The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Breaking Big Food, MAHA Movement & America’s Health Crisis

Summary

Podcast Summary

The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Breaking Big Food, MAHA Movement & America’s Health Crisis

Date: February 16, 2026
Host: Tudor Dixon
Guests: Patrick and Ashley Sullivan (Filmmakers, “Breaking Big Food”)
Duration of core content: 02:01–39:59

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Overview of Episode Theme

This episode delves into America’s health crisis—rising rates of chronic illness, obesity, and the role of “Big Food”—through the lens of Patrick and Ashley Sullivan, creators of the documentary “Breaking Big Food.” The conversation moves from personal health struggles and cancer journeys, to systemic issues in the food industry, regulatory failures, the emergence of grassroots food markets, and practical advice on reclaiming health and community resilience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Journeys & Motivations

• Cancer as a Catalyst (03:01–05:00)
  • Both Tudor Dixon and Patrick Sullivan are cancer survivors. Patrick shares how his cancer diagnosis (“I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer at 38, maybe 39. It was the worst feeling...” – C, 03:37) eventually led him and Ashley to rethink their diet and pursue clean, organic eating.
  • Both describe the “fog” and emotional turbulence after diagnosis and a shared frustration at not knowing how they developed cancer.

2. Chronic Disease—A Growing Epidemic

• Widespread Health Issues (05:00–06:16)
  • Tudor points to statistics: “50% of teens are overweight; 38% have pre-diabetes... It used to be called adult-onset diabetes. Now we just call it type 2 because so many young people are getting it.” (A, 05:20)
  • The documentary ties these trends to ultra-processed foods and misleading health advice.

3. What’s Wrong With Our Food?

• Seed Oils & Label Confusion (06:16–07:24)

  • Ashley explains the misinformation around seed oils: “80% of the store has a seed oil in it… I had no idea how inflammatory and toxic our food really was. Nobody taught us how to read nutrition labels.” (D, 06:16)
  • Tudor further voices consumer confusion: “If something called a seed oil, which sounds healthy, is bad, how do I know what’s bad?” (A, 07:03)

• The Corruption of Nutrition Guidelines (07:24–08:41)

  • Patrick recounts the manipulation of the food pyramid due to industry lobbying: “The original food pyramid created in 1992 really had a lot of industry. Like here’s what we need to sell.” (C, 08:38)
  • Tudor asks pointedly, “You mean lobbyists were involved?” (A, 08:39) leading to an affirming, almost humorous “Ding, ding, ding.” (D, 08:41)

4. The Entrenchment of “Big” Systems

• Systemic Challenges (08:41–11:00)

  • Tudor critiques the dominance of “Big Food, Big Pharma, Big Health” and the loss of personal agency in massive systems: “You as a person are no longer seen… When do you see the individual person and how do we break this cycle?” (A, 09:23)

• Family Farms vs. Big Ag (10:20–11:29)

  • Family farms struggle: “Family farms can’t compete with big food farms… government is protecting them… the family doctor is dying off… my farmer is just selling to the other big industries.” (A, 10:30)

5. Local Revival & Grassroots Solutions

• Community Markets as a Solution (11:29–13:21)
  • Patrick describes a local “revival” in Phoenix: “People are wanting to scratch their own itch and realizing the eggs, ground beef, milk they’re getting weren’t healthy… Now communities support each other, local markets source from regenerative farms, Amazon’s not involved.” (C, 11:29)
  • Example: “Good Living Greens” started by neighbors for neighbors.

6. Affordability and Access

• The Challenge of Healthy Food Costs (15:54–17:04)

  • Tudor and the Sullivans acknowledge affordability issues: “I know my customers are wealthy… I can’t do it on a massive scale… What happens to those who can’t afford this?” (A, 15:54)
  • Patrick: “Real food is generally less expensive because you’re eating less of it… longer-term organic is going to become less expensive simply because that’s how markets work.” (C, 17:04)

• Addictive Processed Foods (17:04–18:50)

  • Link between Big Tobacco and Big Food in making processed foods more addictive: “Big Tobacco took over Big Food in the 1980s… make them eat more of it.” (C, 17:29)

7. Overwhelm & Actionable Advice

• Making Small Swaps (20:20–21:06)

  • Ashley: “The conversation of overwhelm is so real… I would recommend start slow. Any improvement is a good improvement.” (D, 20:20)
  • Tudor: “Make small swaps.” (A, 20:45)

