The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Charlie Kirk Assassination: Andy Ngo on Antifa, Extremism, and Political Violence

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Truth with Lisa Boothe – Charlie Kirk Assassination: Andy Ngo on Antifa, Extremism, and Political Violence

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode: The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Charlie Kirk Assassination: Andy Ngo on Antifa, Extremism, and Political Violence
Date: September 16, 2025
Featured Guest: Andy Ngo, journalist and author of "Unmasked: Inside Antifa’s Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy"

---

Episode Overview

This episode confronts the assassination of Charlie Kirk, reflecting on his legacy and exploring the political context and radicalization processes behind his killing. With guest Andy Ngo—an expert on Antifa’s inner workings—the discussion probes the suspected links between Kirk’s assassin, far-left extremism, and the broader climate of political violence. Lisa Boothe conducts a deep dive into the patterns, organization, motivations, and societal treatment of left-wing political violence, moving beyond headlines for a nuanced analysis.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mourning Charlie Kirk and Framing the Tragedy ([03:46])

• Lisa Boothe opens by paying tribute to Charlie Kirk, expressing shared grief, and framing Kirk’s assassination as a call for reflection.
• Questions the media’s tendency to “both sides” political violence, emphasizing that recent acts have largely targeted conservatives.

Quote:
“My heart has just been broken … The only thing heartening by it is seeing the millions of people around the world turn to God, turn to Jesus Christ and also to be more bold in their beliefs.”
— Lisa Boothe (03:46)

---

2. Initial Suspect Details and Antifa Symbolism ([06:28])

• Andy Ngo recounts first impressions following the release of the suspect’s name and evidence:
  • Notes phrases on rifle cartridges (“Hey fascist! Catch!”) and especially lyrics from “Bella Ciao”—a folk song long claimed by Antifa as anthemic.
  • Press and left-leaning social media falsely cast the killer as far-right, citing tenuous evidence, which Ngo rebuts.
  • Investigative reporting links the suspect’s roommate/possible lover to transgender identity and anti-Christian views, supporting a narrative of radical left-wing and trans ideology influence.
  • FBI now investigating radicalization angles, including possible Antifa and transgender ideology connections.

Quote:
“When the governor quoted from one of the other cartridges, which were the lyrics of Bella Ciao, like my jaw dropped … This was a very specific dog whistle to Antifa in particular.”
— Andy Ngo (06:52)

---

3. The ‘Transifa’ Phenomenon and Overrepresentation of Trans Individuals in Extremist Arrests ([13:52])

• Boothe brings up research (John Lott) on heightened transgender representation in mass violence.
• Ngo explains ‘Transifa’ (a term he coined) as recognizing a significant intersection between gender-diverse individuals and left-wing extremism, laid out with arrest statistics from Portland’s riots (up to one-third of arrestees “gender-diverse” in some events).
• Describes evolution and mutation of Antifa ideology—from global trade to BLM to trans activism, with each cycle leveraging new societal grievances.

Quote:
“On some nights it was 10% of the arrestees [in Portland] were somehow gender diverse … On many other nights it was 20%, up to a third.”
— Andy Ngo (14:24)

“Trans rights or else … and then pictures of rifles and firearms.”
— Andy Ngo (17:54)

---

4. Organization and Radicalization Methods of Antifa ([22:51])

• Boothe: “How organized is Antifa? How does it spread?”
• Ngo describes Antifa as a flexible, decentralized ideology rather than a single group—comparable to radical Islam in structure.
  • Multiple forms of radicalization: in-person literature/book fairs, online propaganda, and in recent years, leveraging mainstream media.
  • Social media plays a large role; literature frames ‘direct action’ (often violent) as justified.
  • Recalls a North Texas case where militants had radical texts about government overthrow.

Quote:
“At first it’s about fighting for immigrant rights and fighting for black lives … but you just turn a few of the pages and it’s like … the goal is to overthrow the US Government.”
— Andy Ngo (23:03)

---

5. Domestic Terrorism Designation: Can/Should Antifa Be Classified as Such? ([26:11])

• Boothe asks about Trump’s call to designate Antifa a domestic terrorist organization.
• Ngo explains legal limitations: US law doesn’t allow banning groups based on ideology.
• Antifa’s deliberate avoidance of formal structure makes prosecution difficult; successful cases, like SoCal Antifa’s conviction, are rare and little publicized.
• Antifa evolves: in recent years, less open about group identity, more about shared iconography and network-based radicalization.

