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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Heather Mac Donald on Homelessness, Crime & Failed Policies
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There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still. Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now we are here to help you keep going further. Capella University what can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.
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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prom. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage service by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures.
- [02:26]
Lisa Booth
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you today. We're tackling one of America's most visible and stubborn failures, the homelessness crisis. So what's driving it? We've got Heather McDonald. She is a Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. She's also a contributing editor of the City Journal and she's also the best selling author of the War on Cops and her book When Race Trump's Merit is Out, you should Go Get It. It's very interesting. In a recent article for the City Journal, Heather exposes the seven fictions behind failed policies that really prioritize disorder over public safety and housing shortages, over root causes like addiction and mental health illnesses, and also inputs over actual results like getting homeless people off the streets. So we're going to break it all down with Heather why billions of money invested have not worked, have not produced outcomes, and what's really driving the homeless crisis. So stay tuned for Heather McDonald craven
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- [04:58]
Public Investing Advertiser
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, cr now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures
- [06:00]
Lisa Booth
well Heather McDonnell, it's always an honor to have you on the show. I always learn so much from our conversations. I've had you on before, so really appreciate you making the time.
- [06:09]
Heather McDonald
Thank you so much Lisa. It's great to be back with you.
- [06:11]
Lisa Booth
So your article on homelessness caught my attention because obviously it's a huge issue. It doesn't always get discussed as much. But even if you look at places like New York, I mean homelessness increased by I think almost like 53% in a one year span from 2023 to 2024. New York City was obviously the main driver of that, but we're seeing spikes in, you know, different parts of the country. Mostly liberal cities. Why is this happening?
- [06:38]
Heather McDonald
It's a policy choice. It's happening because our leaders no longer care to enforce bourgeois values of public cleanliness order. They view their roles as advocating on behalf of the antisocial and the dysfunctional. There's no reason why there should be vagrant encampments in any city. It's a decision to allow people there These are people that suffer from mental illness and drug addiction. The greatest branding, Madison Avenue, I don't think has ever had as successful a branding campaign as the advocates that created the concept of homelessness, which is a complete psyop or whatever you want to call it. The problem is not that people lack homes. The problem is that they are mentally ill, drug addicts and they have the social ties that would keep people that are more stable housed if they have a setback in their lives. But the, the people on the streets are so crazy, so unreliable that they get kicked out of their mother's house, they get kicked out of their sister in law's house, and then they get to the streets and there's an entire industry that enables the vagrant lifestyle. People get pizzas delivered to their boxes, their encampments, their cardboard boxes. Drugs are ubiquitous. I mean, every time, if ever an encampment gets cleared. The main takeaway from that is just a whole lot of drug paraphernalia. It's ruled by advocates, it's ruled by NGOs that get money from social problems. And the taxpayers that are funding this vagrancy machine are viewed simply as ATMs and their interests are never ever taken into account.
- [08:30]
Lisa Booth
You know, how much of it, you know, obviously there's the big financial component that you laid out of, you know, sort of like these kickbacks as well and sort of enriching friends and the money making aspect of it. But there's also like this ideological aspect of it and it seems like with the left and it's the same thing, you know, we are Brooke, like the war on cops. And you know, there seems to be this consistent theme on the left where it's like the people who do bad and the, the criminals or these vagrants as you put them with the homeless, that their needs are supersede the needs of like law abiding, tax paying citizens. Why do you think that is? Like how did the left come about, this ideology? Like what drives it?
- [09:14]
Heather McDonald
Well, that's a very difficult causal question and I, but I'm going to add one other aspect to that, which is that the advocates want the homeless in the streets not only because they make money. The Coalition for the Homeless, every city has its own, you know, vagrant advocacy group and as you say then the shelter building services industry. But it's also an ideological statement because the advocates view people living on the streets as visible symbols of the heartlessness of capitalism and why we need to move to socialized housing, why we need to have even greater expropriation of wealth through a highly progressive tax system, more progressive than anything Europe ever has. So it's for them they are making a statement. But your broader point is one that I think about all the time, Lisa, which is why has government changed its function, changed its self conception away from serving as the guarantor, as the backstop of commerce of a civil society, protecting law and order, protecting making sure that streets work, that transit systems are maintained, that highways are maintained, making sure that there is the infrastructure that allows people that want to strive and get ahead to succeed in life. And instead now as you say, they have embraced the cause of the fictionally marginalized. This is the most prosperous society, it is the most tolerant society in human history. The idea that there are groups that are not like heterosexual white males, they truly are marginalized. I mean there, there's overt discrimination going on, getting into medical schools, law schools. If you have a, a straight white male son or grandson, you've experienced this. But the people that, that claim that, that lay claim to victim status are simply not. But that's what government has decided in sort of a post civil rights era that it's no longer about the basic public responsibilities that the private market can't take care of and instead it's taken the side of social justice and views the ordinary bourgeois citizen who's just trying to raise his family as somehow an impediment to social justice. And as to be very extreme in the statement, but to a certain extent, and I'm here in New York City, I can say when it comes to our mayor, this is the case views the hard working taxpayer, the property owner, the corporation owner as the enemy.
