The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Behind the Curtain: The War on Truth in D.C. with Senator Rand Paul

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show: Episode Summary

Podcast Information

• Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics, and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.
• Episode: The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Behind the Curtain: The War on Truth in D.C. with Senator Rand Paul
• Release Date: July 24, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, hosted by Lisa Booth, Senator Rand Paul joins as a guest to delve into pressing issues surrounding government integrity, intelligence manipulation, and security failures. The conversation is both hard-hitting and insightful, offering listeners a comprehensive look into the current political landscape.

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Tulsi Gabbard's Report & Allegations of Intelligence Manipulation

Key Discussion Points:

• Tulsi Gabbard's Report: Senator Rand Paul discusses Tulsi Gabbard's explosive report accusing the Obama administration and top intelligence officials of manipulating intelligence regarding Russia in the 2016 election.
• Allegations of Treason: The report suggests that these actions amount to treason, a claim Rand Paul examines critically.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul at [02:43]:

  "It's not a big stretch to believe that they would change or alter intelligence estimates to try to further their cause."

• Rand Paul at [04:27]:

  "I think John Brennan is a basically dishonest person, a person who also abused the power of his office."

Insights & Analysis: Rand Paul expresses skepticism towards the integrity of the Obama administration's intelligence manipulation, suggesting that altering intelligence to sway political outcomes is plausible. He points fingers at key figures like John Brennan, labeling him as dishonest and abusing his power. Paul underscores the importance of accountability, stating that individuals like Brennan should no longer hold influential positions due to the dangers they pose.

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Anthony Fauci's Conduct and Potential Legal Consequences

Key Discussion Points:

• Lying to Congress: Rand Paul calls for the Department of Justice to charge Dr. Anthony Fauci with lying to Congress.
• Biden's Pardon: The discussion extends to whether President Biden's pardon of Fauci would be legally upheld in court.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul at [07:49]:

  "But the fact that the pardon was signed by an auto pen and that the college intern that was running the auto pen says he got the permission from Jill Biden's chief of staff, doesn't sound like anybody running the auto pen really had a direct line to the president."

Insights & Analysis: Paul highlights discrepancies in Fauci's statements regarding funding gain-of-function research, presenting evidence that contradicts Fauci's claims of never funding such research in China. He emphasizes the significance of these lies, arguing that they warrant legal action. Additionally, Paul casts doubt on the legitimacy of Biden's pardon, suggesting procedural irregularities that could render the pardon invalid. He maintains that only a court can ultimately decide the validity of the pardon.

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Security Failures in Butler, Pennsylvania

Key Discussion Points:

• Butler, Pennsylvania Incident: Rand Paul elaborates on his committee's report investigating the security lapses that nearly led to an assassination attempt on President Trump.
• Secret Service Negligence: The report accuses the Secret Service of systemic failures, including poor communication and lack of accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul at [11:53]:

  "What stood out most was that in the months leading up to the rally in Butler, the Trump campaign and the Trump Secret Service repeatedly requested for additional security. They were denied over and over again."

• Rand Paul at [13:52]:

  "I think the punishments were inadequate. And I think there's still a possibility that some of the people involved in Butler could be in charge of another president or another presidential campaign security."

Insights & Analysis: Senator Paul reveals critical shortcomings in the Secret Service’s response during the Butler incident. Despite multiple requests for enhanced security measures, including counter snipers, these pleas were consistently denied. The lack of clear leadership and decisiveness during the crisis is highlighted as a major factor that endangered President Trump’s safety. Paul expresses concern over the minimal disciplinary actions taken, fearing that the individuals responsible may still hold influential positions, thereby posing future risks.

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Intentional Security Lapses and Government Hypocrisy

Key Discussion Points:

• Possible Intentional Lapses: The conversation touches on whether Democrats, including figures like Joe Biden and Bennie Thompson, intentionally undermined security measures.
• Hypocrisy and Public Perception: Paul discusses how perceived government hypocrisy—using the law for personal vendettas—resonates with voters and influences public trust.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul at [14:23]:

  "We do know that it was reported that it was denied several times. And to get this information from the Secret Service was like, you know, pulling teeth."

• Rand Paul at [09:32]:

  "I think what resonates with voters is hypocrisy and things that seem to be unfair or when the government uses the law against somebody for personal reasons."

