← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Buck Sexton on Iran, Regime Change & Manufacturing Delusion
00:21:50
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- [00:00]
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- [01:37]
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- [02:41]
Lisa Booth
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today. On the show we've got my friend Buck Sexton. He is the co host of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. He's also a former CIA analyst and the author of a New York Times best selling book, Manufacturing Delusion. We're going to break down the Iran conflict. What's it really about? What follows the bombing? What is an exit strategy look like? We'll also talk about how President Trump laid out last year in Saudi Arabia, how he sees the future of the Middle East. Commerce, not chaos. Is that an achievable goal? We're also going to talk about the parallels between what we're seeing now in Iran with sort of the Jihadist regime, this brainwashing going on. With his new book Manufacturing Delusion, we'll talk about some of these tactics of totalitarian regimes, whether it be Stalin, Mao. Dig into his book what you need to know about it. Also, we'll talk to him about why it's a New York Times bestseller. Stay tuned for my friend Buck Sexton.
- [03:47]
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- [04:18]
Public Investing Advertiser
support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. Public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures tired
- [05:19]
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- [06:19]
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- [06:50]
Lisa Booth
well Buck Sexton, it's great to have you on this show, my friend. Also, we'll get to your birthplace. Congratulations and New York Times Bestseller, so that's awesome.
- [06:58]
Buck Sexton
Thank you. Manufacturing Delusion Number four New York Times Bestseller. So I got to be kind of happy with that and I hope all of your fantastic audience goes and gets a copy of Manufacturing Delusion. Because I got to tell you Lisa, the biggest compliment that I've gotten is wow, it's much better than I thought it would be. I said, okay, I'll take it.
- [07:17]
Lisa Booth
Well, also make the New York Times bestselling list as a conservative is not an easy task, so thank you.
- [07:24]
Buck Sexton
I actually sold more books than the number three, but it was John Meacham and they just decided that he's John Meacham, so he gets to go ahead of me. But it was total Nepo nonsense, if you will.
- [07:34]
Lisa Booth
Well, you made it, so that's, thank you, Honor, but we'll get to that in a second. And also parallels between what's going on with Iran right now and your book. From what you've seen so far with Operation Epic, what do you think this war is really about?
- [07:48]
Buck Sexton
It's about a lot of things. You know, Lisa, I come from a background, I know you know this, but for, for everyone who's joining us, joining the CIA's Iraq office after the enormous debacle of weapons of mass destruction assessment by the CIA, by that very office. I wasn't there when that happened, to be clear. But a couple years later I joined that office of the CIA. And it was at a time when the Iraq war was going terribly and we recognized that we had a full blown insurgency and we were in for, we had kicked the hornet's nest essentially, and we were in for a really tough battle to try to stabilize things. So those were, those were lessons learned for the whole country, for the millions who served in uniform and obviously many who never came home or were grievously wounded. We had a very painful lesson as a nation in Iraq. But one of the lessons from all this is these things are complicated. And I think that people right now need to understand there's many different pieces. There's a, clearly, there's an interest for the Israeli government and the Israeli, the Israeli national security in what's going on in Iran. That's why they're involved in the strike. There's an interest for the Iranian people in achieving freedom. There's an interest for all of our Sunni Arab allies and not having the greatest state sponsor of terror right next door and, or funding terrorist groups in their Midst. There's a U.S. national Security Interest because we don't want Iran to not only have nukes, but people have to understand Iran with nukes is a massive proliferation threat as well. Who gets nukes after Iran, if they get them right? And then, of course, the reality of China buying 90% of Iranian oil and what that does to the geopolitical realities we face with China as a competitor. You know, Lisa, I just, I, I try to avoid the, the simple or the straightforward answer because one thing I know from these kind of conflicts is the simple answer is always, is always incomplete. It may be right, but it's incomplete.
- [09:46]
Lisa Booth
Well, that's the thing. It's like, what would an exit even look like from Iran? Because historically there's not really evidence to point to where like bombing campaigns alone produce regime change. Typically there's got to be some sort of on the ground effort.