- [11:58]
Lisa Booth
And two, just the, you know, it's the same with the illegal aliens as well, that their needs are more important than ours. The, you know, the American taxpayers and the American law abiding citizens. You know, we obviously saw millions of illegal aliens come to the United States. A lot of these cities that are experiencing homeless, homeless crisis, they're sanctuary cities like in New York City. So what role has this influx of legal aliens played in the homeless crisis?
- [12:29]
Heather McDonald
Well, it's contributing to it at this point, but it's. We had this crisis for a long time before the big welcome mat and additional set of incentives for illegal aliens to come to. But again that's a great example Lisa. And there's trying to decide what a cause is for a very complex social phenomenon is very difficult. You can't test it empirically or you know, do a hypothesis testing. I would just say it to notice the phenomenon is already a lot. And as you articulate it is already a lot to notice that government, I call it the great inversion it has. It has overturned the traditional values that has always governed and motivated governments again, the protection of life, liberty and property. Property, we sort of are, we shy away from saying, well, property is important because it just sounds kind of selfish and, and mean spirited capitalist. No, the protection of property is the cornerstone of civilization. When you have, as you do in New York, every drugstore has locked up the most innocuous consumer items. The toothpaste, the, the Advil hair conditioner lotion. If you have a government that can't even protect that drugstore owner from rampant theft and shoplifting, that is a government that has no reason to exist. It has completely abdicated its most fundamental obligation, which is to make sure that somebody who wants to engage in commerce has the security of his property. And we're supposed to not be the third world or the middle Ages when you had highway robbers rampaging without any central authority of the state to bring them down. But we have regressed to that. So again, the illegal aliens, they're out there, but so many of them are dealing the drugs as opposed to taking them. And the mental illness problem, that's very, very much central to all of this. That's partly a response of decades of drug abuse. It's partly a group. There's certain groups that are much more susceptible to schizophrenia by genetic disposition than others. But the vagrancy thing began in the 80s. We remember the bag ladies and the shopping carts and whatnot. This was something new in American society that predates illegal aliens. Which is not to say I am not in any way saying that government is not completely ignoring its responsibilities and protecting the border and nobody has any entitlement not to be deported. Deportation is the risk that is assumed by every illegal alien who comes in. And sorry, you don't get to complain that there's statute of limitations or something on your being deported.
- [15:42]
Lisa Booth
Got to take a quick commercial break. More with Heather on the other side
- [15:46]
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- [16:17]
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could save you hundreds on your car insurance. At the Hartford, we're passionate about your protection. If you're 50 or over, AARP auto insurance from the Hartford gives you benefits that really matter and you could save $597 when you switch. How's that? For a little peace of mind, visit trust Hartford.com today the Hartford your protection is our passion. The Hartford Insurance Group Inc. Pays royalty fees to AARP for the use of its intellectual property. AARP and its affiliates are not insurers. Savings vary.
- [16:46]
Public Investing Advertiser
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this
- [17:47]
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- [18:22]
Lisa Booth
So why haven't voters caught on? Because in a lot of these cases, you know, Mayor Momdani will purport to be virtuous and that, you know, he's the caring person and that, you know, like the bleeding heart liberal type scenario. But then you know he just got a bunch of homeless people killed during a snowstorm or you know, they say illegal ill, you know, allowing, you know, feckless illegal immigration, that somehow that is virtuous. But then, you know, you look at the rapes that take place and take part in the journey and you know, so it's like it's not the virtuous thing to do, these leftist policies. So like, why haven't voters caught onto that?
