The Truth with Lisa Boothe: The Politics Behind DEI: A Corporate Crossroads

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: The Truth with Lisa Boothe: The Politics Behind DEI: A Corporate Crossroads
Release Date: May 13, 2025

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In this enlightening episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, host Molly Roberts engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Oh Skinner, the Executive Director of the Alliance for Consumers. Together, they delve deep into the intricate politics surrounding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) within corporate America, exploring its origins, evolution, and the current pushback under the Trump administration.

1. Introduction to DEI in Corporate America

The conversation kicks off with an exploration of how DEI initiatives became deeply entrenched in corporate structures. Molly Roberts sets the stage by highlighting the role of the Obama administration in promoting DEI, suggesting that the infusion of Obama-era officials into corporations led to a sustained push for "wokeness" in business practices.

Molly Roberts [04:24]: "Obama wins. He's the president. He starts putting all this pressure on corporate America to do diversity, to do all these things that we now know as DEI..."

2. Obama Administration's Influence

Roberts argues that the Obama presidency was pivotal in embedding DEI into corporate policies. The transition of Obama-era officials into the corporate sector, such as Tony West at Uber, facilitated the dissemination of DEI principles across major companies like Google.

Molly Roberts [04:24]: "...they are like doubling and tripling down. They're hiring as many officials as they possibly can from the Obama team..."

3. The Impact of George Floyd's Death

The tragic death of George Floyd served as a catalyst, intensifying DEI initiatives and leading to significant corporate and social movements advocating for racial justice. However, Skinner contends that this event also polarized opinions and led to unforeseen consequences in corporate policies.

Molly Roberts [12:46]: "And I think that here’s this gets back to our modern day. If corporate America is just responding to pressure... you’re seeing corporate America start to at least try to hew back to the middle."

4. Corporate America's Response and the Rise of DEI Departments

The establishment and expansion of DEI departments became a strategic move for corporations to navigate governmental pressures. These departments, often staffed with left-leaning individuals, gradually influence company policies from within, sometimes leading to conflicts with traditional business objectives.

Molly Roberts [10:24]: "It's like what you see with some of the gender stuff... you give yourself like more boots on the ground..."

5. The Shift Under the Trump Administration

With the advent of the Trump administration, there has been a notable shift as corporations face renewed pressure from the right to dismantle DEI programs. This political tug-of-war has compelled many companies to reassess and often retract their DEI initiatives to align with a more centrist or conservative stance.

Molly Roberts [12:46]: "...now there's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left. And so where does corporate America start to go? Somewhere in the middle."

6. Notable Cases and Public Backlash

The episode cites specific instances where DEI policies led to significant public backlash against corporations. Brands like Bud Light and Target faced boycotts and negative publicity after implementing DEI-related changes that didn't resonate with their core demographics.

Molly Roberts [14:55]: "Well, they worked because it was the first time that corporate America was viewing a lot of the DEI in particular stuff as not free."

7. The Future of DEI and Corporate Governance

Looking ahead, Roberts and Skinner discuss the potential for lasting changes as the Trump administration leverages Supreme Court rulings to enforce a more meritocratic and less racially biased corporate environment. They anticipate a future where corporations balance pressures from both political spectrums, striving for middle-ground policies that cater to a broader consumer base.

Molly Roberts [41:08]: "...the more pressure it more, the more it sets corporate America free. And I think if there's four years of pressure, I don't think you're ever going to see corporate America writ large go crazy to the left anymore..."

8. Conclusion: Return to Normalcy

The episode concludes on an optimistic note, envisioning a return to normalcy where consumers can freely choose products without being subjected to corporate political agendas. This shift aims to prioritize customer preferences over ideological compliance, fostering a business environment that serves the diverse needs of the American populace.

Molly Roberts [43:30]: "I just want people to like be able to buy things from companies that aren't trying to tell them how to live their lives. That's a good thing if we can get there."

Key Takeaways

• Historical Context: The Obama administration played a significant role in embedding DEI into corporate policies by integrating Obama-era officials into major companies.
• Corporate Strategy: Establishing DEI departments allowed corporations to preemptively comply with governmental pressures, often leading to internal ideological shifts.
• Political Counterbalance: The Trump administration's pushback against DEI has forced corporations to recalibrate, aiming for a balance that accommodates both left and right pressures.
• Public Reaction: Corporate DEI initiatives have sometimes led to consumer backlash when changes are perceived as misaligned with brand identities or consumer preferences.
• Future Outlook: A potential move towards centrist policies in corporations may emerge as businesses navigate the dual pressures from both political spectrums, striving to serve a diverse consumer base without ideological bias.