- [10:02]
Buck Sexton
Usually there's an on the ground element. Yeah, what you're pointing to, Lisa, for example, the Northern alliance in Afghanistan was our on the ground partners and we unleashed an incredible aerial assault on the Taliban after 9, 11. But the ground fighting was done by the Northern alliance and we knew they were in place, we knew they were capable and we essentially were their air force. So they had the best air force by a factor of 10 or 20 in the world, which is a really big battlefield help. Especially when you're dealing with an adversary that has effectively no air force and really no anti air capability to speak of. Same thing when we were dealing with the, it was actually a NATO mission which I think people forget now or really a European led mission in Libya with, with the ouster of Gaddafi under the Obama administration that was we were the air force but we didn't really have a ground force that was reliable or trustworthy in any meaningful sense. And so that we turned Libya into Somalia because of all the warring factions on the ground and led to Benghazi as everybody knows and the disaster that happened there. So in this case I am not aware of now, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I am not aware, aware of a clear ground force that we can work with in, in Iran. I think the hope is that one will coalesce. And by the way, I want to be very clear, some people may be Lisa guffawing when they're like yeah, one's just going to come out. I'm not saying it's going to happen. I'm saying I believe the Trump administration is hoping to be able to chip away, well, more like sling with a sledgehammer but to really degrade the Iranian state's capability and then have some emergent faction that says okay, okay, we're kicking out all the mullahs, we're renouncing terror. You know, you need a general or 10 to come forward who have some control in the security forces and say we'll basically be your partners on the ground here. That to me is the single biggest variable in this whole equation because everybody knew the Northern, I mean Lisa, it should be noted that the head of the Northern Alliance, Ahmed Massoud Massoud is what he was known as Massoud Shah Massoud was assassinated I believe the day before nine. I mean they knew they had to take him out in the Northern alliance because he was Such a capable military ally for the United States. So they took him out before they hit us. I'm not aware of a Massoud, like, figure in Iran, and that's a huge challenge for us.
- [12:39]
Lisa Booth
But how does the fact that, you know, I mean, you look at these, the Iranian regime, I mean, they're jihadist, right? And so they're martyrs, and they're okay with being martyrs. Like, that's their culture. And so how does that shape, I mean, because, you know, most people, like, if you see your colleagues getting taken out left and right, you're probably, like, not really going to want to raise your hand for the job, you know, like. But so, so how does that shape, you know, sort of that, what you just mentioned, like, the hope and the desire that maybe some of these commanders or, you know, more reasonable minds step forward and can coalesce sort of a new regime or a new governance. But, like, how does that jihadist, like, want to be martyrs and okay with being martyrs, maybe impact that or prevent that?
- [13:26]
Buck Sexton
It's. It's a critical question. And again, I. There's no simple answer. I mean, I think what you're asking is something that the planners in the Pentagon, the people that are in charge, Trump himself in the White House, that are making these kinds of decisions, have to grapple with, because we are dealing with a lot of known unknowns to borrow from Rumsfeld, as well as a lot of unknown unknowns in all of this. And I think when you're looking at the leadership, you're talking about jihadism. Yes, there's an ideological hard line across the top of the Iranian government. There's also their version of the Nazi brown shirts, if you will, the street thugs of the besieged. The besieged are like the paramilitary arm of the Islamic Revolution of Iran.
- [14:13]
Lisa Booth
Street thugs.
- [14:15]
Buck Sexton
The street thugs. I mean, they're the ones that go out there. You know, they'll arm them up if they have to, but they'll go out there and they'll, you know, they'll. Exactly. They'll.
- [14:22]
Lisa Booth
They'll.
- [14:22]
Buck Sexton
They'll beat the protesters with. With bats and they'll, you know, they'll mess people up and do terrible things to people's female family members that. I mean, this is. This is who they are, right? They're. They're evil thug. So the thing about regimes like Iran, and we saw this in Syria as well, is they tend to have a tremendous amount of durability because their entire existence hinges on the ability to use force to stay in power. It's like their singular obsession, the One thing that the regime really cares about is staying in power because they have no legitimacy if people aren't afraid of them and they don't have all the guns. So that means that they can handle a lot of internal repression, because that's what they do. That's what they excel at. They can handle a lot of leadership losses because they've prepared for people to take over. I mean, you think about something like Syria, sure, eventually the regime fell, eventually. But there were many attempts over decades to get rid of the Assad regime. And I think now he's like playing video games in a tower in Moscow or something. I mean, he fled to Moscow. The reality of the Syrian regime was that they, at I think in 2012, 2013, there were suicide bombers who were getting near them in their inner circle. I mean, they were very close to being taken out and then they managed to hold on for the better part of another of a decade. Right. So these things can be very unpredictable with how long these people are able to stay in power. Even when they've lost the ability to project power externally, they can often maintain a lot of authority internally through force, through violence. And you're asking about the jihadist side of it. It's really complicated because you have a jihadist leadership layer on top of a massive security apparatus, on top of a country of 90 million people, with it's multi ethnic, it's multilingual, it's. You've got a like 15, I think 15 to 20% are Kurds, you've got Azeris, you've got Turkmen, you've got Persians. I mean, you've got all these different groups and factions within. And so how do you cobble, how do you keep. This is what we didn't really think about in Iraq. And I'm just going to say this. The huge and really unforgivable mistake of Iraq was that for ideological reasons, the US Government and the Coalition Provisional Authority decided we have to eliminate all traces of the Ba'ath party, which is effectively Saddam ism. We have to get rid of every, you know, if you were like a low level traffic cop member of the BAATH Party, you can't work in the new government. Well, that was completely insane because all the people with any training, any government connection and any sense of keeping order became our enemies overnight. And that was how we got a huge insurgency and massive problems. So I think that Trump realizes I certainly know Pete Hegseth, who served in Iraq and is a friend of yours and a friend of mine. I know he knows that lesson, I really hope that it is able to endure, though, because the enemy gets a vote in all of this. And there will be moments, I think, where it's really tempting to not just use the air power we have, but to want to tip the scales even more. And that means, you know, boots on the ground. And that's what everyone, I think, in this country is so concerned about.