Insights & Analysis: Paul explores the notion that security failures may not have been purely accidental but potentially intentional, aimed at diminishing President Trump's safety. He connects this to a broader theme of government hypocrisy, where legal actions are perceived as targeted vendettas rather than impartial enforcement. This perception fuels public anger and distrust, emphasizing the need for transparent and accountable government practices.

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Public Reaction and Voter Sentiment

Key Discussion Points:

• Voter Concerns: The impact of government dishonesty and perceived injustices on voter behavior.
• High-Profile Cases: References to the Epstein case and other scandals highlight public frustration with how justice is administered.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul at [09:41]:

  "People are mad about that. Part of the election was decided by people mad at the Biden administration and Democrats using government to go after an individual likewise."

Insights & Analysis: Paul asserts that voters are increasingly disillusioned by what they perceive as selective justice and government overreach. High-profile cases, such as the Epstein scandal, exacerbate these sentiments, reinforcing the belief that the wealthy and connected receive preferential treatment. This undermines trust in governmental institutions and motivates voters to support candidates who advocate for fairness and transparency.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Senator Rand Paul provides a critical examination of government integrity, intelligence manipulation, and security protocols. Through incisive analysis and compelling evidence, Paul underscores the need for substantial reforms within intelligence agencies and the Secret Service. He highlights the broader implications of these issues on public trust and voter behavior, advocating for greater oversight and accountability to restore faith in governmental institutions.

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Notable Takeaways:

• Intelligence Manipulation: Allegations against the Obama administration suggest potential treasonous activities through the alteration of intelligence data.
• Accountability: Calls for legal actions against figures like Anthony Fauci emphasize the importance of truthfulness in public service.
• Security Protocols: Failures within the Secret Service during critical incidents underline the necessity for structural and leadership reforms.
• Public Trust: Perceived government hypocrisy and selective justice significantly impact voter sentiment and trust in institutions.

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This comprehensive discussion between Lisa Booth and Senator Rand Paul offers listeners a deep dive into the ongoing battles over truth and integrity within Washington D.C., shedding light on issues that have far-reaching consequences for American democracy.

Transcript

[Lisa Booth]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Lisa Booth]

Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today. I'm joined by Senator Rand Paul, the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee. We've got a lot to get into. We're gonna have a hard hitting conversation about the failures and the corruption inside of our government. We'll dive into Tulsi Gabbard's explosive new report accusing the Obama administration and top intel officials of manipulating intelligence on Russia. Does it amount to treason? That's what she says. Senator Rand Paul weighs in on that. We'll also talk about his call for the Department of Justice to charge Anthony Fauci for lying to Congress and whether Biden's pardon would hold up in court. Plus, his Homeland Security Committee produced a report investigating the security failures surrounding Butler, Pennsylvania when President Trump was almost assassinated. So what stood out to him the most in that report? We'll ask him. Stay tuned for Senator Rand Paul. Chairman Rand Paul, it's great to have you on the show, sir. Obviously, no shortage of things to discuss these days. A lot happening in the news. I wanted to start and get your take on some of the information that the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard has been releasing, particularly this report highlighting, well, what we already know about the manipulation of the intelligence by the Obama administration in regards to Russia in 2016. She said that it amounts to treason. What do you make of what we have seen so far and is it treason?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, you know, some of this was reported even back when it happened. I remember the initial news stories coming out saying that the Obama administration had information and they were spreading it throughout the new, throughout the different facets of government to try to make sure it wasn't lost. Now, the implication at the time was that it was actually true information, but it's not a big stretch to believe that they would change or alter intelligence estimates to try to further their cause. You know, Molly Hemingway wrote a book, rigged, and in it, she talked about how many Democrats came out in early 2017 and said the election was stolen, that the election was rigged, and that it had been stolen by the Russians. And it was all part of this, this big scam to get Russia, you know, to get their presidential pick. And so it's pretty easy for me to believe that they did, did do this and that they would use intelligence. Look, I think John Brennan is a basically dishonest person, a person who also abused the power of his office. I think he also, in all likelihood, used foreign intelligence assets to spy on the Trump campaign. You know, when you had those random meetings at bars in England where Trump official campaign officials were sort, you know, information was being gleaned by them by, like, an Australian ambassador, I don't think any of that was random. I think that was directed by John Brennan. I think, you know, because it's illegal for the CIA to do this on Americans, I think he employed or encouraged or somehow got foreign intelligence to do his dirty work for him. But it was an abuse of power. And I think John Brennan should never, ever be close to the reins of power again. He should have no access to class up, find information. I think he's a danger.