Quote:
“The way that Antifa organizes … it’s dispersed amongst so many decentralized cells. A lot of them don’t even have names … that they do it all intentionally to be ‘non-organized.’”
— Andy Ngo (26:32)

---

6. Personal Accounts: Andy Ngo’s Experience as Antifa Target ([35:17])

• Boothe: Recaps Ngo’s frontline reporting and personal targeting by Antifa.
• Ngo details his initial underestimation of Antifa’s willingness to use violence—until repeated personal assaults made the threat real.
  • Emphasizes Antifa’s use of both asymmetric warfare (doxxing, intimidation, misinformation) and actual violence—including cases of left-wing political assassinations, which the media largely ignore or justify.
  • Points out systemic protection from sympathetic prosecutors and media, who drop cases or minimize coverage of left-wing violence.

Quote:
“I hope people are waking up and learning … the militant left, Antifa and other ideologies … they mean what they say. They don’t hide it. They want … to win by any means necessary.”
— Andy Ngo (35:52)

---

7. The “Both Sides” Argument in Political Violence ([41:07])

• Boothe presses on media’s “both sides” framing after Kirk’s killing.
• Ngo counters that left-leaning research selectively excludes certain left-wing or ambiguous political violence from academic studies, skewing data. Cites cases of black nationalists or jihadist attacks miscategorized or omitted.
  • Warns about the normalization or justification of violence against conservatives, underpinned by research showing high rates of left-leaning Americans (per one survey) condoning violence against figures like Trump.

Quote:
“What really disturbs me is the denial. When it happens on the left … in some part they play a role in creating this environment where their political opponents can be dehumanized with impunity.”
— Andy Ngo (41:39)

“One study at a research organization at Rutgers found that over 50% of those who identified as left of center said yes, it’s justifiable in some way [to assassinate Trump].”
— Andy Ngo (45:10)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s very little space to write on four cartridges … unless we find a manifesto, this is going to be the manifesto.”
  — Andy Ngo (06:52)

• “Transifa was a term that I coined … an observable phenomenon.”
  — Andy Ngo (14:24)

• “There are a lot of legal nuances to weave through.”
  — Andy Ngo (29:13) [on Antifa and terror designations]

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:46] — Lisa Boothe’s introduction and tribute to Charlie Kirk
• [06:28] — Andy Ngo on suspect details, Antifa signals, and media misinformation
• [13:52] — Discussion of ‘Transifa’ and trans representation in far-left extremism
• [22:51] — Antifa’s structure, radicalization pathways, and organization
• [26:11] — Should Antifa be designated a domestic terrorist organization?
• [35:17] — Ngo’s first-hand experiences with Antifa violence
• [41:07] — The “both sides” argument exposed and critiqued

---

Conclusion & Takeaways

Lisa Boothe and Andy Ngo’s conversation centers on the need to face the realities of ideological violence, highlight the evolving shape and methods of Antifa and similar radical networks, and challenge simplistic media narratives. The episode provides not just commentary, but a call for vigilance, research integrity, and societal introspection after the assassination of a major political figure. For those concerned with political extremism—left, right, or otherwise—this discussion offers deep context and firsthand perspective.

Learn more: Andy Ngo's substack at ngocomment.com and book, “Unmasked: Inside Antifa’s Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy”.

---

Transcript

[Lisa Booth]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Christina Quinn]

Time for a sofa upgrade. Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anime is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions. Restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Voice]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Rated everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately.

[Andy Ngo]

Ugh. Come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Still using yesterday's tech Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon Ultra Light Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance, it keeps up with your business, not the other way around.

[Andy Ngo]

Whoa.

[GoDaddy Advertiser]

This thing moves.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[GoDaddy Advertiser]

Running a business online. Look legit and own your own brand with professional tools from GoDaddy. Instantly build trust with your customers and boost your credibility with an email that matches your domain so people know you mean business. There's never been a better time. Just go. Go to GoDaddy.com GDnow and choose from a wide variety of popular domains to find one that's right for you. Pair that with a professional email that works for all your business needs from daily communications to email marketing and everything in between. That's a little price for a lot of credibility. For a limited time get a domain and matching professional email for just 99 cents a month for one year. Go to GoDaddy.comGdNow and look legit with GoDaddy. That's GoDaddy.comGdNow again GoDaddy.comGdNow there's never been a better time to choose the domain and email that's right for you. New customer purchases only products. Auto renew separately. See terms on site GoDaddy.com GDnow this.