Notable Quotes

• Molly Roberts [04:24]: "Obama wins. He's the president. He starts putting all this pressure on corporate America to do diversity, to do all these things that we now know as DEI..."
• Molly Roberts [10:24]: "It's like what you see with some of the gender stuff... you give yourself like more boots on the ground..."
• Molly Roberts [14:55]: "Well, they worked because it was the first time that corporate America was viewing a lot of the DEI in particular stuff as not free."
• Molly Roberts [43:30]: "I just want people to like be able to buy things from companies that aren't trying to tell them how to live their lives. That's a good thing if we can get there."

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This episode offers a critical examination of DEI's trajectory within corporate America, highlighting the dynamic interplay between political administrations and business practices. For listeners seeking to understand the broader implications of DEI on business and society, Molly Roberts and Oh Skinner provide a compelling narrative that underscores the importance of balancing corporate responsibility with consumer autonomy.

Transcript

[Molly Roberts]

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I'm Molly Roberts. And I'm Drew Goins. Each Friday on Impromptu, we talk through the questions we can't stop thinking about. Do we need to rethink how much we drink? Why are companies really asking workers to come back to the office? Does boycotting a business actually work? Should we quit social media? We're here when the news gets personal and the headlines hit home. Join Molly and me every Friday on Impromptu from Washington Post opinions. Find Impromptu Wherever you get your podcasts, step into the world of power, loyalty and luck. I'm gonna make him an offer he.

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[Podcast Host]

At a conference recently and I heard my next guest speak and I thought to myself, let's get him on the show. He was discussing corporate America's embrace of diversity, equity and inclusion. But he was saying things I hadn't heard before and it was just different angles that I'm used to hearing. And that's what I try to do on this podcast, is just to get different angles, to get different guests to keep things interesting, but also just so that we can all continue learning together. But what he was talking about is Obama's role, former President Obama's role in pushing these companies to the left, how his people infiltrated corporate America and turned them woke. So we'll discuss that. We'll discuss what happened and we'll also discuss the latest course correction now that President Trump and his administration are all these DEI executive orders and, you know, pushing America's companies back to the right. So we'll discuss that course correction. How long will it last? What do we need to know? So stay tuned for oh Skinner. He is the executive director of alliance for Consumers. He also previously worked for the Arizona Attorney General. He was the state's lead counsel in the United States Supreme Court. So stay tuned for oh Skinner.

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Well.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, it's great to have you on the show.

[Podcast Host]

I recently met you and, you know.

[Guest Speaker]

We were having discussions about some of this DEI stuff and so I was like, I got to get them on my podcast. So I appreciate you making the time and I look forward to this conversation.

[Molly Roberts]

This is going to be fun.

[Guest Speaker]

It will be fun.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, so let's start with because you.

[Guest Speaker]

You said something which I hadn't really given much thought about prior to you saying it, but explain. Walk us through the role that the Obama administration and Obama world played in pushing these companies to woke and pushing these companies towards dei.

[Molly Roberts]

Yeah, I mean, I think what's really important to understand about corporate America at a basic level is that they just respond to incentives and pressures, especially pressures. And you know, you have to go back in time to what feels like forever ago. But, you know, Obama wins. He's the president. He starts putting all this pressure on corporate America to do diversity, to do all these things that we now know as dei and then he gets reelected. And so especially in his second term, you have all of this exodus of Obama era officials and lawyers and agency heads and they're all going into corporate America. Right? Like, one of the things that's easy to forget is that the Obama people all got jobs at places like Google or, you know, Tony west is like a great example. He ended up going to Uber and being the head of government affairs. And it's like you can literally follow the trajectory of like DEI in America. One of my friends says by following this guy Tony. And so they all leave to go to corporate America. And they're busy telling corporate America that the way to be safe from the Obama administration is to just get ahead of them, do a little bit more diversity, do a little bit more esg, do a little bit more, a little bit more. You stay one step ahead of the government, and then the government doesn't smack you, doesn't fine you, doesn't sue you. And then we all forget that all of those smart people thought that Hillary Clinton was going to be president. And so as the second term of Obama is ending, they're not pulling back into neutral. They're not getting worried about maybe having a direction shift in Washington. They're like doubling and tripling down. They're hiring as many officials as they possibly can from the Obama team, and people they think are going to be favorable from the Clinton world, they're just like, really digging in. And then Trump wins. Right. So the easy thing to understand is, you look at the world now is that all of the seeds for what we see in corporate America were driven by this belief from corporate America that the way to make the pressure stop from Washington was to hire the Obama people, who then, of course, as you know, they just import all of what they were going to do in the government, but now they have control over the companies. Right. So they're just pushing the companies to do everything that they would have done had they still been in government. Right. And so that's, I think, really to understand where it came from, you have to understand this, like, arc of what they thought was going to be 12 years of, you know, strong push from Washington with Democratic presidents to do all of what we now know of as dei.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, and what's interesting is, you know, we know that Obama made race a, you know, obviously being the first black president, but really just a lot of race initiatives and, and really pushing sort of that racial division in the country. I mean, the irony is when he left, I think it was even CNN said that, you know, 54 of Americans believed that race relations had gotten worse under his time. So obviously it didn't. You know, I guess he did do an effective job driving people apart. Was that just for political reasons or what do you think the strategy for Obama was with all of that?