- [17:48]
Lisa Booth
Well, and then also, I think one thing we're seeing with all of this, and then we'll. We'll shift your book. Your book in a moment is, you know, President Trump has really taken sort of an unconventional approach to the Middle East. Like, Saudi Arabia was his first trip, foreign trip in 2017. 2020.
- [18:04]
Buck Sexton
2020.
- [18:05]
Lisa Booth
That was different than, you know, past presidents. You've got the Abraham Accords. Like, he's really brought in, like, these Gulf states into the fold. He's not told some of these monarchies, like, how to do their job right. So it's like he's just taken totally. And then now we're sort of saying with the Gulf Cooperation Council, like, put out this joint statement against Iran. Right. Like, so he's really sort of, like, built a coalition differently than past presidents have been able to do in the Middle east, which I think kind of helps with all this. But before we shift to your book, real quick and, you know, looking back at your experience at the CIA, like, tactically, what we've seen with the Maduro capture and then even just Iran, like, it really felt for four years under Joe Biden that we were just like this pathetic wheat nation. And now we're seeing with, like, the military and the tactical and the intelligence, like, it's badass. All right, so, like, yeah, touch on that. Just like, tactically, what you've seen, based on your experience with the CIA. And then we'll get to your book
- [19:03]
Buck Sexton
before we go, I really believe that Trump's focus, or I should say Trump's mantra of you can just do stuff is an incredible revelation in foreign policy and intelligence circles. You can actually just do the amazing thing. With the United States capabilities, you can do the things that you want to do. You just have to have the resolve, and you have to be willing to take those risks politically. And I can point to a whole range of operations. I mean, you look at. And now I'll call some of these. These are really in. In most. Well, in all but one case, they're either Israeli or joint American, Israeli operations. But the pager operation against Hezbollah, to essentially decapitate Hezbollah leadership by infiltrating their supply chain is one of the most incredible intelligence operations of all time. And then you pile on top of that the US and Israel striking Iran's nuclear facilities and dramatically setting them back and degrading those capabilities and bringing in that bunker, not losing a single plane, defeating all of the Russian, Chinese, all the tech that the Iranians were able to buy with their oil money. We defeated all of that, didn't lose a single plane. Then you add on top of that the Maduro capture operation where we deployed and Trump spoke about this, so it's known now, a never before seen or heard sonic weapon to help incapacitate the bodyguards around Maduro. He had dozens of Cuban trained bodyguards and to pull off that operation without a single casualty. And then this operation now of taking out along with Israel the entirety really it seems, of the Iranian leadership after we had already hit their nuclear facilities, after we had these are tactical successes and I think have strategic implications that are truly just way beyond what anybody outside of the planning circles in the Pentagon, the White House would have thought were possible. And it's giving a renewed sense of confidence. It turns out being the most powerful, most capable country in the history of the planet has some advantages and Trump is willing to use them.
- [21:15]
Lisa Booth
Got to take a quick break. More with Buck Sexton on the other side.
- [21:20]
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- [21:51]
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- [22:52]
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- [23:52]
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- [24:23]
Lisa Booth
in your work on Jihadist indoctrination and what you've written about how sort of these movements kind of construct these moral binaries with oppressor versus victim narratives to try to mobilize support. Well, we saw with the Islamic revolution in Iran in 1979 that these Islamists worked with the communists together. We're sort of seeing that in our country now as well. Why do they align and sort of walk us through that a little bit?
