The Truth with Lisa Boothe: How Obama Turned Corporate America Woke

Summary

Summary of "The Truth with Lisa Boothe: How Obama Turned Corporate America Woke"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
• Host/Author: Premiere Networks
• Episode: The Truth with Lisa Boothe: How Obama Turned Corporate America Woke
• Release Date: March 6, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into the intricate relationship between former President Barack Obama’s administration and the transformation of Corporate America through Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives. Joining them is O. Skinner, the Executive Director of the Alliance for Consumers, who provides an in-depth analysis of how Obama's policies have reshaped corporate landscapes and the subsequent backlash under the Trump administration.

Obama’s Influence on Corporate DEI

The discussion begins with an exploration of Barack Obama’s role in embedding DEI principles within Corporate America. O. Skinner emphasizes that Obama’s administration exerted significant pressure on businesses to adopt DEI practices, stating:

"Obama wins. He's the president. He starts putting all this pressure on corporate America to do diversity, to do all these things that we now know as DEI..." (04:18)

This strategic push led to the migration of Obama-era officials into the corporate sector, infusing companies with DEI-centric policies. Skinner highlights figures like Tony West, former head of government affairs at Uber, as examples of how these officials continued promoting DEI agendas within their new corporate roles.

The Genesis and Evolution of DEI Departments

Skinner elaborates on the establishment and expansion of DEI departments within companies. He explains that these departments began as defensive measures to comply with governmental pressures but eventually grew in influence, often taking control of corporate policies. A notable point includes:

"The DEI department starts small and then they grow, and then they grow... and then one of those people becomes the CEO of the company." (10:17)

This trajectory allowed DEI advocates to gain substantial control, steering companies further towards progressive agendas.

Impact of George Floyd’s Death on DEI Initiatives

The tragic death of George Floyd became a pivotal moment, intensifying DEI efforts within corporations. While some argue it galvanized genuine support for racial justice, Skinner provides a contrasting viewpoint:

"What you saw during the Obama years was also this like, negotiation of corporate America...social justice crowd that just wants to take 30% of the budget of corporate America and turn it into crazy social promotion and stuff." (12:11)

He argues that the aftermath of Floyd’s death prompted both radical activism and increased corporate compliance with DEI mandates, often leading to overreaching actions that alienated core customer bases.

Corporate Backlash and Pressure Campaigns

The episode transitions to discuss the corporate backlash against DEI initiatives, particularly under the Trump administration. Skinner identifies key pressure campaigns, such as the boycotts against brands like Bud Light, Target, and Disney, as turning points. He explains:

"They worked because it was the first time that corporate America was viewing a lot of the DEI in particular stuff as not free... companies just respond to pressure." (14:23)

These actions demonstrated that corporate America was vulnerable to backlash, prompting companies to reassess and often roll back DEI policies to appease their traditional customer base.

The Trump Administration’s Course Correction

Under President Trump, the administration took decisive steps to reverse DEI and ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) policies. Skinner discusses how executive orders and legal actions have pressured companies to return to more traditional, merit-based practices:

"What they've done is sending the message that you know, this nonsense is over. We're going back to a meritocracy. We're going back to normalcy and common sense." (41:43)

He anticipates that sustained pressure from the Trump administration will further cement Corporate America’s shift towards the center, balancing between left and right pressures.

Notable Quotes and Insights

Throughout the conversation, several key quotes highlight the core arguments:

• O. Skinner: "Once you start selling something for certain reasons, you can't just sell half the package." (07:24)

• O. Skinner: "Like the police are doing things that are racially disparate, so therefore they're racist, and so we should get rid of them." (09:56)

• O. Skinner: "If corporate America is just responding to pressure, then back then they were importing all the Obama people because they were looking for the pressure to only come from the left under Obama and Clinton." (12:41)

• O. Skinner: "The pressure I bring is, you know, let the pressure set them free." (23:33)

• O. Skinner: "Nothing gives the government more ability to control every aspect of your life than telling you exactly how much electricity and power you're allowed to use." (32:32)

These insights underscore the argument that DEI initiatives, while initially framed as progressive and inclusive, have been leveraged to exert significant control over corporate policies, often at the expense of consumer preferences.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a forward-looking perspective on the sustainability of Corporate America's shift away from DEI mandates. Skinner is optimistic that continued pressure from both political ends will anchor companies towards the center, fostering a more balanced and consumer-focused approach.

