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The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Gordon Chang Warns: China, Iran & the Stakes of Trump’s Beijing Summit
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- [00:00]
Lisa Booth
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human for 250 years, America has been a bastion of freedom. And as we look ahead to the next 250, we're reminded that freedom is ours to defend. Today, Alliance Defending Freedom stands in courtrooms across the country to protect those freedoms we cherish life, free speech, religious freedom, parental rights. These freedoms are at the core of who we are as a nation. They must be preserved. ADF is approaching a critical fiscal year end fundraising deadline. Your support today helps ADF defend these freedoms so they may endure for many years to come. Every dollar you give will be doubled thanks to a special matching grant while funds last visit joinadf.com Lisa or text Lisa to 83848 to give today. Sponsored by Alliance Defending Freedom.
- [00:52]
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- [03:23]
Lisa Booth
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today we're talking China, this big summit in Beijing, and we're joined by China expert Gordon Chang. We're going to dig into his expertise, try to figure out what are the stakes for this summit, what to expect, and what does he think the takeaways are going to be. President Trump has said that trade is his top priority for the trip. What is China's Wes Gordon Chang about that? Also, he brought along with them some major American CEOs. We're talking Elon Musk, we're talking about the CEO of Goldman Sachs, Apple's Tim Cook. The list goes on. So what does that signal to Beijing? Why are they coming along for the ride? We'll ask Gordon about that as well. Also, there's this big fight over the semiconductor technology as well. It has major implications militarily, technologically, as well as economically. We'll we'll get Gordon's opinion on that. And then lastly, and lastly, we'll ask about China's role in the war against Iran and how the blockage in the Strait of Hormuz has impacted the country. So all of that and more. We've got a lot to cover. Stay tuned for Gordon Chang. Gordon, thanks so much for coming on the show. It's always great to have you on. You're always a wealth of knowledge when it comes to everything related to China. So appreciate you for making the time.
- [04:45]
Gordon Chang
Oh, well, I really appreciate it, Lisa, so thank you.
- [04:48]
Lisa Booth
So we've got this big summit in Beijing that is already underway. Obviously, a lot of topics for them to dig into, Taiwan trade, what's going on in Iran as well, I guess how do you see this meeting kind of take us big picture. How do you view this meeting and sort of what are your expectations?
- [05:09]
Gordon Chang
Yeah, there are a lot of doomsters out there. I mean, people who have Trump derangement syndrome or just don't like America. And that narrative is that Trump is going in as a supplicant. Now, yes, Xi Jinping does have a big home court advantage, and that is always true when a foreign leader goes to the Chinese capital. But if you step back and look at the United States and China, the United States is a much more powerful society. And China right now is a society which is in decline. And we see this with the economy, which is deteriorating. Sometimes it looks like, looks like it's generating fast. But also we see a lot of gloomy, pessimistic sentiments among the Chinese people. So for all the AI advances and humanoid robots, the Chinese people right now are very pessimistic. Many of them have opted out of society. And this really means, as President Trump goes in with the high cards, also, you gotta look at what's happened this year. President Trump has been taking China's proxies off the board. Venezuela, Iran, he's pressuring Cuba. So China is in retreat around the world. And so when you look at this, it says that President Trump can push the Chinese around. That's not to say that he will, but it is to say he's got the power to do it.
- [06:33]
Lisa Booth
You know, President Trump, obviously, he's bringing, you know, his diplomats, his, you know, trade advisors on this trip with him, government officials, but he also has some business titans with him, from Elon Musk to Goldman Sachs to Apple. You know, I mean, like the list goes on, like business titans. What message do you think that sends Beijing? You know, why do you think they're there? Kind of walk us through the significance of that.
- [07:01]
Gordon Chang
Well, it signals to the Chinese that President Trump wants American companies to do more business in China. And so it gives Xi Jinping some more leverage that he otherwise would not have had if Trump had not brought the CEOs with him. I actually think that because of China's assault on foreign companies, something that has been especially evident since the middle of 2023, but certainly was obvious beforehand that we should be trying to protect our companies and make them less vulnerable to Xi Jinping. So I think that that's the wrong strategy. But this could be some short term advantages for the United States and it certainly would create some employment between perhaps now and the midterms.
