← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Is America Facing an Era of Political Violence and Assassinations with John Lott
00:45:26
Loading summary
Transcript55 lines
- [00:00]
Lisa Booth
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Jacob Goldstein
There's nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [01:05]
John Lott
Ah come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
- [01:09]
Commercial Announcer 1
Still using yesterday's tech upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 carbon ultralight, ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around.
- [01:23]
John Lott
Whoa, this thing moves.
- [01:25]
Commercial Announcer 1
Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search@lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. As a sports fan, you want the best way to watch your favorite teams at home and now you can experience game day in all its glory with a Samsung TV. Right now buy an eligible Samsung Glare Free TV and get one year of ESPN Unlimited for free through October 23rd. Not valid for existing ESPN Select ESPN Unlimited or Disney Hulu ESPN bundle subscribers at Samsung or Best Buy only. Buy Samsung Glare Free TV and get 12 months of ESPN Unlimited standalone service. Additional terms apply. See samsung.com sportstvs and stream.espn.com this message.
- [02:13]
Jacob Goldstein
Is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, investors and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today@greenlight.com iheart that's greenlight.com iheart this is Jacob.
- [02:44]
Goldstein from what's yous Problem? Business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing. Slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting, all linked and talking to each other. Check out odoo@o-o o.com that's o d o o.com welcome to the Truth with.
- [03:29]
Lisa Booth
Lisa Booth where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you Today. We're joined by John Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research center, to tackle the rising concerns about political violence and assassinations in America. Are we entering a dangerous new era? Is one political side more prone to violence than the other? We'll also dive into the data on mass shooters, their mental health, and why experts often miss the warning signs despite many already being under psychiatric care. Plus, we'll explore the role of gun free zones in mass shootings and whether transgender related violence is on the rise. Stay tuned for a really jam packed interview with tons of research and facts with John Lott of the Crime Prevention Research Center. Well, John Lott, it's great to have you on the show. You know, obviously, particularly in your area of expertise, there's so much disinformation and intentional and misinformation that's out there. I think you know, one thing and you know, we were talking about this before we got started. Obviously we're all just like extremely heavy hearted with what happened to Charlie and just really saying that there's so much evil in the world and you know, we always knew it was there. But just to have it be that profound, you know, to lose a really good man who, you know, we were lucky enough to know who loved this country, loved his wife, loved his kids, loved God, and yet they killed him, you know. But it really has led to this conversation that people are having about concerns of just like assassination culture and political violence in the country. Do you see things heading in a direction where that's more commonplace or kind of like what are you seeing and what are your takeaways and thoughts? And just this really heavy hearted few days that we've had here as a country.
- [05:27]
John Lott
Right. I guess kind of the response to Charlie's assassination has made me very concerned from the left. You know, you have somebody like Obama, you know, who made comments a few days after the assassination where you start off by saying, you know, we should all have sympathy for, you know, a young man who has a family who's been murdered. But then he goes on and he just repeats these horrible lies about Charlie. Just basically, you know, saying that Charlie was saying that Michelle Obama and Justice Jackson don't have the brain processing power. You know, what he was talking about was that if you have affirmative action and don't judge people on the merits and you judge them on their skin color, you're going to have some people who are going to get through that aren't going to be the brightest people. I don't know how you can argue with that. It's either true or it's not true. It's. He's not saying everybody who's black or a black woman is, is stupid. He's not saying anything even remotely similar to that. He's saying, he's saying that are we going to have a society based on merit where we're going to be sure we're going to get the best people to go and do the jobs or whatever. In fact, you go and you listen to some of his discussions. He says, Look, 75% of the NBA is black. Do you think we should limit it to 13% because that's black's share of the population? Do you think the quality of a basketball play would improve if we limited blacks to 13% there? Obviously not. So he was just saying, you're going to, when you, when you base decisions on people's skin color rather than their quality there, you're gonna end up making mistakes in terms of not getting the best people there. You know, and there are other comments. I mean, it's just despicable, you know, referring to Charlie as being sexist and what have you. You know, I don't. You, you figure somebody like Obama must understand the false claims that were being made by him there, but yet it didn't stop him from, from making them. And I, it's, you know, and it's not just him. I mean, you have Jimmy Kimmel who end up saying, you know, that this was some right winger that was doing it. I mean, this is Monday, the Monday after the Wednesday assassination. You just had, you know, the governor for Utah was on all the Sunday talk shows talking about the evidence that was there. You'd had news media and other reports that have come out describing the individual's views as being leftist and being, you know, being in a relationship with a trans individual and himself being gay. You know, I don't know what the deal is there, but you know, it's not just them. I mean, you look at kind of the Anti Defamation League report that's come out, basically.