"Most Americans... want to be able to go to the store and buy hamburger and drive my car that is powered by gasoline and then go and actually have and like cook it at home without the government telling me what I can and can't use." (46:02)

This sentiment captures the essence of the argument: that the true preference of the average consumer is for businesses to prioritize their needs and desires over ideological mandates.

Key Takeaways

• Obama’s DEI Push: The Obama administration played a pivotal role in embedding DEI principles within Corporate America by leveraging former officials and applying consistent pressure on businesses.

• Expansion of DEI Departments: What began as compliance measures evolved into influential departments steering corporate policies towards progressive agendas.

• Backlash from DEI Overreach: Events like George Floyd’s death intensified DEI efforts but also sparked significant backlash, leading to actions like boycotts that forced companies to reconsider their strategies.

• Trump’s Reversal Efforts: The Trump administration’s policies and executive orders aimed to dismantle DEI and ESG initiatives, advocating for a return to meritocracy and consumer-focused business practices.

• Future of Corporate Policies: O. Skinner believes that sustained political pressure will ensure that Corporate America remains balanced, catering to a broad consumer base without heavy ideological imposition.

This episode provides a critical examination of the interplay between political administrations and corporate policies, highlighting the ongoing tug-of-war between progressive initiatives and consumer-centric business practices.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host]

Was at a conference recently and I heard my next guest speak, and I thought to myself, let's get him on the show. He was discussing corporate America's embrace of diversity, equity, and inclusion, but he was saying things I hadn't heard before. And it was just different angles that I'm used to hearing. And that's what I try to do on this podcast, is just to get different angles, to get different guests, to keep things interesting, but also just so that we can all continue learning together. But what he was talking about is Obama's role, former President Obama's role in pushing these companies to the left. How his people infiltrated corporate America and turned them woke. So we'll discuss that. We'll discuss what happened and we'll also discuss the latest course correction. Now that President Trump and his administration, all these DEI executive orders and, you know, pushing America's companies back to the right. So we'll discuss that course correction. How long will it last? What do we need to know? So stay tuned for oh Skinner. He is the executive director of alliance for Consumers. He also previously worked for the Arizona Attorney General. He was the state's lead counsel in the United States Supreme Court. So stay tuned for oh Skinner.

Well, oh, it's great to have you on the show. I recently met you and, you know, we're having discussions about some of this DEI stuff. And so I was like, I gotta get them on my podcast. So I appreciate you making the time and I look forward to this conversation.

[O. Skinner]

This is gonna be fun.

[Podcast Host]

It will be fun. Okay, so let's start with. Because you, you said something which I hadn't really given much thought about prior to you saying it, but explain. Walk us through the role that the Obama administration and Obama world played in pushing these companies to woke and pushing these companies towards dei.

[O. Skinner]

Yeah, I mean, I think what's really important to understand about corporate America at a basic level is that they just respond to incentives and pressures especially. And, you know, you have to go back in time to what feels like forever ago. But, you know, Obama wins. He's the president. He starts putting all this pressure on corporate America to do diversity, to do all these things that we now know as dei and then he gets reelected. And so especially in his second term, you have all of this exodus of Obama era officials and lawyers and agency heads and they're all going into corporate America. Right? Like, one of the things that's easy to forget is that the Obama people all got jobs at places like Google or, you know, Tony west is like a great example. He ended up going to Uber and being the head of government affairs. And it's like you can literally follow the trajectory of like DEI in America. One of my friends says by following this guy, Tony west, and so they all leave to go to corporate America. And they're busy telling corporate America that the way to, like, be safe from the Obama administration is to just get ahead of them, do a little bit more diversity, do a little bit more esg, do a little bit more, a little bit more. You stay one step ahead of the government, and then the government doesn't smack you, doesn't fine you, doesn't sue you. And then we all forget that, like, all of those smart people thought that Hillary Clinton was going to be president. And so as the second term of Obama is ending, they're not pulling back into neutral. They're not getting worried about maybe having a direction shift in Washington. They're like, doubling and tripling down. They're hiring as many officials as they possibly can from the Obama team, and people they think are going to be favorable from the Clinton world, they're just like, really digging in. And then, then Trump wins. Right. So the easy thing to understand as you look at the world now is that all of the seeds for what we see in corporate America were driven by this belief from corporate America that the way to make the pressure stop from Washington was to hire the Obama people, who then, of course, as you know, they just import all of what they were going to do in the government, but now they have control over the companies, right? So they're just pushing the companies to do everything that they would have done had they still been in government. And so that's, I think, really to understand where it came from, you have to understand this, like, arc of what they thought was going to be 12 years of strong push from Washington with Democratic presidents to do all of what we now know of as dei.

