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The Tudor Dixon Podcast: A WWII Hero’s Story of D-Day, Sacrifice, Faith & Freedom
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- [00:00]
Tudor Dixon
This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.
- [00:05]
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Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Becker, Snafeeza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.
- [00:34]
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Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It's IT screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com Disclosures A new year.
- [01:45]
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- [03:22]
Tudor Dixon
You are listening to the Tudor Dixon Podcast, and today we have a very special, special treat. We actually get to hear from someone from the greatest generation, Irving locker, who is 101 years young and a World War II veteran who landed on Utah beach on D Day, fought through the Battle of the Bulge, and helped to liberate Nazi concentration camps. He's one of the few remaining voices, and in my short time talking to him before we started recording, I can just tell he wants you to know this story. And I say that because I think so many of you. My generation grew up with grandparents who either were in the military or went to World War II, and we didn't have those stories. We couldn't get those stories from them. They just kind of shut that part off, compartmentalized that part of their lives away from us. And so that was why I asked Irving, are you sure? Is there any place we can't go? And he said, no, he wants everybody to hear it. So welcome to the podcast, Irving. Thank you so much for being here.
- [04:24]
Irving Locker
Thank you for inviting me. And just so you know, and your people know, the soldiers, the veterans don't want to talk about it because it brings back too many bad memories of a war and living the way we lived. And that's the reason that I don't want to talk about it. But that's why I try to lecture. I learned to thank God in the war, and I think that's what God wants me to do, is lecture. I don't charge any money and I drag all of my things there. But I lecture to people so that they know what we went through so that they could be free.
- [04:58]
Tudor Dixon
It's such a critical time, I think, to talk about this because as you and I discussed, there's a lot of chatter online right now. There are a lot of people who are denying that this even happened, denying the Holocaust, denying the things that you've told me that are so horrific that we need to understand, we need to know. These are things that I learned in school and I feel like we learned them great detail. We watched the, the video. We heard the President's voice, we heard the announcements. We heard the voice of Adolf Hitler. We heard these things. You know, I don't, my children haven't seen that. I will say my children and I don't know if it's that we have gotten too many generations away that we don't play those videos that they're not seeing, that I have a daughter in high school and I don't think she's ever seen any of the footage from World War II. So that's why I do believe that this story has to be told. And you are the one that you were on the beach.
- [05:55]
Irving Locker
I absolutely was on the beach. You have no idea what it is to land on these things. We went in on what they call the Higgins boat. People don't know that we transferred from the large boat to the LSTs, etc. Where the guns were still there. We transferred to the Higgins boat where the front door lays down, big ten foot door lays down. And I'd like your people to understand, I put out a YouTube. If they go on YouTube, they're going to see this in pictures all the way down the line. It's Irving Locker, my story on YouTube. And there's no charge as they go on that they're going to see what it is. But basically these boats took us in and dropped our doves, big doors. And 50 men ran off into that, into that ocean and into the field.
- [06:47]
Tudor Dixon
Sorry, tell us, take us back to that day. Because you were, you were, obviously you've trained, you've prepared for this. You've trained. There was training over in England. There were. Everybody was prepared, but they knew the weather was going to be an issue. So it was delayed a day. The nerves. What was the emotion in that time? I mean, it had to have been. You had to been geared up and then to hear it's delayed and then wonder what's going to happen. What was it like for you as a soldier?
- [07:14]
Irving Locker
Unbelievable. First of all, we were on those big boats before we transferred on to the, for the Higgins boat. We Were half seasick on those big boats rocking there, just standing still. So.
- [07:27]
Tudor Dixon
Yeah, because the sea was so unsteady.
- [07:29]
Irving Locker
So unsteady. But that's when we hit that beach. All of a sudden, everybody on the beach kept hollering, get off the beach. Because on the beach, you're a victim. Off the beach, you're a warrior. Get off the beach. So that was a big thing that everybody kept hollering because you couldn't stop to help anybody who was sick, hurt, wounded. You couldn't stop that. The men on the Higgins boat. When we got off the Higgins boat, it was their job to go onto the field. And anybody who was hurt or wounded, they took them back on the Higgins boat to bring them back to the big boats for the doctors. But we were.
- [08:08]
Tudor Dixon
Because the big boats had almost like field hospitals set up inside of them, correct?
- [08:13]
Irving Locker
Not that took us in. No, no, they were not. They were just transporting us, that's all.
- [08:18]
Tudor Dixon
Okay.
- [08:19]
Irving Locker
Nothing big, but they took them back at least to the bigger boats where they had doctors, et cetera. That. That's how well we went in. Basically. That's. That's the story, you know, on the. On the. On the beach, you're. You're a victim, you know, off the beach, you're a warrior. Get off the beach. All right, anyway, so let's.
- [08:40]
Tudor Dixon
But you get off the boat. I mean, I'm. I'm looking. I was looking through the pictures again, and I mean, you're. You're running through the water. You're. You already seem disadvantaged. You have all this gear now. You're wet, you are tired, you've been sick on this boat, you're running right into a. What is that? Is it just the adrenaline that takes over? What was that like?
- [09:02]
Irving Locker
I think it's the adrenaline because you had no alternative, really. True. If you talk about five foot of water, I'm five feet tall. And we're loaded down with everything else. I was soaked, and a lot of people couldn't think I was going to.