[Christina Quinn]

Message is sponsored by Greenlight with Schoolout Summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, invest and and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free Greenlight trial [e-mail] iheart that's greenlight.com iheart welcome to the.

[Lisa Booth]

Truth with Lisa Booth where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today. We're talking about Charlie. Like so many people in Republican circles, I got to know Charlie. He was an exceptional man. I'm sure you're feeling the same way, but my heart has just been broken. It's just been breaking over the past few days. The only thing heartening by it is seeing the millions of people around the world turn to God, turn to Jesus Christ and also to be more bold in their beliefs. I'm sure you're seeing it as well. It's been a gut check for so many of us to look at a 31 year old man who had so much purpose in his life. He knew exactly why God put him on this earth. He knew exactly what his mission in life was. He loved his family, he loved his wife. He treated people with respect. So you know, what are the rest of us doing? I'm sure you're feeling it too. This tug on your heart about, you know, what's my mission, Am I doing enough? So just want to acknowledge that and let you guys know that I'm feeling the same pain that you are after losing Charlie Kirk. On that note, I don't know about you, but I'm so sick and tired of the media trying to both sides this the bullets have been flying in one direction. We've seen the attempted assassination of Steve Scleese and other Republicans in 2017, the attempted assassination of Justice Brett Kavanaugh, two attempted assassinations against President Trump and then the assassination of Charlie Kirk. So we're going to dig into that. Both sides, nonsense. We're also going to dig into the radicalization of. Of Charlie Kirk's assassin. Was Charlie's killer tied to Antifa? Was the roommate? We're going to dig into all this with someone who really wrote the book on Antifa's violence, Andy Ngo. He's the author of Unmasked Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy. So we're going to tackle all these big issues with someone who unfortunately has seen Antifa's violence and the radical left's violence up front, who's been attacked. Who else better to speak to about all of this than someone who has seen the evil of the left up close? Stay tuned for Andy. No. Well, Andy, thanks for taking the time to join the show. It's been a while since we've caught up and just really looking forward to hearing your insight into this conversation. It's a sad one and a scary one, but, you know, you've got a lot of unique insight into it. So we appreciate you making the time.

[Andy Ngo]

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[Lisa Booth]

As we look at, obviously it's been a few days since Charlie was assassinated, we're learning more about his killer and the killer's roommate. What ties to Antifa do you think they have or to what degree were they radicalized? You know, I know you've been doing a lot of independent reporting as well. What have you learned so far in which we know?

[Andy Ngo]