[Molly Roberts]

You know, it's hard. I always. People ask me sometimes whether the government officials are doing something for political reasons or for, you know, for their own altruistic reasons. I think it's always a mix of things. You know, it's hard when you are pushing this narrative for such a long time on the left. About where so many of their policies are, are hinged on like social justice, racial justice, all these things, right? Like they hang so many of their policies on those things, which, you know, it's. The easy answer is to say once you start selling something for certain reasons, you can't just sell half the package. If you're telling people that environmental justice is so important because minority communities are hardest hit, if you're telling people that you need to have different tax policies, different spending policies, all in the name of racial or environmental or all these other things, right? It's also really hard to then turn around and be like, but we shouldn't be promoting people in corporate America. We should. Like, once you've sold part of the package, the rest of the ideas follow, if that makes sense. Even if they weren't like the reason that you were selling the idea, they all follow through, right? It all like, it continues. People don't suspend their disbelief and think that we should be very race conscious in some settings, but then not in other settings. And so when the left starts selling racial justice as a reason to do countless things, it follows through. And I think if you're being honest, a lot of the George Floyd stuff ended up being the logical conclusion of something that you can see. Obama would talk all the time about that. You've seen this when he's given speeches and lectured the left about identity politics and being crazy leftist, right? I think a lot of that is he knew that he was pushing this DEI stuff. And then the logical end point is these marches in the street being like, defund the police, they're racist. And it's like the people who set off they release the virus are sitting there thinking, whoa, we like racial justice to explain our tax policy or our giveaway policy or our spending policy. We didn't mean get rid of the police. And people are like, well, you told us that like racial disparities mean racism. And so like the police are doing things that are racially disparate, so therefore they're racist. We should get rid of them. And you could just see the people be like, my God, it escaped containment. We didn't mean that. I think that's probably the right way to think about it.

[Guest Speaker]

And also in thinking about it, I mean, it's kind of a straight sort smart strategy. Because if you're sort of pressuring these companies to build out their DEI department, I mean, most of the people who are going to be in those roles, I mean, that's a left, that the left wing, you know, way of thinking so they're going to be filled with progressives and leftists. So it's, it's, it's actually a smart way to get a foothold with some of these companies. Right? So.

[Molly Roberts]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it's like, it's like, it's like what you see with some of the gender stuff and now where people will say, look, we need to have like a gender equity, we need to have a transgender department at this university. Well, all you're doing is when you start a whole new department and staff it with all your people, you give yourself like more boots on the ground, right? And so you're exactly right. The DEI department starts small and then they grow, and then they grow, and then they grow and then one of those people becomes the CEO of the company. And now all of a sudden, like, you've gotten control of a place.

[Guest Speaker]

How significant was the death of George Floyd? Because I mean, that really set a lot of things off in the country after his death, from soft on crime policies to, you know, the rest of it. So how significant do you think that was in pushing these companies to the left and also, you know, forcing these companies to embrace D. I, you know.

[Molly Roberts]

It'S funny, I actually don't know that it had a lot. If anything, I think it probably was like, didn't help them on the DEI front. Like, you got to understand that my core belief about companies and why you see like products being taken off store shelves, which is the thing I care about the most, is that they are constantly just negotiating with the pressures that they're under. And so I think, you know, the, this goes back to something we were talking about earlier. I do think that I'll get back to the George Floyd point, I promise. But what you saw during the Obama years was also this like, negotiation of corporate America between like the Bernie crowd that wants to confiscate all of corporate America and like turn it into like, you know, a government run institution, and the social justice crowd that just wants to take 30% of the budget of corporate America and turn it into crazy social promotion and stuff. Right? And you could see that with the George Floyd protests where like, there's radicals on the streets that are basically like, tear down city government, defund the police, and any company that is like not toeing the line, we're gonna like blast them. If you're not, if you're not taking down your ads, if you're not posting black squares on the Internet. Right. And I think in a way that crowd, like scared corporate America because they thought they had cut a deal where if I, like, if I give a huge DEI department, then, like, the Bernie crowd won't come for me. Does that make sense?