- [09:18]
Tudor Dixon
It was June. Was it warm?
- [09:19]
Irving Locker
Yeah, it was warm. It was warm. But basically, that's what it was. I was five feet tall and jumping in. But you have to understand, jumping in. This was a shovel that we had attached to us with all of the equipment, with everything else. It was very difficult. Very difficult. But hold on to that thought, that on the beach, you're a victim. Off the beach, you're a warrior. And that's what kept us going. And I was a staff sergeant, encouraging my men and working my men and Doing everything that I could to encourage them.
- [09:55]
Tudor Dixon
Because you were 18, right?
- [09:57]
Irving Locker
Yes, 18.
- [10:00]
Tudor Dixon
And you are leading the men. I mean, I think about the 18 year olds that we have today, I don't know. I don't know that they could do that.
- [10:08]
Irving Locker
Well, you have to understand, I'm the baby of seven children. My mother, who was an angel at the time, while she left, kept encouraging us, take care of your brothers, take care of your sisters. I was brought up taking care of everybody that I could, and it fit right in. And that's one of the reasons that I think I was promoted to that point, because I came in as a private and was promoted to a sergeant and a staff sergeant. It was unbelievable.
- [10:38]
Tudor Dixon
So this is June 6th of 44. You graduated high school in 43. You're drafted immediately. How long, how, how many months are you in training before you're actually over there?
- [10:49]
Irving Locker
Well, not that long. Not that long because basically the training, you have to understand, we were trained on a gun. When, when we went into Fort Dix, which was in New Jersey, we had no equipment at all. And basically you just took orders. You were trained to take orders. You know, if they told you what to do, you did it. Then there was no question about it. And even with the, with the big guns that we had, you couldn't. Most of my men were deaf in both ears because of it. You couldn't put cotton in your ears because then if you did, you couldn't follow orders or you had something to blame it on. I didn't hear the orders. So basically you were just subjected to all of that stuff. And it was just one very difficult thing. And I learned to thank God, and I mean that sincerely in the war. I learned to thank God. And I thank God every single day because, and I use one expression that's very, very popular with me, but for the grace of God go I. People getting killed alongside of me, people stepping on a mine, blowing their legs off and arms off. And so I'm alive and well and I thank God every single day. And it comes from the heart, not the lips with that. But anyway, all of these different things. If you would see what we carried in and what the. The equipment that we had, plus the fact that then they brought. Once we got settled and once I got the fields cleared, in other words, my job was to handle the guns when they come in, north, south, east and west on a particular field, plus the radar and a lot of big things. There's so much to talk about that people can't even understand. People Think you shoot at a plane, but you saw the size of the shell. You shoot at a plane like you're shooting a gun. You know, it's not true at all. Basically.
- [12:40]
Tudor Dixon
Show the shell again so people can see.
- [12:43]
Irving Locker
Yeah.
- [12:46]
Tudor Dixon
You have that back there?
- [12:47]
Irving Locker
Yes. You see the black part? This part here, the brass part stays on the ground. This is the bullet that goes into the air. But then we have a unit on there that sets the height in that. Okay. It's called a fuse setter. It sets the height of the bullet point. When it gets to the height of 20,000, 18,000, 25,000ft, whatever the radar designated that explodes. So you got 1,000 pieces of metal at that area that the planes are flying into or hitting the planes. And that's why we had the highest number of planes, German planes shot down, and the entire first army with that, because that's basically. And I could go through a tank like a piece of glass with armor piercing shell of that size. So that's the extent. But one of the big things that we have to talk about, the people know, or should know. The Germans had what they call 88s, their guns. Same type of gun we had. We copied that gun, improved it, and called it 90 millimeter. But they knew because of their guns, they knew the fields that we needed, because they needed them as well. So where they knew all the fields, they would set up these big signs. Achtung, meinen. When they took these people into the holocaust, they needed labor. Basically, they needed labor. You got to dig holes and put mines into the ground. You realize you put a hundred mines digging a hole for a hundred mines and different things. So they needed labor to do that. And that's basically what the Holocaust was all about, labor.
- [14:36]
Tudor Dixon
So they were taking these people and forcing them to work.
- [14:39]
Irving Locker
That's basically what it was at the time.
- [14:42]
Tudor Dixon
Take me back to D day for a second. Your goal is to get off the beach, but then what? Where do you go? I mean, I think we are all so familiar with the photos and the images of the beaches being stormed. What happens next? You get off, you're.
- [14:59]
Irving Locker
You go. First of all, first of all, we need. They needed us to protect that beach from people coming in with the planes. You know, when the type of planes, either they can bomb you or they have. They strafe you. You know what that means when they strafe, where the planes can come right down into the ground with machine guns to strafe you. So we had to protect that beach mainly to get started. We stayed on that beach to protect it.
- [15:27]
Tudor Dixon
Were there. Was there equipment on the beach? I mean, how did you get the. The guns there? There in jeeps or what, are what?
- [15:34]
Irving Locker
No, no, they came in after we did. Same way that we did right off the boat. We cleared it, but then it was in. Then the bigger boats came in and they transferred them in to take us into the. Sure. At that time we had. Don't forget, we had a battalion at 16 of these guns. I was in a battery, four of these guns. So in other words, A, B, C and D batteries to that point. So in other words, for B battery, I was in charge of the four gun. So I had to bring them in and then set up north, south, east and west in a particular field to protect the beaches.