- [09:00]
Lisa Booth
I was going to ask you about that because the left sort of seizes on this report like where they say, you know, the majority of right wing extremists were responsible for a right wing extremist responsible for the majority of extremists. Related. Well, it's even more decade.
- [09:13]
John Lott
Yeah, they're saying, they're saying that over the three years. They make a big deal about this in the report. They say over the three years from 2022 to 2024, all, all of the extremist murders in the United States were done by right wingers. All of them. And, you know, it's just crazy. You know, the thing is, does the media. I, I know I've dealt with reporters over the years, 98% of them or 99%, just look at the, you know, the press release that's associated. They don't actually look at the data. So you have individuals that they don't classify as having any type of political views or as being right wingers. You have people like the Nashville school shooter. I don't know how anybody can read the Nashville school shooter and, and not classify her as a left winger. You know, she goes, first of all, she's trans, okay? She hates Catholics, she hates whites, she hates wealthy people, she hate capitalists, okay? And you know, I don't know, you know, it's just. And, or you have somebody like the Colorado Springs mass murderer. Now, he shot up a gay nightclub, all right, which is true, but. And so therefore they say he's anti gay, so that automatically makes him right winger. Well, the thing is, when you actually go and look into this guy, first of all, he was trans, okay? His pronouns were they and them. Obviously he didn't feel that gays were properly, you know, giving, you know, trans their due, that that was there. He apparently may have actually had some personal conflict with a gay who was there. But, you know, I look at this guy and it's like, are we serious? We're going to really classify this guy as a right winger? I mean, I don't know, maybe there's a lot of trans individuals out there who are right wingers, but I guess I just haven't Noticed them too much. It's just, you know, you look at other ones that are there. Basically, if you're. If you're a white supremacist, they assume that you're a right winger. Well, you know, there's a number of. Of white supremacists in their data set there that the reason why they're white supremacists is because they're environmentalists. So the Buffalo mass murderer at the supermarket in 2022, they classify him as a right winger. The guy hated blacks because they were having too many kids, and he was upset that people who were having kids were damaging the environment. He didn't think anybody should have kids, but he was particularly upset that blacks were having it. He hated capitalists. He blamed capitalists for all the destruction in the environment. You know, you have other ones that are there, like the El Paso mass murderer. This guy. It's just amazing. This guy says that he agreed completely with the New Zealand mass murderer, basically just said you could copy the New Zealand mass murderers manifesto, and he agreed with it. I know the media wanted to classify the New Zealand mosque shooter who killed like 49 people as a right winger. I got censored on Twitter and Facebook, got my accounts closed because I tried to point out, you know, if you actually read the guy's manifesto, his ideal form of government was communist China. The guy called himself a socialist. He was an environmentalist. Also. He was upset that minorities were having too many kids and damaging the environment. Now, maybe, you know, a lot, maybe I'm just very isolated, but I don't know a lot of conservatives that are upset about people having too many kids. Right. And so, you know, it just.
- [13:45]
Lisa Booth
Well, I mean, you had the same week that, you know, you had the. In the same week period of time, you had, like on September 16, you had Tyler Robinson in his first court appearance in Utah's 4th District Court for where obviously he was charged for the assassination of Charlie Kirk and is, you know, facing, you know, will face a hearing in a court date for that. And then Luigi Mangione, on the same day, appeared in the New York State court in Manhattan. And then ongoing, you had the Ryan Ruth trial for trying to assassinate Donald Trump. I mean, that's three left wingers who do not share or views on the world. You know, all with court activity around the same exact time period. Yet, you know, they try to say that it's the right that are, you know, are committing violence.