[Lisa Booth]

Well, if memory serves me correct, then he spy on members of Congress.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, there were, there were times during some of the January six where they look like members of the members of Congress's phones were, were tapped and looked into. So I don't put anything beyond him. And I actually remember sitting in the Oval Office in the first Trump administration and giving the President the advice that he should take their sort of security clearances from him and Clapper and all these other clowns. And at the moment, Trump said, you're right, and he called somebody in and said, take away their security clearance. And that's the way it happened in the first administration.

[Lisa Booth]

It was in 2014, Senator Dianne Feinstein accused John Brennan, CIA, of spying on her and spying on Congress and getting away with it when they were looking into waterboarding. That's what it was.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Yep, that was true. That was absolutely true.

[Lisa Booth]

So, so to your point, just to underscore your point, it like, it's not out of the realm of possibility for him to have done what you just laid out, considering his past. Do you think there'll be any consequences here? Because it seems like the intelligence community, they were saying one thing, obviously prior to the election, prior to this meeting that took place on December 9, 2016, when all these people convened at Obama's White House, including Brennan Clapper, Susan Rice, you know, the whole. The whole nine yards, Loretta Lyn of them to discuss Russia. And then it seemed like the narrative after that really changed. Do you think there'll be any consequences for any of this?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, you know, as someone who believes that the intelligence agencies have too much power, I think one of the consequences should be reform of these agencies and that we should strip away power and have more oversight. But, you know, I thought that's what would happen. You know, when the abuses of Donald Trump first came out, there was a movement. There's always been libertarians like myself who wanted to reform these, these agencies. But there was a stronger movement, and we almost got there, like on fisa. The FISA system is data that's collected without a warrant, supposedly for spies and threats to the national security. But it is part of the information that's being used for many other nefarious reasons other than national security. And we got to a tie vote, and it was Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, who killed reform of fisa. So that was really disappointing, and I hope we could bring it back up again. But the establishment, you know, the establishment Republicans who love surveillance and don't seem to have much concern for the individual killed FISA reform. It's the same with the CIA. We ought to reform them. But they're protected by conservatives some of these conservatives. Who are these national security conservatives who really don't care about individual liberty and care more about surveillance.

[Lisa Booth]

You've also called on the Department of Justice to charge Anthony Fauci with lying to Congress, also to test the President Biden's pardon. Fauci, obviously there's a lot of questions surrounding the auto pen controversy. Did he authorize these pardons? You know, was he aware of them or not? We had Chairman Comer on the show last week talking about the issue, but what did he lie about? And, you know, do you think the pardon of Fauci will hold up in court?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, you know, I asked him directly if he funded gain of function research in China, and he adamantly and repeatedly and heatedly said that he never, ever funded gain of function research in China. But we have documents from the company. It was called Ecohealth alliance. They got NIH money and then they secondarily granted it to Wuhan. We have a thank you note from EcoHealth going back to NIH. After their money had been turned back on, it was paused for a period of time because of gain of function research. And when it was turned back on, EcoHealth wrote a nice letter back to Anthony Fauci and said thank you for turning back on our gain of function research funding. So we have that, but we also have other acting heads of the NIH who have admitted that the research was indeed gain of function. And we've been looking through documents now at a committee to see if we can find evidence of them admitting it as well. But the bottom line is he lied. It's a fairly simple case. You can't always get convictions on this. But they did it several times with Trump administration and Trump friends who they went after for lying to Congress. So I think it's an easy one to go after. If the pardon had been signed by Biden, I would say we'd be wasting our time because I don't think you can penetrate through the pardon. But the fact that the pardon was signed by an auto pen and that the, I don't know, college intern that was running the auto pen says he got the permission from Jill Biden's chief of staff, doesn't sound like anybody running the auto pen really had a direct line to the president. So I think there is some doubt whether it's valid and only a court could decide.

[Lisa Booth]

Do you think voters still care about, you know, as. As we look into the previous administration and Joe Biden's mental decline? Do you think that resonates with voters?

