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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Truth with Lisa Boothe: AI “Code Red”: China, Big Tech Bias & the Fight for Control of Artificial Intelligence
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- [03:07]
Lisa Booth
the Truth with Lisa Booth where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you today. We're talking about the defining race of our time, America versus China for control of artificial intelligence. We'll talk about why it's so important with Breitbart News social media director Wynton Hall. He is the author of a new book, an explosive book called called Code Red, the Left, the Right, China and the Race to Control AI. He is also a distinguished fellow at the Government Accountability Institute and has authored or collaborated on 27 books, including multiple New York Times bestsellers. We'll dive into all of it. How AI systems are already being programmed with left wing indoctrination, China's alarming advances in technology, the millions of jobs at risk, and how this AI revolution will reshape not only the country, but the world. So stay tuned for Wynton Hall. Well, Wynton hall, it's great to have you on the show, first time having you on and look forward to talking about your new books. Appreciate you making the time.
- [04:14]
Wynton Hall
Glad to be with you, Lisa. Thank you.
- [04:15]
Lisa Booth
So how much the new books, Code Red, the Left, the Right, China and the Race to Control AI. I mean, AI is pretty complex. Did that make it difficult to write the book and just sort of unpacking it all?
- [04:27]
Wynton Hall
It really does. I, I spent over two years deep diving into this world and it is very much a black box technology. What's interesting is that even among AI researchers, they will concede they fully do not understand a lot of how LLMs work in neural networks. But I think what I wanted to do was to make the point that AI is not just a tool, it's really political power. And I think one of the things that people are to increasingly realize is that every single policy issue that touches their daily life, whether it's education, certainly jobs, obviously relationships, faith, and certainly national security, they are all going to increasingly be dramatically affected by AI. But the technology itself is very much complex. But I think the power dynamic is the thing that interested me most. So I always like to say this is a politics book about AI, not an AI book about politics in that regard. And It's, I think, the most important policy shift we're going to see.
- [05:33]
Lisa Booth
You know, how far are we into this AI revolution? I feel like it's, you know, it's too late to put the genie back in the bottle.
- [05:40]
Wynton Hall
You are absolutely right, Lisa. It's moving so fast. Now, the actual term artificial intelligence comes, was come into the, to public consciousness in 1956. So if you're thinking from a purely historical perspective about the actual, you know, lexicon of a. Yes, that has been with us for some time. The real explosion occurred in 2017 with the emergence of transformer technology and of course, then the arrival in November of 2022 of Chachi BT, which really accelerated things. I think what's important is people need to understand you don't really get to opt out of this AI revolution. And the reason is that 99% of Americans are already using AI, even though 64% of us don't realize when we're using AI. And you. So how is that even possible, Wynton? Well, what it means, of course, is that it's baked into the algorithms of every single thing that modern individuals use, whether it's your weather app, whether it's your streaming services, or obviously GPs. So narrow AI is a part of our daily life. So if we're going to use it, I think we have to learn to not only use it well, but we also have to think about the upside, but also the massive landmines. For us as people, as parents, and again, in the political realm, it's. It is that pervasive.
- [07:05]
Lisa Booth
If you were to lay out those landmines, what would they be?
