The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Senator Dave McCormick on Leadership, School Choice, and Restoring Order in Washington

Summary

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The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Senator Dave McCormick on Leadership, School Choice, and Restoring Order in Washington

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Host: Lisa Boothe (for this episode)
Guest: Senator Dave McCormick (Pennsylvania)
Date: October 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Lisa Boothe interviews Senator Dave McCormick of Pennsylvania. They discuss the ongoing government shutdown, the dynamics in Washington, President Trump’s recent diplomatic efforts in the Middle East, school choice legislation, and the troubling rise of political violence in America. The conversation is candid, policy-focused, and underpinned by McCormick’s experience as a business and military leader.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Government Shutdown: Causes, Consequences, and Solutions

[03:52 - 07:23]

• Lisa Boothe opens by addressing the ongoing government shutdown and inquires about its prospects:

  • “Government’s been shut down…How do you think this thing ends?” — Lisa Boothe [04:44]

• Senator McCormick attributes the shutdown largely to Democratic tactics:

  • He labels it the “Schumer shutdown,” asserting this is “political gimmickry” aimed to leverage government reopening in exchange for Democratic priorities, particularly COVID-era healthcare subsidies.
  • “This is, I think, good reason and good evidence why…the majority of Americans don’t like Washington…here you have this…political gimmickry” — Senator McCormick [05:00]

• On solutions and bipartisanship:

  • McCormick believes pressure from unpaid federal workers (military, Border Patrol, TSA) will ultimately “break the fever.”
  • He commends Senator John Fetterman for voting to reopen the government, labeling such votes “common sense” and suggesting partisanship should not override people’s needs.

• Notable Quote:

  • “I think ultimately, when the pressure grows, when young men and women in the armed services and in the Border Patrol and the FAA and TSA aren't getting paid...the fever will break, but it's really a bad idea.” — Senator McCormick [06:28]

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Bipartisanship and Relationship with Senator Fetterman

[07:23 - 08:49]

• Lisa expresses surprise at Fetterman’s pragmatism:

  • “During his election, I thought he was, like, super progressive…that he would end up being, like, one of the most reasonable Democrats in Congress.” — Lisa Boothe [07:27]

• McCormick speaks to authentic, constructive working relationships:

  • Though political opponents, McCormick calls Fetterman “a very decent person” and “trustworthy.”
  • They collaborate on issues like fentanyl, support for Israel, and fighting anti-Semitism—reflecting what Pennsylvanians expect from their leadership.
  • “What we agree on, we work together. He's very trustworthy. We have a great relationship. And I'd say we're friends...he's authentic, but he's also common sense.” — Senator McCormick [07:49]

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Healthcare Subsidies & Obamacare

[08:49 - 10:22]

• Debate over extended COVID-era healthcare subsidies:
  • McCormick criticizes Obamacare, declaring it has “failed on all counts” due to rising costs and poor access.
  • He cites the argument that wealthy individuals are now benefitting from extended subsidies, designed as temporary relief.
  • “We gotta stop throwing money at a very failed program in Obamacare.” — Senator McCormick [09:58]

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President Trump’s Diplomatic Momentum in the Middle East

[13:39 - 15:34]

• Lisa asks about Trump’s recent achievements:

  • Success in securing the release of Israeli hostages and “steps towards peace in the Middle East.”

• McCormick sees historic, broad implications:

  • He credits Trump for steadfast support of Israel, strong relationships with Gulf states, and strategic actions towards Iran’s capabilities.
  • Reframes the moment as more than a headline victory—potential for “Abraham Accord II,” encouraging greater regional cooperation.
  • “Only Donald Trump…could have been able to seize this moment…it's deep-seated support for Israel…standing with Israel with its attacks on Iran...it’s historic. In our lifetimes, there’s never been anything quite like it.” — Senator McCormick [14:01]

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School Choice in the “Big Beautiful Bill”

[15:34 - 18:43]

• Discussion around school choice provisions:

  • Lisa spotlights the “100% tax write-off for money given to any school or scholarship fund” as a transformative part of the bill.
  • McCormick champions school choice as an essential aspect of the American dream and a solution to failing public education, especially in urban and rural areas.
  • He emphasizes the bill will allow billions in private dollars to flow to education without hurting current school funds but notes Democratic governors must opt in.

