← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Beyond the Battlefield: Fixing Veteran Care with Secretary Doug Collins
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Molly Roberts
Molly I'm Molly Roberts.
- [00:03]
Drew Goins
And I'm Drew Goins. Each Friday on Impromptu, we talk through the questions we can't stop thinking about.
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Molly Roberts
Do we need to rethink how much we drink?
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Drew Goins
Why are companies really asking workers to come back to the office?
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Molly Roberts
Does boycotting a business actually work?
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Drew Goins
Should we quit social media?
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Tudor Dixon
We're here when the news gets personal.
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Molly Roberts
And the headlines hit home.
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Drew Goins
Join Molly and me every Friday on Impromptu from Washington Post Opinions.
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Molly Roberts
Find Impromptu wherever you get your podcasts.
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Drew Goins
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Doug Collins
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Molly Roberts
For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us@thrivent.com hey Clay, if there.
- [01:31]
Clay Travis
Was a summer camp for critical thinking, we'd be the chief counselors.
- [01:35]
Drew Goins
Those jelly heads in June would be intellectual warriors by August.
- [01:39]
Clay Travis
Be a lot of fun too. Some Bill and Ted's excellent adventure references.
- [01:43]
Drew Goins
Thrown in this podcast like a daily dose of that. Minus the campfires, archery and pranking the girls.
- [01:49]
Clay Travis
The bonafide boot camp for critical thinking. You can get in on it for free at the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Just search our names, play and balk. Listen and subscribe.
- [02:02]
Jeremy Scott
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.
- [02:09]
Gilbert King
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
- [02:14]
Jeremy Scott
I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.
- [02:19]
Gilbert King
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [02:21]
Jeremy Scott
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:32]
Tudor Dixon
Welcome to the Tudor Dixon podcast. I am so excited because we have the United States Secretary of Veteran Affairs, Doug Collins with us. Thank you so much, Mr. Secretary, for joining me today.
- [02:43]
Doug Collins
Dude, it was good to see you today.
- [02:45]
Tudor Dixon
I want, I want to start off with what you did. I think it was last week with Caitlin Collins, because she was going after you. I can't even remember what she was going after you about because you were so good at handling this leftist nasty media that will not talk about our veterans.
- [03:03]
Doug Collins
No, they didn't want to. And look, we had discussed it. It came up in that the signal issue. Is that the messages.
- [03:10]
Tudor Dixon
That's right, yeah.
- [03:10]
Doug Collins
And so, and look, I'll tell my story here. That is a sense that we had agreed to come on and talk about veterans. And I don't mind tough questions, hard questions. I mean, I've been doing this for 20 years in politics. I get it, and that's fine. But what we want to do is talk about the veterans. And so she came on actually before the interview and, and was, you know, small shot, like, you know, you've done on interviews before. And she said, well, we're ask you about the signal stuff. I said, and I told her, I said, caitlin, that's fine. I said, but I'll answer it once. And I don't want to dwell here. I said, we got issues with veterans. I want to talk about that. And she made it clear, oh, no problem. I got plenty of questions for about the VA and veterans. I said, okay. So we got off. So we get on the interview. Her first question was about the signal messaging issue. I answered it. She came back with another question about the exact. Basically same thing. And I said, I said, caitlin, I said, I've already answered that question. I'm not going to have anything else to expand on. I wasn't a part of it, not going to do it. And then she went the third time and this is baseball season, and that was over. If she wasn't going to talk about it, talk about veterans, then I wanted to talk about veterans. On why CNN has disrespected veterans and defamed veterans and lost a court case on defamation for $5 million to a veteran in Florida. And the person who made one of the comments, one of their producers said, we're going to nail him. They're still employed at cnn.
