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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Truth with Lisa Boothe: ICE, CBP Funding Fight & Trump’s Mass Deportation Plan
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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human hey, this is US Olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm.
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US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
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A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.
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So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.
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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures in the.
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Com Lenovo Lenovo.
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E
Truth with Lisa Booth where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you today. We're tackling the border crisis head on, the political games, the funding fights, voter integrity battles and how illegal immigration fuels Democrat power. We've got R.J. howman, president of the National Immigration center for Enforcement, also Mike Howe, who's on the board of that and he is also the head of the oversight project. We're going to dive into all of it. Republicans push for standalone DHS funding. Why they did that? Did they hand Democrats leverage on that? Also, even though the one big beautiful bill does fund ICE and Border Patrol, the they don't have unlimited funds. So we're going to talk about why it is important that they also receive funding in this funding fight as well. We'll discuss the SAVE act and so much more. So stay tuned for RJ Hellman and Mike. How. Well, R.J. mike, it's great to have you both on and looking forward to working with you guys. On with nice. So obviously big task in front of us on all this issue is a lot going on right now. I wanted to start with the funding fight and this shutdown with DHS funding. RJ let's start with you. Why did Republicans choose to move DHS funding as a standalone measure rather than include it in the larger omnibus?
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B
Yeah, now again, you know, Republicans have, it's finally, they're finally, I mean, again taking a stand when it comes to these spending bills. I mean, we've seen, you know, DHS has been caught almost on, you know, continuing resolution autopilot for, I mean, countless fiscal years where, you know, Dems kind of get a victory every time of keeping, you know, the money locked at a certain level. And you know, what, what kind of, you know, troubled, I think us and I not entirely speaking for Mike, but I'm sure he agrees here too is what Republicans tried to do out the gate before reconciliation happened. The one big beautiful bill that gave over $100 billion to ICE and CBP to secure the border and do mass deportations. ICE was chugging along on money that had dried up, basically a low funding level, on doing continuing resolutions of keeping it at current levels and having to shuffle money around. But then obviously in July, President Trump signed a bill that gave about 100, I think it's about 170 or so billion dollars to both ICE and CBP, build the wall and detain and deport en masse, just like the American people intended. But you know, Democrats have kind of seen that they're at A, we're at a spot right now where they are kind of using what has happened up in Minneapolis and something that they view as a political football to run with a, you know, two kind of events that, you know, as they're. They're kind of being, you know, like, seen through to the finish line in terms of getting to the bottom of what happened and if any justice, you know, needs to be served. But when they're putting ICE and CBP up there as individual funding streams, okay, that have to come to an agreement, do concessions on, it's going to be something that will set a dangerous precedent down the line. So in this situation we're kind of in right now. All right, if you're looking at it, the Democrats want again to isolate CBP and ICE away from the other functions of DHS. Now, again, DHS was stood up very quickly after 9 11. It's a big umbrella agency. You know, you almost got like a branch of. Of the military essentially in the Coast Guard or, you know, what Kristi Noem uses to get her jets through. But then you have obviously FEMA and tsa, other things like that. You know, those are all kind of shut down right now. But you got to keep in mind, CBP and ice, they may have a lot of money that they got through that reconciliation package, but that money's now going to be drained. It isn't for operational or administrative purposes. That money's not intended to pay the agents or whatever. So if Democrats get to a point where they lure Republicans down a path, okay, where they're able to fund every agency under the DHS umbrella except ICE and cbp, they'll just run the darn clock out and then take all that money that was intended to supplement and get mass deportation of border security across the finish line and actually entrench it in the future, that'll never kind of happen.
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F
So.
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B
They have to keep their foot on the ground and not give in here. Democrats are trying all they can, and we'll see what happens.
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Mike. You know, so, I mean, was that the strategy for the left then to isolate the CBP and ICE funding? You know, we've also seen them make demands for things like having to wear like name IDs and judicial warrens. And I mean, they've already asked for the. Well, they asked for the body cam. Body cams, but then that was in the one big beautiful bill. And then they said they didn't want. You know, like, they've gone back and forth about that. But I guess what. What do you think they will end up accomplishing from this? Like, what are your fears? And you know, my concerns are that Republicans have handed them some leverage with spinning off the DHS funding and dealing with it separately.