- [14:35]
John Lott
Right. Well, we just this last weekend, we had this guy in Sacramento shoot up the ABC station There. And, and the guy, you know, hated Trump. You know, you look at these things, you know, the big thing the, the left wants to say is on both sides or it's all the right. And they'll point to things like the, you know, about the only ones they can point to is like this state legislator who was murdered in Minnesota. Well, as, as Greg Gutfeld has correctly pointed out, there was no demonization of this woman or her husband by people on the right beforehand. You know, nobody knew who she was. This guy who murdered her was a complete kook. I mean, but if you're going to take him at all seriously in this, he had no Kings flyers, had hundreds of no King flyers in his car because, you know, it was the left's protest at that time against Trump. He says, you know, in his writings that he was murdering her because, and he had a list of other people, but he was doing this to help Tim Waltz. Now, I'm, I'm not going to go and classify this guy because he wants to go and help Tim Waltz as a Democrat, but he, it's hard for me to look at those things and say, yeah, no, it was somebody on the right trying to kill somebody on the left. I, I want examples, you know, and the thing is, just in general, as, as Erica Kirk was pointing out in her talk, where was the violence on the right after Charlie was killed? You know, after George Floyd or others that you have there? We have these riots that occur all the time. And it just, you know, I suppose what people point to is like January 6th as examples of that. But, you know, first of all, everybody who did any type of violence there was spent long periods of times, at least 42 months in, in prison. So they were all punished. But you and anybody who did violence should have been punished. 42 months, though. I mean, that seems like a pretty substantial prison term to begin with for that. They didn't kill anybody, you know, but compare it to something like the Lafayette Square riot that had occurred in the summer of 2020 there, where you had like 150 law enforcement officers who were injured. You had people scaling the White House fence. That's the reason why they had to take Trump into a secure area, because people were trying, you know, they talk about insurrections. I don't know, trying to storm the White House. Seems like something of an insurrection. How many, how many prosecutions did they have for people that did that? Zero. How many people went to prison for that? Zero. And, you know, you have things going back to the 2017 inauguration or the Republican National Convention in 2020, when they had the thing at the White House there, then you had people being. You had like 50 Trump supporters who had to be hospitalized in the 2017 inauguration thing. How many prosecutions did you have for that? Zero. How many prosecutions did you have for the people that were attacked for the Republican convention type thing when Trump did the talk at the White House? Zero. So it just. But nobody brings up those types of things. It seems to me that there's a real imbalance there.
- [18:35]
Lisa Booth
Well, yeah, and, you know, you had this shooter recently at the Sky Meadow Country Club in New Hampshire yelling, know free Palestine. Right? Like, that's not something that we subscribe to on the Right. You know, I wanted to ask you, you know, it seems like there is a trend at least, you know, maybe it's doesn't, you know, hold up with the statistics of just like transgender related violence. Obviously, Tyler Robinson, or at least her knowledge, was not trans, but his roommate and, you know, reported lover was transgender. What do we know about transgender violence in this country?
- [19:19]
John Lott
Right. So if you look at all the mass public shootings in the United States from 2018 on, about 5% of those mass public shootings. So mass public shooting is four more people killed in a public place, not part of some other type of crime like a gang fight over drug turf or a robbery. They make about 5. They make up 5%. The thing is, you have to compare it to their share of the population. If you take kind of the average of several polls from the government and Gallup and whatever, you get about 7.3% of the population. And that's probably a high, because that's kind of more. More of that is kind of weighted towards more recently that they've been asking poll questions on that. And so, you know, you're talking about their share of these attacks. It's about seven times their share of the population. You know, that's pretty far out there now. You know, we're not talking about a huge number of cases, but there's a number of other cases where they weren't as successful, fortunately. You know, like the Minneapolis case that we just had where the person succeeded in murdering two people, wounding 17 others that were there. But look, to me, it's not particularly surprising that they're involved in these cases at high rates. Because one thing, if anybody, if you read the diaries and manifestos for these murderers, what you see is a very consistent pattern. You find people who are suicidal, who feel unappreciated, who feel put upon in some way Those are if you read the diaries and manifestos for the Nashville school shooter or the, or the Colorado spring shooter or the guy in Minneapolis or some of these others in Maryland and other places, they all fit, that they're all depressed, they're very suicidal. They feel, you know, either that there's some genocide against trans individuals that are there or that they feel that they've been put upon in some way and they want to get attention. These guys check all those boxes and what you find is with these guys, these mass public shooters generally is they're suicidal, they want to get attention. They know the more people they kill, the more media attention that they're going to get. And so they go to places where they know their victims aren't going to be able to go and defend themselves. Gun free zones. And they explicitly state that they're going to these gun free zones because they may be crazy, but they're not stupid. They know if they go to a place like that, they're going to be able to kill more people and get more media attention. The, the Minneapolis mass murder fit all those boxes. The Nashville shooter fit all those boxes. And the, you know, you look at these individuals and where they pick it, I have to tell you, it's one of my biggest pet peeves with media bias because the media will go and, and talk about the diaries and manifestos for these individuals, but it just, they just always completely refuse to go and ex and talk about why these guys pick the targets that they do. I would think that would be newsworthy.