[Podcast Host]

Well, and what's interesting is we know that Obama made race, obviously being the first black president, but really just a lot of race initiatives and, and really pushing sort of that racial division in the country. I mean, the irony is, when he left, I think it was even CNN said that, you know, 54 of Americans believed that race relations had gotten worse under his time. So obviously it didn't. You know, I guess he did do an effective job driving people apart. Was that just for political reasons or what do you think the strategy for Obama was with all of that?

[O. Skinner]

You know, it's hard. I always. People ask me sometimes whether the government officials are doing something for political reasons or for, you know, for their own altruistic reasons. I think it's always a mix of things. You know, it's hard when you are pushing this narrative for such a long Time on the left about where so many of their policies are, are hinged on like social justice, racial justice, all these things, right? Like, they hang so many of their policies on those things, which, you know, it's. The easy answer is to say, once you start selling something for certain reasons, you can't just sell half the package. If you're telling people that environmental justice is so important because minority communities are hardest hit, if you're telling people that you need to have different tax policies, different spending policies, all in the name of racial or environmental or all these other things, right? It's also really hard to then turn and be like, but we shouldn't be promoting people in corporate America. We should. Like, once you've sold part of the package, the rest of the ideas follow, if that makes sense. Even if they weren't like the reason that you were selling the idea, they all follow through, right? It all like, it continues. People don't, people don't suspend their disbelief and think that we should be very race conscious in some settings, but then not in other settings. And so when the left starts selling racial justice as a reason to do countless things, it follows through. And I think if you're being honest, a lot of the George Floyd stuff ended up being the logical conclusion of something that you can see. Obama would talk all the time about that. You've seen this when he's given speeches and lectured the left about identity politics and being crazy leftist, right? I think a lot of that is he, he knew that he was pushing this DEI stuff. And then the logical end point is these marches in the street being like, defund the police. They're racist. And it's like the people who set off like, they like release the virus are sitting there thinking, whoa, like we like, like racial justice to like explain our tax policy or our giveaway policy or our spending policy. Like, we didn't mean like, get rid of the police. And people are like, well, you told us that like, racial disparities mean racism. And so like the police are doing things that are racially disparate, so therefore they're racist, we should get rid of them. And you could just see the people be like, oh my God, it escaped containment. We didn't mean that. I think that's probably the right way to think about it.

[Podcast Host]

And also in thinking about it, I mean, it's kind of a straight sort smart strategy. Because if you're sort of pressuring these companies to build out their DEI department, I mean, most of the people who are going to be in those roles I mean, that's a left, that's a left wing, you know, way of thinking. So they're going to be filled with progressives and leftists. So it's, it's, it's actually a smart way to get a foothold with some of these companies. Right?

[O. Skinner]

So, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's, it's like, it's like, it's like what you see with some of the gender stuff and now where people will say, look, we need to have like a gender equity, we need to have a transgender department at this university. Well, all you're doing is when you start a whole new department and staff it with all your people, you give yourself like more boots on the ground. Right? And so you're exactly right. The DEI department starts small and then they grow, and then they grow, and then they grow and then one of those people becomes the CEO of the company. And now all of a sudden, like you've gotten control of a place.

[Podcast Host]

How significant was the death of George Floyd? Because I mean, that really set a lot of things off in the country after his death, from soft on crime policies to, you know, the rest of it. So how significant do you think that was in pushing these companies to the left and also, you know, forcing these companies to embrace dei?

[O. Skinner]

You know, it's funny, I actually don't know that it had a lot. If anything, I think it probably was like, didn't help them on the DEI front. Like, you got to understand that my core belief about companies and why you see like products being taken off store shelves, which is the thing I care about the most, is that they are constantly just negotiating with the pressures that they're under. And so I think, you know, the, this goes back to something we were talking about earlier. I do think that I'll get back to the George Floyd point, I promise. But what you saw during the Obama years was also this like, negotiation of corporate America between like the Bernie crowd that wants to confiscate all of corporate America and like turn it into like, you know, a government run institution and the social justice crowd that just wants to take 30% of the budget of corporate America and turn it into crazy social promotion and stuff. Right? And you could see that with the George Floyd protests where like there's radicals on the streets that are basically like, tear down city government, defund the police, and any company that is like not towing the line, we're going to like blast them. If you're not, if you're not taking down your ads, if you're not posting black Squares on the Internet. Right. And I think in a way that crowd, like, scared corporate America because they thought they had cut a deal where if I, like, if I give a huge DEI department, then, like, the Bernie crowd won't come for me. Does that make sense?