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F
Yeah, that's absolutely right. And stipulating everything RJ just said. Let me pick up to the point I think you're getting at, which I absolutely agree with. It's an attack from both the left and the quote, unquote right. The Democrats don't want ICE to exist nor cbp. Okay, that's, that's obvious. We're back to defund the police, abolish ice. They'll call it something different, but, but that's what it is from the Republican perspective. They aren't comfortable with the scope of ICE's mission at all. They want to walk back the aperture of enforcement to only violent criminals they have bought the messaging of. The Democrats have been affected by it. And so one leader, Thune, decided to set up this path due to far left pressure and quote, unquote, moderate Republican pressure. They put out ICE and CBP on a, on a limb here and at the expense of obviously all the other agencies which are going to suffer in this process. But it is a really genius tool, evil genius. That is by the Democrats knowing that they have a decent number of Republican senators who are fundamentally on their side and will make concessions to water down immigration enforcement. They don't have the guts to change the laws and to make legal pres. Or illegal presence ultimately legal, but they want to limit the amount of people who can be deported. And so that's what Thune is doing. So it presents to the public as a Democrat versus Republican kind of fight. But it's really pro wrestling. Kayfabe. A lot of Republicans are joining Democrats to hurt ice.
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B
Yeah, and at least let me add something to that real quick though too. You know, one of our biggest fears here and now it's really coming to life is listen with, I'll give you ICE as an example and you know, you know, 70, 80 billion or so money that they get through fiscal year 29. So essentially through Trump's term of supplemental money, okay, that can be used for deportations, new ICE agents and all that. If we were always kind of telling Republicans when all was kind of rosy on appropriations, when we're doing regular funding bills through the fiscal year, we're saying, don't you dare say, hey, we, we can give DHS less money because we have all this money in the bank. No, that sets a baseline going forward. When you're at A funding level and approach that becomes so hard to change. As I was saying, we're at that continuing level at DHS dating early back in the Biden administration. So if we end up at a lower level or draining money from that supplemental funding pool, that will stick. Republicans can't say, well, we don't need to do X amount of detention beds. We can just get the money from there. We, when Trump leaves office, if a Democrat happens to win, then you're going to have a low level of detention beds. You can't pay all the ICE agents you hired, you got to sell the airplanes and all that. And the Democrats will turn all your warehouse detention facilities into greased up turnstiles.
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E
You know, Mike, one thing I worry about, you know, look, a lot of politics as we all know, having, you know, you guys are currently working in D.C. politics. I've done it in the past. Well, I guess I kind of am now anyways. But point bank is I, you know, a lot of politics, it's a PR fight, right? And, and we, we see that the left and the media, they smell the blood in the water when it comes to dhs. We're seeing all these hit pieces, all these negative news articles. You know, Republicans are getting cold feet on mass, mass deportations. And there's this hit piece in Politico, Mike, talking about how that use of force incidents have surged in 2025 compared to 2024. But we're also attacks on ice agents have increased exponentially. And you know, Christy Noem has told me previously when I was co hosting Fox Insurance that we've got our customs and border patrol agents have bounties on their heads. So of course use of force is going to increase when you've got like, you know, assaults on federal law enforcement have increased like, you know, tenfold or however much it is.
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F
Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, throw the stat book out the window. It's like comparing three point NBA to like the 1930s. Right? Like there's a whole new world out there. Aces under attack, you know, literally and figuratively. Literally. Obviously the fans are being flamed by politicians and media in Washington D.C. who have basically said it's okay. Not only is it okay, but it's your, your civic duty and you're a racist if you do not participate in the obstruction and the mob attacks against ice. And so of course there are increases in use of force when you tell both an illegal population and then they're vigilante defenders that these people are literal Nazis. And so it's through the roof. Just put it in perspective. I mean, can you imagine compare this in any way that we can get statistical fidelity to January six, the attacks on ICE blow out of the water. Whatever happened that day with Capitol Police, not to mention no one on the right after that quote, unquote, if you want to call January6, whatever you call it, was trying to dox Capitol Police officers and get them killed after the fact. And so I think we need to, you know, as a country, put this way more into perspective that we haven't seen this type of vigilante, mob style justice and secessionist tactics at this scale really since the Civil War. And I mean, I say that, not say it is like that, but there's nothing that rivals it in terms of just the scale of nationwide spread and, and the organizing and the politics and the media. That's where Democrats are heading. They basically want to have two, two rules of law out there, one for the illegals and the other, you know, for everybody else who obeys the laws.
- [13:01]
E
Yeah, I mean, they love to riot when they don't have power, is basically how it goes, you know. RJ, Big concern with the midterms. You know, historically, the party in charge loses the House. So, you know, who knows if that ends up happening and then if so, what do those numbers look like? But how challenging will it be for President Trump to follow through on mass deportations if Republicans lose the House and or Senate?