• Awareness of Systemic Manipulation (21:06–22:39)

  • Tudor recounts her trip to Europe, noting the contrast in health: “In France, there was no one… that looks like an American.” (A, 22:03)
  • Patrick explains: “Glyphosate is banned in most other European countries… likely contributing to inflammation and chronic diseases.” (C, 22:39)

8. Government Failure & Betrayal

• FDA & Regulatory Capture (25:18–27:13)

  • Tudor: “How did we get so betrayed?… Who betrayed us?” (A, 25:18)
  • Patrick responds: “Is there any institution in the federal government that we feel like we can trust? Sadly, we as Americans have been betrayed… I think that is the right word.” (C, 25:46 & 27:13)

• Hope for Policy Change

  • Patrick expresses hope with RFK Jr. as head of HHS, mentioning new moves to ban food dyes and the food industry’s willingness to be regulated so companies are on an even playing field (C, 22:39–25:18).

9. Reversing Chronic Disease

• Food as Medicine (27:44–30:28)
  • Tudor: “Are we so used to chronic disease we don’t know we’ve gotten sick?” (A, 27:44)
  • Patrick: “Maybe we are the boiled frogs.” (C, 27:46)
  • Ashley: “Biggest message… you are in charge of your health… educate yourself… We have to take ownership.” (D, 29:55)
  • Patrick: “It starts with the food, not the pills.” (C, 30:28)

10. Building Markets & Community Support

• Practicalities of Starting a Local Market (34:43–38:59)

  • Patrick shares that their market, Firefly Organic Coffee and Market, took eight months to reach profitability: “Profit motive is sustainability… If you want some, come and get it.” (C, 34:45)
  • Communities bloom around local markets: “It’s spreading by word of mouth… if you can support with your Dollar, that is the best thing you can do.” (D, 35:41)
  • Advice for starting out: “Start looking at what farmers you can source from… The convenience of having it all in one place deserves a markup.” (C, 36:32)

• Curating and Managing Perishables

  • Discussed demand growth for raw milk and farm eggs, inventory management, and word-of-mouth expansion (D, 38:01).

11. Resources & Connection

• Getting Started Guides

  • Patrick offers to share advice via email for those interested in starting such markets (C, 38:59): “Just send me an email… I will type up the details… Patrick at jigsawhealth.com.”

• Where to Watch the Documentary

  • “Breaking Big Food” is available on Apple TV and Amazon Prime Video (C, 39:45).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Personal Change:

  • “I wish I could say that after I got the thyroidectomy… I woke up the next day and changed my life. But that’s not really the story… We really do need to start cleaning up our diet.” – Patrick Sullivan, 04:09

• On the Food System’s Corruption:

  • “The original food pyramid created in 1992 really had a lot of industry. Like here’s what we need to sell.” – Patrick, 08:38
  • “You mean lobbyists were involved?” – Tudor Dixon, 08:39
  • “Ding, ding, ding.” – Ashley, 08:41

• On Chronic Disease:

  • “Being in that category of broken with cancer is just really broken with chronic disease now for so many of us.” – Tudor, 06:04

• On Overwhelm:

  • “That’s the natural reaction… But I would recommend start slow. Any improvement is a good improvement.” – Ashley, 20:20

• On Betrayal:

  • “Sadly enough, we as Americans have been betrayed, Tudor. I think that is the right word.” – Patrick, 27:13

• On Ownership of Health:

  • “The biggest message… you are in charge of your health. You have to make better choices for yourself and educate yourself for you and your family so that then your kids know what to do.” – Ashley, 29:55

• On Building Local Movements:

  • “Being a purveyor is like essentially being a curator. That’s step one. Can you curate these items?” – Patrick, 36:32

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Personal Cancer Stories & Motivation for Change: 03:01–05:00
• Chronic Disease Statistics & Food Misinformation: 05:00–07:24
• Lobbying, Food Pyramid, and Industry Corruption: 07:24–09:44
• Big Food, Big Pharma, and Loss of Agency: 09:44–11:29
• Local Food Revival and Market Creation: 11:29–13:21
• Cost, Access, and Processed Food Addictiveness: 15:54–18:50
• Overwhelm & Incremental Change Advice: 20:20–21:06
• American vs. European Food Issues (Glyphosate): 22:39–25:18
• FDA Betrayal & Regulation Failures: 25:18–27:13
• Chronic Disease & Food as Medicine: 27:44–30:28
• How to Start a Community Market: 34:43–38:59
• Documentary Details & Contact Info: 38:59–39:51