- [23:13]
Lisa Booth
What percentage of these shootings take place in gun free zones?
- [23:17]
John Lott
Well, you find about 92% of them do. And, and on our website we have literally statements from dozens of these mass public shooters where they explicitly explain why they picked the target. The guy in, in Minneapolis for example, he had a long discussion about it. He basically said two things. One is they'll go and they'll say, the media will go and say this individual was lionizing and talking a lot about other school shooters that were there. And that's true, but his whole discussion about them was what he could learn from them in terms of how to do these attacks, you know, so I'll give you one of his quotes. He says, quote, I recently heard rumors that James Holmes, the Aurora theater shooter, may have chosen venues that were, quote, gun free zones, end quote. I would probably aim the same way. Holmes wanted to make sure his victims would be unarmed. That's why I and many others like schools so much, at least for me. I am focused on them. Adam Lanza is my reason. End quote. And then he also, he has a discussion there about the time of day. He didn't want to do it in the morning when people were dropping off their kids at school, and he didn't want to do it in the afternoon when they're picking them up. You know why? Because he was worried that maybe one of the parents might have a permanent concealed handgun and might use it to stop him. He explicitly talks about that. You look at the Nashville school shooter. Even the day of the. The murders that occurred there where she murdered six people, the Nashville police chief held a press conference where he said he had read her diary and that she had talked about going after other targets but had decided not to because there are people with guns. Like the Green Hill malls allowed people to carry concealed handguns. That might stop her and prevent her from killing as many people as she wanted to kill. And so she picked the school that was there. But even though the police chief went through that in his press conference, you will look in vain for any media coverage on that. Instead you have things like after the Minneapolis case where, you know, this killer explicitly talks about why he did it, they'll go, you know, media discussions that will say, well, well, maybe he did it because his mom used to work at the school. Possible, could be, I don't know. But he doesn't say that. But what he does. So they're guessing, they put in the fact that he may have done it for. Because his mom worked there. But the stuff that he says for the actual reason that he does it, they ignore. And I, I don't, you know, it. I don't know how they can do that, because as I say, it seems to me that that would be very newsworthy to go and do it. But, you know, even going back to Columbine, it wasn't as clear cut there. But you still had information. You know, Dylan Klebold. The New York Times had a story on their front page where they mentioned that Dylan Klebold and his dad were very strongly against the concealed carry law that was going through the Colorado state legislature at the time. Doug Dean, who was the majority leader for the state House, and it actually, I was actually in Colorado the morning of, of the shooting because the Colorado legislature had asked me to go and talk to legislators there. Doug had invited me out, and the concealed carry bill there would have allowed teachers and staff, people with concealed carry permits to carry on school property. According to Doug, I was told that Klebold had written both his state House member and state senator strongly opposing the bill and particularly was upset about the fact that teachers and staff would be able to go and carry. Now when almost nobody brings up is he the attack at Columbine occurred literally just a few hours before the before the final vote was scheduled in the state legislature. Is it just a coincidence? I don't have the explicit statement from them that I have for others, but it surely is interesting. And you know, we have, you know, the same time we have this Charlie Kirk thing. We had this attack at this school in Colorado and people ignore the fact that this person there was one school resource officer that was divided between different schools there. The killer there waited until the school resource officer left. He literally saw the school resource officer leaving the one school to go to another school. He was waiting outside the school until the school resource officer left and then he went in and did his shooting.
- [28:54]
Lisa Booth
We've got to take a quick commercial break. More with John Lott on the other side.
- [28:59]
Jacob Goldstein
Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? WashablesOfAs.com has your back Featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anna Bay sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back Upgrade now@washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skin care brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningfulbeauty.com as a sports fan.