• COVID’s role in shifting the education debate:

  • The pandemic exposed ideological biases and failures in the education system, motivating more parental demand for options.
  • “There is school choice…it's just for rich people. Rich people can send their kids wherever they want.” — Senator McCormick [16:42]
  • “None of this would have been possible without COVID…parents were looking over their shoulders…seeing how weak the education system was, how hijacked…it had been.” — Senator McCormick [18:20]

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Rise in Political Violence & Call for Respectful Discourse

[18:43 - 20:40]

• Lisa expresses concern over a string of violent incidents: arson at Pennsylvania governor’s mansion, murder of Charlie Kirk, attack on ICE office, and more.

• McCormick decries all political violence:

  • Calls for leaders to “step up and stand strongly against” violence of any kind.
  • Reflects on his own proximity to violence, noting he was present just before the attempt on Trump’s life and had personal ties to victims.
  • Argues that dehumanizing political language—especially, in his view, from the left—sets the conditions for violence.
  • “You can disagree with the other side without being hateful, without trying to dehumanize them...That dehumanization is an invitation to go to the next step. We gotta stop it.” — Senator McCormick [19:43]

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Notable Quotes

• “I think ultimately, when the pressure grows, when young men and women in the armed services and in the Border Patrol and the FAA and TSA aren't getting paid...the fever will break, but it's really a bad idea.”
  — Senator McCormick [06:28]

• “[Senator Fetterman] is authentic, but he's also common sense…I sat down with him, I'm never going to vote to shut down the government.”
  — Senator McCormick [07:57]

• “We gotta stop throwing money at a very failed program in Obamacare.”
  — Senator McCormick [09:58]

• “Only Donald Trump…could have been able to seize this moment…it's deep-seated support for Israel…It’s historic. In our lifetimes, there’s never been anything quite like it.”
  — Senator McCormick [14:01]

• “There is school choice…it's just for rich people. Rich people can send their kids wherever they want.”
  — Senator McCormick [16:42]

• “You can disagree with the other side without being hateful, without trying to dehumanize them...That dehumanization is an invitation to go to the next step. We gotta stop it.”
  — Senator McCormick [19:43]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Government Shutdown Analysis: [03:52 - 07:23]
• Bipartisanship with Senator Fetterman: [07:23 - 08:49]
• Healthcare Subsidies/Obamacare: [08:49 - 10:22]
• President Trump’s Middle East Diplomacy: [13:39 - 15:34]
• School Choice Legislation: [15:34 - 18:43]
• Political Violence & Discourse: [18:43 - 20:40]

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Memorable Moments

• Genuine praise for political “opponents,” especially Fetterman, and hope for bipartisan progress
• Direct, emotional reference to the personal toll of escalating political violence, including McCormick’s proximity to dangerous incidents and loss of friends
• Strong invocation of the American dream and urgent need for education reform
• Repeated assertions of optimism that legislative and cultural change is not only needed but possible

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This episode stands out for its forthright, solution-oriented discussion of national divisions, the importance of pragmatic leadership, and the need for both principle and civility in Washington.

Transcript

[Lisa Booth]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Asma Khalid]

America is changing and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Tristan Redman]

Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Lisa Booth]

Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you today. We've got Senator Dave McCormick from the Great state of Pennsylvania. We're going to talk about the ongoing government shutdown fight. How does it end? Why are Democrats digging in their heels? We'll talk about that. Also, President Trump's got big momentum after getting Hamas to release the Israeli hostages and pushing for peace in the Middle East. What does this mean for Europe? Will he be able to get peace between Russia and Ukraine as well?

