, where a guest speaker—an ex-convict incarcerated under the Rockefeller drug laws—delivered a vehement critique of the NYPD and the broader criminal justice system. Mangual observed a disconnect between the speaker's rhetoric and the reality he had grown up with, fostering skepticism and shaping his conservative viewpoints.

Rafael Mangual (06:27): "You don't actually believe him, do you? We all know he's full of it."

This experience propelled Mangual to independently research policing and criminal justice, leading him to discover influential publications like City Journal and the Manhattan Institute. By his early twenties, he was firmly set on a path to contribute to criminology through research and policy advocacy.

Writing Criminal Injustice

Mangual's 2022 book, Criminal Injustice, emerged from the heightened societal focus on crime following the Ferguson protests and the subsequent national homicide spikes. His firsthand experience, including witnessing a shooting in Chicago, fueled his determination to address what he perceived as widespread misconceptions about crime and policing.

Rafael Mangual (08:38): "I wanted to attack the assumptions undergirding those bad ideas."

The book argues against policies like defunding the police and decarceration, asserting that such measures disproportionately harm the very communities they intend to help. Mangual emphasizes the historical context of the 1990s crime decline, which he regards as a significant achievement now overshadowed by progressive policy shifts.

Rafael Mangual (10:37): "If you care about these communities, you have to address the one thing that is affecting them more than anyone else."

Impact and Current Issues

Three years post-publication, Mangual reflects on the tangible impacts of his work. He notes a surge in support from law enforcement organizations, Republicans in Congress, and even unexpected allies such as educators who have incorporated his book into curricula to foster critical discussions about policing and public safety.

Rafael Mangual (20:20): "The books and the outreach have helped create the kind of tide turn that I think we're seeing now."

The political landscape has shifted, with significant electoral defeats for progressive prosecutors and reforms. States like California, Arizona, and Colorado have rolled back earlier progressive policies, reinstating tougher stances on crime and supporting law enforcement initiatives.

Rafael Mangual (22:02): "Pamela Price, the progressive prosecutor in Oakland, was recalled along with the anti-police mayor."

Mangual attributes this shift to increased public awareness and understanding of criminal justice issues, driven in part by his and his colleagues' efforts to highlight the consequences of progressive policies on crime rates.

Personal Reflections and Advice

Throughout the interview, Mangual shares personal anecdotes that illustrate his dedication to public safety and his journey of self-improvement. He candidly discusses his struggles with academic focus during his youth, the lessons learned from past mistakes, and the discipline required to succeed in his field.

Rafael Mangual (30:30): "The piece of advice I would give is, take school more seriously. I closed a lot of doors that I could have opened instead."

Mangual also offers practical advice for listeners, emphasizing the importance of maximizing downtime for personal growth and maintaining physical health as tools for managing stress and enhancing productivity.

Rafael Mangual (33:39): "Take advantage of your downtime and listen to something educational."

Conclusion

Rafael Mangual's journey from a Brooklyn upbringing amidst rising crime rates to becoming a leading voice in criminology underscores the profound impact of personal experiences on professional trajectories. His work, particularly Criminal Injustice, has significantly influenced public discourse and policy on criminal justice, highlighting the critical balance between progressive reforms and effective law enforcement. Through his research, writing, and advocacy, Mangual continues to strive for a safer and more just society, making this episode a must-listen for those interested in the intricacies of crime fighting and public safety.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rafael Mangual (04:19): "My father was a cop, you know, so to me, he was Batman."
• Rafael Mangual (06:27): "You don't actually believe him, do you? We all know he's full of it."
• Rafael Mangual (08:38): "I wanted to attack the assumptions undergirding those bad ideas."
• Rafael Mangual (10:37): "If you care about these communities, you have to address the one thing that is affecting them more than anyone else."
• Rafael Mangual (20:20): "The books and the outreach have helped create the kind of tide turn that I think we're seeing now."
• Rafael Mangual (30:30): "The piece of advice I would give is, take school more seriously. I closed a lot of doors that I could have opened instead."
• Rafael Mangual (33:39): "Take advantage of your downtime and listen to something educational."