- [04:36]
Tudor Dixon
I thought that was genius. I mean, I have never seen it done so well and so deserved that she would be asked that question because. And I didn't even know that you had had the conversation ahead of time. I Think that's the beauty of being able to talk on a podcast, is to say, look, the background is that we said we'll answer it, but we want to talk about veterans. And there's a lot of people right now who feel like the leftist media is coming after you, saying, you're getting rid of people, you're firing veterans. This is not good for them. And I've heard you talk about this a few times about how, look, to be able to take care of veterans, we need that money spent the right way. So I wanted you to be able to answer to that, too, because I think it's great that you were able to go after Kaitlan Collins and point out the fact that she was being, well, she was being disrespectful to our veterans. But also, she never. She never cared to find out what is actually going on.
- [05:31]
Doug Collins
Well, I think that's the big problem here, too. And it's not. Look, I hate it. I don't like to have interviews that just go like that. But also, I'm not going to let anybody. I'm not going to let anybody talk bad about my veterans, not going to talk bad about the VA employees. But also, at the same point in time, you know, when you have a narrative, you know, we're not going to just play along with your narrative. I think we. I think many times, many of our side has sort of just played the narrative and tried to defend. I just am not going to play the narrative that they want to have, especially when that narrative is, you know, directly opposed to what I'm trying to do as VA secretary. And look, I've been here about two months now. We're going on two months, in fact, pretty much today, close to today. Tomorrow is two months. And, you know, all I'm doing is fighting innuendo and rumor, and it's out there that, you know, depending on who you want to listen to, which senator wants to tell stories today, you know, we've done everything from, you know, shut down the VA system and privatized it to, you know, firing 80,000 people to, you know, going back and forth and you name it, you know, we've done it. The truth of the matter is, is that at this point in time, due to some court case and everything else, basically our staffing levels are the same, except for those who chose early retirement. And. But the bigger problem here, Tudor, is what people have got to understand. The VA is bigger than the active duty Army. Let's just start off here. We're bigger than the active duty Army.
- [06:48]
Tudor Dixon
Okay, what do you mean, like, employee wise?
- [06:51]
Doug Collins
Employee wise.
- [06:52]
Tudor Dixon
That's crazy. Yeah.
- [06:53]
Doug Collins
I have right now, Pete could. Pete could mobilize the entire active duty army force, and I could best him by about 20,000.
- [07:02]
Tudor Dixon
It's actually terrifying.
- [07:03]
Doug Collins
Well, it is because it's grown many times, and I've always said, I think, you know, the Hill is when it comes to issues, and this has been very true for a number of years. When it's the Congress and also your state legislature as well. It's very true there, too, that if it's dealing with children or dealing with veterans, nobody wants to be perceived as not giving something to them. Okay. The issue is, though, is what are you giving? And I think this is true for any issue that you have. Is it giving just to appease your own conscience, or is it giving to make sure that we're actually, from my perspective, putting VA services to veterans who've earned that health benefit or that disability or other benefit. It could be housing, it could be educational. It could be other things. Are we making that the most appropriate way? So when I tell you that we have 470,000 employees, how big we are. We also have a budget of 350,000. What is unknown to most people, though, is over the last four years, we added over 100 billion, almost 150 billion, and averaged over 80,000 employees. 50 full time, about 30 part time. 10 years ago, we were less than half of that.
- [08:12]
Tudor Dixon
Okay, have you seen an improvement in veteran services?
- [08:16]
Doug Collins
That's your problem. If that had worked, we should be the happiest department on, you know, we should be the happiest department on Earth. The problem is, it's not. For the last 10 years, GAO, the Government Accounting Office, has said that we're on the high risk list for fraud, waste and abuse, patient care, patient quality. So for 10 years, the VA has increased its budget, you know, close to 200,000, you know, dollars. $200 billion. I apologize. 200 billion. And, you know, probably somewhere close to 150 or 1,000 more employees, depending on, you know, those exact numbers, depending on when you want to look at it. But we've increased money in size. But yet the metrics in our health care system, you know, some systems, you know, some of our medical centers are better, some are not. We have, you know, our caseload has been very relatively flat across this time frame as well. Disability benefits have went up because of PACTAC and some other things. But what we're looking at here is a system that for 10 years has been said, you know, look, it's not where it needs to be. And yet all we do is put money and people toward it without saying, is it making a difference? And I can tell you from a health perspective, sort of flat on metrics, on a backlog perspective for our benefits, we've actually got worse. So under Trump, it was under 60,000. When I took over. Excuse me, when I took over, it was about 230,000 backlog on disability benefits. So with all that money and people, we actually went from under 60 to over 200,000 in backlog.