So I watched the live press conference when the name of the suspect who was apprehended was released by Governor Cox. And Governor Cox also stated what was written on the rifle cartridges. And the first reference being, hey, fascist, exclamation mark, catch. Exclamation mark. You know, my eyes open is like, that's. There's very little space to write on four cartridges. And this is basically, unless we find a manifesto, I think this is going to be the manifesto. So the limited space was used for that particular choice of words. And then when the governor quoted from one of the other cartridges, which were the lyrics of Bella Chow, like my, my jaw dropped like this was a very specific dog whistle to Antifa in particular. Bella Ciao is a old Italian folk song and it was used by those during the Second World War who oppose fascism in Hitler and in the decades since leftists and communists and Antifa have adopted it. Antifa in particular, they put it in, in their slogans and chants, on their placards, in their Social media profiles. It's like their unofficial theme song. You can think of it that way. And in 2019, the Tacoma Antifa gunman who died shooting up an ICE facility in Washington state, in his manifesto, he also referenced the same lyric. So I immediately, like, that's what stood out to me. And then, of course, there were these other game references on some of the other cartridges and a furry reference as well. So in the immediate hours after that, I was trying my best to combat the lies and misinformation that was being put out by leftists online, which unfortunately was then laundered into mainstream media, LA Times in particular. And then on the Wikipedia and therefore Google and AI, which said that, oh, the Bella child was actually being used ironically in a far right manner, and that maybe the suspect is actually a far right white nationalist, a Christian nationalist. And I looked at the evidence that they presented for that, and there was none. The evidence was a Spotify playlist with five followers. That was, I think it was. It was called America first or Groiper, something like that on the playlist. And it had the song on it remixed in the dance version amongst dozens of other songs. And this is an account that has no connection to the suspect. And it was just put out there as, hey, like, maybe he meant it in this way. And a lot of people believe that online. So with that, we've learned other things. I wasn't particularly surprised when Fox News first reported that, according to sources, it was suspected that the roommate of the suspect is not just a roommate, but likely a lover and who is transgender. And I did some of my own digging, spoke to a source who gave me a suspected username of the roommate that was being used on Steam. So with that news tip, I went in and I dug in. And on Steam, which is a gaming platform where you can buy video games and play video games, you can look on the username history. And so the current username the news tip I got was Flexitol. And and then I looked at the history and one of it was a variation of Lancelot. And so I did some searches and it led me with those exact old usernames to a TikTok that was still active, a TikTok which had a video which showed the face of the lover of the suspect gunman. And so I was able to tie together, oh, this was his. Absolutely his account. And then I did more digging. He used some of those old usernames also on Reddit, and saw that, oh, he talked extensively about being transgender, about being on cross sex hormones about his dislike of Christianity. So this is a picture coming together. And I know that there's been reporting that the FBI is probing to see if the accused was motivated in part because of his support for radical transgender ideology. And also that there are left wing groups who are being looked into. One who deleted its social media presence immediately after the shooting. So these are lines of inquiries that the FBI is doing according to press reports. And my impression of the profile that's coming out of the suspect is that it seems like he may have been radicalized into some of the antifia ideology that's steeped into the wider culture. He seems to have been a type of person who, from what we know, who was online a lot and was a big gamer, much like the lover. And I have not seen any other evidence either through other reporting or through my own findings that he was involved with a militant cell. However, I did see that the New York Post reported that in recent weeks that there were individuals allegedly coming in and out of the apartment in St. George, Utah, which, I mean I'm. I'm paying attention to that. Sometimes with this violent extremist radicalization, it can happen very fast. We already know according to what his family has allegedly said to the press and to investigators, that for quite a long time he had been left wing. And the Guardian did report that a person who was formerly friends with him in high school that he was becoming quite radical as far back as his sophomore year of high school.

[Lisa Booth]

You know, we, we hear the term transifa. I know John Lott with the Crime Prevention Research center told me about the transgender are overrepresented in committing mass murders. They're about seven times more than their share of the population. That was after the Minnesota mass, you know, mass murder at the, the church. You know, with transa, how tied are like the transgender community to an tifa is, you know, what's the overlap there? I guess.

[Andy Ngo]

So. Transifa was a term that I coined and it was to describe a phenomenon that I observed actually five years ago from my on the ground reporting about antifa. I just at that time, anecdotally, not even, not not even anecdotally this is through the data because there were so many arrests. But by the, by 2021, so there were six months of riots in, in Portland after George Floyd died. There were about a thousand arrestees. That's a really huge data set for one city that had such radicalization in people who were participating in an insurrection against the government for the cause of so called anti fund BLM. And on some nights it was 10% of the restees were somehow gender diverse, which is a very large number. I mean, estimates that academics have done on the American population is maybe half a percent is gender diverse identifying, which is much bigger than how it used to be. So the number's growing, but it's not 10%. But on many other nights it was 20%, up to a third. And actually I'm seeing the same phenomenon happen. Been with my tracking of the dozens who have been arrested and charged in the ongoing riots happening currently outside the ICE facility in Portland, Oregon where I'm originally from. So there's an observable phenomenon. And I think maybe what may be explaining that is that antifa broadly as an ideology movement mutates and it changes with what's happening in wider society. So back in 2011, around that time, it was very much around antifa movement was again was about opposition to like world trade organ, WTO conferences and like internationalist type events that were happening. If it happened to be hosted in the US or somewhere in Europe, they would be targeted for violence because they viewed the, the liberal international order as fascist, which they wanted to destroy. And but starting around 2015, 16, then it latched on to BLM as well as opposition Trump. That's how it mutated next. And it was aided by mainstream media. Your listeners would not be surprised about that. The propaganda that was coming out day in and day out for BLM really radicalized a lot of people. And also the propaganda and lies against Trump's first administration also radicalized people to join some of these militant networks. And then starting, I would say probably around 2020, how it's mutated as BLM has become out of vogue is that it's focused on transgenderism. And the rhetoric that the trans activists are using, they're claiming that they are opposing fascism, that their so called denial of their ability to groom children into transgender ideology, that that's fascist, that the US government is fascist, and that they are victims of a genocide. And that type of propaganda has characterized not just fringe trans activism, but actually mainstream. If you go to any of their demonstrations, maybe Lisa, maybe you've seen some of these pictures online of the type of signs and shirts that they wear, Trans rights or else. And then pictures of rifles and firearms.