- [07:47]
Lisa Booth
You know, President Trump has said that trade's at the top of the list for him. What's at the top of the list for China?
- [07:54]
Gordon Chang
I think that trade is really important for China. And the reason is that Xi Jinping has turned his back on consumption as the basis of the Chinese economy, which means that his only hope for growth is. Is exporting more. And the United States accounts for something like, oh, 30, 31, 32, maybe even 33% of global consumption, which means that China really needs the US Market, and it needs it to be open so President Trump can control that. Now, of course, the Supreme Court has dealt Trump a blow by taking down his 1977 act tariffs, but Trump has a lot of other ways to deny the Chinese access to the American consumer. So I think for Xi Jinping, this is, if not life or death, it certainly is a critical point that he wants to talk to President Trump about. The other thing is that, of course, oil. China gets somewhere between 45 to 50% of its seaborne imports of oil through the Strait of Hormuz, which is mostly blocked. And. And that means that they depend right now on the US Navy. So that's going to be also at pretty close to the top of Xi Jinping's list of things he wants.
- [09:11]
Lisa Booth
What role has China played in the war against Iran?
- [09:17]
Gordon Chang
There would be no war against Iran right now were it not for China because China transplanted its nuclear weapons program onto Iranian soil. China made transfers which were both direct and. And through the nuclear black market ring of Dr. A. Q. Khan of Pakistan. And this is something that the United States needs to say because a lot of people say, well, this was a war of choice. No, this was not a war of choice. This was certainly a war of necessity. And so we need to actually say that in public. And no American president has been willing to do that. The Chinese have been proliferating since the 1970s. It became very obvious during the presidency of Bill Clinton, and it's continued on since then. And yet no American president is willing to call the Chinese out on this. The other answer to your question is China has been providing everything that Iran needs to prosecute this war, except for combat personnel. So there's been diplomatic support, propaganda support, economic support, targeting data and weapons.
- [10:22]
Lisa Booth
Quick break. Stay with us. If you like what you're hearing, please share on social media or send it to your family and friends. Colorado is at it again, trying to silence free speech long. Colorado forces businesses to use customers preferred pronouns even if they're biologically incorrect. And even if using these incorrect pronouns would violate a person's religious beliefs or conscience. That's a violation of free speech. But as Colorado has proved time and time again, it is little concern for the First Amendment. At Alliance Defending Freedom, they're challenging the law on behalf of a Christian bookstore and a Colorado based sports apparel company, but a court ruling recently ruled against them. But with ADF's help, they appealed the ruling and they'll continue fighting to ensure Colorado doesn't get away with this next attempt to skirt the First Amendment. Your gift helps protect free speech in cases like this all over the country. And for a limited time, your first gift to ADF is doubled by a special matching grant while funds last. Text Lisa to 83848 or go to joyanadf.com Lisa to have your gift doubled. Sponsored by Alliance Defending Freedom.
- [11:32]
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- [14:04]
Lisa Booth
Taiwan's obviously a flashpoint. Where do you think President Trump is on that today and do you think it'll come up, these conversations?
- [14:13]
Gordon Chang
It will certainly come up because the Chinese will bring it up. And what President Trump will do, I don't know. I tend to think, and maybe this is me wishing, but I actually do tend to think that President Trump will not make substantial concessions to China on Taiwan and he certainly shouldn't for a lot of reasons. Defending Taiwan is defending the United States because Taiwan is critical to our defense for a lot of reasons. And it's more than just microchips. But their range of opinion on what Trump will do on Taiwan covers the full spectrum. That he will sell out Taiwan or that he will stand fast. I've heard all of those opinions and number of people have expressed. I've heard this a lot. So I tend to think President Trump will stand firm. But the only thing is we're only going to have to wait. We're going to have to wait until the end of the summit.
- [15:09]
Lisa Booth
How much of this is China sort of weeding out President Trump and seeing who's next in office?
- [15:16]
Gordon Chang
Well, that's the attitude of every Chinese leader to Americans and that gives rise to this narrative that the Chinese are long term thinkers. But that narrative is no longer true because Xi Jinping has been making some very, very short term decisions. You know, we always say, well, we Americans, we think in four year or two year increments tied to our election cycle. But Xi Jinping has an election every day, any day he could be removed from office. So he's made some very short term decisions.