- [09:48]
Tudor Dixon
And we hear a lot about veteran suicides. And I think that that's been kind of the talking point of, I guess, the people who want to continue to grow government is. While you have this hanging over your head, has that reduced at all in this period?
- [10:04]
Doug Collins
No, it's not. And that's a. That's a really concern. You look at from 2008 to 20, 24, 22, the last three numbers, we've stayed about between 6,400 and about in the highs of almost close to 7,000 veterans death by suicide each year. And that's the ones that we calculate the way our formula process does. There's some out there who say it's actually more. But the real issue you have here, and this is something for your listeners to be aware of, is that we've also have a budget of about 588 million in prevention, what is tagged as suicide prevention, and also about 2.3 billion that is used for treatment and, you know, counseling, the things that are done to help people get out of that state. So you're looking at about $3 billion that has been pretty consistent for about the last four to five years. So if you add those numbers up, you're looking at, you know, well over $10 billion that have been spent in some form or fashion on suicide, and yet our numbers haven't moved. So I've came in and started asking different, you know, questions. Why is it not moved? Why are we not, you know, and then I found out even further. We spend a lot of our time on our crisis line, which is a lot of our resources go there. But then I started seeing that we spend less than right at 1% to community outreach and organizations that are doing stuff, less than 1%. And yet we found out that that 17 number, if we use that 17 number, 50% of those have never been touched by VA. I mean, we're going at a model. It's like we're using a model from 30, 40 years ago that we. That is we just can't get out of the car, so to speak. So my question is, and I ask all these all the time, I said, if it's not working and we're not getting good results, then quit expecting different results.
- [11:51]
Tudor Dixon
Is there an opportunity for private public partnership here? Because we do have a lot of organizations that. Where veterans are kind of like a buddy system where they keep somebody on track.
- [12:03]
Doug Collins
Yep, they very much so is. Dude, I think this is. And this is why I'm opening up. I mean, I'm open to any. You know, we have a lot of veteran service organizations out there. Many are familiar with the old, with the. What I call the mainline, you know, veterans, you know, the paralyzed veterans, dva, American Legion, vfw. I mean, most people know those, but they're sort of organizations that's been around a long time and they do some good stuff with what they try to do. But then you've got a lot of newer groups over the last 20 years. A lot of them are GWOT, my generation of veterans that are coming out, Wounded Warrior Project. And, you know, there's a lot of things, Tunnels, towers, there's a lot of other agencies out there, and I don't want to name them all or name check them because there's just a lot. But they're using their resources and have very little overhead in comparison to what they actually spend their money on. And they're seeing some good results in how we deal with post traumatic stress syndrome, tbi, traumatic brain injury, those kind of things. So, yes, I'm open to anybody that's willing to come to the table and help me lower that 17 number. And if, and I'll be very frank, if 588 million is not enough, then I'm happy to go fight for more money if I'm seeing the 17 number go down. But if that number's not going down, then we got to figure out what we're not doing, right? And if it's not with us, then I'll just want them to get help somewhere.
- [13:22]
Tudor Dixon
Well, and that's. I think that's the point that people don't get that there is not a slashing of. It's not just looking for money to get rid of. You really want to see results. And that is where that narrative is getting lost in the leftist media is that what is happening in Washington, D.C. right now is because there is money being spent and the results are not there. Whether it's education, whether it's veterans, whether it's homelessness, we continue to have either worsening numbers or stagnant numbers. And that should not be acceptable. We should not be okay with that. Let me ask you, if there were not a President Donald Trump, would you ever be able to do this?