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This structured summary provides a comprehensive overview of the episode, highlighting Rafael Mangual's background, motivations, key arguments in his work, and the societal impact of his efforts. By incorporating direct quotes with timestamps, listeners can easily reference pivotal moments in the conversation.

Transcript

[Carol Markowitz]

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[Rafael Manguel]

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[Ameca Insurance Representative]

So great to be with you. Always been a big fan of your works.

[Carol Markowitz]

I've always been a big fan of your work as well. We run into each other at events, but I kind of feel like I don't know enough about how you got into this world and what made you become a crime fighter.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Yeah, it's, you know, it's a question that I've gotten a few times. And, you know, it was a very circuitous route. I will say I'm not your sort of typical think tank scholar. You know, my father was a, was an NYPD detective. I think that had a lot to do with it. You know, growing up in 1980s and 90s New York City, crime was on everybody's minds. It was on every TV show. The, you know, WP borough, Brooklyn.

[Carol Markowitz]

Best one, Brooklyn boy.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Yeah. So, you know, I didn't grow up in the worst part of Brooklyn. I mean, we lived on Ocean Parkway between Church and Katon, you know, so relatively nice area. But, you know, we were very close to some rough ones, especially back then.

[Carol Markowitz]

It was, you know, Ocean Parkway between Church and Katon. I hear you that it's not one of the worst parts of Brooklyn, but many of the listeners listening to this would be afraid on that block.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

So, you know, it was so, you know, I remember, like, the WPIX movie on Saturdays was always like a Charles Bronson movie or something like that. Like, you know, crime was just sort of the theme of my childhood. So I think the combination of just living through that time where there were, you know, 20001500 murders a year in New York City, knowing that my dad was a cop, you know, so to me, he was Batman. Right. And having that experience when I got to college, I think is really kind of the cocktail that sort of set Me on the path that I've been on for the last 10 years. When I got to college, I was introduced to protest culture. I didn't really understand why kids who I regarded to be incredibly fortunate were angry at the world and felt like they had to hold a sign up and stage walkouts. And one of the topics that they were always protesting was the police, the criminal justice system writ large. And there's really one moment that kind of, I can sort of trace my, my conservative thought back to. And, and that was my sophomore year of college. I was in a sociology class and we had a guest speaker. He was an ex con and he was incarcerated under the Rockefeller drug laws in New York and came to give a talk about his experience. And it was really just a diatribe, right? It was like, the NYPD is racist. The criminal justice system is rigged and it's evil and it's terrible. And you know, I just remember looking around, there's like 250 people in a, you know, lecture hall. And I just remember looking around and thinking, seeing all these heads nodding and just. You don't actually believe him, do you? You know, I grew up with guys like that. It's like we all know he's, he's full of it. Right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

No one's buying, but everyone was buying it.

[Carol Markowitz]

They were buying it, right. They weren't just nodding their heads to get the A or whatever they were.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

It was like he was injecting drugs into their veins and giving them an excuse to fall back on if their dreams didn't pan out. And I just couldn't identify with that. But at the same time, and a lot of people don't know this about me, I was not a very good student. I did not end up in college because of my grades. In fact, I didn't even apply to college. I ended up in college because I played baseball. And that was it had no intention of going to college. When I was in high school, it was really, you know, a kind of happy accident that, that I'm doing what I do now. So because I didn't really study very much because I wasn't, you know, a bookish kind of kid, I didn't really have a vocabulary with which to push back.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Years. And that was the first time that I, I felt a genuine sense of embarrassment that I couldn't engage intellectually who were my age. And I felt really insecure about that. And so I remember I went home and I went on Ask Jeeves, which was the search engine of choice.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, The Google of pre Google.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

And I just searched, like, books everyone should read, and, you know, just started researching articles, asking questions about policing. And that's how I discovered City Journal and the Manhattan Institute.

