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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Why God Allows Suffering — Shannon Bream Breaks It Down
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- [00:00]
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Public Investing Advertiser
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this
- [02:07]
Jacob Goldstein
is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? Business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it Gets confusing, slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting, all linked and talking to each other. Check out Odoo at O D O o dot com. That's O D O o dot com.
- [02:51]
Bethenny Frankel
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- [03:27]
Lisa Booth
Welcome back to the Truth with Lisa Booth where we get to the heart of the issues that matter to you today. I am thrilled to welcome Shannon Bream to the show. She is a colleague of mine, Fox News anchor. Also just one of the kindest people you'll ever meet. God's light really does radiate through her. But she's also the author of her fourth straight New York Times number one best selling books, Nothing is Impossible. With God out now you can go get it. It's a powerful book. She dives into the stories of 11 biblical heroes who have faced fear, failure, waiting, doubt and pain. All the things that we experience in our own lives. Yet they discover that with God nothing is impossible. So we're talking real life encouragement for anyone feeling stuck, weary that they're not enough. And we're going to talk about how God works through these imperfect people. Turns their pain into purpose and shows up even in our longest in between seasons where we feel like we have been waiting for for forever. So stay tuned for the great Shannon Bream. Well, Shannon Bream, it's such an honor to have you on the show. You are one of the kindest people in the industry and I'm so happy for you. You've got another number one times bestseller which is not an easy thing to do. So congratulations.
- [04:47]
Shannon Bream
Thank you. You know, it's a team effort and I gotta say, our Fox Books team, which has launched this just, you know, a few years ago, has just had amazing success with us.
- [04:55]
Lisa Booth
Well, and no doubt because of a lot of books that you've written as well, I'm really interested in talking to you about this new book, Nothing Is Impossible With God, because it's so relatable on so many fronts. We've all got issues. We've all got.
- [05:08]
Shannon Bream
Yes, we do.
- [05:09]
Lisa Booth
And your book really gets into that, using these different examples to sort of let us know that we're not alone, both historically and biblically. So we'll just start off. You say nothing is impossible with God. You know, for someone right now who is listening and just feels stuck right now, what does it look. Look like in real life, everyday life, that nothing is impossible with God.
- [05:31]
Shannon Bream
You know, these 11 stories from the Bible that I included, they all include moments of that. And, you know, Ecclesiastes says there's nothing new under the sun. So whether it's a physical challenge, a financial challenge, a broken family, feeling oppression, your own failures, I mean, all of those things, I think translate into 2026. So we've all walked through things like that. I would not have chosen the really dark, hard valleys in my life, but I can see with some retrospect what God was up to and what he was working on. So my hope is that when people dip into these characters, meet these people, they may feel like, okay, I'm walking through something similar. I can see how there is good that could potentially come from this. And maybe my prayers aren't answered exactly the way that I want. We see that in the Bible too. But God is always listening and answering our prayers, and he is working at a level that sometimes we can't understand in the worst of those moments.
- [06:23]
Lisa Booth
And I think what's really special too, is. And you tell these stories as well. But God uses imperfect people. And I think those testimonies actually go really far with people. Right. Because there's so many people are saying, I can't be a Christian, I've messed up. I've done X, Y, and Z, what have you. And then, no, God uses imperfect people throughout the Bible. And you tell those stories as well in Nothing's Impossible with God.
- [06:48]
Shannon Bream
Why. Why do.
- [06:49]
Lisa Booth
Why do you think it's so important that God used people who were imperfect?