- [16:14]
Tudor Dixon
And you're watching the skies.
- [16:15]
Irving Locker
Watching the skies. No, the radar is watching the skies. The men. We did not watch the skies to that point. We couldn't see the planes at all if they were up that high. But the radar could designate the plane. Now you're talking about before computers, right?
- [16:34]
Tudor Dixon
How are you getting all this information.
- [16:37]
Irving Locker
From the radar? Through the cables on the radar. And the radar would send that to the guns. We had, like I said, 14 men on the gun, five men to control dials, in other words, the direction, the height, separate dials on the gun that the radar sent in, nine men to control ammunition with the men. But basically that's what it was, that the radar could set that up and. And tell us the height, the direction, et cetera, all the technical end that we needed. They would send us through a dial on the guns. The guns had the dials. So I had five men controlling dials and firing the gun and using the different things, 14 men on a gun. Okay. So that's how it was directed in to that point. But I could fire 10 or 12 shells a minute off that gun because as fast as we were loaded in and fire that gun, another one was put in to the shell and they would fire the guns the same way. So that's why we did such a good job and that's why we were alive. I have to say that truly and honestly, that's why we're alive today, because of the job that not only we did, but everybody in the army. Everybody had a. And you.
- [18:02]
Tudor Dixon
Did you lose men on the beach that day?
- [18:04]
Irving Locker
Oh, yeah, we lost men on the beach. Not that many in my outfit. Not that many in my outfit. We lost a lot of men. There are articles up and down the line is the amount of men that they lost, the amount of men that were wounded, the amount of men that were just laying there to that point. I didn't lose that many men as far as I was concerned because of the way we entered. And don't forget, they were in there a lot before we were. There were a lot of men, a lot of men in there on that beach before we got there to the point of bringing the big guns in to do that.
- [18:39]
Tudor Dixon
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon Podcast.
- [18:45]
Unrivaled Basketball Announcer
Season two of Unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't it make miss as Paige Becker, Snafeeza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more. Take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.
- [19:14]
Public Investing Sponsor
Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com Disclosures A new year.
- [20:25]
Washington Post Sponsor
Is on the horizon and your 2026 savings start here. Right now you can access the Washington post for just $2 every four weeks. Head into the new year with six months of savings at the special intro rate. After that it'll cost $12 every four weeks. Cancel anytime you'll get unlimited access to trusted journalism that helps you understand the year ahead and the world around you. Now's the perfect time to subscribe because great habits and great savings start together. Go to washingtonpost.com iheart that's washingtonpost.com iheart and start your year informed with the Post.
- [21:00]
US Ski and Snowboard Insider Announcer
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- [21:30]
Irving Locker
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- [22:02]
Tudor Dixon
So what's next? So you, you're sleeping. I mean, from our perspective, we can't even understand this. You just storm the beach and you are ready to fight. You are fighting for the at that point, how much do you know about what is going on with the Germans? Do you know? Do you understand the concentration camps? Do you know what's happening?
- [22:22]
Irving Locker
No, no, no. Concentration camp, as far as I'm concerned, did not come into effect until almost after the war, until the Elbe River. Then at the Elbe river then we located the called Gardner Laken camp. And that's when I went in. And I went in only because I was Jewish and could understand a little bit, because you people have to know. When I went to the German people and I said, where were your eyes? Look what they did to these people. And the only opening and the only answer I got which made sense is if I opened my mouth, I'd have been in the camp. That's how strict it was and that's how tough it was.
- [23:02]
Tudor Dixon
I think that's a question we ask so many times, like how did nobody stand up? And you forget that there wasn't the freedom to stand up. What could you do?
- [23:10]
Irving Locker
No. And basically people have to understand that your life didn't mean a thing to these people in charge. Hitler was no good, but the men he put in charge of these camps became God in their own setup, in their own head. You do what I tell you or else. And they did the one else without any question about it. So when I talked to the German people about it, because I couldn't understand how anybody could watch or see these things happening and not do anything about it.
- [23:40]
Tudor Dixon
When you saw the camp for the first time, what was that like? I mean, I think that we look back and believe that Americans knew it was happening, But I can't imagine what. What it was like for you to walk in there and actually see it.
- [23:56]
Irving Locker
The only honest answer I can give you is, I threw up. I couldn't handle it. I'm Jewish. What they did to Jewish people, what they did to the men, what they did to the pregnant Jewish women who had the baby in the camp and would kill the babies, Just take the babies and kill them. You can't even imagine. I don't want to talk about to your audience because I don't want to ruin anybody's incident, but that's what they did, and that's what I saw. And that's unbelievable to.
- [24:28]
Tudor Dixon
That's what. That's what people need to know, because there's too many people out there right now saying this never happened.
- [24:36]
Irving Locker
I have pictures. I have pictures. I have a book to show you exactly what. What. What I have in it. So that'll be a little while later. But anyway, to get along with that, we had to move along. But the big guns, they would give us different positions and move from one position to get us into that, into the battles, to work it out. Because every time, see, we were. We had a full track. They called them a caterpillar, which was the same type of unit that pulled the guns. Okay. On full tracks. So what happened is when they had to move us in any which way, they would come in and pull us up and move us right out.
- [25:21]
Tudor Dixon
So, like tank tracks, you're saying?