[Carol Markowitz]

Really? Wow.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Yeah. By the time I was, like, 20 years old, I knew what I wanted to do, and then I just had to figure out how to do it. And so I'm a weird guy in that sense that I've, you know, wanted to work for a think tank since about the time I was still a teenager.

[Carol Markowitz]

Wow, that's amazing that you found City Journal. I mean, it's a very important organization, obviously. I love Manhattan Institute, one of my absolute favorites. And I love City Journal. All their stuff is so good. But I, I. And I was a conservative in college. I was a political person. But even I don't think I knew about City Journal. It's not like a giant. You know, I. I read like National Review. I read, like, Weekly Standard at the time, but I. That's really, really impressive. So what is your book about? What. What do you try to get into in. In your book?

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Yeah. Criminal injustice was, you know, it kind of grew out of everything that had been happening in the post Ferguson era. Right. I mean, you know, I've been at the Manhattan Institute since 2015, and that was when, you know, things had really started to take a downturn. You know, the US Saw a homicide spike on a national level that year. We saw another one the following year in 2016. I had just moved back to New York from Chicago, which in 2016 saw a massive homicide spike. The last few weeks in Chicago, I was actually caught in the middle of a shooting while sitting in the car with my wife, then fiance. So, you know, all of this stuff was kind of swirling around in my mind, and that was why I was, you know, writing so passionately throughout those years about this issue. But then 2020 hit, and it was, like, collectively lost its mind on crime. You had people saying, you know, defund the police and actually trying to do it. You had these mass, you know, releases of jail inmates in prison. And I just remember thinking, like, how does anyone expect this to go any other way? And I realized that, you know, books had been written, you know, articles had been written, but it was like, there was a very obvious. It was very obvious to me that we had forgotten our history. Right. That the. The 1990s crime decline, which to me I still regard as sort of the greatest achievement in urban American history.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

How we achieved that was forgotten. People grew uncomfortable with the posture that you needed to take, to keep crime under control. And the reason that they were giving in terms of, you know, why we should dismantle the criminal justice system or defang it or take power away from it all came back to the race issue. And that really threw me for a loop and drove me kind of crazy because it was exactly the very people, the very communities that these, you know, sort of progressive activists said that they were representing that were suffering the brunt of the crime increases, result of their policies.

[Carol Markowitz]

So obvious. Yeah.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

And so I just really wanted to bring that point home before we, you know, got past the tipping point. Although you could argue that we had already reached it by then. You know, unfortunately, books, as you know, don't come out with great speed.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Yeah. So you might finish a book, you know, in one year, but it might take another year and some change before it actually hits shelves, especially back in 2020, because there was all this stuff going on with lumber and paper and, you know.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, yeah, I remember that very well. Our book was delayed also because of the paper shortage. Yeah.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

It was why, like, my book was printed in one country and then shipped to another country to be bound and then shipped. So it was wild, you know, but. But that was really the driving force. I wanted to make the point that decarceration was a bad idea, that de policing was a bad idea. I wanted to attack the assumptions undergirding those bad ideas. And I really wanted to drill home the point that the communities that were most vulnerable to crime in the places that adopted the sort of progressive line on these issues, those were exactly the very communities that people were speaking about through organizations like Black Lives matter and the NAACP and, you know, the progressive prosecutor movement. It was like, no, actually, if you care about these communities, you have to address the one thing that is affecting them more than anyone else. Right. I mean, like, the black homicide rate by 2020 was like 10 times that white homicide rate for men. That's, you know, that's crazy. You would never accept that kind of disparity in any other negative outcome.

