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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Trump’s America First Strategy Delivers Historic Middle East Peace
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- [00:00]
Lisa Booth
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Jacob Goldstein
This is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at o d o o.com that's o d o o dot com.
- [00:37]
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- [00:42]
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- [00:57]
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- [01:16]
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- [01:43]
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- [02:19]
Commercial Announcer
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- [02:48]
Lisa Booth
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you today. We're joined by Fred Flights. He's the vice Chairman of the America First Policy Policy Institute. He's also a former chief of staff of the National Security Council under President Trump. He's here to unpack this historic Israel Hamas ceasefire deal and announcing it. President Trump said it's a step toward strong, durable and everlasting peace. Now, it's been brokered with some key mediators involving Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, as well as his son in law. Now, this is the first phase of the agreement which is set to release all hostages and, and initiate Israeli troop withdrawals. It sparked global attention with, you know, so many people calling it historic, even some of President Trump's foes, we'll call them. So we're going to dig into the implications, you know, the risks, could it break down and what it means for lasting peace. I mean, what could the Middle east look like at the end of a President Trump administration? So stay tuned for Fred Flights on this breaking historic news. Well, Fred, it's great to have you on Big, big news out of the Middle East. So looking forward to getting your insight into all of it. So appreciate you taking the time.
- [04:07]
Fred Flights
It's good to be here.
- [04:08]
Lisa Booth
So I guess just basic initial reaction after, you know, Israel and Hamas have reached this first phase of a peace deal, which, you know, we'll have the hostages freed and then Israel will be withdrawing from most of Gaza. Kind of walk us through initial reaction. Where you think things stand now and just your, your general thoughts on all of this?
- [04:29]
Fred Flights
Well, it's not certain that the other stages of the agreement will go slowly. I think they'll be implemented. But we can't overemphasize the significance of what was agreed to here. That both sides agreed to immediate ceasefire, that Hamas agreed to release all of the Israeli hostages, not to trickle them out, which is what we thought they do. And frankly, some people thought they would never release them. And that Israel agreed to a ceasefire and to withdraw from part of Gaza and that Hamas agreed to a deal without Israel withdrawn from all of the strip. These are all very significant concessions by both sides. And I think they show that this is a very strong agreement. It has very broad support. And the reason for this is because of the leadership of President Trump, he didn't take no for an answer. He slogged through a variety of other plans that failed. While the Europeans were busy trying to appease Hamas by recognizing a Palestinian state with no concessions by Hamas, Trump's people were fighting hard behind the scenes with Arab states, with the Israelis, to nail down something that everyone could agree to. And it's such a good agreement. Hamas is nowhere else to go. The Arabs are solidly behind what Trump wants to do in even the Palestinian Authority, which never supports these deals, it is behind it. So I think that either Hamas is facing destruction or disagreement.
- [05:56]
Lisa Booth
Is that why you think Hamas, you know, finally, you know, is playing ball or trying to negotiate here? Is it, you know, I mean, were they just up against a wall, no other options, or why do you think they finally decided to capitulate?
- [06:09]
Fred Flights
I think they're up against a wall and they're being put under enormous pressure by, by Qatar and Saudi Arabia at. I think they're going to make trouble on what their role will be. They shouldn't have, they shouldn't have any role in Gaza after the peace agreement. They have to be disarmed. That was not part of this deal in the first stage. It is part of the agreement and subsequent stage, how Gaza will be governed. They have expressed objections to what's in the agreement, but the priority was to save human life, to get the hostages out, and to work on these portions of the agreement later. I think the Israelis and the Trump administration is confident that they will, they will prevail on these provisions, these provisions of the agreement, but it hasn't been agreed to yet.
- [06:57]
Lisa Booth
If Hamas releases the hostages, as you know, we're hoping will happen now, like, what leverage do they have after that point? Like, what leverage do they have to try to stay in governance in, you know, along the Gaza Strip?
- [07:12]
Fred Flights
Well, I mean, one could argue they're losing leverage, but on the other hand, these hostages won't be alive much longer, so they're eventually, they eventually won't have any live hostages. So I think their leverage, as limited as it is, is that they could keep fighting and engaging in acts of terrorism and, and by agreeing to, to stop the fighting, you know, that's, that's what they're offering. And in exchange for that, if, if members of Hamas don't want to live in peace in Gaza, they'll be allowed. They'll be given free passage out of Gaza. I have to say, I don't know who's going to take them. Maybe Turkey. I'd like to send them all to Iran, but I don't think the Iranians would take them either.
- [07:52]
Lisa Booth
Which really tells you something, right? You know, you look at President Trump sort of naming and Giving credit to, you know, countries like Qatar, as you mentioned, Egypt and Turkey. How much of this was made possible by President Trump? Well, one, obviously the Abraham Accords during the first administration, but then during this administration as well, really spending time in the Middle east and sort of fostering those relationships. How much of this deal is predicated on that?