- [25:24]
Irving Locker
Tank tracks and tank traps. And to pull the gun, the top was a cabinet. 14 men were in that cabinet when we pulled. And the gun. So when we had full unit, we would hit the beach, hit the ground, set it up. 14 men would get out, put together, because there's all kinds of. If you take a look, if people see the YouTube, it explains the size of the gun and the way it was transported. With platforms, with outriggers, with wires, a full unit that had to be moved and shoved in. So that's basically what it was.
- [26:08]
Tudor Dixon
But you're going into these. You mentioned that you have to go into these fields, you need a flat space for. So a field is the best place to go. But they've hired. They haven't hired. They've essentially stolen people and forced them to work. And in these fields, they had these landmines. So you don't know what's safe and what's not safe. And I mean, we've seen the movies, we've seen what it was like on the ground from what Hollywood's perspective is. But you were one of the ones that was going in there, and you don't know if you're going to make it through. You have to see if you can actually drive a tank in there.
- [26:45]
Irving Locker
Absolutely right. Because all they had was the big signs. What we saw was the big signs. Ach tung meine. It means attention minds. Whether you could believe them or not, nobody knew. We had no alternative. That's why I say I moved my guns in. Do I get out of that Jeep? Do I go into the field? Do they. To take care of my men? Very difficult. That's why I was praised by President Trump, not so much for the killings, but for what we did for the men, to try to protect the men and do that. That's where I stood out, and that's why he honored me and different things. But it was very difficult not knowing whether you're going to live or not live.
- [27:27]
Tudor Dixon
And you're a kid. I mean, you're a kid. What does this do to your faith when you have. I mean, I imagine it's just you and God in a lot of those.
- [27:36]
Irving Locker
Moments, you have to believe that. Because I did not believe in God to that point, but I started to believe in God because as far as I was concerned, I had no alternative who could help me, who could watch me, who could make my head go in and do these things and get out of that Jeep and go into the field and know that I may not come out. So it's difficult. Beside being shot at, beside being everything else, you had it on top of it, you know, to work it out. And this is.
- [28:09]
Tudor Dixon
This is the meaning behind the statement, freedom isn't free. And I will say that we every, every year are. Our middle school takes the 8th graders to Washington, D.C. and on the Korean War Memorial, they have that statement, freedom is not free. And my last year, my eighth grader stood in front of it and she said, why would they say that? Why would they put that on there? And I thought, it's interesting. So important for them to fully understand. And in that moment, you. That memorial is so Powerful because you see all of the equipment on the men's backs, you know, the, the statues of the men walking up the. Up the memorial. And I, I just said to her, take this all in. But I think that it's so hard to get them to see it. So tell our audience what that statement means to you. Freedom isn't free.
- [29:02]
Irving Locker
You have to understand. This is the helmet we wore. Now the liner comes out of the helmet. This is how we washed. This is how we brush our teeth. This is how we. This is what we had in a field. Can you even picture that living that way to the point of this is your helmet, and then you put your binder back in, put it on your head, hopefully protect your life. You know, what I'm bringing out. So that's what it was. And digging a hole at night, how do you sleep? You have to dig a hole and crawl into a hole and come out in the morning and get back on the gun. And no rooms, no hotels. No, you couldn't. You were out in a field in the rain.
- [29:55]
Tudor Dixon
Were you ever in. In that situation we see in movies where there's the trench on one side and the enemy is on the other side and you can hear them talking?
- [30:05]
Irving Locker
No, not to that point, no. I cannot say that honestly, because I was in a field, but my field, I needed range with that size gun. There were four guns in that field, north, south, east and west. So there was nobody close that I could honestly say that to you. That's what they're calling that, that's infantry in trenches where you could hear the Germans or the enemy maybe in the next trench over. We couldn't do that. We were in a field, so those fields had to be cleared, you know, so that's.
- [30:38]
Tudor Dixon
So the Battle of the Bulge, was that a surprise attack? What. What was happening there?
- [30:43]
Irving Locker
No, no, no, no, no, no. Not surprise attack. We were set up for that. That was a. Basically, we didn't know. Don't forget, you have officers setting all the rules and setting your locations and everything else. They tell you where to go, what to do, etc. To that point. But with the Battle of the Bulge, the biggest thing was the weather was so bad. It was the worst winter. Snowy, cold and snowy. And can you imagine digging holes into the snow and the ice to crawling in? And like I said, I sent my supply sergeant. I would send them to our own dead men to take their boots off, take their coats off, take whatever they could off, because that's it. We had no toilets, no sinks, no showers, you lived in a field. And I.
- [31:34]
Tudor Dixon
And, and how did they get supplies? How often did you get.
- [31:38]
Irving Locker
Everything had to be brought to us. They had the red, orange. The red ball express. The trucks would go to the ports, go to the. And supply. Supply. Supply department and bring everything to us. Now we had a truck with us with, with. With ovens so that they could feed us. But when we didn't bring that in, I would go to the farms. And that's how I talk about my Luger. I would go to the farms to get whatever I could steal. I became the procurement officer.
- [32:09]
Tudor Dixon
Wow.