- [06:53]
Shannon Bream
Well, it's good news for all of us because then it means that us as sinful, flawed people who often feel like, I've messed up so much, God couldn't love me or he could never use me. He gives Us, example after example in the Bible. And I find that so encouraging, personally. Like, we're never beyond the reach of his redemption or of his kindness or of his fellowship or of his love, most certainly. And I think Peter is one of the stories that I included that is the best illustration of that, because he was so close to Jesus. He was in that inner, inner circle with him. And yet he even got things wrong sometimes. He didn't even really realize who Jesus was, even though he walked so closely with him. And there were times, too, that he was, you know, he was such a passionate, fiery guy. Like, he spoke in, you know, just extremes, like always. And never, like when Jesus told him at the Last Supper, you're going to betray me. Peter just couldn't fathom that he would do that. And he's like, never, never, Lor. Even if I have to die with you, I would never do that. And yet it was just a matter of hours later that he did that. And it broke his own heart. It crushed him that in the moment when his. His friend needed him, going off to that sham trial and to the crucifixion, that, you know, he was the one who turned his back on him. So instead of being true to his friend, he betrayed him, just as Jesus said he would. And I've often thought, you know, that weekend before that first Easter resurrection, how brokenhearted Peter must have been, not maybe understanding that Jesus was going to come back and defeat death and sin, rise from the grave. I mean, he probably felt like, how in the world could I have done this to him? But when Jesus does come back, he doesn't say, hey, you're totally disqualified. You left me. You betrayed your faith. He doesn't do that. He goes to Peter and he talks him through lovingly bringing him back, repairing that relationship, and then obviously using him to build the early church. He'd renamed Peter the rock. He was the rock of the early church. So I love that every single one of these people is flawed, because then it means that, you know, us being flawed, we can be part of God's plan, too. Well, yeah.
- [08:54]
Lisa Booth
And even if you're walking closely with Jesus, you can still fall.
- [08:58]
Shannon Bream
Yes.
- [08:58]
Lisa Booth
There's even redemption for. For that as well. So this next question is a little bit. I ask it selfishly. It's about periods. It's about periods of waiting. You know, a lot of these figures that, you know, they didn't have instant breakthroughs. They had long periods of waiting in life. What do you say to people who are in those in between periods, who you know, they've got these dreams and these desires, and they haven't. They haven't quite gotten there yet.
- [09:24]
Shannon Bream
Listen, I can totally relate because I think sometimes people will look at your life at the moment. It is now the snapshot in time, like, oh, you're successful, and this is working, and that's working. When everybody who gets to that place has had failures, and we'll have other failures. And I had times of waiting where I just felt like I was beating my head against a brick wall. Like, why is nothing working? All these things. I'm working hard, I'm believing, I'm praying, I'm trying, and I'm just stuck, like, grinding in neutral. And whether that's personally or professionally, I think we all can relate to periods of that. And, you know, I think about that in the Bible over and over again. We see people who are waiting for God to answer. I think about, you know, Hannah in the Old Testament when she was desperately wanting a child. You know, we see her in prayer in the synagogue, weeping, and so overcome with wanting this child that the priest essentially kicks her out. He thinks she's drunk. Like, get out of here drunk. And she's like, no, no, no, you don't understand. You know, I'm just pouring out my heart in this. In this brokenness over wanting this precious child, which eventually came to be. But it just reminds us that, you know, there are times of waiting where we. We learn patience. I often tell the story about getting fired from my very first TV job. And it was not pleasant. I would not have chosen that. I do not recommend getting fired, but I spent months and months and months looking for my next job, for somebody to take a chance on me. And there was a lot of time there to pray and say, like, all right, Lord, I know you're teaching me something in this, but this is really painful. To not have a paycheck, to feel like I've blown up my whole life, my career is destroyed. I get the waiting period. But I can look back on it now and see that I was actually learning things. And sometimes my thick skull, I got to learn them the hard way.
- [11:03]
Lisa Booth
Well, Shannon, we share that in common. I was also fired. It was kind of my fault because I gave them an ultimatum. And I was younger, and I thought I kind of, like, had the cards. And then they're like, the other one, you're fired.
- [11:16]
Shannon Bream
And relationships, too. Like, if you don't do X, Y, and Z, then I'm out of here. And they're like, well, I guess it's not gonna work.
- [11:22]
Lisa Booth
It's deeply humbling. And I honestly think it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. And I learned, I learned it was a character building lesson.