[Lisa Booth]

And knives just pretty much being very clear about what the else is, right? Got to take a quick commercial break. More with Andy on the other side. Who's really on your side when it comes to your health insurance companies, pharmacies that refuse valid prescriptions Not a chance. The truth is our health care system is broken. That's why more people are turning to All Family Pharmacy, an independent pharmacy that's actually on your side, the right side. They fight for your medical freedom, making it simple to get the treatments you trust without the insurance runaround. Right now, Ivermectin and mebendazole are 25% off, starting at just $2 a capsule and you can save another 10% with code USA10. Choose from over 200 medications, antibiotics, hydroxychloroquine, NAD plus, methyl and blue antivirals and more, all with a doctor's prescription included and shipped straight to your door. Go to AllFamilyPharmacy.com USA and use code USA10. Again, that's AllFamilyPharmacy.comUSA and use code USA10. If you believe in medical freedom, well, this is your pharmacy.

[Christina Quinn]

Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? WashablesOfAs.com has your back featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anna Bay sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back Upgrade [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Voice]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Greeted everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately.

[Andy Ngo]

Ugh. Come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Still using yesterday's tech Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon Ultra Light Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity. With Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance, it keeps up with your business, not the other way around.

[Andy Ngo]

Whoa.

[GoDaddy Advertiser]

This Thing moves.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[GoDaddy Advertiser]

Running a business online. Look legit and own your own brand with professional tools from GoDaddy instantly build trust with your customers and boost your credibility with an email that matches your domain so people know you mean business. There's never been a better time. Just go to GoDaddy.com GDnow and choose from a wide variety of popular domains. To find one that's right for you. Pair that with a professional email that works for all your business needs from daily communications to email marketing and everything in between. That's a little price for a lot of credibility. For a limited time, get a domain and matching professional email for just 99 cents a month for one year. Go to GoDaddy.comGdNow and look legit with GoDaddy. That's GoDaddy.comGdNow again. GoDaddy.comGdNow there's never been a better time to choose the domain and email that's right for you. New customer purchases only products auto renew separately See terms on site godaddy.com gdnow.

[Lisa Booth]

How do they organize Andy? Like how organized is Antifa? Like how does it spread? What's sort of like the radical? What have you learned about kind of like the radicalization process? Like how does antifa work as a network?

[Andy Ngo]

So first it's about ideology. It's a grievance ideology. The US is wicked. The world order led by America is an imperialistic system that oppresses people of color, oppresses black bodies, this is their language, oppresses trans bodies, that strips women of their bodily body autonomy, autonomy and is out there to, to empower fascists and white supremacists. And therefore it's up to people who oppose that to fight back in any way they can. So the tactics are really wide. I focus on the violent criminal aspect of it because I find that that's unfortunately ignored. But there's also a lot of non violent organizing around it and that involves things like disseminating the propaganda, making it, making the texts that they print out. They have booklets and texts which are used to radicalize people at. They quite often have anarchist or radical so called book fairs which are sometimes just tables that are set up in a park in some city. It happens a lot in these. This literature is used to introduce really radical Extreme theory in a. In a distilled, simple way that, like, a young reader, including maybe even a teenager, could read and just become radicalized. And at first it's about fighting for immigrant rights and fighting for black lives. But you just turn a few of the pages and it's like, oh, how that fighting actually works is direct action, direct action against the state. And the goal is to overthrow the US Government. Just a number of weeks ago, there was a shooting on an ICE facility in North Texas in Alvarado. And there was a local officer who was shot in the neck. And the militants who were arrested and have been charged federally as well as locally are accused of being part of a cell and have looked into them, and they're part of a North Texas antifa network. And reading the federal criminal complaint, when one of the suspects was arrested after the shooting, allegedly in an effort to destroy some evidence, they found a whole box of these radical texts in literature about overthrowing the government. And that is characteristic of how that propaganda is disseminated on the ground. Of course, now with social media, it's disseminated massively online. So it's. It's out on every front that's on the radical end. And then you have the role of the mainstream media in repeating various versions of the lies.

