The Karol Markowicz Show: The State of Young Relationships Today with Abigail Shrier

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Carol (Karol) Markowitz
Guest: Abigail Shrier
Date: November 28, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features Carol Markowitz in conversation with journalist and author Abigail Shrier, exploring the decline in young people's romantic relationships and friendships, particularly in America. The discussion delves into cultural, technological, and psychological factors shaping the state of relationships for younger generations, as well as broader societal shifts impacting community and connection. The tone is rational, empathetic, and occasionally humorous, with both Markowitz and Shrier sharing personal anecdotes and offering practical advice.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Changing Landscape of Young Relationships

• Decline in Marriage & Relationships:
  • Markowitz references an article from the Wall Street Journal, pointing out a dramatic rise in single women aged 18-40:
    "The share of women age 18 to 40 who are single... was 51.4% in 2023... up from 41.8% in 2000." [06:30]
  • It’s not just marriage—cohabitation and deep friendships are also in decline.
• Symptom of a Deeper Problem:
  • Markowitz distinguishes between explanations focused on women's career ambitions and those revealing a larger crisis:
    "We're missing the forest for the trees. It's not that women are focused on their jobs, it's that they are focused on their jobs because they can't find a man." [07:40]
• Trends in Dating Culture:
  • New terms like “situationship” complicate the simplicity of past relationship norms.
  • Both men and women express frustration:
    • Women: difficulty finding faithful men, or men who engage meaningfully on dates.
    • Men: perception that women are overly materialistic or expect them to carry all conversations.

2. Abigail Shrier’s Motivations and Methods as an Author

• Choosing Controversial Topics:
  • Shrier explains she writes about what she genuinely wants to understand, not for provocation:
    "I write about what interests me and... where I don't know the answer to the question." [13:06]
  • She values discovering truth over appeasing audiences:
    "I feel personally much safer in a world where I have full information and I know what's going on." [13:35]
• Facing Backlash:
  • Calm, rational approach paradoxically draws ire:
    "If I were more provocative or extreme... I would get a lot less hate and I would be more ignored... I try to craft things in a way that will be effective and well grounded and therefore hard to ignore." [14:52]

3. Shrier’s Personal Journey

• Background in Journalism and Law:
  • Early journalism, then law school due to practical concerns about journalism’s financial insecurity:
    "I thought journalism could be very bleak if that's what you have to do [to get a meal]." [16:48]
  • Never loved practicing law but found it useful in her reporting—especially on complicated issues.
• Living in California Despite Its Issues:
  • Sees the state as a “candy store for a journalist” because it’s ground zero for cultural and policy shifts:
    "There is really no better way to look at how the culture has gone drastically off course... than to be in the state where a lot of those bad ideas and bad policies get started." [18:43]

4. The Root Causes of Relationship Decline

• Prioritization and Misinformation:
  • Young adults put career over relationships, often out of misplaced caution:
    "A lot of them believe that. No, I need to get my profession started first. I can't possibly date someone until I've pursued my career as a paralegal. And it's, it's a paralegal." [20:12]
  • The biological window for relationships, marriage, and children is finite and shouldn’t be postponed lightly.
• Technology and Fearfulness:
  • Social media and phones erode real-life connections; risk aversion is at an all-time high:
    "Interpersonal relationships are the scariest and most risky things you'll ever get involved in, and they're also the most rewarding. But... We've raised this generation to be the most fearful." [21:18]

5. The Decline of Friendship

• Friendships Suffer Too:
  • Markowitz and Shrier agree that it's not just romantic relationships but friendships that are in crisis.
    • Markowitz: "It's not just... romantic connections. They're not even making friends anymore." [26:05]
  • Shrier adds:
    "We look back on our lives — friendships and romantic relationships... are at the top of what gives you meaning and satisfaction in life." [26:35]
• Personal Technology Habits:
  • Markowitz notes her own tendency to retreat into her phone during awkward moments, sharing an honest, relatable observation about modern habits. [27:45]

6. Parenting and Fostering Connection in the Digital Age

• Strategies for Limiting Tech:
  • Shrier sends her kids to a no-phone school and gives her sons Internet-blocked phones ("kosher phones").
    "First of all, let me just acknowledge that it's near impossible to manage the phones and the computers... but sending them to a school with a no-phone policy... has been really wonderful." [28:10]
• Advice for Making Connections:
  • Shrier’s (potentially controversial) main advice: join a religious community.
    "Honestly, the easiest, quickest, most assured way to do this is to join a religious community... real community that is in person, that is meaningful." [29:27]

7. Reflections on Adolescence, Personality, and Gendered Social Dynamics

• Advice to Younger Self:
  • Shrier wishes she’d known her straightforwardness would be an asset:
    "If I could go back, I wish I would have known that actually what was so difficult in some situations... would actually be to my advantage in a career in journalism." [31:34]
  • Both host and guest reflect on always having more male friends, and how that’s viewed with suspicion today (the "pick me girl" phenomenon). [32:14-32:43]
• Truth-telling versus Social Niceties:
  • Shrier jokes:
    "My husband says, he always jokes that I'm the only woman who wants to be told when she looks fat. Because I'll say... do I look fat in this? And I want to know before I leave the house. I don't want to be lied to." [33:05]

8. Influence and Impact of Shrier’s Work

• Shifting Conversations:

  • Shrier describes her books as documents of record, rather than polemics. Legislators cite her work in official settings.
    "I try to create a document that people can take, that's full of information and that can really add to the discourse." [34:24]
  • She notes: podcasts and books complement each other, as reading declines while audio thrives. [35:55]

• On Recognition:

  • Shrier is content to move from topic to topic, even if it means less personal notoriety:
    "I'm not an activist. I don't have a burning passion about one issue... For me, I like being able to move on to the next topic and reveal something else if I can." [36:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Dating:

  • Markowitz: "At 29 I was in a six year relationship with someone who I did not marry. I was certain... that I didn't want to get married and I didn't want to have kids. I started dating my husband the following year when I was 30 and we got married the year after that. It changes so quickly." [04:25–04:50]

• Abigail Shrier’s View on Fearfulness:

  • "We've raised this generation to be the most fearful. And so unfortunately, they're staying away from the ultimate rewards of a loving relationship." [21:18]

• Advice to Young People/Parents:

  • Shrier: "The easiest, quickest, most assured way to [improve your social life] is to join a religious community, join a church, join a synagogue. There is no quicker way to get actual real community." [29:27]

• On Truthfulness and Friendship:

  • Shrier: "The ticket for large groups of girlfriends tends to be small lies and flattery, neither of which I'm terribly good at. But it turns out there's, you know, there's really a place for you no matter your personality." [31:34]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening reflections on the singlehood crisis: [03:06–06:30]
• Markowitz transitions into interview with Schreier: [12:10]
• Abigail Schreier on writing controversial works: [13:06]
• On fear, dating, and the retreat from real relationships: [19:44–21:55]
• Screen time, friendships, and parenting: [27:45–29:23]
• Advice to teens and to parents: [29:23–31:34]
• Role of personality in social connections: [31:34–33:40]
• Impact and legacy of Schreier’s books: [33:40–36:11]

Conclusion

This episode offers a thought-provoking, nuanced look at the decline of relationships among young people, with an emphasis on the role of technology, fear, and shifting priorities. Shrier brings her characteristic clarity to the discussion, balancing cultural critique with personal insights and practical advice, while Markowitz provides context through statistics and empathetic commentary.

Listeners are left with a sense of both concern for the current trajectory and hope that open dialogue and intentional choices—like joining in-person communities—can help restore vital human connections.