- [14:00]
Doug Collins
No. No. And I think what we've seen in the last little bit is this. Even Trump 1 actually did a lot of great things. We had the mission act out. I was in Congress when we did that, which gives much more choice to our veterans to go into the community and get care. If the wait times or their distances to facilities are, you know, over certain mileage, that helps us out, that keeps the care local. It's still VA care. We pay for it, but yet it helps us make sure that our veterans are getting the care in a timely fashion in the way they need it. He was very, I mean, every time I talk to the president about it, one of the things he talks about is community care. And so it's something that we have the ability to do. But also his willingness to come in and reimagine government. He ran on it, he talked about it. This is the whole essence of why we're here. Gives us the ability now to put more from my military background, it puts us sore more lead on the target. We're going after helping veterans. We're going after making sure they get their benefits and the VA itself. Well, I love my VA employees, but are we staffed in the proper ways? And I think that's the issue that we're having to deal with now and funded in ways that are actually putting money toward the areas of health care and actually toward benefits as we're supposed to.
- [15:15]
Tudor Dixon
This isn't a new concept, though. It's not as though we haven't heard Democrats say this. Democrats who have run for president, Democrats who have been president, Democrat senators, people have consistently said we want to get rid of the waste and actually see results. So why is it that now you are having Democrat senators just attack you over this?
- [15:34]
Doug Collins
Well, I think it's a constituency served and many of the, my colleagues in the Democrat side and, you know, I respect, you know, their opinions, but the opinions is you've seen the same thing the same way for a long time. You're not getting a better result. I think it's because that they're more concerned with the structure of government than they are the results of government. And let that one sink in for a minute. They're more concerned about how government fits and size at times, it appears than they do. What does it mean for that government agent to exist? I Mean, you mentioned education. You know, of course, with the VA and others, you know, are they doing what they're supposed to be doing? Are we simply building up a union workforce or a labor workforce or a jobs program in many of these government agencies that are not actually effectuating the change that we need to see?
- [16:24]
Tudor Dixon
So I think that, I think people need to understand there's no celebration of getting rid of people when, you know, I keep hearing people on the left that are like, oh, they're just, they want to just get rid of all these jobs and these poor people. And, and I, and to be honest, I've heard some people on the right side of the aisle that have been like, good, go get another job. I, I, on the Now, I, I agree. We've all experienced either having to lay people off or being laid off ourselves. It's, there's no joy in that. There are other jobs out there, but there's no joy in that. What do you say to those people that say, oh, this is just about cutting people? I mean, there's really a calculated decision there with every person?
- [17:03]
Doug Collins
Well, it is. You know, the question comes is, are the jobs that we have in the manpower that we have and the money being spent, is it in profitable jobs that actually help our veterans? And it may not be. It may be in areas that they may actually have more fulfillment than others in a different career line. You know, you and I both went in business, we've actually hired people, and I've been fired as well. So I know both ends of the spectrum. But, you know, I don't take any joy in it at all because, you know, I wish that we were able to use the. I wish that we'd have built the structure to fit the veteran instead of having the structure built to fit the va. And that's a big difference in perspective. And if the structure is built to facilitate the va, then we're not able to in turn give the proper needs to the veteran. So I think that's what we're turning this model on its head a little bit. Because if you have people out there who are doing jobs or they're that are not fulfilling or they're not able to accomplish that mission, then we're not being good stewards of not only the taxpayers money, but remember, veterans pay taxes too. And so we're not spending the money in which it's supposed to be done.
- [18:15]
Tudor Dixon
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- [21:50]
Drew Goins
The best way to understand all sides of an issue is to know all sides of an issue.
- [21:56]
Clay Travis
Can't get that in the mainstream media. Which is why you've gotta listen to some Clay and Buck for another point of view.
- [22:02]
Drew Goins
Buck, why are you going third person?
- [22:03]
Clay Travis
Because, Clay, I think this ad is running in places that might not exactly align with all of our politics or even know who we are.
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Drew Goins
It's impossible. But maybe if it's true. I bet if they did listen, they'd end up agreeing with us on at least one issue, even if they secretly want admitted.