[Lisa Booth]

You know, Andy, President Trump said that he was asked if he would designate antifa as a domestic terrorist organization. He said 100% I would do that. Should he do that? Is Antifa a domestic terrorist organization?

[Andy Ngo]

So I saw a lot of people were excited about that online.

[Lisa Booth]

Yeah, walk us through that.

[Andy Ngo]

I want people to remember that. Actually, Trump said the same thing in his first administration. I believe it was in 2020, actually, or maybe 2019, that he had declared antifa terrorist organization. And it's legally. It doesn't do much more than act as a statement. I think a number of issues come up immediately. One, what does that even mean? Because in the sense that the US Our legal system at the federal and state level does not have the. The government has no ability to actually ban groups based on ideology, which is different from Europe. In the UK In Europe, they can ban specific organizations based on ideology. In the U.S. you can't. You run into First Amendment issues immediately. Second, antifa organization, the way that antifa organizes, people have to really think of it similar to radical Islam. You can't ban radical Islam. You can ban specific groups that organize around the ideology. For example, Al Qaeda is being involved in that is criminal. In the US Being involved with Islamic State is criminal. But those are like specific organizations. And the way that Antifa organizes that the. It's dispersed amongst so many decentralized cells. A lot of them don't even have names. And they do it all intentionally to be quote, unquote, non organized. There are groups like Rose City Antifa, which is in Portland, and they were involved in assault on me and other groups in different cities. However, in the last five years, a lot of those accounts on their websites and social media have gone actually pretty quiet. And they don't organize openly with the banners and such that they used to with their organization name. Instead, they'll use the symbols of Antifa as some of the signs, but rather than the name of the organization. I think they fear, for example, that they could get prosecuted under things like RICO or conspiracy charges, which has happened, by the way. There's a blueprint in two years ago in San Diego county, they were able to convict and sentence 12 members of SoCal Antifa. That story received no national attention. Very few people even know about it.

[Lisa Booth]

Yeah, to be honest, I didn't know about it.

[Andy Ngo]

Yeah, I mean, that was a case that took years of prosecution. Prosecutors uncovered it went to trial, by the way, all the evidence of organizing. So that ultra actually quite rattled a lot of the organized Antifa groups. Like. So now what they try to do more so is that in a way similar to what Islamic State did at their height, they would release the propaganda online. Do you remember they had like these PDFs you could download. It was in all these languages. You could go on their social media. They were. And just read any of it and then come radicalize yourself. And that really is sort of the. The tactic that they are encouraging their radicals and ideologues to do that. You don't formally organize under a group name. You believe the same thing. And if you can connect with other people online and then in real life who believe it, then do that, but do not organize as like an actual group. So I. To sum up, it's. It's a nice sentiment, I guess you could say, from Trump, because I guess the point, what matters is that he recognizes that this is. This should be a priority and that something needs to be done. The role of the doj, I think, is going to be. It's much more nuanced in how they navigate First Amendment issues. Right. Because part of the Antifa appeal is that it can draw in people who think that they're just. I'm part of Antifa because I'm an anti fascist. I've seen that a lot those are from people who are not really actually involved, but they would still identify with it. So there are a lot of legal nuances to weave through.

[Lisa Booth]

I've got to take a quick break. If you like what you're hearing, please share on social media or send it to a friend or family member who's really on your side when it comes to your health. Insurance companies? Pharmacies that refuse valid prescriptions? Not a chance. The truth is our healthcare system is broken. That's why more people are turning to all Family Pharmacy, an independent pharmacy that's actually on your side, the right side. They fight for your medical freedom, making it simple to get the treatments you trust without the insurance runaround. Right now, Ivermectin and mebendazole are 25% off starting at just $2 a capsule and you can save another 10% with code USA10. Choose from over 200 medications, antibiotics, hydroxychloroquine, NAD plus, methylon blue, antivirals and more, all with a doctor's prescription included and shipped straight to your door. Go to AllFamilyPharmacy.com USA and use code USA10. Again, that's AllFamilyPharmacy.comUSA and use code USA10. If you believe in medical freedom, well, this is your pharmacy.

[Christina Quinn]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Voice]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate Wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Rated everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately.

[Andy Ngo]

Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Still using yesterday's tech Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon Ultralight Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance. It keeps up with your business, not the other way around.