[Carol Markowitz]

Absolutely right.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

And so, I mean, just look at Covid. Right? I mean, like, there was the second we realized there was a racial disparity in how Covid affected certain groups of people. Right. We immediately started, you know, creating racial hierarchies for the dispensation of COVID vaccines and drugs. Right. And. And yet, when it comes to the problem of homicide, people lose their nerve. And I think that has to do with, you know, this idea that incarcerating people is bad. That Putting them in handcuffs, even by force is bad. And I think at the root of that is just a misunderstanding of how often those things happen. Right? I mean, you ask American like, yeah, they hear constantly, you know, mass incarceration, mass incarceration. They think that everybod bodies in prison in this country. And the reality is, is that, you know, the typical state prisoner in the US has about a dozen prior arrests and about half a dozen prior convictions. You know, this whole idea that we're denying people second chances and that we just need.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, no, they get second, third, fourth chances in those places.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

You know, it's crazy. You know, and on top of that, not only do they have those insane criminal histories, but the vast majority of them are there for violence, which is another thing that boggles people's mind. They think everybody's there for, you know, half a gram and they're only spending about 16 months behind bars before they're released when, you know, again, people have it in their head that, you know, everyone's doing 10, 20 years. So, you know, you combine that with the misapprehensions about, you know, policing and police use of force, and I just felt like there was a massive gap in public knowledge between, you know, what the public thought they knew in reality. But there was also a lot of passion behind their policy prescriptions and the support for it. And, you know, passion mixed with ignorance is a really cocktail. And so, you know, I don't pretend to be someone who can control the passions of the masses, but, you know, I wrote the book with the hope that I could at least fill some of those knowledge gaps and address some of the ignorance on that issue.

[Carol Markowitz]

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[Carol Markowitz]

So three years later, in 2025, looking back at your book Criminal Injustice, do you feel like you've won some number of battles that you were fighting in that book?

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

I do, I do. I can't tell you how many. I mean, look, I got a bunch of calls and emails and outreach from the people you'd expect, right? Police organizations and prosecutor organizations and all that was great. Republicans in Congress began having me testify on a regular basis. All of that was good and important. But the thing that was most gratifying to me were the emails that I would get from somebody who was not politically aligned, you know, from, you know, the high school teacher who said, hey, you know, I saw this and we've been talking about, you know, BLM and all this stuff in our history class. And I'm going to, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to assign an excerpt from your book because it really moved me and it made me think twice about this. It was, you know, the opportunities to engage with people on the other side more directly. I got to debate people like Chase of Boudin and, you know, go out to Berkeley and debate police abolitionists and, you know, being in spaces where I, I was going to reach audiences that I didn't always get the opportunity to reach. And I felt like that book and the tour and its reception was part and maybe even helped create the kind of tide turn that I think we're seeing now. If you just look at the last election cycle, I mean, it was kind of a 180 on the crime issue compared to 2020.

[Carol Markowitz]

Nobody supported defunding the police. Nobody. They couldn't find anybody who ever supported that crazy idea.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

That's exactly right. And you had Pamela Price, the progressive prosecutor in Oakland was recalled along with the anti police mayor in Oakland, Chantao. You had George Gascon, the radical prosecutor in Los Angeles, lose his reelection bid to Nate Hockman, who ran on a sort of generic tough on crime platform. California passed Proposition 36, rolling back Proposition 47, reinstituting penalties for theft in various drug offenses. You had states around the country, Arizona passed, you know, ballot initiative. One of them would give taxpayers a rebate if the government failed to clear homeless encampments. Colorado passing, you know, a truth in sentencing. I mean, it was like.

[Carol Markowitz]

And the rhetoric difference, I mean, the fact that Gavin Newsom is looking for the person who did this, you know.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Exactly.

[Carol Markowitz]

He can't find who supported these policies. Who was that crazy person?

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Exactly. Yeah, well, I think I feel like everyone just kind of took a pill at the same time. Not a bad trip. That's what it felt like watching from the outside in. But, you know, but I do think that there's definitely been a vibe shift. And I think, I think part of what's created that is that, you know, people like myself, my colleagues at the Manhattan Institute, we've been able to bring a lot more attention to, you know, the problems with the progressive policy prescriptions on crime. I mean, you know, and it's not that hard to do in part because like when you have a really bad criminal offense, it's almost inevitably the case that the person who did it has, you know, 10, 15, 20, 30 prior arrests, highlighting that. And, and you, you know, you make it clear that those aren't one offs, that these are part, that that's part of a systematic problem. You know, regular people will always ask the question, you know, when they see a story about a guy who committed a double homicide and had 30 prior arrests, the first question that any regular person will ask is, why was he out? Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

Why was he on our street? Right.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

And that's a question that they've always asked. The problem was that they thought for a long time that people like that were always locked up. They thought that the guy with the long rap sheet, that that was a one off our work really helped push the idea that no, actually they are the rule, not the exception. And I'm hopeful that it will help, you know, bring us back to the center on this issue and that that vibe shift will last for a good long time.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

[Ryan]

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[Ameca Insurance Representative]

At Ameca Insurance we know it's more.

