The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Borders, Safety, and Politics: Jonathan Fahey on Trump vs. Biden’s Immigration Policies

Summary

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The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Borders, Safety, and Politics

Guest: Jonathan Fahey (Former Acting ICE Director, Trump Administration)
Date: September 9, 2025
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – iHeartPodcasts
Host: Lisa Boothe

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Episode Overview

Main Theme:
Lisa Boothe sits down with Jonathan Fahey, former Acting ICE Director, to dig deep into the current landscape of U.S. immigration enforcement under President Trump versus President Biden. They explore the challenges of enforcing immigration law in sanctuary cities, the impacts of policy changes, dangers faced by ICE agents, the political climate surrounding immigration, the role of drug cartels, and the administration's approach to fentanyl and the drug crisis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Crackdown on Sanctuary Cities & ICE Enforcement

Timestamps: [03:40]–[08:56]

• Trump’s New Enforcement Focus:
  Trump’s administration is targeting sanctuary cities like Chicago and Massachusetts. Fahey lauds this move, saying these cities "are sanctuaries for criminals" that shield convicted or arrested individuals from being deported ([05:49]).

• Strategic Impact:
  Fahey predicts these highly committed sanctuary cities will resist change, but others may begin to cooperate with ICE due to limited resources and legal liabilities. “There's so many other sanctuary cities that will probably start getting in line and cooperating to some greater degree with ICE…because their politicians may not be as committed” ([05:49]).

• Practical Challenges for ICE:
  Sanctuary cities drain ICE resources, complicate operations, and increase danger both for the agents and public.

  • In cooperative jurisdictions, ICE arrests criminals safely in jails.
  • When released into the community, agents must hunt down dangerous individuals—posing higher risks and consuming more resources ([08:56]).
  • Efforts to protect “law-abiding illegal aliens” inadvertently capture more non-criminals when ICE is forced into community sweeps.

Notable Quote:

“These sanctuary cities, they, they are sanctuaries for criminals. What they do is shield criminals, meaning people are convicted, arrested in state court from being turned over to ICE and deported.”
—Jonathan Fahey [05:49]

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2. The Biden Policy Landscape & Its Aftermath

Timestamps: [12:48]–[16:07]

• Explosive Border Crossings & Policy Shift:
  Fahey argues that the Biden administration “let in probably 10 million new illegal aliens,” with minimal vetting, creating “an enormous burden on ICE and on us as citizens” ([13:17]).

• Deliberate Inaction?
  Fahey asserts the open border is a politically-driven, deliberate tactic for Democratic gains:

  “They did nothing to stop it. … This was, in my view, deliberate because they think it was beneficial to Democrats politically.” ([13:17])

• Consequences:
  He points out taxpayers shoulder costs for increased schooling and healthcare, while the Democrats “go apoplectic when people want to remove them.”

• Constitutional Duty:
  Fahey defends Trump's approach as fulfilling a constitutional mandate to enforce immigration laws enacted by Congress. Critics, he says, “are really complaining about the wrong people.”

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3. Rising Risks for ICE Agents

Timestamps: [20:15]–[24:31]

• Escalating Violence:
  ICE agents face unprecedented challenges: a “tenfold increase in assaults…a thousand percent” ([21:12]).

• Anti-Law-Enforcement Climate:
  Lisa and Fahey connect modern hostility toward ICE to earlier anti-police rhetoric after incidents like Michael Brown. Fahey cites “doxxing” as a new, deeply personal threat, endangering agents' families—not just themselves.

Notable Quote:

"When you have politicians and activists essentially encouraging people to harm them... we're asking them to put their little kids at risk and their husbands or wives at risk. And that's almost like a new low. That's hard to believe we're there."
—Jonathan Fahey [21:12]

• Lack of Political Support:
  Aside from a few outliers, Democrats are not defending ICE or law enforcement. The term “Gestapo” has become a “standard Democrat talking point,” Fahey laments, referencing comments made by politicians like Tim Walz ([21:12]).

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4. Media Narratives & Political Motivation

Timestamps: [24:31]–[27:29]

• Media Obfuscation:
  Both point out how media and Democratic politicians often hide the immigration status of criminals (“Minnesota man” instead of “illegal immigrant”), and are reluctant to admit to or justify deportations.

• Benefits for Illegal Immigrants:
  Fahey notes how illegal immigrants often receive perks such as free phones and hotel vouchers, sometimes even “treated better than United States citizens.”