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Tone & Language

The discussion is candid, passionate, and solutions-focused, balancing personal storytelling with calls to community action. The hosts and guests maintain a conversational, accessible tone, with moments of humor (“ding, ding, ding”), frankness about institutional failure, and optimism about local change.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode combines heartfelt personal health journeys with practical critique of America’s food system, illuminating how “Big Food” and regulatory inertia have fostered a national health crisis. While outlining the scope of the problem—escalating chronic disease, systemic misinformation, industry lobbying, barriers to healthy food—the guests champion grassroots revival, offering stories and advice from successful local market initiatives. Listeners walk away with both a sense of urgency and practical, incremental steps for reclaiming their health and building stronger food communities.

Transcript

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Learn more and see. Sign the [e-mail] welcome to the Tudor Dixon Podcast. You've all heard of Maha and we say we're Maha. But we kind of wonder how do you actually commit to Maha? I don't know. I feel that way. So today we get to get that answer from Maha inspired filmmakers Patrick and Ashley Sullivan. They have a new documentary and it's called Breaking Big Food. And today they're going to tell us, I think, not only how to break big food, but also how to break our addiction. I'm hoping how to break our addiction to big food because as I was watching their documentary, which I, I tell you, you should go watch this because it really does explain to you why you just can't eat one potato chip. You have to eat like a million potato chips. So without further ado, I want to bring Patrick and Ashley Sullivan in. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[D]

Thank you so much for having us.

[C]

Yeah, this is wonderful to be on your show, Tutor. Thank you.

[A]

Well, I actually this, your movie starts out with, like, the discussion of why you guys decided that you wanted to open your own organic coffee shop and market in Scottsdale, Arizona. And that was really because you were diagnosed with cancer at a pretty young age. I'm also a cancer survivor. And something you said really struck me as you were like, they told me how I can get rid of it, but they didn't tell me how I got it. And that was a question I had so many times, like, how did you get breast cancer at 38? And I was like, I'll never know. But now maybe we do kind of know.

[C]

I think that we have learned that our systems have been being bombarded for the last four decades and it's faster than our systems can detox. I was same age when I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. 38, maybe 39. And it was the worst feeling I think you can have. We, as a married couple, we were just stressed for months. Not because I felt bad, but this lingering, I have cancer, I have cancer.

[D]

This, like, it's so scary.

[C]

Absolutely scary. So I wish I could say that after I got the thyroidectomy, which is where they remove the cancer surgically, that I then woke up the next day and changed my life. But that's not really the story. The story is I kind of buried that whole time period because it was so stressful. And I don't even think we really started to change our diets and our approaches until a couple of years ago, really two years ago, where we just kind of had a new reckoning, a new wake up, a new wake up call, and decided, you know, we really do need to start cleaning up our food, start cleaning up our diet. And that was part of the inspiration for this movie, Breaking Big Food.

[A]

It's interesting the way you described that because When I was diagnosed, it was. It's kind of similar. You go through months of just kind of this fog of like, okay, what's next? How do I get rid of this? How do I make myself healthy again? But your whole. I don't know if you had this experience. Like, I remember going to the grocery store a few days after I was diagnosed and feeling like cancer was printed across my forehead. Like, I'm a different person now. I'm changed and I'm broken and there's something wrong, and I feel different, even though I don't physically feel different. Like, there's a lot of emotions that go along with that. And I say that because I think it's so important for people to know that this is more common now than ever before. We're seeing higher rates of cancer in younger people. That feeling doesn't have to be there. But then there's also other numbers that are terrifying. 50% of teens are overweight. 38% have pre diabetes. 38% of teens. And the way your documentary talked about it was like, we used to call this adult onset diabetes, and now we call. We just call it type 2 because so many young people are getting it. So I think that being in that category of broken with cancer is just really broken with chronic disease now for so many of us.