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Clay Travis
Well, the only way they're gonna find out is if they download the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever they get their pods.
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Drew Goins
We're easy to find. Unlike your wife at Costco, Clay, you speak the truth.
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Clay Travis
But we're already losing people.
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Drew Goins
I think I gained one or two just now.
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Clay Travis
In case you haven't noticed, we like to have a lot of fun as well as talk about what's going on in the world.
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Drew Goins
Come hang with us today and every day at Clay and buck. Download the iHeartRadio app, search out those names. Clay Travis, Buck Sexton, and come hang.
- [22:50]
Jeremy Scott
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.
- [22:57]
Doug Collins
I just knew him as a kid.
- [22:59]
Jeremy Scott
Long, silent voices from his past came.
- [23:03]
Gilbert King
Forward, and he was just staring at me.
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Jeremy Scott
And they had secrets of their own to share.
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Gilbert King
Gilbert King. I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.
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Jeremy Scott
I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.
- [23:19]
Gilbert King
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
- [23:24]
Jeremy Scott
I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.
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Gilbert King
If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.
- [23:33]
Jeremy Scott
I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.
- [23:40]
Gilbert King
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [23:43]
Jeremy Scott
Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy.
- [23:47]
Doug Collins
Jeremy, I want to tell you something.
- [23:49]
Jeremy Scott
Listen to new episodes of Bone bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content starting April 9th. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [24:09]
Tudor Dixon
What about some of the crazy things? I mean, we're hearing that Doge uncovered a an agreement with the VA for $380,000 a month for minor website modifications. Do you, when you find. Do you think that this is nefarious or do you think this is just incompetence?
- [24:27]
Doug Collins
I'm going to say it somewhere in the middle. I think it's just we had the money and we got to spend it. I mean, Tudor, if someone has been in government and I've been in the military for years, I mean, it was a common thing in military circles. Okay, I'll take it out of the VA for a second. I remember many times that in August and September in the reserves, we would get these frantic messages from our, you know, supervisors, stuff saying, end of year is coming. You know, get these, you know, send us the. Send us any purchasing request right now under $10,000. And I mean, we would get two computers or we get stuff that, you know, we have because they had to spend the money before the end of the year. So I'm going to be sort of kind in the middle on this. I think some of it was probably not knowing what they're doing. I think some of it was, you know, helping out, you know, contracts that got awry. But I think it's somewhere in the middle. I think it goes back to an understanding that government is being used for something government was never intended to be. And that is an unlimited trough of money. That is, there's an unlimited way to hire and shape our attitudes. But I also have to remind people, and I was going to say this a minute ago. You know, you talk about everybody talking about it now. This is not the original doge. You know, everybody talks about Doge, the original Doge is Bill Clinton and Al Gore.
- [25:45]
Tudor Dixon
Yeah. Yes.
- [25:46]
Doug Collins
They cut 14% out of the workforce, almost 200. Between 250 and 300,000 people out of government slash regulations in the 90s. The same press that thought that was the most amazing thing in the world are now some of the same press and members of Congress who believe that what we're doing is terrible. So I think we ought to get, I think, frankly, the President Trump ought to bring Bill and Al back, give an award in the Rose Garden for being the original Doge founders.
- [26:17]
Tudor Dixon
That is clever. I like that idea. I think that's very good. One thing I want to just touch on before I let you go. You brought up earlier that you have about 250,000 people that are waiting for their benefits to be approved. Or is that.