• Underlying Motive:
  He says the true Democratic agenda is mass amnesty:

  “They want them to become citizens and…will get, you know, 2/3 of them as Dem voters.” ([25:27])

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5. Trump’s Evolving Strategy: Terrorist Cartel Designations & Drug War

Timestamps: [27:29]–[36:08]

• Shift in Drug Cartel Policy:
  Trump is now designating some drug cartels as “foreign terrorist organizations”—a significant shift from treating them as mere criminal groups ([27:29]).

• Alien Enemies Act:
  The administration is using the Alien Enemies Act for more efficient deportations and adapting rapidly to legal challenges, Fahey notes approvingly ([28:36]).

• Impact & Deterrence:
  Fahey highlights that tougher tactics and rhetoric are already driving results:

  “...the messaging has been so strong and that's why we've had, you know, what's the number, 1.6 million people voluntarily left.” ([28:36])

Notable Quote:

“The Biden administration...frankly surrendered our southern border to the drug cartels. If we want to be honest about it, they had more control down there than we did.”
—Jonathan Fahey [28:36]

• Predicted Outcomes:
  He predicts early 2026 overdose deaths will drop, attributing it to the administration’s campaign against cartels and border tightening ([31:57]).

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6. Fentanyl, Public Health, and Trump’s Personal Perspective

Timestamps: [36:08]–[38:49]

• Personal Motivations:
  Trump’s commitment to fighting drugs and fentanyl may be rooted in personal experience—his brother’s struggle with substance abuse ([36:34]).

• Comprehensive Approach:
  While tough on traffickers, Fahey notes Trump’s “sensitivity” to those suffering from addiction and willingness to consider “creative ways to help them.”

• Stark Statistical Contrast:
  Under Biden: Roughly 101,000 overdose deaths/year;
  Under Trump’s first term: 75,000 overdose deaths/year.
  Fahey is confident these numbers will improve dramatically under Trump’s policies ([36:45]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sanctuary Cities:
  “Sanctuary cities...are sanctuaries for criminals. What they do is shield criminals…from being turned over to ICE and deported.”
  —Jonathan Fahey [05:49]

• ICE Agent Dangers:
  “It’s a tenfold increase in assaults...and you're asking agents to put their families at risk through doxxing and intimidation.”
  —Jonathan Fahey [21:12]

• On Media & Political Spin:
  “They basically want illegal aliens treated better than United States citizens...It's so astonishing.”
  —Jonathan Fahey [25:27]

• On Trump’s Border Strategy:
  “The Biden administration...surrendered our southern border to the drug cartels. They had more control down there than we did.”
  —Jonathan Fahey [28:36]

• On Overdose Deaths:
  “The average was 101,000 overdose deaths per year during the Biden administration...under the Trump's first administration, the number was roughly 75,000 per year.”
  —Jonathan Fahey [36:45]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:40] Lisa introduces Jonathan Fahey and outlines the main topics
• [05:49] Fahey explains why sanctuary cities shield criminals
• [08:56] Mechanics and challenges for ICE in sanctuary vs. cooperative cities
• [13:17] Fahey criticizes the Biden administration’s “deliberate” open border
• [21:12] Discussion on increasing risks, political rhetoric targeting ICE
• [25:27] On broader political motivations and unwillingness to deport
• [28:36] Trump’s new approach: designating cartels as terrorists
• [36:34] Trump’s personal connection to the crisis and the administration’s multifaceted approach
• [36:45] Overdose deaths under different administrations and hopeful projections

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Concluding Thoughts

• Boothe and Fahey agree: Dangerous illegal immigration is enabled by political gamesmanship and lack of accountability at the top—hurting communities and law enforcement agents alike.
• Optimism expressed: Fahey is confident new enforcement efforts, strategic messaging, and Trump’s approach to cartels will deliver improved results for border security and overdose deaths.
• Call-to-action: Lisa Booth thanks Fahey and encourages listeners to share the episode.

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Listeners come away with a thorough analysis of how U.S. immigration enforcement has changed under two very different presidential administrations, a clear sense of the practical and political challenges involved, and a robust debate on the best strategies to protect American citizens.

Transcript

[Lisa Booth]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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Ugh.

[Jonathan Fahey]

Come on.