[D]

Yes. And the foods, I mean, the foods that, that we are getting marketed to. When you go to the grocery store, you know, 80% of the stor has a seed oil in it. And we had no idea how inflammatory and toxic our food really was. And nobody really taught us how to read nutrition labels. I used to shop for the household and I would buy hummus. I would buy, you know, protein drinks and all kinds of things that I thought were healthy. Salad dressings that I'm like, oh, well, these are healthy. I'm doing my best. I had no idea how to tell. Wait a minute. There's like all kinds of inflammatory ingredients in here and things that my body doesn't recognize and my gut certainly doesn't recognize. So it's just. It wreaks havoc on your body in so many ways because seeds are.

[A]

Are from nature. I mean, that's how I think. I'm like, why is a seed oil bad? You know, it comes. It's a seed. A seed came from nature. But these are all the things that we have to decode. And that's where I feel like I'm overwhelmed by this is if. If something called a seed oil, which sounds healthy, is bad, how do I know what's bad.

[C]

Gosh, what a great question. You know, if you think about it, seeds, they have a sort of bias towards not being eaten because their offspring, they want their seeds to make it into the ground. So those seeds are actually not good for humans like us because the plants don't really want us to eat them. And once you start like thinking a little bit more along those lines, you'll understand why just recently RFK Jr and the HHS USDA flipped the poot food. Flipped the food pyramid upside down. I almost said pooed. Fear of it. That's kind of what the old one should have been called. I think clip that put that as a, that's going viral. And they flipped it upside down to promote proteins, dairy, full fat dairy, by the way, healthy oils like olive oil, avocado, fruits and vegetables in wide variety and then put grains all the way at the bottom of the pyramid. And I think the crazy thing is the original food pyramid created in 1992 really had a lot of industry. Like here's what we need to sell.

[B]

We.

[A]

You mean lobbyists were involved?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

You think ding, ding, ding.

[A]

And that's where I think people don't understand that there are a lot of people that go to government. So you make a great point. Government puts out that food pyramid, but you have a lobbyists that come around. Big government, you've got big government, you've got big food, you've got big pharma. There's all of these big industries that have taken over. I mean, honestly, I went to a doctor just recently and my doctor's office is like, we don't, we can't get you in. We're going to send you to this other doctor's office. And they're in the same group as us. But it's so, it's so gigantic now. Big health, big pharma, big food. You're no longer a person. You as a person are no longer seen. I feel like even government, I don't feel like my representative sees me. It's whatever the politics are that they're driven by, you know, when do you see the individual person and how do we break this cycle of individuals having no voice?

[D]

Absolutely. And you know, that's why in our documentary, you know, the name is Breaking Big Food. But the subtitle is how the American Food System Went Rotten and How it's being revived. We really wanted to shine a light on the local companies, the people at a community, grassroots level that are doing it differently, doing it better and encouraging people that really to make change in your life, you have to. You have to make better choices. We can't wait on government, we can't wait on big food to make all the right changes. We have to do that at home. On a community level.

[A]

We've let this happen, though. I mean, I think somewhat through convenience and just the. The confusion of mom and dad both working. Life is so busy. All of these things felt like they were good conveniences at the time as these industries began to grow. And then I heard in your documentary someone saying, we're the greatest country in world. We shouldn't have secondhand food. And I'm like, how do we have secondhand food? I was thinking we had the best food. You know, we have the best farms. We have the best of everything. But then as I was running for office when I. When I was running for office here in Michigan, I'm hearing from family farms saying we can't compete with the big food farms. They. The. The big food farms get all of this money from government. Government is protecting them. And the family farms are dying off. But then there's nobody that's actually just like the family doctor is dying off. And they're part of the big health conglomerate, and they don't care about who I am. My farmer is just selling to the other big industries. They're not selling to me anymore. So how do we fight back against that?

[C]

I think we in Phoenix, where this documentary is mostly focused, are seeing a revival. A revival because people are wanting to scratch their own itch and realizing that they weren't eating healthy, that the eggs they were getting were not healthy, the ground beef they were buying wasn't healthy, the milk they were getting from the big grocery store chains, etc. Even that wasn't great. And what you're finding is this local revival, which I think is happening across the country. Why wouldn't it be of communities cropping up to support each other, where you have the food producer, you have the consumer that is now becoming more knowledgeable, saying, gosh, it sure would be nice to get all that stuff. But I don't have time to drive around all these places. And then you have the middleman, the markets, these micro markets that are sourcing from all these great places, Farms from around their community, for people from around their community. Amazon's not involved. Free shipping isn't involved. It's about going to the store. One of the places in particular that really inspired this film was in our neighborhood of Fountain Hill, Arizona. Good living greens. Jill and Jeremy Keefe featured in the documentary started buying all these things for themselves and had their neighbors saying, would you pick some up for me? And so they said, well, why don't we just start a shop? And that was part of what inspired Ashley and I to make this film and then at our business in Scottsdale to open up one of those suites and turn it into Firefly Organic Coffee and Market, because there needs to be tens of thousands of markets around the United States that are sourcing for consumers from local regenerative farms. I think it's possible. It's going to take time, but I do think it's possible.