- [15:53]
Lisa Booth
Interesting. So that signals to you that the, the job, his job might be in jeopardy.
- [15:58]
Gordon Chang
Yes, it certainly is in jeopardy. He has been able to hold on to it, but we are seeing in the military intensifying purges. A lot of people will say, and you'll see this on US News websites like cnn, that he had Xi Jinping has absolute control of the Chinese military. That is on its face a wrong opinion because if Xi Jinping had absolute control over the Chinese military. He wouldn't have to be firing all these people, and he's been firing people that he himself has put into place, which just on its face says the Xi Jinping is not controlling the military. Now, Lisa, there are all sorts of rumors about what has happened, and some of them are really quite interesting. I don't believe them, or at least I don't have facts to support them. But, you know, we're hearing reports of coup attempts and all the rest of it, and there are also reports of executions of senior officers. So it's really in disarray right now. And whenever the Chinese military is in disarray, it means China's leader cannot be stable.
- [17:09]
Lisa Booth
So does that make them more likely or less likely to try to reach a deal with President Trump, given that President Xi's position is, you know, potentially in jeopardy?
- [17:22]
Gordon Chang
I think it makes them more likely than make them more amenable to a deal. But there's a couple complicating factors in that. Xi Jinping is incredibly arrogant. So for about a decade, he's been pushing this narrative that his favorite phrase or his second favorite phrase is the east is rising and the west is falling. And as a part of that, they've been making the argument that the United States is in terminal decline. And Xi Jinping absolutely believes this. But if you look at what's actually been occurring, the opposite is true. China has exhausted. China's society is exhausted, and that's largely. It stems from their economic model is exhausted. The failure of the Communist Party to do what is necessary, and therefore this pervasive gloom over Chinese society in the question here. Lisa, I think most Chinese officials understand that that narrative that China's going to take over the world, they understand that's not true. What I don't know is what Xi Jinping thinks, because he's extremely ideological, and he may have blinded himself to what's actually occurring, just as his hero, Mao Zedong blinded himself to what was going on in Chinese society. So I don't know what Xi actually thinks, but I'm pretty sure that his more aware subordinates understand what's going on.
- [18:48]
Lisa Booth
You know, the semiconductor technology is very important. It is important economically, technologically, militarily as well. Just how big is the battle over computer chips between the United States and China?
- [19:04]
Gordon Chang
Some people can say, and it's probably true, that the battle for AI is going to be won or lost on microchips, and we have a real big lead on semiconductors on microchips. And the reason why this is important is because the battle for AI is the battle for the 21st century, as people say. If that's an exaggeration, it's not much of an exaggeration. Now, China definitely wants Nvidia's best chips. And what was really interesting was that Jensen Huang of Nvidia was not on the initial list of CEOs traveling with the President to Beijing. But Trump noticed that he was not on the list. The story it goes, and Jensen Huang did fly to Anchorage and joined Air Force One during its refueling stop in Alaska. So Jensen Huang is now in China. The administration in January gave the green light for Nvidia to sell its H200 chip to China, which is sort of a second grade chip. But as we learned from a couple weeks ago from Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick that there have been no sales of H2 hundreds. The Chinese don't want the H200. They've been able to buy Nvidia's Blackwell chips, their best chips. They've been able to smuggle them in, by the way, someone should investigate Jensen Huang and Nvidia for they must have known that their chips were being sold in violation of U.S. export rules to China. That's a side story. But the point is they've been able to get Nvidia chips and that's the only way they've been able to compete with us because they don't have the compute power when you, when they use their local chips.
- [20:50]
Lisa Booth
You know, what, if anything, do you think could end up getting done or rectified on trade this trip? I mean, obviously it's a complicated matter. It probably would take more time, but do you think anything will get accomplished
- [21:02]
Gordon Chang
on the trade front, the, the poly market? You know, people who bet on outcomes believe that there will be an extension of the trade truce. So. And also, by the way, they 86% of the markets believes that Boeing will sell a lot of aircraft to China. So that's the betting. It sounds right. But again, we'll have to see. Most summits are canned. I mean, everything has been settled in advance. The communique has been finalized down to the periods at the end of sentences. This one doesn't appear that. And it doesn't appear that way because both China and the US have been imposing costs on the other in the run up to the summit, which means that things are not settled. And so that means that a lot of decisions will be made in Beijing by the two leaders.