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[Lisa Booth]

Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you today. We're talking about immigration enforcement as the Trump administration targets sanctuary cities across the country, including cities like Chicago. My next guest is Jonathan Fahey. You've probably seen him on Fox News. He is the former acting ICE director for President Trump. He also served in his Department of Homeland Security and worked on the White House drug policy as a general counsel for President Trump. He's also a seasoned prosecutor. So he's a guy that's got a lot of expertise on all of these core issues that we're going to be discussing today. So we're going to dive in to the crackdown. Also, a lot of these legal challenges that President Trump has faced and how hard is it to be an ICE agent today especially, you know, Jonathan worked during the first administration. But think about how challenging it's gotta be today after Biden led in millions of illegal aliens, cartel members, terrorists. I mean, talk about how hard that's gotta be. So we've got a lot to dig into and I promise you we're gonna unpack all of it with Jonathan Fahey. Well, Jonathan, it's great to have you on. I've interviewed you when I filled in on Fox and Friends, but I haven't had you on the podcast yet. So I appreciate you making the time and it's great to have you on.

[Jonathan Fahey]

Yeah, great to be here and thanks for having me.

[Lisa Booth]

And there are no shortage of topics to discuss around, you know, ICE and Immigration and Department of Homeland Security. So we've got a lot to cover. I want to start just by these enforcement operations in, like, Massachusetts and Chicago, and President Trump going into some of these blue sanctuary city areas. Also, Tom Homan has signaled that, look, there's gonna be a wider federal crackdown coming up across the country. What do you think we'll see and sort of. What's your initial reaction to all of this?

[Jonathan Fahey]

I think it's great what they're doing with the sanctuary cities, particularly Chicago and Massachuset. A couple of reasons. One, you know, as you know, and probably everyone that listens knows, these sanctuary cities, you know, they, they are sanctuaries for criminals. What they do is shield criminals, meaning people are convicted, arrested in state court from being turned over to ICE and deported. They try, they always claim, meaning the Democrats that support them claim they're doing something else, but that's actually what they're doing. Everything else about them is utterly meaningless. But I think it'll be effective. One, because these places are shielding criminals, leaving them out in the. So ICE will be able to go out, arrest these people and get them deported, which is good for everyone. But the second thing that's really beneficial about it, you'll have these places like Chicago and Massachusetts, which the politicians there actually elevate themselves by continuing to do, you know, be sanctuary cities and shield people and fight ICE and fight Trump. And that's probably not going to change. But there's so many other of these sanctuary cities that probably will start getting in line and cooperating to some greater degree with ice, because one, they don't know the resources to fight in court and all these things. And two, their politicians may not be as committed to other things, like Pritzker, you know, he wants to. We all know he was trying to. You know, he's vying to be the Democratic nominee for president, and he has to show at every chance that he's anti ice. But these other jurisdictions may decide it's in their interest to cooperate, at least to some degree with ice. So I think it will have a enormous impact not only on the places where they're going into, but also other places for the deterrent value.

[Lisa Booth]

Well, that's an interesting point, too, because we saw, you know, obviously he's not able to do what he did in D.C. elsewhere in the country, primarily just because under the Home Rule act, it gives him under emergency authorization, gives him control over the D.C. metropolitan Police. Also he directly controls the D.C. national Guard. So he's got a little bit more leeway there in D.C. and then Congress obviously controls Washington, D.C. under the Constitution. But we saw there was The. And what we're seeing is the D.C. mayor, Muriel Bowser, is actually now on board. And, you know, during the first term, she was sort of an antagonist and kind of like went after Trump and, you know, try to kind of like, do what we're seeing some of these other mayors do. And then now she's like, no, this is good for my city, because crimes down, lives are saved. So will be interesting, to your point, if we see any of these other mayors kind of like, get on board with the idea of, okay, this is actually like saving lives and good for my city. But, you know, that's to be seen. How difficult do these sanctuary cities make it for ICE to do their job? Like, kind of walk us through just sort of the challenges that these sanctuary cities create for our ICE agents.