- [11:30]
Shannon Bream
Hey, character building, that's a good way to put it.
- [11:33]
Lisa Booth
Exactly. I think it's healthy, everyone, but don't force it because, you know, I deserved it. We also, in that vein, you know, we experience self doubt. You know, so many of us do. Even, even if you're, you're riding high and things are going well, there's still that doubt. Like Moses questioned whether he was capable. So walk us through that, that, you know, even the strongest people, the most capable people, still struggle with, am I good enough? Can I do this? I fulfill God calling.
- [12:02]
Shannon Bream
Exactly right. They don't often start that way. A lot of these people were able to meet them where they have enormous self doubt and fear about what God is calling them to. We see that with Gideon and with Moses. They're some of the best stories for looking at that particular principle. And what it requires is stepping out in faith on the next thing, just the next thing. I mean, if God told us our whole story, we'd probably be overwhelmed by every dip and valley and mountaintop that would happen in our lives. And you know, when Moses, you know, God comes to him in a burning bush and I think we'd all freak out. I'm just going to speak for myself. I would definitely freak out in that moment or these times where an angel shows up to people. But instead of Moses saying like, lord, okay, you send me, I'm going to go. As we see some faithful people do in the Bible, most of them have a little bit of apprehension on the front end of their story. And Moses is like, I can't speak. I'm not the person. You've got the wrong person. We're essentially telling God he's wrong. You know, you're, we're going to argue and reason with God like, nope, this assignment or what you've chosen me for, can't do it. You got the wrong person. But God doesn't abandon them there. I think he works them through. And with Gideon, you see his story too. He meets them where they're at, he understands their fear as human beings and he provides for them every little step of the way. But they've got to take that next little step of faith. So when you have self doubt, I mean, that's definitely one of the things that we all have to work to overcome at some point. But if you know God is with you and Leading you, Trusting him takes faith. That's what it is. That's what faith is, is stepping out where we don't see the guarantee of success or of some happy ending, but just trusting that he has a purpose in that journey. And so both in Moses and Gideon, we see enormous, enormous growth in their faith and their trust and everything that God told them. You know, when Gideon is met by the Lord, God addresses him as mighty warrior. And Gideon's anything but. I mean, he's hiding out, he's trying to do his work in secret. He's afraid. And he too, tries to argue with God. Nope, I'm not the guy. But by the end of it, he has turned into that mighty warrior. And by the end of it, Moses is this ascendant, esteemed, brave leader. So they might not have started out that way, but through taking those steps of faith, that's where they ended up.
- [14:13]
Lisa Booth
You know, and we see, too, how God shapes us through pain. We've experienced this recently as a country, even just witnessing, you know, Charlie Kirk get murdered. And a lot of people will say, well, how could God allow that? I mean, you look at Charlie Kirk, someone who really lived, lived out his faith bravely. You know, he. He wore it on his heart. His sleeve is, you know, and followed the Bible. And so it's like, how does God allow things like that? What is the Bible? And. And what do you write about in your book, about how God sometimes uses that pain to shape us?