- [31:01]
Commercial Announcer 1
You want the best way to watch your favorite teams at home. And now you can experience game day in all its glory with a Samsung TV. Right now buy an eligible Samsung Glare Free TV and get one year of ESPN Unlimited for free through October 23rd. Not valid for existing ESPN Select ESPN Unlimited or Disney Hulu ESPN bundle subscribers at Samsung or Best Buy only buy a Samsung Glare Free TV and get 12 months of ESPN Unlimited standalone service. Additional terms apply. See samsung.com sportstvs and stream.espn.com this message.
- [31:30]
Jacob Goldstein
Is sponsored by Greenlight with school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, investors and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today@greenlight.com iheart that's greenlight.com iheart this is Jacob.
- [32:01]
Goldstein from what's yous Problem? When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. ODU solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at O D O o dot com. That's O D O o dot com.
- [32:35]
Lisa Booth
You wrote in one of your columns that more than half of mass public shooters over the last 25 years were already under the care of ment professionals.
- [32:44]
John Lott
Right?
- [32:45]
Lisa Booth
So why are they still able to get, you know, weapons and you know.
- [32:50]
John Lott
You know, kind of because none of these. Right. You know, because none of these mental health care professionals identified any of these mass murderers as a danger to themselves or others prior to their attack. And in fact, there's a whole academic literature out there that explains why they're unable to identify these individuals. Basically, it comes down to the fact that this is so rare that on average, people with mental health care problems are less violent, on average than the general population. They're more likely to be victims. But there are other problems you have. Something like schizophrenia, for example, is one of the examples that are given in the literature. As I say, there's a lot of academic papers by psychologists and psychiatrists explaining why they fail to identify these individuals. And, you know, if you look at it, they'll say something like schizophrenia. There's at least 3.5 million people in the United States with schizophrenia since 2018. There's been one mass public shooter that has had schizophrenia. You know, so if I. The, the type of example they'll give us is, let's say you were to go to a mental health care expert and say, identify the thousand people out of these 3.5 million plus that are most likely to engage in one of these types of attacks. Even if, even if one of the 1000 is the guy that did it, you'd still be wrong 999 times out of that, and you may not even get the one guy that's there. And so that's what makes him reticent. But I think there's a more basic problem there, and that is mental health is based on the idea that people who have problems voluntarily come forward seeking help. And so they assume that the people who they're talking to are being honest with them about what their feelings are. And you see this time after time after time when you read the records on these things or read the diaries and manifestos. So, for example, the Buffalo supermarket shooter, that individual had been in high school, he had, was asked by the teacher what he was going to be doing over the summer after graduation. And he said, you know, I'm going to find a school that has summer school and shoot it up and kill as many people as I can, and. And then I'm going to commit suicide. Well, obviously, the teacher was very concerned, and so she flagged him. And he was taken in for a psychiatric evaluation, held there for 20 hours at the hospital, and had to go and see two mental health care professionals. And when he was asked about his comment, he said, look, it was a stupid joke. I shouldn't have said it. I'm sorry, I won't make jokes like that again. And both the mental health care professionals concluded that he was just joking and that he was sorry for doing it, and there's no problem. And so he was released. And you look at Somebody like the Santa Barbara mass murderer. He was actually seeing the head of child psychiatric services at Los Angeles Children's Hospital, somebody who's an internationally recognized expert on youth violence. His God knows how many dozens of peer reviewed papers that he's published on this issue. And yet the problem is, is that this guy, if you read his, his manifesto, he says he would have to be an idiot to go and answer honestly the questions that the, that this mental health care professional was asking. When the mental health care professional asks, are you suicidal? He said of course I said no. He said, do you have any thoughts of violence? And he says, of course the guy says no. He says, if you want to go and commit this crime, why are you going to go and tell one of these mental health care professionals who will then stop you from doing that if that's really what you want to do? You. That's what he says in his manifesto. That's there. And you see that time after time. And these other ones, these guys, these guys may be stupid, you know, I'm sorry, they may be crazy, but they're not stupid. And so, I mean, I can't tell you the number of times I've read in these diaries and manifestos where they take delight. It just fooling these mental health care professionals that they have. You know, there's been a lot of.
- [37:34]
Lisa Booth
Talk about SSR or ssris.
- [37:38]
John Lott
Right.
- [37:39]
Lisa Booth
Is there evidence to back up that, you know, these mass murders or, you know, are on them or what do you think about that line of argument?