- [08:24]
Fred Flights
Well, let me put it this way. Trump was elected on November 5. On November 12, he named his Middle east special envoy, Steve Witkoff, who immediately flew to Qatar. Trump didn't wait to be inaugurated to try to stop this deal. And Witkoff negotiated a deal on January 19, before Trump was inaugurated, that, that freed 30 hostages over three months and resulted in a shaky three month ceasefire, which later collapsed. But this was Trump right out of the gate, right after he's elected, before he's even president, pushing on this. Trump never gave up. He was hard on Hamas, he was hard on the Arabs, he was hard on Netanyahu. He was seen as an honest broker. It's unprecedented, Lisa. That's why we got this agreement.
- [09:13]
Lisa Booth
You look at just sort of the initial reaction. I mean, even people who don't love Trump, like praising this, praying, praising the historic nature of this. Why do you think President Trump, you know, obviously we're still cautiously optimistic, but why do you think he was able to do this when, you know, really no one else has been able to?
- [09:33]
Fred Flights
I think there's no question he's the strongest pro Israel president in history. But Trump also hates war. I guess we all hate war. But Trump has said repeatedly when it comes to the conflict in Gaza, the conflict in Ukraine, he just wants to stop the killing. He'll, he'll negotiate other aspects of agreements later, but the killing has to stop. He's been stubbornly arguing this for years, not simply over the last year since he became elected president. I think he's made the point to Netanyahu. You can't fight forever. We have to find a way out of this. And look, there's concessions in this deal that Netanyahu is not happy with. It proposes a role for the Palestinian Authority in governing Gaza in the future. When the Palestinian Authority and the Palestinians are de radicalized, it provides a pathway for a Palestinian state when the Palestinians are de radicalized. Netanyahu hates those ideas. He says they're never going to happen. And frankly, they won't if the Palestinians don't actually de radicalize and stop teaching the people as children to kill and hate Jews. So maybe it's a distant aspiration, but Trump succeeded in getting a deal that The Israelis agreed to that, had this in it. And that is why it has universal Arab support.
- [10:45]
Lisa Booth
You know, I guess that's, that's the broader, you know, concern here of, you know, one, disarming Hamas and then two, you know, what role in governing do they have in the future? I mean, if you're Israel, you know, how, how can you really live alongside people who slaughtered, you know, 1200 of your citizens? What do you think? You know, hammering out some of these bigger and very important details, like kind of talk us through, give us some insight and how like those deals get worked out, like sort of, what, what are these, you know, from you being inside the room in the past with the Trump administration, kind of like, what does this look like in the days ahead here?
- [11:28]
Fred Flights
Well, we have Witkoff and we have Jared Kushner, who have enormous credibility and Kushner for negotiating the Abraham Accords, working with Arab states who are intermediaries with Hamas, trying to press them to make the concessions they have to make to move forward. And you know, you mentioned disarming Hamas. That is still a sticking point. I haven't heard Hamas agreeing that it's going to give up its weapons and destroy them. It has said it wants to keep defensive weapons. And I mean, we also have to be realistic. Lisa, these radical Islamist terrorists who hate Israel, they're not going away. Israel has to keep its guard up. It has to assume there will be terrorists who will try to attack it again. This may, hopefully long term, maybe temporarily address the terrorist threat for Hamas. But look, Israel's not Israeli leaders. They're not fooling themselves. Hamas has proven itself to be liars, treacherous liars. Hopefully this is going to succeed, but at a minimum, at a minimum, it's going to get the hostage out of Gaza.
- [12:31]
Lisa Booth
I meant disarming as sort of a broader ambition. That was obviously, you know, laid out in the broader like 20 point deal and obviously something that Israel would like to see. Got to take a quick commercial break and more with Fred on the other side.
- [12:47]
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- [13:58]
Lisa Booth
Why don't you just say you look.
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- [14:20]
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- [14:54]
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- [14:58]
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- [15:12]
Fred Flights
Whoa.
- [15:12]
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- [15:13]
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- [15:32]
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- [16:03]
Lisa Booth
What do you think the Middle east could look like at the end of a Trump administration? And, you know, Potentially, if, like, J.D. vance or someone like minded gets into office, I know, you know, when he went over to Saudi Arabia a few months ago, he said the, the future of the Middle east is through commerce, not chaos. You know, in a hopeful way, like, what could the Middle east look like by the time he's done in office?
- [16:27]
Fred Flights
I think we could have an expanded Abraham Accords, maybe the Saudis joining, maybe Oman joining. These states want peace and commerce. Trump was exactly right. They don't want to deal with terrorism. They don't. None of them. Like Hamas. As you said earlier, there's a reason that no state wants to take Hamas members or people from Gaza, because when have Palestinians left for other states in the past? They try to overthrow governments and commit acts of terror against other governments, the governments that were hosting them. I think it's very significant. If this deal succeeds, all of it succeeds. I think it's going to give Trump enormous leverage to solve the war in Ukraine. It's going to make him a very prominent, incredible, neutral arbiter. And I don't think it's going to be easy, but it may really give him the leverage he needs to get Putin and Zelensky to strike a deal.