[Senator Dave McCormick]

Also, a lot of people don't know.

[Lisa Booth]

This, but do you know that school choice is in the big, beautiful bill? What does that mean for you? What does it mean for your kids? I'm going to ask Senator McCormick about that. Also, his governor, Governor Josh Shapiro, a man just pled guilty for arson for trying to burn down the governor's house. We'll talk about the political violence in this country. Will it stop? Stay tuned for my interview with Senator Dave McCormick. Senator McCormick, I appreciate you taking time to come on the show. I had you when you were running for Senate, so congratulations on winning. So glad to have you in the Senate. Great. Thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it.

[Senator Dave McCormick]

Oh, thank you. That was a wild ride, but we ended in the right place.

[Lisa Booth]

Are you enjoying it so far?

[Senator Dave McCormick]

I really am. You know, I feel like to be the center from Pennsylvania at any time is a real privilege, but at this moment, it's so consequential. There's so much going on and everything from peace breaking out in the Middle east to, you know, landmark legislation that, that we put in place with the big, beautiful bill. And I'm the 54th elected senator in the history of Pennsylvania and the ninth senator who's a graduate in the history of America, that's a graduate of West Point. So I really feel like it's an honor to be here. I really do.

[Lisa Booth]

You know, you're a business guy, a military guy, so, you know, you're used to getting things done that doesn't always happen in Congress.

[Senator Dave McCormick]

No.

[Lisa Booth]

So I imagine, you know, that part's a little bit frustrating, you know. Right. Government's been shut down, you know, not quite the longest shutdown we've had so far, but potentially it could head that direction. How do you think this thing ends? Like, how does this shutdown fight end?

[Senator Dave McCormick]

Well, to Start with. I mean, this is, I think, good reason and good evidence why, you know, the majority of Americans don't like Washington and don't like the people that serve in Washington. Because here you have this. What I think is clearly political gimmickry to try to use opening the government is leverage as a way to hold the Republicans hostage and blackmail to get things that the Democrats want. So it's the Schumer shutdown, and it's truly going out of the normal course. Continuing resolution, a clean resolution, which is what we put forward, is a way to keep funding the government while we're going through the process of appropriations. It happened 14 times under Biden, and the Democrats are now trying to use it as a way to negotiate the extension of that. The health care subsidies that were put in place during COVID So I think it's a. It's bad policy. I think it's. It's bad politics. I'm really disgusted by the whole thing, and I don't know how it ends. I think ultimately the Democrats and Chuck Schumer and I think this is the Schumer shutdown. Chuck. Chuck Schumer is in a cul de sac. The left wing of his party is insisting that he fight back against President Trump. So this is an effort to poke President Trump in the eye. And the reality is that Republicans are going to stand on this because we're certainly not going to be blackmailed into making some sort of negotiation that we don't think makes sense. And so I think ultimately, when the pressure grows, when young men and women in the armed services and in the Border Patrol and the FAA and TSA aren't getting paid, I. That's. The fever will break, but it's really a bad idea. My fellow Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman has voted to open the government, and I, of course, have voted nine times to open the government. And he says that he would never vote to close the government. He thinks it's bad leadership, bad policy, regardless of what party's in place. And that's the way I feel. If roles were reversed and there were Democrats leading the majority in the Senate and the House and the White. I would not vote to shut the government down. I think it's. It's really a disgrace.

[Lisa Booth]

Did you know Fetterman before he ran for Senate? Because I'm not going to lie. During his election, I thought he was, like, super progressive, like, very liberal. So I've been surprised, I did not see it coming, that he would end up being, like, one of the most reasonable Democrats in Congress.

[Senator Dave McCormick]

You know, I did not know him. He campaigned against me. So we, we had a bad sort of rough start.

[Lisa Booth]

Yeah, yeah.