[Rafael Manguel]

Than just a house. It's your home. The place that's filled with memories.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

The early days of figuring it out to the later years of still figuring.

[Ryan]

It out.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

For the place you've put down roots. Trust Ameca Home Insurance.

[Rafael Manguel]

Ameca Empathy is our best policy.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Ah, come on.

[Ryan]

Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

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[Ryan]

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[Ameca Insurance Representative]

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[Ryan]

So you want to start a business? You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but listen to me when I say you don't. You just need GoDaddy arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, an actor and I like the sound of starting my own business. Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses. But I couldn't do this my own. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you, and even set you up with a social media calendar. How cool is that? Well, listen to this. For a limited time you can get Arrow all access for just a dollar a week for 12 weeks. We're talking all the AI power of GoDaddy arrow plus a domain E commerce store, payments, professional email, a unified inbox. All for less money than I spend on deep tanning lotion while sunbathing off the Amalfi coast. You know what that sounds like?

[Rafael Manguel]

Like a plan.

[Ryan]

Get [e-mail] terms apply.

[Carol Markowitz]

What do you worry about?

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

I worry about my kids, actually, you know, that is.

[Rafael Manguel]

Yeah.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

It took about 2Ns for that answer to pop into my head. When you ask that. It's one thing they don't tell you about being a parent, which is amazing. I love every bit of it, but I worry about my kids more than I thought I would. I didn't realize how much you stress over all the possible outcomes with every activity. It's like, okay, he's got swimming lessons. Like you immediately start thinking, oh my goodness, what if he drowns?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

You know it. So, so yeah, I worry about my kids. That is, that is the thing that consumes me. You know, it's not debilitating, obviously.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

You know, but, but yeah, it's. Whatever decisions I'm making throughout the day, I'm almost always trying to think about how is it going to affect my kids, how is it going to help my kids. Worrying about their safety, worrying about their future and the opportunities that they're going to have and getting them into summer enrichment programs, just making sure that they have a better life than I had. That's the barometer that I keep holding myself to. And that's actually one of the things that's made parenting easier. Right. Because it's like I don't agonize over decisions as much as I might otherwise because it really just comes down to is this better for them than not? You know, and that's usually a pretty easy decision to make. So, so yeah, my kids.

[Carol Markowitz]

What advice would you give your 16 year old self? Like what does Raphael at 16 need to know that he didn't?

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Raphael at 16 needed to know a lot. Raphael at 16 was not on the best path. Like I said, I was not good student, wasn't. Didn't really know what my future was going to be. Sort of rough plan back then was, you know, graduate high school if I could and you know, join the military and then figure out some kind of, you know, blue collar job, become a firefighter or cop or something like that. And you know, there's nothing wrong with that, but I just didn't really feel like I had direction. So I would say it wasn't, I wasn't smart. Right. Like I, I was clearly, yeah, smart, which is part of the problem. Huge ego. And so I think the piece of advice I would give is, is take school more seriously. I, I closed a lot of doors that I could have opened instead, and my life could have gone very differently. I mean, look, things turned out really well, right? I figured it out. Obviously, I'm very happy with. With where I am, but it took me a lot longer to get here, in part because I never developed the habits, the attitudes, the discipline.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's hard when you're smart. That's really. I tell this to my kids all the time because it's easy to skate a lot of the time when you're smart and you don't learn how to work hard. Especially my middle son. I tell him all the time that I know lots of smart people, lots of really smart people who didn't get anywhere in life because they didn't work and they didn't learn how to work. And unless you do that, it doesn't matter how smart you are.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

That's exactly right. And skating was, you know, something I took pride in.