- [17:20]
Lisa Booth
I just sort of giggle back, looking back to the 2016 presidential election, because, as you remember Hillary Clinton's line of attack, I think there was. She even did ads telling us that, like, Trump couldn't be trusted with the nuclear codes and, like, he was going to be reckless and like, you know, and then inevitably, like, he is the only one that seems to want peace around the world. And so it's, it's just sort of funny, you know, how wrong all of that was about him. You know, it's interesting because, you know, he didn't have a foreign policy background, right? You look at Steve Wickham, these are business guys. These are outsiders coming in. I, I guess what does that kind of tell us about some of the, like, foreign policy establishment and, you know, sort of these outsiders coming in and, like, turning everything upside down a little bit?
- [18:08]
Fred Flights
I think it tells me that we need to have outsiders as president who are not a part of the foreign policy establishment, who are not neocons, who simply want to engage in bureaucracy and have interagency meetings and, frankly, do nothing. Trump's attitude is, get this done. Oh, so they won't agree to this peace deal, Go negotiate another one. He wasn't taking no for an answer. He's a businessman. He doesn't do things the way businesses do them. I, I Respect that. And he came out of his first term with the Abraham Accords, which every neutral observer has recognized as a very significant diplomatic achievement. But this one will be so much more significant.
- [18:48]
Lisa Booth
We talk about peace through strength, but I don't think any of this would have been made possible if, you know, that's not how he had been governing. Right. Because you look at Biden, you know, he said, don't, and then other country, you know, their enemies did. You know, President Trump has demonstrated that when he draws a red line, you know he means it. So when he gave Hamas this deadline, they knew that he wasn't messing around, that he was being truthful. Kind of walk us through just the importance of peace through strength and then also, you know, drawing red lines and our enemies and friends and allies knowing that it's a true red line.
- [19:28]
Fred Flights
I believe that America first approach US national security means a strong and decisive president with a strong military and a president who used military force when necessary, but keeps our country out of unnecessary wars. And I think Trump has proven that across the board. But when you have a president like Biden who was seen as weak and incompetent, his foreign policy priority was climate change. There was the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan. He was seen as so incompetent, so weak, that our enemies had a field day. They all took advantage of his weakness. Russia invaded Ukraine. There was this Hamas massacre against Israel. These things would not have happened if we had a strong and decisive president. And Biden surrounded himself by people who were even more incompetent. I don't think he wanted to have officials who would outshine him on foreign policy. It hurt our country. It hurt global security, and good riddance to Joe Biden.
- [20:23]
Lisa Booth
Why do you think some of these Middle Eastern leaders seem to respect President Trump in a way that, you know, they didn't with Biden or Obama.
- [20:33]
Fred Flights
You know, they respect strength, and they also respect a president who understands that you have to have good relationships with other nations. You know, the Saudi royal family and Biden hated each other. Biden insulted them before he became president. But what did Trump do in his first official foreign trip? He went to the Gulf because he wanted to make peace in the Middle East. And I think his meetings with the Saudis and with Qatar, they had a purpose. Peace through strength and commerce. It sent a message to them. He wanted to work with them to stop this war. He wanted to send a message also to Russia and to Iran and China. America shouldn't have permanent enemies. Make a peace deal with us, and we'll all grow prosperous.
- [21:17]
Lisa Booth
And while not destroyed, you know, the good news is that, you know, Ron, you know, nuclear ambitions have obviously been set back pretty substantially by the decisive actions of President Trump. And then, you know, Hezbollah and Hamas have been severely weakened as a result of Israel's efforts. As you, as you pointed away, they're not going away any of these enemies, but they've, they've been set back at the very least.
- [21:44]
Fred Flights
That's exactly right. Now, Israel did a lot of this when, when Israel was attacked on October 7, it took out all the allies of Hamas that were also at war with Israel. And Israel and the United States dealt a devastating blow to Iran's nuclear program. This was Iran's fault. Iran decided to fire missiles at Israel. That gave Israel an opportunity to respond and to test Iran's air defense. It found it was probably much weaker than anyone thought and destroyed the defenses defending its nuclear sites. And when Iran would not make a deal with Trump, he said, look, you have 50 days. When Iran didn't do that, Israel and the US took out their nuclear sites, including, as you know, bunker buster bombs by the US to destroy their deeply buried nuclear weapon sites.
- [22:31]
Lisa Booth
Well, and also all of this made possible without striking a weak nuclear deal like we saw under President Obama, which we were told was needed to keep Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.
- [22:41]
Fred Flights
That's exactly right. And I think there were efforts by the foreign policy establishment to cook the books a little bit and maybe you deceive the president into agreeing to another partial deal similar to Obama's. Trump didn't buy it and I give him a lot of credit for that because it's tempting to try to split the middle here. Well, maybe we'll let the Iranians enrich a little bit. The problem is that enrichment is only for making weapons. They have no reason to enrich uranium. And I'm so glad that's the position the President took.
- [23:10]
Lisa Booth
Very interesting. Fred Flights, appreciate I texted you last night, so I really appreciate you jumping on and breaking this down for us, this breaking news.
- [23:18]
Fred Flights
Good to be here.
- [23:19]
Lisa Booth
That was Fred Flights. Appreciate him for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. I also want to thank John Cassio for putting the show together. Until next time.
- [23:30]
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- [24:05]
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- [24:39]
Commercial Announcer
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- [25:10]
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