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[O. Skinner]

And I think that this gets back to our modern day. If corporate America is just responding to pressure, then back then they were importing all the Obama people because they were looking for the pressure to only come from the left under Obama and Clinton. And they're negotiating only between the Obama, Tony West. I'm going to work at a company, but talk about diversity. And the Bernie crowd, that's like, I'm going to talk about diversity and take your company from you. Right? Like, that's who they were negotiating between. And the right was silent. Right. And so are we surprised that corporate America just starts to, like, only make products for the left and only hire leftists. Right. What you've seen in the most recent set of years is Starting with state AGs, some private groups, and now the Trump administration. Why is corporate America snapping back to the middle? Is now there's like an aggressive pressure from the right to drop your DEI programs, stop doing weird ESG stuff, stop banning products, stop trying to ban gas stoves, stop trying to be weirdos, just, like, be the middle of America. Right? And bam, all of a sudden, corporate America sure is talking like they're now in the middle. Why? Because now there's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left. And so where does corporate America start to go? Somewhere in the middle. Right. Like, it's just suddenly, it's like conservatives have finally learned that the only thing corporate America can listen to, if we're being honest, is pressure. Whether it's a boycott or whether it's a lawsuit, they only respond to pressure. And now that there's consistent pressure from the right on these issues, you're seeing corporate America start to at least try to hew back to the middle. And that's a tremendous thing.

[Podcast Host]

Well, you know, and we saw some of these sort of, you know, I guess you would call them, I guess they're boycotts, but, you know, pressure campaigns, you know, getting a lot of bad press and, you know, a lot of social media activity with things like Bud Light and Target and Disney. Why do you think those specific pressure campaigns worked? And then kind of, what message do you think that sent to the rest of corporate America?

[O. Skinner]

I think they worked because it was the first time that corporate America was viewing a lot of the DEI in Particular stuff as not free. But you gotta understand that, like the sales pit, like, I can't explain enough to you that like Eric Holder, you know, he was the head of, he was the attorney general under Obama. He has this business where he goes to companies in the last few years and he charges them like $1,500 an hour. It's probably more like $2,000 an hour now because of, you know, how the world works. Telling him about how there's all these benefits to building out diversity and all these programs and it was working under Biden. He's making all this money. He goes to a company, tells him to be more woke, then he cashes a huge check. Well, nowadays we call it getting holdered because then they get sued by a state or now they're going to get sued by the, by the Department of Justice, and then he's going to come back in and be like, hey, I can defend you. I can make more money. Right? There's this whole industry of people telling them, do the woke thing. It's an unalloyed good. You'll get all this positive praise from the Washington Post and the New York Times. You'll be lauded. You'll get to be. Go to the high five people at your country club and it won't cost you anything. So just keep doing it, right? And then bam, Bud Light happens. You get Target, you get some of these other things. And like, for the first time, these official. These people in these companies who aren't radicals are like, wait, I did that thing. You said it was going to be all upside, no downside, but now I'm like getting this massive hit to my bottom line. I should have never done it in the first place. Like, you didn't get me anything. This is dumb. And so I think they worked because they showed actual, like, belief from most people that they just want people to make products for them and not just like lecture at them. So I mean, what I mean, the various ones that worked were where the core demographic of the company just didn't match the slop that was being thrown at them by the heads of the offices. Right? Like, you know, and so you saw people get really, really mad because something totally out of whack was happening. And corporate America responded because it was the first time they'd ever felt pain as a result of something that they were told was like a freebie.

[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Host]

What percentage of these companies do you think where like the C CEO actually believes these things versus feeling like they were sort of being held hostage by sort of employees and like the movement so to speak?

[O. Skinner]

Yeah, yeah. The line I keep being told by lots of different people, especially when I complain to them about like why they're removing products from store shelves is that about 70 of companies just want to go along and get along and so they'll, they'll, they'll do what the left wants when they left in charge to a certain degree. And they'll do it the right ones, but they're not, like, committed. Right. And then I've heard that, like, 30% of companies are, like, either wholly taken over by the DEI clan or the CEO believes it. Right. Like, I don't know if you guys saw this. Like, Ravi Starbuck has done just a huge amount.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, he's great.