- [13:26]
B
Gosh, I mean, again, the way, the way, you know, immigration has taken shape, I mean, it's essentially, you know, if you go back to Obama, then the Trump and then obviously then the Biden and then back to Trump, I mean, you know, we were screaming from the rooftops. It's something I remember I said, I was reading a quote, I was looking back of something I said when I was in Biden's transition. And it's like, you know, Biden is just going to rescind all these memos and like a crisis awaits. Well, like, what happens? That's what they did. And the crisis came in to the scale of, you know, 10 million or so illegal aliens. And we reaped it every day. Well, on day one, President Trump was able to end it at the border. But interior enforcement is a different space. Okay? It's, it's the one area where Republicans and the coastal elites or the GOP establishment types, they love it to say it when they're on the campaign trail, but they, they oppose it for a reason that they don't always like to say. And that's because they like cheap foreign labor. And I mean, we're seeing that they're pointing now to like, oh, look what happened in, in Minneapolis. Terrible, terrible, inhumane, inhumane. As they're sitting there quietly going to the White House and everything. You know, Darius saying, oh, man, if we lose our, if we lose our illegal aliens or something, we'll all starve and die. Even though some people are lactose intolerant. I don't think that would happen. But you got all these, the construction people, everything saying in South Texas, where I'm, I split my time between Fort Worth and, and, and Washington, and they're str. Saying south Texas. Oh, you're going to lose all the Republicans. Well, first, all the Hispanics in South Texas that you're attributing, you know, the losses to. You're referring to illegal aliens that can't vote, okay? A lot of Republicans get. Forget that some of the most hardliners on immigration, okay? And I know this growing up in Southern California, in Oxnard, Camarillo, where the big AG raids were, some of the most hardline people are second and third generation Mexicans, okay? They're way more hardline than a lot of people in Washington in our party. So it's like we're gravitating back towards. I think it's like a, it's like a, you know, a. We're in that GOP 2012 autopsy mode after Romney lost when, because Romney lost, we have to do an amnesty. That's the only solution. We're seeing that like, like pre the events where they're saying you gotta tone down any mass deportation stuff or we'll lose. Well, the losing, I think is inevitable because the situation we're being put in, but you can either make it worse or, or try to mitigate it. But regardless, these people are going to attribute it to being too hardline on immigration, and we will not let that happen. And we are giving an exit ramp for a very dangerous situation that's taken place. You got to do mass deportation. You got to go after these unscrupulous employers. When you have so many young kids who voted for President Trump in Mass. And they're sitting there, what the hell? I can't get a job. I can't do anything. Well, you have a lot of these employers that just say, oh, what was me? Because they refused to raise wages and hire Americans.
- [16:11]
E
Got to take a quick commercial break. More with RJ Mike on the other side.
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Hey, this is U.S. olympic gold medalist.
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Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm U.S. paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
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As athletes, our lives are about having.
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A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.
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So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.
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You learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.
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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures in the.
- [18:17]
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- [18:49]
E
President Trump won 2016 by saying Mexico wasn't sending their bus and they were sending rapists and murderers, which he got skewered over. But he was right, right? And then he won in 2024 on mass deportation. So it's like he's now won two and the popular vote, you know, two elections where immigration at least in 2024 was the second most important issue and he won all seven swing states and the popular vote. You know, Mike, I want to get with you on this because you know, you also lead the Heritage Foundation's investigative and oversight arm. You know, Tom Cotton said about the SAVE act that basically the reason the Democrats oppose it so that it would make it easier to commit voter fraud. What I worry about if you don include some sort of form of citizenship when going to vote is obviously President Biden allowed this like invasion to happen at the southern border. Millions of new illegal aliens into the United States and there's like 19 states, mostly Democrat or I think all Democrat states that allow non citizens to get licenses. And so the fear is that it is going to be easy for these illegal aliens to go out and vote if we don't include some sort of form of citizenship. What have you guys covered on that? How do you see it? Break that down for us.