- [26:32]
Doug Collins
No, a lot of that is disability side. You know, some have been, you know, they've given information. Some of it's not been finished. I mean, there's a lot of reasons. But the problem is we're not moving them quick enough. And I think that's our problem. We are looking at doing a lot of that automation now to knock out some of the ones that we can. But you would be amazed. You know, everybody talks about. What have you learned? Well, I've learned that we're so bureaucratic that sometimes our, our bureaucracy actually gets in the way of our bureaucracy. And, you know, that's pretty amazing statement, but it's just like really how we do this. So I've told everywhere. I was up in your wonderful part of the world in Michigan just this past week, and I went to the Health Battle Creek Ann Arbor in Detroit, went to all the medical, our medical centers there. Also went to the Custer Cemetery there, which is a great place. If you're in central southern Michigan down there, go by that cemetery. It's an amazing, humbling place to go to just to see the beauty of it up near Battle, right next to the Battle Creek VMA Bamsey up there. But what you're seeing is that there's a lot that we have that is beneficial. But I told them you're letting the system get in the way of what you're supposed to do. So I told them, I said, if you have 10 steps to get a benefit, then can you do it in five? If there's 10 steps to getting into the hospital and getting approved for your health care, can we do that in five, start helping this veteran get in? Because once they get in, they tend to be okay with the care they're getting, but it's the getting in process that's hard.
- [28:00]
Tudor Dixon
That's what I think is so beautiful about what's happening in all these agencies. And I think that should come to the state level too. I mean, that's what we see in automotive with Six Sigma and all of these different programs, is streamline the process. You know, in the state of Michigan, we get beat out by every other state for a bid for a new business because it takes us so long to return the answer to the company that's requesting. If you can cut out those processes, bureaucracy can sometimes just crush the next step. And that's what I think is so beautiful. You guys are just removing the barriers to make sure the people are getting what they need.
- [28:35]
Doug Collins
Exactly. And that's one of the things I've tried to bring to the table up here, is as I don't do long meetings. We do meetings with a point. If you send ahead notes to let me know what we're gonna be at my level, I mean, the meetings I take, I need that. I read all those in the morning, I'm up at 5:30, I'm in the gym, and then I'm in my office and I read those reports. So when we get to meetings, I don't just have a regurgitation of what's on the PowerPoint, I won't let it. I say, okay, here's the questions I have. How do we make it better? What decisions do you need? And we make decisions and we move. I've told our VA employees, I said, I need you to fail faster. I need you to get out there and start help trying to do stuff. If it doesn't work, fine. You'll never get in trouble with me on trying to help a veteran. And that idea doesn't work because you know what? The next idea will work.
- [29:19]
Tudor Dixon
I love that.
- [29:19]
Doug Collins
And the next idea, that's what we gotta be.
- [29:21]
Tudor Dixon
I love that. Thank you so much, Secretary Doug Collins. You guys are doing an amazing job and I'm so glad you got to share it with us today.
- [29:29]
Doug Collins
Be here with you too. Take care.
- [29:30]
Tudor Dixon
Thank you. And thank you all for listening to the Tudor Dixon podcast. Make sure you check out the more podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And join us next time. Have a blessed day. We've all done it. You see a headline but don't have time to read the whole story or there's so much news you're not sure what is worth your time. I'm Colby Ekowitz, co host of Post Reports the weekday afternoon podcast from the Washington Post, Post Reports brings you what's relevant and revealing breaking stories, politics, wellness, culture. Each episode goes beyond a headline for the context you need. Find Post Reports now wherever you're listening.
- [30:12]
Molly Roberts
For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more Connect with us@thrivent.com hey Clay, if there was a.
- [30:43]
Clay Travis
Summer camp for critical thinking, we'd be the chief counselors.
- [30:46]
Drew Goins
Those jelly heads in June would be intellectual warriors by August.
- [30:51]
Clay Travis
A lot of fun, too. Some Bill and Ted's excellent adventure references.
- [30:55]
Drew Goins
Thrown in this podcast like a daily dose of that. Minus the campfires, archery and pranking the girls.
- [31:01]
Clay Travis
The bonafide boot camp for critical thinking. You can get in on it for free at the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Just search our names Clay and Bach. Listen and subscribe.
- [31:14]
Jeremy Scott
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.
- [31:21]
Gilbert King
Every time I hear about my dad, it's oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
- [31:25]
Jeremy Scott
I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.
- [31:30]
Gilbert King
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
- [31:33]
Jeremy Scott
Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.