[Senator Rand Paul]

I'm not sure. I do think what resonates with voters is hypocrisy and things that seem to be unfair or when the government uses the law against somebody for personal reasons. So I think all of the court cases where against Donald Trump, where they changed the statute of limitations in the court. The one prosecuting him was a prosecutor, Iran on a campaign pledge to get Donald Trump individually as an individual. And the fact that they strung together misdemeanors to make him a felony, people were mad about that. Part of the election was decided by people mad at the Biden administration and Democrats using government to go after an individual likewise. I think it's why people are upset and want more information about the Epstein thing. Woman goes to jail for 20 years. This other guy, Epstein, was probably going to go to jail for 20 years. If they're running a sex ring, there would. You would think there'd have to be customers. You know, if there are no customers, how do you call it, some grand conspiracy if it's just her and Epstein? Everybody has always implied that this was a ring, this was sex trafficking for more than one person. And so people understandably look at it and they hear all these names of super wealthy, connected people, and they're like, well, gosh, did they get off because they were rich? And I think that's. It resonates. Even though that was like, who knows, some of that's 10, 20 years ago, it still resonates in the news. So I think people do dislike unfairness and they dislike dishonesty. And so I think the Anthony Fauci thing and the pardon thing will resonate for some time. We'll see. We'll see. But I think it's worth the challenge.

[Lisa Booth]

You released a extensive report as chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee about everything that went wrong last year in Butler, Pennsylvania, when President Trump was almost assassinated. You accused the Secret Service of inexcusable negligence, communication breakdown, systemic weaknesses, and limited accountability. In preparing the report and your investigation, I guess what stood out to you the most in all of that?

[Senator Rand Paul]

What stood out most was that in the months leading up to the rally in Butler, the Trump campaign and the Trump Secret Service repeatedly requested for additional security. They repeatedly requested for counter snipers, the people on the roof that would, you know, take out some kind of threat. And they were denied over and over again. What shocked me most about that day was that nobody was in charge. No Secret Service agent would say they were in charge. And probably what shocked me the most was that this, the shooter with a large backpack and a range finder, was deemed to be suspicious at least 45 minutes in advance. And yet no Secret Service person had the wherewithal to take the president from the stage. And even when they couldn't find him, with about three minutes left, people were shouting, man on a roof. They still didn't remove the president from the stage. At some point, it's man on a roof with a gun. And I think they still have a few seconds left, and still no one gives the order to remove him from the stage. When we were completing our report in the last year, we didn't want to issue it until we know who had been punished and how much. Now, we agreed not to put their names in there, but we wanted somebody to have gotten punishment for. For bad behavior here. We wanted to make sure those people were not in charge again because we think they they showed enough incompetence that they would put someone in danger. The Secret Service refused and refused and refused to give us this information until we finally subpoenaed it. Then they issued two week suspensions to a couple of people after we subpoenaed the information. So really, I think the punishments were inadequate. And I think there's still a possibility that some of the people involved in Butler could be in charge of another president or another presidential campaign security. And I think they showed by their behavior that they're not capable of that job. So I really think they should not be in that position.

[Lisa Booth]

Again, I hate to ask this, but given all the security failures and the breakdowns that you just laid out and that you laid out in your report, and then you look at things like Joe Biden leading up to this, saying Trump should be putting in a bullseye, or you look at Democrats on Capitol Hill, including the ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee, Bennie Thompson, trying to strip, you know, then Donald Trump, obviously, now President Trump, of his security detail. You know, it begs the question, were these security lapses intentional?

[Senator Rand Paul]

You know, we, we saw the accusations of that. We've heard them, we've tried to look for evidence, but, you know, intention is in the, the mind of the one making the decisions that we found nothing in writing to support that. We do know that it was report that it was denied several times. And to get this information from the Secret Service was like, you know, pulling teeth. They didn't want to give us any information. So almost everything we got was sort of under duress. As far as, you know, the denial of security requests by the Trump campaign and the Trump Secret Service, that was not willingly given. That took months and months and months to get that information. And so that makes one wonder about the motivations. I definitely believe in the aftermath, there was a circling the wagons mentality to try to obscure their, their culpability in, you know, the mistakes and failures that almost led to the death of Donald Trump and, and did frankly lead to the death of one of his supporters.

[Lisa Booth]

Senator Rand Paul, chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. You're always great. Appreciate your candidness and taking the time to be with us for the show. Thank you, sir.

[Senator Rand Paul]

You're welcome.

[Lisa Booth]

That was Senator Rand Paul. Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. Also want to thank my producer, John Cassio, for putting the show together. Until next time, this is an I Heart podcast.