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Molly Roberts]

And I think that here's this gets back to our modern day. If corporate America is just responding to pressure, then back then they were importing all the Obama people because they were looking for the pressure to only come from the left under Obama and Clinton. And they're negotiating only between the Obama. Tony West, I'm going to work at a company, but talk about diversity and the Bernie crowd, that's like, I'm going to talk about diversity and take your company from you. Right? Like, that's who they were negotiating between. And the right was silent. Right. And so are we surprised that corporate America just starts to like, only make products for the left and only hire leftists? Right. What you've seen in the most recent set of years is started with state AGs, some private groups, and now the Trump administration. Why is corporate America snapping back to the middle? Is now there's like an aggressive pressure from the right to drop your DEI programs, stop doing weird ESG stuff, stop banning products, stop trying to ban gas stoves, stop trying to be weirdos, just like be the middle of America. Right? And bam, all of a sudden, corporate America sure is talking like they're now in the middle. Why? Because now there's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left. And so where does corporate America start to go? Somewhere in the middle. Right. Like, it's just suddenly, it's like conservatives have finally learned that the only thing corporate America can listen to, if we're being honest, is pressure. Whether it's a boycott or whether it's a lawsuit, they only respond to pressure. And now that there's consistent pressure from the right on these issues, you're seeing corporate America start to at least try to hew back to the middle. And that's a tremendous thing.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, you know, and we saw some of these sort of, you know, I guess you would call them, I guess they're boycotts, but, you know, pressure campaigns, you know, getting a lot of bad press and, you know, a lot of social media activity with things like Bud Light and Target and Disney. Why do you think those specific pressure campaigns worked? And then kind of, what message do you think that sent to the rest of corporate America?

[Molly Roberts]

I think they worked because it was the first time that corporate America was viewing a lot of the DEI in particular stuff as not free. But you got to understand that, like the sales Pit, like, I can't explain enough to you that like Eric Holder, you know, he was the head of, he was the attorney general under Obama. He has this business where he goes to companies in the last few years and he charges them like $1500 an hour. It's probably more like $2000 an hour now because of, you know, how the world works. Telling him about how there's all these benefits to building out diversity and all these programs. And it was working under Biden. He's making all this money. He goes to a company, tells him to be more woke, then he cashes a huge check. Well, nowadays we call it getting holdered because then they get sued by a state or now they're going to get sued by the, by the Department of Justice and then he's going to come back in and be like, hey, I can defend you. I can make more money. Right? There's this whole industry of people telling them, do the woke thing. It's an unalloyed good. You'll get all this positive praise from the Washington Post and the New York Times. You'll be lauded. You'll get to be go to high five people at your country club and it won't cost you anything. So just keep doing it, right? And then bam, Bud Light happens. You get Target, you get some of these other things. And like for the first time, these official, these people and these companies who aren't radicals are like, wait, I did that thing. You said it was going to be all upside, no downside, but now I'm like getting this massive hit to my bottom line. I should have never done it in the first place. Like, you didn't get me anything. This is dumb. And so I think they worked because they showed actual, like, belief from most people that they just want people to make products for them and not just like lecture at them. So I mean, what, I mean, the various ones that worked were where the core demographic of the company just didn't match the, the slop that was being thrown at them by the heads of the offices. Right? Like, you know, and so you saw people get really, really mad because something totally out of whack was happening. And corporate America responded because it was the first time they'd ever felt pain as a result of something that they were told was like a freebie.

[Podcast Host]

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[Guest Speaker]

What percentage of these companies do you think where, like, the C. CEO actually believes these things versus feeling like they were sort of being held hostage by sort of employees and like, the movement, so to speak?

[Molly Roberts]

Yeah, yeah. The line I keep being told by lots of different people, especially when I complain to them about, like, why they're removing products from store shelves, is that about 70% of companies just want to go along and get along. And so they'll, they'll, they'll do what the left wants when their left's in charge to a certain degree, and they'll do it the right ones, but they're not, like, committed. Right. And then I've heard that like, 30% of companies are like, either wholly taken over by the DEI clan or the CEO believes it. Right. Like, I don't know if you guys saw this. Like, Robby Starbuck has done just a huge amount.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, he's great.

[Molly Roberts]

Yeah. And when he talks about how, like, Harley Davidson was one that he, that was really important to him because the customer base was conservative and the CEO was like this, like, euro, you know, like you're a weirdo who's like, trying to convince everybody that, like, climate change was going to end the world and that the only way Harley Davidson could survive is by stopping selling the product that everybody bought and instead they would just make, like, electric bikes. That's, that's an example of, like, the CEO is a believer. He's in the 30%. Right. There's other companies that have flipped under pressure from states or Robbie Starbuck where, like, they kind of, like, you could just tell that they were just happy that somebody finally gave them an excuse to tell their DEI department to shove off. Right. That somebody gave them the right to go down to their HR department and.