- [32:10]
Irving Locker
Whatever I could steal, whatever I could take away. And that's how I found living in New Jersey. I didn't know what a house was, you know, as far as I. And I went into one of the barns and when I walked out of the barn, there was a little door and a little house. And I said, what is that? And I opened the door and there was a board with a hole in it. Now, honest to God, I didn't know what I was talking about, but I said to the German, what do you. And he showed me what. I took it away from him, basically brought it back on an eight foot piece of wood. I put the holes there, measured it out, made a 5 holder so my men could sit down. People have no idea. My men could sit down and as a toilet to do that, and even to the point of a shower. I saw a German watering his field with certain equipment. I took that away from her or I borrowed it, whatever they want to call it. And I took every shower head I could find from his house or anybody else's house. First time my men had a shower in three months. Can you imagine? The colonel came in, the captain came in. Everybody in the outfit came in to get a shower and complimented me because that's what I did. And the Jewish language helped me do all of these things to find out.
- [33:30]
Tudor Dixon
And the human spirit of that. I mean, here you've been out there for all of these months and yet you still want to provide that. Because you know that. That moment of decency, that moment of feeling normal, so important.
- [33:48]
Irving Locker
Well, and that's why I talked about my mother, who was an angel, raised me that way because she would say, take care of your brothers and sisters. Watch out for them, make sure. So I learned to live with men. You have people that come in that were alone or single in the house, come in and all of a sudden they put into a barrack with 50 guys. This one's smoking, this one, drinking this One's playing crap, this one's shooting this. And I was used to that because living with people, it's a different world, different life, living together that way. But I was brought up to the point of taking care of my men from the advice, from being brought up that way. And it worked out in that. And we had a theory in my outfit, because, you know, I can talk about Sargent some of the sergeant, you do what I tend to, or else, you know. But I didn't do that. I said, if we work together as a team, if we work together, we got a chance of coming out alive. And that's a theory that I held all the time with my men, to the point that even their children, now most of the men are dead, but their children call me because I have different things. We took pictures. I have a flag that I took off a wall in Berlin, a Nazi flag. It's an authentic flag. And I had a lot of my men sign it. Their children come to see that. And just with their wives and children to show them their father's name and stuff, to do those things. And that's what I get the pleasure out of trying to help and trying to work it out. So that's.
- [35:27]
Tudor Dixon
And you did. And you went through. So the Battle of the Bulge was. I believe they say that was the bloodiest battle of World War II.
- [35:34]
Irving Locker
That was the bloodiest battle. But the weather was so bad and that was the bloodiest battle because they were prepared for it, they were waiting for us. There's a different things, you know, when you catching them by surprise is one thing, but this Battle of the Bulge, it was. The weather was so bad and everything else. So that's that part and other.
- [35:54]
Tudor Dixon
What did you. When you said you were set up, what did you mean by that?
- [35:58]
Irving Locker
Set up with the guns? Set up? No, set up to the point of the officers picking a field, picking a section, telling us where to go.
- [36:08]
Tudor Dixon
So they were ready for this. But then.
- [36:11]
Irving Locker
But the officers didn't know what was there. They were hoping that it was clear or that you'd fight your way in to get there. But the fact remains that it's all territory. It's territory they need, this section or that section, it's territory. And we were picked for that because of maybe the bridges. We had to protect the men coming across bridges. We had to protect men coming out of the water. We had all the different things that took place that they knew and we didn't, but they.
- [36:40]
Tudor Dixon
What are you hearing on the ground at this point? You're Fighting them back, battle after battle and make gaining ground. Do you know that? Are you. Are they saying the war is almost over?
- [36:51]
Irving Locker
No, no, no, no. Unfortunately, no, because they were afraid of telling that to the men too, because then they would back off. They didn't want us to back off one second to do that. So it was a matter of pushing and saving your life. Basically, we all tried to save our life as well as doing our job, but every man had a job to do and he was responsible. And that's why I talked about before. They wouldn't let us put cotton in the ears because then you couldn't follow orders if you had an excuse, you didn't follow an order. Different story. The same way with a story. When we got too near where the Germans were, the barns, the farms, we had orders you could not go near those farms or touch an animal off those farms because if you did, you could go to jail. They had to threaten us with something. I went to sleep that night, and we had a guard patrolling, you know, the area every night we had guards patrolling while we slept. He woke me up in the morning. Sergeant, he says, I killed a cow. I said, oh, my God, you could go to prison. What's the matter with you? I said, what happened? He said, it was dark outside with black. He says, I heard a noise. He says, stop or I'll shoot. It didn't stop, so I shot. When I got to where I shot, there was a cow, unfortunately, the same way. Believe me when I tell you I didn't turn them in at all. We ate like kings for a month after all. We ate like kings for a month. I wouldn't turn them in. But basically, that's following orders. That's following orders. You can't kill a cow. You can't touch your animals. You can't do this. You can't do that.
- [38:39]
Tudor Dixon
I think that's important to know, though, because we. When we haven't gone there, when we haven't been in a situation like that, I think we too often assume that there are no rules when you're out there. But there are many rules. It was. Yeah, they have to have quite monitored.
- [38:56]
Irving Locker
You have to control men. Don't forget, you got a lot of sick men out there that are aggravated and worried and everything else living that way. So you got to control them. So you got to do what you have to do to do that.
- [39:11]
Tudor Dixon
How do you do that? What are the emotions? I mean, doesn't anybody just lose it.