- [19:03]
Heather McDonald
Yeah, and these are such deep questions. One can go back and back, what causes that? Well, okay, we say that then. Well, what causes that? You know, it's an infinite regress of explanation. I would say that some voters, again, this grows out of a very interconnected left wing view that regards middle class traditional bourgeois values with suspicion. You know, this began in the 60s with the youth rebellion against traditional values that was enabled by America's unbelievable prosperity that gave stupid, idiotic, selfish, narcissistic adolescents spending power and autonomy for the first time in millennia of human history. And their pseudo rebellion instinct was glorified and it's gone on since then with anything remotely resembling traditional adult authority being discredited. So but as you say, you could, if you're, if your main goal is compassion, you can play that on the other side. It's absolutely true. I mean, this is my big complaint about Black Lives Matter activists. They only protest if a black person is killed by a police officer, which is the minute number of killings blacks die. About 8,10,000 a year are killed in homicide. That's more than all white and Hispanic homicide victims combined. Even though blacks are only 13% of the population, blacks are mowing each other down dozens by the day. Every single day across America, dozens of blacks are getting killed by other blacks. And there's never a peep of protest from the Black Lives Matter activists, including when it's 3 year olds, 1 year olds, toddlers getting shot in the head, shot through the chest in their bedrooms, playing on trampolines at Barbecues, at 4th of July Barbecues as we saw this last summer in Washington D.C. with honestly cheetal, it's unbelievable. So their compassion is extremely politically oriented. And the other reason, because I asked myself this all the time, Lisa, why do voters keep voting in the Democratic mayors and governors that are directly responsible for the appalling conditions on the streets? I'm from Los Angeles. It's heartbreaking what has happened to that city. It did not used to be this way. Santa Monica now is just a complete nightmare. And part of it is that the left believes that so called homelessness is a phenomenon caused by economic conditions. By racism, by poverty. It is not a policy choice. And so they think that, well, the politicians are doing as much as they can and if it hasn't gotten solved, it's not because of bad policy, it's because our economy is cruel. So they don't blame the politicians. And so then there's never any accountability. But it is a mystery. It is a mystery why the bums don't get thrown out. Well, that's the thing.
- [22:17]
Lisa Booth
Because it's like, even on like the affordability stuff, which is what, you know, Zoran, that was the key to his success. But it's like you would think common sense would be like, all right, well, we've had Democrats in charge for quite some time. Like, affordability has not gotten better. So maybe like going with another Democrat, particularly one even more left leaning, is not going to solve that crisis or that, you know, that problem. But, you know, somehow voters have not figured that out.
- [22:46]
Heather McDonald
Well, they're getting such left wing ideology. You know, it's quite ironic because Mandami presents government as the solution to affordability. It's the problem. Government is the problem. You know, he keeps complaining about the conditions in rent stabilized apartments because the landlords don't have enough money. They're not, they're not being allowed enough rent to cover costs. And yet he wants to, he wants to make it even harder for landlords to get by. Rent control, it has never worked. It is guaranteed. It's anytime you have price controls, they don't work, government regulations, it makes everything more expensive. And yet, and yet people buy the line that it is the product. Problem is with capitalism and government is the solution. And certainly nobody in college is being taught anything different.
- [23:41]
Lisa Booth
Well, you know, and then too obviously, like these huge budget issues in places like New York State. Do you know how much they're spending to, you know, quote, unquote, solve the homeless crisis here in the city?
- [23:54]
Heather McDonald
A thousand per vagrant. The budget, it's in the billions of dollars and it goes up every year. But 80,000, at least that. Now I'm not saying we should build everybody a private home, because that's not the problem. The problem is that they are, they should all be either institutionalized for mental illness or forced to deal with their drug addiction. Giving them their own private apartment is not the solution. And it's nothing that taxpayers should be on the hook for. Nevertheless, it is, you know, it's, it's hackneyed to say, but 80,000 is a lot. You could do a lot with that if you wanted. But it's going to the advocates that keep the system going. Yeah.
- [24:33]
Lisa Booth
I wanted to ask you about the murder rate in the country is on track to potentially see one of the largest drops we've ever seen. I think the numbers are out in September, I believe. Right.
- [24:45]
Heather McDonald
For the FBI, yeah.
- [24:47]
Lisa Booth
What do you think? Is that Trump driven? Like, what's, what's driving that?