[O. Skinner]

Yeah. And when he talks about how, like, Harley Davidson was one that he. That was really important to him because the customer base was conservative and the CEO was like this, like, euro, you know, like, you're a weirdo who's, like, trying to convince everybody that, like, climate change was going to end the world and that the only way Harley Davidson could survive is by stopping selling the product that everybody bought and instead they would just make, like, electric bikes. That's. That's an example of, like, the CEO is a believer. He's in the 30%. Right. There's other companies that have flipped under pressure from states or Robbie Starbuck where like, they kind of, like, you could just tell that they were just happy that somebody finally gave them an excuse to tell their DEI department to shove off. Right. That somebody gave them the right to go down to their HR department and.

[Podcast Host]

Say, like, they were freed.

[O. Skinner]

So the comment that. So one of the state AGs who is. Who is pushing back on this, he'll often refer to it as, like, I'm not anti business. I think that the pressure I bring is, you know, let the pressure set them free, right? Like, when I bring pressure on a company, it allows them to just make the choices that they know are right for their customers. Freed from the belief that they might be called out for being a bigot or a racist or all of the things that you and I have seen, people, people get called. He's like, I just want them to be free to just make business choices, Right? And surprise, like, business choices means that they're just, like, going to keep gas stoves, that they're going to still sell gas grills, that they're going to like, stop doing weird stuff and start just, like, meeting their customers. Right. And so he always refers to as, like, the pressure. Like, I'm going to. The pressure will set them free, Right. It's not me being negative on corporate America. It's me wanting corporate America to be better.

[Podcast Host]

So take us through. As the executive director of alliance for Consumers, take us through. I guess some of the craziest examples, examples you've seen of companies just pushing, like, ridiculous woke Things that even you've been like, whoa, okay, that's, you know, that's out there.

[O. Skinner]

Well, you know, it's funny, is a lot of the, A lot of it just, I mean, you've seen, I would say the craziest ones are the things that you've seen, whether it's, you know, Bud Light deciding that notwithstanding their core demographic, they're going to become like the LGBTQ hotbed of America. Right. Or it's places like, you know, or like what Target did, where you're just like, you, you know, they should know the demographic, their shops at their stores, and that they're not interested in seeing, you know, trans kids swimsuits. But what I think is actually like, more interesting is the craziness of the government. Because the government stuff is like, what you're now seeing is governments trying to push companies past where the companies even want to go. And so you've seen this. Like, I don't know if you've seen this in California now, like, you can't buy gas lawnmowers anymore. Have you seen this?

[Podcast Host]

I don't think I actually have.

[O. Skinner]

Oh, see, this is beautiful. Like, when you live in, like, real America, there is Florida.

[Podcast Host]

We're free there, you know.

[O. Skinner]

Yeah, exactly. Right, right. So, you know, I live in Arizona and that's close to California. So, like, we catch the, you know, we catch the blowback that comes out of there. You know, they're busy doing things like banning gas powered lawnmowers and leaf blowers in the name of climate change. Right. And so now you see these videos on the Internet of people walking to like a Home Depot and the cheapest thing they can buy as like a, like a normal, like, riding lawnmower that used to cost like, let's just say $1,000 is now like a $4,000 thing that depending upon where you live, you might have to charge it in the middle of the mowing your lawn. Right. All in the name of, like, esg. And you're just sitting there being like, you're literally making everybody's lives worse. It costs more and does a worse job. Right. It's like the theme that you see all the time, whether it's messing with your dishwasher, messing with your refrigerator. What's the outcome? The government officials are making it cost more and do a worse job. Cost more and do a worse job. And what I think is the part that is like, it won't mean as much to your listeners, but it means a lot to me is 20 years ago, when the Government officials would do this, junk companies and people would fight it. Where I see the DEI and the ESG stuff really doing this like dirty, dangerous thing is it's making companies roll over and agree to remove products and agree to do stuff in the name of the climate or anti racism or any of these other silly things. And so that leaves a group like mine to actually yell about how this makes people's lives worse. You used to be able to rely on somebody like at a company to say, well, I still want to be able to sell something to a person. But now they've been so scared by the left that they just agree. I mean, another one that I'll say is just bonkers and will make everybody's life terrible is California has now passed this rule that says if you want to operate trucks in California, you have to make your entire fleet zero emission trucks. What is a zero emission, like freight truck? It means that you're supposed to have like a truck like an 18 wheeler that hauls stuff all across America, be battery powered. Right? I don't know if you, I mean, I grew up in the middle of America. These trucks are limited by how much they weigh and the batteries weigh a ton, which now means that the truck's gonna carry like half as much and have to charge all the time. But California is busy trying to make it so that you can only have those trucks if you drive anywhere in California. Your trucks in Nebraska and Iowa also have to be zero emission long haul trucks. And the trucking companies agreed to it. They wrote this special agreement. You're laughing. They wrote this special agreement with the Biden administration saying even if your rule is struck down in court, we agree to implement it anyway in the name of climate justice. And so what you've got is, everyone, the stuff at your store comes on these trucks now it's going to get more expensive, it's going to take longer to get there, it's more expensive and does a less good job. And the companies were like, sounds good. So that's the stuff that just like blows my mind is when these officials look like they're just trying to make your life worse. You know, I don't know. Did you see, did you see all the articles, like right at the tail end of the Biden administration about how good life could be without air conditioning? Did you see this?