[Jonathan Fahey]

They create an enormous challenge to do their job. And they also expend enormous causes, ICE to spend enormous resources. And they put the ICE agents in greater danger and the community greater danger. And I'll go through it sort of one at a time, but what they do, like a typical. A place that cooperates with ice. And a lot of them, a lot of these jurisdictions cooperate under what's called the 287 program, which they actually have some people within their jail, within their sheriff's department, cooperating with ICE and processing illegal aliens to be deported. But places that cooperate with ice, if an illegal alien gets arrested, say, just hypothetically, if it was Chicago and they get. They get arrested in Chicago, well, ICE will then be notified. They'll put a detainer on them, and they will not, meaning the criminal will not be released. If Chicago did cooperate, of course, they would not be released out in the public, and they would, through the judicial process, whatever their charge was. And if they, you know, get convicted, acquitted, work out a plea, however it works, at the end of that and at the end of their sentence, they will then be turned over to ICE, meaning the sheriff's office will call ICE and say, we're about to release Mr. Smith on this charge. And they'll. They'll basically. ICE will be able to come within a certain time period, pick them up from the jail, and then put them through the deportation proceedings. So by doing that, the defendant or the illegal alien is arrested in a jail, which is very safe for the ICE agents. It also doesn't take a lot of resources. You could send one or two agents to go pick. Pick the guy up, bring him to ICE custody so they're not in danger. The resources are minimal, and the community's Safer because alternatively, if they get released out into the public when the places don't cooperate, then ICE then has to go out, find that criminal. That takes time. They have to do an arrest plan to arrest them. That takes time and resources. They usually have to use multiple officers to do so and they may encounter sort of somebody that's dangerous. Remember, these people are already in jail for a crime, so when they're out in the community, they're also likely to be dangerous. So in those cases, ICE would spend lots of resources finding them lots of resources to arrest them, put themselves in danger, and also put members of the community at danger. So all of those things, the resources in terms of money is exponential, but in terms of risks of lives is far greater. And the irony is which these sanctuary cities people, they always talk about, oh, we don't want the law abiding illegal aliens, which is kind of a contradiction in terms, but we don't want them getting wrapped up and them getting removed if they're not doing anything else illegal. While they're more likely, those particular people are far more likely to get arrested because if they're with the alien ICE is targeting, ICE has a responsibility to not let them go if they're here illegally. So they have to detain and remove them as well, because that's their job. So it's so much more expensive, so much more dangerous and puts these communities at greater risk by having more criminals out in their communities victimizing, ironically, the communities these Democrats act like they're fighting for, which in fact, we know they're not fighting for them at all. They're just fighting for votes and other things that they think is beneficial for them. So it is so resource intensive. And when you don't have a sanctuary city, we could remove, meaning, you know, our country could remove the most serious criminals so rapidly and we would get, we would all be safer, all better off in so many ways.

[Lisa Booth]

Well, and the challenge is too. I mean, when you were acting ICE director, it was under President Trump's first term. I mean, things have gotten so much worse since then with four years under Joe Biden just letting millions of illegal immigrants into the United States. You know, criminals, gang members, terrorists, you know, the rest of it. How challenging is it to be the ICE director today after four years of open borders.

[Jonathan Fahey]

Yeah, it's so much harder if you think about, because at minimum, the Biden administration let in probably 10 million new illegal aliens. And again, like you said, we don't even know who they are. Right. We know there's probably within the group, they're criminals, terrorists, other types of bad things, but we really don't even know because there's no way to really track that. And it just shows how unconscionable what the Biden administration did by letting these people in. And I say let them in. This was, in my view, deliberate because they think it was beneficial to Democrats politically because they did nothing to stop it. And you look at the way the Biden administration always talked about illegal aliens, they always had to use euphemisms calling them non citizens, which is really interesting. They're so careful describing illegal aliens, but they can freely call law enforcement officers Nazis and things like that. But what the Biden administration did, they did. There was a complete dereliction in their duty. They didn't try to deport anyone, even by their own terms. They had memos about what the criteria was for deporting people and sort of a short summary of it. You had to be convicted of an aggravated felony to even enter the world of consideration, to be deported. So, meaning, like, nobody was being deported. But what that did was, okay, we brought in 10 more million people at least, to be probably, you know, minimum, probably 20 million people that are already here illegally. So it puts this enormous burden on ICE and on us as citizens because we, you know, we get the benefit of paying for increased taxes, for school, for health care, all of these things on top of it all. And the Democrats, as we know, just brought them in for political purposes. And we knew back then that this was the game that the Democrats would play is like they bring them in all illegally and then act. They go apoplectic when people want to remove them, which seems inherently reasonable. And what I think gets lost in all of this, when people are complaining about Trump complaining about ice, Trump is the one doing his job. He was not just what he was elected to do, but he's required under the Constitution to enforce the laws passed by Congress, and those are these immigration laws. So when people demonize Trump, demonize these ICE agents, they're really complaining. If they're being authentic and being honest, they're really complaining about the wrong people. If they want these laws changed, these Democrats should go to Congress and say, we want open borders and mass amnesty. But of course, they don't have the. The political courage to do that, and they know it's a loser. So they. They use all of these ploys, all of these games, all of this, you know, enormous amount of cynicism to. To get what their way is, which is mass amnesty. What they want is mass amnesty for all the illegals that are here.