- [20:02]
F
Yeah. So in the lead up to the last presidential election, the Oversight Project, which is my group, which is affiliated with Heritage, but but distinct went out and interviewed non citizens and asked that they're registered to vote. You know, what a, what grand idea. Just freaking ask them. And on camera over and over again, so many of these illegals admitted to not being legally in the United States and being registered to vote. And so it just proved the common sense thing that we all know that the system has been designed with very massive gaping loopholes and that people are taking advantage of them. And the problem is with the US Election system, there's really no existing way to vet those things. Right. You can only do so much preventative maintenance, but you can't, you know, look backwards. And that's why the 2020 election still will never be known what the final vote tallies are and why it's the lowest trusted election in American history. Now the SAVE act, critically important, of course we endorse it, of course illegals shouldn't vote, but it's like, you know, getting a penicillin shot. And instead of addressing the reason why you may or may not need penicillin shot in the first place. Right. Another way to say don't have illegals in the country like we don't. I want the SAVE Act. Yes. But if you really want to solve the problem of illegals potentially being able to vote, get the illegals out of the country in the first place. And so that's what I'm focused on. And I think Republicans who will sit there and say, yeah, we have enough votes for the SAVE act, but all that, we're not getting rid of the speaking filibuster, we can't do that, think they're going to check the box with the base and move on and then quietly oppose the mass deportation policy of Trump, which is happening right now. And to answer your question that you post RJ just build out a little bit more. We definitely will lose midterms. We as in the Republicans, if President Trump does not achieve his second campaign promise out of 20, number one was secure the border. Number two, as big as mass deportation. Last year he deported about 300,000 with the real numbers and deportations, not the funny numbers. You'll see we were promised over a million. He needs to get over a million this year. And that's the only way to turn what the establishment Republicans want to see as this bad baggage into a positive, to do what the people voted for him to do without fear or favor or apology, even if that means telling the big donors and his special interest group, sorry, but I'm the drain the swamp guy who was elected as the first populist takeover of this country probably since Andrew Jackson, to oppose corporate interests, to oppose special interests and to oppose illegal immigration and all that being said, should he fail to do that, which we're not going to, you know, give, give any chance to happen because we're going to push as hard as we can to support the president in carrying this out. His ability still to do it will remain unaffected if Democrats take Congress because of the money of the one big beautiful bill. The money is there right now. It's the political will that's not there to target the enforcement operations on work sites, places with 50 or more illegals instead of these onesie twosie criminal illegal aliens that give everyone the warm and fuzzies to talk about on FOX News. So that's, that's how I see it.
- [23:04]
E
Let's not. Fox News is great. So let's RJK on.
- [23:08]
B
Yeah, let me, let me add, let me just add real quick into that, too. It's listening. You know, there doesn't need. There was an interesting piece out there where I know there's somebody on substack, you know, on a conservative like us, kind of went around to folks in Ohio, you know, who support mass deportations, you know, want worksite enforcement and all that. And a lot of them were kind of taken aback. It was like off putting all the. The charade that was going on up in Minneapolis, where Bavino's out there throwing, you know, tear gas grenades and all that and going for a spectacle on the street. Now, that spectacle on the street, I'll say I was doing anything wrong by being out there doing that surge. However, when you're kind of going for a spectacle, doing these standoffs, you're kind of taking away your ability to quietly do enforcement ops and raids. A lot of these ICE guys, you know, they're kind of frustrated because if you're going after a big criminal or something, you do like two weeks of prep, you stop for a photo op.
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F
You got to do it quietly.
- [24:03]
B
And one thing that was interesting that we noticed up there is when kind of Tom went up there, was quietly negotiating with a lot of these sanctuary counties, which is absolutely huge, getting in there to their face and making sure that they comply with detainers. You had some tweets coming out from blue sky, you know, the opposite of Trump's truth platform, saying pleading for help, like, the surge is still going on. ICE is still here in the community. But it wasn't on tv, so it wasn't ginning up so much crazy opposition or whatever. If. If no one and the leadership at the time, I'll put it. Put it mildly, right? When President Trump took office, they shouldn't have put on a charade of sorts of. Of doing how many deportations we did every day. And all that were just mass deportation. We're doing it right now. What they needed to say is, shit, the ICE was abolished from within, okay? Under Biden, our border was wide open. They should have went in front of a house that they wanted to raid, but the illegals left. They couldn't get there in time.
- [24:55]
F
Why?
- [24:55]
B
Because they needed more resources. Well, now we have the resources. We have the swelled up, you know, agent amount. We got more detention beds coming. We got more planes. You don't need to put on the show. The numbers speak for themselves. Whether the regular deportations or self deportations, Americans will feel the effect. They don't need to watch it on Fox News every night.