[Podcast Host]

Yes. Which I fundamentally disagree. I. Well, of course, like, you know, I'm the type of person who like lives in Florida and my apartment's freezing so I can sleep with a comforter like.

[O. Skinner]

Yeah, great, great, right?

[Podcast Host]

Like, I'm like a B of. I'm one of the worst offenders.

[O. Skinner]

We live in America. It's a wonderful place.

[Podcast Host]

I know, I know.

[O. Skinner]

So, but when you're, you're in the media, you know this. When the, when you see the first article that says how great it is to live without air conditioning, you're like, that's weird. When you see the second one, you're like, wait a second. When you see the third, fourth, fifth, and they talk about how like, the fight for climate change includes getting rid of things like air conditioners, all of a sudden you have this moment where you're like, oh my God. The reason you officials are raising the price of air conditioners or banning. They banned the HFCs that go into a lot of these conditioners. And I don't know, you probably haven't experienced this. Nowadays, a lot of air conditioning companies won't repair your air conditioner. They just make you buy a whole new system because they can't get the replacement chemicals. And so when something leaks, you now have to buy like a new $30,000 air conditioning system, depending upon where you live. And all of a sudden you have this moment, you're like, oh my God. That's not like a negative side effect from these officials perspective. You kind of want air conditioning to be unreachable.

[Podcast Host]

But why do they want us to live like that, though? Because, you know, I remember, like even there, I can't remember the exact headlines, but they were also basically like, you know, bread lines are great. You know what I mean?

[O. Skinner]

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.

[Podcast Host]

But like, why do they want us to.

What's, what's behind that? Like, why do they want us to live like this is.

[O. Skinner]

Okay, well, now we can explain the why. Yeah, the why.

[Podcast Host]

I'm holding the why.

[O. Skinner]

Oh, wait, so you may have, you may have heard this phrase, net zero, have you? I mean, I'm sure you've heard that, right? People are net zero, okay? Net zero means net zero by 2030 or 2050, depending upon who you're talking to, okay? It actually means that you have to hit net zero as defined by the un, like eia, like Energy group, right? They have charts in order to hit net zero, that means net zero new carbon emissions. They literally will say, okay, well, in order to hit net zero, that means you're allowed to have X percent of your emissions come from this and this and this. It literally means that you have to get rid of all of the natural gas powered fired power plants in America. All the Gas stations have to go away, your ships in your harbors and the cranes, they all have to become electric, the semi trucks electric in order to hit net zero. They have math that they have to solve for. And so when you buy this idea that the world will end unless we go net zero by 2030, once you accept that, you have to get people to give up air conditioning, you have to get people to give up the gas powered cars, you have to get people to make all of these changes and probably get rid of things like dishwashers, right? Get rid of things like a, like a refrigerator that is too big. Right, from the left perspective, because otherwise your math doesn't math, as one of my friends says, like you just can't get there.

[Podcast Host]

But certainly they know we're never going to get there though.

[O. Skinner]

See, this is where, this is where you and I can have that discussion of maybe some chunk of them are just, Bernie, people who think that like government needs to control all of this stuff. And so if you can, like, you know, there's that crowd and this is my mind. Right, okay, so you and I kind of share that mind. But there's like a whole nother crowd that like they've been told they grew up in California, they've been told in school that climate change, like I had somebody at my house the other day who said that they were terrified of climate change. Number one issue, climate change, Right.

[Podcast Host]

Did you kick them out?