- [07:09]
Wynton Hall
Yeah, well, first of all, I think there's a lot of hype and fear and that can be weaponized in building out political narratives. So let me give you the big one, which of course is all of the rage and you see it every day in the headlines, which is everybody's fears around jobs. And is this really the first time that a technology will destroy more jobs than it creates? And so when you listen to people like Mustafa Suleiman, Microsoft AI CEO, and he just recently said that we're Looking at within 18 months the ability to replace all of the tasks of white collar employees. When you look at somebody like Dario Amadei, the CEO of Anthropic, who says that within the next 12 to 5 year, 12 months to 5 years, 50% of all entry level job replacement for white collar people have to make a choice, you either a believe that's complete hype and they're just trying to raise investor dollars by saying that their technology is going to be labor replacing. And Big B, you can say, oh, there's nothing I can do and it's all over. Or C, you can say, well, it could be a little of both. But either way, that allows for proponents of things like universal basic income for wealth redistribution to scare people into believing that it's inevitable that we're going to have a job apocalypse in the next 12 months to 18 months and therefore build out these political coalitions. So I think the first, first landmine is understanding how to separate hype from reality and then realizing that either way it doesn't matter because it can be politically weaponized. I think the second landmine would certainly be for parents. If you're a parent or a grandparent or you just care about the future and you care about children, you are very much concerned around what we're seeing in two directions. One, with AI chatbots, otherwise known as AI girlfriends, colloquially. And these are chatbots that young people are able to interact with. They may, depending on which service you're using, may not be guardrail safe. They will take the conversation into wildly inappropriate things for minors. And they will also oftentimes involve taking them into very dark conversations, self harm, suicidal ideation, sexualized content and role play. And the second area for parents to really understand the landmine is going to be around plagiarism and academia. And they don't call it ChatGPT, they call it Cheat GPT. And any professor or teacher who's out there bless their hearts trying to battle through this new world of AI and be able to police plagiarism or cheating. It's not just written plagiarism, by the way. That is, that is a huge landmine. And then I think on top of that, which complicates it even more, is the erosion of critical thinking skills. Because any educator will tell you that if you don't let students struggle and actually have that mental friction with how do I do this calculus problem, how do I work through this physics problem, how do I do this writing assignment? Then they don't build that muscle memory and that ability to build cognitively. And so cognitive offloading in AI is a huge area. So those are just some of the early landmines we've seen a lot of
- [10:24]
Lisa Booth
really interesting cases involved in, like ChatGPT. You know, for instance, I saw one the other day that there's a lawsuit because a woman fired stripe GPT, allegedly convinced her to fire her real attorney, then created like all these bogus
- [10:44]
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you
- [10:45]
Lisa Booth
know, in illegitimate motions against her employer. And like it was all phony and you know, but so just like really crazy stuff like that or you know, potentially telling CHAT GBT that you know, they wanted to kill themselves and you know, things like that not being flagged. But you, when we look at some of these, like if you look at things like chat GBT or like Gemini or Grok or what have you, we've seen evidence of bias in some of these cases. So like how much of the information that we're getting back is factual and, or objective?
- [11:21]
Wynton Hall
Oh, it's such an important question, Lisa. So today I actually have a piece of out on fox.com about this. You take Google Gemini for example, and their pro level account, Deep Research and you just ask them which of the 100 senators in the US Senate have violated your hate speech policies. And they only list Republican senators and zero Democrats. And you look at that and you realize, okay, this is, and these are senators that by the way appropriate hundreds of millions of dollars to these companies in the form of, you know, cloud computing contracts and the rest of it. The bias thing is very real. It's opening chapter of Code Red and looking at the hidden hand of AI and woke persuasion. And what is fascinating, this book has 80 pages of endnotes. I'm an, I was a former college instructor so I believe in really doing the grunt work on the research. It's got over 850 endnotes. What was fascinating is the scholarly research in peer reviewed research, even that which skews left does concede LLMs, large language models, otherwise known as chatbots, are absolutely skewed toward a left, left wing view. This is not even a question. In fact, even AI's creators will concede that there is a left leaning political bias to the responses. So you're absolutely right, Lisa. Number one, you have to understand that you are getting a bias response. The question then becomes why is that, how is that? And so forth. And the answer of course is the way that an LLM is trained. And so what you realize is they're, they're taking information from Wikipedia which skews very left. They're taking information from Reddit which skews very left. They're taking information through the co, what's known as the common crawl, which is this very large public data set from the Internet. They're taking information from academia, which we all know, excuse left garbage in, garbage out, as, as the old saying goes. And so you're going to get that. And so that's the first thing you gotta be thinking of the other thing is what you pointed out even before that, which is what are known as hallucinations, which just things that sound confident, confident and accurate, but actually turn out to be complete gibberish or made up or just total misinformation. And so I think the consumer has two layers of filtration. One is what I'm being told even true, that's, that's the hallucination piece. And then the second is through what political lens and slant is this information being filtered to me? And this is really important, particularly for young people who do not already have a fully formed political ideology or worldview. The other thing may just not even have, have a lot of knowledge of history to be able to fact check and say, wait a minute, this is talking about Gerald Ford and it was actually Richard Nixon or whatever factual point that they're bringing up. So it creates this complete new world where you've just completely upended so many of the pillars that have been a part of our understanding of fact and fiction. And that's not even to bring in deep fakes. Images and videos where we all know on our social feeds we look at things all the time. And increasingly people are saying, wait a minute, is that AI or is that actually real? Because that blurring of fantasy reality has become almost hard to detect.