[Andy Ngo]

Whoa, this thing moves.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[GoDaddy Advertiser]

Running a business online look legit and own your own brand with professional tools from GoDaddy instantly build trust with your customers and boost your credibility with an email that matches your domain so people know you mean business. There's never been a better time. Just go to GoDaddy.com GDnow and choose from a wide variety of popular domains to find one that's right for you. Pair that with a professional email that works for all your business needs from daily communications to email marketing and everything in between. That's a little price for a lot of credibility. For a limited time, get a domain and matching professional email for just 99 cents a month for one year. Go to GoDaddy.comGdNow and look legit with GoDaddy. That's GoDaddy.comGdNow again. GoDaddy.comGdNow there's never been a better time to choose the domain and email that's right for you. New customer purchases only products Auto renew separately. See terms on site godaddy.com gdnow.

[Lisa Booth]

You'Ve spent a ton of time just on the ground and also researching all this in your book Inside Antifa Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy. You've also been a target of Antifa repeatedly. Walk us through just what you've seen up close. Like how dangerous are these people? Obviously they're extremely hateful. Kind of tell us a little bit about the evilness that you've seen on the ground and also being a subject of their violence as well or victim.

[Andy Ngo]

Yeah, you know, it took multiple assaults for me to kind of really understand how extreme and violent these these militants were. Like. Unfortunately it took that, I think a part of me for a few years. In the early years when I were reporting on them, like in 2016 and 17, I viewed them more as kind of just street thugs who would mask up and riot and vandalize. And I didn't quite understand that when they're, they called for the overthrow of the US government, overthrow of America and its ideals and they're used to violent rhetoric around that, they actually really, truly meant it. I think what people have to, I hope people are waking up and learning is that the, the far left, the militant left, antifa and other ideologies on the left, they, they mean what they say. They don't hide it. They want their, their goal is to win by any means necessary. So the warfare is asymmetric if you can think of it. It's like they're not engaging in the rules of battle where you don't do this or you don't do that. You know, like they, they're willing to do anything and everything if you lying for one, putting out disinformation, intimidating even targets that are lower level by doxing, releasing their addresses where, where their family lives, releasing pictures like those are some of the lower level things. And then they, they have tactics and methods to escalate towards killing and in terror attacks. And there's, there's been a number of, number of them who have been committed by self described antifa ideologues and people don't really know about the names because there's a whole system, an apparatus, I would describe it, that protects them. And we, we saw it play out in the last couple of days too after Charlie Kirk's assassination. Is that lies about left wing violence or the ignoring of it or Both? In, in 2019, there was a school shooting by an antifa member in Eugene, Oregon. He died in the shooting because there was a school resource officer fortunately that shot him and nobody even really knows about that case. I mentioned already already the Tacoma Ice Shooter in Washington state. In Portland in 2020, there was a antifa gunman who assassinated a Trump supporter in downtown Portland during one of the riots. And the way the media had reported on that afterward was that the victim who was shot dead was far right and was a suggestion that he also somehow deserved it. Right. So there's been a number of these attacks and I, I think actually what is most dangerous about all of that is not just obviously those who are capable and are committing acts of violent criminality, but how they are protected by much, much larger system. The role of Democrats in that, Democrats who are elected to office, prosecutors for example, who let out left wing violent criminals. That happened in Portland, that happens in Seattle. People always ask me what happened to all these thousand people who arrested at the riots. Well, the prosecutor would immediately drop the case. They would be released out of jail immediately, no bail, anything. So they would just return to riot again. They get arrested, let out, case drop, case drop. And then if the prosecutor sunny would have dropped the case because it's such a violent felony, multiple violent felonies. You have liberal judges who will dismiss the case or allow a plea deal where the person who commits, let's say multiple violent felony arson attacks gets probation only. And then there's a chance for the record to be expunged like that. That is a system that protects them and of course the press, they're all of the press, liars in the press, sociopathic journalists who lie. That, that is the part that concerns me because you know, any, any country is going to deal with some fringe of extremists who are willing to kill. But when you have a much larger system that protects them in the mainstream. We've seen how many people, for example, in white collar positions who celebrated the assassination of Mr. Cook. And we're calling for it to happen more and sometimes to specific individuals to happen to next. That's very, I hope is eye opening.