- [24:52]
Heather McDonald
Well, I think we had the biggest one year increase in homicide in 2020 with the George Floyd race riots and the demonization of the cops. It was a 2829 increase in one year. That's, that's unprecedented. And to a certain extent were reverting to the mean. I think it does matter that we no longer have the constant reinforcement coming from a White House that blacks are victims of police racism. And therefore, you know, there's a certain subtle justification of crime. Trump is willing to stand up for the police and there has been a gradual return to the essential proactive policing and actually enforcing the law. That is the one thing that government can do to lower crime. The social programs do not work. It's too late. The family structure has been too destroyed. Enforcement and deterrence from enforcement does help. And so that's been going on. And Trump, you know, I don't think crime policy is a very local issue. He has not been able to change the tactics in the 700,000 or so Police jurisdictions in this country, but he has sent a message that I think is salutatory, the usual. He also argues for the decrease of illegal aliens. I'm agnostic on that. This is obviously, as you know, Lisa, one of the most contested issues of what is the crime rate of illegal aliens. And it's hard to get satisfying data because the jurisdictions that are sanctuary jurisdictions, the county jails, the state prisons, they don't exactly care to look into the immigration status of their inmates because they're not even going to allow the ICE to take custody once they finish their terms. I would say my view, and this is something I've just sort of come to feel from researching over the years and reporting going to place, is that the effect of an illegal alien population that is a combination of white and Asian crime rates, which is very low, and black crime rates, which are very high. So if you have Hispanics coming into a white community, that community is going to start expanding gangs. But when Hispanics started moving into South Central Los Angeles and displacing blacks, the crime rate dropped and you got more bodegas being formed, more entrepreneurial spirit. So, as I say it, it kind of depends on what the context is
- [27:42]
Lisa Booth
how reliable is crime data, period, in the sense of, you know, what is crime actually being reported? You know, to. You've got a lot of these liberal cities too where there is no follow through as well, or, you know, people aren't being arrested, that should be arrested. So like how reliable is the data, period?
- [28:04]
Heather McDonald
Well, homicide data is gold standard. It's really not possible to hide the bodies. And basically every homicide is going to get reported one way or another. The the ones that are not are very few. So that those tend to, I think, show real trends. Now the other felonies, you know, we do have, sometimes you have pressure on police to reclassify. If you can possibly recalclassify a felony as a misdemeanor, do it. I don't know how widespread that is. You have also two different tests. You have crime data that the FBI has traditionally published. It used to be the called the Uniform Crime Reports. Now it's a different acronym that is National Reporting, Bureau of Economic. I'm not sure it's NBBRS or something. It's a different, It's a more complicated reporting system, but it's basically police data. So they report their arrests and then there's a completely different source, which is surveys of the American public. And those are national Crime victim surveys. And so what is usually the case is that if you ask victims if they've been victimized in the previous year, those crime numbers are much, much higher than the FBI reports through police data, arrest data, because a lot of people don't bother going forward to report their crime because they believe that the police are at this point indifferent to theft or burglary. So sometimes you have the FBI data going down and the National Crime Victim Surveys data going up. So you sort of have to hope that it's consistently wrong in one direction or the other as opposed to bouncing around from year to year. I tend to think I'm content to use the data. I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time trying to discredit it because I think it is consistent. Whether it's consistently wrong by 5, 10% each year doesn't really matter as much as being able to assess those trends.
- [30:12]
Lisa Booth
I guess it makes a lot of sense about the homicides. You're either dead or alive.
- [30:15]
Heather McDonald
You can't hide the bodies, really.
- [30:16]
Lisa Booth
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, you know, one or the other. Is there anything else you'd like to leave us with before we go?
- [30:21]
Heather McDonald
Heather, you're a very strong voice for sane government, bourgeois values and people should not accept that they have to live with disorder in their lives. They should demand much more from their government and not accept that their children have to grow up in, if they, if they're in a city or, you know, using a city, that they have to live with this type of human degradation. It's just, it's not normal. And we should all have much higher expectations and higher demands for our governments.
- [30:56]
Lisa Booth
It's, it's crazy. And then you're also your book When Trump or When Race Trump's Merit is Also Out. You're also the New York Times bestselling author of the War on Cops, which is a great book. Heather McDonald, appreciate your work. Always learn a lot from you. So appreciate you making the time.
- [31:12]
Heather McDonald
Thanks so much, Lisa. Great talking with you.
- [31:13]
Lisa Booth
That was Heather McDonald. Appreciate her for making the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. Also want to thank John Castio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time,
- [31:29]
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Heather McDonald
Visit Capella.
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- [33:28]
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