- [37:52]
John Lott
Right, Yeah. I mean, this is something that people made for years. I know Robert Kennedy's saying that he's going to look into this. I have to tell you, I can't tell you that when I've heard people say, well, 75% of these mass public shooters were on these drugs or 90% or whatever. And I'll go and I'll reach out to them. I say, can you give me the data on this? I'd love to look at the data. And I never have gotten any data from these people. Now, I'm not too surprised because of the fact that you're talking about privacy type rules. So we are, you know, I don't know how they would find out whether somebody was on these drugs or not. But there's other problems there with this. I mean, as you mentioned, about half of these mass murderers were actually seeing mental health care professionals. So it's in theory possible, even though the, even though the mental health professionals did not identify these individuals as a danger themselves or others, and Often didn't even identify them as being suicidal, you know, which would have been a danger to themselves. They never did. But you know, there's an issue with this and, and I know Robert Kennedy's put out an exam, you know, several examples of people that were on those types of drugs before they committed it. But if you read the discussion that he put out, first of all, one of them wasn't a mass murderer. It was just the guy killed his wife a couple days after he started the drugs. But all, all the three cases that are, there are ones who had either just started using the drug or had just switched the dosage. And here's the problem with that, and that is if you talk to people in the mental health care community, they'll say, yeah, you know, it's possible that these drugs can create psychic psychiatric breaks, but they're short lived. You know, you're talking about something that's days, maybe a week or something like that. And these guys are planning these attacks at least six months in advance. You know, the Sandy Hook murder was planning his attack for over two and a half years prior to the attack. So something that, you know, maybe it might trigger the timing that they do it but doesn't trigger whether or not they were interested in doing these types of attacks to begin with. And I have to tell you, I've, I can't tell you how much time I've spent trying to go and look through the diaries and manifestos for these mass murderers which are obviously written over a long period of time. And I don't see a change in these guys behavior or thought processes. You know, they're from day one they're planning on doing these attacks. They're focused on it. There's just like the Minneapolis one or these others, they're focused on, on trying to, you know, you know, learn from these other attacks that are there. You know, the Sandy Hook mass murder, he did what the police described as a doctoral dissertation where he had looked at mass public shootings over the previous 40 years. And, and according to one police report, in order to prove to himself that he could get more media coverage by killing more people, he had apparently graphed out the relationship between the number of people killed in attacks and the amount of media coverage that they had gotten. His goal was apparently to go and kill more people than the Norway killer who had killed more, shot to death more people than any mass public shooter in the United States. He had shot to death 67 people, ignoring the bombing deaths that were there. And because he wanted to get More media attention. Now, one thing I'll mention that I have no proof for, but I just an educated guess on my part is that the reason why he picked the school also fit in with the media stuff, that killing elementary school kids he probably thought would get, you know, more horror on the part of people and get him more attention than going and shooting up some other type of venue. And I've seen that in other places. Though I can't say for sure that the Sandy Hook killer picked the elementary school because of that. But it surely fits in with the focus that you just see over and over again. I mean, I can't tell you how many times when you read these diaries and manifestos, these people will explicitly say things like if I could only kill more people than such and such did, I can get even more media attention. And just one thing I want to make clear here and that since it kind of fits in with something that you brought up earlier and that is these gun free zones, we have to be clear, looking at people, mental problems, we're not going to be able to identify these individuals beforehand. And so the question is, what's the backup plan? Okay. And you know, and in order to figure out what the backup plan is, we, because we're not going to, mental health professionals themselves say they're not going to be able to identify these individuals. So and in order to figure out what the backup plan is, you have to go and look to see what these guys are trying to accomplish. And what they're trying to accomplish is media attention. Now I'm not going to argue we should get rid of the first Amendment. I would have no idea how to even rewrite it. I have no desire to try to do that. But there are other things that we can do that can go and reduce the media coverage. What you know is that these individuals, time after time after time believe that there's a link between the number of people they kill and the amount of media coverage that they're going to get. So you have to reduce the number of people they're going to kill. And, and when you were talking about the gun free zone stuff, these guys pick gun free zones because they know they're going to be able to go and kill more people there. And so what