- [14:35]
Lisa Booth
Gotta take a quick commercial break. More with Wyntenhall on the other side.
- [14:40]
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- [15:10]
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- [15:40]
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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is available at public.com disclosures
- [16:41]
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- [17:12]
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- [17:43]
Lisa Booth
you know we saw during COVID where the Biden administration was putting a lot of pressure on Meta and you know some of these big tech companies to censor certain information. How much of that is happening with AI and sort of what concerns do we have surrounding the government sort of influencing what information we're getting back?
- [18:08]
Wynton Hall
Oh, such a great question. So in one of my other many roles I am Social Media Director at Breitbart and so I would look at analytics and have very closely. You mentioned meta and you are absolutely right. During the Biden era you had such incredible blacklisting, demonetization, suppression, algorithmic, you know, diminution. You had all manner of chicanery and you're absolutely right. I mean I think a lot of people, whatever their view of Mark Zuckerberg, the truth is is that the Biden administration really did apply a Lot of the pressure there and they were successful and it worked. I will say that there has been absolutely a lift. So we know for example in social media, political news feeds that during the Biden era met reduced political content. This is their, their statement. They made this very clear. And it was by as much as 60% to completely mute that. Now a lot of that has come back so people have a megaphone that actually has some volume to it. There is far, far less of this game that was played during the Biden era where so called quote unquote fact checking in quote wink nod was going on, which was just another way of suppressing views that the Biden administration and left of center people did not like and punishing, you know, conservative publishers or right of center publishers to be able to amplify the others. However, one thing that is of great concern and this is one of the hidden things that a lot of people don't realize and I actually list it out and I have all the the dollars and information in code red, there is a hidden subsidy that happens with AI training data. So here's how it works. If I am a left of center publication, Sam Altman at OpenAI comes to me for ChatGPT and says we'll give you $20 million for the last 30 years of all your archival material so that we can use it as training data for the next LLM chatbot that we're going to create. So I get a check for you know, 20 million, 30 million, whatever. Now that does two things. One, it's a huge cache infusion to a left leaning publisher. Two, it then bakes in all of my left leaning bias inside of the AI. So you get this self reinforcing loop of bias where you're also monetizing it. Guess who doesn't get those kind of contracts right of center smaller conservative publications. And so you have this real problem that's emerging. So on the one hand the answer to your question is yes, we have seen a return of free speech and certainly on things like X and Grok and all of that with Elon too. But on the the other hand there's this new form of a slight of hand move that is occurring where at these Silicon Valley behemoths who are building the next generation of AI are able to basically funnel money to left leaning organizations and then get a twofer in the form of extra bias.
- [21:09]
Lisa Booth
Well that's concerning. You write about AI is the defining geopolitical race over time. Why do you believe that the competition between the United States and China Over AI is as consequential as the nuclear arms race during the Cold War.
- [21:24]
Wynton Hall
Now that's a great question, Lisa. So a lot of times when we hear this, oh, we gotta beat China and AI, people say, well, that's probably these AI Frontier labs trying to use this, making what their product is seem more important so they can raise capital from investors and so forth, or get big contracts from the Defense Department and so forth. And I'm sure that's absolutely true. Two things can be true at the same time, right? There's no doubt that these are businesses. On the other hand, when you really dive deep, particularly into the national security and military and intel worlds, what they will tell you is this. There's something known as recursive self improvement. Rsi. And what is that? It's real simple. It's the idea that we're going to potentially hit a point when AI can correct itself, improve itself, rewrite its own code and do that all autonomously. Now, when you're hitting rsi, if and when that ever does occur, it has, it's not a fully functioned concept yet. What military experts in intel and defense people will tell you is if and when that were to occur, you would have such technological and military dominance. You would have full spectrum battlefield dominance in things like being able to crush in encryption, cyber hacking, security hacking of weapons systems, hacking of infrastructure, electrical grids, water mains. You would have full spectrum dominance over whatever your enemy, whoever your enemy is. And so whoever reaches recursive self improvement first is going to essentially have full scale operating control over their opponent militarily. Now, are we at RSI yet? No, we're not. Anthropic said recent studies about getting closer to that. But even beyond that, even if that anybody says, well, that's a theater theoretical concept that, you know, that may or may not happen right now with China, what you realize is the economic benefit already that is accrued and we are fighting over in the AI space, 1/3 of the S&P 500 is made up of the Magnificent Seven, which are the seven largest American tech companies. So it is a tent pole and has been a huge growth opportunity for our economy. On the other hand, we know that when China starts leading in this, they can crater us. What is the example of that? When China's Deep Seek AI model model