[A]

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[A]

Need to be healthy every day to.

[D]

Survive it and go through the next chemo round and the next chemo round. So it's important that work was part.

[A]

Of that to keep my mind busy for eight, nine hours. And then I had to go back and face the reality. I had a goal and the goal is to survive.

[C]

Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery. We can make work a better place.

[A]

For healing, learn more and sign the [e-mail] in the film you even talk about, oh, in our coffee we have all of this mold and in our regular coffee we're getting a bunch of junk. I'm like, I would never have even considered that. You know, I am so used to just going to the grocery store and buying what's there. And then I get this panic about how much this costs. I mean, you go to a farmer's, a cheese farmer, he's a goat farmer in the documentary and he makes the point. I know my customers are wealthy because they have to be able to pay me to make the best possible cheese. And I can't do it on a massive A scale. I can't sell to enough people that I can make it really low cost. So what happens? I mean, we honestly then do have a huge health problem for people who can't afford this that are just going to continue to be sicker and sicker. Is it the idea that eventually you can break Big Food? Is that even possible?

[C]

Couple of different ways to handle that. In the film Alex Clark of Culture Apothecary podcast, we featured her and she made a great point about feeling overwhelmed as you learn about how to eat healthier. And one of the things that she says is like step one is going from putting the Doritos down to, you know, ground beef. And if you can't afford organic, it's still better to have non organic ground beef than to eat ultra processed foods. Also, real food is generally less expensive because you're eating less of it. You mentioned early on, I think when you were introducing us, the the popular Lays commercial about no one can eat just one. And no wonder Big Tobacco took over Big food in the 1980s and said to their scientists, hey, we need to sell more food, make them eat more of it. So Wouldn't you know, they figured out how to make the food more addictive and less nutrient dense. So when you really start to look at pound for pound cost, and I think pound for pound benefit of switching to real food, which the new Food Pyramid heavily promotes, what you'll find is that it may not be as expensive as you think it is. I would like to believe that longer term organic is going to become less expensive simply because that's how markets always seemed to work. The original plasma screen TV was $15,000 and now you can buy a 75 inch TV for $700. Right. My hope is that innovation driven by consumer demand will in fact also lower prices. I don't think it's going to happen overnight, but I, I absolutely believe that we can get there. A hundred years ago, this is how everyone ate. Everyone didn't eat organic. It didn't have an organic label. It just was organic. It's like there wasn't such that. There wasn't such a thing as these big giant food conglomerates.

[A]

When you have kids though, it does feel overwhelming. Like as I was watching your documentary, I'm like, I love what these people are doing and I love the fact that there is a shop right there where people can go. And they go, okay, here's all the ingredients I need. But if you don't live near a store like that, it does feel overwhelming. Like, how do I, how do I avoid it? I mean, even last night I was thinking, okay, so I made pork tenderloin with this mustard sauce. And I'm like, do I know what was in the mustard? Like, I made the sauce by my, you know, like from scratch, I think, but not really because I used mustard, you know, like what was in there was there. Who knows, I should look at that and see. But it's like, then I feel like, oh my goodness, I'm so overwhelmed by the amount of, of labels I have to read and the distrust I have to have for the system. And I just, I'm concerned that it's so overwhelming that we can't break it. We have to, we really need support. How do you find that support locally?

[D]

Well, the first thing I like to say about the, the conversation of overwhelm because I feel like it's, it's just so real and everybody feels it. Especially when it's like kind of your first time hearing this message and you start to then do look at, at the labels in your pantry and you're like, I have to purge everything. I have to change. And it's like hold on. That is the natural reaction. But I would recommend start slow. It's okay. Any improvement is a good improvement.

[A]

Make small swaps.

[D]

Now that it's in your head, though, next time you go to the store and you buy a salad dressing or you buy mustard or whatever you're looking for, you're gonna look at the back, and pretty soon it'll just be second nature to you. So I would just say give yourself a break and. And don't stress yourself over having to do, like, this whole overhaul, because stress is also bad.