you need to do is rather than having a sign from the school that says the school is a gun free zone, have a sign in front of the school that says warning, select teachers and staff at this school are carrying concealed and will use their guns to go and protect students and others that Are there? You know, we have well over 10,000 schools in the United States that have armed teachers and staff. Okay, 20, over 20 states allow them to do it. There are different rules. You know, some make it easier. You know, Texas, you have about 40% of the schools. In Utah and New Hampshire, any teacher that has a concealed carry permits allowed to carry. You know, Utah and New Hampshire basically had this for many decades. You know, the thing is, there has never been a school shooting, an attack where anybody's been killed or wounded inside any of these schools that have armed teachers and staff. All the attacks have occurred at places where teachers and staff aren't allowed to carry. Now, one debate that I have with conservatives, and I disagree with them a lot on this, and that is a lot of, and even friends like Ted Cruz and stuff like that, they want to go and put one uniform school resource officer in each school. And my plea to them is, if you're going to do that, please don't put the person in uniform. Have them be the PE coach or blend in as a staff member so they're not identified the problem. Because we've had plenty of shootings where there's been an officer. We've just finished a big study on this type of thing that can go into. But the thing is, these attackers have real tactical advantages. When you're talking about somebody in uniform, if. If there's one person there in uniform and he's the only person with a gun, then the attackers can wait until the person leaves the area. You know, like the example with the Colorado shooting that I talked about earlier. Or they can move on to another target themselves. Or if they're going to insist on doing that particular target, who do you think they shoot first? They're going to shoot the guy in uniform, the one guy that they know has a gun. The one question I often ask people, I say, look, we have air marshals on planes. Do you think an air marshal on a plane ought to be in uniform? Does anybody think that? I haven't met anybody who thinks that. And it's pretty obvious why you would never put an air marshal in a uniform. And the reason is, is that if you put the air marshal in the uniform and you do happen to have a terrorist on the plane there, who do you think the terrorist is going to take out first? He's going to take out the air marshal. So you don't want to give the terrorists that tactical advantage that's there. And the same thing is true with putting somebody in a school and the advantage that you have with teachers carrying concealed is that the attacker has no clue who it is that they have to worry about that's there. I mean, nationwide, outside of California, New York, you have about 10% of the adult population with a concealed carry permit. But you go to a restaurant, you go to a movie theater, you go to a grocery store, you go to any place and there's a very high probability that somebody nearby you is caring. You have no idea who it is. If you were to go into a restaurant and start shooting people and they allow people to carry, you have to worry that there's somebody behind you or to the side or somebody who's walking in right behind you. That is a concealed carry permit and they're going to be able to stop you before you do very much.
- [48:25]
Lisa Booth
Quick break. Stay with us. If you like what you're hearing, please share on social media or maybe send it to a friend or a family member.
- [48:34]
Jacob Goldstein
Let's be real Life happens. Kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep up@washablesofas.com Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out so you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free, mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well I don't know about you but like I never liked being told oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like why even bother saying that?
- [49:45]
Lisa Booth
Why don't you just say you look.
- [49:46]
Jacob Goldstein
Great at any age? Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningfulbeauty.com.
- [50:07]
Commercial Announcer 1
As a sports fan, you want the best way to watch your favorite teams at home. And now you can experience game day in all its glory with a Samsung Super Big tv. It's super big and super clear giving you a closer view than the sidelines. Even day games look great on select Samsung TVs with glare free tech that eliminate distracting reflections when the sun shines through the window. And if you want to follow every last bit of action, you can watch multiple games at once on their super big TVs with the all new ESPN app. Right now you can buy an eligible Samsung Glare Free TV and get one year of ESPN Unlimited for free through October 23rd. Not valid for existing ESPN. Select ESPN Unlimited or Disney Hulu ESPN Bundle subscribers at Samsung or Best Buy only. Buy a Samsung glare free TV and get 12 months of ESPN Unlimited standalone service. Additional terms apply. See samsung.com sportstvs and stream.espn.com this is.
- [50:55]
Jacob Goldstein
Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out odoo@odoo.com that's o d o.
- [51:27]
John Lott
O.Com have you ever wiped with a piece of dry single ply toilet paper and wondered is this as good as it gets? Well, it's not. It gets a lot better. Thanks to the wet extra large cleaning power of Dude Wipes, they comfortably clean up whatever TP leaves behind on your behind.
- [51:44]
Commercial Announcer 1
It's time to stop being an A.