- [24:52]
Buck Sexton
Sure. It's the most basic and I do get into this in Manufacturing Delusion, which is the book that I certainly hope your audience will go check and get a copy of. Help Me Stay Up High on that New York Times bestseller list. There's a lot of research, a lot of history. You'll learn a lot of cool stuff in the book. And part of it is what Lisa's talking about, which is these factions on the left ideologically, how do they recruit people, how do they indoctrinate people? But then also, why is it that they're willing to work together even though they can have very different ends themselves for the. For what they want to see in a state, in a country? And that's because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I mean, it's an old adage that is very applicable to what I would call these anti civilizational elements. And in manufacturing delusion, one of the things that I try to grapple with is you have to see that the reason, the reason that jihadists go through a similar process in how they convince people to blow themselves up there are. They want different things, obviously. In fact, they would despise the transgender community and they would truly be bigoted against it. But to make somebody so militantly trans that they're willing to engage in violence, which we've seen now many times, these mass shootings with trans individuals, the ideological brain, mind control processes have similarities, similarities that people should be aware of, tactical similarities. And that's what I lay out in Manufacturing Delusion that I think is resonating with people so much because they're going, oh, my gosh, he's right. Whether you're in a cell in the gulag in the 1950s or you're on a college campus and you've used the wrong pronoun, why do they insist on making you confessed? Why do they insist on your public humiliation? They could just expel you or they could just, you know, in the Gulag, obviously make you disappear. It's because it's part of the control mechanism to make you go through these processes of, of confession, of isolation, of identity construction. And these are all, by the way, chapters in the book in manufacturing Delusion, that when people read them, they'll understand how these processes of coercing the mind really function for any kind of radical. And that's why I think it's so important today. Because, Lisa, it's the radicals in our own society and around the world who pose the greatest threat. It is not climate change. It is not, you know, all the whales are going to die or the polar bears are going to drown or, you know, we're not going to have enough racial justice or something. The worst thing in the world is mass delusion and a state in the hands of those who are deluded that they can then mobilize for the purposes of war, of ethnic cleansing, of repression, any number of things. And so that's why Manufacturing Delusion is such an important book. And I really hope your audience will do me the honor of picking up a copy.
- [27:40]
Lisa Booth
Yeah, I mean, I think with climate change, like, you get one chance at predicting doom and gloom, and then when it doesn't happen, we ignore you after that. But I would think so.
- [27:48]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, you should. Yeah.
- [27:49]
Lisa Booth
I want to ask you about. I'm lumping these together for the sake of time, but you write about, like with Stalin and Mao and sort of like the collective reinforcement and that it's psychologically costly to speak out or to dissent. But now we have social media and we saw, like, even with Black Lives Matter people, I think it was like this. I don't remember. I didn't do it, but. Or like covet. Right. So it's like now we have sort of social media sort of amplifying that you're a bad person or you're wrong or you're dangerous if you speak out against what's being sort of like collectively pushed. So how does that sort of like amplify regimes or governments or the ability to control society when, you know, now it's more visible if you're not part of the collective?
- [28:42]
Buck Sexton
It's that. Lisa. And it's even more. Because you're more visible, but also the ability of the state to monitor, to track, to try to hold you to account for wrong think, as Orwell would have called it, ability. Big Brother's technological capabilities, and I think, I think Orwell's. Orwell's work in general is among the most important of the. Of the 20th. And I think 1984 is one of the most important books written in the English language in the last hundred years. And you look at what Big Brother was capable of in his dystopian future in that novel versus what Big Brother is capable of now. We walk around, we have microphones all over our own houses. We're typing our own thoughts into our smartphones. We're sharing with big tech. We're sharing, therefore with governments that have access to big tech data what we're thinking. And then we also expect that on the other side, the outputs are going to reflect something, whether it's the search or the video that comes comes up or whatever, reflect something that is objective and true. When, as we know, that's certainly not the case in China, which is the second largest country in the world, the second most powerful country in the world. And in America, if we aren't willing to be vigilant about maintaining that intellectual freedom. It will disappear here too. And we certainly saw that during COVID which I mentioned in Manufacturing Delusion as well. So I really hope people go pick up a copy of Manufacturing Delusion. How the Left Uses Brainwashing Indoctrination of Propaganda against you and my dear friend Lisa Booth. You are the best. Thank you so much for having me on your show.
- [30:17]
Lisa Booth
That was our good friend Buck Sexton. Appreciate him for coming on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. I also want to thank John Casio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time.
- [30:30]
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- [31:01]
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- [31:31]
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Buck Sexton
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Buck Sexton
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