[A]

So. But it does seem like the system. I mean, you made the point that that big tobacco event, you know, when big tobacco was told, you can't advertise anymore, we're going to try to, like, you know, get this out of the mainstream media, that the smoking is okay. And they really, you know, that really ratcheted back their sales and their ability to market their products. They said, oh, we're going to buy up big food. And for those of us who weren't paying any attention, they were doing things like, okay, how can we make this more addictive? How can we make them buy more? From their standpoint, it was just about selling more product. But from our standpoint, this has changed the really changed American bodies. I just came back from Europe, and I have to tell you, I did not see overweight people. I was in France. There was no one. Literally, I made the comment, look around us. There is not a single person here that looks like an American that.

[D]

And they eat croissants every day.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. I'm like, I have not seen a single thing that I would consider healthy food here. Like, every corner has something that looks delicious on it, you know, and people are stopping at the cafe and they're having fresh bread, and they're having a very real butterfly. I'll say the coffee there is, like, this big. I would say, I'll have a latte. They give you a cup. And I'm like, oh.

[D]

You're like, keep them coming. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, can I like, 17 of these? But also, I think, is this just an American thing? Do we just have this problem in America?

[C]

I. Yes. I. I think it's a lot to do with the way most of the food is grown. We probably don't want to go too deep down the glyphosate hole in this episode. But that's starting to become a very popular topic on X, a trending topic, something I've been aware of for a long time. But glyphosate is Roundup, the weed killer that, you know, most people will think of and think, oh, yeah, I sprayed that. Well, glyphosate is sprayed on crops and wheat especially, to desiccate it, to dry it at harvest time. And that glyphosate likely is contributing in a very bad way to inflammation and other chronic diseases. And glyphosate is banned in most other European countries, countries. So they're getting essentially cleaner food. One comment I will make in. I feel like we have hope for the first time in a very long time with RFK as the head of hhs. When he first came, when he first got the job, you know, spring of 2025, there were some discussions that they held with Big Food, some early meetings, and you may recall that one of the. The first topics they started to address was food dyes. Food dye is another thing that is generally outlawed in most European countries. And the. The topic here, at least the insiders were saying that these food companies were basically saying, bobby, please regulate us. Please make these food dyes go away. Because the problem is if Nabisco can use them. But Kellogg's decides that they're not going to. Kellogg's is now at this disadvantage of, okay, well, Nabisco has a brighter food and it's cheaper because they're using petroleum dyes. So the title of our food breaking Big Food kind of sounds salacious, but all along, many times I have said, our hope is that Big Food will actually see the light, get some good regulations in place and start to actually pivot how they are making food, the ingredients that they're using, and. And really start to improve the entire food system. Because Lord knows there's gonna be a lot of good people working there and they have a lot of infrastructure in place to, you know, utilize. And if they just stop using food dyes, as one, you know, potential example is that if they stop using glyphosate, I think that we in America have a chance to. To rescue Big Food, for Big Food to rescue itself.

[A]

So how did we get so betrayed? Because I feel betrayed by the FDA and not this fda, by the FDA of the past, especially when you say that, that even Big Food has been like, hey, we can't do one thing if everybody doesn't have to do that thing. And so therefore, we're willing to put something we know is unsafe into our products because you're just letting us run amok. We. I thought this was about safety. So who betrayed us?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I mean, is there any institution in the federal government right now that we are, like, feel like we can trust. I mean, I know that there's a lot of people from the Trump administration working hard to fight and save these institutions. I would say that. Yes. Another shout out to a great documentary that came out about a year ago called To Die for D Y E. It's a story of a family whose young son was add. You know, lots of different problems. They heard from another family, you should take out the red dye. Take out the red dyes.

[D]

Take out. Yeah, yeah, stop.

[C]

And within a couple of days, his behavior started to change. And so they made this beautiful documentary about it. And one of the things that they, like, targeted on was so red dye was taken out of cosmetics in, like, the 90s, because it causes cancer when it's on your skin, but somehow when you ingest it, it's fine. It's like the contradictions that have existed for decades because I guess someone was not strong enough in the regulatory bodies to put their foot down until Bobby came along. I guess that's. I guess that's the story. Sadly enough, we. We as Americans have been betrayed. Tudor. I think that is the right word.