[Guest Speaker]

Say, like, they were freed.

[Molly Roberts]

So the comment that, so one of the state AGs who is pushing back on this, he'll often refer to it as, like, I'm not anti business. I think that the pressure I bring is, you know, let the pressure set them free. Right? Like, when I bring pressure on a company, it allows them to just make the choices that they know are right for their customers. Freed from the belief that they might be called out for being a bigot or a racist or all of the things that you and I have seen, people get called. He's like, I just want them to be free to just make business choices, Right? And surprise, like, business choices means that they're just, like, going to keep gas stoves, that they're going to still sell gas grills, that they're going to like, stop doing weird stuff and start just, like, meeting their customers. Right. And so he always refers to as, like, the pressure. Like, I'm going to. The pressure will set them free. Right. It's not me being negative on corporate America. It's me wanting corporate America to be better.

[Guest Speaker]

So take us through. As the executive director of alliance for Consumers, take us through. I guess some of the craziest examples, examples you've seen of companies just pushing, like, ridiculous woke things that even you've been like, whoa, okay, that's, you know, that's out there.

[Molly Roberts]

Well, you know, it's funny is a lot of the. A lot of it just. I mean, you've seen. I would say the craziest ones are the things that you've seen. Whether it's, you know, Bud Light deciding that notwithstanding their core demographic, they're going to become like the LGBTQ hotbed of America. Right. Or it's places like, you know, or like what Target did, where you're just like, you. You know, they should know the demographic, their shops at their stores, and that they're not interested in seeing, you know, trans kids swimsuits. But what I think is actually, like, more interesting is the craziness of the government. Because the government stuff is like, what you're now seeing is governments trying to push companies past where the companies even want to go. And so you've seen this. Like, I don't know if you've seen this in California now. Like, you can't buy gas lawnmowers anymore. Have you seen this?

[Guest Speaker]

I don't think I actually have.

[Molly Roberts]

Oh, see, this is beautiful. Like, when you live in, like, real America.

[Guest Speaker]

I live in Florida. We're free there, you know?

[Molly Roberts]

Yeah, exactly. Right, right. So, you know, I live in Arizona, and that's close to California. So, like, we catch the, you know, we catch the blowback that comes out of there. You know, they're busy doing things like banning gas powered Lawnmowers and leaf blowers in the name of climate change, right? And so now you see these videos on the Internet of people walking to like a Home Depot and the cheapest thing they can buy as like a, like a normal like riding lawnmower that used to cost like, let's just say $1,000 is now like a $4,000 thing that depending upon where you live, you might have to charge it in the middle of mowing your lawn, right? All in the name of like esg. And you're just sitting there being like, you're literally making everybody's lives worse. It costs more and does a worse job, right? It's like the theme that you see all the time, whether it's messing with your dishwasher, messing with your refrigerator, what's the outcome? The government officials are making it cost more and do a worse job. Cost more and do a worse job. And what I think is the part that is like, it won't mean as much to your listeners, but it means a lot to me is 20 years ago when the government officials would do this junk companies and people would fight it. Where I see the DEI and the ESG stuff really doing this like dirty, dangerous thing is it's making companies roll over and agree to remove products and agree to do stuff in the name of the climate or anti racism or any of these other like silly things. And so that leaves like a group like mine to actually yell about how this makes people's lives worse. You used to be able to rely on somebody like at a company to say, well, I still want to be able to sell something to a person. But now they've been so scared by the left that they just agree. I mean, another one that I'll say is just bonkers and will make everybody's life terrible is California has now passed this rule that says if you want to operate trucks in California, you have to make your entire fleet zero emission trucks. What is a zero emission, like freight truck? It means that you're supposed to have, have like a truck like an 18 wheeler that hauls stuff all across America, be battery powered, right? I don't know if you, I mean, I grew up in the middle of America. These trucks are limited by how much they weigh and the batteries weigh a ton, which now means that the trucks can carry like half as much and have to charge all the time. But California is busy trying to make it so that you can only have those trucks if you drive anywhere in California. Your trucks in Nebraska and Iowa also have to be zero Emission long haul trucks. And the trucking companies agreed to it. They wrote this special agreement. You're laughing. They wrote this special agreement with the Biden administration saying even if your rule is struck down in court, we agree to implement it anyway in the name of climate justice. And so what you've got is everyone, the stuff at your store comes on these trucks now, it's going to get more expensive, it's going to take longer to get there, it's more expensive and does a less good job. And the companies were like, sounds good. So that's the stuff that just like blows my mind is when these officials look like they're just trying to make your life worse, you know, I don't know. Did you see, did you see all the articles, like right at the tail end of the Biden administration about how good life could be without air conditioning? Did you see this?

[Guest Speaker]

Yes. Which I fundamentally disagree?