- [14:52]
Shannon Bream
Yeah, I mean, I share a little bit of my own story. I always think, you know, the more transparent and vulnerable we are with each other, that's really the best way to relate to each other and to be of some help. And so I had serious health struggles myself, and for a period of almost two years, lived in just chronic pain. That was often a 10 out of 10, going doctor to doctor, trying to get a diagnosis, and feeling really, really depressed and despondent during that, and just crying out to the Lord, if, you know, at one point, okay, if you're not going to heal me, if that's not your plan with this. I kept thinking about Paul in Corinthians where he has that thorn in his side, and he's like, all right, I've asked you. And the Lord has said no three times. I'm not going to heal this. I just said, if you're not going to heal me, I have to understand and accept that. But will you lead me to somebody, please? At least lead me to the right doctor. And within a very short period of time, Got to the right doctor, got the diagnosis. I deal with a cornea disease. That's genetic. It's not. There's no cure for it. But this doctor has been amazing and through God's grace, has provided me a way to live with this and to be pain free most of the time and to get the treatments I needed and all of those things, manage this. But that gave me a lot more empathy for people who are suffering. When you live in that place, it's just very dark. So what I felt like God was growing me closer to him. Most certainly there was a deeper fellowship there in his presence in that valley. There's an empathy to really care more about other people's suffering in that. And, you know, Joseph is included in this book. Nothing is impossible with God. And if there's anybody who faced injustices, may we be, you know, as faithful as Joseph was. I mean, his brothers hated him. They were jealous. He was the dad's favorite. They decided they were going to kill him. And then they were like, no, let's just walk back one step from that. We're going to sell him into slavery, into a foreign country where we'll never see him again. Who cares what happens to him? And then we're going to let our father think that he was killed by wild animals. I mean, it was just so deceptive and devious. And he, you know, he's such a man of honor. He continues to rise to the top wherever he is planted. And then at one point, when he's risen to the house of, you know, managing the household of one of the top leaders in Egypt, he's falsely accused by the wife of sexual assault, goes to prison for that, not having done it. He's there for years. He meets someone along the way that he helps them, and they say, when I get out of here, I am going to make sure that you get out of here. They totally forget about him. So it's like 20 years of Joseph facing injustice after injustice, which makes absolutely no sense on paper. And yet at the end of it, what we see is that his brothers come back where he is now, the number two in Egypt. He's again risen because of his integrity and his faith in God. And there's a famine all through the land. His brothers come looking for food. Joseph is in a position. They don't recognize him. He's in a position to save his family. That's the family, that's the Hebrew people, the genesis of Israel. And he's placed in that place and time to do that. And when he finally reveals himself. I can't imagine the freak out that his brothers had. I mean, to ask questions about this one day in heaven. I just have so many. But what Joseph says, he's graceful. And what he says to them is, what you meant for evil, God meant for good. So when we can't understand the evil of this world, the horrible things that happen, I have to believe that God is working. And man, Joseph, we don't see in the account of his life ever where he turns on God and says, how are you letting this happen to me? I don't know that I would be that faithful. But he's really an inspiration that when evil, bad things are happening to you, there can be good working through it.
- [18:22]
Lisa Booth
Yeah, unfortunately, I'm a little bit more stubborn than Joseph, you know, but it just kind of goes to show you that, you know, faith and God, you know, it doesn't insulate you from, like, the pain and the suffering of the world, but it does give you the strength to walk through it. Talk a little bit more about that.
- [18:42]
Shannon Bream
Yeah, I mean, again, like you said, none of us is going to be immune. And you think about the verse for this book is when Jesus is talking to his disciples and he says, you're going to have trouble in this world. You know, he doesn't sugarcoat it. He says, you're going to. But take heart, because I have overcome the world. And that's the closing chapter in this book. Nothing's impossible with God because Jesus overcomes everything that could ever threaten or harm us. He overcomes sin and death. And what I love is that because he walked this earth fully, man, fully, you know, God, at the same time, we know that he understands our suffering. We know that he knows what it's like to be tempted and exhausted and disregarded, disrespected and I mean physically tortured and beaten. I mean, he understands all of these things. So while we don't get a pass, as, you know, a believer, as a faithful person. And I used to think as a kid, like, all right, if you do everything right, you do all the Sunday school lessons, you know, you behave yourself, you don't run off into, you know, crazy rebellion. Your life is going to be easy. But that's just not true. And anyone who preaches that to you is not faithful to God's word. But what he does promise us is that we'll never be abandoned. We'll never be alone. And at my deepest, darkest moments, you know, when I left the doctor's office finally having a diagnosis, but him telling me there's no cure for this. I was just so despondent, sobbing and sobbing in my car, thinking I just can't go on and trying to understand, you know, God, where are you in this? And feeling him say not audibly, but unmistakably in my spirit, I will be with you. Not I'm going to heal you. This is all going to be fine. I'm going to wrap this up in a ne bow, but I'll be with you. And he is faithful to be with us through whatever we walk through. We're never, ever truly alone. And that's been a great piece to me. And like you said, the painful times. I think as much as I'd like to think, oh, when I'm riding high and on the mountaintop, I can be spiritually growing. You can. But there was a different kind of growth that has happened for me in my darkest moments.