[Carol Markowitz]

Same, same straight B student my whole life with no effort.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

I wish I was a straight B student. I remember failing all four quarters of biology in high school.

[Carol Markowitz]

Wow.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

And the teacher smugly, you know, telling me something along the lines of, you know, I'll see you in summer school. But I knew that if you got an 85 or better on the Regents, that they couldn't send you to summer school.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, you're like, I got you.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

And so I just crammed for two weeks, and I got, like, an 87 or something like that. And finding her the first day of school the next year, and I was like, hey, Howard, summer school. So that was, you know, I just had a bad attitude.

[Carol Markowitz]

Kill my kids.

[Rafael Manguel]

Yeah.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

I would get kicked out of class all the time. I would cut school all the time. I just, you know, I. I didn't take advantage of the opportunities that were. That were out there. And I've always felt guilty about that, in part because my parents work really hard to move us from Brooklyn to Long Island.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

And so, you know, I always felt a little guilty about that.

[Carol Markowitz]

End here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Yeah. This is one of these questions where you're tempted to kind of put on your Internet guru hat. Do it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Put on that Internet Internet guru hat.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

You know, I don't know. I was trying to think about what I would say. You know, there are two things that I always tell people. So I'm going to cop out, and I'm going to give you two instead of one.

[Carol Markowitz]

All right, let's go two.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

One is, you know, I don't think people Realize how much downtime they have that could be more productive. And that's really changed. So you know, your commute home, your gym time, your shower time, throw on a podcast. Like the new media landscape is awesome and there's so much informative stuff out there. There are books that you can listen to, audiobooks. There's so much of your downtime that you could be learning something while doing the thing that you're doing. Whether it's like doing dishes or cleaning the house or you know, going for a walk or a jo back. Like take advantage, double that time up and listen to something educational.

[Carol Markowitz]

That is pretty guru.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

And then the other thing is, is go to the gym. You know, I've had a weird relationship with the gym. I was an athlete in high school and college, but after college there were periods of years where I didn't do anything athletic. And you know, especially during COVID and you know, with the book coming out, there was like a four year period where I just, I, I was completely out of shape and I felt awful all the time and I was constantly stressed out and I forgot how much being in shape can help just, you know, with your ability to deal with stress, with how you feel, with your confidence level. You know, it's like you have an opportunity to do something a few days a week and you'll consistently see progress if you do it. It's just this like little reminder that that work is gonna pay off no matter what. And it's a getaway for me. It's been a really good stress management tool and it has the bonus of keeping you healthy.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I've heard of the gym. I just never quite get there. Maybe I will after this show.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

It's easy to drive past it. It's easy to miss it. I certainly did for a long time.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thank you so much. He's Rafael Manguel. Check out his book Criminal Injustice. Thank you so much, Rafael.

[Ameca Insurance Representative]

Thank you. Really appreciate it.

[Ryan]

Want to feel more creative but don't have the right laptop? Lenovo.com can help. Look through our legendary lineup of AI powered PCs and devices and find the one that fits your passion. Our PCs, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors as well as cutting edge AI tools, allow students to focus, learn and create with ease. That's the power of Linton Lenovo with Intel inside. Plus college students and teachers can get 5% off their order shop now on Lenovo.com the future's waiting and it needs you. So you want to start a business? You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills. But listen to me when I say you don't. You just need GoDaddy arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, an actor and I like the sound of starting my own business. Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses. But I couldn't do this my own. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you, and even set you up with a social media calendar. How cool is that? Well listen to this. For a limited time you can get Arrow all access for just a dollar a week for 12 weeks. We're talking all the AI power of GoDaddy arrow plus a domain E commerce store, payments, professional email, a unified inbox. All for less money than I spend on deep tanning lotion while sunbathing off the Almafi coast. You know what? That sounds like a plan. Get [e-mail] terms apply.

[Rafael Manguel]

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[Ryan]

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[Carol Markowitz]

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