- [21:57]
Lisa Booth
How do you think they view President Trump versus if this were the Biden administration heading into the summit, you know, sort of. How are those dynamics changed?
- [22:08]
Gordon Chang
Okay, I'm going to tell you what the Chinese think. I don't think that they are right, but they do think that they can push Trump around. They know he's unpredictable. They don't like that. But they have been used to the unpredictability in the first term and also in the first year of his second term. And Xi Jinping, you know, is part of this whole notion that the east is rising, the west is falling, is that, you know, President Trump leads an exhausted society, so they don't have respect for him. But, you know, let me put this in context. You know, Chinese leaders for millennia have viewed visiting foreigners not with mutual respect, but really as tribal chieftains who were coming to pay homage to the grand celestial court. That, of course, is Xi Jinping's view as well. Now it gets worse because Xi Jinping is actually really arrogant and really, I think, out of touch with reality. So the Chinese don't respect Trump. They are concerned about his unpredictability, but they don't respect him. Now, as I said, I think they should respect him. I think they do not understand him. They don't understand the United States, and especially Xi Jinping is in this ideological cloud which really prevents him from correctly assessing both the United States and its president.
- [23:28]
Lisa Booth
They respect Biden?
- [23:30]
Gordon Chang
No, no. Um, they. They looked at Biden the way, you know, most. Most Americans did as being feeble, but they also. They could deal with Biden because Biden was predictable. They knew that Biden was going to just basically continue American policies, and they didn't like that at all. So, you know, they. They look at. There's certain things they liked about Biden, certain things they didn't. And it's the same way with Trump. They have been able to, I think, delude themselves because they fundamentally, Even his subordinates, who are more in touch with reality, they do not understand free societies, and they certainly don't understand the United States. So they misassess every American president, whether his last name is Trump or Biden.
- [24:21]
Lisa Booth
Interesting. Before we go, is there anything else you'd like to leave us with?
- [24:26]
Gordon Chang
This is an important summit, but we've also got to remember that the United States right now is the one that's driving events in the world. The Chinese are bystanders. And you can see this because, you know, if you. If you go back, let's say, into 2025, the dominant narrative around the world, and there was justification for this, was that the hard Line societies were on the march. China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, the Krinks. But that changed on January 3rd of this year when Trump extracted Nicolas Maduro and his wife from Caracas in one of the most stunning military operations in the history of the world. And then Trump has been getting the Chinese out of Panama. He's been kicking them out of the rest of the Western hemisphere. We know about Iran. Cuba looks to be next in the queue. And we know the Chinese have been driven out of the Middle East. So, for instance, they lost a really important friend in Syria, which is now an American partner. And by the way, they should be thanking President Trump for that or we should be thanking President Trump for that. So I think the Chinese are a little bit bewildered by this, and so they have more at stake than we do. You know, there's that famous Atlantic piece just about a couple days ago that said if the United States fails in Iran, it is a final catastrophe, not just a temporary one like Vietnam or whatever. But that's wrong. We Americans, we tend to overemphasize our weaknesses and we underplay our strengths. The Chinese do the opposite. So a lot of Americans who don't understand China, and by the way, nobody understands China right now because Xi Jinping has been closing the country off. And so it's harder for us to know what's going on. But the Chinese are really good at hiding their weaknesses. We just got to remember we're Americans. We have to have faith in our system. We have to have faith in our leaders, and we have to get through this because we do have common enemies. And those enemies are China, Russia, and their partners around the world.
- [26:30]
Lisa Booth
Gordon Chang, appreciate you breaking this down. We will continue to watch this summit and see what comes out of it. And hopefully it's. It's good for America.
- [26:40]
Gordon Chang
I believe it will be good for America because everybody underestimates President Trump. And all of this hand wringing right now, I think is certainly overdone on our part. And we will come out of this strong because we are the United States of America.
- [26:57]
Lisa Booth
Heck, yeah. Gordon Chang, appreciate you for joining us. Thank you so much.
- [27:00]
Gordon Chang
Thanks, Lisa.
- [27:01]
Lisa Booth
That was Gordon Chang. Appreciate him for coming on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. I also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time,
- [27:16]
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