- [20:43]
Lisa Booth
Yeah, I mean, I went through some health challenges last year and fortunately was just dealing with some dizziness. Unfortunately they figured out what was going on with me, but it was really, really scary. And to your point, it's challenging and frustrating when there is the unknown and you don't know what's going on with you and you know you're trying to get to the bottom of it and figure it out. We've got to take a quick break. Please stay with us. If you like what you're hearing, please share on social media or send it to your family and friends.
- [21:09]
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- [21:42]
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- [22:42]
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is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? Business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing. Slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting. All linked and talking to each other. Check out Odoo at o d o o.com that's o d o o.com this
- [23:26]
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- [24:12]
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- [24:44]
Lisa Booth
You know, a lot of people ask, well then why does God allow His people to suffer.
- [24:48]
Shannon Bream
Yeah. And I do think that's the hardest question and certainly one that I get from people who are searching and questioning faith, even faithful people. And I've. I've had questions with that, too. I don't think it's an easily answered question. I can only say this. You know, the world that God created for us, the original plan, which I believe in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, was they were in constant fellowship with God. It was a beautiful thing. I mean, there were no barriers, there was no sin, there was no deception. And that's the world he created for us. Now the world we have is this fallen world, which is full of evil. I believe good ultimately does overcome evil. That's how this story ends. That gives me hope in the midst of it. But the suffering in the here and now is really difficult to understand. God has given us free will, and that means that people make choices, and many times they are choices that hurt other people, that are devastating and that are evil. And. And so our world is so imperfect and so broken. So for us to find hope in the midst of that, I think is a really kind of miraculous thing. I don't know how people get through this life without faith. If you felt like, gosh, this is so broken and hard and evil, but there's no hope, it'd be tough to get out of bed in the morning. But for me, I think, you know, God understands. He sees he's trying to move us to a place where all will be made right. Every tear will be wiped away. That time is coming. It's not yet, but it is coming.
- [26:14]
Lisa Booth
Yeah. I mean, my biggest struggle is probably is I'm impatient.
- [26:21]
Shannon Bream
Yes, Shannon.
- [26:23]
Lisa Booth
My dad's favorite thing is just to text me back. Patience, period. And I'm like, oh, man.
- [26:28]
Shannon Bream
And is that not so hard? And, you know, I joke all the time about, like, don't pray for patients, because then you're going to be put in situations where you develop that muscle. I mean, that's the thing about faith, is that I find sometimes I'm like, oh, I don't want to walk through this painful or uncomfortable thing or this delay. But I know that you don't work out by not going to the gym. I mean, you have to test and strengthen and tear down the muscle to actually build it. So be careful praying for patients. But I'm with you. I mean, that's. You know, people are like, don't you ever lose it? I'm like, oh, yeah, you should see me in my commute. In my car. If there were a camera in there, I would be so canceled and wiped off the face of the earth because I just. Patience is not one of my best qualities, but I'm working on it.
- [27:08]
Lisa Booth
Yeah, I know. I always think I'm in the driver's seat, and then I'm quickly reminded that I'm not.
- [27:13]
Shannon Bream
Exactly. And that's such a good thing for us to remember now. I think it can be comforting, too, because, gosh, I don't want to be running this universe. I tend to be a micromanager. Like, I. I'm like, if I don't do it, it's not going to get done correctly, which is not true. And certainly I'm not running the world. So, thankfully, God is. He's perfect. He knows everything. He loves us perfectly. And he's just. And he's wise. And that should be someone running the universe, not me.
- [27:40]
Lisa Booth
We're seeing some young people come back to Christ, but we have seen sort of like a consistent downward trend of people who believe. So what do you make of where we are spiritually right now as a country? And obviously some good news there with some young people returning to faith.