[Lisa Booth]

No, it's, it's been extremely eye opening. Before we go, you know, obviously to your point about the media, there's really this effort to both sides, you know, what happened to Charlie that, you know, oh, it's, we got to stop violence overall on both sides. And you know, is there a both sides to this political violence in the country or you know, I guess what do we know about where it's coming from? Is it a both sides issue or is it more specific to the left?

[Andy Ngo]

So this is a deflection tactic that those on the left do when they, when, when they're not able to get away with the lie that the accused terrorist or accused killer is, is right wing when they can't lie about that anymore because all the evidence and they say, well okay, he may be left wing, but look at, look at all this, this research that's been done about the real threat in America and they always cite these same few studies that are done by liberal organ, liberal nonprofits. I have had liberal funders written by so called academics or researchers who are on the left. Some of them are even antifa, sympathetic researchers I would argue. And the issue is the methodology for it's very hard to categorize politically motivated crime simply as like left wing or right wing. I'll give you a few examples and then you, and then I'll explain how this stuff gets excluded from the data. For, for a reason. And then a certain narrative can emerge once you eliminate enough of the data. You know, there's been a number of killings that are quite, that happen somewhat routinely somewhere in America where a black suspect accused of a homicide may have made a reference to race, for example, may have said something anti Semitic. There were a few killings a few years ago in Jersey City, for example, by a black nationalist suspect and his partner. Where do you map that? On, do you map that left or right? Because in the sort of the eyes and ears of the, of the leftist academics when they think of racist, they think of right wing. But when it's a black person who's accused of that, where do you map it? Oh, they exclude that data. It doesn't really fit into this data set. What about jihadism? It's religious fundamentalism, but it's also Islam, which is called by the left. So do you map that on left or right? Oh, we'll exclude that. You know, we, that doesn't fit into a data set. And then when you keep excluding things then you can find what you want to include. And that's what happens with some of these screenshots that are coming out of these charts that are showing it's a deflection tactic. This is not a game or race about arguing who's more evil than who. There's a lot of evil and wickedness in the United States. A lot of violent people who are willing to kill and have killed. What really disturbs me is the denial. When it happens on the left, it's kind of like they don't want to admit that it happens because they know in some part that they play a role in creating this environment where their political opponents can be dehumanized with impunity. And there's some research that's coming out now, particularly after several high profile assassination attempts and successful assassinations in the US that has polled surveyed, I should say left wing and right wing respondents asking for their views on is it acceptable to assassinate Donald Trump? For example, one study at a out of a research organization at Rutgers found that over 50% of those who identified as left of center said yes, it's justifiable in some way. So that that is the data that these people don't want you to see.

[Lisa Booth]

And very disturbing. Go check out Unmasked Inside Antifa's radical plan to destroy democracy. It was a bestsel. Andy, thanks so much for taking the time. I learned so much from you in this conversation. Stay safe and we'll continue to look out for your work so we really appreciate you making the time. This was so interesting. I learned a lot from you.

[Andy Ngo]

Thank you. And my substack is ngocomment.com that was Andy.

[Lisa Booth]

No appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. Also want to thank John Kennedy Casio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time.

[Christina Quinn]

There'S nothing like sinking into [e-mail] you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Andy Ngo]

Ah come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Still using yesterday's tech upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 carbon ultralight. Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance, it keeps up with your business, not the other way around.

[GoDaddy Advertiser]

Whoa, this thing moves.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[Commercial Voice]

A treasure trove of bananas has been stolen and it's up to Donkey Kong and his buddy Pauline to get them back. This unlikely duo is going on a world smashing adventure using DK's destructive abilities to explore an underground world and the power of Pauline singing to activate wild transformations. Donkey Kong Bonanza available now. Rated everyone 10 and up only on Nintendo Switch 2 game and systems sold separately.

[Andy Ngo]

This is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at O D O o dot com. That's O D O O dot com.

[Christina Quinn]

If you eat too many ultra processed foods, you could be starving your gut microbes and they'll get hangry. That's one of many things I learned after working on a new audio course.

[Andy Ngo]

About the gut microbiome.

[Christina Quinn]

You can learn how to keep your gut happy by listening to Try this from the Washington Post. I'm Christina Quinn. I host Try this. Dig with me on practical advice for life's common challenges. Follow Try this right now, wherever you're listening. Seriously, try it.

[Andy Ngo]

This is an I Heart podcast.