was released R1, they cratered Nvidia, America's Nvidia, $600 billion in a single day. The largest large capital market cap loss in company in American history. So you have the economic warfare side of the race with China. You have the military side of the race with China. And then I think the other thing that you have to realize is that right now the advent of AI warfare has accelerated with our actions in our war in Iran and even with the Maduro raid. And so what are doing there? A lot of people say, well, you know, when I think of AI warfare or autonomous weapons, I think of like a Terminator, you know, laser beams and so forth. Humanoid robots are coming. But that is not actually the real use. The real use is actually not nearly as cinematic, but is actually very consequential. And that is in being able to take vast oceans of intel data, things like intercepted communication, intercepted satellite imagery, facial recognition of known terrorist leaders, and having an AI that can sift and sort what would have taken a team of 300 intel officers months and doing that within days or less by an AI. And that gets us a better target selection. That gets us thankfully a reduction of civilian casualties because we can be more precise with those attacks and take out enemies and terrorists and not innocent people, which, which, which is of huge concern and it allows us to hopefully not have forever wars because the speed with which AI moves gives you such a dominant battlefield advantage that you're able to crush an enemy a lot faster than a protracted war. So it's a hard, it is a fast moving and hard reality that AI warfare is here and it's accelerating. And that's one more reason we want to stay ahead of China.
- [25:42]
Lisa Booth
Quick break. More on AI if you like what you're hearing, please share on social media or send it to your friends and family.
- [25:50]
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- [26:20]
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At Amica Insurance, we know it's not just about where you're going, but who you go with. That's why we work even harder to protect what matters most. And as a mutual insurance company company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amica empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote. Today.
- [26:50]
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Support for the show comes from Public the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite pumpkin possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures there's
- [27:51]
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no championship league for small business owners, but if there was, you'd be at the top of the standing. Because going pro with Lenovo Pro means you've got the winning formation. One on one advice. IT solutions and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors help you stay ahead of the competition. Business goes pro with Lenovo Pro. Sign up for free@lenovo.com Pro Lenovo Lenovo
- [28:22]
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flag football is exploding and IFLAG is leading the way as the Guinness World Record Holder. Iflag hosts premier flag iflag football tournaments nationwide for boys, girls, high school girls and adults. From first time players to elite competitors, iflag delivers top level competition, unforgettable experiences and a community built around the game ready to be part of it. Join the movement, find your tournament and learn more@iflag.org that's iflag.org
- [28:53]
Lisa Booth
you know when you talk about with China and AI. China uses AI in part to spy on its citizens. What concerns do we have about that happening in the United States with AI? Or even you know, when you're inserting and asking questions to Gemini or Perplexity or Grok or ChatGPT or whatever it is, it's like collecting a lot of information about you. Like what kind of concerns do we have that AI is going to be used by governments and the way that China uses it to to spy on us?
- [29:24]
Wynton Hall
It's a real Concern Lisa, I think we, we need to, you know, surveillance capitalism is, is real. The thing that after studying this for over two years when I was doing, you know, code redwood that came away with was these companies, whether they're American or, or international companies, tech companies, they have a voracious appetite for data and there is almost nothing that they do not want to vacuum up. Now in America we have, you know, rules around these things and you know, Xi Jinping and the CCP have a very different mindset. I think there's three things. One, we do not want to live in a CCP style, you know, techno authoritarian surveillance state. The, the CCP uses the ability to scare its citizens as leverage and saying that they claim that they can run a facial recognition of all of their citizenry, which is 1.4 billion people in a matter of seconds. We know that with the Uyghur genocide that facial recognition use to be able to target, find and imprison the, the people that the regime wants to. We also know that obviously the censorship of communication. I mean, one of the most fascinating things is that when you run a Deep seq, which is the Chinese, and I do not recommend you use Deep Seq. And I'll tell you why. Because there are all manner of security issues for your privacy that you want to be careful of. But with Deep Seq, the Chinese AI model, you just ask it basic questions like, you know, tell me about the Tiananmen Square massacre, things that the communist regime does not want to be, you know, out there, and they, and it will shut you down immediately. And there's a whole host of these. In fact, I have a whole list of them inside the book. Now on the American side, we obviously have real data privacy concerns. You know, we know that in consumer privacy data concerns. For example, I'm sure we've all had the experience where we're, you know, having a weekend with the family or friends and, you know, you're watching a game and, and you're saying something about a product you like, and then next week you start getting served banner ads or, or other content that is targeted on that topic that is real. Okay, so the devices that are listening to us.