[A]

Well, you talked. Somebody, as I was watching your documentary, somebody said they didn't feel well, but they didn't know. They. I can't remember if it was you or who.

[D]

It was probably Landon Flowers, because he was, you know, working out, eating what he thought was.

[A]

And he didn't even know he didn't feel well until he changed. And I thought, gosh, are we just so used to not feeling well? Are we so used to chronic disease that we don't know that we've gotten sick?

[C]

Maybe we are the boiled frogs.

[A]

Yes, yes, exactly. Well, and then the other interesting thing is the idea that chronic disease is reversible because I go back to also big Health, where it's like, oh, you have something. Let me add this medication. Let me add this medication. Let me add this medication. And every medication, it seems like, has a domino effect. If you're on this, then you need this to counteract that. And then you just end up on so many. But then I watch your documentary and I hear, well, chronic disease is reversible. Wait, what?

[C]

Through food?

[A]

Yes. How? I mean, why aren't we aware of this? Why isn't this a discussion at the doctor's office?

[C]

So Callie Means, who's in the first, really, two minutes of the documentary, and then acts as somewhat the narrator throughout. He really inspired us when we saw him speak in the spring of 2024. Spring. Summer of 20 where he had just kind of put the pieces all together about how we got here. Cali was a former lobbyist. He mentioned lobbyists and he saw sort of the backroom deals of Coca Cola. Getting a blessing from the American Diabetes association to say that, like, it's okay for kids to drink Coke. Oh, okay, thanks. American Diabetes association saw the betrayal.

[D]

Yeah. He.

[C]

Well, he's reformed and able to talk about how we got here. And to me, it was just an absolute like Ash. I think we were inspired to amplify the message. And this was before either of us or I think really anybody had heard of Maha, that we started pre production on the film. And Maha has kind of built as this was all happening, we were like, gosh, I guess we caught this wave at just the right time. And thank goodness.

[D]

Well, and keep in mind, the health care system is, I don't know the exact stats these days, but it's like the number one source of revenue for.

[C]

The number one part of our economy.

[D]

Yes. So, you know, sick people help to fuel that economy. I'm just saying.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

So where is the motivation? I mean, they always say follow the money, and unfortunately, a lot of times that turns out to be true. Whether it started as a bad intention or not, or usually they start with good intentions and then you just kind of like comp. Make some compromises as you go along, and then all of a sudden it's just out of control. So I think the biggest message for Americans is you are in charge of your health. You have to make better choices for yourself and educate yourself for you and your family so that then your kids know what to do and they know what to do with their kids. That's. We have to take ownership and it.

[C]

Starts with the food. That's really what Cali. That's where I was going with the talk about Cali is it starts with the food, not with pills.

[A]

Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tudor Dixon podcast.

[E]

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[D]

When you're diagnosed with cancer you crave a semblance of normalcy, control. And so work allowed me to be me. So I think it's really important that companies stay flexible. Cancer in a diagnosis can be all consuming, but it doesn't have to be.

[C]

Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery. We can make work a better place.

[A]

For healing, learn more and sign the pledge. At workingwithcancerpledge.com you have someone who makes the point that if you're asked would you give up your life for someone you love? And she talks about her nephew, you know, like, yeah, I would die for my nephew, of course, but will you live healthy for your nephew? And she goes, man, that was a way bigger choice. And it is a way bigger choice. But as I'm watching what you guys are doing and so many people, what I loved about the documentary was that you were showing so many people were starting this. This is a bigger movement than we think. I live in a small town, we have a little market that just started and I they were in my head the whole time like, oh, I gotta go to CC's market and look at it through a different lens now because now I've seen what they're going through. But I'm as, I'm watching this and I was watching even your farmer who was talking about, you know, this is expensive. I'm thinking to myself how in a small town where we don't have a ton of businesses and people aren't extremely wealthy, you know, we're not in a big metropolis where people are going to, I mean, we don't have a Whole Foods or anything like that where people are just used to spending that kind of money on food. How do you A, start a market like this and, and B, do you have to be like personally wealthy? Is it just, is it just a hobby that you're like, oh, I'm just going to bring food together for people to buy or do you make money doing this? Because to me I'm like, how do they make money doing this?

[D]

This?