- [39:15]
Irving Locker
As far as I'm concerned? I talked about it Before I told jokes, I tried to get with my men. I tried to be friendly with them. And it wasn't a matter of, I'm the sergeant, do what I said. It was a matter of getting along with them. Getting along with them. Treating them like people. Not anything else, but treating them like people. And I must tell you, I became the procurement officer. So I would get liquor, I'd get everything else that I steal and give it to my men just to make sure that we were there. But we were together and doing what we can for each other. That's a big thing, even to the point that I must tell you, this is a trench knife, the same way with brass knuckles. Now, when they're firing, when they're strafing you and everything, you jump into a hole. If a German's in that hole, one of you not coming out, and they got to jump in to protect their life, just like you're jumping in to protect yours. So it's not just a matter of shooting and killing. It's living. It's living. And everything had to be brought to us. Food, water, medicine, ammunition, everything. Because we were out in the big fields, we couldn't be near a city, we couldn't be near a building to do that. So that's. That's. But that's life. All of these daggers, all of these things with still. With the swastikas still on them.
- [40:50]
Tudor Dixon
And you're. I mean, at that point, if you're. If you have those, you're taking that for off of someone's body. I mean, you are, hand to hand.
- [40:58]
Irving Locker
Absolutely taking it off somebody's body. But it was a matter of kill or get killed. There's no question about that. There's no question about. You jump into a hole. If a German's in that hole, one of you not coming out.
- [41:13]
Tudor Dixon
Do these replay in your mind?
- [41:17]
Irving Locker
Yeah, absolutely. It replays in love. I have to be honest with you. Believe me, a lot of nights I don't sleep. When I talk about the war, I'm okay because I lecture. When I talk about the Holocaust, I don't sleep at night with that because of man's inhumanity to man, of what they did to people, human beings. And but for the grace of God go I being Jewish, who knows, you know, what I'm bringing out. Well, my family.
- [41:48]
Tudor Dixon
So you.
- [41:49]
Irving Locker
You never know. You never know who, what, when, or how to do that.
- [41:53]
Tudor Dixon
You struggle with. I think that's profound. You struggle with the carnage of war, but you can't stomach what you saw in Those camps you can't stomach. I think the carnage of war is also a battle of soldiers. And it's a different feeling when you meet a soldier, I imagine than when you see a pregnant woman who has been imprisoned.
- [42:20]
Irving Locker
Yeah. And knowing what they're going to do to the babies. Even to the point of people have no idea. You know, when they came in to kill the Jewish men, I don't want to talk that much, but when they kill the Jewish men, nobody would raise their hand. Nobody would do it. Would you believe they had the men stripped down and take off their pants, take off their underwear, see who was circumcised? I mean, that's the extent I'm talking about where you're not human anymore with that you're not human.
- [42:55]
Tudor Dixon
That's that. Those were the videos that we watched when I was in high school. We watched the videos. I mean, and to think that they recorded that at the camps. They recorded people walking through the camps and the abuses and. And you talk about the monsters that were in the camps and I, And I've read books as well from people who were in the. Who surv the camps, who say exactly what you said. These people became like gods in their own. They felt like they controlled the world in this one camp. But they were hideous there. They were hideous, nasty people.
- [43:31]
Irving Locker
Absolutely.
- [43:33]
Tudor Dixon
But when you, when you found. So you went to the camps after they were liberated or how.
- [43:39]
Irving Locker
Tell me about that wells we helped. There were men who liberated that camp and I was. When I got to Gardelegen, which is near the Elbe River, I was a staff sergeant so I could do pretty much what I wanted with that, to go out into a different field. So I went to that camp and I've got pictures with my own camera to that point. I've got pictures here in this book with my own camera of different things that I show people because they don't believe it.
- [44:13]
Tudor Dixon
Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon Podcast.
- [44:19]
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- [44:34]
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- [47:22]
Tudor Dixon
You're a young man and you are too. Were you at that point chosen because you could speak? You could speak it because your family was.
- [47:31]
Irving Locker
No, no, no. I was chosen because of the way I was brought up with my. With the men, the way I took care of my men. I was promoted, basically. I was a pretty good soldier to that point. In learning the guns and being a staff sergeant, it was a bit of a matter of controlling the four guns. And even if a man on one of the four guns was ill or was wounded, I could pitch in, right, jump in and do that job.
- [47:57]
Tudor Dixon
But you were able to communicate with people at the camps differently than others, right?
- [48:02]
Irving Locker
At which camp? At this. At the Garden Laden camp, you mean?
- [48:06]
Tudor Dixon
Yes.
- [48:07]
Irving Locker
Huh. Well, yeah, because I was Jewish, right. Again, the language. But can you even imagine walking in and seeing this type of stuff, being Jewish and looking at it and saying, man's inhumanity to man? I mean, where is it? What are we doing? A war is a war, but you're still human.
- [48:33]
Tudor Dixon
When they knew they were. So when you were getting there, I imagine that it took time to get to all these camps because obviously the communication wasn't the way it was. It is today. So you had to go from camp to camp to liberate them when they.
- [48:49]
Irving Locker
I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I'm sorry. No, no. I went to Gardelegen only because we was near the Elbe River. It was close to where I was.
- [48:58]
Tudor Dixon
But I mean, the army in general had to.
- [49:00]
Irving Locker
That's a different story. And again, it's a job. It's a job they do that. They would call into the headquarters and headquarters say, okay, go around in. See what you can do. But I didn't have that.