[O. Skinner]

Look, my, my immediate reaction was what are your number? What are you doing about climate change? And the number one thing they're doing about climate change is composting. So like, we clearly have an issue where like the thing they're doing doesn't have anything to do with the thing that like the life's got some problems, okay? But at the end of the day, there is a cohort of people who like, they've been told that the world's ending, that they have to do X to make the world not end. And so they're going to by damn it, do X. Right. But I do think that a lot of this does stem from like government control. And you know, if you tell people that they can't use too much, I mean, look, we made a video called 2030 and it's all about what it will be like in California in a net zero world. And you see that the government like meters how much electricity you can use. You have to use only so much hot water because you basically are allowed an allotment of like carbon emissions on a given day. And so if your Kid takes a hot shower, you can't take a hot shower. Your lights turn off at the end of your day. Your electric car, you can't have a fan at the office so the company can hit their net zero targets. Right? Like it just, it is to your mind and my mind. Nothing gives the government more ability to control every aspect of your life than telling you exactly how much electricity and power you're allowed to use. You ask somebody who comes from Venezuela and you tell them what the ESG people are pushing and their immediate reaction is that's how they control your life. Because that's what they did in Venezuela. Right. There's another component of people that I think is just like, well, this is how I'm going to solve climate change. And you and I are like, you're not going to actually do that. And they're like, no, no, but we need to try. So I don't know, it's a mix.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'm with you because remember even AOC's former Chief of staff, I can't remember his name, but he basically said that the Green New Deal was a how do you control the entire economy type thing. Right.

[O. Skinner]

I mean you. Okay, so look, so like, you know, it's like we're talking just the two of us, nobody else is listening.

[Advertiser 4]

Yeah.

[O. Skinner]

You know, I think that explains a lot of this. Right? Like, but I do think you have these people who aren't thinking about the logical endpoint. And I just want to give some credit that there are chunks of them out there. I mean, I have heard. Okay, so you asked about the craziest thing in corporate America. I finally remember my craziest thing in corporate America. I have heard from friends that they were sitting in meetings at giant mega death corpse that sell lots of stuff. Okay? So like imagine a big box store that like you or I have been inside of. Okay. And somebody was legitimately advocating that to meet their net zero target, they should stop selling beef products in the grocery at their store. And somebody else is like, people like buying hamburger at our store. We're just going to remove it because then it's good for the climate. Because you know, the little reveal is that the left thinks that all the cows should go away because they can't make their math math with the cows, just to be clear. But there is literally sitting there and a person who works for a company is advocating removing all of the beef products from their entire store all across America in the name of climate justice, basically. And this person is like slack jawed, looking at Them being like, why on earth would we stop selling something to customers that they like and that we have.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[O. Skinner]

You know, but that was a discussion in corporate America in 2024 because of these. There's people who think of this ESG stuff. And that's not the AOC staffer. That's somebody who's been infected by the bug that the AOC staffer sent over the wall. Right. And they're like advocating for like a very anti consumer move at a very consumer facing company. And it was like not laughed out of the room. I mean, it was eventually laughed out of the room, but it took a while.

[Podcast Host]

How much do you think this past election was just Americans being like, I want to return to normalcy, you know, because the past four years have been totally abnormal. As you talked about, oh, you don't need air conditioning. You know, red lines are great. Or, you know, men can be women, women can be men. You know what I mean? Like, just, we've lived in a totally bizarre world for like four years. And so how much of this past election do you think was just like, get off my lawn, I want to be normal again? You know, I think it's.

[O. Skinner]

I think it describes everything. Look, the vast majority of Americans don't think of themselves as political animals. They just want, they just want life to be good and normal. Right. And if you buy what they were saying before, you know, if you buy the narratives about the last election, they are. Two elections ago, people were voting for Joe Biden because they thought he was like a return to like a bygone era and normalcy. And what they got to your point was bans on gas stoves and like making your dishwasher worse and, you know, boys and girls locker rooms. And I think a logical conclusion is whatever I voted for, it's not this. I just want, like, life to be normal. I want to be able to go to the store and buy hamburger and drive my car that is powered by gasoline and then go and actually have and like cook it at home without the government telling me what I can and can't use. Right. I think that really sums up a lot of people's views and I think it's a good thing. And I think that the pressure that you're seeing under the Trump administration against DEI and a lot of these things at the federal level is going to be so comforting to people because it'll manifest itself in just like, like life will just look normal at stores again, which would be really nice.

[Podcast Host]

We've got a quick commercial break. More with oh Skinner on the other side.