[C]

Well, we launched Firefly Organic Coffee and Market in May of 2025. We did lose money for about the first eight months, just like any new business, trying to get the word out to bring more customers in. But we actually finally had in January our first month of profitability. Not much, but a little bit. And, and I would say just like, like any business, like, profit motive is not greed, profit motive is sustainability is sustainability. And it's, it's like I'm trying to, Ashley and I are trying to find products that we want to use at our own house and we're getting, we're sort of sending that signal out to others in the Scottsdale, Fountain Hills, Phoenix area of like, hey, we're finding and sourcing these, these products that we're using ourselves. If you want some, come and get it.

[D]

Yeah, it's items you can't find at the regular grocery store or the raw milk, some fed beef, some farm fresh eggs that haven't been fed, you know, soy and corn and all the junk. But you know, what's happened has been really beautiful is we've seen a community just bloom of people that have found out what we're doing, that are also very passionate about this and that really want to support it it and they feel seen and understood. So it's like all of a sudden this amazing group of people that like, it's spreading by word of mouth and there are enough people that care that can like help to get it going. And then hopefully more and more shops like this pop up and like Patrick was talking about is the supply and demand thing. So if you can support with your Dollar, that is the best thing you can do. And then hopefully we can get prices down on some of these, these items. You know, as we move along in.

[C]

This process, I would say if you are interested in starting a market, step one is start looking at what kind of farmers you could potentially source from, because those producers are almost always looking for more customers. And so if you can rent a little space somewhere in your city, be the person that goes to bring all those things together. This is kind of the Jill and Jeremy. Jeremy Keefe, good living greens model. You are picking up stuff for your neighbors. Just the convenience of having it all in one place I think deserves a markup. The convenience is always, almost always a great way of innovating. And then you, you know, kind of pass out flyers, tell your friends at church, you know, go to the networking meetings, let people know that the, the market is now open. And so maybe you have to drive 100 miles to go get fresh eggs. Well, you're doing that on behalf of your whole community. Like when you go to pick that up, if you have to do that for, for greens or, you know, something like that. But being a purveyor is like essentially being a curator. That's step one. You know, can you curate these items?

[A]

How long can you turn over your product? I mean, I don't know anything about how long these eggs last or raw milk. Raw milk seems like in my mind, I'm like, well, you'd better drink it that day. I don't know anything about it, you know.

[D]

Well, it's kind of funny. We, when we first opened the shop, we ordered raw milk. I mean, we get everything delivered, so that's nice. We don't have to drive anywhere. But we ordered 15/2 gallons of raw milk and we were like, I don't know how many people are going to buy this. You know, we're just opening. We had no idea what to expect. We didn't quite sell through them the first couple of weeks. And then today, eight months in, we're ordering about 95, I think, this coming week, and we sell out within five days.

[C]

So step one, find purveyors. Step two, buy some refrigerators and some freezers and eggs.

[D]

Actually lasts quite a while, but we sell through those very quickly as well. So once the, the word of mouth starts going, people are like, all right, I'm going there.

[A]

Interesting. So is there a place people can go to? Kind of. I mean, I know that your journey is in the documentary, but do you have any place where people can go just to get the advice because you. You're doing something so successful where you are. But I know you're right about the fact that people want all across the country.

[C]

We haven't really put together a blueprint, so to speak. And I'm not sure that we. I don't know, actually. Just send. Send me an email if you're really interested. I will type up the details and then once someone. One person asks me, then I'll publish it. So, Patrick Jigsaw health.com you can send me an email.

[D]

I mean, or send an email to firefly.coffee shop. We're happy to talk to anyone and share anything that we've learned. We want to see more people doing this. So we are absolutely happy to share our time and anything that we've learned.

[A]

So they have to watch the documentary so they understand how amazing this is. So tell them, tell our audience where they can see it. It's called Breaking Big Food and it has. I mean, it really takes you on this journey. So you'll see a big portion of it in the documentary.

[C]

Yeah. And it's available right now on Apple TV and Amazon Prime Video.

[A]

Thank you so much, Patrick and Ashley Sullivan. You guys are doing amazing work. Thank you for being on today.

[D]

Thank you for having us. It was such a pleasure.

[C]

Thanks, tutor.

[A]

Take care. Thank you. And thank you all for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast. As always, for this episode and others, you can go to tutordixonpodcast.com, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and you can watch the whole video on Rumble or YouTube uterdixon. But make sure you join us and have a blessed day.

[C]

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