[Lisa Booth]

Got to take a quick break. Stay right there.

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[Jonathan Fahey]

Ugh. Come on. Why is this taking so long?

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[Jonathan Fahey]

Whoa, this thing moves.

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[Lisa Booth]

How dangerous is it to be an ICE agent today? Because, you know, we've seen assaults increase more than 1,000%. You've got, you know, a lot of these Democrat officials calling them the Gestapo, like really just putting like it reminds me of what we've, you know, I feel like it kind of all started under Obama with Michael Brown and the whole hands up, don't shoot lie. And then he sort of put a target on the back of police officers. And then we saw Black Lives matter in like 2014 and then now it kind of feels like the next iteration of that where somehow law enforcement, you know, they're the villains and the victims are, you know, the heroes are the, the villains and then the, you know, victims are somehow the villains. You know. Now it seems like the next iteration is like ICE is having a target on their back. Like how dangerous is it to be an ICE agent? I know a lot of them are being docs, like kind of. What are you hearing from some of these ICE agents?

[Jonathan Fahey]

It's substantially more dangerous and like you said, it's a Tenfold increase in assaults, you know, a thousand percent. And you know, you brough point because I think it's a great political point. The Democratic Party has really made a turn and I think over 10 years ago they are decidedly anti law enforcement. And you talked about Michael, you know, the Michael Brown hounds don't shoot. Even if that after that was proven to be false by everyone, including Eric Holder, the Democrats, Hillary Clinton was still having Michael Brown's family come to events and still promoting this false narrative. But yeah, it really carried over to the BLM and we saw all of us suffer because of that, because of the increased crime that resulted from that. But now it is the ICE agents and it's almost like a worse world because of things like doxy. Not that it's brand new, but it seems to be more prevalent now. And you think these agents and you know, I talk to people ICE all the time and I talk to law enforcement and former law enforcement all the time. They're enthusiastic about their job and they're not going to be deterred. But what's really, you know, they're already willing to take the risk dealing with the criminals. Right? They have to encounter bad people and they're, they tend take that risk and they know it's there. But when you have politicians and activists essentially encouraging people to harm them, you know, they're, you know, they all these things take off their mat, you know, tell them to take the mask off so you can, so they could later be docs. And you know, it does seem to be there's a line that really hadn't been crossed, I think, at least in my view, until recently. Because when you're talking about doxing someone, you're talking about their family at this point putting their family at risk, you know, and law enforcement, you know, officers have always been willing to put them themselves at risk. But now we're asking them to put their little kids at risk and their husbands or wives at risk. And that's almost like a new low. That's hard to believe. We're there and it's really hard to believe that the Democratic politicians, and it hasn't been that long ago that Democrats used to stand arm in arm with police officers. And none of them that I'm aware of have stood up to some of these comments that people have made by other politicians. But like you said, the Gestapo. And remember one of the Gestapo commenters was Tim Walz at a graduation ceremony. He's the commencement speaker. So something that was a prepared remarks probably by staff. So basically Calling ICE agents Gestapo is really just sort of the way Democrats refer to them now. It's not just sort of a one off, a slip of the tongue or something like that. This is really almost like a standard Democrat talking point. And it's shameful. And other than maybe like a John Fetterman, I cannot think of another sort of national known Democrat that has stood up for law enforcement, stood up for ICE agents. And again, they're doing their job, which is to, you know, enforce the laws passed by Congress. So you think people in Congress should have a responsibility to stand up for their laws. And if they want different ones, they're the ones, you know, they can change it. But of course they want to play this game, which is we're afraid to stand up and say open borders publicly, but we're doing everything we can to have an open border and to have mass amnesty. See.