[Molly Roberts]

Well, of course. But like, you know, I'm the type.

[Guest Speaker]

Of person who like, lives in Florida and my apartment's freezing, so I can sleep with a comforter.

[Molly Roberts]

Like, yeah, great, great, right.

[Guest Speaker]

Like, I'm like, of. I'm one of the worst offenders.

[Molly Roberts]

We live in America. It's a wonderful place.

[Guest Speaker]

I know, I know.

[Molly Roberts]

So, but when you're, you're in the media, you know this. When the, when you see the first article that says how great it is to live without air conditioning, you're like, that's weird. When you see the second one, you're like, wait a second. When you see the third, fourth, fifth, and they talk about how like, the fight for climate change includes getting rid of things like air conditioners, all of a sudden you have this moment where you're like, oh my God. The reason you officials are raising the price of air conditioners or banning, they banned the HFCs that go into a lot of these conditioners. And I don't know, you probably haven't experienced this. Nowadays a lot of air conditioning companies won't repair your air conditioner. They just make you buy a whole new system because they can't get the replacement chemicals. And so when something leaks, you now have to buy like a new $30,000 air conditioning system, depending upon where you live. And all of a sudden you have this moment, you're like, oh my God. That's not like a negative side effect from these officials perspective. You kind of want air conditioning to be unreachable. But why do they want us to.

[Guest Speaker]

Live like that though? Because, you know, I remember, like, even there, I can't remember the Exact headlines. But they were also basically like, you know, bread lines are great.

[Podcast Host]

You know what I mean?

[Molly Roberts]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, exactly.

[Guest Speaker]

But like, why do they want us to. What's, what's behind that? Like, why do they want us to live like that?

[NFL Announcer]

This is the.

[Molly Roberts]

Okay, well, now we explain the why. Yeah, the why.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm holding the why.

[Molly Roberts]

Oh, wait, so you may have, you may have heard this phrase, net zero, have you? I mean, I'm sure you've heard that, right? People are net zero, okay? Net zero means net zero by 2030 or 2050, depending upon who you're talking to. Okay? It actually means that you have to hit net zero as defined by the un, like eia, like energy group, right? They have charts in order to hit net zero, that means net zero new carbon emissions. They literally will say, okay, well, in order to hit net zero, that means you're allowed to have X percent of your emissions come from this and this and this. It literally means that you have to get rid of all of the natural gas powered fired power plants in America. All the gas stations have to go away, your ships in your harbors and the cranes, they all have to become electric, the semi trucks electric in order to hit net zero. They have math that they have to solve for. And so when you buy this idea that the world will end unless we go NET 0 By 2030, once you accept that you have to get people to give up air conditioning, you have to get people to give up the gas powered cars, you have to get people to make all of these changes and probably get rid of things like dishwashers, right? Get rid of things like a, like a refrigerator that is too big. Right? From the left perspective, because otherwise your math doesn't math, as one of my friends says, like you just can't get there.

[Guest Speaker]

But surely they know we're never going to get there, though.

[Molly Roberts]

See, this is where, this is where you and I can have that discussion of maybe some chunk of them are just Bernie. People who think that like government needs to control all of this stuff. And so if you can, like, you know, there's that crowd and this is my mind, right? Okay, so you and I kind of share that mind, but there's like a whole nother crowd that like they've been told they grew up in California, they've been told in school that climate change, like I had somebody at my house the other day who said that they were terrified of climate change. Number one issue, climate change, Right.

[Guest Speaker]

Did you kick them out?

[Molly Roberts]

Look, my immediate reaction was what is Your number. What are you doing about climate change? And the number one thing they're doing about climate change is composting. So we clearly have an issue where the thing they're doing doesn't have anything to do with the thing that the life's got some problems. But at the end of the day, there is a cohort of people who, they've been told that the world's ending, that they have to do X to make the world not end. And so they're going to, by damn it, do X. Right. But I do think that a lot of this does stem from, like, government control. And if you tell people that they can't use too much, I mean, look, we made a video called 2030, and it's all about what it will be like in California in a net zero world. And you see that the government meters how much electricity you can use. You have to use only so much hot water because you basically are allowed an allotment of carbon emissions on a given day. And so if your kid takes a hot shower, you can't take a hot shower. Your lights turn off at the end of your day, your electric car, you can't have a fan at the office. So the company can hit their net zero targets. Right. Like, it just. It is to your mind and my mind. Nothing gives the government more ability to control every aspect of your life than telling you exactly how much electricity and power you're allowed to use. You ask somebody who comes from Venezuela and you tell them what the ESG people are pushing, and their immediate reaction is, that's how they control your life, because that's what they did in Venezuela. Right. There's another component of people that I think is just like, well, this is how I'm going to solve climate change. And you and I are like, you're not going to actually do that. And they're like, no, no, but we need to try. So I don't know. It's a mix.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I'm with you because, remember, even AOC's former chief of staff, I can't remember his name, but he basically said that the Green New Deal was a how do you control the entire economy? Type thing.