- [51:46]
John Lott
Hole to your B hole and start experiencing the confident clean of Dude Wipes. Available at Amazon and at major retailers nationwide. Dude Wipes Best Clean Pants down do.
- [52:00]
Lisa Booth
We have a gun problem as a country? As the left likes to say?
- [52:03]
John Lott
I think we have a problem with gun control laws that make it so that victims aren't able to go and defend themselves. You know, so much with government regulations, you have a government regulation that gets passed that causes a problem and that rather than going and fixing the original gun control legislation or regulation that caused the problem, people pass even more regulations. And the same thing is true here. We pass these gun free zones and then people target those gun free zones and then rather than going back and trying to get rid of the gun free zones, they want to go and pass other types of gun control rules. Look, we've done research looking at mass public shootings across the world. People don't adjust these numbers for population. So you know, you have a country like Germany which has had since 2000, has had three big mass public school shootings. Well, we've had nine. In the United States, we've had more. But Germany has like 83 million people. We have 340 million people. So they have like less than one fourth the number of people we have. You adjust their three, that's the equivalent of us having 12. You look at Finland, Finland's had two mass public school shootings. They have a population of 5.5 million people, like 1/60 what we have here in the United States. That'd be the equivalent of us having 120. Nobody goes, no media outlets going to compare the number of murders in California with Rhode Island. Right. They're going to look at the per capita rates that are there between them. But for some reason they refuse to do that. If you look at per capita rates for mass public shootings, just in general, the United states over a 20 year period of time ranks something like 65th in per capita rates that are there. And it's just, you know, I can understand why the media covers attacks in the United States. It's in the United States. But the bizarre thing is a mass public shooting in the United States gets more attention than mass public shootings that occur in other countries. So if I just were to ask you, just compare only Western Europe versus the United States, let's say since 2010, can you give me the two worst mass public shootings? Where have they occurred? They both have occurred in Western Europe. You have the Norway killing where 67 people were killed. And in 2015, you have the concert shooting in Paris, France in November 2015 where 130 people were killed.
- [54:56]
Lisa Booth
Thanks so much for coming on the show, John, because I feel like, you know, very often a lot of these conversations, you know, the data is not reflected in the media coverage or the discussion surrounding it. So we appreciate the fact that you can bring us the details and also what the statistics actually show us.
- [55:15]
John Lott
I appreciate you having me on and, you know, I just appreciate you letting me go on at length on this stuff. So unfortunately I get a little bit revved up on it.
- [55:27]
Lisa Booth
But I understand it's frustrating when, you know, you hear a bunch of lies.
- [55:31]
John Lott
Sure. People can find more on all these statistics on our website@crimeresearch.org crimeresearch.org that was.
- [55:39]
Lisa Booth
John Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center. Appreciate him for making the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday. You can listen throughout the week. Also want to thank John Cass, my producer for putting the show together. Until next time.
- [55:54]
Jacob Goldstein
There'S nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60 50% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [56:53]
John Lott
Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
- [56:58]
Commercial Announcer 1
Still using yesterday's tech upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 carbon ultralight. Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with intelligence, Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around.
- [57:12]
John Lott
Whoa, this thing moves.
- [57:13]
Commercial Announcer 1
Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search@lenovo.com Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. As a sports fan, you want the best way to watch your favorite teams at home. And now you can experience game day in all its glory with a Samsung TV. Right now, buy an eligible Samsung Glare Free TV and get one year of ESPN Unlimited for free through October 23rd. Not valid. For existing ESPN Select ESPN Unlimited or Disney Hulu ESPN bundle subscribers at Samsung or Best Buy only buy Samsung Glare Free TV and get 12 months of ESPN Unlimited standalone service. Additional terms see samsung.com sportstvs and stream.espn.com.
- [58:01]
Jacob Goldstein
This is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need Check out odoo at O D O o dot com. That's O D O o dot com.
- [58:34]
John Lott
It's finally happened. Your kid could be part of the first generation to never suffer the rough touch of toilet paper on their tender tush. All thanks to new flushable Little Dude Wipes. Available in Bubble bum scent or fragrance free. Because we know little bubble butts can make a big mess. But with Little Dude Wipes you can keep your kids keister clean without the burn and debris toilet paper can leave behind on their behinds. Experience the confident clean of Little Dude Wipes. Available exclusively at Walmart Nationwide.
- [59:04]
Lisa Booth
This is an I heart podcast.