[Lisa Booth]

Well, the thing that I don't understand too is like, like, even if you look at the two marijuana farms that were busted, I think there was like, you know, 360 illegal immigrants who were arrested, but there were 14 children who were working in the fields and one of the youngsters was 14 years old and a child sex predator was among the illegal immigrants who were arrested. So you would think that, like, that would be a good thing. You know, you think that would be something we could all support or like even Trump locating. You know, I think it's something like 22,638 unaccompanied children have been located. They've arrested 400 sponsors for various reasons. 27 minors have been found dead either by murder, suicide, drug overdose. We know that a lot of these children are being human trafficked. Like you would think that, like, that could be something, you know, we had all support, but yet, you know, here we are.

[Jonathan Fahey]

Yeah, it's pretty remarkable if you think about it. But if you really think about all these stories in the news, how many deportations did the Democrats support at all? It seems like anyone that's being deported, they always have a reason to be against that deportation. And also just in the, you know, the mainstream media, I guess if we call it, you know, they always, they, you know, they're always these efforts to obfuscate somebody's illegal status. You know, they always say, you know, Maryland, they, you know, Marilyn man's the obvious example, but it's very common. Minnesota, Houston, man, a lot of people joke about it, but they always hide it. They'll never say that, you know that because they, they don't want to do anything, in my view, to discourage people from coming here illegally or to do anything to make the people here illegally, you know, leave. And if you think about, and I'd love to see it, you know, but they'll never ask it like on CNN or anything. Ask one of these Democratic politicians, not only that, like, who do you want deported among all the people here? What's your criteria for deportation? But the other thing that would be interesting for all the people here illegally, what benefit that American citizens currently get? Would you deprive these illegal aliens? And you would get just hemming and hawing or you would get the. Of course they don't get benefits. Leave, you know, next question. But they don't even. They basically want illegal aliens treated better than United States citizens. You know, as I'm sure you don't get a government phone. I don't get a government phone other than when I work for the government. But all the illegal aliens coming across during Biden got free phones. They get hotel vouchers, they get to go to midtown Manhattan and places like that. It's so astonishing. But you're right, they won't say anything that this is a good thing to get rid of people, because they don't want to get rid of people. And they look at it like, you know, from the census numbers, counting illegal aliens benefits, Democrats. But we all know the real game here is they want them to become citizens and they think they will get, you know, 2/3 of them as Dem voters.

[Lisa Booth]

Yeah. I mean, like, the bottom line is they're putting American lives at risk for vot and political capital, which is, you know, like, it's just, it's pretty sick and twisted. And also, like, Americans didn't want it because they rejected it last election. You know, it's interesting because President Trump, this time in the his second administration, he's like, sort of focusing differently on the drug cartels and some of these gangs. You know, like he designated drug cartels or some of these drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations. I think it's for the first time time that I believe they were previously looked at as like criminal enterprises and now like terrorists. So that's different. And then he's also used things like the. What is it the alien enemies act as well. So it's, it's clear he's fighting this war differently. Where he's viewing it as an invasion, where he's viewing it as a war. Talk about that shift. And like, how does that sort of change the game? And, and do you agree with that? Is this a war? Kind of walk us through that a.

[Jonathan Fahey]