[Senator Dave McCormick]

But I went to see him after I had won and, you know, we were both Pittsburgh guys and he, he's a very decent person and we don't agree on a lot of things, but what we agree on, we work together. I. He's very trustworthy. We, we have a great relationship. And I'd say we're friends. And, you know, the thing I admire about him is he's authentic, but he's also common sense. And he just, you know, he told me in the first day I sat down with him, I'm never going to vote to shut down the government. You know, fentanyl is a huge problem in Pennsylvania. So we co sponsored legislation on that. We both are strong supporters of Israel and the fight against anti Semitism, so we found a lot of ways to work together. And I think it's because that's who he is, but I think it's also because Pennsylvania, you know, the people expect that I'm a Republican, he's a Democrat, but the people expect us to work together to get things done on their behalf. And I feel like we're off to a great start in doing that.

[Lisa Booth]

Do you think those beefed up subsidies extended or what do you think is going to.

[Senator Dave McCormick]

Well, I think the starting point is you have to say Obamacare, which was 15 years ago, was designed to lower prices, improve quality and increase access. It has failed on all counts. It's been, you know, we see huge growth in health care costs. And what happened during COVID of course, is the Obamacare subsidies were increased fairly dramatically. And you now have a situation where there's people that make five or six hundred thousand dollars a year that are actually still getting additional subsidies. So something that was put in place during COVID was not meant to be extended into perpetuity. So, you know, that's what, that's where Republicans are coming from. And, and listen, we got to look at this carefully. We can't look at it with a gun to our head and be blackmailed with a government shutdown. I think there'll be, you know, varying views among Republicans. My view is that our health care costs are spiraling out of control. We got to make sure health care is available to those among us that, that have the most vulnerability. But we also have to create market forces that are bringing down prices. The president's trying to do that with pharmaceutical cost and a bunch of other things. And so we'll look at it closely but it's going to be a tough issue and we've got to stop throwing money at a very failed program in Obamacare.

[Lisa Booth]

Got to take a quick break. If you like what you're hearing, please share on social media or maybe send it to a friend or family member.

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[Asma Khalid]

America is changing and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, DC.

[Tristan Redman]

I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meat.

[Tristan Redman]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Luma Nutrition Advertiser]

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[Asma Khalid]

Ugh. Come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

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[Lisa Booth]

You look at President Trump, you've served in Iraq, you've served in the Middle East. You know President Trump coming off of getting the Israeli hostages released, taking steps towards peace in the Middle east, hopefully, you know, fingers crossed. Like what kind of momentum does that give him, the party? And then also what kind of momentum does this give him in trying to also negotiate peace in Europe between Ukraine and Russia?

[Senator Dave McCormick]

I think it gives him enormous momentum. I think it's incredible what's happening. Only Donald Trump, I think, could have been able to seize this moment. And I think it's stepping back. You know that the headlines are he got the hostages released. But it's much more profound than that. It's deep seated support for Israel in fighting back against Hamas, Hezbollah. It's standing with Israel with its attacks on Iran and using US Capabilities to destroy the nuclear capability of Iran. It's this incredibly deep and strong relationships with the Arab countries, particularly the Gulf countries. And it's the candor and the fair mindedness, all of those things and the steadfastness in saying we have to bring the hostages home that brought us to this moment building on Abraham Accords one from his first administration. So this is an incredible moment of opportunity. I think it's historic. In our lifetimes, there's never been anything quite like it. And I think it lays the groundwork for the possibility of a true Abraham Accord too, where you could really see Israel and other countries across the region coming together, creating commerce, opportunity, opportunity for all. This is really about opportunity for everybody, including the innocent people in those who are innocent In Gaza. And that's what I'm hoping we'll see.