- [49:13]
Tudor Dixon
What, what, what were the. Did you ever hear from people that did, though? I mean, what were their reactions? Your reaction?
- [49:19]
Irving Locker
No, I never heard from other people. You know, the war is something you're not associated right next door that she can talk to, to different people with it. You know, we didn't know from one, one outfit to another outfit of what it was or what we could do with it. So that's, that's the difference.
- [49:37]
Tudor Dixon
So what would you, what do you want people to take away from this? What would, what lessons do you want young people to learn from you?
- [49:45]
Irving Locker
Freedom is not free. You got to appreciate it. You gotta. And I talk to the kids about seeing, honoring. They see a veteran, thank them. Say thanks to a veteran. What does it. What does it take? What does it cost you to do that? To show these veterans that people appreciate what we did? And we don't get that. We don't get that at all with it, you know, so it's a difficult. It's a difficult situation. But I'm very happy as far as I'm concerned, because I lecture, I'm with people, I talk about this stuff. So I'm doing what I think God wants me to do, because people have to know that freedom is not free. And that's what I do.
- [50:32]
Tudor Dixon
Let me talk to you a little bit about today, though, when you. I will say I. A few years back, I interviewed a Holocaust survivor, and as I walked out of the room, the wife, who both had been Holocaust survivors, and the wife grabbed my arm and she said, they hate the Jews and they'll do it again. And I naively felt like that was. We had. We had grown past this. And then October 7th happens, and it's a horrific. A horrific attack. And yet again, we have people saying, no, it didn't happen. What's your reaction to that?
- [51:10]
Irving Locker
Well, just like as I said before, I show them pictures and say, it happened. I lived through it. It happened. Thank God I wasn't in the camp, you know, to the point of being a victim. But I show these pictures and I talk about the fact of man's inhumanity to man. What do they gain other than killing the Jews? What do they gain? And even to the point now that in this day and age where we got problems up and down the line here with that, who knows? Who knows what the next step will bring? So we talked.
- [51:47]
Tudor Dixon
But you spoke with some of the people, the prisoners that were in the camp when you. When you went to.
- [51:55]
Irving Locker
You know, today there's a Holocaust day once a year. And I go to the different churches where they bring victims back in, people who were relatives or people who were actually victims, they bring them in. So there is a Holocaust day that I've been to where I am. So I go in and talk about that, to lecture with them.
- [52:18]
Tudor Dixon
What were some of the things that they said to you when you went to the. When they knew that they were free. But the horrific events, how did they say they survived?
- [52:31]
Irving Locker
I can't answer that question. Only God can do. Only God can answer that. Who knows what. Whatever the situation was, that it was ended or somebody pulled them out or they got out or they escaped. You know, they were prisoners, they escaped. They crawled on that and they got out. And they were lucky. They were lucky. And a lot of them who were lucky would not admit that they were prisoners either, because they never know. You never know who you're talking to. You never know who's in what, who's doing what. But it was a terrible, terrible situation with Holocaust camps. The amount of people they killed, the amount of people that were wounded, the amount of people who can't be straight in their mind mentally today because of what happens. I mean, man's inhumanity to man. I can't even understand it, and neither can most of the people.
- [53:32]
Tudor Dixon
You came back from war and you got married. How old were you when you got married?
- [53:35]
Irving Locker
Oh, I married 77 years. I was 25.
- [53:41]
Tudor Dixon
25. So you were what, back for about five years or.
- [53:48]
Irving Locker
Yeah. And believe me, we're two brothers married to two sisters. I went to school with my wife's sister after the war. I introduced my older brother to her, who was older than me, and they got married or they got in touch. My mother, who was an angel, they didn't have a father at the time, so it was the two girls and their mothers. My mother would invite them to come to our home and associate with it. And that's how I met my wife. So we're two brothers married and two sisters. And I'm married 77 years, and I still tell her every day how much I love her. You got to use it. You got to. If you don't use it, you lose it. So you got to work at it.
- [54:29]
Tudor Dixon
So that's your secret to a long marriage. Appreciation.
- [54:33]
Irving Locker
Appreciation. And tell her. You got to tell her you love her. You got to talk about it. You got to show her. It's a show and tell business. Because most people, you know, today, with what's going on, they don't do that. They don't do that.
- [54:48]
Tudor Dixon
I like that. Marriage is a show and tell business.
- [54:51]
Irving Locker
It's a show and tell. And what's the big deal to say, hey, I tell people other than my wife. Did anybody tell you they love you today? If they say no, I said, oh, I'll be the first one to tell you. Okay. And if they say yes, they did. Then I say, okay, I'll be the first little Jewish boy to tell you, I love you. What's the big deal? But it's a laugh, it's a smile, and that's how I get along with people. I love to tell jokes and do different things, but it's a matter of.
- [55:18]
Tudor Dixon
Life, you know, in this very life, in this very long life, where you have experienced more life than most of us will ever see. Not only war, but love and relationship and companionship and humor. All of those things you are also. You can add to that now that you are a songwriter.
- [55:41]
Irving Locker
Yeah.
- [55:41]
Tudor Dixon
Okay, tell us about that.
- [55:44]
Irving Locker
Well, I have. Can I introduce you to. Sure. The actual people who wrote the song are here with me today. I'd like you to see them at all. But basically they took whatever stories I tell you and they put it in to. To that you heard how much information.