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[O. Skinner]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

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[Podcast Host]

We've seen them kind of come out the gate already and with a lot of these DEI executive orders and really sending the message that you know, this nonsense is over. We're going back to a meritocracy. We're going back to normalcy and common sense. You know, what sort of long lasting changes do you think the Trump administration can make and are they going about it the right way right now? And what else would you like to see for them to make those longer lasting changes?

[O. Skinner]

I mean they have the ability to make huge changes to the extent that it'll be the first time with the like post Students for Fair Admissions versus Harvard, which is a huge Supreme Court case that like we haven't talked about. But it's really important now the entire Department of Justice and the entire White House has US Supreme Court case law saying that like you cannot discriminate in America based on race, even if you're Harvard and even if you're trying to do it in a like altruistic way in your own words. Right? No, you're not allowed to discriminate based on race. Full stop. America gets to go back to being like a colorblind society. Now with that in their hand, they finally have the ability. It'll be the first Republican administration with the will and the law on their side to basically create pressure on corporate America. And the number one thing they can do is just follow through on the eos and investigate companies. You know, you asked a question earlier that I didn't answer, which is when one company gets a boycott, what message does that send to the other market participants? They all immediately change Their behavior. So if one or two companies in an industry get taken out into the schoolyard and just like, you know, metaphorically, you know, get smacked around by the law of anti discrimination law in America, using the Department of Justice and the Department of Civil Rights and made an example of for the crazy stuff that they've been doing, the rest of them are going to stop it, they're going to just shut it down, right? Their lawyer is going to walk around and be like, we're done. We're not doing any of that anymore. And the more of that that happens, the more corporate America gets locked into the middle, not being liberal, not being conservative, which frankly, that's a good place for it to be because it's supposed to sell things to both types of people in America. And so what I just want to see is the cadence just keeps going, right? Because it's been a focus at the beginning and now just get it implemented. And the more pressure, the more it sets corporate America free. And I think if there's four years of pressure, I don't think you're ever going to see corporate America writ large go crazy to the left anymore, because we will have trained them. There's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left. And when there's two types of pressure, you just chart a course through the.

[Podcast Host]

Middle well, from your lips to God's ear. So let's keep the pressure.

[O. Skinner]

I mean, I'm looking forward to it. You know, I, and I just, I just want people to like, be able to buy things from companies that aren't trying to tell them how to live their lives. That's a good thing if we can get there.

[Podcast Host]

And that's kind of what you guys are doing at the alliance for Consumers?

[O. Skinner]

Yeah, we fight really hard to just. Look, there was a long time where companies stopped fighting back against crazy stuff and they started being the implementers. And at the end of the day, consumers just want, you know, they want simple things. They want to be able to go to the store without getting mugged. They want there to be things on the store shelves when they get there that haven't been robbed. And they would like to not be socially lectured while they're at the store. And they would like the government to let them buy this kind of grill or that, this kind of sink or that without it being entirely dictated by AOC's chief of staff. And if you can just let them do that, they'll vote with their feet and they'll buy the things they want and they'll live the lives they want. If you live in a coastal enclave of California, you'll buy a tiny electric car and the super expensive dishwasher and, you know, maybe you'll go without air conditioning. And if you live in Plano, Texas, you'll buy a Suburban for your four kids and you'll buy a normal house with normal cars and normal dishwashers because that's the life you're choosing to live. And that's fine. I'm fine with a crazy person in coastal California living a crazy life. They're allowed to be weird. But I think most people who live in Eden Prairie, Minnesota or Plano, Texas should also be allowed to like buy a car and have three kids. I just think that's like a normal thing to do.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, like I don't want to be weird.

[O. Skinner]

Yes, most Americans, just like most Americans are busy with their kids and their lives and they're not thinking about how they could squeeze an extra 2% efficiency out of their dishwasher in exchange for an extra $3,000. That's a Nancy Pelosi problem. That's not a family in Plano, Texas problem. And along the way, the government got confused and they started making it, you know, we call it mandated progressive lifestyle choices. They're just trying to like, mandate the Nancy Pelosi Marin, California crazy lifestyle onto the rest of the country rather than just letting those people be them and the rest of the country be normal America.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, Skinner, it was great to meet you recently and great to have you on the podcast. Podcast. I really appreciate your time.

[O. Skinner]

This has been fun.

[Advertiser 6]

That was.

[Podcast Host]

Oh Skinner. Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday. But you can listen throughout the week. Until next time.

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[O. Skinner]

Keep up.

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[O. Skinner]

Lenovo. Lenovo.

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