[Lisa Booth]

You know, school choice is important to you, and you engaged in a press conference recently. I think a lot of people don't understand that school choice was in the big beautiful bill. There's this 100% tax write off for money given to any school or scholarship fund. Why don't you think that's sort of been out there more? I mean, I feel like that's, you know, one of the important selling points of the big beautiful bill.

[Senator Dave McCormick]

Yeah, you know, it's, it's such a, it's such a moment of, of success and it should get more attention. Because if you think about what the American dream's all about, the American dream is creating opportunity, equality of opportunity for everybody. And right now, many of our kids are stranded. They're hostage to a school system, often public schools in urban areas or some rural areas where they're just disadvantaged from day one because of a very poor education. We're losing the battle globally on math and science and engineering and reading. And so we got to fix the system. And the only way to fix it is to create competition and opportunity for every student to choose a school that's best for them, for parents to choose a school that's best for them in terms of being able to offer the education that they need. There is school choice in our country. It's just for rich people. Rich people can send their kids wherever they want. So the reason this legislation was so important, it allows a tax exemption for donors that are donating to school choice, whether it's tutors or actual tuition programs. We think it's going to generate billions and billions of dollars that people will philanthropically give to school choice programs. And it will not take a single dollar away from existing schools, existing programs. So this is all additive to create school choice. Now, what it requires is for the Democratic governors and Democratic states, all the Republican governors are going to opt into this. It requires the Democratic governors to opt in. And this will be a real test. What are you for? Are you for educational opportunity for everybody? Are you for giving disadvantaged children the opportunity to have the best schools possible? Or are you going to be held accountable and held to the talking points of the teachers unions? And this is the moment we're in. And I think, I think it's a real test and a huge moment of opportunity. I'll say one more thing on this. None of this would have been possible without Covid, I don't think, because during COVID what happened when kids were Getting schooled from home. Their parents were looking over their shoulders on these zoom calls and seeing how weak the education system was, how hijacked it had been by an ideological lefty, progressive agenda in many cases. And now with this legislation, we have a chance to really provide opportunity for all.

[Lisa Booth]

And, Senator, before we go, you're Governor of Pennsylvania. The governor of Pennsylvania, a man recently pleaded guilty to attempted murder, aggravated arson as well, 22 counts of arson, burglary, and other offenses, sentenced to 25 to 50 years. We're seeing a lot of this, right? You know, Charlie Kirk murdered. The attack on ICE in Dallas, this with your governor, just a lot of political violence. Like, where is this heading?

[Senator Dave McCormick]

Well, it's. It's entirely unacceptable. Political violence of any kind is, is something that we, we need to have public officials like myself and others step up and stand strongly against. I mean, I'm, I was on the stage a minute before Trump was shot in. You know, this is my governor, Governor Shapiro. His family was in the governor's mansion when, when the arsonist came in, I was, I was friendly with Charlie Kirk, who had campaigned with me and had endorsed me. This is. I mean, it's. It's without doubt it's getting worse. It's something that we have to stand up against. The bipartisanship that I'm demonstrating with Senator Fetterman as an example, you can disagree with the other side without being hateful, without trying to dehumanize them. And I think this dehumanizing language, particularly on the left, to be honest with you, when they call Republicans fascist or Nazis or authoritarians, it is a. The first step towards violence, because that dehumanization is an invitation to go to the next step. We got to stop it. We've got to stand strongly against it. And I can't solve that with the wave of a hand. But what I can do and I try to do is be a great example of the kind of mutual respect we need to have, even if we have very, very different views on the direction to take our great country.

[Lisa Booth]

Senator Dave McCormick, appreciate you for making the time, sir. Thank you so much.

[Senator Dave McCormick]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Asma Khalid]

America is changing, and so is the world.

[Tristan Redman]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Tristan Redman]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and.

[Tristan Redman]

America meet listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Asma Khalid]

Ah come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

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[Lisa Booth]

Whoa.

[Asma Khalid]

This thing moves.

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[Lisa Booth]

This is an iHeart podcast.