Little bit on the sort of the shift against the drug cartels. I think it is a major shift in. I mean, obviously it's a major shift, but it. But it really just shows such a different approach than the Biden administration, which frankly surrendered our southern border to the drug cartels. If we want to be honest about it, they had more control down there than we did. But it really shows these drug cartels, hey, we're done. We're done with having 100,000Americans die every year of overdose from the drugs that are coming across. We're taking the fight to you. And I think what's really helpful about this, which is there are a lot of these countries where they have a government, but there's so much influence or control by these drug cartels that the government can't stand up to them or they could get killed or other types of things. This empowers these countries to stand up to the cartels because they know Donald Trump will have their back and will go hard on these cartels. And, and we've already seen in Venezuela, they've even said, we're going to start doing stuff about the cartels. Whether or not it's true or not, but is another question. But it's very interesting. So I think, one, it's taken the fight to them. Two, I think it will get more countries on board fighting back on the cartels, which is what you need because, you know, if all of these countries are controlled by the cartels, meaning Latin America, South America, it's a lot harder to fight it than if basically we're all on the same page. So I think all of it's appropriate. I think the one thing I think that's different with the second administration, they had a lot of time to think it's almost like you get two first administrations. But the benefit, you know, like, it's almost like in life, you always look back and like, oh, if I knew all these things that when I was younger, I could have done all these things, they almost have that benefit. The benefit of hindsight, but the ability to use it in a productive way. So a lot of these things I think were being thought of beforehand, you know, but the Alien Enemies Act, I think, was a brilliant use of a way to deport a lot of people efficiently. And it seems like every time something gets shut down by a court, the Trump administration has another plan to back that up. But. But all of it is the best part of everything they've done. In my view is the messaging has been so strong and that's why we've had, you know, what's the number, 1.6 million people voluntarily left. But I think the messaging on the cartels is, is super strong there. You're not going to want to be a member of the cartel or you're not going to look at things as easy money when your risk of getting, you know, getting arrested might get, your risk of getting killed is higher. So all of these things are going to have an impact. It's not going to eliminate everything or everything won't be immediately great. But if you look at these drug overdose numbers, which we should find out at the end of probably early 2026, my guess is they're going to be substantially lower. And a lot of that is going to be attributed to what the Trump administration is doing on the cartels and also doing on the border. Because remember, under Biden, border agents sadly were basically processing migrants. I heard stories of people basically agents having to babysit migrants as opposed to stopping drugs from coming through and other things. So all of these things are great, but the messaging I think has been outstanding on all of these issues.

[Lisa Booth]

We've got to take a quick commercial break. If you like what you're hearing from Jonathan Fahey, please share with your friends and family.

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[Jonathan Fahey]

Ah come on.

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[Lisa Booth]

Well, and I know that you previously served as the general counsel for the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy. You know, President Trump really does seem like very committed to stopping fentanyl from coming across the border from, you know, trying to save lives when it comes to, you know, these cartels and just bringing drugs across the border that could potentially kill American citizens.

[Jonathan Fahey]

He's been great on this issue. And I think if you look back, and I don't know if it's, you know, part of, you know, his, his brother having substance abuse issues without.

[Lisa Booth]

That's what I was kind of thinking, too, like a personal anecdotal.

[Jonathan Fahey]

Know, he is, he is very tuned into this issue, like, very sensitive to this issue. So he's, it's interesting the way he views it because, yeah, tough on the cartels, but he's not insensitive to people that have issues. And we all have somebody, you know, in a close friend or family member that all gone through these issues. So he has, he, he really does have a great perspective on it because he's never drank or done drugs, but he has, you know, his brother, and I'm sure he knows other people in his circle that have had these issues. So he was really tuned into it in the first administration and is tuned into it now on both the enforcement level. But also, hey, what's the way to help the people here that are, you know, maybe addicted or having other types of issues? How can we help them? What are, what are different ways? What are creative ways to help them? So, yeah, I do think his perspective on it is great. And it's another thing with the Biden administration. You know, I know, you know, everyone talks about Biden was basically asleep at the switch, but his administration, and it seemed like they were never even talking about overdose deaths. I mean, I'm sure occasionally they were, but it never seemed to be a high priority on the treatment end or the enforcement end. And you look at the Biden administration, I think the average was 101,000 overdose deaths per year during the Biden administration, which is a staggering, if you think about 400,000 people. And under the Trump's first administration, the number was roughly 75,000 per year, so up substantially just from Biden to Trump. But it's going to go down next year at least. My prediction is, but they're, you know, part of solving any problem is focusing time, attention resources on it is a lot of times have to battle anything you do. It's like, hey, if I spend more time doing this, things will generally get better. So I think all of these things, you know, we will see. But my prediction is next year these numbers on the drug overdoses and other metrics are going to be very favorable in terms of for the American people, which is a good thing for all of us.

[Lisa Booth]

Yeah, I think they're doing a great job and as we pointed out in this conversation, they're dealing with a lot, you know, like activist judges, an influx of, you know, dangerous illegal aliens. Like it's, you know, Democrats panning at target raids like there's an onslaught coming at them. And you know, I think they're doing a great job. John, Jonathan Fahey, really appreciate you making the time today. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us. We really appreciate it.

[Jonathan Fahey]

Thank you so much. Have a great day.

[Lisa Booth]

That was Jonathan Fahey, former acting ICE director. Appreciate him making the time for the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. I also want to thank John Castio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time.

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[Jonathan Fahey]

Ah come on.

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[Jonathan Fahey]

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[Lisa Booth]

This is an iHeart podcast.