- [31:31]
Lisa Booth
Oh, it happens all the time.
- [31:33]
Wynton Hall
Yeah, happens all the time. And so, and, and it's, and so, so that kind of violation is, is important, but it does not have the weight, I think, you know, obviously morally or even existentially that you are talking about with a totalitarian regime like the ccp. And I would say, you know, look, we do not want, want to live in a world built on Chinese AI rails, not economically, not militarily, as we already just talked about. But I would also say that Americans should be very vigilant about what kind of data we're giving these chatbots. One of the problems, too, is that you sometimes, for the average person, they just go to an app, you know, store and they download something that looks good. They're not. They don't know that this was derived from which, you know, country of origin and who, the manufacturer and so forth, especially when younger people are just sort of downloading things. And let me give you an example that was really striking. So in the Chinese AI, you know, dominant player, deep seek, they, if you study it, two things. One, they, in their terms of service, say that they even vacuum up your keystroke rhythms on your device. Now, you might go like, who cares how I text my friends? Like the rhythm with which I strike. Experts will tell you that is more particular to you than even your human fingerprint. How fast in which ways you move, where you pause, how the finger pressure, the all of your strike patterns, all of that. So you're able to build out a data profile on someone instantly. This is the same reason with the whole TikTok, which was essentially this CCP surveillance app. And that's why finally bipartisan agreement was this has got to be transferred because we are, we are giving away national security. By the way, many state governments and federal governments and federal agencies ban government employees from using Chinese AI Deepseek. And they. Because it's a security risk. So if, if I'm at the Department of Defense or even if I'm at, you know, Department of Health and Human Services and I'm putting in information into an LLM, I could, could unwittingly be giving access to private information. So these are going to be also the reasons why I, you know, the reason I called it Code Red, obviously an alert, alarm, a siren, but also to give people on the political side of the ball that are right of center a code, a set of principles for the Red Team to think through for traditional American values. But I think that all Americans, regardless of their politics, they really need to understand that this privacy stuff is real.
- [34:14]
Lisa Booth
And then how far away are we? Obviously, you see a lot of these AI videos that are out there. How far away are we from, like, fake AI videos being indistinguishable from real? And. And then how do you determine, and how will the public determine it? Particularly when, you know, you look at elections or politics or maybe even other
- [34:33]
Wynton Hall
countries Such an important question, Lisa. So in the computer world we call it the Turing test, right? Which is this, what, what point do kind of can you fool a human and make them think that you' looking at something real and not machine? The truth is that we're already there with some of the advanced like C Dance, which is also a Chinese video generating model, VO3V03, which is the Google Gemini equivalent flow. Several of these more advanced video generative AI are already beating the scores for human perceptibility. And so. And that's only going to get better. These models are only going to get better and better. I always tell people, remember this, the worst AI you ever used is the one you use today, right? In six months we all. What, what are we on? IPhones version 17. Does anybody remember what iPhone One was like? I mean it's, you know, it's like a dinosaur. So, so this is only going to accelerate. And you see, this is why Hollywood is freaking out, right? And, and they should celebrity enter entertainment and creatives in the entertainment world are freaking out because they realize, wow, it is exactly what you said. It's getting better and better. At first people were kind of thinking it was a joke. Oh, this is so silly. Look at that. It doesn't know how many fingers are on a human hand and so forth. And now the Sea Dance video that went viral just a few weeks ago, that was completely computer AI generated of Brad Pitt in a fight scene with Tom Cruise. It looked like any live action, you know, Hollywood movie. And so I think we're there already for, for many people, people that have a little bit more of a scrutinizing eye or who come from a creative background, maybe they have a little bit better ability to perceive fakes, deep fakes. But think about this. Once we get to a point where visual evidence, video evidence is, no one can know is this real or is it fake. That has even implications for the, for the legal system, right? I mean, entering in a video surveillance footage of a, you know, a police report or of, of some kind of video surveillance and showing a suspect doing something, you start to, you start to get really, really good at these things. And the question becomes, could you raise a reasonable doubt of the