[NFL Announcer]

Right.

[Molly Roberts]

I mean, you. Okay, so look, so, like, you know, it's like we're talking, just the two of us, nobody else is listening.

[Oh Skinner]

Yeah.

[Molly Roberts]

You know, I think that explains a lot of this. Right. Like, but I do think you have these people who aren't thinking about the logical endpoint. And I just want to give some credit that there are chunks of Them out there. I mean, I have heard, okay, so you asked about the craziest thing in corporate America. I finally remember my craziest thing in corporate America. I have heard from friends that they were sitting in meetings at giant mega death corps that sell lots of stuff, okay? So like imagine a big box store that like you or I have been inside of, okay? And somebody was legitimately advocating that to meet their net zero target they should stop selling beef products in the grocery at their store. And somebody else is like, people like buying hamburger at our store. We're just going to remove it because then it's good for the climate. Because you know, the little reveal is that the left thinks that all the cows should go away because they can't make their math math with the cows, just to be clear. But there is literally sitting there and a person who works for a company is advocating removing all of the beef products from their entire store all across America in the name of climate justice, basically. And this person is like slack jawed looking at them being like, why on earth would we stop selling something to customers that they like and that we have, right? You know, but that was a discussion in corporate America in 2024 because of these. There's people who think of this ESG stuff and that's not the AOC staffer, that's somebody who's been infected by the bug that the AOC staffer sent over the wall, right? And they're like advocating for like a very anti consumer move at a very consumer facing company. And it was like not laughed out of the room. I mean it was eventually laughed out of the room, but it took a while.

[Guest Speaker]

How much do you think this past election was? Just Americans being like, I want to return to normalcy, you know, because the past four years have been totally abnormal. As you talked about, oh, you don't need air conditioning, you know, bread lines are great. Or you know, men can be women, women can be men. You know what I mean? Like just we've lived in a totally bizarre world for like four years. And so how much of this past election do you think was just like, get off my lawn, I want to be normal again?

[Molly Roberts]

You know, I think it's, I think it describes everything. Look, the vast majority of Americans don't think of themselves as political animals. They just want, they just want life to be good and normal. Right? And if you buy what they were saying before, you know, if you buy the narratives about the last election, they are. Two elections ago people were voting for Joe Biden because they thought he was like a return to like a bygone era and normalcy. And what they got to your point was bans on gas stoves and, like, making your dishwasher worse and, you know, boys and girls locker rooms. And I think a logical conclusion is whatever I voted for, it's not this. I just want, like, life to be normal. I want to be able to go to the store and buy hamburger and drive my car that is powered by gasoline and then go and actually have and, like, cook it at home without the government telling me what I can and can't use. Right. I think that really sums up a lot of people's views and I think it's a good thing. And I think that the pressure that you're seeing under the Trump administration against DEI and a lot of these things at the federal level is going to be so comforting to people because it'll manifest itself in just like, no, like life will just look normal at stores again, which would be really nice.

[Podcast Host]

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[Molly Roberts]

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[Oh Skinner]

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[Colby Ekowitz]

We've all done it. You see a headline but don't have time to read the whole story or there's so much news you're not sure what is worth your time. Colby I'm Colby Ekowitz, co host of Post Reports, the weekday afternoon podcast from the Washington Post. Post Reports brings you what's relevant and revealing. Breaking stories, politics, wellness, culture. Each episode goes beyond a headline for the context you need. Find Post Reports now wherever you're listening.

[NFL Announcer]

The wait is almost over. Get ready for the NFL season like never before with the highly anticipated 2025 NFL Schedule release. Every rivalry, every rematch, every rookie debut, every game revealed, the dates will be set, prime time matchups will be known, and the road to the super bowl starts here. The full NFL schedule release this Wednesday. Get all of the [e-mail] schedule release.

[Guest Speaker]

We've seen them kind of come out the gate already and with a lot of these DEI executive orders and really sending the message that, you know, this nonsense is over. We're going back to a meritocracy. We're going back to normalcy and common sense. You know, what sort of long lasting changes do you think the Trump administration can make? And are they, are they going about it the right way right now? And what else would you like to see from them to make those longer lasting changes?