- [27:58]
Shannon Bream
Yeah. And, you know, I followed the last couple of years, these huge revivals, I'm sure you have, too, that are happening on college campuses. And talked to a lot of people who've been behind those. And, you know, it was the wife, Tanya Pruitt, of an assistant basketball coach at Auburn, who a few years ago was, you know, having a Bible study and mentoring young students on campus. One thing sort of led to another. They start having these gatherings, and, you know, it turns into thousands of kids showing up on these, you know, secular college campuses, singing and praising and worship, being sitting and listening, looking for hope, do these mass baptisms. I mean, there's definitely something happening with young people. And, you know, I talked with Erica Kirk not long after Charlie was killed and said, do you think that there was a revival that was happening? Was Charlie part of this? Is his death now sparking a new part of this revival? What is it? And she's like, something was already happening there. And, you know, her hope has been that young people and people of all ages who. You remember how there were churches that were packed, that were running out of parking, places that were giving away free Bibles. I mean, all of that in the weeks after Charlie's death, and I've heard from a lot of pastors and people that their attendances stayed up, maybe not to the peak that it was right after he. We Lost him. But people who dug in, started asking questions, felt so inspired by him and so, you know, hurt and by the tragic loss that they really started looking for answers. And so this thing that's been happening on college campuses the last few years and Charlie's movement and all of those things, I think young people see that, you know, social media and the life of an influencer and all these things, they're hollow. I mean, you may have fun, of course there are all kinds of things that are fun in the short term that do give you some endorphins or some kind of high or some kind of approval, but they turn out to be very empty at some point. And I think young people are desperately looking for something authentic. And I've talked to people on college campuses too. Campus pastors, campus rabbis, campus priests, they're all saying that there is some return to faith for young people who are looking for something that is much more lasting than what world has been able
- [29:59]
Lisa Booth
to give them a real, real purpose in life. Shannon, is there anything else you'd like to leave us with before we go?
- [30:07]
Shannon Bream
Whatever you're facing in life, I just pray that you know, you'll be encouraged. Nothing is impossible with God is about encouraging you, but about equipping you too. They're practical things there. And again, these can be external things. I mean, people are actively working against you. We all see that in life. But also people who had self doubt, their own failures. The rebellion in the case of Jonah, who God told him to do something, he's like, nope, I'm going the exact opposite direction. It's easy to judge him until I realize like, oh yeah, I've done that too. So hopefully people will see themselves, they'll be encouraged, but also equipped with some practical things. You know, there's sort of a mini sermon that Moses gives the Israelites when he's, they've left Egypt. God has set them free from these centuries of slavery there and Pharaoh has finally let them go and then he changes his mind. So they're looking at the Red Sea, which is a no go for them. And they're looking behind them and here comes Pharaoh's army. And Moses, who started out so afraid, gives kind of this two verse little sermon there which is kind of don't be afraid, stand firm, watch for God's salvation for you. Be still and he will fight for you. And I think those are all things that I break down in the book and flesh them out that, you know, they're totally applicable in 2026. When you face a Red Sea and you're wondering how you're going to get through. So I hope that you'll be encouraged but also find some really practical things,
- [31:23]
Lisa Booth
too in the book Nothing Is Impossible With God. New York Times number one bestseller. Shannon, I'm so happy for you. You're just one of those people where God's light really does radiate through you. You're just, you've always been so kind, so nice. So I'm so happy for your success.
- [31:37]
Shannon Bream
Thank you. Yes. I mean, it's all about him and so I just glad to be the messenger pointing people in that direction. And Lisa, I hope I see you in person.
- [31:44]
Lisa Booth
I know I would love that. Hope to see you soon. Shannon, congrats on your success and thank you so much for making time for the show. I really appreciate it.
- [31:51]
Shannon Bream
God bless you.
- [31:51]
Lisa Booth
That was Shannon Bream. Appreciate her for taking the time to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. Also want to thank John Casio, my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time,
- [32:05]
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