- [25:15]
E
You know, RJ about that with Tom Homan, you know, working with what different I Mean, it would make a huge difference and it would also solve everyone's problem if they just allowed Tom Holman, if they allowed ice, if they allowed our federal law enforcement to go pick up these illegal aliens at the jails. I mean, that's what they've been doing in Texas, where, my understanding, you know, the bulk of the deportations have come from.
- [25:41]
B
Yeah, well, but it's. Well, when you look at. Too, it's when you're seeing, you know, 300 or 400 ICE agents. Okay, are leaving Minnesota or the Minneapolis area. Well, that could be a good thing. You could argue. Okay, get the CBP guys are going back down to the border. Remember, under President Trump, there was a little surge that happened in his first term. We gotta remain vigilant down there. Even though the policies that drove a lot of it under Biden was rescinded, Things happen. You got some countries that still aren't complying with removals and all that. But now these ice, there's still ICE field offices, you know, up in Minneapolis or whatever. But these agents now can go back to where they were and join a swelled up workforce and go after more legal aliens. Mike makes the point. He was saying the other day, I'll turn over to him. I'm like, sanctuary counties, that's way more important than a sanctuary city. Counties are broad, even in the urban area. I think Tom was negotiating with the one up in Minneapolis. The more counties we can get, the more to no longer be a sanctuary and fight for compliance quietly, not just throwing grenades out there, wearing your mask in the street or whatever, to hammer out these agreements and do narrow, like, focused removal efforts at every illegal you cross. And they're eligible for removal. Of course you deport them, but you remain vigilant and you do it in a manner where, hey, we ain't looking for attention. We're racking them up and delivering to the American people and acting in accordance with the law.
- [26:58]
E
You know, Mike, I want to end with this. You know, the way I see it is you look ahead at the 2030 Census projections and Democrats are in. Blue states are going to lose electoral power, both in the House with some of these congressional seats as well as electoral college votes when it comes to the apportionment, because we've seen this mass migration out of these blue states to red states as a result of failed policies. I mean, that's really why these Democrats are opposing the deportation of all these people. I mean, we've already seen Congressman Yvette Clark say previously that she needs more migrants for redistricting purposes. Walk us through what that means and why the Democrats would want these illegal aliens in their districts and their states.
- [27:43]
F
Yeah, so very simply, like, the Constitution counts, you know, under the current reading of it, the total population, regardless of whether one was a citizen or not, for determining political representation. So while they can't vote, they hold political power in changing the electoral map in a way that favors illegal aliens. All that being said, I think the Republicans miss the point when they prioritize this as a motivation of Democrats too much. Yes, it is a few seats that go swing every 10 years or so, but this is like on their master plan list of top 10 things that they realize illegal immigration can do to undermine the existing war of the United States. It's at the bottom of that list. And so I say that, not say it's not like a critical problem. It is, but the real problems are way more clear and present. You don't have to wait every 10 years for them to happen. It's the decay of basically every institution, all the government services. It also creates, you know, political constituencies that are not illegal aliens. Look at the people that are rioting out of Minneapolis or wherever. Those people largely aren't illegal aliens. They're galvanized individuals, psychological problems that are preyed upon by some of the worst themes in American politics, which relate to race and, you know, everything else that's out there. So Democrats need illegal immigration for a lot of reasons. Census redistricting certainly is one. But it's not on their top 10 list. Pretty bad when we're talking about, you know, the swinging of 10 potential seats in Congress if that doesn't even crack the top 10 list.
- [29:16]
E
All right, well, I think we solved all the immigration problems, so. Mike.
- [29:20]
B
RJ oh, crap. I think it's all.
- [29:24]
E
It's all situated now, the last 30 minutes because of this conversation. So appreciate you guys coming on. Thanks, guys.
- [29:31]
B
Yeah, thank you. Of course, Appreciate it.
- [29:33]
E
That was R.J. hellman, president of the National Immigration center for Enforcement. Also Mike Howell, who is on the board of that. He also also leads the oversight project. Appreciate you guys at home for listening. Every Tuesday and Thursday. You can listen throughout the week. I also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time.
- [29:49]
D
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Youm see it instantly. It's Coldwater Creek, the mark of exceptional workmanship and signature touches inspired by a Mountain west heritage. Distinctive styles created from quality fabric silhouettes perfected with just the right drape. Feel good fits offering ease of movement and thoughtful details to elevate your look. For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com shop the new spring collection at 20% off $75 or more with code iheart20. This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest. With your guardrails in place. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on what your kids are spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk free@greenlight.com iheart this is an iheart podcast.
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Guaranteed human.