[Molly Roberts]

I mean they have the ability to make huge changes to the extent that it'll be the first time with the like Post Students for Fair Admissions versus Harvard, which is a huge Supreme Court case that like we haven't talked about, but it's really important. Now the entire Department of Justice and the entire White House has US Supreme Court case law saying that like you cannot discriminate in America based on race, even if you're Harvard and even if you're trying to do it in a like altruistic way in your own words, right? No, you're not allowed to discriminate based on race. Full stop. America gets to go back to being like a colorblind society. Now with that in their hand, they finally have the ability, it'll be the first Republican administration with the will and the law on their side to basically create pressure on corporate America. And the number one thing they can do is just follow through on the eos and investigate companies. You know, you asked a question earlier that I didn't answer, which is when one company gets a boycott, what message does that send to the other market participants? They all immediately change their behavior. So if one or two companies in an industry get taken out into the schoolyard and just like, you know, metaphorically, you know, get smacked around by the law of anti discrimination law in America, using the Department of Justice and the Department of Civil Rights and made an example of for the crazy stuff that they've been doing, the rest of them are going to stop it. They're going to just shut it down, right? Their lawyer is going to walk around and be like, we're done. We're not doing any of that anymore. And the more of that that happens, the more corporate America gets locked into the middle, not being liberal, not being conservative, which frankly, that's a good place for it to be because it's supposed to sell things to both types of people in America. And so the, you know, what I just want to see is this, the cadence just keeps going, right? Because it's been a focus at the beginning and now just get it implemented. And the more pressure it more, the more it sets corporate America free. And I think if there's four years of pressure, I don't think you're ever going to see corporate America writ large go crazy to the left anymore because we will have trained them that there's pressure on the right and there's pressure on the left. And when there's two types of pressure, you just chart a course through the middle.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, from your lips to God's ear. So let's, let's keep the pressure.

[Molly Roberts]

I mean, I'm looking forward to it. You know, I, and I just, I just want people to like be able to buy things from companies that aren't trying to tell them how to live their lives. That's a good thing if we can get there.

[Guest Speaker]

And that's kind of what you guys are doing at the alliance for Consumers.

[Molly Roberts]

Yeah, we fight really hard to just. Look, there's. There was a long time where companies stopped fighting back against crazy stuff and they started being the implementers. And at the end of the day, consumers just want, you know, they want simple things. They want to be able to go to the store without getting mugged. They want there to be things on the store shelves when they get there that haven't been robbed. And they would like to not be socially lectured while they're at the store. And they would like the government to let them buy this kind of grill or that, this kind of sink or that without it being entirely dictated by AOC's chief of staff. And if you can just let them do that, they'll vote with their feet and they'll buy the things they want and they'll live the lives they want. If you live in a coastal enclave of California, you'll buy a tiny electric car and the super expensive dishwasher, and, you know, maybe you'll go without air conditioning. And if you live in Plano, Texas, you'll buy a Suburban for your four kids, and you'll buy a normal house with normal cars and normal dishwashers, because that's the life you're choosing to live. And that's fine. I'm fine with a crazy person in coastal California living a crazy life. They're allowed to be weird, but I think most people who live in Eden Prairie, Minnesota or Plano, Texas, should also be allowed to, like, buy a car and have three kids. I just think that's like, a normal thing to do.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, like, I don't want to be weird.

[Molly Roberts]

Yes. Most Americans just like most Americans are busy with their kids and their lives, and they're not thinking about how they could squeeze an extra 2% efficiency out of their dishwasher in exchange for an extra $3,000. That's a Nancy Pelosi problem. That's not a family in Plano, Texas problem. And along the way, the government got confused and they started making it, you know, we call it mandated progressive lifestyle choices. They're just trying to, like, mandate the Nancy Pelosi Marin, California crazy lifestyle onto the rest of the country, rather than just letting those people be them and the rest of the country be normal America.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, Skinner, it was great to meet you recently and great to have you on the podcast. I really appreciate your time.

[Molly Roberts]

This has been fun.

[Podcast Host]

That was. Oh, Skinner. Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday. But you can listen throughout the week. Until next time.

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[Oh Skinner]

Lenovo.

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[Oh Skinner]

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[Greenlight Representative]

There's an efficient way to get caught up on a lot of news. It's called the seven from the Washington Post. It's a newsletter and podcast. Whether you're reading or hit play, you get seven stories you need to know and you can consume it all in just a few minutes. The 7 is out every weekday morning by 7:00am Eastern. I'm Hannah Jewell. I'm one of the writers and I host the show Find the seven Podcast wherever you're listening. The newsletter link is waiting for you in the show Notes.

[NFL Announcer]

The wait is almost over. Get ready for the NFL season like never before with the highly anticipated 2025 NFL Schedule release. Every rivalry, every rematch, every rookie debut, every game revealed, the dates will be set, primetime matchups will be known, and the road to the super bowl starts starts here. The full NFL Schedule release this Wednesday. Get all of the [e-mail] schedulerelease.

[Molly Roberts]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.