authenticity of the province of this thing, you know, providence? So people say, well, what's the solution? Well, yes, there is watermarking in AI. There is something called Synth id, which is a Google effort to watermark their videos. And so you can go to their repository and either drag and drop an image or a video or whatever. Piece of content and it will scan and it will tell you if this was used. Their video generator was used to make it. On meta platforms they do toggle switch at the bottom and they do have automatically turning on that their, their AI senses that something used AI to be created. But there's so many easy workarounds, right? I mean, you know, in this, in the case of some of these tools, it's like, yeah, it's recognizing if you use their product, but not some other competitor's product or an open source variant or others. Non state actors, otherwise known as terrorists, are already using deepfakes for recruitment. So if I really want to fire up people and really work those emotions and get rage and hate, I create a very realistic and completely bogus event of some atrocity happening. And then I say, look at this, look at those evil Americans or look at those X, Y, Z. And you know, how can you stand by? You got to join the jihad. So, so these things are really moving fast and they have enormous political and social and just safety impact. And we've got to, we've got to
- [38:26]
Lisa Booth
be coached up then before we go touch a little bit further on just the economic impact and job losses that we're probably going to see in the country as a result.
- [38:37]
Wynton Hall
Yeah, this is the real big debate. So people who are, you know, free market capitalists, I would count myself among those, will often have said, look, I've been hearing this for my whole life. The robots are coming for our jobs. It never happens. Yes, technology destroys jobs, but it also creates jobs. And the free market's going to work it out. It always does. It never has failed. And that's true historically, right? I mean, history has shown that new technologies are very disruptive. We saw the Industrial revolution, but then in the end, over time, right, they create more jobs than they destroy. What the AI architects are telling us of, why they are saying that we're looking at these, you know, job quake or job apocalypse doom kind of realities is their, their rejoinder is, yes, that's true, Wynton and Lisa. But, but what is different this time is that we're not talking about moving atoms, physical labor, blue collar work, which is what the industrial revolution was about, automating. This is about cognitive work, white collar work. And once, what is AI? It is artificial intelligence, otherwise known as cognitive work, synthetic intelligence, you know, machine created cognitive work, the things that white collar cognitive workers do. And once you scale, scale the ladder of that intelligence, you're going to be able to replace lawyers and accountants and people that get paid for their expertise. I think that they are absolutely right that there is going to be massive disruption. I don't think that that is completely just a statement that they are worried about from an economic and societal perspective. I do think there are a lot of politically motivated people who see this as a great reset opportunity economically to move away from capitalist structures and what they say is a post lab or post capitalist economy, so otherwise known as socialism or wealth redistribution. They advocate for a universal basic income UBI as a, as a, as a, as a supplement so that when you have all this AI job displacement, have no fear, your government check is here or your check in the mail is here. And you even see some progressives who have said, hey look, the dirty truth is that Covid was just a dry run for what's coming. With ubi, we got used to getting mailbox money and now that people are sort of used to that. This is going to be a way for us to remake the economic system. So it is going to be very disruptive. And that's, I mean that's why I call it a code red moment. I guess there are other ways to, to term it, but I think the most important thing is to know these arguments and where people are going to come from and to really try to future proof yourself against that. Particularly for kids, I think that's going to be a big thing. The thing I would just leave you with is this for parents. Parents I believe that the future is not about teaching our children how to find jobs. I believe the future is about teaching our kids how to create jobs, otherwise known as entrepreneurship. And so if they have a skill set like that and a passion and those tools, they will be able to create a job to deal with the headwinds of disruption.
- [41:44]
Lisa Booth
Interesting, very interesting stuff. Wynton hall, author of the new new book Code Red, the Left, the Right, China and Race to Control AI out today I think. Wynton, thanks so much for coming on the show. Appreciate you.
- [41:55]
Wynton Hall
Great to be with you Lisa, thank you for having me.
- [41:58]
Lisa Booth
That was Wyn Hall. Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. Also thank John Cassio for putting the show together. Until next time.
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