- [56:06]
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He'S got to share and he made.
- [56:08]
Irving Locker
Our jobs very easy. Getting to. Getting to write his song was a blast. But it's a beautiful song and, and I love it. And it's, it's. It's great. It's great. And I'm indebted to them.
- [56:21]
Tudor Dixon
It is a beautiful song. And honestly I think that that is. It's such a creative way to bring light to your story because that's how I heard about it. You know, you Hear about a 101-year-old veteran who is able to share this. The stories of his time in a new song, his time at war and new song. It's called if Freedom was Free.
- [56:43]
Irving Locker
Right, Right. If freedom was free. Or. Or free. That's. That's on the song. Yeah. And I talk about it. Freedom is not free. So just the opposite in life because you have to work at it. It's not free. It doesn't come easy. You have to work at it. And I work at it. From my experience, it's amazing how many people I talk to and using that same expression, if you don't use it, you lose it. And being nice to people, what is your things doing things for people. And that's how I was brought up from little on as being part of seven children. We learned to help each other do for one another. And that was my life bringing up. And I appreciate it and I do it. I do it because I enjoy it. Because it's so much easier to be nice to people than it is not to be.
- [57:42]
Tudor Dixon
So what is your message of faith and longevity for young people?
- [57:49]
Irving Locker
I believe in God. It doesn't matter the religion. As far as I'm concerned, there's a God above us. And you have to something to talk to somebody, to hold on to somebody, to spread the word. And I fully believe that even when I meet new people and I meet people, it's talking about this fact that how lucky we are to be alive and well at 101 years old. And I still work out in the Gym. And I still do everything that I can, and I still dance with my wife of 77 years. So you got to be grateful. And you gotta. You gotta promote it. You gotta talk about it. I do anyway. And if I can get a lot of people to talk about the fact of living life and enjoying life, it.
- [58:40]
Tudor Dixon
Sounds like the secret to staying young is optimism.
- [58:44]
Irving Locker
I would say, yeah, I would use that. It's optimism because you don't know, really, truly, you don't know what the next second will bring. You don't know what the next minute will bring. And that's how we lived in the war. We didn't know what the next minute would bring or the next bullet would bring or the next illness would bring. And I still, even till today, where I live now in Florida, there are people who go to the hospitals to visit veterans, and I do that with them. I go there, I visit with them. There's a woman called Marie Bogdanov, the same way she does that. So I go over there just to spread the word, make them laugh, kibbutz with them, tell them how much we appreciate their life and what they did for us. And I think most people have to do that because they forget about what we did or what the men and women, men and women in the armed forces, what they did for them to keep us free and keep us alive.
- [59:50]
Tudor Dixon
That's why your story is so powerful, because so few people, young people nowadays, are hearing the on the ground, harsh stories, the harsh weather, the sleeping outside, having wet clothes, no shower, people sick, having to deal with, trying to treat people with illness and treat people with injury and keep going and keep going. And that was all for us. That was all for us so that we could live the life that we have today.
- [60:19]
Irving Locker
You got it. You got it covered. You covered that. You covered the whole thing right now. You did a good job covering that situation, but not because it'd be true. You have to do it and you have to work at it. And if you don't work at it, you lose it, because so many people just don't talk about it. And most of the veterans don't talk about it because it brings back too many bad memories. You have to.
- [60:43]
Tudor Dixon
I appreciate that you have been willing to talk about it and the detail that you've gone into and just the inspiration that you are. It has been so lovely talking to you and hearing your story and your willingness to share and your enthusiasm through all of this has been amazing. Irving Locker, you are an amazing man. Thank you so much.
- [61:06]
Irving Locker
Thank you. From the bottom of my heart, really, truly, because this has been a wonderful experience for me.
- [61:12]
Tudor Dixon
Well, I, I can't tell you how thankful I am. And I, I know all of our listeners are thankful as well. They're all listening and, and they know that you are the real deal.
- [61:23]
Irving Locker
Well, I'm the real deal because it comes from the heart, not the lips. Because we talk about it and I talk about it in a good sense of humor, good sense of way. And people have to know and understand and thank a veteran for what they have done so that we could be free. That's right, me included. I'm free today. And I thank a veteran the same way because things are still going on after the war. It doesn't have to be a war. Veterans are still doing a good job and you got to be grateful. So I thank God and I thank veterans and I thank you.
- [62:01]
Tudor Dixon
We thank you. And it's a powerful message. So, so powerful. I thank you so much for being on and I thank everybody out there for listening. As you all know, if you want to hear this, you can go to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Share it on Rumble. Share it on YouTube. People can watch it. If you do wanna watch it, Irving held up a lot of his memorabilia, so you can see it actually on rumble or YouTube, uterdixon. So make sure you tune in there too because you'll see some pretty interesting memorabilia from many, many years ago during World War II. Thank you so much and thank you for joining us everyone. Have a blessed day, right?
- [62:39]
Irving Locker
And thank you from the bottom of my heart, really, truly.
- [62:47]
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- [63:02]
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- [64:12]
Washington Post Sponsor
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- [64:42]
US Ski and Snowboard Insider Announcer
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- [65:12]
Valpak Sponsor
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- [65:43]
Tudor Dixon
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.